Another possible long three who may be available

[SenorSpur]

We've all explored this subject quite a bit over the past couple of years. Especially in light of Pop's declaration that the Spurs would be looking for the so-called "Derrick McKey"-type of player. Well, we have yet another candidate.

ESPN.com produced a list of top 10 players most likely to be traded before the deadline. Two of which are young swingmen, who could figure prominently as potential long-term solutions at this position. One in particular, is a long three, who is talented, has length, and could be had for a very low, cap-friendly salary.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=TradeWatch-071213


Who?
Hakim Warrick, Grizzlies

Vitals
Born: July 8, 1982
Philadelphia, PA
Height: 6-9
Weight: 219 lbs. Age: 25
Pos: F
College: Syracuse
Drafted: 2005, 1st round, 19th pick by Grizzlies

Career Stats:
8.6 pts, 3.6 rebs, 0.3 stls, 0.3 blks

2008 Salary:
$1,376,040

Why he may be available?
After a five-game stretch in which he played very little, the Grizzlies have been showcasing him to a degree in their past two games as word has circulated around the league that the third-year forward does not fit into the Grizzlies' long-term plans. There are still plenty of teams willing to take a shot on Warrick's upside, which means Memphis can get true value in return.


Who?
Mickael Pietrus, Warriors

Vitals
Born: February 7, 1982
Les Abymes, Guadeloupe
Height: 6-6
Weight: 215 lbs. Age: 25
Pos: GF
Drafted: 2003, 1st round, 11th pick by Warriors

Career Stats:
9.0 pts, 3.3 rebs, 0.6 stls, 0.4 blks

2008 Salary:
$3,470,771

Why he may be available?
He will be an unrestricted free agent next summer after taking the Warriors' qualifying offer a few months back, and he has become little more than a bit player in coach Don Nelson's ever-changing rotation. Pietrus has the right to veto any trade because he would lose his Bird rights (which allows teams to exceed the salary cap to re-sign their own veteran free agents) if dealt, but he'd accept a deal if it sent him to a franchise that would let him get enough playing time to enhance his value -- much like Vladimir Radmanovic did two seasons ago when he accepted a trade from the Sonics to the Clippers.

On one hand, the Spurs rarely make moves during the season. Seeing as how they are already stacked at that position and judging how long the incubation period is for an incoming player, I doubt the Spurs would make any moves that would alter their current swingman rotation until the offseason.

On the other hand, they certainly know the swing position is one of critical need for next year. There may not be many attractive or affordable options available this summer. Obviously if one or the other was acquired before the deadling, neither would be able to help them much this year. This would be more of a move for next season.

[mystargtr34]

Interesting... but if Hakim Warrick cant get on the court and contribute for a team playing run and gun and with very few offensive sets - with his athletisicm - then i cant see contributing to this team.

Pietrus i would like

[ss1986v2]

i was a big pietrus fan for a while, but after 4+ years in the league, he still plays like a rookie. he is about as smart as a bag of skittles. zero basketball IQ. and while he has the ability to play defense, he doesnt have the mind. he misses rotations on a regular basis and gets burned by ball fakes far too often for a 4+ year player. he also has a problem with fouls because of this (2.43 fpg over 21.2 mpg career) and has always had an ast/to ration well below 1.0 (0.7 ast/to career).

now another warrior, azubuike, i might like to take a chance on. not the mythical "long three", but a decent sg prospect.

[wildbill2u]

They filled the 'swing' position with I'm Okedokey. No more room at the inn for Pietrus.

[urunobili]

Pietrus would be great with the Spurs...

[tav1]

Warrick played well under Fratello and might be a decent fit in our half court system. He's a better than average rebounder for his size. But I''m not sure where he would get minutes, if the Spurs would be willing to pay his salary (which would take us into the lux tax) or if we could get him for trade exception money, which I doubt. If not, who do you trade to get him--Elson or Bonner? Memphis is not going to bite.

Pietrus is not bright enough to play in San Antonio.

[JamStone]

Warrick is a power forward in a small forward's body. His perimeter guard skills are lacking to consistently play the 3. He'd be a better fit with a team like Phoenix where he can mostly play the power forward spot.

[leemajors]

Warrick is a power forward in a small forward's body. His perimeter guard skills are lacking to consistently play the 3. He'd be a better fit with a team like Phoenix where he can mostly play the power forward spot.
agreed, which makes this odd - aren't they trying to do the same in memphis?

[MrChug]

I always had prayed they had drafted him that year...he was ALMOST available.

[m33p0]

what about ron artest? he's currently earning $8million a year for the kings. he can opt out of his contract next year and we will have empty seats on the bench next year. possibilities? or should we not even consider him?

pros:
*will definitely up our defense with him guarding the post.
*adds someone who can post up.
*he wants a championship.

cons:
*kings will definitely match any offer that is reasonable. he's severely underpaid at $8million
*past history.
*tendency to demand the ball.

the big issue of course is cap space.

[remingtonbo2001]

what about ron artest? he's currently earning $8million a year for the kings. he can opt out of his contract next year and we will have empty seats on the bench next year. possibilities? or should we not even consider him?

pros:
*will definitely up our defense with him guarding the post.
*adds someone who can post up.
*he wants a championship.

cons:
*kings will definitely match any offer that is reasonable. he's severely underpaid at $8million
*past history.
*tendency to demand the ball.

the big issue of course is cap space.

Too risky!

I think the Spurs learned there lesson last time when they tried Dennis Rodman out for a couple of seasons.

[Bruno]

I don't know enough Warrick to say if he could really help Spurs but he has an interesting profile. Spurs seems to be happy with their team right now and they are just under the luxury tax. A trade or Spurs signing a 15th player this year is unlikely. Warrick could be an interesting option this summer. Spurs have a trade exception from the Beno trade big enough to take Warrick before the draft. If Memphis want to dump him (like Hornets did with Cedric Simmons), Spurs should take a flyer on him.

I say no to Pietrus, who is a SG/SF and not the SF/PF coveted, because Spurs have still Udoka and because Pietrus sucks. Even if Udoka fails in SA, I rather see Spurs going after a player like Gelabale than Pietrus. Gelabale will be available this summer for a cheap contract and Spurs were interested by him in the past. I don't know if it's still the case. Spurs scout also a lot the D-League this year via Austin and they could maybe find an interesting player in D-League.

[tav1]

Our FA agent wish list should include some or all of the following: a 2 to replace Fin, a 3 to eventually replace Bowen, a bench warming big (maybe Splitter is enough) and possibly a third point (assuming Washington and Parker as definate). There are a lot of players out there, I'd rather the Spurs just set back and evaluated their options and made a move next summer.

The wildcard in all this is that team owners are looking at an incredibly friendly market. It may be the case that someone will be available at a buyer's price and the Spurs take a run at them despite not having a glaring need. For example, if Okafor's value drops, as it is doing now, maybe you trade to clear even more cap (Bonner) and put all your marbles in that basket. These are unlikely scenarios, but who knows.

The current roster is solid. Why fuss with it now?

[Streakyshooter08]

I would like to see Artest comming to the Spurs if he would sign a reasonable contract which is doubtfull. Him together with Duncan an Bowen would be scary defensively. That said, I don't think it happens.

[SenorSpur]

The current roster is solid. Why fuss with it now?

This is all mere supposition. As stated, the Spurs "rarely" make trades during the regular season. This is not to say they should or should not. This is simply information on potential players, who could fill a long-term need for cheap, and who MAY be available prior to the trade deadline.

[exstatic]

Warrick has always struck me as just a skinny version of Stromile Swift: a freak athlete rather than a basketball player.

[timvp]

The Pistons just waived Ronald Dupree to make room for Brezec and Hermann after trading Nazr. The Spurs have gone after Dupree twice before. One time he was claimed off waiver before the Spurs could do so. The other time he ended up being traded to a different team instead of waived.

It's tough to say if the Spurs will still want him. He's done a whole lot of nothing in the last couple seasons. While he's not as tall as you'd like for a Long Three, he's definitely thick and strong enough to fill that role.

This time, the Spurs should be able to get him if they want him. I don't see anyone claiming him off waivers. The only way it'd make sense for the Spurs would be to waive Darius Washington. I doubt the Spurs like Dupree enough to give up on a prospect who also happens to be the third string point guard ... but I guess we'll see.

[Bruno]

Marcus Slaughter and Linton Johnson are also free agents.

[The Truth #6]

I wonder if the long 3 is as needed right now as it was once thought (Dirk's vanishing act is obviously the main reason for that.)

I'm happy to give Ime a chance. Dupree doesn't seem like a big step up from Ime.

Also, I doubt Dupree speaks more than one language.

[exstatic]

I wonder if the long 3 is as needed right now as it was once thought (Dirk's vanishing act is obviously the main reason for that.)

I'm happy to give Ime a chance. Dupree doesn't seem like a big step up from Ime.

Also, I doubt Dupree speaks more than one language.
He's probably never thrown down in Affika, either....

[dropstep4421]

get skinny (hakim warrick)

[AFBlue]

Warrick has always struck me as just a skinny version of Stromile Swift: a freak athlete rather than a basketball player.

Warrick has really worked hard and has added a nice, reliable mid-range game to his offense. I agree that he started out as another Stro Swift, but he seems to have taken his game to another level.

Sadly, I don't think the Spurs have enough of the right pieces to trade for him.

[Mr. Body]

What I'm not clear about is why Memphis wants to get rid of Warrick. What's the deal there? Wrong style of ball?

[AFBlue]

About Pietrus...

On first glance, he looks like the perfect fit for the Spurs. He is an international player, has good defensive ability, and fills a potential need for the upcoming off-season playing either SG or SF.

At second glance, he still looks like a viable candidate but not one that you would automatically assume would get a strong look from the Spurs FO. According to many, he doesn't have a strong basketball IQ and still makes "rookie" mistakes. That is not something that will endear him to the FO or coaching staff. He also doesn't seem to have the attitude and work ethic the FO/coach covet.

The Spurs also tend to go for guys that are much more "under the radar" free agents, with the exception of the J-Kidd courting, and I'm not sure Pietrus fits that mold either. As someone suggested earlier, I think the Spurs might be more likely to go after a guy like Kelenna Azubuike, who will most likely opt out of his deal for a bit more money.

Azubuike had to fight for a spot in this league so you know the work ethic is there, is a power guard with a decent shot and good athleticism, and will most likely be a cheaper option to fill a potential void at G/F.

Honestly, I'd be happy with either as both seem like similar players. Of course, it will take both some time to adjust to actually having to play team defense.... :lol

[AFBlue]

What I'm not clear about is why Memphis wants to get rid of Warrick. What's the deal there? Wrong style of ball?

I'm also baffled with this one.

It seems to me that he's making strides, improving his game, and making a case for being a solid long-term rotation player.

Then again, this is a whole new regime that is looking to establish a new idenity. I assume that if they thought they'd get "fair value" for Pau, he'd already be gone....and it may still happen.

Warrick would be a nice pickup for any team as he is still on a cheap rookie contract that won't expire for a couple years.

[SpursIndonesia]

Whoever it is, i just love the Spurs to have a perimeter player which is young, at least 6'8" tall, and defensively good enough to be Bowen successor in the future -i'm not sold at all with Ime Udoka.

[ss1986v2]

Whoever it is, i just love the Spurs to have a perimeter player which is young, at least 6'8" tall, and defensively good enough to be Bowen successor in the future -i'm not sold at all with Ime Udoka.
just for the record, who in the league fits that role? marion (although not that young anymore)? aside from that, i cant name too many. maybe jamario moon, but the kid doesnt have any kind of shot right now (aside from dunks and put-backs) and no way toronto lets him go anytime soon. theres a reason why everyone refers to it as the "mythical long three".

as for other wing additions, i like azubuike and delfino. delfino is restricted, and i think buike might be too (from what i gather from warrior fan). but i think both have the potential to fill in nicely. delfino is young, big, and athletic (25 yrs, 6'6", 225), is a great slasher, has good range, and is a solid defender. problem is he has only really exploded this year, which is his contract year (too be fair though, he was stuck in detroit). also, his shot selection comes into question at times and his shot is a bit streaky too. but i think he would fit very well in the spurs system and mesh well chemistry wise too.

buike is a bit more of an unknown. it all depends as to whether you believe nellie-ball can translate to actual basketball lol. if so, the kid has the same physical tools that delfino has, and then some. with what he lacks on the defensive end, he makes up with unselfish offensive play (a bit of an oxymoron in nellie-ball). my biggest issue with buike is that he is last on the warriors in +/- this season (something like -52 this season). but that might straighten itself out over the course of an entire season, so i wont hold that against him yet.

[Darkwaters]

I have another prospect for a replacement 3: Rasual Butler.

Word is that Rasual told has given a trade "demand" unless the Hornets give him more playing time. His time on the court has definitely increased, but he still might be on the block as a result of his objection.

Hes 6'7, long and athletic. He is known as a ranged shooter and has shown a propensity to play solid defense when he puts his mind to it. While he has good height and length, he does lack something in the strength category, however.

[SenorSpur]

What I'm not clear about is why Memphis wants to get rid of Warrick. What's the deal there? Wrong style of ball?

From what I understand, Warrick doesn't seem to fit new Grizzlies coach Mark Iavaroni's wide-open, Phoenix-style, run-n-gun, brand of offense. Can't hit the 3-ball consistently. Same situation as with Gasol.

[wildbill2u]

I wonder if the long 3 is as needed right now as it was once thought (Dirk's vanishing act is obviously the main reason for that.)...
You may be right. The era of small ball seems to be upon us. There aren't many really dangerous teams who have a super long three to worry us like Dirk.

Let me throw a outrageous theory out. Splitter may be our long three against teams who have really long threes (like Dirk.)

From watching the vids on Splitter I noticed something. His coaches consistently played him out at the 3pt arc. He was fast enough to drive from there, played the pick and roll from there and had a decent outside shot. This means he's pretty mobile for a guy that big.

Granted that he's now moved inside since Scola is gone from that team, but I think he could defend against Dirk as well as anybody.

[smrattler]

Does Bowen qualify as a "long 3"? He seems pretty average sized SF, actually pretty small compared to most that outweigh him. More built like a SG probably. And he's only played a billion games in a row at a very high level for us. I just want someone that can play, I don't care about their measurables.

Besides, a "long 3" is an oxymoron.

[Mr. Body]

I don't think Bowen is technically a "long 3". He's a bit too short, although pretty good size for a traditional SF; also, the long 3 term suggests a guy who can slide over to play PF and do some PF things like block shots and especially rebound, neither of which Bowen can do.

[thekingrobert]

ill pass on both plus who are the spur gonna trade and mckey was a poor man scottie pippen these ppl cant even shoot

[ChumpDumper]

I saw Brandon Bowman play for Bakersfield in person last month and on TV today. He's always been a good defender and he's been pretty impressive offensively now that he has to be the man on that team. He got three breakaway steals in a row on the televised game against Anaheim leading to a huge dunk, a blown dunk and a embarrassed layup respectively. He's about the same size as Dominic McGuire.

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=brandon_bowman

http://www.nba.com/media/dleague/jam_energy_071210_08.jpg

[Mr. Body]

There's always room for embarrassed layups on the Spurs.

[tav1]

ChumpDumper, your d-league insight is really great. I don't follow the D-league but I appreciate your comments--you've given me interest.

Wings: I especially like Andre Iguodala if he were not a) outside our price range and b) restricted. Beyond him, Josh Childress and Trevor Ariza hold some appeal, and they may be obtainable. At guard, Carlos Del Fino and Tony Allen are probably within the Spurs' price range. And the Bulls have a 2/3 named Thabo Sefolosha that is sometimes impressive. And, again, Hakim Warrick could be worthwhile. It's a good market, both in terms of talent and price.

Sergio Rodriquez will be a free agent next summer. We won't need a point, but he seems really promising.

And honestly, the Spurs could stand to readdress their interior D. Another bonafide shot blocker (read: not Oberto, not Elson) to clog the lane would certainly help, especially as Duncan climbs through his 30s. Maybe Splitter, maybe not. I wonder if someone like Zo Mourning could play the role of Horry next year--cagey vet at a decent price that is mostly a playoff guy. Zo doesn't command much money.

But more than likely, the Spurs will go under the radar with most of their holes and choose a blue chipper that will help keep them flexible.

[ChumpDumper]

A couple of prospects have already been scooped out of the D-League by European teams already, but a few decent ones remain like Bowman, Sean Banks and of course DerMarr Johnson.

I agree about the blocking issue. If he had any perimeter skills at all, I'd think about Stephane Lasme. He's averaging 2.7 blocks a game mainly because he got six Friday and eight today.

[AFBlue]

as for other wing additions, i like azubuike and delfino. delfino is restricted, and i think buike might be too (from what i gather from warrior fan). but i think both have the potential to fill in nicely. delfino is young, big, and athletic (25 yrs, 6'6", 225), is a great slasher, has good range, and is a solid defender. problem is he has only really exploded this year, which is his contract year (too be fair though, he was stuck in detroit). also, his shot selection comes into question at times and his shot is a bit streaky too. but i think he would fit very well in the spurs system and mesh well chemistry wise too.

buike is a bit more of an unknown. it all depends as to whether you believe nellie-ball can translate to actual basketball lol. if so, the kid has the same physical tools that delfino has, and then some. with what he lacks on the defensive end, he makes up with unselfish offensive play (a bit of an oxymoron in nellie-ball). my biggest issue with buike is that he is last on the warriors in +/- this season (something like -52 this season). but that might straighten itself out over the course of an entire season, so i wont hold that against him yet.

IMO, Delfino falls into that category of popular possible free agents along with guys like Pietrus, Childress, JR Smith and others. It's not that I think the Spurs won't show interest in these guys, but I'm not sure how much interest they'll have. Again, they don't traditionally go after the FA you and I would necessarily think of right away (re: Ime Udoka?).

On Azubuike's contract, I see that he has a player option for next year and would be making slightly above $750K if he decided to stay with the Warriors. While I'm not sure what his market would be, I can almost guarantee that he gets better than $1M in FA...and so I'd guess he's almost an automatic opt-out candidate.

As such, I'm not sure how a player can opt out of his deal yet still be a "restricted" FA. Is there someone that can offer clarification on this?

On him as a player, I think he has the ability to be a defensive stopper but those numbers certainly are troubling. I would attribute it in some sense, however, to GS system. It was just "food for thought" on a possible under-the-rader FA for next off-season.

[AFBlue]

A couple of prospects have already been scooped out of the D-League by European teams already, but a few decent ones remain like Bowman, Sean Banks and of course DerMarr Johnson.

I agree about the blocking issue. If he had any perimeter skills at all, I'd think about Stephane Lasme. He's averaging 2.7 blocks a game mainly because he got six Friday and eight today.

Sean Banks...didn't he play at Memphis? With Washington? What has that kid been up to since going undrafted a couple years ago?

I seem to remember it was his off-court behavior that scared some teams off....has he kept his nose clean of late?

[ss1986v2]

On Azubuike's contract, I see that he has a player option for next year and would be making slightly above $750K if he decided to stay with the Warriors. While I'm not sure what his market would be, I can almost guarantee that he gets better than $1M in FA...and so I'd guess he's almost an automatic opt-out candidate.

As such, I'm not sure how a player can opt out of his deal yet still be a "restricted" FA. Is there someone that can offer clarification on this?

no doubt he opts out. and i too would love some clarification on buike's contract situation. but from what i can gather from warrior fans on other boards, and larry coon's cba breakdown:


Restricted free agency exists only on a limited basis. It is allowed following the fourth year of rookie "scale" contracts for first-round draft picks (see question number 41). It is also allowed for all veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons. However, a first round draft pick becomes an unrestricted free agent following his second or third season if his team does not exercise its option to extend the player's rookie scale contract for the next season. All other free agency is limited to unrestricted free agency.
it appears that the warriors will have matching rights.

i think both buike and delfino are longshots, but i think they make the best fits. my first choice would be delfino though. i think he would fit right along with the rest of the team. solid defender, good slasher, decent outside shot. doesnt that just scream spurs material? yes, i know the spurs never seem to do what we think they should (and why should they, they seem to know what the hell they are doing, right?), but with the luxury tax no longer an imminent concern, i hope they choose to splurge a bit and go after on of the more "known" options. and out of that group we've discussed (childress, pietrus, smith, buike, delfino), delfino is by far my favorite right now.

[ChumpDumper]

Sean Banks...didn't he play at Memphis? With Washington? What has that kid been up to since going undrafted a couple years ago?

I seem to remember it was his off-court behavior that scared some teams off....has he kept his nose clean of late?Same guy. It says something that he is performing well in the triangle and the D-fenders kept him on another season. His worst offensive attribute is his flat-trajectory jumper.

[Darkwaters]

Wings: I especially like Andre Iguodala if he were not a) outside our price range and b) restricted. Beyond him, Josh Childress and Trevor Ariza hold some appeal, and they may be obtainable. At guard, Carlos Del Fino and Tony Allen are probably within the Spurs' price range. And the Bulls have a 2/3 named Thabo Sefolosha that is sometimes impressive. And, again, Hakim Warrick could be worthwhile. It's a good market, both in terms of talent and price.

Sergio Rodriquez will be a free agent next summer. We won't need a point, but he seems really promising.

And honestly, the Spurs could stand to readdress their interior D. Another bonafide shot blocker (read: not Oberto, not Elson) to clog the lane would certainly help, especially as Duncan climbs through his 30s. Maybe Splitter, maybe not. I wonder if someone like Zo Mourning could play the role of Horry next year--cagey vet at a decent price that is mostly a playoff guy. Zo doesn't command much money.

But more than likely, the Spurs will go under the radar with most of their holes and choose a blue chipper that will help keep them flexible.

Andre Igoudala - You're kidding right? Somebody is going to throw way too much money at him for us to be involved. If Rashard Lewis gets max money then surely this guy is out of our price range. And as you mentioned, any reaonable offers would simply be matched.

Josh Childress - He should be a popular target this offseason and will likely be restricted. I forsee him getting traded at the deadline by a team that seeks to resign him. Unless we're that team I don't think we'll snag him up.

Trevor Ariza - This guy just got traded to the Lakers for scraps. If the Spurs were high on him I would have figured they might have gotten in on the game when Orlando was selling low. Besides, the guy can't shoot. If you really want a defense first, second and third guy with no idea where or what to do on the other end of the court I recommend you look at Marcus Dove from OK State in the 2nd round of the upcoming draft.

Carlos Delfino - I wouldn't mind taking a look at this guy. But, unfortunately, hes just another restricted free agent that will likely take a considerable paycheck to pry him loose from Toronto. The more likely Raptor wing to be moved seems to be Joey Graham who has never really carved out a role for himself. This is especially true if Printezis is looking to cross the pond this next year as well. Still, Delfino is a quality target.

Tony Allen - Never really had much interest in him. He hasn't been all too impressive this year so far with a Boston team in dire need of depth. He could be a below the radar type target like the Spurs like, but I think thats unlikely.

Thabo Sefolosha - Why is he even being brought up? Hes not going to be a free agent for nearly 3 years and the Bulls were pretty high on him last I heard. I doubt they'd trade him for our scraps. If they would I'd be all over that.

Hakim Warrick - I'd definitely be interested in him. And it seems theres a buyers market for him as well. I'm just not sure if we'd still have the chips to buy his services though, all things considered. I don't want to break the team's chemistry by trading good cogs away for a "potentially" good cog. Still, a rock that needs to be overturned.

Sergio Rodriguez - Where are you getting your information? Spanish Chocolate still has two years left on his contract and is restricted after that. Sure I'd like him, but I doubt Portland wants to trade with us and hes NOT a FA like you think.

Alonzo Mourning - We've been after him HARD for the last 2 years or so. He seems content to stay in Miami and lose lose lose. Remember, Zo has a ring, and he won't be lured so easily with promises of 'ships. I imagine we'll make another run at his veteran minimum services this year again though.

[AFBlue]

no doubt he opts out. and i too would love some clarification on buike's contract situation. but from what i can gather from warrior fans on other boards, and larry coon's cba breakdown:


it appears that the warriors will have matching rights.

i think both buike and delfino are longshots, but i think they make the best fits. my first choice would be delfino though. i think he would fit right along with the rest of the team. solid defender, good slasher, decent outside shot. doesnt that just scream spurs material? yes, i know the spurs never seem to do what we think they should (and why should they, they seem to know what the hell they are doing, right?), but with the luxury tax no longer an imminent concern, i hope they choose to splurge a bit and go after on of the more "known" options. and out of that group we've discussed (childress, pietrus, smith, buike, delfino), delfino is by far my favorite right now.

If it's true about Azubuike being "restricted" then it would seem the easiest target of the group would be Pietrus, as he is the only one without the "restricted" label.

I wonder how the Spurs will handle the upcoming off-season in general. There seems to be a major opportunity to overhaul and inject a great deal of youth into the supporting core of this team. Naturally, the Spurs FO will hesitate to "go young" at every potential position and I would anticipate at least one or two of the older guys to be kept....

But, like you, I hope that the Spurs break out the pocket book and take a flier on a younger free agent whether they're restricted or unrestricted.

[AFBlue]

Same guy. It says something that he is performing well in the triangle and the D-fenders kept him on another season. His worst offensive attribute is his flat-trajectory jumper.

Sounds like this guy is a younger and cheaper version of Travis Outlaw. Or is he closer to Trevor Ariza? Either way, it doesn't sound bad...

[AFBlue]

I'd like to see the Spurs go in-house with a "long 3/small ball 4" option by continuing to watch Marcus Williams' development in Austin. While it's clear Marcus needs to gain some weight, he has the length to bother bigger forwards in a small-ball lineup.

I'm sure Chump could shed more light on the possibility of Marcus playing a small-ball 4, but it would seem to be a potential solution.

[Darkwaters]

If it's true about Azubuike being "restricted" then it would seem the easiest target of the group would be Pietrus, as he is the only one without the "restricted" label.

I wonder how the Spurs will handle the upcoming off-season in general. There seems to be a major opportunity to overhaul and inject a great deal of youth into the supporting core of this team. Naturally, the Spurs FO will hesitate to "go young" at every potential position and I would anticipate at least one or two of the older guys to be kept....

But, like you, I hope that the Spurs break out the pocket book and take a flier on a younger free agent whether they're restricted or unrestricted.

Well, there are a couple of interesting themes that could play out this upcoming offseason. And you just might get your wish...just not in the form you thought.

The Spurs have tended to "go young" through the draft n' stash route. But our stockpiles of young international talent are wearing thin. Scola and Mahinmi are no longer in the "farm". Splitter promises to be abroad shortly. Javtokas is no longer a real prospect and Karaulov never panned out in the least. If Tiago joins the silver and black this next year then the team-less Sanikidze is our only foreign prospect in the pipes.

Sounds like its time to restock the shelves.

With three draft picks in this upcoming draft, and three in the draft the year after, I think this could become a recurring theme for the next 24 months. And after passing on Markota and Printezis (and bombing out on Marcus Williams) we're due for some traditional Spurs draft n' stash.

Now, when it comes to FA signings I'm not sure what they'll look to do. It depends on what internationals they stock the shelves with first. But I'm all for a quality young wing on the team NOW (JR Smith, James White! and Marcus Williams...I suppose the 4th time is the charm). But when it comes to picking up additional post players I think we need a savvy vet with some shotblocking skill. And I am all for the retaining of the current PG roster following the eventual promotion of Darius Washington.

[ss1986v2]

If it's true about Azubuike being "restricted" then it would seem the easiest target of the group would be Pietrus, as he is the only one without the "restricted" label.

I wonder how the Spurs will handle the upcoming off-season in general. There seems to be a major opportunity to overhaul and inject a great deal of youth into the supporting core of this team. Naturally, the Spurs FO will hesitate to "go young" at every potential position and I would anticipate at least one or two of the older guys to be kept....

But, like you, I hope that the Spurs break out the pocket book and take a flier on a younger free agent whether they're restricted or unrestricted.
agree completely. and the pietrus thing is what really kills me. physical tools wise, he is probably the best pick-up. and he'd be the easiest to acquire. but he is dead last for me in terms of who id actually like to see here. id be willing to bet a moderately intelligent pair of air jordans has more basketball IQ than him. and he doesnt do any of the little things right (or at all). its a damn shame. so much wasted...

the only positive going into this offseason is the state of the market: its going to be a buyers market this year. with more teams than ever pushing closer to the luxury tax line (and quite a few over already), it appears the nba may have at least a partially "hard" cap (in a way). very few teams have more than the MLE to offer (and most of those have their own FAs to deal with) and many that do have the MLE potentially wont/cant use some/all of it because of the tax implications, ie, not liking to have to pay double for what may amount to an overpaid role player.

so many owners are concerned with the tax line (spurs included) that you may not see too many horribly misplaced deals. i think the days of players like lefrentz and wally getting getting 10 mil per year deals is over (as seen with the reluctance of teams to break the bank on the '04 draft class this offseason). i think owners and gms are getting to the point of really making a stand against unreasonable expectations from players (see: ferry and the cavs). its an interesting trend to follow, and may benefit team like the spurs, who arent in imminent danger from the tax line.

[Darkwaters]

Nobody trades players in the NBA. They trade contracts.

That is only becoming more and more true.

[AFBlue]

Nobody trades players in the NBA. They trade contracts.

That is only becoming more and more true.

Agree to some extent.

I think there are still those deals for picks/prospects and those deals for disgruntled superstars, but I'd agree with you that you rarely see deals for "role players" that is not motivated financially at its base.

Take, for example, the Hermann/Brezec for Nazr deal. It has been clear since nearly right after the Pistons signed Nazr that he didn't belong and that his contract would be a burden. They finally found someone desperate enough to take the remaining years of his contract and they just so happened to get a fairly decent player in return. But at it's base, the long-term contract was the motivation for the move.

[AFBlue]

agree completely. and the pietrus thing is what really kills me. physical tools wise, he is probably the best pick-up. and he'd be the easiest to acquire. but he is dead last for me in terms of who id actually like to see here. id be willing to bet a moderately intelligent pair of air jordans has more basketball IQ than him. and he doesnt do any of the little things right (or at all). its a damn shame. so much wasted....

I don't think he'd be a total waste, but I wonder at what cost does the risk of him never "getting it" become too great. For truly unrestricted free agents though, you make a good point about the market. Unless someone offers Pietrus a full MLE deal, I would expect a bunch of teams to be in on grabbing him.....and given the Spurs' reputation as championship contenders and international-friendly, I think the Spurs could be competitive if they decided to persue.


the only positive going into this offseason is the state of the market: its going to be a buyers market this year. with more teams than ever pushing closer to the luxury tax line (and quite a few over already), it appears the nba may have at least a partially "hard" cap (in a way). very few teams have more than the MLE to offer (and most of those have their own FAs to deal with) and many that do have the MLE potentially wont/cant use some/all of it because of the tax implications, ie, not liking to have to pay double for what may amount to an overpaid role player.

so many owners are concerned with the tax line (spurs included) that you may not see too many horribly misplaced deals. i think the days of players like lefrentz and wally getting getting 10 mil per year deals is over (as seen with the reluctance of teams to break the bank on the '04 draft class this offseason). i think owners and gms are getting to the point of really making a stand against unreasonable expectations from players (see: ferry and the cavs). its an interesting trend to follow, and may benefit team like the spurs, who arent in imminent danger from the tax line.

Like I said above, I agree with you that truly unrestricted free agents should come at a bargain price. But, with so many "restricted" free agents on the market, I think you could see alot of teams returning their players....as with what happened to Varejao. The "restricted" status of so many coveted FAs makes me think it won't be quite as strong a buyer's market as it should be.

[Mr. Body]

Marcus Dove, mentioned earlier, would be fantastic. Very tall, long, fantastic defender, could be had early in the 2nd.

[ss1986v2]

Like I said above, I agree with you that truly unrestricted free agents should come at a bargain price. But, with so many "restricted" free agents on the market, I think you could see alot of teams returning their players....as with what happened to Varejao. The "restricted" status of so many coveted FAs makes me think it won't be quite as strong a buyer's market as it should be.
my mind is pretty dead set on the pietrus issue. hes a shoe (intelligence wise). he will always be a shoe. but what do i know. maybe the kid really is the mj of france.

as for the restricted issue, you are right. thats why i put delfino and buike as longshots. the only way you are going to pry away those kind of players is too offer near full to full MLE. but the spurs are in position to do that, if they needed too. many teams, on the other hand, cant/wont (due to being up to/over the tax line already). thats where teams that are in the spurs position are going to have an advantage: with everyone looking to keep spending down across the board, a team willing to spend even just a bit more than the rest has a much better shot at a variety of players. whether or not they can get them or not is another matter, as you have stated.

as for the major RFAs (deng, iggy, okafor, ect...), i dont expect any of them to make any moves. the teams will remain firm in their position, and the players will have to either give in and compromise (thanks to the high number of quality free agents and the limited amount of teams with cap space to spend on them) or do something we havent seen too much to date: players taking the QO to play the market as an unrestricted FA the year after. if that actually happens, it would be a huge shift in free agency in the nba. it would no doubt be very interesting to watch over the next couple of years.

[Darkwaters]

Marcus Dove, mentioned earlier, would be fantastic. Very tall, long, fantastic defender, could be had early in the 2nd.

I've heard he does have a few attitude problems though. Still, despite a complete lack of an offensive game hes a guy I wouldn't mind having on my squad.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marcus-Dove-1084/

[Vinny Del Negro]

Aw I thought this was gonna be another Spanoulis thread.

[Darkwaters]

Aw I thought this was gonna be another Spanoulis thread.

I'm sure KillBillPana would have betrayed his true intent with a not-so-subtle title.

[AFBlue]

One kid I'm intrigued by for a Fin/Barry replacement is Gerald Green.

He has a silky smooth game, excellent athleticism, and great defensive potential. His biggest question is maturity/BBIQ....but he's young enough to mold and shape. If he ever "gets it", he'll be one hell of a basketball player.

To make things even better, he is an unrestricted free agent. Given the type of players that the Spurs are reportedly looking at in the NBADL, this guy fits the mold.

Doubt it's gonna happen, but it'd be nice....

[ss1986v2]

One kid I'm intrigued by for a Fin/Barry replacement is Gerald Green.

He has a silky smooth game, excellent athleticism, and great defensive potential. His biggest question is maturity/BBIQ....but he's young enough to mold and shape. If he ever "gets it", he'll be one hell of a basketball player.

To make things even better, he is an unrestricted free agent. Given the type of players that the Spurs are reportedly looking at in the NBADL, this guy fits the mold.

he is on the short list of unrestricted swing guys this offseason that at least warrant a look. but i lump him in the same pile with pietrus. he can dunk. he as a decent enough set shot. did i mention he can dunk? if so, and thats where the positives end. he can play very selfishly at times (which can be seen a bit in a career ast/to ratio below 1, just like pietrus), he is a subpar/unwilling defender (but has potential, just like pietrus...), and is explosive but lacks ability to finish in the lane at times (think james white v2.0). his only other redeeming quality is that he is still young enough that he might be able to be saved (if you actually believe in the potential that hes been hyped for). id take a chance on him with an udoka type deal (1-3 mil over 1-2 years), but im not hitching the "future swing guy" wagon to this horse.

[AFBlue]

he is on the short list of unrestricted swing guys this offseason that at least warrant a look. but i lump him in the same pile with pietrus. he can dunk. he as a decent enough set shot. did i mention he can dunk? if so, and thats where the positives end. he can play very selfishly at times (which can be seen a bit in a career ast/to ratio below 1, just like pietrus), he is a subpar/unwilling defender (but has potential, just like pietrus...), and is explosive but lacks ability to finish in the lane at times (think james white v2.0). his only other redeeming quality is that he is still young enough that he might be able to be saved (if you actually believe in the potential that hes been hyped for). id take a chance on him with an udoka type deal (1-3 mil over 1-2 years), but im not hitching the "future swing guy" wagon to this horse.

I lump him less with Pietrus (who is already 25 and has been playing regular minutes in this league for years) and moreso with another guy you mentioned....James White.

Superior athleticism, defensive potential, and attitude (not necessarily a good thing) with one main exception.... Gerald Green is a great shooter with a smooth stroke, which is something White never had.

White seemed content to be an athlete that played basketball versus a basketball player that just happened to be a stud athlete.

And I'm not "hitching my wagon" to this horse persay, but I do think he's an interesting option because of his youth, potential, and unrestricted status.

Like I said, I doubt it will happen because he'll probably get offered more money elsewhere...and my guess is he's not mature enough to take the smaller deal for a chance at being a piece to a championship.

But he does deserve a look...

[Bruno]

Quinton Hosley could be an interesting player to sign next summer. He is currently putting great number in Turkey where he plays this year.

[tav1]

DarkWaters, thanks for the clarification on Thabo and Spanish Chocolate. Truth is, I was operating from memory, which clearly failed me. For the most past, I agree with your assesment of each player you listed. Grant me a little latitude, I'm shooting from the hip.

Re: Tony Allen. Two things spark my interest in him. Prior to his injury last year, he looked very good. He gets to the foul line and his outside shot is improving. He probably won't have his game back til late this season or next year, which should keep his price tag down. But more importantly, prior to his injury, he was a crack defender. He's got a big body and good lateral movement. Couple his minutes with Ginobli's and you'd get a lot from that position. And the fact that Allen gets to the hoop could allow Ginobli to preserve his body a bit more.

I have no idea if his basketball IQ is very good---he is young enough that I doubt he understands the game as much as Pop would want.
Nevertheless, he deserves watching.

*************
Gerald Green is out to lunch. From what I can tell he's lazy-minded. If he were dirt cheap, maybe he'd be worth a look. There is always the chance that something will click as he matures as a person. The problem is he'll want a multi-year deal and he can't play D-league. Yikes. James White with a jump shot is still James White.

[ss1986v2]

well, i disagree with the "great shooter" gerald green thing i guess. ive never seen the games where he lights it up, only the nights when he goes like 2-11 with two monster dunks and a bunch of missed open jumpers.

but his numbers dont back up the "great shooter" thing either. last year, he shot 42% from the floor, 37% from 3, 80% from the line, with a efg% of 48% and a ts% of 52%. those numbers would lead to the "decent enough" that i evaluated him at, at least i think. compare those numbers to another player im not a big fan of: last year pietrus put up 49% from the floor, 39% from 3, 65% from the line, with a efg% of 57% and a ts% of 59%. now lets look a "great shooter": last year brent barry shot 47% from the floor, 45% from 3, 88% from the line, with a efg% of 63% and a ts% of 67%.

by the way, i dont want you to think ive been taking digs at you directly in this thread (most of my posts have been direct responses to thing you have wrote). im just a very bored basketball fan here in december, and ive been spending a lot of time looking to next year already. just enjoying a bit of debate between informed fans.

[TheProfessor]

Quinton Hosley could be an interesting player to sign next summer. He is currently putting great number in Turkey where he plays this year.
Hosley was a guy that was supposed to draw some attention in the draft last year, but Dominic McGuire had those "NBA attributes" everyone looks for - length and incredible athleticism. While Hosley does not have that kind of potential, he may put it together faster, as his numbers overseas attest. An interesting suggestion, but with Ime already here, I doubt it happens.

I'm calling Marcus Dove with the Raptors' pick.

[Darkwaters]

I'm calling Marcus Dove with the Raptors' pick.

I like him a lot. But he does have some issues go as far as attitude. Still, hes such a defensive stud that I think he would warrant the Raptors pick easily. No complaints there.

[Darkwaters]

What do we think the going rate will be on Hermann next season? I wouldn't mind giving him a try and seeing what happens...for the right price of course. In fact, lets pick up Delfino AND Hermann and we'll be loaded up with Argentines.

[ss1986v2]

What do we think the going rate will be on Hermann next season? I wouldn't mind giving him a try and seeing what happens...for the right price of course. In fact, lets pick up Delfino AND Hermann and we'll be loaded up with Argentines.
where do i sign?

[Cry Havoc]

I think Andres Nocioni is now available for trade from the Bulls.

Anyone want to take a chance on him?

[tav1]

WIW: earlier this season Pop was praising Zelimir Obradovic's offense and the players were talking about how much they were being pushed to push the ball. I wonder how much of this will factor into free agency. The Spurs are playing more small ball this year than last and Elson, Mahinmi and Splitter are all quick bigs. Are the Spurs tipping their hand?

Maybe the Spurs are planning on targeting guys that can thrive within their defensive schemes but that can also play more Euro in terms of pace.

I doubt Obradovic could ever be persauded to work for the Spurs, either in the front office or, possibly, on the bench as Pop's eventual successor (Obradovic is accomplsihed but young and a possible jump to the NBA might appeal to him; but why would he take an assistant position). Nevertheless, if Pop does intend on stealing from him, that would affect some free agent evaluations.

[ss1986v2]

I think Andres Nocioni is now available for trade from the Bulls.

Anyone want to take a chance on him?
i love nocioni, but i dont think we have the pieces to swing a trade for him. he does fit the mythical "long three" idea, but id personally rather have a true sf. and nocioni generally plays better when he gets PT at pf.

[AFBlue]

i love nocioni, but i dont think we have the pieces to swing a trade for him. he does fit the mythical "long three" idea, but id personally rather have a true sf. and nocioni generally plays better when he gets PT at pf.

Barry and Bonner works financially. It gives the Bulls another big body and an expiring contract to allow them the financial freedom to extend offers to Deng & Gordon.

Throw in a first-round pick and maybe it would bring them to the table.

Of course....it's still a longshot from that point.

[AFBlue]

by the way, i dont want you to think ive been taking digs at you directly in this thread (most of my posts have been direct responses to thing you have wrote). im just a very bored basketball fan here in december, and ive been spending a lot of time looking to next year already. just enjoying a bit of debate between informed fans.

No offense taken. I understand that it's all wild speculation at this point in the season and I wouldn't expect the Spurs FO to make a move that most of us would see coming.

[Mr. Body]

Gerald Green appears to have no intention of putting in the work needed to be a basketball player. He wants it on a silver charger.

Marcus Dove, despite some attitude, at least wants to win games, it seems. Absolutely worth the Toronto pick if he lasts that long. He's listed in places as 6'9" and is as defense-first as Bowen is.

Otherwise, the 2007 draft looks like slim pickings for SFs with any size whatsoever. An entirely too early guess would have us taking a SG-type or swingman. Or, hell, trading the pick in a package for a more veteran player.

The free agent market this summer will be interesting. A good number of young players with not a lot of money to go around. It'll depend on whether the Spurs want to spend the MLE.

[ChumpDumper]

Celtics Waive Rookie Forward Wallace after Five Months
Posted Dec 18 2007 8:12PM

BOSTON, Dec. 17 (AP) -- The Boston Celtics are waiving rookie forward Brandon Wallace, cutting their roster down to 13 on Tuesday.

The 6-foot-9 Wallace, who was undrafted, signed a two-year contract with the Celtics in July out of South Carolina.

Wallace has not played in a regular season game. He averaged 1.2 points per game during the preseason and was assigned to the team's NBA Development League affiliate in Utah on Nov. 13. There, he averaged 12.5 points and 9.2 rebounds in six games for the Flash.

http://www.nba.com/nba_news/celtics_waivewallace.html

Needs work on his perimeter game, but he is extremely athletic. Looked raw but nice in the Flash game I saw on NBAtv. He'll probably need to play at that level for awhile.

[Mr. Body]

Why does Boston do this if they're already below the roster limit? Simply don't like him?

[AFBlue]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_a...tarence_kinsey/


Grizzlies Waive Tarence Kinsey
December 18, 2007 - 4:30 pm
RealGM Staff Report -
The Memphis Grizzlies announced today that they have requested waivers on guard Tarence Kinsey.

Kinsey, a 6-6, 189-pound guard, was averaging 3.6 points and 1.1 rebounds in 8.7 minutes in 11 appearances this season. An undrafted free agent out of South Carolina, he averaged 7.7 points and 2.0 rebounds in his rookie season with the Grizzlies in 2006-07. Kinsey came on strong late in the season when he was named the NBA’s Western Conference Rookie of the Month after averaging 18.8 points, 5.0 rebounds, 3.0 assists and 2.63 steals last April.

The current roster stands at 13 players.

Not for the long 3, but there has been some discussion in this thread about swingmen. Kinsey was a standout player last year that proved he could score in this league. Any thoughts on him?

[Mr. Body]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_a...tarence_kinsey/


Not for the long 3, but there has been some discussion in this thread about swingmen. Kinsey was a standout player last year that proved he could score in this league. Any thoughts on him?

Just a memory that the Spurs have had interest in the past.

Spurs badly need to plan for the near future, when Finley and Barry will be gone and Bowen will have one foot out. As soon as next year. I don't think Kinsey is any kind of solution, certainly not as a starter.

[Darkwaters]

I don't think Kinsey is any kind of solution, certainly not as a starter.

And Marcus Williams was supposed to be? Either this team was completely misinformed about Williams, or they have something else up their sleeve. And frankly, I don't think anybody in the front office was seriously thinking Marcus Williams could crack our starting lineup within a year or two at ANY point in the evaluation process.

[colargol]

what about ron artest? he's currently earning $8million a year for the kings. he can opt out of his contract next year and we will have empty seats on the bench next year. possibilities? or should we not even consider him?

pros:
*will definitely up our defense with him guarding the post.
*adds someone who can post up.
*he wants a championship.

cons:
*kings will definitely match any offer that is reasonable. he's severely underpaid at $8million
*past history.
*tendency to demand the ball.

the big issue of course is cap space.

Advance scouts chart every play call of their opponents. They see the team's hand signal, and then they know where everyone should go. And then they watch. Sometimes what they see is that some players are breaking plays. Ian Thomsen of Sports Illustrated: "'When Theus calls the play and it isn't for [Ron] Artest, he's so reluctant to let them get into a play he's not involved with,'' said an NBA advance scout who has been studying Artest recently. 'He'll be running down the floor and he should go through to the opposite corner, but instead he'll turn and post up. He might be open and he definitely is good enough that he can be effective in a quick post-up, but that's not the play. I can't tell you how many times that happened. He is playing like a very selfish player right now. Maybe he doesn't like the team, or he doesn't think the team is good and so he has to put up numbers to make up for it. I knew he was a time bomb in the past, but I always respected his game. But he has gone down a notch or two because of the selfish attitude.'"


If it's true Ron Artest can't even be consider as a possibility .....

[Horry For 3!]

Marcus Dove, mentioned earlier, would be fantastic. Very tall, long, fantastic defender, could be had early in the 2nd.
Dove is an excellent defender but thats all he really gives. Durant said he was the toughest player he played against last year.

[mountainballer]

my guess is James Jones.
he can opt out 2008 and I think he will do so.
the Blazers are stacked with many great young prospects at the wing and Jones will be realistic enough to see that he could play a more important role with another team (like the Spurs). if he doesn't opt out 2008 he might find himself without minutes in the 08-09 season and enter the strong 2009 FA market with bad numbers.

Spurs were very interested in him 2005 and I guess there was a good chance to get him if they didn't enter the Finley sweepstakes. (the contract he signed with the Suns was much in the typical Spurs price range).
IMO he would fit nice. provides the most important quality of a Spurs wing (long range shooting ability) and is decent in most other categories. and he's really "long". (measured 6-7.25 without shoes and has an outstanding 7-2.5 wingspan).
it should be possible to get him for half MLE or slightly more.
(and yes, I know it was him who caused Tim's injury)

[mountainballer]

While he's not as tall as you'd like for a Long Three, he's definitely thick and strong enough to fill that role.


he does have nice size for a SF, better than many other of the mentioned players and he has a great leap. (was a very good rebounder at LSU, 7-8 RPG, if I remember right)

[Darkwaters]

my guess is James Jones.
he can opt out 2008 and I think he will do so.
the Blazers are stacked with many great young prospects at the wing and Jones will be realistic enough to see that he could play a more important role with another team (like the Spurs). if he doesn't opt out 2008 he might find himself without minutes in the 08-09 season and enter the strong 2009 FA market with bad numbers.

Spurs were very interested in him 2005 and I guess there was a good chance to get him if they didn't enter the Finley sweepstakes. (the contract he signed with the Suns was much in the typical Spurs price range).
IMO he would fit nice. provides the most important quality of a Spurs wing (long range shooting ability) and is decent in most other categories. and he's really "long". (measured 6-7.25 without shoes and has an outstanding 7-2.5 wingspan).
it should be possible to get him for half MLE or slightly more.
(and yes, I know it was him who caused Tim's injury)


He does kind of seem like an under the radar Spurs' type pick-up. But he'll be walking away from 3M if he opts out. How much do we really think the Spurs would offer him? We only threw 1M at Udoka and a mere 3M at Michael Finley. Unless hes interested in 1.5-2M per then I don't think he comes.

[SenorSpur]

my guess is James Jones.
he can opt out 2008 and I think he will do so.
the Blazers are stacked with many great young prospects at the wing and Jones will be realistic enough to see that he could play a more important role with another team (like the Spurs). if he doesn't opt out 2008 he might find himself without minutes in the 08-09 season and enter the strong 2009 FA market with bad numbers.

Spurs were very interested in him 2005 and I guess there was a good chance to get him if they didn't enter the Finley sweepstakes. (the contract he signed with the Suns was much in the typical Spurs price range).
IMO he would fit nice. provides the most important quality of a Spurs wing (long range shooting ability) and is decent in most other categories. and he's really "long". (measured 6-7.25 without shoes and has an outstanding 7-2.5 wingspan).
it should be possible to get him for half MLE or slightly more.
(and yes, I know it was him who caused Tim's injury)

Hmmmm. James Jones, huh? Very interesting. I never considered this guy. Sounds like a very intriguing prospect for the Spurs. With the emergence of Travis Outlaw and with Channing Frye on board, I would guess it would be very tough for Nate McMillian to find minutes for them all. I just wonder if he's far enough under the radar where there will be a limited amount of bidding for his services.

With so many teams having limited dollars to spend, the Spurs should have their pick of many talented and athletic swingmen at a fairly reasonable price. They have NO excuses not to upgrade this position over the summer.

[tav1]

I've been thinking about this thread, and whomever posted that James Jones was ideal is right on. I watched part of last night's Portland game and was reminded just how nicely he would fit the Spurs' system. He's unrestricted, long, a competent defender and excellent shooter and would nicely replace Finley. I also think that he could play the 4 in an uptempo small ball situation helping ease some of the spacing burden that will be left when Horry retires, and, who knows, possibly freeing us from the burden that is Bonner. I wonder if the Spurs might be able to pawn him off the Trailbalzers between now and February.

[ss1986v2]

im a big james jones fan. but id really like to see what he can do over the course of the entire season before i put him above guys like deflino or buike on my "want" list.

right now, the guy is shooting outside of his mind (52% from the floor, 52.3% from 3!!!). but his career number are much more humble (40% from the floor, 39% from 3), but the outside shot is very respectable (which is probably one of the most important factors for wings on this team). plus the unrestricted part makes him much more obtainable than most of the other top players. if he can keep up solid PT and decent numbers in portland this year, id be happy to make a run at him in the offseason.

[tav1]

Jones was solid in Phoenix, too. I remember during the synthetic ball ballyhoo Jones didn't lose his minutes, eventhough his percentages were way down, because of his basketball IQ and defense, which isn't saying much because he was playing in Phoenix...

Nevertheless, his resume puts him atop my personal, no one cares wish list. In terms of obtainable guys, I like Allen and Ariza after him with players like Del Fino taking up the rear. I don't trust anyone that plays for Nellie--those stats are inflated and their system simply does not allow for a good read as to how they'd play in more controlled sets. I'd almost rather see the Spurs bring on a no name European or d-leaguer. At least the commitment and cost is low in that situation.

Right now--bound to change with each month--I'm cheering for Jones and Allen to replace Fin and Barry, Udoka to stay (his defense was impressive last night; he'll figure out the system in time) and Bonner to get traded for cap space. That means we'd have to sign another insurance big along to play behind Duncan, Oberto, Splitter and (maybe) Mahinmi. I'd just assume give Horry and Bonner's minutes to someone like Jones in small ball sets if no true big is available.

The jury is still out on D-Wash.

[SenorSpur]

im a big james jones fan. but id really like to see what he can do over the course of the entire season before i put him above guys like deflino or buike on my "want" list.

right now, the guy is shooting outside of his mind (52% from the floor, 52.3% from 3!!!). but his career number are much more humble (40% from the floor, 39% from 3), but the outside shot is very respectable (which is probably one of the most important factors for wings on this team). plus the unrestricted part makes him much more obtainable than most of the other top players. if he can keep up solid PT and decent numbers in portland this year, id be happy to make a run at him in the offseason.

Personally, I wouldn't put Defino of Azibuike in front of him. Jones has more "skins on the wall" and appears to have more of the pure, natural talent and skill that the Spurs so desparately need than either of those two.

[ss1986v2]

im a pretty big jones fan, but im not so sure about the whole "pure, natural talent and skill" thing though. kid is long, althetic enough, and shoots it pretty well from the outside (career 39%). he has a ast/to ration above 1, a lower pf/gm number than some, and a good stroke at the FT line. all of which i love. but he isnt a great rebounder for having all that size and length (career best of 3.4 @ 24 mpg) which is something the spurs could really use an infusion of. plus, even with his phenomenal start this season, he has a bowen-esque fg% for his career (40.2%, which is actually lower than bowen's 40.9%). and while i would never call his defense "subpar", i wouldnt rank it as "standout" either. nothing major, but just a few concerns overall.

and as i said, if he can keep up a good clip this season (45%+ from the floor, 40%+ from 3), id gladly take him without hesitation (at the right price that is). but i still really like delfino and buike.

delfino is a physical presence (6'6", 230, rather strong and very athletic). foul rate has been higher this season (to be expected), but its getting better as the year goes by and his career ast/to number are favorable. plus he is a very good rebounder (a need for the spurs) and a very solid defender. his offensive strengths are 3pt shooting and slashing (two things the spurs offense is built toward). and im sure he would mesh well with the team chemistry wise (manu and oberto helping greatly with that aspect). his biggest flaw is his shot selection. he started the season red hot, so no one was complaining, but he has hit a slump, and now hes getting called on it. but its just like with finley and the other spurs: keep shooting, if you pass on open shots, it'll get you pulled faster than taking and missing those same shots. as long as he can play within the offense, it wont be an issue.

buike is a bit of a wildcard. i like him, but not nearly as much as delfino (and possible james if he keeps things up this season). great frame (6'5", 220), surprisingly polished looking offensive game (great shooting percentages, both in the d-league and the nba so far), and another very solid rebounder. biggest issues are his ability (or lack there of) to take over games and his predilection to defer too much at times (his coach tubby smith put it best, saying, "he looks like tarzan and plays like jane.") and his defense. both might not be issues on the spurs though: spurs would rather he defer than try and take over games by himself and how can you say someone in nellie-ball is playing bad defense when no one is even playing defense j/k.

but again, jones would come much easier then either of those two (and probably a bit cheaper too). i wouldnt picket outside the spurs offices if they signed jones, id just probably rather have delfino on this team (and maybe buike if he keeps things going and jones slumps a bit the rest of the year).

[mathbzh]

Even if Udoka fails in SA, I rather see Spurs going after a player like Gelabale than Pietrus. Gelabale will be available this summer for a cheap contract and Spurs were interested by him in the past. I don't know if it's still the case.


Gelabale could be a good choice. He is a good defender and a smart player. I believe he would flourish in the Spurs system. Give him a cheap contract and the opportunity to show what he has in the tank.

[SenorSpur]

The prerequisites of a player at that desired position would be long, athletic, decent defender and can hit the 3-ball.

[Darkwaters]

There is another wing player that is now openly out on the market: Rasual Butler. Hes 6'7 with really long arms and a quality 3 pt shooter. Hoopshype is reporting today that the Hornets are looking to move him.

...of course, I was advocating for him 3 weeks ago.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2127548&postcount=28

[AFBlue]

There is another wing player that is now openly out on the market: Rasual Butler. Hes 6'7 with really long arms and a quality 3 pt shooter. Hoopshype is reporting today that the Hornets are looking to move him.

...of course, I was advocating for him 3 weeks ago.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2127548&postcount=28

Butler is a NICE choice....

Elson for Butler!

DO THIS DEAL NOW SPURS!

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Butler is a NICE choice....

Elson for Butler!

DO THIS DEAL NOW SPURS!
If we trade for Butler would that mean no more DerMarr?