Report Describes Rapid Rise in Income for the Wealthiest

[BradLohaus]

Report Says That the Rich Are Getting Richer Faster, Much Faster
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/15/business/15rich.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1197696366-ls6PT1FH6bNDNmF9mThcWg&oref=slogin

The poorest fifth of households had total income of $383.4 billion in 2005, while just the increase in income for the top 1 percent came to $524.8 billion, a figure 37 percent higher.

Earlier reports, based on tax returns, showed that in 2005 the top 10 percent, top 1 percent and fractions of the top 1 percent enjoyed their greatest share of income since 1928 and 1929. (No worries...things were booming then.)

On average, incomes for the top 1 percent of households rose by $465,700 each, or 42.6 percent after adjusting for inflation. The incomes of the poorest fifth rose by $200, or 1.3 percent, and the middle fifth increased by $2,400 or 4.3 percent.

I wonder what those numbers would be if they were adjusted with the pre-Clinton era CPI. The poorer you are, the harder inflation hits you. Inflation means nothing to the top 1%; in fact they benefit greatly because, as the article says, about half of the income going to the top 1 percent comes from investments and business. So when the Fed inflates and the stock market responds accordingly - as it has over the last 5+ years - the richer you are the more you gained, and the poorer you are the more you lost; as Ben Bernanke tells you that the cost of living is rising 2% per year.

[SouthernFried]

This is good news.

I would truely be concerned, if the rich were getting poorer, quicker. But, even the poor are getting richer in this report.

When the rich start getting poor...look out. Economy would truely be fucked, and the poorest would be hardest hit. Which is really what libs/socialists/commies want...brain-dead folk that they are.

We're still ok tho...for awhile.

Thanks.

[Wild Cobra]

When the rich start getting poor...look out. Economy would truely be fucked, and the poorest would be hardest hit. Which is really what libs/socialists/commies want...brain-dead folk that they are.

I agree. Anyone ever hear of getting good jobs from poor people, or even the middle class?

People who have money employ us now, don't they...

[George Gervin's Afro]

I agree. Anyone ever hear of getting good jobs from poor people, or even the middle class?

People who have money employ us now, don't they...


they are also responsible for paying fair wages.. maybe allow their employees to have bit more of the pie.. Now I am not saying that the shareholders shouldn't be fairly compensated for thier investments but without people doing their jobs they don't get jack...

[Ignignokt]

Report Says That the Rich Are Getting Richer Faster, Much Faster
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/15/business/15rich.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1197696366-ls6PT1FH6bNDNmF9mThcWg&oref=slogin

The poorest fifth of households had total income of $383.4 billion in 2005, while just the increase in income for the top 1 percent came to $524.8 billion, a figure 37 percent higher.

Earlier reports, based on tax returns, showed that in 2005 the top 10 percent, top 1 percent and fractions of the top 1 percent enjoyed their greatest share of income since 1928 and 1929. (No worries...things were booming then.)

On average, incomes for the top 1 percent of households rose by $465,700 each, or 42.6 percent after adjusting for inflation. The incomes of the poorest fifth rose by $200, or 1.3 percent, and the middle fifth increased by $2,400 or 4.3 percent.

I wonder what those numbers would be if they were adjusted with the pre-Clinton era CPI. The poorer you are, the harder inflation hits you. Inflation means nothing to the top 1%; in fact they benefit greatly because, as the article says, about half of the income going to the top 1 percent comes from investments and business. So when the Fed inflates and the stock market responds accordingly - as it has over the last 5+ years - the richer you are the more you gained, and the poorer you are the more you lost; as Ben Bernanke tells you that the cost of living is rising 2% per year.


Why does this matter? You're voting for Ron paul.

[Mavtek]

The story matters because Ron Paul is the only one talking about debasement of the currency which is essentially a tax on poor people. The middle class and the poor are the ones who suffer the most from debasement of currency.

Oh and while the Rich are getting richer, the poor are indeed getting more money, but at far less percentage, one that doesn't even come close to that of inflation.

[SouthernFried]

The middle class and the poor are the ones who suffer the most from debasement of currency.

Oh and while the Rich are getting richer, the poor are indeed getting more money, but at far less percentage, one that doesn't even come close to that of inflation.


Hell, the poor "suffer the most" when the price of milk goes up too. Also pay a higher percentage of their income for milk.

And everyfuckingthingelse!

Christ, what's the point?

Should rich folk pay a certain percentage of their income for milk, so the percentage paid by rich and poor would be the same?

Poor folks...$1.21/gal
Rich folks...$2,026.42/gal

Silly ain't it?

[Nbadan]

Should rich folk pay a certain percentage of their income for milk, so the percentage paid by rich and poor would be the same?

Are you really that dense? The price of milk is high because, the price to feed the cows is high, because the price of ethanol is high...DUH!

:bking

[SouthernFried]

Are you really that dense? The price of milk is high because, the price to feed the cows is high, because the price of ethanol is high...DUH!


Try reading the thread and maintaining a coherent train of thought here...I'll highlight the important points to keep your mind from wandering.

It aint the price of milk, or WHY it's high...

It's the POOR who are getting hurt the worse because it's taking a higher (here it comes!) "percentage of their INCOME" to pay for it! Which was the threads original thoughts on the "debasement of our currency"..."it affects the poor more"

So, since LIBLOGIC dictates...it's UNFAIR for the poor to pay higher (don't miss this now) "percentages of their incomes" for anything! We need to immediately and henceforth, even out "the percentage of income" the poor pay for crap, to make eeet fair!

So, in taking LIBLOGIC to it's illogical conclusion...

If a poor person pays $1.24 for a gallon of milk, and that equals (slow down here) 10% of his income (guys really, really poor.) To make it "FAIR"...that gallon of udder juice should also cost a millionaire (one more time!!) 10% of his/her income...or $100,000.

After all...it's only fucking fair.

** Lib Note: Percentages represent a portion of something. For example...if you buy, say...$100 worth of crack, and your cellmate gives you $10 to help buy it. You would then divide (represented by the symbol "/") $100 by $10 or, to make it simple 100/10.

100/10=10, or 10%

Don't worry if you came up with a different number. Division will be fully explained in the next lesson.

[boutons_]

"price to feed the cows is high,"

cows evolved on grass, not grains. Feeding cows hi-carb grains fucks them up the way it fucks up humans, who fuck themselves up more by eating grain-fed meat and dairy.

But the food corps don't care if their products make their consumers sick.

[SouthernFried]

TALKING TO LIBERALS.

Lesson 1 - Attempting to keep a discussion focused:

As the above discussion illustrates. Trying to keep liberal's minds from jittering and blowing synapses is a challenge. A discussion on Percentages of Income the poor and wealthy pay, or receive...can easily devolve into why milk prices are so high.

Then, just as quickly, desolve that devolvement into how corporations make their customers sick.

As a sane person, it can become, frustration personified. "How can you talk to someone who cannot maintain a coherent thought process?"...is a common query from those who have tried.

Most parents have dealt with this loss of focus...in the upbringing of children. Sometimes repetition works. Many times limiting sugar intake can bring more focus. In the case of older children, confiscation of drugs and increased monitoring of self-destructive activities can bring the desired results.

Many of these remedies also work with the liberal mindset. However, tho drugs tend to be the common denominator, there are also other causes. Hormonal imbalances, governmental and pop-culture indoctrination, and in the worst cases...actual drain bamage.

Hormonal imbalances are probably one of the easiest to deal with. A quick hug can center a liberals mind...and if it's the opposite sex, has other side benefits as well. Indoctrination into a liberal mindset is much harder to deal with, and involves much patience (much...much...much patience). Again, Parents will have an advantage in dealing with this. Mucho amount of time is involved and sometimes won't resolve itself until the candidate is in his/hers mid-30's (longer if they have continued their indoctrination in the post-high school arena.)

This is usually not worth the time. But, for those willing to put in the effort, the rewards can be great indeed. The liberal mindset cries out for attention, and is constantly making itself known. Its "hey, look at me" actions are easily spotted in fervent conversations, unusually high post counts in political forums, or protesting anything that, in actuality, has nothing to do with them. So, it can be easily spotted and dealt with for those good-hearted souls who are willing to put in the time.

For those of us who may not have the inclination, or time involved to help focus the liberal mindset, here are a few recommendations.

1. Try to have discussions earlier in the day, before any reality altering substances are injested.

2. Repeat, Repeat, Repeat. As the discussion strays into bizarre realms, keep the focus. Usually repeating the original points several times will work.

3. Carrot and Stick. In especially bad cases, offer them a reward for staying in the here and now. An example that has worked for me:

"There's a study that shows how the oil companies and the US's (always mention the US in something like this), increased pumping of oil is creating cavities in the earth, and the earth is in imminent danger of DEFLATING within 10 yrs"..."as soon as we get through this discussion on taxes, I'll tell you about it!"

It's amazing how focused they can get when something so juicy is offered as a reward for their focus. Usually you can even get agreement on cutting taxes so as to avoid prolonging the conversation. Yes, it's a trick...but, sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.

4. Throw water in their face. As soon as their minds start to falter, throw something at them. Water is good, Jagermeister works better. A Bowling bowl will tend to end the conversation prematurely. It times past, this might have meant, "slap 'em upside the head." Parent's will understand why this is no longer acceptable.


There are many other ways to keep a liberals mind focused. I will probably post them and other "talking to a liberal" issues at another time.

This thread is a good example of the "focus" problem you will have to deal with in trying to converse with a liberal. The problems and solutions are varied, and not limited to what I have discussed. Understanding the issue, however, is always the first, and most important step, in dealing with it.

I wish you much success.
SF

[clambake]

i think your mind is "southern fried".

[Ignignokt]

i think your mind is "southern fried".


but it's not clambaked.

[BradLohaus]

When the rich start getting poor...look out. Economy would truely be fucked, and the poorest would be hardest hit.
That is true, because of the structure of the monetary system. Defaltion is death for an economy operating under an inflationary fiat money standard; that's why it is the Fed's worst nightmare. So they must do whatever it takes to keep it from happening (bailing out failing lenders, cutting their rates to below market levels, etc.), even if it means taking measures that hurt the poor. If they didn't do those things, then the whole economy would crash and the poor would be hurt much worse. Hell of a system.


It's the POOR who are getting hurt the worse because it's taking a higher (here it comes!) "percentage of their INCOME" to pay for it! Which was the threads original thoughts on the "debasement of our currency"..."it affects the poor more"
That's true.


So, since LIBLOGIC dictates...it's UNFAIR for the poor to pay higher (don't miss this now) "percentages of their incomes" for anything! We need to immediately and henceforth, even out "the percentage of income" the poor pay for crap, to make eeet fair!
That came out of left field. Nobody claimed anything like that. I was attacking the privately operated, monopolistic monetary system, not advocating hardcore communism.

[SouthernFried]

That came out of left field. Nobody claimed anything like that. I was attacking the privately operated, monopolistic monetary system, not advocating hardcore communism.

If you would only have attacked the monetary system without the resulting descriptions of how it affects "the poor more," with "percentages of income" analogies....I would not have responded with how everything, including increasing the price of milk, affects the poor more. I would have been more than happy to discuss monetary policy in and of itself.

But, you did...so I did.

Using the "poor" for political gain or governmental intrusion/action/policy, is usually preceded by..."the poor pay/suffer more..." In fact, our whole progressive tax system is based up it. As are most government programs.

Monetary policy should not be based upon such. Not on how it affects one segment of society (i.e, "the poor" or "the rich")...but how it affects the entire country as a whole. Stability, trust, competiveness in world markets, etc...are the underlying precepts of good monetary policy. Not, "how does it affect the poor." That singular question should never arise in a serious monetary policy discussion. When it does it means there is some other agenda besides monetary policy behind the inclusion.

And, FYI...rich folk make money in any type of market. Deflationary or inflationary. I can make money in the Currency FOREX markets if the dollar is going up...or down. Doesn't matter to me. Using analogies of rich vs poor folk when talking monetary policy is irrelevant at best...a simplistic red herring to promote other agendas at worse.

[violentkitten]

i think the only thing worse than the fed would be allowing congress free reign to determine the quantity of $.

[BradLohaus]

Monetary policy should not be based upon such. Not on how it affects one segment of society (i.e, "the poor" or "the rich")...but how it affects the entire country as a whole. Stability, trust, competiveness in world markets, etc...are the underlying precepts of good monetary policy. Not, "how does it affect the poor." That singular question should never arise in a serious monetary policy discussion. When it does it means there is some other agenda besides monetary policy behind the inclusion.
I agree that a monetary system should not favor or discriminate against any group of people, poor or rich; the problem is that our system isn't like that.


Not, "how does it affect the poor." That singular question should never arise in a serious monetary policy discussion.
Replace "poor" with "middle class" (or "upper class") and it's easier to see how that's just not true. The effects of a monetary system on all classes should be looked at; and no class should gain an advantage or disadvantage. The only fair monetary system - for everybody from poor to rich - is one in which long term inflation is 0%.


And, FYI...rich folk make money in any type of market. Deflationary or inflationary. I can make money in the Currency FOREX markets if the dollar is going up...or down. Doesn't matter to me. Using analogies of rich vs poor folk when talking monetary policy is irrelevant at best...a simplistic red herring to promote other agendas at worse.
Yes, there's plenty of money to be made in currencies; it's the biggest financial market there is. But profitable currency speculation for certain individuals doesn't mean that our monetary system is appropriate.

I know that rich people can make money in any market. There will always be rich people, and there will always be poor people. But what rich people (big bankers, Wall Street, etc.) don't need is a monetary system that is to their advantage, while detrimental to the poor and middle class.

[BradLohaus]

i think the only thing worse than the fed would be allowing congress free reign to determine the quantity of $.

Congress is constitutionally required to do that.

We the people should definitely think twice before we trust the government about anything, but putting the control of our money in the hands of big banks is insane; they are unelected, and accountable only to themselves. But that's been the case for nearly a century now. They caused the Great Depression, by the way - just thought I'd throw that out there.

[violentkitten]

Congress is constitutionally required to do that.

We the people should definitely think twice before we trust the government about anything, but putting the control of our money in the hands of big banks is insane; they are unelected, and accountable only to themselves. But that's been the case for nearly a century now. They caused the Great Depression, by the way - just thought I'd throw that out there.

because congress has proven to be so responsible with its taxing and spending duties. at least those powers are somewhat understandable for the average congressman, unlike monetary policy. the last thing we'd need is the congress with its hands directly on the printing press.

[BeerIsGood!]

how about every american taking one hour a week to learn about their elected representatives and challengers, and then making a thoughtful decision on who to put in office, based on policy stances, professional qualifications and personal integrity


nah..


Why waste one hour a week reading policy stances that are mostly lies, professional qualifications that are mostly boggus/inflated, and personal integrity that can't be judged unless you're the fly in the room when they bang their hookers and snort their coke?

You can't trust anyone to do anything for the good of the whole. Not even yourself.

[BeerIsGood!]

Good point. I've long been a believer that the rich deserve their wealth because they did what was necessary to create it. If someone is tired of being poor and/or uneducated, there is nothing stopping them from working outside the box to change their situation. A little ingenuity and a lot of moxy goes a long way.

As far as politicians, its very idealistic to think people who won't invest the necessary time to make their lives better will invest any time in the democracy they complain about. The system works, it rewards those who work it and put forth the effort to control it.

[BradLohaus]

The sad reality is that it is natural for a wealthy and highly educated elite to take sufficient control of the political and economic power centers of a nation.

It takes educated and motivated citizens to prevent that from happening; the founders of our country explicitly warned us about that. But the richer a nation becomes, the less motivated its citizens tend to become when it comes to looking out for things like that.