Parker WILL be the best PG in 2 years

[duncan2k5]

because jason kidd will be a non factor. and nash will be not as good(I sincerely hope). tony is killin now. he will be the reason we win tonight.

[Sense]

because jason kidd will be a non factor. and nash will be not as good(I sincerely hope). tony is killin now. he will be the reason we win tonight.


Have to disagree with ya man. As long as Tim Duncan is with the Spurs, (which everyone hopes is forever) tony parker will be top 5.

The thing with today is... people are more interested in numbers when it comes to ranks.

Marbury, Iverson, or one of those ball mongers will get it for the points...not because the team is losing.

[Manu20]

Right now Parker is already top 5. In a few years he will be the best PG in the NBA.

[boutons]

Tony has to be ruthless, relentless with probing and penetrating. If PHX stops his and Manu's penetrations, Spurs will be in trouble. And Beno will have to pick up his penetration game a notch, too.

Likewise, as PopShow said, Spurs have to stop Nash from returning the favor.

Spurs have not done very well in stopping penetrations of Steve Francis or Ricky Davis. I think the Spurs have been giving up too many points in the paint. Like those two guards, Nash has a little pullup jumper and short-range fadeway.

[duncan2k5]

yea but they wont be winners. tony will be a winner. he will average close to 20 points a game, at least 7 assists. you'll see. he will also be one of those players you go into a game with a defensive plan for them.

[duncan2k5]

LjIII
We Need You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[boutons]

"you go into a game with a defensive plan for them"

The Lakers last season ALREADY had an effective plan for Tony, and Spurs/coaching choked. I doubt d'Antoni is planning to let Tony run wild any more than Pop plans to let Nash run wild.

[duncan2k5]

yea but they wont be able to stop parker

[Autumnleaf]

he will, at least i wish and pray he will:)

[ducks]

tinsley and wade are his only competion

everyone else is old

[T Park]

tinsley

Jamall Tinsley aint even in the same league.

Chauncey Billups and Dwayne Wade are the only ones Id say that are better.

[adidas11]

Hmmm...where have we heard this before?

I'll wait until Tony Parker actually makes a few all star games before annointing (spelling?) him as a Top 5 point guard.

But as of right now, Tony Parker is on fire. He's carrying the Spurs at the moment. Well done.

[ducks]

adidas who right not will be in the top 5 point guard in 2 years
marbarry, nash,ai,gp, kidd,steve will be done

[ducks]

right now the coach for the suns(assuming he is coach of all star team)might pick tp after what he did to his suns and nash

[duncan2k5]

told y'all. i know i made a thread but i find it important to boast. im so happy!!!!!!!!!! i think i might have soiled my pants :oops

[Supergirl]

this game really put the Suns in their place. They may have the best record, but they ain't the best team. The Spurs didn't just win, they TROUNCED the Suns. A humiliating defeat for the Suns.

[usckk]

Who cares if Parker is not an All-Star. That means absolutely nothing. Players get voted in, so it doesn't mean that the best players are in it. Because the Spurs are not popular, no many people vote for Parker. Believe me Parker is up there at the top.

[sickdsm]

I hate to agree with a laker fan but outside of SA everyone has that same opinion. Parker IMO is being castrated by Popovich's game plan, manu too. Both those guys could be starting in the ASG under other teams. I don't see Parker as being able to take that leap to Wade-like status under current conditions.

How long is that timeline for him going to keep floating?

[duncan2k5]

the reason is because the spurs have a lot of weapons. so on any given night either duncan, tony, manu, or devin will score big. plus remember we are the "boring" spurs so no one watches our games and they miss what real basketball looks like.

[sickdsm]

real basketball looks like

Silly me, i thought it included being able to hit jump shots, free throws, and lots of passing along with playing defense.

[T Park]

Something the Spurs do and the T Wolves dont.

Your point?

Anyways.


Other than D Wade, and Chauncey Billups, who is better??

Steve Nash?? Pfft

WHO ELSE PLEASE!!!!


Chris Whitney?

more than likely.

[ducks]

keep in mind we are talking about 2 years

wade is the only one I can think of in 2 years that should be better then tp
billups,steve,gp,kidd,nash, will be to old
bibby and jackson might be
tp will be top 3 without question in 2 years

[Sense]

Tony parker will never average 20 ppg...unless they are no longer a defensive team. How unlikely is that? VERY..

Did you see the matchups? Tim is barely averaging the 20 with the points the spurs have to score because of the D.

I'm sorry, but due to the fact that there's "haters" out there, and popularity is never in San Antonio, Tony Parker will only be the best in the eye of the wise.

Tony Parker and Manu will be allstars when the world wakes up and sees the stars after they win a championship AGAIN.

Hopefully that's all it takes.

[spursfaninla]

I don't see Parker doing this well for the whole year, so I am enjoying it while it lasts. He has had some GREAT games in a row, but he will have to average 20ppg with decent assists and good d to deserve top 5 right now IMO.

I don't know how to compare how good Parker is to other pg's without using some objective stats; scoring, assists, rebounds, team winning. Defense is very hard to quantify and verify. Of course we can say if parker was on a bad team he would be the man and would get comparable stats to some on this list, but I think we all know that AI carries his team, and it is VERY DOUBTFUL that Parker could do the same. Replace any of these : Francis, Marbury, Nash, Lebron, Francis, with Parker, and the team IMO just does not do as well.

Parker is very good, and sometimes great (like tonight against phoenix), but not consistent enough to be the main star on a team yet.

Today's top 5 points (objectively, in terms of overall productivity and wins)
1. Nash
2. Marbury
3. Lebron (point forward, 6th in assists!) Wade if you want to push it.
4.AI with over 7 apg and 28 ppg!
5. Francis with 22 ppg, 6.8 apg, 6 rpg his team is winning.

Bibby is just as effective as Parker today, and has the same numbers. Tinsley has always been a better assists man, but shoots at a poorer percentage. Scores about the same as parker.

In 5 years I think...
Wade, Arenas, parker, Arroyo, Hughes? will be top 5.

Don't forget Bibby and Billups, who will still be effective in 5 years, though probably safe to say Parker will have passed them.

Tinsley is averaging what Parker is in pts and assists, though not as good a shooting percentage.

Remember that Marbury will be 31 in 5 years, he will be in his prime still. Bibby will be 30, Francis 31, Billups 32.

Andre Miller with 15 ppg, shoots .47%, 6 apg, 10th in steals. Under rated.

[Sense]

I don't see Parker doing this well for the whole year, so I am enjoying it while it lasts. He has had some GREAT games in a row, but he will have to average 20ppg with decent assists and good d to deserve top 5 right now IMO.

I don't know how to compare how good Parker is to other pg's without using some objective stats; scoring, assists, rebounds, team winning. Defense is very hard to quantify and verify. Of course we can say if parker was on a bad team he would be the man and would get comparable stats to some on this list, but I think we all know that AI carries his team, and it is VERY DOUBTFUL that Parker could do the same. Replace any of these : Francis, Marbury, Nash, Lebron, Francis, with Parker, and the team IMO just does not do as well.

Parker is very good, and sometimes great (like tonight against phoenix), but not consistent enough to be the main star on a team yet.

Today's top 5 points (objectively, in terms of overall productivity and wins)
1. Nash
2. Marbury
3. Lebron (point forward, 6th in assists!) Wade if you want to push it.
4.AI with over 7 apg and 28 ppg!
5. Francis with 22 ppg, 6.8 apg, 6 rpg his team is winning.

Bibby is just as effective as Parker today, and has the same numbers. Tinsley has always been a better assists man, but shoots at a poorer percentage. Scores about the same as parker.

In 5 years I think...
Wade, Arenas, parker, Arroyo, Hughes? will be top 5.

Don't forget Bibby and Billups, who will still be effective in 5 years, though probably safe to say Parker will have passed them.

Tinsley is averaging what Parker is in pts and assists, though not as good a shooting percentage.

Remember that Marbury will be 31 in 5 years, he will be in his prime still. Bibby will be 30, Francis 31, Billups 32.

Andre Miller with 15 ppg, shoots .47%, 6 apg, 10th in steals. Under rated.



WTF?

Seriously, we are obviously talking bad about people who are judging numbers. Did you see my recept post? Who cares about numbers....Tony Parker is a better player than most people on that list. Today he proved it after shutting down the best point guard in the league. Unlike your list.... TP's team actually wins...

Seriously, shut ur yapp.

[samikeyp]

Silly me, i thought it included being able to hit jump shots, free throws, and lots of passing along with playing defense.

the free throws I will give you but everything else is wayyy off. The Spurs don't rely on jump shooting as much as other teams but they have guys who can hit them. The Spurs are also often guilty of too much passing if anything.

but back to the original topic. I still think Wade will be the best PG in 2 years but Parker can be top 5.

[JsnSA]

I don't think I saw anyone mention Hinrich in there.

He wont be the best in two years...but he will be up there.

He is pretty damn good.

He also had a 30 pt game tonight...only 3 assists...but he usually is much better with his assists.

He will be one of the best in a few years...right behind tony I hope.

[samikeyp]

One of the great things about the Spurs is....Parker does not have to be the best PG in the league for the Spurs to win the title.

[spursfaninla]

WTF?

Seriously, we are obviously talking bad about people who are judging numbers. Did you see my recept post? Who cares about numbers....Tony Parker is a better player than most people on that list. Today he proved it after shutting down the best point guard in the league. Unlike your list.... TP's team actually wins...

Seriously, shut ur yapp.

1) Anyone who says numbers are not important is lying or biased. Of course, numbers don't tell the whole story, but you can't say they are not 3/4 of evaluating fairly the import of a player.

2. I brought up the important detail about "being the franchise player", which is not about stats but about being able to be CONSISTENTLY enough of a threat to demand the focus of the defense, and still enable your team to win. Tony is not that, not yet. Those guys I named ahead of him today ARE.

3. I agreed that Tony will be ahead of just about everyone not named Wade if he maintains his current progress, though Arneas deserves mention, and you never know about Tinsley or Arroyo's improvement as well. Pass first vs. score first, its hard to evaluate.

4. Now, if someone wanted to say Parker is the best slashing/driving pg in the league, I would say hands down yes. His defense is getting better, which I regard highly. But he is average at assists, rebounding and jump shooting, and poor at ft's. He is great in the transition game, but average at working the offense in the half court.

Lets ignore the numbers, and just go with a well-rounded assessment of Parker then. With his current skill set he is top 10 for sure, and when hitting his jumper he is top 5. Even so, he is not great at getting to the line or converting when he gets there. His diversity of offense is not good enough to prevent (decent defensive) teams from adjusting to him and shutting him down (see Lakers in playoffs). If he improves that changes, but as he is now, he is lightning in a bottle some games, and good enough most of the time, but not top 5.


4.Last but not least, BLOW ME. You are acting like you have earned some kind of respect to be able to try to dismiss me (or anyone for that matter) here. I'm not feeling you re: that.

[adidas11]

One of the great things about the Spurs is....Parker does not have to be the best PG in the league for the Spurs to win the title.

SAMikeyP, of course Tony Parker does not have to be the best point guard, or even a Top 5 point guard (which is isn't even close to, right now), in order for the Spurs to win a title.

Neither did Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, John Paxon, Kenny Smith, and Chauncy Billups.

But that doesn't change the fact that Tony Parker is at best, inconsisten in nature. And the very same things that people are saying in this thread (only 2 more years, everyone!), are the same things that people were saying 2 years AGO about Tony Parker.

Food for thought.

[samikeyp]

I am not doubting that, nor did I say anything to the contrary. My statement was that in two years Parker...CAN...be a top 5 point guard.

[Sec24Row7]

Really there arent 5 people right now PLAYING that are playing better than he is.

Nash
Marbury
Iverson
Francis
Parker

Those are your top 5 points in the league right now in that order.

Keep in mind though, Baron Davis isn't playing and J Kidd is playing like crap returning from his injury.

[samikeyp]

Actually Davis is playing but coming back from injury.

[Sense]

1) Anyone who says numbers are not important is lying or biased. Of course, numbers don't tell the whole story, but you can't say they are not 3/4 of evaluating fairly the import of a player.

2. I brought up the important detail about "being the franchise player", which is not about stats but about being able ........


I'm not even gonna read all that bs. To tell you the truth, from what I can see so far, starting every sentence of your worthless and stupid paragraphs, your repeating the same crap. Example? To be a Franchise player you dont have to have numbers? Last time I checked... that is how you get popularity and that's how you get to be an allstar..

Now since all of that was the topic, I'll laugh at the fact that you said "blow me, you can't tell me shit im the shit".... in short words... you arent the shit, and you're practically immature, and lifeless. Especially if you want a reputation on the internet. Also, I know I'm new, but I could care less if you feel special here, you SHOULD blow me.

Grow up. V

[SequSpur]

Tony Parker needs to be consistent night in and night out. He can't drop 20+ in one game and then 9 in another. That is not allstar status. That is one of his problems. Is he one of the best, probably, but in Pop's system, he isn't going to get the shots every game.

And don't forget Hot Doggin Manu needs his shots too.

Ease up on the cheese bro. Welcome to the forum, we are here because of one thing.........

The Spurs.

[Sense]

Tony Parker needs to be consistent night in and night out. That is not allstar status. That is one of his problems. Is he one of the best, probably, but in Pop's system, he isn't going to get the shots every game.

And don't forget Hot Doggin Manu needs his shots too.

Ease up on the cheese bro. Welcome to the forum, we are here because of one thing.........

The Spurs.


I agree... with the last thing you said,but remember I didnt start...

and going back to the topic, I would rather have another championship than having parker as an allstar.

[SequSpur]

We all want championships, however championship teams are not built with one point guard.

Parker needs some help, and I personally am not sold on a Rookie Slovenian to do anything. Especially carrying a purse.

[Autumnleaf]

Tony Parker needs to be consistent night in and night out. He can't drop 20+ in one game and then 9 in another. That is not allstar status. That is one of his problems. Is he one of the best, probably, but in Pop's system, he isn't going to get the shots every game.

And don't forget Hot Doggin Manu needs his shots too.

Ease up on the cheese bro. Welcome to the forum, we are here because of one thing.........

The Spurs.

what a news! sequspur trying to be the peace maker :lol
this is a crazy world! :smokin

[pepito51]

Tp doesnt have systems to score 30 per night... it's much easier for AI, Francis or marbury to score, thier teammates are praying that they score cause they are not able to creat a collective game... TP is not consistent yet ( 12-17 every games, that's not so bad either..) but he improved. But pop doesnt ask him to score 25 per night... he will never do....
NASH is a new all star.. look at his stats, he waited 5 years to have the stats of Tp and played in offensive teams... if say to tony to play how he feels, if think he wil run much more and score more....
FRANCIS, never played in a good team, score 16 for 6 assit last season...
KIDD.... who is less consistent in shooting that kidd?? but he's still the best passer...
WADE will be impressive for sure....
ARENAS also but, it's easier to have shoot in washington... much easier...
all the marbury, baron davis, ....the same...and as Cassel, they will be to old
Lebron will be huge.... i consider him more as a forward.

So let's say that of course Tp will not be the best in 2 seasons but he will be in top 5 for sure.... especially cause he will play regularly the finals cause he prefered to stay in san antonio better that having more millions and play in washington or golden state or any little team..
general people remember all stars but spurs fan wil remember players who offer them a championship ring... and tony can help a lot for this.... and he will

[Slo spurs fan]

We all want championships, however championship teams are not built with one point guard.

Parker needs some help, and I personally am not sold on a Rookie Slovenian to do anything. Especially carrying a purse.


Offcourse, he had only 6 ast, 2 st, 1 bs, 2 reb in 17 min. He,s a crap :rolleyes

[whottt]

4. Now, if someone wanted to say Parker is the best slashing/driving pg in the league

Actually someone has already said something like that...well actually, someone said Parker was the second best slash and kick PG in the NBA(behind only Nash)...you might have heard of the guy who said it...he goes by the name of Magic...so that's a very good point you made...

I think you under-rate Parker's D...in fact he might already be the best man on man defensive PG in the NBA...he might be the best defensive PG in the NBA period...Kidd has never been that great of a man on man defender and I don't think he's much of a defender period anymore.

You make a good point on FT shooting...that is one inexcusable weakness in Parker's game...and Parker would probably be a 17-18 PPG scorer if he was a better FT shooter...

On his rebounds...he's a PG, it's great if a PG can board...but if it is a necessity for your PG to board you probably aren't going to be winning many NBA titles(unless he's 6'9 and goes about 240)...

As a team the Spurs are one of the best boarding teams in the NBA.

They are the #3 rebounding PCT team in the NBA, there's not that many free boards for a little guy to get...especially on a team with the leagues second best rebounder.

Assists?

Spurs are the 8th best passing team in the NBA...the team with the NBA leading assist man...Phoenix, averages only .6 more APG than the Spurs...

Our passing is excellent, our rebounding is excellent...

Parker's D and most of his O is great...he needs to work on FT shooting and needs to find his 3 point shot again...

Then he'll be the best PG in the West and the second best in the NBA...I don't think Parker is ever going to be better than Wade...Wade's just a rare talent at the position....but Parker's got a long career ahead of him as an elite PG.

[xcoriate]

Its possible wade ends up playing at 2, also theres no way parker is the best defender at pg in the league yet.

He could be he has the quicks to stay in front of his man however he still doesn't have the stregnth to guard the bigger guards, he has made drastic inmprovements in this area and is definately the most improved defender at the pg position.

[boutons]

"still doesn't have the stregnth to guard the bigger guards"

How does strength help stay in front of your man? Marbury's got the over-built bod, is he the best defeding PG?

Which PG is the best defender because of his muscles?

[whottt]

Who is better? Don't say Kidd...

[Kori Ellis]

I agree that some people are underrating Tony's D. He's definitely kicked it up a notch this season. Bruce Bowen said tonight that he often talks to Tony about becoming as good on D as he is on O and how that will make him one of the best PG's in the league. Tony said in the lockerroom that he really enjoys the defensive challenge of facing guys like Nash, etc. now. After Nash's 12 first quarter points, he was completely shut down.

[smeagol]

Parker needs some help, and I personally am not sold on a Rookie Slovenian to do anything. Especially carrying a purse.
Blah, blah, blah . . . :blah

[whottt]

Tonight in this thread was actually the first time I have considered Parker might just be the best defender at that postion in the NBA...

I mean I just can't think of anyone who is better on the ball than he is...I have been trying to come up with someone...I can't think of anyone that's been the stopper that Parker has been at the PG position...

Parker has owned, AI, Cassell, Nash, Marbury, Payton, can't remember how he did against Bibby...

True we have a great defensive scheme but...that never stopped AI before...even before Drob got old it didn't stop him.

Raja Bell maybe?

I'd say Speedy, maybe, but Parker whipped Speedy's ass.

I don't rate Kidd up there this season...I wouldn't rate him as a top on the ball defender anyway.


When I think about it...I just don't think there is any one playing better D at the PG spot this season than Parker...

I am open to suggestions because it is possible I am overlooking some guys..but if there is a better defender at the PG spot...it's not Jason Kidd or anyone that will be attending the AS game...

[Jimcs50]

He is not your prototypical PG who thinks pass first, shoot second, which is fine, as long as he is hitting his shot. It a nutshell, what makes TP a great PG is his ability to make his opponent play D for the whole game. He is wearing the opposing PG out each game. If you look at the numbers, the guy that is guarding him is getting tired and loses his effectiveness as the game goes on lately. TP is playing the best strecth of games in his career the last few weeks, and if he continues, the Spurs will be very very tough to beat.

[duncan2k5]

Then he'll be the best PG in the West and the second best in the NBA...I don't think Parker is ever going to be better than Wade...Wade's just a rare talent at the position....but Parker's got a long career ahead of him as an elite PG.
Wade isn't a point guard. he is playing his natural position now (2 guard)

[spursfaninla]

WTF?

Seriously, we are obviously talking bad about people who are judging numbers...
Seriously, shut ur yapp.

This is the essence of your take. Since then, people came out with actual ANALYSIS, which was entertaining, thought-provoking, and fun to read. Consider doing that instead of the main point of your taking being to shut up.

Being a Franchise Player is more than just getting shots. It is getting shots, having a defense focus on stopping you, and then still having that team win. Stephen Jackson was the leading scorer on the Hawks last year, and scored 20 ppg doing it, but his team didn't win very much, did it? I think many players could get 20+ a game, but not if they wanted to win. As players get more shots, teams try to focus the attention of the whole defense on them, and their percentages will drop. You need a player who is a great scorer to be able to get 20, even with a defense focused on them, without being a very innefficient scorer. Parker showed us he is capable of putting up 20+ in a streaky sense, but when a very good defensive team focused on him (again, the Laker's series), he folded.

Now, please excuse me if I took offense to your brushing such thinking off. I think its understandable, considering I went to the trouble to bring actual thought to my take.
As far as the rest of your thoughts, I doubt you have enough knowedge of me, on or off this forum, for me to consider your perspective very valuable. Moreover, your meltdown, after calling me immature, is hypocritical to say the least. But moving on.

Someone said Wade has been moved over to the 2; who is bringing up the ball? I saw wade doing it most of the time against the Lakers. In the least he is a combo guard.

I think the point-forward must be considered in the pg catagory; what was Magic if not a point-forward? Lebron handles the ball so much he must be considered. If a guy brings the ball up consistently, he should be a "point."

I am enjoying the thoughts about defense, and wondering who is considered to be a good pg defender by the players and coaches. Except for the best and the worst of the entire league, you just don't hear detailed evaluations of individual player's d.
I think part of the reason is that much of the effect that a defense has on a player has to do with team defense, except in extreme cases (Bowen, Artest, Duncan, B Wallace).

I did read that Parker's lateral quickness was suspect (somewhere...) on d. He certainly is suseptable to post up big guards still, so he can't be the best at that. His quickness allows his the potential to play great perimeter d, and perhaps he has improved in that way.

And point guards that have historically scored very well against the Spurs are not doing as well when they play us, which is a good indication of Parker's improvement; I don't think our overall team D is that different from last year.

[SequSpur]

Troll.

[Brodels]

I think it's easy to say that Parker is going to be among the very best in the league at his position when he's playing well like he currently is, but this talk will subside when he struggles again. Two weeks into the season, I kept hearing that Manu was going to be the second-best shooting guard in the NBA behind Kobe. I think fans tend to take a player's best moments and judge the player on that and that alone.

The fact is that consistency is an important factor in a player becoming among the very best at his position. Practically every player has flashes of brilliance, many perform at a very high level much of the time, and the true superstars bring their best almost every night. If you look at the top players in the game, they show consistency every night and they adjust and are able to get the job done in practically all circumstances.

If you look at Tony's best moments, it's clear that he can do some special things. But he hasn't yet done them on a consistent basis. Until he does, he won't be in that upper echelon of point guards. He's going to take time to develop and many have claimed that he just needs more time to learn how to dominate consistently at a very difficult position, but after four years in the league, it's unclear if he's ever going to able to avoid the bad stretches that sometimes plague his game. How many years is it going to take? Nobody really knows. It could take two, four, or sixty.

Great players also make adjustments. Many will blame last season's playoff collapse primarily on the coaching staff, but in my mind, they deserve to take only half of the blame. As little as Pop did to adjust, the point guard did practically nothing. After dominating for two games, Parker couldn't figure out how to make a positive impact after the Lakers focused on stopping him. The very best players figure out how to score against the odds, and if they can't do that, they figure out how to get their teammates easy baskets. Once the Lakers took away Parker's ability to score, his impact was minimal. That's a step he needs to take if he wants to be considered among the best at his position. He needs to do positive things to help his team win when faced with adversity.

The point about franchise players is well taken. It's hard to consider Tony to be a better player than Franchise, Marbury, and Iverson when those players are leading their teams to the playoffs and they are practically carrying their teams night after night. Could Parker do that? We can't know for sure, but his performance in the playoffs last season and his tendancy to struggle for extended stretches suggests that he couldn't.

Will he be the best in five years? Marbury and Francis will still be around, Bibby will still be playing, Wade will be in his prime, and some other new studs may enter the league. It's tough to know that will happen, but I can't say with any confidence that I believe that he will be the best at his position.

And the point isn't to take anything away from Parker. He's playing exactly as he needs to be playing. He's got great ability and flair. And he's only going to get better. But will he attain a high level of consistency and learn to adjust and make an impact under all circumstances? That's far from certain, and they are traits that the best point guards possess.

[ducks]

I never said manu would be the second best shooting guard in the nba
he can not play 30 minutes regualar to be effective
he really can play las many minutes as a 6 man not a starter
he does alot on the court though

tp was pressing about his contract early this season

he would have a nice average had he not been

manu will always be inconisdent in his shooting
I would still take boozer over manu

[ducks]

the point guard did practically nothing. After dominating for two games, Parker couldn't figure out how to make a positive impact after the Lakers focused on stopping him.

that comes with playoff EXPERIENCE

[1Parker1]

Who cares if he's the BEST at his position? As history can tell you, that doesn't always guarantee a championship ring, which is the ultimate goal of any player--more so then even being the "best." I'm sure Parker will be in the top 5 or 8 for the next few years in his positions. So, let the other top 4 or 7 PG's ranked ahead of him get their spotlight and their All Star appearances, etc. Parker already has a championship ring--which none of the other so called top players have and he has a chance to win many more years to come. Other than Nash and Wade--all the other PG's are not on really championship caliber teams. And I'd bet they'd all trade places with Tony in a heatbeat.

Regardless of all that, Tony is a perfect fit for this particular team--and thats what matters most.

[adidas11]

Fact remains that if Manu and Parker were really superstar level material, then they would be making All Star and All NBA teams.

As of this moment, neither is happening.

Brodels and SpursFaninLA are spot on correct (again). There is a big difference in putting up nice numbers when the opposing team's defense isn't focused on you, compared to when they do focus their defense on you.

[Brodels]

the point guard did practically nothing. After dominating for two games, Parker couldn't figure out how to make a positive impact after the Lakers focused on stopping him.

that comes with playoff EXPERIENCE

I agree with you to a point, and I'm not altogether unhappy with Parker's playoff performances in the past, but I'm going to argue against you anyway.

How long does it take? He's played in the playoff three consecutive years. I mean, Duncan played really well in the playoffs early in his career. Manu raised his game in the playoffs his rookie season. SJax struggled some, but he hit some big shots in what was essentially his rookie season during the playoffs. The list is practically endless. Many players raise their game in the postseason after playing just a couple of series. Parker's played in like eight playoff series. That's more than many players appear in over the course of their entire careers.

Again, I'm not out to highlight Tony's playoff failures because my only point really was that he isn't consistent enough or able to make enough adjustments to be considered among the elite at his position and he may or may not ever get there. But I do disagree with your assertion that more playoff experience is the answer for Tony.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Sometimes I wonder why I get myself into these arguments. This thread is another excellent example of people who post shit when they cant differentiate an apple from an orange.

If you think AI, Marbury, Francis and whoever you want to put here can do the same in Pop's system and score 25 points every night and carry the damn team. You can go screw your own ass. Pop's system is great imho cause why? We dont need 1 player to score 25 points every night. Manu can do it. Parker can do it. Devin has shown he can do it. Rose can certainly do it. So can Bowen at times. And of course we have Timmy who does it.

Go figure. You put Manu or Parker on the Hawks and you will see that they WILL carry the damn team. Cause there is no one else on the damn team. You think Al Harrington can carry the team? Antoine (Im a 3 point shooting PF whos sucks at it)? Of course Davis had a good year at New Orleans last year cause Mashburn cant play and there is no one else except Magloire. Who else is on the damn Knicks team? Only since Crawford is injured has Marbury put up All Star numbers.

I think the one player who might be better than Parker right now stat wise is Arenas. Why? Cause he is still producing the numbers when his team has 2 other 20 point scorers. But his defense is suspect. Overall Parker is better but is not as consistent as Arenas in terms of scoring.

I think Parker definitely has the potential to an elite guard but if you guys want to keep spending hours arguing about who the best point guard is. My advice is get a life. Maybe I need one as well.

Cause if the fella isnt Michael Jordan, then he isnt going to be an outright demi-god.

[Supergirl]

People are forgeting that championships don't define great PGs, either. IMO, John Stockton is one of the best PGs to play the game, and he never won a chamionship.

Parker is already one of the best PGs, and one of the only REAL PGs under the age of 25. He isn't as classic as Stockton or AJ, but he's the best of the new breeds of PG who can slash and create but also set plays. Top PGs in this category include Parker, Nash, Marbury, Wade. Parker plays better D than Nash, but isn't as consistant offensively. He's as good as Marbury offensively but gets outmuscled sometimes by him. And the verdict's not out on Wade yet. We'll see how he holds up. It's only his second year. Wait till he gets an injury and see how he recovers. That's always a true test.

[picnroll]

If all star is your measuring stick and if the West carries two point guards for the game then the only player more deserving of a berth than Parker is Nash. Cassell's is playing no better. Bibby is playing no better. And if you don't agree look up their stats and make your case.

So it's not unreasonable at all Parker will be an all star, particularly if he keeps up his current level of paly and the Spurs do as well.

[Brodels]

Sometimes I wonder why I get myself into these arguments. This thread is another excellent example of people who post shit when they cant differentiate an apple from an orange.

Or it's an example of non-homers who know more about basketball than you do trying to take an objective look at the situation.


If you think AI, Marbury, Francis and whoever you want to put here can do the same in Pop's system and score 25 points every night and carry the damn team.

Nobody said that they could. But they do need to get some credit for having the consistency to carry their teams night in and night out, something Parker hasn't been able to do. They are consistent enough to be among the very best at their position. They produce under the toughest circumstances. Parker doesn't yet. He's still a very good point guard and is among the six or eight best point guards in the league, but let me know when he accomplishes something like being a franchise player or finding ways to help his team compete each and every night.


You can go screw your own ass.

A bit hostile tonight, huh? Did you have a bad day?


Pop's system is great imho cause why? We dont need 1 player to score 25 points every night. Manu can do it. Parker can do it. Devin has shown he can do it. Rose can certainly do it. So can Bowen at times. And of course we have Timmy who does it.

Those players can do it, but they can't do it all the time. And that's the point. They couldn't, for example, do it in the playoffs last season when it mattered most.


Go figure. You put Manu or Parker on the Hawks and you will see that they WILL carry the damn team. Cause there is no one else on the damn team. You think Al Harrington can carry the team? Antoine (Im a 3 point shooting PF whos sucks at it)? Of course Davis had a good year at Charlotte last year cause Mashburn cant play and there is no one else except Magloire. Who else is on the damn Knicks team? Only since Crawford is injured has Marbury put up All Star numbers.

Um, we're talking about other point guards who are carrying their teams to the playoffs. What do the Hawks have to do with that?

And who is this Davis who plays for Charlotte? As far as I remember, there wasn't a team in Charlotte last season.

Marbury does have a little bit of talent around him, but he's carried teams in both conferences to the playoffs and led a Phoenix team a couple of seasons ago that gave the Spurs some real trouble in the postseason.


I think the one player who might be better than Parker right now stat wise is Arenas. Why? Cause he is still producing the numbers when his team has 2 other 20 point scorers. But his defense is suspect. Overall Parker is better but is not as consistent as Arenas in terms of scoring.

I don't disagree.


I think Parker definitely has the potential to an elite guard but if you guys want to keep spending hours arguing about who the best point guard is.

I think most people think he's got that potential. The question is whether or not he'll gain the consistency and ability to take it to another level that is required of elite players. It's certainly possible that he will, but it's certainly possible that he'll remain what he is right now: simply a very good NBA point guard.


My advice is get a life. Maybe I need one as well.

I concur.


Cause if the fella isnt Michael Jordan, then he isnt going to be an outright demi-god.

What does Jordan have to do with this? We're talking about Tony Parker's potential.

[Brodels]

If all star is your measuring stick and if the West carries two all stars for the game then the only player more deserving of a berth than Parker is Nash. Cassell's is playing no better. Bibby is playing no better. And if you don't agree look up their stats and make your case.

So it's not unreasonable at all Parker will be an all star, particularly if he keeps up his current level of paly and the Spurs do as well.

It's not my measuring stick because it's somewhat of a popularity contest. I agree that Nash is probably the only point guard in the west playing better than him right now. Bibby is playing solid ball. But many of the great point guards are in the east now. Wade, Marbury, Francis, Iverson, and Kidd are in the east. So is Billups, the NBA Finals MVP. I would consider those five or six (Billups is questionable) to be better than Parker right now.

That doesn't mean that Parker can't excel in the future, though.

[picnroll]

Wade is a SG.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Nash is playing well cause the suns havent been up against the best so far. Look what happened when Nash actually has to try and defend. He gets put in a freezer by Parker. No Nash and the Suns get whipped. Go figure if you think Nash is playing better. Numbers are all you care about. Thats why some of you guys think Rasho sucks as well. Funny, how is it that everyone seems to be able to see that Bowen can play defense? Is it because its all media hype? Is it because players complain against Bowen? Wow! The fourth estate really works for you guys!

If everyone thinks there is this problem and that problem with the Spurs, then go support some other team. I will stick by the Spurs no matter what as I have been for a long long time. Good times or bad. Good teams or bad. Every team has deficiencies. This is the salart cap era. We aint the Yankees and we dont have Daddy Steinbrenner. So Ill take having this bunch of guys anytime over what the Suns have or any other team for that matter.

[TheWriter]

Fact remains that if Manu and Parker were really superstar level material, then they would be making All Star and All NBA teams.

As of this moment, neither is happening.

Brodels and SpursFaninLA are spot on correct (again). There is a big difference in putting up nice numbers when the opposing team's defense isn't focused on you, compared to when they do focus their defense on you.

Not when the All-Star is picked by fans and is never about skill but popularity.

When players are being voted in when they're injured most of the season, it's not so much about skill is it. You disappoint Ad.

[picnroll]

Five players for each conference are picked by vote and relatively rarely are players picked that shouldn't make it anyways. The remaining seven are selected by GMs.

I'd like to see what a selection to the all star game would do to Parker's play. Parker is an emotion/confidence player and I have a feeling the "validation" of an all-star berth would push him up to another level.

[pjjrfan]

I think Tony will become a premier point guard, I know he is smart cause he signed up here to stay with Tim and the nucleus of what Pop and RC have built. He could have waited it out and gotten more money, ridiculous money from another team, but he chose to stay out of a bidding war and stay here where he has the best chance to win titles.

[Mark in Austin]

Fact remains that if Manu and Parker were really superstar level material, then they would be making All Star and All NBA teams.


I see. That explains why Vince Carter, Grant Hill, and Yao have been voted starters for the past couple years.

[Brodels]

Go figure if you think Nash is playing better. Numbers are all you care about. Thats why some of you guys think Rasho sucks as well. Funny, how is it that everyone seems to be able to see that Bowen can play defense? Is it because its all media hype? Is it because players complain against Bowen? Wow! The fourth estate really works for you guys!

Nash is playing better, and everyone but you seems to be able to see that. He's been the entire difference in Phoenix. He's the reason why the Suns went from cellar dwellers to having the best record in the league. Nash is primarily responsible for turning everything around there, and he's a legit MVP candidate this season. I know you don't want to open your eyes and see that, but just about everyone else in the world knows that Nash has clearly been the best point guard in the western conference this season and has possibly been the best in the league.

Let me know when another point guard not named Kidd totally turns around a franchise. If you underestimate his ability to do that, you simply don't know very much about basketball.


If everyone thinks there is this problem and that problem with the Spurs, then go support some other team. I will stick by the Spurs no matter what as I have been for a long long time. Good times or bad. Good teams or bad. Every team has deficiencies. This is the salart cap era. We aint the Yankees and we dont have Daddy Steinbrenner. So Ill take having this bunch of guys anytime over what the Suns have or any other team for that matter.

Just about everyone else here is as big a Spurs fan as you are, including myself. It's just that we choose to take a look at the big picture and discuss the Spurs' strenghts and weaknesses as objectively as possible. Many of us actually attempt to see things as they are. You assume that those discussing weaknesses are simply haters or not real fans. I would argue that most of those people are greater fans than you are.

A forum consisting of Dalamar and sixty clones would be the most boring place to talk sports on the web. This place thrives because people bring many different opinions to the table. It thrives because most people, even TPark, are willing to admit that the Spurs aren't perfect. If you aren't into that kind of thing, why do you bother to come here?

[adidas11]

The All Star game STARTERS are chosen by the fans.

The other 7 players on each team are chosen by the coaches. Who are far less "popularity" bias, and look at the individuals performance more closely.

[ducks]

against the lakers tp was shut down after the first 2 games

that basically was the first playoff series that someone focused on shutting down tp

duncan was also shut down

one could also agrue if mailman was not on the lakers the spurs would have beaten them


adidass if the fans had no say in it tp would have a better shot
the less popular players would have more of a shot
yes fans only vote for starters but that is 5 slots coaches can not fill.

[Nikos]

Amare Stoudamire is the OTHER reason the Suns have done so well. Just as responsible as Nash for the turnaround.

[boutons]

"Amare Stoudamire is the OTHER reason the Suns have done so well"

yep, a HUGE upgrade this year, as was his year2 over rookie. Power moves, left hand stuff, short jumpers, FTs all added/improved. Roll his stats back to last year, and PHX would be a lot lower, even with Steve. He's been damn near unstoppable, even unslowable.

[Ghost Writer]

In 2 years?

Why not now?

And who's to say the 5-10 other PGs that are young and better than Parker right now won't improve as well?

Parker is a small shooting guard with a handle.

He is not a playmaker right now.

[SequSpur]

He is not a playmaker right now.

Interesting. I would think that Suns think he is a one dimensional point guard who can't do shit.

:rolleyes

[Extra Stout]

Tony always goes through these hot stretches where everybody gets all drooly over him. He's streaky. He's not even really a pure PG -- he might get on hot streaks passing the ball and rack up some big assist numbers from time to time, but most of that is going to be off drive-and-kick, not the nifty PG-style passes Manu and Udrih make. Tony doesn't have that prototypical PG court vision, and I don't see him learning that. The guy's in his fourth year now, and all he's going to develop into from now on is a more refined version of himself, not the next Oscar Robertson. The Spurs don't need him to be one of the best 2 PG's in the league or even in the top 5. But even with the inconsistencies and shortcomings in his game, he's still easily in the top six to eight. The Spurs would be happy enough if he consistently found ways to contribute on nights when his shot isn't falling.

[Brodels]

Tony always goes through these hot stretches where everybody gets all drooly over him. He's streaky. He's not even really a pure PG -- he might get on hot streaks passing the ball and rack up some big assist numbers from time to time, but most of that is going to be off drive-and-kick, not the nifty PG-style passes Manu and Udrih make. Tony doesn't have that prototypical PG court vision, and I don't see him learning that. The guy's in his fourth year now, and all he's going to develop into from now on is a more refined version of himself, not the next Oscar Robertson. The Spurs don't need him to be one of the best 2 PG's in the league or even in the top 5. But even with the inconsistencies and shortcomings in his game, he's still easily in the top six to eight. The Spurs would be happy enough if he consistently found ways to contribute on nights when his shot isn't falling.

Money.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Nash is playing better, and everyone but you seems to be able to see that. He's been the entire difference in Phoenix. He's the reason why the Suns went from cellar dwellers to having the best record in the league. Nash is primarily responsible for turning everything around there, and he's a legit MVP candidate this season. I know you don't want to open your eyes and see that, but just about everyone else in the world knows that Nash has clearly been the best point guard in the western conference this season and has possibly been the best in the league.

Let me know when another point guard not named Kidd totally turns around a franchise. If you underestimate his ability to do that, you simply don't know very much about basketball.


Dont give all the credit to Nash. He has a man-child called Amare. A 20-10 guy in Marion. A rising star in Joe Johnson. And he has the hottest 3 pt shooting guy in the league at the moment. All four of them make it easy for Nash to get those numbers. He hasnt single handledly changed the course of this franchise. He just fits better than Marbury. He is more of a pass first PG and when you are constantly dunking and getting lay-ups. Its much easier to get the assists.

Nash and Kidd were in roughly the same situations. They were the pass first PG that the teams needed. Teams that run the court. Nash for MVP? Think you gotta be kidding. He will be in the voting cause of his numbers but I really doubt that he has a legit chance unless he can bring them the championship.

[Brodels]

Dont give all the credit to Nash. He has a man-child called Amare. A 20-10 guy in Marion. A rising star in Joe Johnson. And he has the hottest 3 pt shooting guy in the league at the moment. All four of them make it easy for Nash to get those numbers. He hasnt single handledly changed the course of this franchise. He just fits better than Marbury. He is more of a pass first PG and when you are constantly dunking and getting lay-ups. Its much easier to get the assists.

Nash and Kidd were in roughly the same situations. They were the pass first PG that the teams needed. Teams that run the court. Nash for MVP? Think you gotta be kidding. He will be in the voting cause of his numbers but I really doubt that he has a legit chance unless he can bring them the championship.

Nash is still the biggest difference. Marion and Stoudamire didn't do crap last season. Marion isn't any better than he was last season and Amare is steadily improving. All of the pieces working together make the Suns a great team, but IMO, Nash is absolutely the biggest difference there.

Nash won't win the MVP, but if he keeps playing like he is now and the Suns keep on winning, he'll be a candidate and he'll get some votes. And I think we can both agree that he'll get many more MVP votes than Parker will.

[sickdsm]

I don't get you guys. This was a topic about Parker and his maturing process and where he will be in a couple years. Some ignorant whiney-ass's suddenly turn this into a a "your mom....." contest because everyone isn't kissing parkers' ass. Mature or get the hell outta here if you can't have a discussion without feeling like its a direct insult on you or your team.

Recognize what nash has done to Phx. I guarantee its a helluva lot more than Parker or Marbury could/did do. What's the difference? Its not Marion or Joe johnson. Theres a reason why Amare's exploding this year. I GUESS if you want to give all the credit to Q and D'antoni you have every right to but at this point in the season my eyes pop out when i see that Nash just had 10 consecutive games with 10 plus assists earlier this week.

[ducks]

THE suns needed a point guard bad

nash is a better playmaker by far then tp
tp is by far the better defender though

amare would be better this year with tp then what they had last year
however their record would not be as good with him
amare would have improved some with tp

tp has proved (in game against cavs) he could run more
with spurs he can not as much

tp has not proved that he could though on a good defensive team
who knows for sure if he could

right now nash is the better playmaker in 2 years though it will be tp
nash will be done

[boutons]

dux, nice try, but your sonnet needs a little work:

http://mimi.essortment.com/sonnetlyricwha_rufa.htm

[pepito51]

TONY can't make 15 assit per night.... cause the play of the spurs turns around Timmy.
TONY can't support all the pressure of the team.... cause he doesnt need it ....Timmy does it.... man, have you looked and Gary payton last year.. suddenly he had a big man with him.. a different systelm that was created to win championship and not put the pressure on point guard.... he screwed.... PG position is not done for scoring.... when you have great collectivs systems you dont need it!!
TONY can't be consistent... how old is he?? 22.... how many systems are done for him?? during the game against phoenix, he told to a french journalist that he was really happy cause pop called for a lot of systems for him and after a time-out, pop immediatly asked for a post-up for TP............tat was the first time that he called a system after a time out for him.....
you all see what i mean?? Tony always can create space for him, he still have to work a lot to find himself in open shout positions..... but ...........but... with the spurs, i dont even want him to score 25 per nigts... that would not help the team so much ... manu, bruce, devin, malik are there to help and all of them can score 15.... that's how you win title.. when you have good players and great play

[pepito51]

nash deserves to be mvp right now, but we have to see how he will play during the playoff.. but does anybody here really thinks that the mvp will be selected in regards of the impact of the player.... plaese, it's all about numbers.. how many assits, how many points.... nba doesnt recognize impact.... and that why parker is under rated.... he doesnt play selfishly and plays in a system that favorize the game and not the statistics... tp will not improve so much in terms of numbers but will be more consintent and will win title....

[mikaela01]

hope so! that'll be great when it happens...

:spin :spin :spin

[Supergirl]

Correction: Stoudemire didn't "do shit" last season because he was out all season with an injury. And he had his vision corrected from his rookie season, when he was still quite amazing. So if he can be good mostly blind, it's no surprise how good he is now that he can see. He's the real deal. He's the 3rd best PF in the league (after TD and KG), and the 2nd best C (after Shaq).

Nash takes the team to the playoffs, but and he's the MVP of that team, but not the MVP of the league. Other players are just as valuable - KG, TD, Kobe, Shaq, Ray Allen, Jason Kidd (Still!), Dirk.

Suns are out of the playoffs in the 1st round, though, because they've got no bench, and they're going to be tired and run ragged.

[Spurminator]

I think Nash has a better case for MVP this season than Kidd had in 2002 when the national media was all over his balls.

I don't care who is coaching the team, if a player fits that system to perfection, as Nash has so far, then that is, by definition, "Value." QRich was a nice addition, but he was shooting something like 30% from the field for the first month and a half of the season.

[bigzak25]

TP is what he is. An above average point guard with blazing speed and good D.

remember his roots, he's from the damn paris basket racing league....

let him do what he does, attack the rim.....hit the tear drop, make the layup, draw the foul....kick it out to the open man as needed, and that will be enough.

IF/WHEN TP doesn't attack or isn't allowed to attack, he is turned into a shooter that can't pass. So uh, until his outside shot comes around consistantly, that is a bad thing.

Allstar? maybe if he attacks the rim 30 times a night....or if he gets that outside shot down....til then, just a damn good player with consistancy issues.