Can Manu be a franchise player? [Archive]

peskypesky

12-05-2007, 11:34 PM

peskypesky

12-05-2007, 11:35 PM

oh yeah he can also draw charges.

Matches Malone

12-05-2007, 11:36 PM

He was a franchise player in Italy, he is the Argentinean NT franchise player (if that can be said), but he plays alongside TD, and the only franchise player in SA is TD.
If you take Manu to other team, yeah...no sweat. The problem is that in any other team they will put him to play 40 mins per night, and that will kill his performance.
If you would have asked the question five years ago...different story. But now, he is happy breaking his havoc circus only for minus 30 minutes, or longer of TD or TP are out for a couple of games.
He nevertheless deserves to be regarded as a SPURS franchise player for nights like tonight. That was a pure demostration of HEART and WINNING WILL.

ManuAddicted

12-05-2007, 11:37 PM

We already know that... Any doubt?

gospursgooo

12-05-2007, 11:38 PM

Manu is the main reason why I love watching the Spurs.

MmP

12-05-2007, 11:45 PM

We already know that... Any doubt?
Well, I've heard many times comments like "he can't run a team" or "be a franchise player", that's why I asked.

Medvedenko

12-05-2007, 11:58 PM

jman3000

12-06-2007, 12:01 AM

i dont think his body could handle the minute load that would entail. Saying he's a spark off the bench is an understatment... he's more like a flamethrower.

the role he fills now is perfect for him. he's the trump card that can absolutely go ape shit on you at any point of the game, and is the yang to tim's yin. while duncan gives you steady production at a pretty even keel... manu gives you games where he goes absolutely bonkers and games where he is ice cold.

hanto03

12-06-2007, 12:03 AM

you are really jealous, aren't you? this game has elevated the SPURS confidence up to the ozone layer.

Russ

12-06-2007, 12:04 AM

Can George Washington become President? I think the Potomac boy shows potential.

BonnerDynasty

12-06-2007, 12:05 AM

He also did with scrubs..Finley didn't get hot until the 4th quarter..the rest of the team was garbage other than Parker

Bullshit. More like Ginobili and parker were relying on penetration to the lane 80% of the time. Other Spurs hit some big shots to keep the lead.

Hemotivo

12-06-2007, 12:05 AM

manu gives you games where he goes absolutely bonkers and games where he is ice cold.
in this season?

MaNuMaNiAc

12-06-2007, 12:06 AM

Good player...but a bench player isn't really considered a franchise player. 1 good game...try that for 82 when you're the main option and defensive assignment. Like I said, he's my favourite spur....but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
look, I agree that calling Manu a potential franchise player is a lot, but calling him a bench player is misleading... specially the way you use the term. Manu is more than just a bench player! you know it, I know it and today, he knew it too.

jman3000

12-06-2007, 12:08 AM

in this season?
as a whole. while this season he's been playing exceptional... i have no doubt that he'll incur some minor injury at some point in the season and play with it, causing him to play like complete shit.

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

12-06-2007, 12:12 AM

as a whole. while this season he's been playing exceptional... i have no doubt that he'll incur some minor injury at some point in the season and play with it, causing him to play like complete shit.
Didn't have a very minor minor injury today?

thekingrobert

12-06-2007, 12:13 AM

for the people saying he is old go look what Jordan did at the same age and no im not comparing the two but he has loads of years left in him for the simple fact that he can shoot and dribble, think ron harper or a same cassel type role in his mid to late 30's

SpurOutofTownFan

12-06-2007, 12:14 AM

In my opinion Manu is a franchise player but it didn't happen tonight. He's been for a long time now - I would say since 05. He's a main guy in SA as I understand and I'm sure the spurs organization cashes a lot of money because he is just there. Try trading him out to another place and you will have riots in the streets. No question he is right there; although not to the level Tim is.

Ronaldo McDonald

12-06-2007, 12:16 AM

depends on what ur definition of a franchise player is...

is he on the level of Kobe Bryant, T-Mac, Garnett, TD, and Lebron? no

is he on the level Allen Iverson, Carmello Anthony, Chris Bosh, Vince Carter to name a few? ya (he's just not able to show it because of the style of offense we run).

T Park

12-06-2007, 12:16 AM

On a part time basis yes.

Not for 82 games, 30 some odd minutes a night.

SpurOutofTownFan

12-06-2007, 12:18 AM

I'm reading some of the opinions in this thread. We also need to consider what being a "franchise player" means. Is that just how much you score or how many double doubles you have? I don't think so. Look at AI for example, played lots of year in Philly, considered their go to guy, franchise, face, etc - he never took them to a ring. He was indeed their face - there are other examples.

dbreiden83080

12-06-2007, 12:19 AM

He's a little old to be a franchise player, but between him and Parker, I'd take Manu. Cause he's got the complete game. He can shoot, he can slash, he can dunk, he can get free throws, he can defend, he can steal and he can pass the ball. I have no doubt that if he were the first option on any team, he'd average 25+ pts a game.

Yep Tony is getting all the pub these days because of his finals MVP (against a bad team) but he still won it and his hot start but Manu no doubt is the 2nd best player on the Spurs. He is way more complete a player than Tony.

jman3000

12-06-2007, 12:20 AM

Didn't have a very minor minor injury today?

i mean something that is going to nag at him and actually affect his running ability and ability to shoot... like something with his legs.

jman3000

12-06-2007, 12:20 AM

i'd go gay for him though.

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

12-06-2007, 12:21 AM

Manu is a pretty good impact player. He could be like how Nash was for Dallas, but I don't know how you'd build a team around Manu in the same manner. Copy the Argentinian team?

Medvedenko

12-06-2007, 12:22 AM

Yeah I'm an idiot for calling a bench player a bench player.....I didn't say anything about him starting anywhere else and hells yeah I would love to have him on my team. We could give you Odom and I'll play Kobe at the 3 and Manu at the 2. Fo sizzle.

SequSpur

12-06-2007, 12:22 AM

Manu Ginobili is okay.

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

12-06-2007, 12:23 AM

i mean something that is going to nag at him and actually affect his running ability and ability to shoot... like something with his legs.
ok, I see what you mean.

This season he's been pretty consistent though and a lot has a lot to do with his improved shooting. I think it could be done, if he continued to improve his stepback jumpshot.

He got beat up a lot more tonight than usual from taking it to the hole, i noticed.

Hemotivo

12-06-2007, 12:24 AM

Manu Ginobili is okay.

SpurOutofTownFan

12-06-2007, 12:27 AM

Manu Ginobili is okay.

Haha

SequSpur

12-06-2007, 12:27 AM

Speaking of Manu, I need a picture of that dunk tomorrow morning... One of our vendors was at the game tonight wearing a Mav jersey... I need to put a little something in his paperwork tomorrow. :D

dbreiden83080

12-06-2007, 12:27 AM

Manu Ginobili is okay.

You aren't Still watching games with your eyes closed, are you???

timvp

12-06-2007, 12:31 AM

Hemotivo

12-06-2007, 12:33 AM

http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=u3HZZdYs1c4

dbreiden83080

12-06-2007, 12:37 AM

I don't think Manu could play 40 minutes per game and be the go-to player every time up the court for an entire season. But I also don't think there are many players playing as well as he is right now. Per minute, he's playing as well or better than anyone.

There are so many guys i take Manu over in the NBA. Right off the bat on the CELTS big 3 i take him over Pierce and Allen every day of the week and twice on Sunday!!!

2centsworth

12-06-2007, 12:46 AM

Manu can be any teams Franchise Player in the 4th quarter or in any big game. He's the Spurs closer.

ManuAddicted

12-06-2007, 12:52 AM

He did it in Italy (1 Euroleague, 2 Italian Cups, MVP twice), he did it for Argentina (Olympic Medal, Olympics MVP).

Why not in the NBA?

SA210

12-06-2007, 12:58 AM

Can Manu be a franchise player?
Yes

ATXSPUR

12-06-2007, 01:00 AM

Good player...but a bench player isn't really considered a franchise player. 1 good game...try that for 82 when you're the main option and defensive assignment. Like I said, he's my favourite spur....but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

bench play??? yea....right...uh huh...yup. I had no idea bench players have games like Manu did tonight.

MI21

12-06-2007, 01:05 AM

Not for a whole season, no.

But, if I'm choosing a player who I want to help me win a single game that is important, there isn't to many players out there I pick before Manu.

Medvedenko

12-06-2007, 01:17 AM

bench play??? yea....right...uh huh...yup. I had no idea bench players have games like Manu did tonight.

See Barbosa.....

2centsworth

12-06-2007, 01:18 AM

See Barbosa.....
you're a joke, get lost.

ManuAddicted

12-06-2007, 01:33 AM

See Barbosa.....

Who???????

whottt

12-06-2007, 04:51 AM

He won't do it for a full playoff series, much less an entire regular season...

But one for game? For one game he can be the best player in the World...

Example 1: The first meeting with the Lakers in 03-04....it was Manu VS Kobe, Shaq, Payton and Malone...and Manu gave them all they could handle.

Example 2: The 2004 Olympics. Manu VS LeBron, Duncan, Amare, Carmelo, Marion, Boozer etc. Manu won.

It's not just about points...he just supercharges everyone on his team and make them better. It's just the way he plays...he just flat out opens a can of whupsass some games. And aint no one going to close it either...and if you try, he gets better.

For one game...don't bet against Manu...not even if he's playing the Dream Team.

WalterBenitez

12-06-2007, 05:51 AM

i'd go gay for him though.

Nothing is compared to conviction :rolleyes

manubili

12-06-2007, 06:41 AM

Yes he could be. But I'm gald he isn't. He wouldn't have three rings on his hands right now. And that's all he cares about.

ArgSpursFan.

12-06-2007, 08:12 AM

He already is a franchise player. For the Argentinian NT.
With the spurs He just does what Pop tells him to do.like starting from the bench,or play 25 to 28 mpg.
Last night He was on a special mission,and He accumplished it.
I guess He is more like a 4x4 tham a franchise player.

waly.mg

12-06-2007, 09:13 AM

What is a franchise?

Joe Johnson is the Hawks franchise player isn't it?

But in the Suns was the 4th behind Nash, amare and Marion

ArgSpursFan.

12-06-2007, 09:16 AM

What is a franchise?

Joe Johnson is the Hawks franchise player isn't it?

But in the Suns was the 4th behind Nash, amare and Marion
I agree, They seem to call Franchise player,to the tickets seller and best man in the team.
Obviusly Joe Johnson could not be a franchise player in a title contender type of team.

diego

12-06-2007, 09:25 AM

by definition, at least 50% of franchise players are statistical losers, and another 45% are losers in that they cant lead their teams to the finals. not everyone can be a winner, even if they have equal talent

Kent_in_Atlanta

12-06-2007, 09:59 AM

Good player...but a bench player isn't really considered a franchise player. 1 good game...try that for 82 when you're the main option and defensive assignment. Like I said, he's my favourite spur....but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I was just reading the first page and haven't gotten to any of the more recent posts, so I'm sure someone has already responded to your asinine comment Medved, but...

Manu is not a bench player. He is a superstar who is team-oriented enough to accept not being the in the starting lineup. With Tim and Tony in the starting lineup, there's already plenty of scoring punch out of the gate. They need Manu in there when Tim's on the bench for reasons that were made obvious last night.

If you want to know who the best players on a team are, don't look at the starting lineup. Look at who's on the floor in the 4th quarter. When the game is on the line, the ball is always in Manu's hands.

Ginobili would absolutely, without a doubt, have a 25 ppg average if either Tim Duncan or Tony Parker were not on this team. I think the same could probably be said for Tim and Tony. These guys share the ball and the spotlight.

Manu Ginobili is one of the top-10 players in the league. No question about it. He won't get the recognition because he has to share the spotlight and can't maximize his stats as great players on poor or mediocre teams are able to. But then again... he seems perfectly content with trading personal glory for championships.

Kent_in_Atlanta

12-06-2007, 10:05 AM

Does anyone keep a stat on the number of fouls a player draws from the opposing team??

I have to imagine that Ginobili would be among the league leaders.

ArgSpursFan.

12-06-2007, 10:10 AM

Does anyone keep a stat on the number of fouls a player draws from the opposing team??

I have to imagine that Ginobili would be among the league leaders.

I also wonder what his PER looks like after last night's game.
I bet it's just as good as Lebron's or better.

ancestron

12-06-2007, 12:33 PM

The Spurs have 3 franchise players as far as I'm concerned.

bdictjames

12-06-2007, 12:33 PM

The Spurs have 3 franchise players as far as I'm concerned.
Best Quote of the Day!!! :toast

ancestron

12-06-2007, 12:35 PM

Best Quote of the Day!!! :toast
:toast

Medvedenko

12-06-2007, 12:41 PM

Manu a top 10 player in the L.....geez.....I'll be back here on this board again when Manu has an off night....

ancestron

12-06-2007, 12:48 PM

Why dont you come back when the Lakers get past the first round of the playoffs again.

SpurOutofTownFan

12-06-2007, 01:05 PM

Why dont you come back when the Lakers get past the first round of the playoffs again.

Indeed, about in 20 years from now.

howbouthemspurs

12-06-2007, 01:34 PM

Saying manu isnt a franchise player is like saying Hillary Clinton doesnt have a penis!... I mean common! it must be donkey size!

TheAuthority

12-06-2007, 01:37 PM

He's a very good player, but not a franchise player. He's in an ideal situation now. Whatever moron says he's a bench player to somehow discredit the things he does, basically has nothing else to knock him on. He is a complete player.

ehz33satx

12-06-2007, 01:57 PM

What other team in the NBA has Manu Ginobili, Robert Horry, Michael Finley, Brent Barry, Fabricio Oberto all coming off the bench. NO OTHER TEAM!
Thats a bench that could be a starting line-up in the NBA. All of them studs!

ManuAddicted

12-06-2007, 07:20 PM

Manu won a championship in almost every team he played. As a franchise player, starter, 6th man, in almost every role he did it.

Only a few did the same.

Enough said.

bdubya

12-06-2007, 07:33 PM

He probably could. But he'd still need a ton of quality help for it to be a championship-contending team.

DR WU

12-06-2007, 07:44 PM

How many other sixth-man has his own bobble head?

bdubya

12-06-2007, 07:54 PM

How many other sixth-man has his own bobble head?

I'm guessing most of them.

Sense

12-06-2007, 08:17 PM

Sense

12-06-2007, 08:20 PM

Manu a top 10 player in the L.....geez.....I'll be back here on this board again when Manu has an off night....

Manu isn't our franchise player.... and hes not our best player... there's 3 stars in this team... it's obvious he's not gonna throw 30 a night like ur lovely Kobe.... it's impossible...

He has the potential to do 30 a game... and we as spurs fans know this... he can lead a team...

So IMHO he can be a franchise player... he just has to be in the right team for that to happen

Cherry

12-06-2007, 08:31 PM

Manu a top 10 player in the L.....geez.....I'll be back here on this board again when Manu has an off night....

yeah, you pick a bad day to talk about this :lol

Sense

12-08-2007, 12:35 AM

Manu a top 10 player in the L.....geez.....I'll be back here on this board again when Manu has an off night....

you're not coming today or tomorrow right?

ManuTim_best of Fwiendz

12-08-2007, 12:40 AM

Manu really ran the whole team these last two games, reminded me of his Olympics leadership. His role usually is as an energizer. But he carries that maturity, when he's asked to run the team in place of Duncan.

Can't knee jerk too much, but 37 points back to back, because the team really needs them, is impressive for any high caliber player. So I think these games are a good indicator of what Manu's capable of as a leader.

We really have a luxury of players. Everyone should be grateful for our three.

SpurOutofTownFan

12-08-2007, 12:41 AM

This thread really gives me a headache

TDMVPDPOY

12-08-2007, 12:48 AM

mango tree

Demo Dick Marcinko

12-08-2007, 01:00 AM

Manu a top 10 player in the L.....geez.....I'll be back here on this board again when Manu has an off night....

Man, no one is saying that Manu is all world, .....well wait a minute he did get MVP when Argentina won the gold medal in the Olympics which is an all-world competition, so yeah I'd say he's All World. And let me remind you that arguably he should have won finals MVP in '05. Manu's stats are limited because Pop purposely limits his minutes. Check out his per 48 minute stats. At the top. Does that surprise you. It shouldn't. Maybe his age slants your perception. Could it be that he comes off the bench as a 6th man? As a previous poster noted, check out who's always on the court in the 4th quarter with the game on the line.

Med, I'm surprised I've read alot of your previous posts and you seem pretty level headed, in touch and fairly knowledgeable. I'm surprised by all the bitterness and utter stupidity on this topic. Log off and try it again tomorrow. Everythings gonna be alright.