would you trade manu for kobe straight up

[inconvertible]

:lol

[ancestron]

hellfuckingno

[Medvedenko]

cue the homerism....

[ancestron]

its a freakin Spurs board, what do you expect?
Cue the Kobe worshippers...

[travis2]

even if it WERE possible...and it's not (you need learn about salary cap issues vis-a-vis trades)...I wouldn't, mainly because of the salary hit involved (not enough return for the investment).

[1Parker1]

No, and not because I think Manu is a better player than Kobe...that'd be homeristic. But because right now the Spurs have the best Big 3 in the NBA...and have had it for the last 4 or so seasons. Parker, Duncan, and Ginobili compliment eachother's games a lot. Spurs don't have a problem scoring, don't need additional leadership, or even another go-to guy. They need a complementary player to to Parker and Duncan and an X Factor who can come off the bench and be the energy guy when needed or who can do stuff when the offense and defense become stagnant.

[Holt's Cat]

I wouldn't trade for Kobe because he's already managed to ruin one championship program.

Manu is as much a part of Spurs Basketball as any player has ever been. The last thing this team needs is a prima donna nutcase with a penchant for ass raping the help at mountain resorts.

[TheAuthority]

If they had the same contract, you'd be a fool not to.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Trade Tony for Kobe

/duck
/jk

[ynh]

You guys are nuts if you wouldn't trade Manu for Kobe.. let me guess you wouldn't trade Manu for Bron either.. cause Manu is a better fit cause he lives in San Antonio

[PM5K]

I honestly wouldn't, why would I mess up what we've got going?

You think Kobe is going to sit on the bench so Barry or Finley can start because they play better as starters and the energy we get from Kobe off the bench helps the team incredibly...

Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it..

[ynh]

Ah no numbskull you start Kobe.. He's the best player in the nba.

[ynh]

Do you really think Pop is going to sit there and say " Well.. yea Kobe is at the least a top 3 player in the league.. but I just can't do the deal cause Finely and Barry need to start"?

[ancestron]

Manu is a better player than Kobe. Maybe not as a scorer, but in almost every other aspect of the game. Exactly wtf has Kobe Bryant done in the last 5 years anyway.

[Holt's Cat]

How long would it be until Bryant threatened to opt out and leave if the Spurs didn't move Duncan?

[MajicMan]

Manu is a better player than Kobe. Maybe not as a scorer, but in almost every other aspect of the game. Exactly wtf has Kobe Bryant done in the last 5 years anyway.
Better player? Are you fucken retarded? I'm not the biggest Kobe fan either but I have to say that's just stupid homerism.

[ynh]

Have you bothered to ever take a look at the roster he's worked with the last couple of years? But to answer your question. He's lost in the conf finals, lost in the finals, and taken one of the worst rosters to the playoffs twice in the toughest division in the league.

And if you think Manu is a better player then Kobe.. your either been drinking way too much Kool-aid or you don't watch any basketball other the the spurs and have a pretty pathetic understanding of the game.

[ynh]

This just in, Spur fans also won't trade Manu for Dwight Howard cause Fransisco Ellison plays better when he starts.

[Cry Havoc]

You guys are nuts if you wouldn't trade Manu for Kobe.. let me guess you wouldn't trade Manu for Bron either

One is a teammate, the other is a cancer. Please note the difference.

[ynh]

Yes.. cause Kobe was such a terrible person that when he had another star to play with he won 3 championships. Got cha.

[Cry Havoc]

Yes.. cause Kobe was such a terrible person that when he had another star to play with he won 3 championships. Got cha.

You mean Shaq? One of the most dominant players in NBA history? The very same person that Kobe completely ran out of town so he could be "the man"?

Actually it's quite well documented what a prick Kobe was back then. Need we bring up the hundreds of disputes, the incredible lack of chemistry that wracked the team, the Colorado situation, the number of teammates that have called Kobe out for being impossible to get along with, the recent debacle where he called one of his only young talented players trash, the complete disintegration of a team with 4 HOFs on it, the numerous altercations on the court?

Or shall we just go with Phil Jackson, a HOFer with 9 rings, who called Kobe "uncoachable"?

Gee, I dunno, what do you think? Oh. Right. My mistake. He's a model citizen. :santahat

[ancestron]

Manu is a better player.

[MajicMan]

You mean Shaq? One of the most dominant players in NBA history? The very same person that Kobe completely ran out of town so he could be "the man"?

Actually it's quite well documented what a prick Kobe was back then. Need we bring up the hundreds of disputes, the incredible lack of chemistry that wracked the team, the Colorado situation, the number of teammates that have called Kobe out for being impossible to get along with, the recent debacle where he called one of his only young talented players trash, the complete disintegration of a team with 4 HOFs on it, the numerous altercations on the court?

Or shall we just go with Phil Jackson, a HOFer with 9 rings, who called Kobe "uncoachable"?

Gee, I dunno, what do you think? Oh. Right. My mistake. He's a model citizen. :santahat
Dumb, trading Manu for Kobe would make the Spurs a dominant team. Not just good enough to win a Championship and every other year champs. Shaq/Kobe Lakers won 3 straight. How many times have Spurs repeated? 0

[SAGambler]

Let me know when Kobe gets a heart like Manu has. Then maybe we can talk.

[SAGambler]

Dumb, trading Manu for Kobe would make the Spurs a dominant team. Not just good enough to win a Championship and every other year champs. Shaq/Kobe Lakers won 3 straight. How many times have Spurs repeated? 0

And how many rings has Kobe won since Shaq left? Can you say "ZERO"?

And what makes you think Kobe wouldn't ruin what the Spurs have? Would he be willing to take the 6th man role? I doubt it.

[Man In Black]

taken one of the worst rosters to the playoffs twice in the toughest division in the league.

The Pacific Division isn't the group of death YOU make it out to be. Please...have you seen the Southwest?


Dumb, trading Manu for Kobe would make the Spurs a dominant team.
Aren't the Spurs already the most dominant team right now? Do you even understand the concept of being dominant? Did the NBA GM's pick your team as the one that was most likely to win a title this year?

Lakerfan just wishes that the Lakers could get what the Spurs have right now. I used to hear that TMac sucked because he couldn't get his team past the 1st round and that Kobe would never let his team lose in round 1...SO HOW many times has a Kobe-led team made it past Round 1? ZERO

[MajicMan]

The Pacific Division isn't the group of death YOU make it out to be. Please...have you seen the Southwest?


Aren't the Spurs already the most dominant team right now? Do you even understand the concept of being dominant? Did the NBA GM's pick your team as the one that was most likely to win a title this year?

Lakerfan just wishes that the Lakers could get what the Spurs have right now. I used to hear that TMac sucked because he couldn't get his team past the 1st round and that Kobe would never let his team lose in round 1...SO HOW many times has a Kobe-led team made it past Round 1? ZERO
Spurs are dominant? Since when? Dominant teams should be able to win back to back Championships. OK, 1 and out Spurs. That really shows dominance.

[phxspurfan]

...taken one of the worst rosters to the playoffs twice in the toughest division in the league


LOL @ that division being the toughest in the league

[Man In Black]

Bullshit and you know it occurs in cycles right Manic Man?
I guess you're cool with your 3peat flameout and go away in the 1st round team led by ALL-World Kobe Mean Cryant. How about best team in Pro Sports the last 10 years? How about Duncan is the only player other than Russell to win championships with completely different rosters from his first title to his most recent.
Did you know that from 1969-1986 there was not 1 repeat? Don't tell me the team sucked in that era. Winners from those seasons include Bird's Celts, Wilt's Lakers, Doc's Sixers among others. So recognize greatness, you may not like it, ESPN will continue to tell you to not like it, but I don't have to be a sheep and listen to their drivel. It's all about the Spurs, they have what you want. A winning title-contending team...Deal with it.

[ynh]

I ment confernce.. ok you guys got a laugh.. but trust me it's nothing compared to the laugh of people in here thinking Manu is on Bron and Kobe's level and you wouldn't trade for kobe because FINELY AND BARRY PLAY BETTER STARTING.

[ynh]

And how many rings has Kobe won since Shaq left? Can you say "ZERO"?

And what makes you think Kobe wouldn't ruin what the Spurs have? Would he be willing to take the 6th man role? I doubt it.

First of all Kobe doesn't have Duncan or parker on his team.. so the first statment is freakin stupid as hell.

The second statement is purely speculation on your part.

And the last is fucking idiotic.. YOU WOULDN'T PLAY HIM AS THE 6TH MAN.. only a damn moron would.

[ynh]

Seriously this debate is as stupid as the ones I see my pistons fans have sometimes where they say they wouldn't trade Billups for Nash because Nash doesn't fit our style. He's the better freakin player.. if you have a chance to get one you do then you adjust.

[Man In Black]

No what it is is that UNLESS YOU FEEL LIKE CHANGING YOUR DYNAMIC, the Spurs would be foolish to go after Kobe. If you're already the best and you have the best player already, then why do you need the 2nd best when your other parts compensate and at times, even outperform him?

[ynh]

No what it is is that UNLESS YOU FEEL LIKE CHANGING YOUR DYNAMIC, the Spurs would be foolish to go after Kobe. If you're already the best and you have the best player already, then why do you need the 2nd best when your other parts compensate and at times, even outperform him?

I hope when you say you have the best player you mean fit and not actually the best player. And here's something that's news to you I guess.. your not guarenteed the best.. hell you don't even have the best record in the league.. so you saying your the best isn't based on anything other then previous years results. So.. are you the best? Nope.. as of right now the best team is the Celtics.. do you have room to impove? YEP.. Once again just like piston fans you fear change.. cause you figure whats always worked is going to continue to always work.

Ok say Tim had blew his knee out a couple nights ago and he's done for the year.. I'm sure your chances of winning would be a bit higher if you had Kobe and Parker then if you had Manu and Parker. Even if you had to make him a 6th man CAUSE FINELY AND BARRY PLAY BETTER STARTING.

It's stupid.. Kobe is the most dynamic offensive player in the league.. also one of if not the top defensive guard in the league. And yet you wouldn't trade Manu for Kobe, who is a much better player, because you basically fear changing something even if that something would make your team a dynasty (and thats skipping the whole "are the spurs or are they not a dynasty" debate)... oh and you have a few idiots in here that wouldn't do it because they'd want to have kobe coming off the bench CAUSE FINELY AND BARRY PLAY BETTER STARTING.

[SouthernFried]

I wouldn't trade for Kobe...even tho I know he's the best player in the league.

Would Kobe come off the bench...even if asked to?

That's the difference between Kobe and Manu. Kobe is about Kobe...Manu is about doing whatever is needed for the "TEAM".

Spurs need a Manu, more than a Kobe. And I would bet a lot of teams feel the same way.

You can keep Kobe

Good luck man.

[ynh]

Again why would you even ask him to. Crap in that case I wouldn't trade Antonio McDyce for Yao Ming cause I know Dice would accept coming off the bench better then Yao.

[Rummpd]

ynh - Kobe best player in NBA my @#$ - That is Tim Duncan, first round playoff losers without Shaq like Kobe do not even merit consideration in that arguement. Put Duncan on Lakers instead of Kobe and LAL suddenly a true title threat - he unlike Kobe makes players better and would have Odom and others playing at a whole nother level.

By the way how it old Flip doing coaching the Pistonwannabees these days?

[gospursgooo]

Who is Kobe?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

cue the homerism....

:rolleyes

No, I wouldn't, because you simply don't mess with chemistry like our team has. See, there are non-homer reasons for not doing that trade.

Sure, Kobe is the "better player", but how would he fit into the Spurs? Not so well. He needs shots and limelight, and we have a TEAM over here. And I would put Manu's ability to get it done in the clutch up there with Kobe's.

So no, no trade, and no homer.

[ArgSpursFan.]

If you look at the numbers P/48 mins they're about the same.
Sure,Kobe is the better player,but I´d reather have a humble superstar tham a spoiled whining bitch in my team.

[SouthernFried]

Again why would you even ask him to. Crap in that case I wouldn't trade Antonio McDyce for Yao Ming cause I know Dice would accept coming off the bench better then Yao.

We prolly would never ask Kobe to come off the bench. The point is, he wouldn't even if we did. If you don't understand the point that makes...you dont understand the Spurs.

And your inference that I would choose other players "just because" they would come off the bench is just a red herring.

I would come off the bench...but you can't compare me to Manu or Kobe. Willingness to do whatever is needed to be done, for the "team"....isn't that same thing as taking much lesser players simply because of that attribute.

You find the best players you can...WITH that attitude, and that's what makes a team like the SPURS.

That's why KOBE is simply not a better choice than MANU for the Spurs.

Mebbe in 3-5 yrs when MANU retires...we can talk again? :)

[Shaolin-Style]

No.

Simply because Manu knows his teammates on the Spurs. He works well with them and they work well with him.

Kobe would have to learn our style and a whole new way to play that would probably defer to Duncan and TP more than he would fancy.

As tempting as it is it just wouldn't be good for team chemistry.

[Cry Havoc]

hell you don't even have the best record in the league..

OH NOES! WE'RE ONLY 16-3! ZOMG WE R SUCH NOOBS. How are your Pistons doing? What? And they're not making any trades? But you suck! You aren't even on pace for 68+ wins!


Again why would you even ask him to. Crap in that case I wouldn't trade Antonio McDyce for Yao Ming cause I know Dice would accept coming off the bench better then Yao.

He's making a point, you incompetent fool. Kobe is a me-first player. He DESTROYS team chemistry. My god, can it be that difficult to get through your head?

We aren't saying that Kobe would come off the bench. We are stating that, if asked, would he? No. Why?

BECAUSE HES A SELFISH FUCKING PLAYER.

Can you understand it now that I've put it in caps?

Might I also add that you should talk to the Yankees about having all the best players and winning titles. It's been a while for them despite having a salary of over $300,000,000 per year.

What the hell would you want to change about a team that just walked through the playoffs last year? Why would you want to bring in a trouble-maker with a serious alpha-male ego who needs 25 touches a night to be happy?

Oh. That's right. Because it would make the Spurs the best "on paper".

Get your head out of the fantasy league and actually watch some basketball for a change. No one said ANYTHING about Kobe's ability in this thread. It's obvious that Kobe is superior skill-wise to Manu. Kobe is also superior bitch-wise to Ginobili as well. Of course, god forbid the Spurs want something like camaraderie or teamwork on their side, so long as they watch one player shoot 40+ shots to make a run at Wilt's 100 point game.

How many repeats have your Pistons had lately?

Wow, really? But you've got like 4 all-stars on your team! You should be able to walk over everyone!

:rolleyes

:lol

[ynh]

ynh - Kobe best player in NBA my @#$ - That is Tim Duncan, first round playoff losers without Shaq like Kobe do not even merit consideration in that arguement. Put Duncan on Lakers instead of Kobe and LAL suddenly a true title threat - he unlike Kobe makes players better and would have Odom and others playing at a whole nother level.

By the way how it old Flip doing coaching the Pistonwannabees these days?

Again another person that is basing their side of an arguement on pure speculation. You have nothing more to base your idea that Duncan would put the lakers as a true title threat if switched with Kobe then blind hate for Kobe and a homeristic view of Duncan. It has as much credibility as me saying if you subtract Kobe for Duncan you guys would actually repeat for once.

Is Kobe the best playing in the NBA? Right now.. I would Have Lebron, Kobe, Dwight, then Duncan in that order. Duncan is not the best player in the league right now.. and if you believe he is your not watching much basketball.

[Medvedenko]

Man...I know this is a spurs forum...but please....every year we hear Manu is better than Kobe after manu has a good game...please. Oh and for all you retards that say he'd mess up chemistry, fuck, did he take the "limelight" and bitch when he played on the US team this summer....I don't think so. You guys must be to young to remember Kobe bitch slapping your team during their 3 peat run. Yeah, I know it was all Shaq...who couldn't close out game himself for obvious reasons. Look at the Lakers this year, they have the 2nd best bench in the league...I guess Kobe couldn't steal all of their shots...what happened...man people are dense. I'll take coaches, GM's and other allstars comments on Kobe than anyone else on this board.

[Cry Havoc]

Is Kobe the best playing in the NBA? Right now.. I would Have Lebron, Kobe, Dwight, then Duncan in that order. Duncan is not the best player in the league right now.. and if you believe he is your not watching much regular season basketball.

FTFY. :spin

[ynh]

How many repeats have your Pistons had lately?



I didn't really want to go there.. But how many have you guys ever had? Seems we've done it once before.

[ArgSpursFan.]

Man...I know this is a spurs forum...but please....every year we hear Manu is better than Kobe .
yeah,and He keeps winning NBA rings and an Olympic Gold Medal since 2003,while Kobe has won...............................never mind.

[WalterBenitez]

Do you think Kobe will let Parker and Duncan score? Or will he try to take every available shot?

Nop, he would demand that the little french and that tall afro were traded... that uggly old man on the bench should keep calm.

WTF... I don't want Kobe around.

[Cry Havoc]

Look at the Lakers this year, they have the 2nd best bench in the league...I guess Kobe couldn't steal all of their shots...what happened...man people are dense. I'll take coaches, GM's and other allstars comments on Kobe than anyone else on this board.

Ah yes. The killer bench that Kobe totally ripped into earlier, right? :lol


"If Kobe would have been smart, he would have mended those fences with Shaquille, let Shaquille be 'The Man' and we wouldn't be in this position. Now, after four years later, he understands that he can't do it by himself. Now he's blaming the organization, and some of that blame should be on him and some on the organization." - Magic Johnson

[ynh]

Please by all means Havoc give us your top 5

[Medvedenko]

If Shaq was smart he wouldn't demand over 30 million a season himself......and we're talking Kobe now...you put Manu as main threat on a team they don't make the playoffs.

[Alain]

It's sad too see how much some fans, brainwashed by the mercantile hype, can't see the whole picture.
At the end of the day, there is only ONE thing that counts. It has nothing to do with individual stats, honnors, fantasy league, endorsements, fame, jersey selling or so called greatness.

Over the past seven years, no basketball player in the world has won more games/championships/medals than Manu.
Coincidence?
Pure luck?
My ass!

Manu Ginobili is a winner.
Of course he has worked a lot, developing his skills, physical abilities, comprehension of the game... but to be a winner you got to have something more, a combination of the education you received and the personality you've developed. You have IT, or not.

I know for sure that Manu has IT, as much as Tim has IT too.
I don't know about Kobe.
That's why I wouldn't do that trade.

[Medvedenko]

Not questioning Manu as a winner....but he's been part of some great organizations....look at Horry....same thing. Good players in greater situations. The question would you trade Manu straight up for Kobe....you wouldn't and the Lakers would never either, or any other sane GM in the league.

[Cry Havoc]

Please by all means Havoc give us your top 5

Jenn, Liz, Shannon, Erin, and Barkley. Wade wanted in but I wouldn't let him. :lol

[ynh]

Dang.. I don't like Kobe and even I don't have this much blind hate for him. The gm he plays for traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown.. The guy wouldn't even trade Bynum to get him Kidd or Jermaine. Their GM sucks.. I hate Kobe like the next guy but the guy has a pretty good reason to complain. They are wasting his prime years because they have a gm has no idea what he's doing. I mean look at who they have started around kobe this year (besides odom.. who is the same player he was in year one) : Fisher, Radmonovic, Turiaf, Bynum, Walton, Mihm, and Kwame. Now your seriously going to hold it against Kobe that he didn't win a ring with group. Give me a fucking break.

And the Kobe/ Shaq had more to do with the fact Buss didn't want to give Shaq a huge extention then it does anything you read about. For once don't believe everything your lead to believe.

[Cry Havoc]

And the Kobe/ Shaq had more to do with the fact Buss didn't want to give Shaq a huge extention then it does anything you read about. For once don't believe everything your lead to believe.


Yeah, you're right. You know more about the Lakers than Magic Johnson, whom I've just quoted on the last page doing little else but saying that it was all Kobe's fault. He said it on national TV, even. But yeah, YOU know what really happened, because you have a webcam set up in all those closed-door meetings.

:lol

[Medvedenko]

If Magic was really a huge influence why didn't he step in and mend fences....after that quote he basically said the Lakers need to make a decision within 2 weeks on trading Kobe...we'll it's been over a month....Magic while a great player, has no say in the Lakers FO.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Have you bothered to ever take a look at the roster he's worked with the last couple of years? But to answer your question. He's lost in the conf finals, lost in the finals, and taken one of the worst rosters to the playoffs twice in the toughest division in the league.

And if you think Manu is a better player then Kobe.. your either been drinking way too much Kool-aid or you don't watch any basketball other the the spurs and have a pretty pathetic understanding of the game.

Funny from a fan of a team who Manu dismantled singlehandedly. Not so much like Kobe and his Lakers stars who were dismantled by your team. You can't even compare.

[Medvedenko]

Allen Iverson had 51 in a loss to the Lakers, and makes Kobe Bryant look like the guy who has mastered working with teammates. Mark Kiszla of the Denver Post: "Anybody could see the Los Angeles Lakers beat the Nuggets 111-107 Wednesday night. But what was revealed is that not all Hall of Fame players are created equal. There is great, which Iverson will be, forever and always. And there is transcendent, which makes Bryant a basketball god on the order of Magic, Oscar and Wilt. What went down in the Pepsi Center was far more than two superstars in top form, because this was an enduring lesson in basketball history, a game that should be studied and replayed in the minds of everyone who loves the sport and wants to understand its essence."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-356/Thursday-Bullets.html

[Cry Havoc]

If Magic was really a huge influence why didn't he step in and mend fences....after that quote he basically said the Lakers need to make a decision within 2 weeks on trading Kobe...we'll it's been over a month....Magic while a great player, has no say in the Lakers FO.

Whoa, wait. When did I say he was an influence? I said he had knowledge of what went down. I didn't state that he was a determining factor in the Kobe-Shaq feud.

But of course, these posters on the Spurstalk forums apparently know more than Magic does about the what and the why of Shaq going to Miami.

[ArgSpursFan.]

It's sad too see how much some fans, brainwashed by the mercantile hype, can't see the whole picture.
At the end of the day, there is only ONE thing that counts. It has nothing to do with individual stats, honnors, fantasy league, endorsements, fame, jersey selling or so called greatness.

Over the past seven years, no basketball player in the world has won more games/championships/medals than Manu.
Coincidence?
Pure luck?
My ass!

Manu Ginobili is a winner.
Of course he has worked a lot, developing his skills, physical abilities, comprehension of the game... but to be a winner you got to have something more, a combination of the education you received and the personality you've developed. You have IT, or not.

I know for sure that Manu has IT, as much as Tim has IT too.
I don't know about Kobe.
That's why I wouldn't do that trade.

Word :tu

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Have you bothered to ever take a look at the roster he's worked with the last couple of years? But to answer your question. He's lost in the conf finals, lost in the finals, and taken one of the worst rosters to the playoffs twice in the toughest division in the league.

And if you think Manu is a better player then Kobe.. your either been drinking way too much Kool-aid or you don't watch any basketball other the the spurs and have a pretty pathetic understanding of the game.

Please allow me to refresh your mind. It was Kobe who helped dismantle his own team due to egos. He just couldn't handle not being MVP, etc, etc, etc. We all know the rest.

Manu on the other hand, being a star with more hardware than Kobe, steps aside and goes to the bench just so his team can win Pop-style.

Now tell me which one is best. Nuff said. Keep smoking.

[ArgSpursFan.]

Not questioning Manu as a winner....but he's been part of some great organizations....look at Horry....same thing. Good players in greater situations. The question would you trade Manu straight up for Kobe....you wouldn't and the Lakers would never either, or any other sane GM in the league.

the lakers would do anything to get rid of a cancer and get a winner,believe me.

[Cry Havoc]

Kiszla's spiel.

Ah! Kiszla! A truly knowledgeable fan when it comes to the NBA. This is the same guy who said that the Spurs were done after the first game of the playoffs last year. Not that they played a good game and lost, but that they had NO CHANCE OF WINNING THE TITLE. Because a truly intelligent basketball fan knows that the first game of the first series (where many starters are playing again for the first time in a week or two) is indicative of the rest of the post-season. :lmao

Yes. He's definitely someone who knows what he's talking about. :lol

[Medvedenko]

Better Offence
Better Defense
Look guys...there's a reason why Kobe is Kobe and Manu is Manu.....they don't belong in the same sentence when comparing players. I'm not disparaging Manu's accomplishments and I would love him to play on the Lakers. But please let's get some perspective. When Kobe is in the HOF and regarded as a top 3 player of all time we can all tell our grandchildren that we got to witness greatness and even bitched about it from time to time....


In the NBA, there can be only one king.

You can have LeBron James or Kevin Garnett.

Before the game, Nuggets coach George Karl testified that Bryant is one of the top three basketball talents in the history of basketball.

On a night when Iverson scored 51, we saw proof that Kobe is the king.

Link: http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_7646944

[ynh]

Yeah, you're right. You know more about the Lakers than Magic Johnson, whom I've just quoted on the last page doing little else but saying that it was all Kobe's fault. He said it on national TV, even. But yeah, YOU know what really happened, because you have a webcam set up in all those closed-door meetings.

:lol

What the heck do you expect him to say? "Oh well Buss doesn't want to pay fat ass all that money cause Shaqs game is going down the crapper pretty quick and we don't want to be tied up like Miami is right now with that huge ass contract."

"Earlier in the day, Bryant said Buss masterminded the trade of Shaquille O'Neal -- and Shaq later confirmed Kobe's account.

The issues between Bryant and the Lakers have reached a boil, beginning with Bryant voicing his displeasure with the club's direction, his suggestion that Jerry West should return to fix things, West's statement that he has no intention of undermining GM/good friend Mitch Kupchak, and, unrelated but bizarre in its timing, Buss' arrest early Tuesday for investigation of driving under the influence of alcohol.

Bryant was left "beyond furious" by a report in Tuesday's Los Angeles Times that read, "as a Lakers insider notes, it was Bryant's insistence on getting away from Shaquille O'Neal that got them in this mess."

O'Neal was traded to the Miami Heat after the 2003-04 season, and the long-held belief has been that the deteriorating relationship between O'Neal and Bryant was a factor in O'Neal's departure.


In the hours after Kobe Bryant made his trade request, ESPN.com users tried thousands of deals in the ESPN.com Trade Machine.


In response to the Times' story, Bryant, interviewed by Smith for a Philadelphia Inquirer column, said Buss "called a meeting with me after he spoke with Jim Gray [of ESPN] to talk with him about Shaq's future in the middle of the 2004 season.

"He met with me at the Four Seasons Hotel here [in Newport Beach, Calif.] across from Fashion Island, which is now the Island Hotel," Bryant told Smith. "I went up to his penthouse suite. [Buss] looks me dead in the face and says: 'Kobe, I am not going to re-sign Shaq. I am not about to pay him $30 million a year or $80 million over three years. No way in hell. I feel like he's getting older. His body is breaking down, and I don't want to pay that money to him when I can get value for him right now rather than wait.

"This is my decision. It's independent of you. My mind is made up. It doesn't matter to me what you do in free agency because I do not want to pay [Shaq], period.'"

"Dr. Buss said that," Bryant told Smith. "And I haven't said anything for years because I've always felt like folks were just looking to create controversy. Now I know. I realize what extent [the Lakers] will go to, to cover themselves."

Reached afterward, O'Neal told Smith that he believed his former teammate to be beyond reproach.

"I believe Kobe 100 percent," O'Neal said when reached in Los Angeles. "Absolutely. There's no doubt in my mind Kobe is telling the truth. I believe him a thousand percent.

"I would have respected Dr. Buss more as a man if he would have told me that himself, because I know he said it. But he didn't [tell me]. He never said a damn word to me."

Now are you telling me Oneal is lying.. nooooo you couldn't know more about the situation then he does could you? I mean you don't have a we cam set up behind all closed door meetings do you?

[bdubya]

Funny from a fan of a team who Manu dismantled singlehandedly.

:rollin :rollin


I was going to stay out of this circlemanujerk until I read that one.

Tied after 6.75 games = "dismantled"? Oh yah...totally :lol

Manu was a PITA, for sure, but don't you think maybe a little credit should go to Duncan? Parker? Horry? Bruce fucking BOWEN? POPOVICH? Naw, all them scrubs phoned it in...Manu carried them on his back for 4 games out of 7.... :lol :lol

[ArgSpursFan.]

Better Offence
Better Defense
Look guys...there's a reason why Kobe is Kobe and Manu is Manu.....they don't belong in the same sentence when comparing players. I'm not disparaging Manu's accomplishments and I would love him to play on the Lakers. But please let's get some perspective. When Kobe is in the HOF and regarded as a top 3 player of all time we can all tell our grandchildren that we got to witness greatness and even bitched about it from time to time....

Manu will be in the HOF as one of the best Int´l players ever in the NBA.
Read Alain's quote a few posts back,and you´ll see the whole picture.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Better Offence
Better Defense
Look guys...there's a reason why Kobe is Kobe and Manu is Manu.....they don't belong in the same sentence when comparing players. I'm not disparaging Manu's accomplishments and I would love him to play on the Lakers. But please let's get some perspective. When Kobe is in the HOF and regarded as a top 3 player of all time we can all tell our grandchildren that we got to witness greatness and even bitched about it from time to time....

Don't know about that. I can't imagine watching a Kobe's video with my grandchildren. I can imagine showing them a Manu's video and telling them that was the only player who won everything all over the planet. Kobe's history of bitching would undermine my efforts greatly.

If I tell you now that I don't think Kobe will ever win another ring in his career, would you believe? would you think I'm too far off?

[SpurOutofTownFan]

:rollin :rollin


I was going to stay out of this circlemanujerk until I read that one.

Tied after 6.75 games = "dismantled"? Oh yah...totally :lol

Manu was a PITA, for sure, but don't you think maybe a little credit should go to Duncan? Parker? Horry? Bruce fucking BOWEN? POPOVICH? Naw, all them scrubs phoned it in...Manu carried them on his back for 4 games out of 7.... :lol :lol

Hey I made my point! don't you think??? You need to win 4 out of 7 to win the series.. .there you go. End of the story. Thanks for your time.

[LEN BIAS 4EVER]

Does the olympic gold count that Kobe will win this summer ??

And Manu on his greatest day on earth couldn't D up like Kobe can. Not even close.

If this trade scenario was possible and it isn't, then it would be thanks for the memories Manu.....

[bdubya]

Hey I made my point! don't you think???

If your point was that Duncan, Parker, Bowen, Horry and Barry are scrubs, then sure, you made it. :rolleyes

[ArgSpursFan.]

Does the olympic gold count that Kobe will win this summer ??

....
:lmao I wouldn´t say that until the gold medal ceremony

Seriusly,I know the US team is great,but...games have to be played yet,and US haven't faced the real Argie Team or Spain yet.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I'm smart

[Man In Black]

I hope when you say you have the best player you mean fit and not actually the best player.
I'll say that Kobe Bryant is the best PERIMETER player in the league. He doesn't have as many ALL-NBA 1st team placements or as many 1st All-D team placements, he doesn't have any MVPs, nor any Finals MVPs nor in his role as leader ever gotten his team further than Duncan has. The best player in the L is still Tim Duncan. While Tim doesn't score as much, he still finds ways to make his contributions mean something unlike some cheesy 81 point blowout of a then-weak Raptors squad.


So.. are you the best? Nope.. as of right now the best team is the Celtics.. do you have room to impove? YEP
Let's see, the Celtics and the Spurs. Celtics have 1 less loss, Spurs have 1 more win. Doesn't that make them even? Also, since this Spurs team already has the cohesion from being a team for a SIGNIIFICANTLY LONGER PERIOD, that alone makes the better than the Celtics NEW 5. We'll see when they play, but I expect that as long as the team plays with that same kind of intensity and focus, NO team in the L can beat them 4 out of 7.


It's stupid.. Kobe is the most dynamic offensive player in the league.. also one of if not the top defensive guard in the league. Spurs once had the most dynamic offensive players in the league. Led the league in scoring a few times, his name was George Gervin, The Iceman...remember him? How many titles did his running team win? Not one, only got to the Eastern conference finals that's it. Bringing in Kobe means you introduce the possibility of him fitting in, whereas if you stay status quo, you already know how well you fit. You're a Piston fan...DO YOU MISS BEN WALLACE? When he was there, you already knew what to expect from him, do you get that from Nazr Mohammed? See that is what happens. This ain't plug and play Playstation...it's finding a team that has the right mindset and that set is no better explained than this translated statement from Manu,"Everyone asks me if this great start creates expectation with regards to being selected to the All-Star game. I’ve also already commented on this: I don’t play thinking on that objective, I don’t go into every game with the goal of making it to the All Star. I just want to play well, and have my team succeed. I don’t think of prizes, distinctions, or accolades. If the come, all for the better, but I don’t lose sleep over them."


Oh and for all you retards that say he'd mess up chemistry, fuck, did he take the "limelight" and bitch when he played on the US team this summer....I don't think so. Where was KBB in 04 when his country needed him then?


I recall in 99 the bitch slap was started by San Antonio who closed down the Forum forever. Who quantifies 2nd best YOU?
I don't need to see the coaches, the gm's and all other all-stars to know how well the Spurs are playing. With Manu they are kicking asses and taking names. No adjustment needed.

[Alain]

This is all about MJ's legacy.
Since the bulls success, the casual NBA fandom tend to believe that greatness = winning, and they're wrong.
Jordan was a freaky exception, the kind you see once every 50 years, as he managed to be the greatest individual player and the ultimate winner at the same time.
Unfortunately for him and his worshipers, Kobe is not MJ and will never be.

You can say all you want about bad FO, bad circumstances, bad teammates. What remains is simple and clear: Kobe is not a proven winner, Manu is.

[phyzik]

talking Fantasy basketball, trade in a heartbeat.

Real life... fuck no.

Nothing at all against Kobe but I just dont see him fitting in the system like Manu does.

[temujin]

The WORST game Emanuel Ginobili ever played was G3 of the 07 NBA finals.
He scored 3 points.
All free throws.
ALL in the final minute.

His team won by.........3 points.

When you have a winner, you never let himgo.

Even when he's 60.

[ynh]

I'll say that Kobe Bryant is the best PERIMETER player in the league. He doesn't have as many ALL-NBA 1st team placements or as many 1st All-D team placements, he doesn't have any MVPs, nor any Finals MVPs nor in his role as leader ever gotten his team further than Duncan has. The best player in the L is still Tim Duncan. While Tim doesn't score as much, he still finds ways to make his contributions mean something unlike some cheesy 81 point blowout of a then-weak Raptors squad.. Once again the question is who is the best player in the nba.. I'm talking right NOW as in I don't care what you did for me last year.. if we were taking past acculaides (really messed that word up) Shaq would be way up there.. but he isn't. Right now as they are playing Dunan is lucky to be top 5 player RIGHT NOW.. and notice I said right now before you decide to jump on me..




Let's see, the Celtics and the Spurs. Celtics have 1 less loss, Spurs have 1 more win. Doesn't that make them even? Also, since this Spurs team already has the cohesion from being a team for a SIGNIIFICANTLY LONGER PERIOD, that alone makes the better than the Celtics NEW 5. We'll see when they play, but I expect that as long as the team plays with that same kind of intensity and focus, NO team in the L can beat them 4 out of 7.. Last time I checked .882 is > then .842. Second statement is nothing but opinion I'm just laying out the facts.



Spurs once had the most dynamic offensive players in the league. Led the league in scoring a few times, his name was George Gervin, The Iceman...remember him? How many titles did his running team win? Not one, only got to the Eastern conference finals that's it. Bringing in Kobe means you introduce the possibility of him fitting in, whereas if you stay status quo, you already know how well you fit. You're a Piston fan...DO YOU MISS BEN WALLACE? When he was there, you already knew what to expect from him, do you get that from Nazr Mohammed? See that is what happens. This ain't plug and play Playstation...it's finding a team that has the right mindset and that set is no better explained than this translated statement from Manu,"Everyone asks me if this great start creates expectation with regards to being selected to the All-Star game. I’ve also already commented on this: I don’t play thinking on that objective, I don’t go into every game with the goal of making it to the All Star. I just want to play well, and have my team succeed. I don’t think of prizes, distinctions, or accolades. If the come, all for the better, but I don’t lose sleep over them.".

Yes I do.. Iceman was also a notoriously terrible defender that which Kobe isn't.. so that right there kills whatever comparison you were trying to base your side on.

I have no idea where you're coming from on the Ben Wallace question. Yea replacing a great player (who isn't good now) with a stiff isn't going to help your team.. is that somehow post to relate to replacing a great player (Manu) with a better player (Kobe)?

And no need for the playstation comment.. no shit I know that.. obviously I know something about basketball or else I wouldn't be spending my time in here.

[spursrocksocks]

you couldnt pay me to have kobe on the spurs

[Cherry]

One is a teammate, the other is a cancer. Please note the difference.


:toast

[ynh]

lol no worries.. I think in the end the feeling is more then likely mutual on his part.

[Alain]

replacing a great player (Manu) with a better player (Kobe)?

And no need for the playstation comment.. no shit I know that.. obviously I know something about basketball or else I wouldn't be spending my time in here.

Seems like there's one thing you don't know about basketball: it's a team sport!
When you compose a roster -I mean, in real life, not fantasy "basketball"- having the best overall player at each spot will never guarantee anything except ego problems. You have to find the best possible TEAMmate playing at his best within the TEAM system and philosophy. And if you are lucky enough to get a few true winners in the process then it's called a dynasty.

Summing stat lines will never get you there, and saying that replacing Manu with Kobe would absolutely improve the Spurs level is relevant of the finest idiocy.

[ynh]

Seems like there's one thing you don't know about basketball: it's a team sport!
When you compose a roster -I mean, in real life, not fantasy "basketball"- having the best overall player at each spot will never guarantee anything except ego problems. You have to find the best possible TEAMmate playing at his best within the TEAM system and philosophy. And if you are lucky enough to get a few true winners in the process then it's called a dynasty.

Summing stat lines will never get you there, and saying that replacing Manu with Kobe would absolutely improve the Spurs level is relevant of the finest idiocy.

No shit sherlock. Once again the best someone can come up with is you don't know anything about basketball.. blah blah blah this isn't nba 2k.. blah blah blah not fantasy basketball.

Post something original or don't post at all. You just recyled the past 40 posts.. Yay for you.

[Alain]

Sorry dude.
I was just trying to help you.

Have you ever considered being a tennis fan?

[Cherry]

Seems like there's one thing you don't know about basketball: it's a team sport!
When you compose a roster -I mean, in real life, not fantasy "basketball"- having the best overall player at each spot will never guarantee anything except ego problems. You have to find the best possible TEAMmate playing at his best within the TEAM system and philosophy. And if you are lucky enough to get a few true winners in the process then it's called a dynasty.

Summing stat lines will never get you there, and saying that replacing Manu with Kobe would absolutely improve the Spurs level is relevant of the finest idiocy.

Best post in this Thread :)

[Medvedenko]

Once again....thread is over for all I care.....like I said in the past I'll take coaches, players and Gm's for their opinion on who's the best. You can keep your discussion of Manu being a better overall player.

[ATXSPUR]

No and not because I think manu is better. Chemistry means just as much as everything...even more than an all star lineup of players (see 04 lakers).

[Alain]

Kobe is a better overall player.
Manu is a winner and the best possible player for the Spurs system and philosophy.

Is that so hard to understand?

[Man In Black]

Once again....thread is over for all I care.....like I said in the past I'll take coaches, players and Gm's for their opinion on who's the best. You can keep your discussion of Manu being a better overall player.
You don't comprehend very well. I guess everyone thinks we're blinded by loyalties.
Just answer these 2 questions Medvedenko...Is Kobe a better overall player on both sides of the court than Tim Duncan in terms of effect on the game?
Every team has a system that they play, do you concede that some players fit that system better than others?

So it's not that Manu is better than Kobe, it's more that we already have a need more than capably filled and don't need to spend too much for what is the same skill set, even if it's better because in tangible terms, it's not that much better despite the big city hype. When a player has won at every level he has ever been at, it ain't because he is just plain lucky to have solid teammates, it's also because he is a primary contributor. IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

[jay014]

You guys are nuts if you wouldn't trade Manu for Kobe.. let me guess you wouldn't trade Manu for Bron either.. cause Manu is a better fit cause he lives in San Antonio
Manu for Bron now that's more like it.

[Deimosfobos]

Better Offence
Better Defense
Look guys...there's a reason why Kobe is Kobe and Manu is Manu.....they don't belong in the same sentence when comparing players. I'm not disparaging Manu's accomplishments and I would love him to play on the Lakers. But please let's get some perspective. When Kobe is in the HOF and regarded as a top 3 player of all time we can all tell our grandchildren that we got to witness greatness and even bitched about it from time to time....

Sorry, i respect you and even tho i don't always agree with you, this time i REALLY don't agree with you.

Kobe is not on the top 3 palyers of all time... not even close. I accept that you love him, but saying he's THAT good makes you look like a homer. :drunk

[sa_kid20]

If it aint broke don't fix it

[Oberto #1 Fan]

Kobe's ranked 5th in PER, Manu ranked 2nd.

Just because the media insists that Kobe is the "best player in the game" doesn't mean you have to just accept it. They are lazy and go by PPG to determine a player's value.

I'm not saying Manu is better but to insist that Kobe' "so much better" is just ridicuous. Manu is a top 3 SG in the NBA, along with Kobe and Wade, and yes, they are all 3 very close. Deal with it.

[inspurated]

Pisst-ons Suck, Lakers Suck Keep Kobe We'll Take A Team. Period

[SpurOutofTownFan]

No shit sherlock. Once again the best someone can come up with is you don't know anything about basketball.. blah blah blah this isn't nba 2k.. blah blah blah not fantasy basketball.

Post something original or don't post at all. You just recyled the past 40 posts.. Yay for you.

I think he owned you there Mr. Pistons fan

[ehz33satx]

Never. Manu will go balls out every time and show extreme will to win. Kobe is petulant. He will go all of a first half and only take 1 or 2 shots just so he can prove a point. He is more than capable of sulking around and screwing up your game plan. Screw that. Manu is a man. He would never do that.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

i'd trade kobe for manu in a second. he is the type of player that could adapt to any situation very fast and ver easily. he does basically does everything manu does but better (D, passing, driving, scoring, shooting).

passing i guess you could argue w/. but put kobe in our system in which he has to play within a motion style offense and we start to see more of his passing and how good he actually is at it. people obviously don't really notice it, nor his defense for that matter, because his other awesome parts of his gaame overshadow them.

[AFBlue]

Last guard to single-handedly take his team to multiple finals.....Michael Jordan.

Somehow, Kobe doesn't draw THAT comparison...so I'll pass.

Manu is the tits...but he is best served as the ultimate complimentary player to the best PF of all time.

Duncan is the truth.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

btw i find it hilarious that some of my fellow spurs fans have seemed to forget about how Kobe by himself dismantled our team, and others for that matter, when the lakers when on their 3peat.

manu couldn't have done that in his fucking dreama

[jay014]

btw i find it hilarious that some of my fellow spurs fans have seemed to forget about how Kobe by himself dismantled our team, and others for that matter, when the lakers when on their 3peat.

manu couldn't have done that in his fucking dreama
you forgot how he wants to dismantled his own team.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

well, explain ur reasoning. how'd he dismantle his own team?

[ehz33satx]

btw i find it hilarious that some of my fellow spurs fans have seemed to forget about how Kobe by himself dismantled our team, and others for that matter, when the lakers when on their 3peat.

manu couldn't have done that in his fucking dreama

Then why don't you jump ship and go be a Lakers fan?

[jay014]

Where's Shaq? Phil left and came back.signs an extension wants out, wants in, wants out again,wants Bynum gone and others and you want that piece of shit here for Manu.Don't get me wrong they'll win with Kobe then what? Kobe wants Tim and Tony traded to prove that he can destroy a team once again.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

u idiot. ur logic is fallacious. like when bush says if ur not w/ us than ur against us, or ur not patriotic.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Where's Shaq? Phil left and came back.signs an extension wants out, wants in, wants out again,wants Bynum gone and others and you want that piece of shit here for Manu.Don't get me wrong they'll win with Kobe then what? Kobe wants Tim and Tony traded to prove that he can destroy a team once again.

so complaing that the team around him sucks is dismantling them? wtf? and u can't dismantle a team if it's already a piece of shit to beign with

[deadratsam]

The WORST game Emanuel Ginobili ever played was G3 of the 07 NBA finals.
He scored 3 points.
All free throws.
ALL in the final minute.

His team won by.........3 points.

When you have a winner, you never let himgo.

Even when he's 60.


This.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

and shaq wasn't even an importqnt piece to the puzzle. the last couple of years witht he lakers he let himself gat fat, plus, he was already old.

[Darkwaters]

Kobe to the Spurs = Death of ball movement

While Kobe is hands down the better individual player than Ginobili, I often wonder if he even takes the time to learn the names of his teammates. Team ball wins championships (ask the Pistons about it). Theres a reason that Kobe hasn't won a championship recently. Lack of that aforementioned team play.

No thanks. I'll keep my team first guy.

[jay014]

and shaq wasn't even an importqnt piece to the puzzle. the last couple of years witht he lakers he let himself gat fat, plus, he was already old.
He went on to win another title without Kobe.

[sa_kid20]

and shaq wasn't even an importqnt piece to the puzzle. the last couple of years witht he lakers he let himself gat fat, plus, he was already old.
Holy shit thats like the most rediculous thing i've ever heard. The lakers haven't even won a playoff series since shaq left while he has gone on to get a fourth ring without Kobe.

[TheAuthority]

Whoa. Hold on. Kobe > Manu... but Kobe > Duncan? Give me a fucking break. :lmao

1) Duncan
2) LeBron
3) Garnett

Call me when Kobe gets out of the first round, then we'll talk.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Kobe's a prima donna.

Most Spurs fans don't have a short term memory, his latest antics occurred in the summer of '07 annoying even his most loyal supporters.


Manu's game may not be up on the level of Kobe. But he's got real character, right up there with Duncan.





so complaing that the team around him sucks is dismantling them? wtf? and u can't dismantle a team if it's already a piece of shit to beign with
The team with 4 HOF's was a piece of shit?

[Ronaldo McDonald]

they were old and slow, and they beat a spurs that choked big time. shaq was snaq at the time and karl amlone and gary payton were baout as useful as farmar and odom are right now.

had they re-signed shaq ur assuming one huge thing: that he'd have got himsef into shape like he did w/ miami, which is hard to believe since the 2 years before he was a lazy ass.

[jay014]

gary payton won in miami.

[Cry Havoc]

they were old and slow, and they beat a spurs that choked big time. shaq was snaq at the time and karl amlone and gary payton were baout as useful as farmar and odom are right now.

had they re-signed shaq ur assuming one huge thing: that he'd have got himsef into shape like he did w/ miami, which is hard to believe since the 2 years before he was a lazy ass.

Dude, stop. You're making yourself look bad.

[BlackFlagg]

HELL no.

[100%duncan]

totally NO.kobe would kill this team if he is here.

[mystargtr34]

The one thing ive learnt from this thread:

There are ALOT of Homers on this board. A bit of subjectivity,,,, please

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

You guys are nuts if you wouldn't trade Manu for Kobe.. let me guess you wouldn't trade Manu for Bron either.. cause Manu is a better fit cause he lives in San Antonio

I would not trade Manu for Kobe. As someone previously mentioned... Kobe has character flaws that factor in. Kobe is a better scorer (though not by a super-wide margin... Manu doesn't need to score as much as Kobe, with Tim and Tony here), but in other facets of the game, and certainly off the court, I like Manu better. And yes, there's also the fact that he is such a great fit in SA (Ginobili that is).

I WOULD however trade him for Lebron. Lebron is too gifted in too many ways, and he's much younger.

[SAGambler]

It's sad too see how much some fans, brainwashed by the mercantile hype, can't see the whole picture.
At the end of the day, there is only ONE thing that counts. It has nothing to do with individual stats, honnors, fantasy league, endorsements, fame, jersey selling or so called greatness.

Over the past seven years, no basketball player in the world has won more games/championships/medals than Manu.
Coincidence?
Pure luck?
My ass!

Manu Ginobili is a winner.
Of course he has worked a lot, developing his skills, physical abilities, comprehension of the game... but to be a winner you got to have something more, a combination of the education you received and the personality you've developed. You have IT, or not.

I know for sure that Manu has IT, as much as Tim has IT too.
I don't know about Kobe.
That's why I wouldn't do that trade.

And that's what idiots don't get. There are winners and there are superstars and more likely than not they won't be the same person.

Manu is a winner...pure and simple......

Kobe is a "best there is superstar".....

Manu is a TEAM player.

Kobe is a self centered ego maniac, who is probably lucky he isn't playing on a prison team instead of the Lakers. I guess money can buy happiness. Or at least keep you out of prison.

Now which one of these guys do I want playing for the Spurs? Certainly not Kobe......

[Purple & Gold]

Is this a joke thread?? :wtf

[SAGambler]

Here is another take on you "Great Kobe" vs "Nobody Manu"

Both have played in 19 games thus far.

Kobes' line goes something like this.

27 ppg @ 46%...35% from 3 pt land....87% from FT line and a total of 515 points.

Manus' line goes like this.

20 ppg @ 48%...44% from 3 pt land....83% from FT line and a total of 386 points.

While Kobe is outscoring Manu by a total of 129 points, Kobe is also logging probably at least 15 more minutes per game. Do the math. It will show that Kobe really isn't that much better on the offensive end and he certainly isn't a more dominate defensive player.

Also consider the time on the floor difference and Kobe has 10 more assists on the season, 3 more steals and 3 more blocks.

Give Manu the same amount of PT and it would suggest that Manu would equal or excede Kobe in every category.

So much for the "Kobe is a much greater player than Manu".

So much for the "Trade Manu for Kobe"....

Leave him in Lakerland where at least there are a ton of Hollywood would be starlets, that are willing to occupy his down time, while the Spurs are still playing for another Championship.

[Cry Havoc]

The one thing ive learnt from this thread:

There are ALOT of Homers on this board. A bit of subjectivity,,,, please

Please stop braying ignorance about best players = best team. Real Spurs fans know that character and maturity have just as much to do with what makes a player great as physical ability. Perhaps you haven't caught onto that yet.

[ynh]

Where's Shaq? Phil left and came back.signs an extension wants out, wants in, wants out again,wants Bynum gone and others and you want that piece of shit here for Manu.Don't get me wrong they'll win with Kobe then what? Kobe wants Tim and Tony traded to prove that he can destroy a team once again.

Once again would someone actually read what I posted on the whole "Kobe got rid of shaq" thing. I proved that it wasn't Kobe and it was infact that Buss didn't want to pay Fat Ass 30 million a year. So the whole crap where's Shaq has no relavance.

Second, Bynum. Are you seriously going to fault Kobe for being pissed that Bynum wasn't traded for Kidd or Jermaine? Give me a break! You're hating on Kobe for wanting to make the team better and for wanting to get the players that would make the team closer to a championship. It's a double standered.

And Again on the last point what is you're basis for assuming that that would happen? Because Malone retired and Buss didn't want to pay Fat Ass? READ what I post! I'm tired of people hating on Kobe for something that isn't true.

[Purple & Gold]

Once again would someone actually read what I posted on the whole "Kobe got rid of shaq" thing. I proved that it wasn't Kobe and it was infact that Buss didn't want to pay Fat Ass 30 million a year. So the whole crap where's Shaq has no relavance.

Second, Bynum. Are you seriously going to fault Kobe for being pissed that Bynum wasn't traded for Kidd or Jermaine? Give me a break! You're hating on Kobe for wanting to make the team better and for wanting to get the players that would make the team closer to a championship. It's a double standered.

And Again on the last point what is you're basis for assuming that that would happen? Because Malone retired and Buss didn't want to pay Fat Ass? READ what I post! I'm tired of people hating on Kobe for something that isn't true.

Well for the record Kobe did have a part in Shaq leaving. But it is true that the main reason is because Dr. Buss didn't wanna pay him $30 Million a year.

As for Kobe this offseason he should have handled it like a professional. Crying to the media is not how a professional handles things.

And Bynum is the real deal. :smokin

[ynh]

Whoa. Hold on. Kobe > Manu... but Kobe > Duncan? Give me a fucking break. :lmao

1) Duncan
2) LeBron
3) Garnett

Call me when Kobe gets out of the first round, then we'll talk.

Whats your number? Cause last I checked he's been to 4 finals and won 3 championships. Or do you mean when he leads the great Jordan Farmar to a dynasty. Jesus you people have such blind hate and have to throw such unrealistic expectations and believe bullshit lies that a corporate organization fed the media to cover their ass to justify your hate for the guy. Yea let me guess. Tim motherfucking Dunan.. or no Manu would lead Jordan Farmar and Kwame Brown to the greatest dynasty this side of the old celtics. Some of you actually have some sense but man there are alot of deluted blind homers in this place.

[ynh]

Purple thanks for actually making a post worth reading.

As far as the bynum thing I still would of traded him for Kidd and can understand why Kobe would be pissed.

[ynh]

Please stop braying ignorance about best players = best team. Real Spurs fans know that character and maturity have just as much to do with what makes a player great as physical ability. Perhaps you haven't caught onto that yet.


Hey look he showed up again after I handed your ass back to you. So you still believe that Magic Johnson knows more then shaq and kobe on the whole Buss situation?

[Purple & Gold]

Purple thanks for actually making a post worth reading.

As far as the bynum thing I still would of traded him for Kidd and can understand why Kobe would be pissed.

I wouldn't just for the reason that you have to match salaries. It would have took Kwame, Farmar, Mihm, McKie, Bynum, and a first. That would have left us with Turiaf playing center and no future whatsoever.

Bynum has also proved why the FO is so keen on keeping him. He will be a dominant center for many many years. And it seems like Kidd is available again. So I would have to say it was the right move to not make the trade.

[ynh]

I can agree with that.. you state your case well.

[Cry Havoc]

Purple thanks for actually making a post worth reading.

Yes thanks Purple for confirming that Kobe did have something to do with running Shaq out of L.A. I see that ynh has totally neglected to read that part since it contradicts what he's saying.


As far as the bynum thing I still would of traded him for Kidd and can understand why Kobe would be pissed.

So let me get this straight: It's BYNUM's fault that he didn't get traded. Bynum deserves to be ripped into at all of 20 years old because of a GM decision. Bynum deserves to hear his name torn apart in the media because Kobe was pissed about a trade that didn't happen and went to the media. Yes, Kobe is such a mature player that he went after a kid and publicly denounced him. What a GREAT teammate. Who wouldn't want this guy on their team? :lol


Hey look he showed up again after I handed your ass back to you. So you still believe that Magic Johnson knows more then shaq and kobe on the whole Buss situation?

You've done nothing of the sort. Please show me where you've made a relevant post that hasn't yet been refuted. Purple and Gold agreed with me on both of points, that Kobe ran Shaq out of town, and that Kobe acted without class or concern for his teammates when he lambasted Bynum and Co. to the media.

As far as "showing up again"... I don't live on this board, pal. I don't constantly check to see if someone has responded to a thread I've posted in. So you'll pardon me for not replying to you like it's an instant message conversation about how "leet" your fantasy team is.


Cause last I checked he's been to 4 finals and won 3 championships.

Manu is 3/3. So his winning percentage in the Finals is higher. It's adorable how you refute Manu's ability to win titles on his own and then are such a braggart about Kobe's 3 Shaq-filled rings.


I proved that it wasn't Kobe and it was infact that Buss didn't want to pay Fat Ass 30 million a year.

Wow. Glad you proved that. Despite Shaq, Phil, and Magic saying otherwise. Good on you. Even P&G agrees with the assessment that it was Kobe's doing as well.

Your selective reading is getting to be quite humorous.

[ynh]

As far as selective reading.. well you missed this part.


But it is true that the main reason is because Dr. Buss didn't wanna pay him $30 Million a year.


Second learn to read.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2886927

[ynh]

lol Don't live on this board.. You got 25 hundred freakin posts!

[Cry Havoc]

lol Don't live on this board.. You got 25 hundred freakin posts!

Total Posts: 60 (12.41 posts per day)

:lol

You just aren't worth responding to anymore.

[Mixability]

ok seriously?

[ynh]

Total Posts: 60 (12.41 posts per day)

:lol

You just aren't worth responding to anymore.

I'd have far fewer posts if you actually answered my question instead of avoiding it. So here we go again... Do you still believe that Magic Johnson knows more then Kobe and Shaq about the Buss situation and what lead to Shaq being traded to the Heat.

And yea I'm sorry.. I used a crap load of posts while I was at work yesterday trying to get you people to be less of an idiot. You got me.. I've been on here for a week.. I obviously have no life.

Now are you going to answer my question or avoid it again cause you know you were wrong.

[diego]

as a reformed kobe-hater, i think the only difference between manu and kobe production wise is that kobe has considerably better stamina and durability. thats pretty important in an 82 game season for a first option.

on the spurs however, in manu's closer role, that is not that important. what is important, is deference to pop, duncan, and forgetting about personal accomplishments (its hard to lead the league in anything playing 30mpg).

so clearly, kobe is a better fit in LA, and manu is a better fit in SA. whats the problem with that??

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Dude, stop. You're making yourself look bad.

can u elaborate douchebag or do expect me to use telepathy?

[ynh]

can u elaborate douchebag or do expect me to use telepathy?


He won't answer your question. He'll give you some elaberate explaination that he has 2500 posts but doesn't live here.. even though you'll see his name on the viewing list.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

So let me get this straight: It's BYNUM's fault that he didn't get traded. Bynum deserves to be ripped into at all of 20 years old because of a GM decision. Bynum deserves to hear his name torn apart in the media because Kobe was pissed about a trade that didn't happen and went to the media. Yes, Kobe is such a mature player that he went after a kid and publicly denounced him. What a GREAT teammate. Who wouldn't want this guy on their team? :lol

u make bynum out to be a fucking saint. this is the same guy who Phil Jackson called out last year becasue the idiot was being lazy during practice and didn't wan't to practice using his left hand....in addition to that he was late, if i'm not mistaken, to the first game of the season! he deserves to have his ass chewed out!

[Cry Havoc]

I'd have far fewer posts if you actually answered my question instead of avoiding it. So here we go again... Do you still believe that Magic Johnson knows more then Kobe and Shaq about the Buss situation and what lead to Shaq being traded to the Heat.

Oh for the love of God. Do you really need this question answered? Kobe and Shaq are both players with heavy PR concerns. They had to be discreet about the situation anyway. Are you that blind to the way Shaq and Kobe verbally sparred for years? Of course they knew the situation. However, only one of us (apparently) takes players on their word as a biblical oath of truth.


And yea I'm sorry.. I used a crap load of posts while I was at work yesterday trying to get you people to be less of an idiot. You got me.. I've been on here for a week.. I obviously have no life.

You're the one who insinuated I "showed up again". Don't be arrogant and then act like it's none of your doing when people respond.


Now are you going to answer my question or avoid it again cause you know you were wrong.

I'm not the one proclaiming Kobe's innocence in all of this. While there were likely multiple factors involved in the movement of Shaq to Miami, I think the primary reasons were money and Kobe, probably equally. I can't speak for sure, as I don't pretend to personally know the players and their motives *cough* unlike some. I can say for almost a certainty though that Shaq might have been persuaded to take less money if he was having fun in L.A. with the chance at more titles. However, he made it clear that he wanted out, then proceeded to go to play with Wade. Oddly enough, he and Wade never had conflicts! Now I wonder why that is?

Perhaps you'd have far fewer posts if you asked relevant questions instead of trying to make inconsequential points and cherry pick the parts of other posts that agree with you.

[Medvedenko]

ahahahah....still going on...oh and for douchebag that says give Manu the same minutes as Kobe and he'd be a better player...please if he actually had to average more minutues his effeciecy would be decreased especially if he was the main option. Can't people see this..damn. You guys are the biggest homers outside of Dallas fans.

[Cry Havoc]

can u elaborate douchebag or do expect me to use telepathy?

Sure. You stated that Shaq was horrible after the HOF Lakers were beaten by the Pistons.

Of course, after that happened Shaq moved on and won another ring, while Kobe hasn't made it out of the first round since.


and shaq wasn't even an importqnt piece to the puzzle. the last couple of years witht he lakers he let himself gat fat, plus, he was already old.

Comments like this are not only devoid of readable English, but they have absolutely no basis in reality. I mean, really. Do you think Parker scores 20+ a game because the defense is focused on Bonner or Oberto scoring on them in the post? Stating Shaq wasn't important to the title is... well... if you don't realize how stupid that sounds, I can't help you.

And thanks for calling a fellow Spurs fan a name. Makes you look extremely credible.

[Medvedenko]

Here is another take on you "Great Kobe" vs "Nobody Manu"

Both have played in 19 games thus far.

Kobes' line goes something like this.

27 ppg @ 46%...35% from 3 pt land....87% from FT line and a total of 515 points.

Manus' line goes like this.

20 ppg @ 48%...44% from 3 pt land....83% from FT line and a total of 386 points.

While Kobe is outscoring Manu by a total of 129 points, Kobe is also logging probably at least 15 more minutes per game. Do the math. It will show that Kobe really isn't that much better on the offensive end and he certainly isn't a more dominate defensive player.

Also consider the time on the floor difference and Kobe has 10 more assists on the season, 3 more steals and 3 more blocks.

Give Manu the same amount of PT and it would suggest that Manu would equal or excede Kobe in every category.

So much for the "Kobe is a much greater player than Manu".

So much for the "Trade Manu for Kobe"....

Leave him in Lakerland where at least there are a ton of Hollywood would be starlets, that are willing to occupy his down time, while the Spurs are still playing for another Championship.

Man that's some of the dumbest shit in the world I just read.....SAgambler...please resign yourself to only talk about the spurs, as you clearly don't know shit about any other NBA players. Oh, and if you're going to pull stats out of your ass, please be accurate. Kobe's only averaging around 7 minutes per game and actually is more efficient and plays D on the best players on the opposite team. Your homerism is beyond even mine.....

I can gaurantee you that if you ask all NBA players who is the best player in the league they would 90% of time choose Kobe. Oh and Manu wouldn't even be in the top 10 in discussion. Fuck this thread is starting to piss me off. You have manu having his best statistical season ever and he still can't touch Kobe. Keep the insanity coming....

[Purple & Gold]

u make bynum out to be a fucking saint. this is the same guy who Phil Jackson called out last year becasue the idiot was being lazy during practice and didn't wan't to practice using his left hand....in addition to that he was late, if i'm not mistaken, to the first game of the season! he deserves to have his ass chewed out!

So now Phil called Bynum out for being lazy last year?? He didn't want to use his left hand in practice?? Where did you get this information??

As for being late the first game of the season, in his defense that day there was a huge accident and had traffic at a standstill for hours (freeways and side streets). Not excusable, but certainly understandable considering how bad L.A. traffic can get.

[Mixability]

You guys are the biggest homers outside of Dallas fans.

As long as you know ALL Spurs fans don't feel this way.

[ArgSpursFan.]

Man that's some of the dumbest shit in the world I just read.....SAgambler...please resign yourself to only talk about the spurs, as you clearly don't know shit about any other NBA players. Oh, and if you're going to pull stats out of your ass, please be accurate. Kobe's only averaging around 7 minutes per game and actually is more efficient and plays D on the best players on the opposite team. Your homerism is beyond even mine.....
OK,We never said in this board that Manu was a better individual player.
What we are discussin here is that There isn't such a big gap(as you think there is)between both of them.
Numbers per 48 mins are about the same, and that's the bottonline.I give you that Kobe is still effective playing a whole bunch of minutes,and Manu would not be able to keep up with so much minutes at the same level for many games(He'll probably go out of legs)
But it also has to do with the way Manu plays every game and the intensity he brings to the court every single minute he's playing.
But at the end,Manu is the better teammate.Manu is the one who can coexist with another 2 superstars on his same time,and will do just what his coach wants him to do in order to win games,And STILL be able to pull 20 pts 4 ast and 5 rpg in less tham 30 mpg,and taking way less shots per game tham Kobe
The total equation equals Kobe<Manu

[Cry Havoc]

Man that's some of the dumbest shit in the world I just read.....SAgambler...please resign yourself to only talk about the spurs, as you clearly don't know shit about any other NBA players. Oh, and if you're going to pull stats out of your ass, please be accurate. Kobe's only averaging around 7 minutes per game and actually is more efficient and plays D on the best players on the opposite team. Your homerism is beyond even mine.....

I can gaurantee you that if you ask all NBA players who is the best player in the league they would 90% of time choose Kobe. Oh and Manu wouldn't even be in the top 10 in discussion. Fuck this thread is starting to piss me off. You have manu having his best statistical season ever and he still can't touch Kobe. Keep the insanity coming....

It's not stupid, it's statistics. Extrapolating statistics does not make him a homer. It's what John Hollinger does all the time.

That said, I think Kobe is clearly the better individual player. More dynamic scorer, probably slightly better on defense. I'd give Manu an edge on intangibles, but that's about it.

That said, Manu is playing absolutely possessed this year. He's been the best player on arguably the 2nd best team in the league.

For probably the 15th time this point is made in the thread, the sensible fans are not saying Manu > Kobe. They aren't even saying Manu = Kobe. They are simply stating he fits in better with the Spurs system, which demands teamwork and sacrifice and a dedication to team ball rather than just firing away. I cannot imagine how furious Pop would be if one of our players took it upon himself to hoist 40 shots in a contest, regardless if we won or lost the game. That is not and has never been the Spurs style, and the reason that Pop is such a great coach is that individual wins satisfy him less than a loss with positive results. Is this clear enough, or are you going to call us homers for valuing teamwork? Feel free. We'll just point to the banners.

At this point though, I'm pretty convinced that anything resembling a negative comment towards Kobe is disregarded by med, vnh, and ronald.

[Cry Havoc]

I can gaurantee you that if you ask all NBA players who is the best player in the league they would 90% of time choose Kobe.

Fallacious to the extreme. You have zero proof of this. It's nothing more than blind speculation.


Fuck this thread is starting to piss me off.

Getting pissed at the internet? :wtf I can't help you in that case.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Sure. You stated that Shaq was horrible after the HOF Lakers were beaten by the Pistons.

Of course, after that happened Shaq moved on and won another ring, while Kobe hasn't made it out of the first round since.

shaq won another ring, of course, but ur implying that he'd have lost weight and got himself in as a good condition as he was his first year with the heat.

I don't believe he would have, adn neither did the lakers. He ignored phils and kobe when they told him to get in shape each of the two summers before.



Comments like this are not only devoid of readable English, but they have absolutely no basis in reality.

if my statment is "devoid readable english" than how the fuck do u come up with a fucking response genius? ur statment is, however, devoid of any logic


Stating Shaq wasn't important to the title is... well... if you don't realize how stupid that sounds, I can't help you.

i said puzzle, not title. and he was getting to be increasingly less and less of factor each of his last to years in La.

the point is they couldn't coexist and ur at fault for blaming only kobe. which is wrong. ur judging who he is and how he'd be able to coexist with someone witht the spurs based on a situation that was caused and exacerbated by someone else, snaq.

stephen jackson was a good guy while he was down here becasuse he was surrounded by good people...but once met up with ron artes in indiana he was a fucking animal.

so what ur saying is this: Kobe is this, and he'll always be this regardless of who is around him. i have a hard time belieiving he'd be a disruption with good guys around him.

[ynh]

Oh for the love of God. Do you really need this question answered? Kobe and Shaq are both players with heavy PR concerns. They had to be discreet about the situation anyway. Are you that blind to the way Shaq and Kobe verbally sparred for years? Of course they knew the situation. However, only one of us (apparently) takes players on their word as a biblical oath of truth.

Ok so Shaq and Kobe hate eachother.. yet Shaq has the chance to throw Kobe under the buss but throw buss under the buss? Makes lots of sense. And you think the Lakers don't have bigger PR concerns or an easier time masking any concerns they have from the press?



While there were likely multiple factors involved in the movement of Shaq to Miami, I think the primary reasons were money and Kobe, probably equally.

I see your backtracking.. If you belived that money was equally part of the issue why would you say this to state your case


Yeah, you're right. You know more about the Lakers than Magic Johnson, whom I've just quoted on the last page doing little else but saying that it was all Kobe's fault.



Perhaps you'd have far fewer posts if you asked relevant questions instead of trying to make inconsequential points and cherry pick the parts of other posts that agree with you.

Im just having fun seeing how far I can get you to backtrack before you actually say you were wrong.

[ArgSpursFan.]

Manu has won things without Duncan(The olympics)and led his team to victory,and was the Olympics MVP
What Did Kobe win without Shaq??


Never mind.

[Cry Havoc]

Makes lots of sense. And you think the Lakers don't have bigger PR concerns or an easier time masking any concerns they have from the press?

I see your backtracking.. If you belived that money was equally part of the issue why would you say this to state your case

Im just having fun seeing how far I can get you to backtrack before you actually say you were wrong.

i haven't backtracked on a single thing. Money is ALWAYS a reason why a player is not resigned or traded. Stating a player got moved because of money doesn't make you a genius, it just makes you a person with a knack for saying the obvious. You are, however, pretending that it was 100% money and 0% Kobe. Not even LAKERS fans will agree with you on that, as Med has already stated that it wasn't the case earlier in this thread. Which you ignored quite beautifully and congratulated yourself because you seem to think he agreed with you 100%.

Kobe ran Shaq out of town. Pure and simple. Phil said it, Magic said it, and it's hard to believe you just "neglect" to remember the hundreds of little squabbles and disputes between the two. So what if Shaq was partially at fault, too? Kobe was a hog. He's a shitty teammate and you don't need to look much further than 81 points to see who he thinks is the most important person in the universe.

Have you noticed all the brawls and fights Shaq and Wade have been in? Remember when Shaq choke slammed Wade for hogging the shots? Oh. That's right, it didn't happen.




Ok so Shaq and Kobe hate eachother.. yet Shaq has the chance to throw Kobe under the buss but throw buss under the buss?

... what?

[ynh]

Sure. You stated that Shaq was horrible after the HOF Lakers were beaten by the Pistons.

Of course, after that happened Shaq moved on and won another ring, while Kobe hasn't made it out of the first round since.

Shaq was a shell of his former self during those runs. His playoff averages were 19/8 the year after and 18/9 the year they won the championship and thats for someone that had playoff career averages of 26 and 12.. so while he wasn't horrible he was very much on the decline and anyone that watched the year they won the championship would tell you the refs and wade had more to do with the championship then shaq.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

this thread has been taken into a different direction not originally intended...why people (an di got trapped in it) are debating the shaq thing is beyond me because it doesn't even pertain to the fucking question.

the question is would you trade manu for kobe..not who fucked the lakers in the ass shaq or kobe?

[Cry Havoc]

if my statment is "devoid readable english" than how the fuck do u come up with a fucking response genius? ur statment is, however, devoid of any logic

Hilarious. Not only do you seem to be incapable of typing complete sentences, you fail to grasp simple hyperbole. There there. Lots of people share that difficulty.


i said puzzle, not title. and he was getting to be increasingly less and less of factor each of his last to years in La.

the point is they couldn't coexist and ur at fault for blaming only kobe. which is wrong. ur judging who he is and how he'd be able to coexist with someone witht the spurs based on a situation that was caused and exacerbated by someone else, snaq.

Sure, Shaq was partially at fault too. I never stated that Kobe was solely responsible. However, Shaq has never had a history of conflicting with his teammates like Kobe. Shaq has prospered in Miami, won a title, and he and Wade get along just fine. Kobe is the one who couldn't stand to have another star on his court with him, and now he's bitching because his team sucks. I mean, seriously, are you guys THAT blind that you can't see a superstar with a massive ego problem?


stephen jackson was a good guy while he was down here becasuse he was surrounded by good people...but once met up with ron artes in indiana he was a fucking animal.

so what ur saying is this: Kobe is this, and he'll always be this regardless of who is around him. i have a hard time belieiving he'd be a disruption with good guys around him.

This is a valid point. Kobe could prosper in San Antonio because of the people around him. It might turn into a Randy Moss type situation. However, with Manu exploding and becoming one of the absolute best guards in the league so far this year, would you REALLY want to risk the entire chemistry of the team? This team that walked through the playoffs last year and looks better and deeper? Why would you want to emotionally upset the players like that? If it worked the Spurs might be the best team in NBA history, but what if it fails? What if Kobe has a couple of bad games in the playoffs and the Spurs lose in 7 to the Jazz or 6 to the Celtics? What if he goes down with an injury? What if Kobe hates it in SA and starts tanking games? It would be a public relations nightmare.

It might work great in NBA 2k7, but Manu has friends in San Antonio. The players and fans love him. Shipping him to LA would be absolutely devastating to the makeup of the team. Not only are they used to him and his playing style, just on a personnel level it would completely change the mood of practices, training, and games. Yes, NBA players are supposed to be professional about that type of thing, but they're human as well.

[Cry Havoc]

this thread has been taken into a different direction not originally intended...why people (an di got trapped in it) are debating the shaq thing is beyond me because it doesn't even pertain to the fucking question.


It absolutely has everything to do with the thread topic. Kobe is a shitty teammate who cannot tolerate another star on his team, and therefore is a huge risk to trade for on a team like the Spurs. It's very, very fucking simple.

[Cry Havoc]

Shaq was a shell of his former self during those runs. His playoff averages were 19/8 the year after and 18/9 the year they won the championship and thats for someone that had playoff career averages of 26 and 12.. so while he wasn't horrible he was very much on the decline and anyone that watched the year they won the championship would tell you the refs and wade had more to do with the championship then shaq.

See! Hard evidence. That's what I like to see. I can respond to that. Shaq obviously wasn't as dominant as he was in LA, but a lot of that is because Wade was absolutely lethal in the playoffs last year, and considered the best player in the league at the time. And while it's funny to note that guards Shaq has teamed up with have historically detonated in the post-season, it also bears merit that Kobe would very likely KILL to have a guy who would average close to 20-10 numbers this year. Not to mention that until this year teams have been scared to death to go into the lane against Shaq. That's irony for ya.Not

[ynh]

i haven't backtracked on a single thing. Money is ALWAYS a reason why a player is not resigned or traded. Stating a player got moved because of money doesn't make you a genius, it just makes you a person with a knack for saying the obvious. You are, however, pretending that it was 100% money and 0% Kobe. Not even LAKERS fans will agree with you on that, as Med has already stated that it wasn't the case earlier in this thread. Which you ignored quite beautifully and congratulated yourself because you seem to think he agreed with you 100%.

Kobe ran Shaq out of town. Pure and simple. Phil said it, Magic said it, and it's hard to believe you just "neglect" to remember the hundreds of little squabbles and disputes between the two. So what if Shaq was partially at fault, too? Kobe was a hog. He's a shitty teammate and you don't need to look much further than 81 points to see who he thinks is the most important person in the universe.

Have you noticed all the brawls and fights Shaq and Wade have been in? Remember when Shaq choke slammed Wade for hogging the shots? Oh. That's right, it didn't happen.

Ahhh.. once again from the article that you refuse to read or can't read and comprehend.

"'Kobe, I am not going to re-sign Shaq. I am not about to pay him $30 million a year or $80 million over three years. No way in hell. I feel like he's getting older. His body is breaking down, and I don't want to pay that money to him when I can get value for him right now rather than wait.

"This is my decision. It's independent of you. My mind is made up. It doesn't matter to me what you do in free agency because I do not want to pay [Shaq], period.'"


Would your lazy as please read it now?





... what?

Seriously can you not even follow your own bable? Go back and reread your shit..

[Medvedenko]

Cry Havoc....I appreciate your candor. That's all I have to say on this manner. Using per 48 min stats is pointless as I can place Bynum as the best centre in the league. Manu is playing out of his mind, however he has 3 allstar caliber players to play with with arguebly the best coach and system in the L. I've been saying Manu should be able to play like he is now every year....good for him.

[Cry Havoc]

Ahhh.. once again from the article that you refuse to read or can't read and comprehend.

"'Kobe, I am not going to re-sign Shaq. I am not about to pay him $30 million a year or $80 million over three years. No way in hell. I feel like he's getting older. His body is breaking down, and I don't want to pay that money to him when I can get value for him right now rather than wait.

"This is my decision. It's independent of you. My mind is made up. It doesn't matter to me what you do in free agency because I do not want to pay [Shaq], period.'"


Would your lazy as please read it now?

Sure, I can read that. I take that to mean, "Kobe, I know you ran Shaq out of town, I know you want to be the man, and I basically have to choose you or him. Now despite the fact that he's going to win a title exactly one year after we trade him, he's completely 'washed up', and you have to be the only alpha male in LA, so we're going with you because you're younger.

This is my decision. I am making it appear all my responsibility because if I blamed you publicly, the entire Staples center would be calling for your head. As it is, the rich, fair-weather fans who have far too much time and money will be perfectly happy watching you put up incredible individual efforts without winning a title. Because I really have no choice, as you are both being bitches about the situation and I'm a cheap ass."

Are you really so homeristic about Kobe that you are going to completely dismiss that politics was a factor in this? Do you care to even attempt to explain why Magic said what he said about Kobe? Magic had ZERO motive to state what he did on national TV, and he said it anyway. There are dozens of reasons for why Buss said what he did to Kobe. Saving the fanbase, appealing to his only remaining star, attempting to alleviate Kobe of blame, and yes, saving money. Once again, I'm not the one here who's pretending that Kobe is 100% free of blame. But feel free to stick your head in the sand some more.



Seriously can you not even follow your own bable? Go back and reread your shit..

Please, for the love of god, tell me what this means.

"Ok so Shaq and Kobe hate eachother.. yet Shaq has the chance to throw Kobe under the buss but throw buss under the buss? Makes lots of sense. And you think the Lakers don't have bigger PR concerns or an easier time masking any concerns they have from the press?"

[ynh]

the question is would you trade manu for kobe..not who fucked the lakers in the ass shaq or kobe?

The reason this is be debated is because the only justifiable reason some give for not taking kobe is the beif that he is a bad teamate and ran shaq out of town.. thus would do the same thing in San An and run Duncan out of town.

[Cry Havoc]

Cry Havoc....I appreciate your candor. That's all I have to say on this manner. Using per 48 min stats is pointless as I can place Bynum as the best centre in the league. Manu is playing out of his mind, however he has 3 allstar caliber players to play with with arguebly the best coach and system in the L. I've been saying Manu should be able to play like he is now every year....good for him.

I also wonder if he can keep up this pace. If he does, and the Spurs stay healthy, they are unbeatable. Even if he doesn't though, he fits in. Manu averaging 18/5/5 per game will be enough in the playoffs to make another deep run, I think. Plus, Spurs fans love Manu, and it could also be argued that with lesser teammates, his stats would be even more insane. I mean, it's not like he's pulling 3s out of his ass. Look at his insane collection of plays this year. The man has skill.

[ynh]

Ok.. to cut it down even more for those ( or the ) poster that is riding the short bus to school

This is my decision. It's independent of you. My mind is made up. It doesn't matter to me what you do in free agency because I do not want to pay [Shaq], period

[Cry Havoc]

Ok.. to cut it down even more for those ( or the ) poster that is riding the short bus to school

I don't want you to take all the heat for running the most dominant NBA center in decades out of town, so I will take the blame because it -might- benefit our team in the long run.

Get my point, yet?

[ynh]

Get my point, yet?

Oh wow you quoted yourself as a source! Thats gotta be a new low.

[Rummpd]

The bottom line is that on talent Bryant is slightly better and both have incredible drive and that "special something". Bryant when he wants to be can be a better defender than Manu but Manu is also pretty darn good.

Manu on many teams could average 25 points per game although one wonders if he could take the pounding of being the go to guy every night.

However, if Bryant came with the same contract, even with my love for Manu and all the passion and energy he brings + Manu's own considerable skill one - I would sadly have to grab Bryant and ship Manu to the Lakers (where he would prosper). Duncan and Bryant potentially could be the best duo the NBA has ever seen as Duncan with his unselfish play and Shaq like interior dominance + defensive intensity would be unreal. Duncan + Bryant + Parker = no coach = could ever pass up that trio taking in the equation Bryant has expressed support for Popovich in the past.

[ynh]

Your completely ignoring the fact that Shaq said himself that what kobe said was true.. Shaq.. who hates Kobe.. said it was true. Thats what you couldn't understand from my last post.. not that I'd expect you to understand it cause it pretty much destroys your attempt at killing the creditablity of the article.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

However, Shaq has never had a history of conflicting with his teammates like Kobe.

ever heard of penny hardaway?


Shaq has prospered in Miami, won a title, and he and Wade get along just fine.

shaq has prospered (not is prospering) in miami because he took it upon himself to do two things, both of which he didn't do in L.A. when he should have:

he lost weight and he relegated his role to be complimentary player.


However, with Manu exploding and becoming one of the absolute best guards in the league so far this year, would you REALLY want to risk the entire chemistry of the team?

And ur favoring ginobili's stats, which have been great so far this year, to kobe's career stats which are mind-boggling.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Yes. In a heart beat.

A better question:

Howard for TD.

[Medvedenko]

The bottom line is that on talent Bryant is slightly better and both have incredible drive and that "special something". Bryant when he wants to be can be a better defender than Manu but Manu is also pretty darn good.

Manu on many teams could average 25 points per game although one wonders if he could take the pounding of being the go to guy every night.

However, if Bryant came with the same contract, even with my love for Manu and all the passion and energy he brings + Manu's own considerable skill one - I would sadly have to grab Bryant and ship Manu to the Lakers (where he would prosper). Duncan and Bryant potentially could be the best duo the NBA has ever seen as Duncan with his unselfish play and Shaq like interior dominance + defensive intensity would be unreal. Duncan + Bryant + Parker = no coach = could ever pass up that trio taking in the equation Bryant has expressed support for Popovich in the past.

Well said Rummpd....well said...it would be too scary for both TD, Parker and Kobe for the league....especially with the other guys on your team, like Barry, Finley, Horry, and Bonner....it would be sick.

[LakeShow]

If they had the same contract, you'd be a fool not to.

Ditto!

[ArgSpursFan.]

Well said Rummpd....well said...it would be too scary for both TD, Parker and Kobe for the league....especially with the other guys on your team, like Barry, Finley, Horry, and Bonner....it would be sick.

It's funny how fast you show up as soon as somebody says something agreeing( in part) with your arguments. :lol

[Ronaldo McDonald]

It absolutely has everything to do with the thread topic. Kobe is a shitty teammate who cannot tolerate a lazy and selfish star on his team, and therefore is a huge risk to trade for on a team like the Spurs. It's very, very fucking simple.

do u see the oxymoron of what u (should have) said?

[jay014]

http://www.thelakerssuck.com/images/crying2.jpg

[TradeParker4Nash]

would you trade manu for kobe straight up

Yes.

[ArgSpursFan.]

Yes.

I guess it's not just your username based on stupidity.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Yes.

OMG!