Darius Washington's Triple Double powers Toros to win

[Darkwaters]

39 Min, 26 pts (8-21 FG, 1-3 3pt, 9-13 FT), 10 Rbds, 10 Assts, 2 Stls

Box Score: http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20071208/TULAUS/boxscore.html

...meanwhile, Dallas' Nick Fazekas also played and had a nice game as well (18 pts, 12 rbds, 7 assts).

[FirebatMIV]

Ian fouled out again with 8+ mins in the 4th and finished with a 12pts, 6 boards, 1 Block line, everyone on the frontline was in foul trouble (61 fouls called in the game, Bennett Salvatore would be proud).

Marcus Williams had 17, including an important 7 pts when the Toros were trailing in the 4th.

[Mr. Body]

Washington was up against better competition this week... Ramon Sessions, who previously won NBDL Player of the Week honors, and was outplayed.

[Darkwaters]

Sessions still had a good game though. 25 pts, 3 rbds, 6 assts isn't a bad line at all. Plus he had 17 FTs (probably mostly a result of of hacking bigs like Ian). But Washington definitely had the upperhand at the end of the day.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, didn't mean to suggest Sessions was poor. But Washington outplayed, other than the TOs and perhaps shooting blips. One thing that's clear is Washington looks to be a very solid rebounder for a point guard.

[Darkwaters]

One thing that's clear is Washington looks to be a very solid rebounder for a point guard.

Never a bad thing, and definitely a plus on this team especially. We could always use rebounding. I was thinking about it today as I was rewatching the Jazz game...Washington might not be a bad matchup for Deron Williams. Hes a bigger stronger player than either Parker or Vaughn and he might be able to slow him down. Now, I still anticipate that Williams would win that battle, but D-Will vs. D-Wash might be a fun matchup in a few years if he develops as we hope.

[timvp]

Sessions might be the best point guard in the D-League. I watched him in summer league and he's pretty good. He reminds me of a smaller Earl Watson with more playmaking ability.

Washington is just a beast. He's gotten much stronger since he came out of Memphis and he uses that added to strength to his advantage. Since he's only 21, he should continue to fill out.

Pop is too much in love with Vaughn for Washington to crack the rotation this year, but going forward he has the potential to be a good rotational player.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm probably a little overly critical of Darius lately because I see him as Tony's future backup for a long time to come. That said, he has got to cut down on the turnovers before he takes the reins from Vaughn. A couple of them tonight were carrying calls that may have been a result of a particularly whistle-happy ref crew, but they could have been called in the NBA as well. His other TOs came from forcing passes where they didn't need to go. Tulsa is a nicely disciplined defensive team, so the Toros weren't able to get away with quite as much as they were against Sioux Falls and Colorado. This was reflected in the substantially lower FG% numbers for Washington, Keith Langford and DerMarr Johnson. Overall, however, I can only be excited about Washington's future as a Spur. Like LJ said, he is a very good rebounder for a point guard and his play on both sides of the court can be inspiring. He wasn't matched up directly with Sessions the entire game, but when he was he did just fine.

Other thoughts:

It was another week of roster/rotation upheaval for the Toros, and it proved to be more problematic this time around. There is an embarrassment of talent on the Toros, and two more players had to be integrated into the rotation. Cheyne Gadson is now the first guard off the bench, initially replacing Langford then sliding over to the point when Darius took a rest. He didn't do much of anything in his 14 minutes, but he just got here and this is not the same Toros team he played with last season. Look for more from him next week.

The other "new" player was the finally healthy Eric Dawson, who started out taking Anthony Fuqua's role backing up Pittsnogle and Mahinmi. He isn't really in game shape, but his athleticism is apparent. He had three blocks; a couple of them occurred so quickly on the shooters' upstroke I was worried the stat crew wouldn't count them. He's also very active on defense. He could probably stand to gain some strength and bulk on his frame, but's easy to see why the Toros were willing to wait for Dawson to heal up.

Ian continues to frustrate with his fouls, but in his defense the officiating was pretty bad in the second half where he picked up four fouls. His baby hook shot continues to be money, and he has a really devastating first step that needs to be exploited. No progress on the rebound positioning; he should have an easier time against the weaker frontline of the RGV Vipers Tuesday.

Williams started in place of Justin Bowen, and is proving to be a pretty solid player. For the most part he outplayed former Wizard Mike Hall when they were matched up, doing a better job and showing a more complete game than DerMarr Johnson this time around. Hall burned Marcus off the dribble once, but Williams didn't let it get to him. He ended up 1-4 outside the arc but 7-10 inside it. He tried to do to much with the ball on occasion, but he is no longer the clueless player we saw in summer league.

Bowen played effectively off the bench and in critical parts of the game, hitting a big three pointer and getting a big steal while simultaneously turning his ankle. Hopping on one foot led to his only turnover, and he finished the game on the bench in ice and bandages.

Fuqua was called to action late when Ian fouled out and Pittsnogle threatened to. He started out rough with a three second violation and personal foul in about five seconds, but calmed down and contributed well enough where coach Snyder was subbing him out for Pittsnogle for defensive purposes an crunch time.

Pittsnogle is not really playing at a level deserving of the 25-30 minutes a game he has been receiving. There is only so much value in his spreading the floor on offense, especially when he isn't hitting from the outside. With the arrival of Dawson in the big man rotation and the presence of three small ball power forwards on the team, Kevin really has to start showing a little more than one dimension out on the floor.

Langford was his usual self, though he was defended better than he has been most of the season. His 20+ points per game can almost be taken for granted now. Kenton Paulino played very little but had three clutch free throws after he was fouled outside the arc. Squeaky Johnson was the only Toro who did not play.

[SKINNYPIMP210]

D Wash Baby! I Hope We Keep Him Around For A Long Time. Glad To See He's Doing Good In Development League.

[timvp]

Thanks for the write up. It's good to see Williams doing at least halfway decent. However, I have to wonder if he realizes that there's virtually no chance of him being called up to the Spurs this year. I'm sure he'd be on the first plane out of town if another NBA team comes calling but I don't see that happening. If he plays all season in Austin while showing enough talent and then plays for the Spurs summer league team and improves, I don't see why he wouldn't be invited to training camp next season. I'd still rate him as a long shot to ever make the Spurs but at least he's paying his dues. He could have pulled a Chris Carrawell and quit basketball for a couple years after getting cut.

I haven't seen a Mahinmi play yet with the Toros but I've been underwhelmed by his stats. I thought he'd be pulling down more rebounds and getting more blocks. He is scoring better than I thought he would, which is nice.

Couple questions:

By my calculations, there was about 20 minutes of small ball. Was it Marcus Williams at the 4? That'd make sense seeing as that's where he played a lot at Arizona.

Do you think there will be any more roster moves? With the way the roster is setup now, it looks like they are preparing for Darius to be called up. They have a point guard heavy team -- I count five out of the 12 players being point guards on the NBA level. It doesn't look like Darius is going to get called up but with the way that roster is constructed, maybe the Spurs are thinking about bringing him back to the big leagues.

Oh and are you going to the RGV game?

Thanks :)

[whottt]

I haven't seen a Mahinmi play yet with the Toros but I've been underwhelmed by his stats. I thought he'd be pulling down more rebounds and getting more blocks. He is scoring better than I thought he would, which is nice.

Ian:

26 MPG
13.8 PPG
6.2 RPG
%632 FG%

5.00 PFPG :wow



His stats looking pretty nice to me for 26 MPG...


Those fouls are insane though....they're why he's only getting 26MPG.

What he's doing to get them...that's what's important.


The fact that he is showing signs of having a nice offensive game is extremely exciting to me. He continues to get to the FT line at a nice clip.


His rebounding and his shotblocking will come...those were the strongest parts of his game till he got to the D-league.

It does take guys time to adjust to their bodies when they have a late growth spurt sometimes. He didn't get much PT during his last one...

[timvp]

Well, per minute Mahinmi is averaging less rebounds in the D-League than Oberto or Elson are averaging in the NBA. That's not the greatest of signs. But like ChumpDumper has noted on several occasions, Mahinmi doesn't really have any natural instincts when it comes to rebounds. He tries to use just his athleticism to get by. He'll have to learn how to actually rebound.

His foul problem is a little worrisome. Since he was first noted as being foul prone, he just keeps getting worse. Now this game he freakin' fouls out in less than 20 minutes :lol

I know the Spurs' staff doesn't think it's a laughing matter though because when Buford and Newman talked about his game in the offseason, the first thing they both said was he has to learn not to foul. I know d-league refs are whistle happy but there has to be some adjusting on Mahinmi's part. Instead, the problem keeps being more and more apparent.

[ChumpDumper]

By my calculations, there was about 20 minutes of small ball. Was it Marcus Williams at the 4? That'd make sense seeing as that's where he played a lot at Arizona.There were a ton of substitutions tonight reflecting the roster flux, so it was hard to keep track at times. DerMarr Johnson and Williams seemed to split time at small ball PF about evenly. Tulsa stayed with a pretty conventional lineup all night; the only thing they are really lacking is a volume scoring guard -- they had two last season. It may be awhile for the Toros before a rotation is settled upon, and the foul trouble and sometime ineffectiveness of the starting bigs won't help that.


Do you think there will be any more roster moves? With the way the roster is setup now, it looks like they are preparing for Darius to be called up. They have a point guard heavy team -- I count five out of the 12 players being point guards on the NBA level. It doesn't look like Darius is going to get called up but with the way that roster is constructed, maybe the Spurs are thinking about bringing him back to the big leagues.That is a possibility, but I can't see the Spurs being so satisfied with Washington's play that he's a lock to be called up. His assist to turnover ratio is pretty bad in the D-League and probably would be worse in the NBA. Picking up Gadson was kind of a no-brainer since he can play two positions and his previous stats automatically made him the third best small guard on the team. I don't think there is an imminent plan to call up Darius, but Parker's ankle problems probably got all parties concerned thinking what would be the best scenario for both the Spurs and Toros in the event Darius needed to be called up if Parker or Vaughn had to miss some games.

I almost forgot. Tony and Eva were in attendance for the first half of the game tonight. We entered the convention hall at the same time. Tony looked uncomfortable, like he was worried they might get mobbed by all the people waiting to get in. Eva seemed less concerned and was very friendly to us.

And yes, I am planning on going to the RGV game.

[ChumpDumper]

Do you think there will be any more roster moves?To expand on this a little, I forgot where I saw it but I'm pretty sure D-League teams are limited to acquiring ten players by whatever means during the course of the season. Given the possibilities of player call ups and injuries in the coming months, I doubt the Toros would want to use any more of their allotment unless somebody pretty special (to them) became available. Even without the assignees, this is a pretty nice team for a diluted D-League.

[timvp]

I almost forgot. Tony and Eva were in attendance for the first half of the game tonight. We entered the convention hall at the same time. Tony looked uncomfortable, like he was worried they might get mobbed by all the people waiting to get in. Eva seemed less concerned and was very friendly to us.That's cool of Tony to be supporting the D-League players. Had to be a good boost for the players seeing that they aren't forgotten.


And yes, I am planning on going to the RGV game.Nice.

:hat

[ChumpDumper]

That's cool of Tony to be supporting the D-League players. Had to be a good boost for the players seeing that they aren't forgotten.True enough. There are almost always two or three people from the Spurs organization proper at the games in addition to guys who pull double duty on both teams like Dell Demps. It's no afterthought for the Spurs, that's for sure.


Nice.

:hatYeah, I'll get to see both D-League and CBA games again. We'll see if anyone remembers the Silverados are still around.

[fred33]

why tony was at the game? A PRESENTATION AT HALFTIME?

[ChumpDumper]

why tony was at the game? A PRESENTATION AT HALFTIME?Nope. Just stopping by. Folks from the Spurs usually sit in the same section every game, so they are easy to find.

[fred33]

You Have Pix?

[ChumpDumper]

No. I didn't bring a camera this time.

[fred33]

Is He Limping?

[ChumpDumper]

Looked like he was walking ok.

[mattyc]

Air DWash.

[JPB]

Torostalk.com forum !

Thanks Chump for the write up. Nice to have Mahinmi updates.


I haven't seen a Mahinmi play yet with the Toros but I've been underwhelmed by his stats. I thought he'd be pulling down more rebounds and getting more blocks. He is scoring better than I thought he would, which is nice.

I think Mahinmi is still learning BB. He never was a starter or a second or even third option in his previous teams. He showed promising things so far. With some more time, he'll feel more comfortable.

He has to adapt to US BB which is more complicated for a big man than a guard. It recquires more time for a big to develop and reach his maturity.

The annoying thing is that, although playing in Austin allows him to have more PT, he hasn't veteran NBA bigs around him (like Horry, Duncan, Oberto) to mentor him and show him all the little things. Just training with them, watch their game, their behaviour is a big part of a learning process for rookies in NBA.

[angel_luv]

Way to go DW! :)

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Nice. :tu

[BeerIsGood!]

That Mahinmi foul problem can be a double edged sword for the coaching staff to handle, because you want him to make an adjustment or two to limit his fouls but don't want him to start playing soft. I'm more encouraged by his aggressiveness and think if the coaching staff doesn't get over zealous by pounding the fouls issue in his brain that he'll eventually play his way into a smarter game with experience. Just keep stressing the fundamental elements of the game and see how he takes to learning to apply them.

[fred33]

That Mahinmi foul problem can be a double edged sword for the coaching staff to handle, because you want him to make an adjustment or two to limit his fouls but don't want him to start playing soft. I'm more encouraged by his aggressiveness and think if the coaching staff doesn't get over zealous by pounding the fouls issue in his brain that he'll eventually play his way into a smarter game with experience. Just keep stressing the fundamental elements of the game and see how he takes to learning to apply them.


no pics of tony at the game?

[urunobili]

please some of you experts tell me he'll be with us forever!!!!

[thiste]

I think it's pretty bold to start seeing patterns & draw conclusions about Mahinmi after only 5 games. Well the foul problem is pretty obvious I'll give you that, but other than that I don't think his scoring / rebound / block averages are meaningful yet.
It's not like if he was an american coming straight out of college. He's young and has just arrived in an environment that is totally foreign to him, he doesn't quite know the language yet, the US ways of BB, the coach, the system... in short, he has a lot to accustom to.
Besides, I see it as a great sign of confidence that he was able to score 22 on 10/12 on his fourth game. Ok it's not the NBA but it still indicates to me that he's confident.

And by the way, he has all the time in the world to learn the ropes of NBA play imho, I mean, not only big men take longer to adapt as somebody said earlier, their prime is also later in age (30s). So you're looking at about ten years from now for Ian to be fully operational.

It's nice to see Parker go to a Toros game, I'm sure he's taken Ian under his wing to make his adaptation easier. And I hope he gets to practice with the big guys sometimes as it's true that to get playing time is great but to learn from the best is great too. I hope he can combine the two.

[Darkwaters]

And by the way, he has all the time in the world to learn the ropes of NBA play imho, I mean, not only big men take longer to adapt as somebody said earlier, their prime is also later in age (30s). So you're looking at about ten years from now for Ian to be fully operational.


How do you figure that? You can't make a blanket statement like "Bigs primes are later than other players". You have to look at the specific player. Players that rely on quickness (a la, Parker) or athleticism (Mahinmi) to power their best skills will have an earlier prime. As their body slows down their abilities will decline. They have to adapt to remain competitive (similar to how Manu is changing into less of a slasher and more of a shooter). Meanwhile, players like Duncan and Oberto that rely more on BBIQ, solid fundamental play and the likes will likely have a longer prime because the decline of their physical abilities will not devastate their output on the court.

What type of player is Mahinmi? An athlete trying to play basketball, or a basketball player hoping hes athletic enough to play?

You can't tell me that you think a player like Amare Stoudemire will be THAT much better when hes 32 and "in his prime". His athleticism will have whittled down over time (as well as his knee) and he will lack even more explosion. Unless he changes his game, he will be less effective.

[mystargtr34]

The foul trouble is obviously a concern... but Ian strikes me as the type of jumping jack type guy who can come in and give u a solid 20-25 minutes a night. I think he will really exceed Spurs expectations if he becomes a starter in this league.

[thiste]

I stand by it. Imho big men have their prime around or after 30.

David : MVP at 29, titles at 33 & 37.
Hakeem : MVP at 31, titles at 31 & 32
Jabbar : 5 of his 6 titles after 32
Shaq : his lakers titles between 28 & 30, the heat one at 34
Wilt : 3 of his 4 NBA MVP titles between 29 & 31, titles at 30 & 35
Tim : 3 of his 4 titles between 27 & 31

You can body your way to dominance as a young like Amaré, Dwight or young Shaq, but experience is key as a center.

[Darkwaters]

I stand by it. Imho big men have their prime around or after 30.

David : MVP at 29, titles at 33 & 37.
Hakeem : MVP at 31, titles at 31 & 32
Jabbar : 5 of his 6 titles after 32
Shaq : his lakers titles between 28 & 30, the heat one at 34
Wilt : 3 of his 4 NBA MVP titles between 29 & 31, titles at 30 & 35
Tim : 3 of his 4 titles between 27 & 31

You can body your way to dominance as a young like Amaré, Dwight or young Shaq, but experience is key as a center.

You said that Centers primes came in their 30's. Ok...

David's titles when he was 33 and 37 his role was reduced from his previous MVP seasons (especially the second one). His back was giving him serious problems and his effectiveness was limited more and more often as a result. Hardly what I would call his "prime". Meanwhile, his MVP came before the age of 30.

Duncan won 3 of his 4 titles between 27 and 31...but only one of those came after the age of 30. And for that final matchup he WAS NOT finals MVP where he had been everytime previously...he always mustered a finals MVP performance when he was in his 20's...even with the "primed" Robinson sharing the court with him twice.

Shaq won titles in his late 20's and one when he was 30 with the Lakers. That still doesn't add to your idea that in their 30's they get better. Especially when you consider that the title at 34 for Shaq was the Miami one where he was stricly a role player. He played limited minutes and relied purely on Wade to win...he was NOT the driving force behind it. Rather, Dallas' often phantom fouls on Wade were.

Frankly, I know different players seem to hit their strides at different times. But your own evidence seems to indicate that the mid 20's to early 30's are the prime of a big. NOT starting in the early 30's and moving forward.

[BonnerDynasty]

Insert Kareem evidence here.

[MoSpur]

D-Wash surprised me the first time I saw him play. He makes it an effort to chase rebounds and I like that. Hope he improves on his turnovers though.

[thiste]

Yeah I said thirties as a general rule, Duncan & Shaq have been in their prime in their late twenties even if I don't think it's necessarily true for Tim. Imho Tim could be in his prime right now (stat wise) if he wanted to. He's just so great a character that he made room for the others.

By the way David turned 30 two months after his mvp season.

What I meant was, I really think Ian will hit his prime no sooner than 10 years from now, even if he'll probably turn out to be effective earlier. We should be patient and give him time to grow into the player we all want him to become.

[FirebatMIV]

Darius Washington with 29 pts, 5 boards and 4 assists vs. the Vipers tonight. He was matched against Rockets 2007 1st round pick Aaron Brooks, who fouled out, but did have 22 pts, 7 boards and 6 assists.

Ian fouled out, but two of those were clean blocks.

[remingtonbo2001]

Yeah I said thirties as a general rule, Duncan & Shaq have been in their prime in their late twenties even if I don't think it's necessarily true for Tim. Imho Tim could be in his prime right now (stat wise) if he wanted to. He's just so great a character that he made room for the others.

By the way David turned 30 two months after his mvp season.

What I meant was, I really think Ian will hit his prime no sooner than 10 years from now, even if he'll probably turn out to be effective earlier. We should be patient and give him time to grow into the player we all want him to become.

David had a little less wear and tear at 30. Remember, he sat out 2yrs for to meet Navy requirments.

HOWEVER, Tim relies more on IQ than athleticism, so yeah, he could be starting his prime. With new medical advances it's possible to see Tim play till he's 40. Granted I'm not sure if that's in his plans. Maybe?

[koopa]

wtf is wrong with the refs in the d league?? ian is gonna be averaging 6 fouls a game with this poor officiating