rockets really really suck

[itzsoweezee]

aside from yao ming, that entire lineup should be scrapped.
van gundy must be laughing his ass off.

[yeahone]

hmm, the other texan teams at this moment suck

[SpursIndonesia]

I watched the game live here in y country, boy, they couldn't even bring the ball upcourt with a grandma guarding their PG -and Terry is not all that far fetched compared to one, LOL. :lol

Watching Francis, James, Head, the three headed monsters handled the playmaking duty is really a torture to say it the least. They got no consistent outside shooting, Bonzi's playing like a beheaded chicken, TMac's so lifeless, dang, Yao must be retired in 2-3 yrs so tired carrying this dysfunctional team. :rolleyes

[mavsfan1000]

This team is built for Van Gundy. Not Rick Adleman.

[itzsoweezee]

This team is built for Van Gundy. Not Rick Adleman.

the roster sucks. but a good coach adapts to the roster. van gundy was able to win with it.

[SpursIndonesia]

Hey, how about a trade ? A coach trade it is. Houston sends Adolfman, Dallas sends Johnson, fair deal ? :lol

Avery will stick his discipline and knows a thing or two about utilizing a dominant bigman offensively, while Adelman would love all the athleticism & perimeter shooting that Dallas posses. :smokin

[Dre_7]

I thought Houston was supposed to be the 2nd best team in the division. :lol

And yet another solid performance by Luis Scola.

[Findog]

Hey, how about a trade ? A coach trade it is. Houston sends Adolfman, Dallas sends Johnson, fair deal ? :lol

Avery will stick his discipline and knows a thing or two about utilizing a dominant bigman offensively, while Adelman would love all the athleticism & perimeter shooting that Dallas posses. :smokin

fuck that. he's their problem.

[Matchman]

Yao leads us in Points, Rebounds, Blocks, and assists...
wait what the fuck (<= yes i have to type that out).... did i just say assist?
yes, Yao did lead us in assist...
thats sad for Francis, James, and McGrady.
Maybe thats why they cant beat out Alston to start at point guard.

[SpursIndonesia]

fuck that. he's their problem.

Hey, hey, it is supposed to be the awesome Texas Triangle, isn't it ? :oink

Now it's turning into a dynasty, a powerhouse, and a creampuff. We need to get the house in order, right ? :drunk

[Roxsfan]

Yes, they have some major issues right now :toast

[yeahone]

Hey, how about a trade ? A coach trade it is. Houston sends Adolfman, Dallas sends Johnson, fair deal ? :lol

Avery will stick his discipline and knows a thing or two about utilizing a dominant bigman offensively, while Adelman would love all the athleticism & perimeter shooting that Dallas posses. :smokin

why not a 3 way trade. pop to rockets. alderman to dallas and avery to spurs

[m33p0]

hmm, the other texan teams at this moment suck

aye... should we tell them they need a true point guard to take the ball out of mcgrady's hand and that the same is true for the mavericks because harris isn't a true point guard either? i hear kidd might be available.

[m33p0]

why not a 3 way trade. pop to rockets. alderman to dallas and avery to spurs


the hell? leave Pop outta this. Spurs are just doing fine with him, thank you.

[balli]

I don't think there's a team in this league I rather be be a fan of any less than the Rockets. I couldn't imagine how disappointed their fan-base is. I would go check out the clutchcity forum, but I'm not sure I want to see all the blood.

[lefty]

This team is built for Van Gundy. Not Rick Adleman.

:tu

[JamStone]

I say they need a shake up. No way should the Rockets be a .500 team.

They should start:

Mike James
Bonzi
T-Mac
Hayes
Yao

[SpursIndonesia]

aye... should we tell them they need a true point guard to take the ball out of mcgrady's hand and that the same is true for the mavericks because harris isn't a true point guard either? i hear kidd might be available.

I think Alston & Harris, while having weaknesses of their own as a playmaker, are real PG, just as real as Tony of ours. Alston just can't shoot, while Harris is still maturing as a starting PG of the league.

[balli]

Admittedly I haven't seen them play much this year so I don't really know exactly where they are lacking. Nevertheless, my question is why these guys are so damn terible to begin with. Someone said they need a true-point guard and I think that would help, but how many teams in this league don't have true point guards? A lot of them get by without true PG's. Hell look at Tony Parker. Guys like Mike James, Rafer Alston and Steve Francis should at least be servicable when surrounded by other talent. Especially since there are three of them you can go to in case one or two of them are having an off night.

Like what happened to Francis that made him suck so bad. He's been a selfish dickhead in the past, which has been his problem, but it seems like in lieu of selfishness since he has no cred left he should still be able to contribute in some small but meaningful way.

Same with Bonzi Wells. I thought his problems were all JVG related. I mean what happened between two short years ago in Sacto and now, that his game would drop off this much?

Mike James had that great season in Toronto. I realize it was on a bad team, but still. He shouldn't be completely worthless as a western conference player.

I don't know what happened to their team or why guys seem to be regressing so much, but I don't think a simple trade is going to help much. It seems like the whole culture of the team's been twisted on it's ear. I think they might be fucked.

[balli]

I think Alston & Harris, while having weaknesses of their own as a playmaker, are real PG, just as real as Tony of ours. Alston just can't shoot, while Harris is still maturing as a starting PG of the league.

Tony is not a true PG. He is an extremely quick guard, that finishes extremely well around the basket and shoots well from the outside, while getting his assists from within a framework of the entire team's offense. A true PG breaks down the opposing defense while crafting near the entire offense set for his team. A Kidd, Nash, Deron or Cp3, he is not.

[Indazone]

The fans at clutchcity.com are out for blood. It's point the finger time at Yao, T-Mac, Francis, Head, Alston, Battier and yes Coach Adleman. Look this isn't hard to figure out. Rockets were a playoff team last year with same players.

[Dex]

It actually amuses me a bit.

People had given this club the Paper Championship at the start of this season. Guess sometimes plans don't go quite as planned.

See: Nick van Exel, '05-06'

[K-State Spur]

This team is built for Van Gundy. Not Rick Adleman.

is that really the case though? battier doesn't seem to work well in that system, but the rest of their role players came from similar systems and/or were acquired since adelman took over.

of course, the biggest fish out of water is Yao. he's actually played well, but his presence also prevents them from doing some of the things that RA has typically wanted to do.

[itzsoweezee]

is that really the case though? battier doesn't seem to work well in that system, but the rest of their role players came from similar systems and/or were acquired since adelman took over.

of course, the biggest fish out of water is Yao. he's actually played well, but his presence also prevents them from doing some of the things that RA has typically wanted to do.


if your "system" can't win with a big man that gives you 23, 12, and 2, then you have no fucking business coaching an nba team.

van gundy, on the other hand, has won everywhere he's coached.

[Indazone]

Like I said, not too hard to figure out. It's on Adleman

[Cry Havoc]

Tony is not a true PG. He is an extremely quick guard, that finishes extremely well around the basket and shoots well from the outside, while getting his assists from within a framework of the entire team's offense. A true PG breaks down the opposing defense while crafting near the entire offense set for his team. A Kidd, Nash, Deron or Cp3, he is not.

Listen to this guy talk like he knows what a "true" point guard is.

As if their is such a thing as a "true" player at any position.

Tony has enough rings and a Finals MVP to shut anyone up who says he isn't a "true" anything.

[Roxsfan]

if your "system" can't win with a big man that gives you 23, 12, and 2, then you have no fucking business coaching an nba team.
van gundy, on the other hand, has won everywhere he's coached.

good pt,


jvg was a good rocket reg. season coach, but not in the postseason

[balli]

Listen to this guy talk like he knows what a "true" point guard is.

As if their is such a thing as a "true" player at any position.

Tony has enough rings and a Finals MVP to shut anyone up who says he isn't a "true" anything.

The finals MVP was a joke. Everyone knows it should've been Duncan.

I never see him break ankles or throw cool passes. In fact, I can't think of a single time I've seen Tony Parker deliver a jaw-dropping assist. He doesn't have great court vision. I haven't seen him make a dude fall on his ass though awesome ball handling or the ability to fake him out of his skin. I haven't seen him create his own outside shot. Call him a "true" pg if you want, but you're wrong.

I've seen him blow past some defenders with speed and finish in the paint. I've seen him come off some screens and knock down some jumpshots. I've seen him lob the ball into the post for Tim to isolate. Look Tony Parker is a very, very good player. But your out your fucking mind if you think he's a traditional, pass-first PG capable of creating much for anyone else, or even himself besides layups. (at least in the way Nash, Deron, Paul and Kidd are capable)


And if you want to debate the notion that there aren't traditonal or "true" models for every position, go ahead, but it's a fucking stupid thing to think. Especially when it comes to PG's. By your logic Allen Iverson is as much of a PG as John Stockton was. Give me a fuckin break.

*Edit*

What I find hilarious is that I just went to ESPN and checked out the Steve Nash analysis of other PG's. Here's what he said about Deron.


he's also a true point guard with good vision.


Here's what you said about the existence of "true" players


As if their is such a thing as a "true" player at any position.

In the future, don't challenge me on the employment of widely used vernacular and concepts. How embarrasingly stupid.

[K-State Spur]

The finals MVP was a joke. Everyone knows it should've been Duncan.

I never see him break ankles or throw cool passes. In fact, I can't think of a single time I've seen Tony Parker deliver a jaw-dropping assist. He doesn't have great court vision. I haven't seen him make a dude fall on his ass though awesome ball handling or the ability to fake him out of his skin. I haven't seen him create his own outside shot. Call him a "true" pg if you want, but you're wrong.




actually, i don't think anybody disputes that parker deserved the MVP last year.

the rest of your criteria is good as a standard for Sportscenter's top plays, not necessarily for a great PG.

when he penetrates the lane (at will mind you), forces the defense to collapse and kicks to the corner for a wide open 3 - does it really matter whether or not that assist dropped your jaw?

he may not be a "traditional pass first PG", but if you don't think he presents opportunities for other's, you're nuts - or just ignorant towards how to run an offense in basketball.

[balli]

actually, i don't think anybody disputes that parker deserved the MVP last year.

Then how after he won it most of the NBA analysts, most of the NBA beat writers, my own friends, me myself and pretty much everyone else I ever heard commentate on it said he shouldn't have. At least that's how I remember it.

Obviously some people thought Tony Parker shoul;d have won, but to say there wasn't ANY DISPUTE is just foolish. You really think winning or getting to the finals had more to do with TP than Timmy D? Well... oooookaaay. I guess that's your opinion.

Here's Mark Stein's-

Tim Duncan. Because I'm the last guy who can get away with voting for Bruce Bowen ... and because Duncan's mere presence helped Tony Parker get loose in the first two games ... and because defense is winning this championship. We all know the Spurs' D is built around TD.
Here's Ric Bucher's-

Tim Duncan. As terrific as it is to see Tony Parker prove himself in an NBA Finals, what the Spurs (Tony included) do begins and ends with Duncan. A vote in their locker room wouldn't be close.
Here's Henry Abbott's-

Tim Duncan. He defines the Spurs' defense and makes or facilitates a huge percentage of their points. I appreciate John Hollinger's case for Tony Parker as co-MVP of the Finals. Pending what happens in the rest of the series, I think that would undersell Duncan. Admit that if you were Coach Gregg Popovich and had to face the Cavs in a seven-game series without one of those two players, Parker would be on the bench, right?
Here's Greg Anthony's-

Tim Duncan. Yes, Tony Parker has scored more than anyone else. But Duncan is the guy that dominates both ends. He's the only one averaging a double-double and, let's face it, the reason we haven't seen any of LeBron's high-flying spectacular plays is because of a certain someone manning the paint.



the rest of your criteria is good as a standard for Sportscenter's top plays, not necessarily for a great PG.
No it's not, it's for assesing the ability of a PG to complete difficult passes and break down the defense in multiple ways. (besides just driving and kicking it to the corner)



when he penetrates the lane (at will mind you), forces the defense to collapse and kicks to the corner for a wide open 3 - does it really matter whether or not that assist dropped your jaw?

No it doesn't matter if it dropped my jaw, but it certainly isn't as traditional as a PG who can pass from anywhere in near any situation that said PG is able to create with ball handling, passing skills and court vision. I'm sure you'd admit that.

Besides I've been lauding Parker with praise for his ability to drive the lane at will. And shoot from outside. Don't make it sound like I wasn't. In fact, I first mentioned his name as an example of a PG who had great success despite not being traditional. Not sure why there's been umbrage with that.


he may not be a "traditional pass first PG", but if you don't think he presents opportunities for other's, you're nuts - or just ignorant towards how to run an offense in basketball.

Okay, I'll concede his penetration does create opportunity for others. Just not nearly as much or as capably well as other traditional guards do using traditional PG methodology. He does a lot of things a lot better than some traditional guards do. I made that very clear. I also think it's fine. Obviously the Spurs and Tony Parker himself have had a lot of success.


Here's what this argument is really about though:

Cry havoc is just an idiot. This moron was trying to tell me there's no such thing as a true PG, but if there were, Tony Parker would be one. He was wrong on both fronts and was an arrogant douche in the process.

[K-State Spur]

While there is such a thing as a 'true PG' as defined by some people - a better question would be: Should anybody care about a 'true PG' to the point that the phrase is even used?

In the last 8 years, the following PGs won championships: Tony Parker (3), Derek Fisher (3), Chauncey Billups, & Jason Williams/Gary Payton.

Of the guys on that list, only Williams/Payton would fit your definition of a true point, BUT...Dwayne Wade dominated the ball on that team. Did the Heat really have a 'true point' when it was a 2 guard that was putting them into their offense?

By your definition, you have to go all the way back to Isiah and the Bad Boys to find a team that won a title being run by a 'true PG.' (Yeah, Avery in '99 and Kenny Smith in '94-'95 were pass-first PGs, but they weren't thread-the-needle passers and they certainly weren't breaking anybodies ankles on their movies to the hole)

[balli]

While there is such a thing as a 'true PG' as defined by some people - a better question would be: Should anybody care about a 'true PG' to the point that the phrase is even used?

Your whole post is exactly my point. I originally brought it up because someone said Houston needed a true PG. Here's what I said-


Someone said they need a true-point guard and I think that would help, but how many teams in this league don't have true point guards? A lot of them get by without true PG's. Hell look at Tony Parker.

So we agree, 100% and exactly. My whole point when bringing TP's name up was that true PG's don't matter.

I started arguing with Cry Havoc because he obnoxiously called me "this guy" before saying they [true pg's] don't even exist. Obviously they exist... whether it matters or not (which you and I both think doesn't).

BTW, sorry for saying "everyone" knew Duncan should have been MVP. Obviously not everyone thought that. A lot of people did though.

[K-State Spur]

fair enough - what i get for selective reading in this thread! :)

[balli]

jvg was a good rocket reg. season coach, but not in the postseason


As a frustrated Utah Jazz fan I can guarantee that their loss had nothing to do with being outcoached by Jerry Sloan.

If you want my 2 cents- I think JVG is better than Adleman and I don't think their playoff loss had much to do with him. I just think it was a long, tough, 7 game series that both teams played hard in and Utah just had a few more balls bounce their way. I think you guys would've creamed Golden state, so really, you were only a game away from the conference finals with JVG, in my humble opinion.

[ChumpDumper]

The Rockets recalled both their D-Leaguers, and the trading season starts soon.

Roster shakeup?

[LakeShow]

I'm not going to blame the coach on this one. I blamed JVG for the Rockets blunders in the past. That's not an excuse anymore and the Rockets are still inept! The problem stems from the players. A trade is in order.

[Roxsfan]

As a frustrated Utah Jazz fan I can guarantee that their loss had nothing to do with being outcoached by Jerry Sloan.

If you want my 2 cents- I think JVG is better than Adleman and I don't think their playoff loss had much to do with him. I just think it was a long, tough, 7 game series that both teams played hard in and Utah just had a few more balls bounce their way. I think you guys would've creamed Golden state, so really, you were only a game away from the conference finals with JVG, in my humble opinion.

I can see that, however jvg was stubborn as far as developing young players and running better offensive schemes.

[SpursIndonesia]

Listen to this guy talk like he knows what a "true" point guard is.

As if their is such a thing as a "true" player at any position.

Tony has enough rings and a Finals MVP to shut anyone up who says he isn't a "true" anything.

Amen bro, amen, QFT !! :clap

[ancestron]

The problem with the Rockets is Yao. I mean come on! He is 7 and a half feet tall! He should be averaging like 50-60 points every game! All he has to do is turn around and set the ball in the basket! Dont' even run him down the floor for defense, just let him stand by his basket all night. Yao should be killin it!!!

[mavsfan1000]

The problem with the Rockets is Yao. I mean come on! He is 7 and a half feet tall! He should be averaging like 50-60 points every game! All he has to do is turn around and set the ball in the basket! Dont' even run him down the floor for defense, just let him stand by his basket all night. Yao should be killin it!!!
Yao lacks the strength and hands to be able to do it. Shaq has both those things and that is why he was able to dominate as much as we was able to do.

[DOMINATOR]

Yao lacks the strength and hands to be able to do it. Shaq has both those things and that is why he was able to dominate as much as we was able to do.
someone's sarcasm radar must be broken.

[MrChug]

This team is built for Van Gundy. Not Rick Adleman.

This team isn't even built for Van Wilder...

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Same old Story. The Rockets suck and the Nuggets suck even worse. The Rockets will roll into Denver on Thursday and win by double digits :lol

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Same old Story. The Rockets suck and the Nuggets suck even worse. The Rockets will roll into Denver on Thursday and win by double digits :lol
Didn't you predict the Rockets would get back on track against the Nuggs a couple of weeks ago? You're the Rocky Mountain version of Jim. :lol

[ratm1221]

McGrady is to blame. He's always been one of the biggest vaginas in the NBA. He likes faking injuries when he's playing like crap. Stick him on Miami with Shaq so they can pretend to be hurt together. They can watch Dwade cry from their front row seats.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y177/keith_potter/d-wade1.jpg

[mffl89]

Yao leads us in Points, Rebounds, Blocks, and assists...
wait what the fuck (<= yes i have to type that out).... did i just say assist?
yes, Yao did lead us in assist...
thats sad for Francis, James, and McGrady.
Maybe thats why they cant beat out Alston to start at point guard.

http://www.nba.com/rockets/stats/
when did Yao lead the Rockets in assists?

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Didn't you predict the Rockets would get back on track against the Nuggs a couple of weeks ago? You're the Rocky Mountain version of Jim. :lol

yep :smokin and they blew the Nuggets out big time :dramaquee

The Nuggets are done for this season. Ive been optimistic for a long time with the team but the reailty is that the coach is horrible and they have a bunch of 'me first' type players.

[Indazone]

http://www.nba.com/rockets/stats/
when did Yao lead the Rockets in assists?


This Rockets squad is one of the worst shooting teams I have ever seen. Every single one is mailing it in except for Yao. I mean look at their free throws. Is there a legitimate excuse for an entire team shooting free throws like this? Like WTH!

[Purple & Gold]

Battier is having a good year though. :donkey

[Matchman]

http://www.nba.com/rockets/stats/
when did Yao lead the Rockets in assists?
Yao led them in assist on that night.
sorry for the confusion.

[[email protected]]

Rocket win against the bull.Our first win :clap :santahat

[sprrs]

The finals MVP was a joke. Everyone knows it should've been Duncan.

I never see him break ankles or throw cool passes. In fact, I can't think of a single time I've seen Tony Parker deliver a jaw-dropping assist. He doesn't have great court vision. I haven't seen him make a dude fall on his ass though awesome ball handling or the ability to fake him out of his skin. I haven't seen him create his own outside shot. Call him a "true" pg if you want, but you're wrong.

Since when does Duncan do anything flashy? Sorry, but the Finals MVP is not decided by spectacular plays. I was defending Tim throughout the first two games, but after he put up a few sub-par performances and Tony played incredible, it became evident that Tony deserved the award. It's mainly an offensive award anyway.

BTW, watch the Spurs 2003 DVD to see some amazing TP fake outs and ankle breaking.

[balli]

Since when does Duncan do anything flashy? Sorry, but the Finals MVP is not decided by spectacular plays. I was defending Tim throughout the first two games, but after he put up a few sub-par performances and Tony played incredible, it became evident that Tony deserved the award. It's mainly an offensive award anyway.

BTW, watch the Spurs 2003 DVD to see some amazing TP fake outs and ankle breaking.

Has this whole world gone fucking crazy? Can any of you fucks read? Jesus fucking christ.

http://www.cinemablend.com/images/news_img/4817/4817.jpg

Dude, the first sentence of mine you quoted had nothing to do with the paragraph that followed. It was a one sentence diversion form the real topic and argument that was taking place. And that was obvious if you actually read the preceding posts. Did you even read the fucking thread or did you just jump in after reading one post like you somehow knew what the fuck you were talking about?

Also, you motherfuckers are crazy. I can't believe that two of you fucking idiots (cry havoc, spursindonesia) are trying to tell me that prototypical players don't exist and that I shouldn't use the phrase or ideology to describe them as such... Especially after I was complimenting Tony Parker by saying you don't have to be prototypical to achieve immense success. And furthermore, you had attitudes about it. Jesus fucking christ. FUCKING. MORONS... :bang :bang :bang :bang :bang

[sprrs]

So I should ignore the part where you called TP boring and undeserving? LIke it didn't exist in your post?

[Vinny Del Negro]

I can't believe that a rockets thread has lasted this long without anyone asking who wants to sex Mutumbo.

[balli]

So I should ignore the part where you called TP boring and undeserving? LIke it didn't exist in your post?

Okay, I have not written the word "boring" in this thread. Not one time.

I haven't used a synonym of the word boring, or expressed the sentiment of boredom, or ever even come close to using it to describe TP. Not one time.

I did nothing to show or correlate the two seperate arguments I was having, in order to indicate that I thought the Finals MVP was about being flashy, like you attributed to me. Not one time.

In fact, I haven't used the word flashy, or the concept of flashiness, or applied it to anyone, including TP. Not one time.

I did call Tony Parker as Finals MVP, a disputed choice. I also named Tim Duncan as the player I would have chosen. In fact, it was disputed. And in every, single, media outlet available, that covers the NBA, the question was raised. I did not call him undeserving (or boring) or relate the two things together. Not one time.

All I did in this thread was say that TP is not a prototypical PG, but he is a very good, championship caliber pg nonetheless and used him as an example that teams don't need true pg's to have success both as a team and at the position itself. I said he had speed, shooting ability, finishing ability at the rim, acuity at getting by defenders and that there were several things he does better than traditional PG's. That's all I fucking did.

Look, sprrs... I cannot keep coming back to this thread to set you straight, I'm fucking sick of it. So here's what I want you to do:

Get your fucking facts straight. Read the fucking thread. Pull your fucking head, out of your fucking ass.
And then fucking type, something like this-

fair enough - what i get for selective reading in this thread! :)

[Cry Havoc]

I haven't used a synonym of the word boring, or expressed the sentiment of boredom, or ever even come close to using it to describe TP. Not one time.

Let's review something else you stated.


I never see him break ankles or throw cool passes. In fact, I can't think of a single time I've seen Tony Parker deliver a jaw-dropping assist. He doesn't have great court vision. I haven't seen him make a dude fall on his ass though awesome ball handling or the ability to fake him out of his skin. I haven't seen him create his own outside shot. Call him a "true" pg if you want, but you're wrong.

Now, let's review what's wrong with this:

Parker has shattered ankles before. And even if he doesn't, he's using his speed more than his ball-handling to blow by other players, which is every bit as effective (even you have noted this).


In fact, I can't think of a single time I've seen Tony Parker deliver a jaw-dropping assist.

How many Spurs games do you watch? Parker was just featured on a top 10 plays of the week for a ridiculous spinning pass. Parker regularly forces a ball through a very tight lane to Duncan, or throws an excellent pass along the baseline to an open 3 point shooter. He fits passes through holes that have no business even existing. The fact that you cannot "remember" is no fault of Parker's.

Not to mention that you said nothing in your earlier posts had to do with flash, when in fact the post I'm citing is almost the polar opposite. 1 assist = 1 assist, whether it is jaw dropping or not.


I did nothing to show or correlate the two seperate arguments I was having, in order to indicate that I thought the Finals MVP was about being flashy, like you attributed to me. Not one time.

In fact, I haven't used the word flashy, or the concept of flashiness, or applied it to anyone, including TP. Not one time.

Except for the part above where you talked about how his assists aren't "jaw dropping" enough for you.


I did call Tony Parker as Finals MVP, a disputed choice.

No, you called it a "fucking joke".


I also named Tim Duncan as the player I would have chosen.

Good for you!


In fact, it was disputed. And in every, single, media outlet available, that covers the NBA, the question was raised. I did not call him undeserving (or boring) or relate the two things together. Not one time.

Agreed. I think it was a dead heat between Parker and Duncan, but Duncan's effect was less direct. Parker single-handedly dismantled the Cavs. Duncan would have been just as effective, but was happy handing the reins over for a series. Another example of the consummate teammate.


All I did in this thread was say that TP is not a prototypical PG, but he is a very good, championship caliber pg nonetheless and used him as an example that teams don't need true pg's to have success both as a team and at the position itself. I said he had speed, shooting ability, finishing ability at the rim, acuity at getting by defenders and that there were several things he does better than traditional PG's. That's all I fucking did.

Along with insulting everyone who disagrees with you. Seriously, are you 12? Can you possibly have civilized discourse on an issue? Or is everyone who disagrees with you a moron? This is a message board, not a M.A.S.H. unit (sorry, it's on TV :lol). Stop treating it like it's life and death and dropping the f-bomb every 3 words because you think it makes your argument more convincing. Because frankly, it just makes you sound like this message board means waaaay too much to you. Lighten the hell up.



And if you want to debate the notion that there aren't traditonal or "true" models for every position, go ahead, but it's a fucking stupid thing to think. Especially when it comes to PG's. By your logic Allen Iverson is as much of a PG as John Stockton was. Give me a fuckin break.

Iverson has started a majority of games at SG. Therefore, your comparison is moot. So to address the issue, Parker is fast, can shoot, has finishing ability, and is averaging 6.8 "fucking" assists this year. He may not be a "prototype" point guard, but he certainly is the TRUE PG of the Spurs. My god, he's a shoot-first PG who's averaging 7 APG, so he's not "true"? I'll agree with the idea that he's not a pass-first point guard, but if you're going to get THAT worked up over semantics, I'm going to break it right the hell down. Maybe I can piss you off even more. Quite entertaining, by the way. :lol


In the future, don't challenge me on the employment of widely used vernacular and concepts. How embarrasingly stupid.

Just because something is "widely used" is not indicative of it's accuracy. Lining up behind others and using their rationale to justify something you said does not make it an unassailable statement. Parker is not a pass-first PG, but he is a TRUE PG, just the same as Steve Nash. A shoot first PG who gets a lot of assists is a true PG just as much as a pass-first PG. Allen Iverson is not, because he doesn't regularly start at the 1 or play like a 1, ever.


Get your fucking facts straight. Read the fucking thread. Pull your fucking head, out of your fucking ass.
And then fucking type, something like this-

Raaaaaaaaar agree with me or I'll call you names more! Cause I'm an internet tough guy! Everything I say is true! Argue with me and I'll post pics of guys with guns! :lmao

[m33p0]

@ the thread title....

no shit.

[sprrs]

The finals MVP was a joke. Everyone knows it should've been Duncan.

I never see him break ankles or throw cool passes. In fact, I can't think of a single time I've seen Tony Parker deliver a jaw-dropping assist. He doesn't have great court vision. I haven't seen him make a dude fall on his ass though awesome ball handling or the ability to fake him out of his skin. I haven't seen him create his own outside shot. Call him a "true" pg if you want, but you're wrong.


I apologize. I should have paid more attention. You didn't mention the words "flashy" or "boring" in your post. All you said was he's never delivered a jaw-dropping assist, doesn't have great court vision, or made a dude fall flat on his ass through awesome ball handling or the ability to fake him out of his skin. I don't see how I ever thought you implied "boring" through that.

[sprrs]

Parker has shattered ankles before. And even if he doesn't, he's using his speed more than his ball-handling to blow by other players, which is every bit as effective (even you have noted this).



How many Spurs games do you watch? Parker was just featured on a top 10 plays of the week for a ridiculous spinning pass. Parker regularly forces a ball through a very tight lane to Duncan, or throws an excellent pass along the baseline to an open 3 point shooter. He fits passes through holes that have no business even existing. The fact that you cannot "remember" is no fault of Parker's.

He seemed to ignore that.

[Dave McNulla]

The finals MVP was a joke. Everyone knows it should've been Duncan.
duncan said it should have been parker. "he carried us".


I never see him break ankles or throw cool passes. In fact, I can't think of a single time I've seen Tony Parker deliver a jaw-dropping assist. He doesn't have great court vision. I haven't seen him make a dude fall on his ass though awesome ball handling or the ability to fake him out of his skin. I haven't seen him create his own outside shot. Call him a "true" pg if you want, but you're wrong.
break ankles or throw cool passes. you get a lot of that in atlanta, but you are just getting to .500.


I've seen him blow past some defenders with speed and finish in the paint. I've seen him come off some screens and knock down some jumpshots. I've seen him lob the ball into the post for Tim to isolate. Look Tony Parker is a very, very good player. But your out your fucking mind if you think he's a traditional, pass-first PG capable of creating much for anyone else, or even himself besides layups. (at least in the way Nash, Deron, Paul and Kidd are capable)
he isn't a traditional pass first point guard. he's a get-the-defense on their heels, blow-by-you, pick-n-roll point guard. he's ranked in the top five by most analysts.


And if you want to debate the notion that there aren't traditonal or "true" models for every position, go ahead, but it's a fucking stupid thing to think. Especially when it comes to PG's. By your logic Allen Iverson is as much of a PG as John Stockton was. Give me a fuckin break.

*Edit*

What I find hilarious is that I just went to ESPN and checked out the Steve Nash analysis of other PG's. Here's what he said about Deron.

Here's what you said about the existence of "true" players

In the future, don't challenge me on the employment of widely used vernacular and concepts. How embarrasingly stupid.you didn't stand up to the challenge. you tried, but failed.

[SpursIndonesia]

LOL, if Parker was undeserving Finals MVP because of not being a prototypical pass first PG, then what was Dirk then ? Or KG ? :lol

[Harry Callahan]

The thread on the Rockets turned into a discourse on Tony Parker.

Ballijuana is skilled at using the F word, very skilled. My New Years wish is he will learn other words to express himself in a more effective and adult manner in our ST community.

In the Finals, Tony Parker was the best (and most valuble) player on the floor. I saw every minute of the finals series and TP was most deserving of the award. Tim Duncan is the key to what the Spurs do and he is the biggest reason the Spurs have been at the top of the NBA the last decade. However, Parker was at the top of his game against the Cavs.

To say TP does not "break ankles" of defenders or "fake them out of their skin" or never - "Not even one time deliver a jaw dropping assist" is pure folly. People who actually watch the Spurs on a regular basis (as opposed to people who watch ESPN highlights which are by design not showing the SA Spurs) will have seen TP work with Ginobili on give and go passes at full speed that end up with easy layups. TP will also penetrate and kick the ball to open 3 pt shooters all the time - these passed are not easy to execute. The SAS do not have all the slam bam alley oop jam plays ESPN craves. However, ESPN is not the be all and end all for how basketball SHOULD be played. They love to promote the AND1 crapfest on their network.

Parker's speed is so devastating, he chooses when he gets to the basket, not the defender. Without "awesome ball handling skills", he would not be able to get to the basket at will and make the teardrop shot or the tough angle bank shot.

No, TP is not Jason Kidd (Mr. Traditional Point Guard) or Steve Nash (Point Guard Darling of the Free World) as far as court vision and passing the ball, but who would you rather have right now? How have Jason Kidd and Steve Nash fared going against Tony Parker in previous Playoff series? Not very well (0-4).

Steve Nash in particular does not do well against Tony Parker because he simply can't keep up with him defensively. The Suns cannot pressure the ball and the Spurs do what they want to do offensively against the Suns.

Over the last couple of years, Parker has entered his prime. Chris Paul and Deron Williams are really outstanding players, but Tony Parker deserves to be mentioned in the same conversation with those guys as top tier point guards - "traditional" or not.

[Purple & Gold]

Maybe Rockets could trade McGrady for Rudy Gay and fillers. :oops :oops

[m33p0]

The thread on the Rockets turned into a discourse on Tony Parker.

wierd, isn't it. there's a tony parker hater if i ever saw one. here's a cure for ballijuana - watch more Spurs game. recommended dosage - as many tony parker dribble drives as possible. joe smith lost his shoe.

[Cry Havoc]

I'm resurrecting this thread, because Tony Parker has been SHATTERING ankles as of late (he destroyed the poor man trying to guard him tonight) and has been doing it for about a week solid, completely burning his man.

Are you paying attention, ballijuana? Or are you going to come back and tell us how Parker just isn't "fucking" flashy and doesn't have any "fucking" court "fucking" vision (9 assists tonight)?


And yes, the Rockets still suck.

Back on thread topic!