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View Full Version : Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Grizzlies - Dec. 19



timvp
12-20-2007, 12:26 AM
The Spurs gave a pitiful effort for 45 minutes of the game against the Memphis Grizzlies. I haven’t seen the Spurs play as disinterested this season as they did tonight. It was as if half the team missed the trip to Memphis. After the game, Manu Ginobili said the Spurs played soft for much of the contest – which was an accurate description.

By the time the Spurs starting giving effort, they were down ten with three minutes to go in the game. To their credit, they upped their intensity and were able to come all the way back to tie the game. However, Rudy Gay made it all for naught when he hit an off balance, leaning three-pointer at the buzzer to give the Grizzlies the victory by a final score of 88-85.

I’m not sure what good there is to take out of this game. Sure, Tony Parker was out with an injury but that’s really no excuse. To give no effort against a Memphis team missing Pau Gasol is disappointing. The late rally was nice but that was more Memphis choking than the Spurs really playing great basketball. If the Spurs give away games like this, they will start negating all the nice early season victories they had.

Concerning the Grizzlies, I was mildly impressed. Gay and Mike Miller are very solid players. Gay is a very good athlete whose talent is starting to match his athleticism. Miller has always been a bit underrated. Put him on a good team and he’d be really tough to guard night in and night out. Other than those two, the Grizzlies still have a lot of work to do. Juan Carlos Navarro can score but his basketball IQ is questionable and he’s a horrible defender. Darko Milicic doesn’t look worth his big contract but he did show some flashes of being a capable defender.

-I thought Tim Duncan was one of the few players to give somewhat consistent effort. The problem for him was the Spurs weren’t giving him the ball enough. Instead of shooting 28 three-pointers (of which the team hit only six), the Spurs should have given it to Duncan more often. Pull up transition threes don’t make sense when you have the best bigman in the game on your team. Duncan finished with 16 points, 14 rebounds, four assists, two blocks and only one turnover. There were some points in the game where Duncan’s effort was questionable but he was far from the worst in that department. On the last second buzzer beater Gay hit to win the game, Duncan actually defended him well. Gay just knocked down a tough shot.

-Manu Ginobili followed his recent formula: try too hard in the beginning of the game, get totally out of rhythm in the second quarter, get rolling in the third quarter, tire in the middle of the fourth and then make good plays late. His stat line looks better than the stat lines he’s been putting up of late. He finished with 20 points, five rebounds, five assists and three steals in 33 minutes. The bad news is he shot poorly again, just 7-of-21 from the field and 2-of-8 from beyond the three-point line. He also had three turnovers and got a scolding from Pop early on for playing pitiful defense. Overall, it was a sub par effort from Ginobili, but it was actually a step in the right direction considering his last few outings.

-Bruce Bowen has been very consistent about giving effort on a nightly basis this season. However, tonight the opposite was true. Bowen gave pitiful effort and was horrible tonight. With Gay and Miller going off, Bowen did little to stop either one. With Parker out, Duncan working his way back into form and Ginobili struggling, the Spurs couldn’t afford for Bowen to lay an egg. Not only did Bowen lay an egg, I think he had twins.

-Michael Finley was halfway decent. He had a highlight reel baseline drive for a reverse dunk. He also gave good effort at times. But his shooting against failed him – hitting just 5-of-13 shots from the floor, including 1-of-7 from three-point range. He wasn’t responsible for the loss but he also didn’t exactly help the Spurs try to pull out the victory. After watching him miss yet another three-pointer tonight from straight away, I looked it up and Finley is now 3-for-17 on three-pointers from straight on. He actually shoots really well from the corners and the arc. He just can’t knock down straight away threes this season for whatever reason.

-Fabricio Oberto had some moments but he was another one of the players who lacked effort at some points in the game. He finished with a respectable six points and six rebounds in 19 minutes, but he could have done much more. With Rudy Gay guarding him, Oberto should have exploited that matchup more so than he did.

-Jacque Vaughn played well at times and played with too much confidence at other times. I still can’t stand it when he dribbles the ball up the court and fires a jumper without letting anyone else touch the ball. That’s not his game and it totally destroys the cohesiveness of the offense. To his credit, he played good defense and his offense was solid for the most part. That said, Parker can’t get healthy fast enough.

-Brent Barry had some really nice moments in tonight’s game. He was aware defensively in the fourth quarter. He finished with a season-high four steals to go along with eight points and four assists. His three-pointer in the fourth quarter with about three minutes to go cut the lead to seven point and gave the Spurs the momentum to try to get back into it. On the game, Barry led the Spurs in plus/minus with a +18 in 29 minutes.

-Matt Bonner didn’t play in the first half but ended up starting the second half. I think it was a move by Pop to put someone out there who was going to give effort. Bonner, despite all his other deficiencies, is a player you can almost always count on for effort. In his 14 minutes of action, he had seven points and three rebounds.

-Ime Udoka’s offense was garbage. He was hesitant and looked amazingly uncomfortable on that end of the court. That said, Udoka’s defense was really, really good. He came into the game in the third quarter and cooled down a blazing Mike Miller. Miller was having the game of his life until Udoka came in and shut him down. Miller never really got going again thanks in large part to Udoka’s defense in the third.

-Robert Horry seemed like the only Spur who realized that Duncan was indeed playing this game. He repeatedly looked for Duncan down low and made some nice passes throughout his 12 minutes of playing time. Horry’s offense is still a work in progress, though, as he didn’t even attempt a shot this game.

-Darius Washington’s time on the court this game was a disaster. His offense was poor as he was forcing up bad shots and wasn’t getting the Spurs into their sets. However, even more damning was his defense. He played poor transition defense a number of times and even got schooled by the rotting corpse of Damon Stoudamire. I can’t blame Pop for pulling Washington after six minutes and not playing him again. Washington has a whole lot of learning to do.

-Pop pulled all the stops tonight. I don’t know how many different lineups he put on the court to try to find a group that was going to give energy. He mixed and matched all night until finally he found some combos that were working in the second half. I can’t blame much of this game on Pop. The Spurs got good looks out of timeouts in the fourth quarter and their defense on the last play was good. Without Pop pulling out all the stops, the Spurs lose this game by 25. However, Pop might have to use the Soft Card if the Spurs make a habit of playing this way too often. Bottomline is the Spurs played poorly and deserved to lose. The gay jumper at the end was a fitting way to close out this weak showing by the Spurs.

ShoogarBear
12-20-2007, 12:33 AM
Your rug is safe.

duncan228
12-20-2007, 12:35 AM
:lmao at Shoogar.

GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI
12-20-2007, 12:35 AM
Fucking Gay!!

violentkitten
12-20-2007, 12:36 AM
The gay jumper at the end was a fitting way to close out this weak showing by the Spurs.

sometimes you gotta go lowercase.

pku47
12-20-2007, 12:36 AM
Bonner is the guy always full of energy, I don't know why he got no time in first half, when others were losing their attention to the game.
And I'm wondering what would happen if he had made the last shot.

timvp
12-20-2007, 12:37 AM
Your rug is safe.*searches shoog's recent posts*

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Okay, now I get it. Blaze is probably mad because I would have commissioned him to make me another one . . .

Southwest Texas Fan
12-20-2007, 12:37 AM
[QUOTE=timvp]-Ime Udoka’s offense was garbage. He was hesitant and looked amazingly uncomfortable on that end of the court. That said, Udoka’s defense was really, really good. He came into the game in the third quarter and cooled down a blazing Mike Miller. Miller was having the game of his life until Udoka came in and shut him down. Miller never really got going again thanks in large part to Udoka’s defense in the third.

Udoka really played him well. It seems that Udoka is able to handle bigger guards and forwards especially in the paint. I think we will see really good things from him and hopefully it's this season.

T Park
12-20-2007, 12:51 AM
Can't really get pissed at a championship ball club for a loss in the middle of December.

It happens. Screw it, on to the Clippers and hopefully Tony Parker plays.


I personally thought Vaugh played a good game. Of course, he didn't play spot on perfect so thats not good enough for Spurstalk.

Vinny Del Negro
12-20-2007, 12:53 AM
We played utterly dominant Spurs basketball in this game. Unfortunately we began doing so at around the 6:00 mark. Can't flip the switch with so little time against ANY nba team.

PS Mike Miller for MVP pls.

G-Nob
12-20-2007, 12:54 AM
The gay jumper at the end was a fitting way to close out this weak showing by the Spurs.


:lol Is that a noun or an adjective?? :lol

SenorSpur
12-20-2007, 01:30 AM
The Spurs gave a pitiful effort for 45 minutes of the game against the Memphis Grizzlies. I haven’t seen the Spurs play as disinterested this season as they did tonight. It was as if half the team missed the trip to Memphis. After the game, Manu Ginobili said the Spurs played soft for much of the contest – which was an accurate description.

By the time the Spurs starting giving effort, they were down ten with three minutes to go in the game. To their credit, they upped their intensity and were able to come all the way back to tie the game. However, Rudy Gay made it all for naught when he hit an off balance, leaning three-pointer at the buzzer to give the Grizzlies the victory by a final score of 88-85.

I’m not sure what good there is to take out of this game. Sure, Tony Parker was out with an injury but that’s really no excuse. To give no effort against a Memphis team missing Pau Gasol is disappointing. The late rally was nice but that was more Memphis choking than the Spurs really playing great basketball. If the Spurs give away games like this, they will start negating all the nice early season victories they had.

Concerning the Grizzlies, I was mildly impressed. Gay and Mike Miller are very solid players. Gay is a very good athlete whose talent is starting to match his athleticism. Miller has always been a bit underrated. Put him on a good team and he’d be really tough to guard night in and night out. Other than those two, the Grizzlies still have a lot of work to do. Juan Carlos Navarro can score but his basketball IQ is questionable and he’s a horrible defender. Darko Milicic doesn’t look worth his big contract but he did show some flashes of being a capable defender.

-I thought Tim Duncan was one of the few players to give somewhat consistent effort. The problem for him was the Spurs weren’t giving him the ball enough. Instead of shooting 28 three-pointers (of which the team hit only six), the Spurs should have given it to Duncan more often. Pull up transition threes don’t make sense when you have the best bigman in the game on your team. Duncan finished with 16 points, 14 rebounds, four assists, two blocks and only one turnover. There were some points in the game where Duncan’s effort was questionable but he was far from the worst in that department. On the last second buzzer beater Gay hit to win the game, Duncan actually defended him well. Gay just knocked down a tough shot.

-Manu Ginobili followed his recent formula: try too hard in the beginning of the game, get totally out of rhythm in the second quarter, get rolling in the third quarter, tire in the middle of the fourth and then make good plays late. His stat line looks better than the stat lines he’s been putting up of late. He finished with 20 points, five rebounds, five assists and three steals in 33 minutes. The bad news is he shot poorly again, just 7-of-21 from the field and 2-of-8 from beyond the three-point line. He also had three turnovers and got a scolding from Pop early on for playing pitiful defense. Overall, it was a sub par effort from Ginobili, but it was actually a step in the right direction considering his last few outings.

-Bruce Bowen has been very consistent about giving effort on a nightly basis this season. However, tonight the opposite was true. Bowen gave pitiful effort and was horrible tonight. With Gay and Miller going off, Bowen did little to stop either one. With Parker out, Duncan working his way back into form and Ginobili struggling, the Spurs couldn’t afford for Bowen to lay an egg. Not only did Bowen lay an egg, I think he had twins.

-Michael Finley was halfway decent. He had a highlight reel baseline drive for a reverse dunk. He also gave good effort at times. But his shooting against failed him – hitting just 5-of-13 shots from the floor, including 1-of-7 from three-point range. He wasn’t responsible for the loss but he also didn’t exactly help the Spurs try to pull out the victory. After watching him miss yet another three-pointer tonight from straight away, I looked it up and Finley is now 3-for-17 on three-pointers from straight on. He actually shoots really well from the corners and the arc. He just can’t knock down straight away threes this season for whatever reason.

-Fabricio Oberto had some moments but he was another one of the players who lacked effort at some points in the game. He finished with a respectable six points and six rebounds in 19 minutes, but he could have done much more. With Rudy Gay guarding him, Oberto should have exploited that matchup more so than he did.

-Jacque Vaughn played well at times and played with too much confidence at other times. I still can’t stand it when he dribbles the ball up the court and fires a jumper without letting anyone else touch the ball. That’s not his game and it totally destroys the cohesiveness of the offense. To his credit, he played good defense and his offense was solid for the most part. That said, Parker can’t get healthy fast enough.

-Brent Barry had some really nice moments in tonight’s game. He was aware defensively in the fourth quarter. He finished with a season-high four steals to go along with eight points and four assists. His three-pointer in the fourth quarter with about three minutes to go cut the lead to seven point and gave the Spurs the momentum to try to get back into it. On the game, Barry led the Spurs in plus/minus with a +18 in 29 minutes.

-Matt Bonner didn’t play in the first half but ended up starting the second half. I think it was a move by Pop to put someone out there who was going to give effort. Bonner, despite all his other deficiencies, is a player you can almost always count on for effort. In his 14 minutes of action, he had seven points and three rebounds.

-Ime Udoka’s offense was garbage. He was hesitant and looked amazingly uncomfortable on that end of the court. That said, Udoka’s defense was really, really good. He came into the game in the third quarter and cooled down a blazing Mike Miller. Miller was having the game of his life until Udoka came in and shut him down. Miller never really got going again thanks in large part to Udoka’s defense in the third.

-Robert Horry seemed like the only Spur who realized that Duncan was indeed playing this game. He repeatedly looked for Duncan down low and made some nice passes throughout his 12 minutes of playing time. Horry’s offense is still a work in progress, though, as he didn’t even attempt a shot this game.

-Darius Washington’s time on the court this game was a disaster. His offense was poor as he was forcing up bad shots and wasn’t getting the Spurs into their sets. However, even more damning was his defense. He played poor transition defense a number of times and even got schooled by the rotting corpse of Damon Stoudamire. I can’t blame Pop for pulling Washington after six minutes and not playing him again. Washington has a whole lot of learning to do.

-Pop pulled all the stops tonight. I don’t know how many different lineups he put on the court to try to find a group that was going to give energy. He mixed and matched all night until finally he found some combos that were working in the second half. I can’t blame much of this game on Pop. The Spurs got good looks out of timeouts in the fourth quarter and their defense on the last play was good. Without Pop pulling out all the stops, the Spurs lose this game by 25. However, Pop might have to use the Soft Card if the Spurs make a habit of playing this way too often. Bottomline is the Spurs played poorly and deserved to lose. The gay jumper at the end was a fitting way to close out this weak showing by the Spurs.

Manu needs to better understand and adhere to his own rhythm and flow of the ball game. For example, if you're 3-point shot is not on - STOP JACKING 'EM UP. Find other options to score. At the same time, If another guy's shot is on - GET HIM THE BALL. Barry was one of few Spurs that seemingly had a good rhythm going with his shot, but didn't get many.

I love the pick and roll with Oberto. Many times it's good for cheap baskets. Yet when the defense finally figures it out and starts sitting on the passing lane - DON'T FORCE A PASS THROUGH.

Don't get me wrong. I love the fierce competitor that he his. He's one of our best playmakers. Therefore the ball is in his hands - a lot. However, at times, he kills the team and breaks positive rhythm more than anyone else on this team because he tries to do too much himself.

The Truth #6
12-20-2007, 01:43 AM
Bonner isn't ready to make clutch shots yet. He hasn't made one yet in two years. His reaction after the miss didn't convey confidence. Yes, it was a good look but I had zero confidence it was going in. He needs to take the Robert Horry course on How To Play Well While Acting Like You Don't Give A Shit.

SenorSpur
12-20-2007, 01:47 AM
What's wrong with this picture?

Bowen takes the last shot versus PHX
Bonner takes the last host versus MEM

Are you kidding me?

DubMcDub
12-20-2007, 01:52 AM
What's wrong with this picture?

Bowen takes the last shot versus PHX
Bonner takes the last host versus MEM

Are you kidding me?

Of course I'm not as familiar with the Spurs you guys are, but doesn't Bowen actually take a fair amount of game-ending type shots? I remember one in SA against Dallas last year that would have tied it that he took from the corner and missed. And also, against the Mavs 2 weeks ago he took one to ice the game at the end that he missed (though of course they ended up winning regardless).

Also, didn't he hit a really big 3 in one of your playoff games against the Suns last year at the end?

Anyway, point is I thought he was generally regarded as a fairly clutch 3 point shooter for you guys. He seems to get quite a few plays drawn up for him at the end of games.

ShoogarBear
12-20-2007, 01:54 AM
What's wrong with this picture?

Bowen takes the last shot versus PHX
Bonner takes the last host versus MEM
The fact that Bonner didn't take the last shot?

ShoogarBear
12-20-2007, 01:56 AM
Also, in the NBA if it's a late game situation and a guy has a wide-open shot that's part of his normal repertoire, then the team has done their job.

If he can't hit it with regularity, then he shouldn't be on the court.

2centsworth
12-20-2007, 01:57 AM
Of course I'm not as familiar with the Spurs you guys are, but doesn't Bowen actually take a fair amount of game-ending type shots? I remember one in SA against Dallas last year that would have tied it that he took from the corner and missed. And also, against the Mavs 2 weeks ago he took one to ice the game at the end that he missed (though of course they ended up winning regardless).

Also, didn't he hit a really big 3 in one of your playoff games against the Suns last year at the end?

Anyway, point is I thought he was generally regarded as a fairly clutch 3 point shooter for you guys. He seems to get quite a few plays drawn up for him at the end of games.He usually hits crucial 3s in the 4th, but usually never shoots last second shots. The one against phoenix is the 1st that I can remember in a long time. I thought it was good practice for him, but to be honest I was surprised he missed.

As far as LJ's comments, don't forget the +/- stat or is it misleading?

timvp
12-20-2007, 02:01 AM
Also, in the NBA if it's a late game situation and a guy has a wide-open shot that's part of his normal repertoire, then the team has done their job.Weren't you mad about Bowen and Bonner taking last second shots around this time last year? And wasn't that what I said at the time?

*checks to make sure I'm not in alternate universe*

ShoogarBear
12-20-2007, 02:04 AM
Weren't you mad about Bowen and Bonner taking last second shots around this time last year? And wasn't that what I said at the time?

*checks to make sure I'm not in alternate universe*I was more mad about Horry NOT being on the floor, since that was supposedly the reason for having him on the team. And Bowen has only in the last 1-2 years become an end-game shooter.

E20
12-20-2007, 02:20 AM
It's funny because it means homosexual.

timvp
12-20-2007, 02:25 AM
I was more mad about Horry NOT being on the floor, since that was supposedly the reason for having him on the team. And Bowen has only in the last 1-2 years become an end-game shooter.Looking back at one of the threads (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57296), it looks like you were partly angry about Horry not being on the floor. However, after the playoffs in which Horry returned to form and Bowen hit the biggest shot of the playoffs for the Spurs, timvp's posts in that thread read even better.

:smokin

ShoogarBear
12-20-2007, 02:42 AM
:lol Man, that was a classic lose-to-the-Mavs meltdown thread.

I have no problem with Bowen or Bonner getting a shot out of the natural flow of the rotation, like in the last two games.

I still wouldn't RUN A PLAY for either one as the first option, which is what I recall happened in that Dallas game. (With the exception of the GS game, where I was yelling at them to give the ball to Bonner every time down the court.)

Also, you remember what Bowen was like when they first brought back the leather ball. That was one of the worst shooting slumps in Spur history. Alfredrick Hughes was calling Bruce to give him shooting tips.


:lmao @ Kori laying down the Paris Hilton smack.

Kori Ellis
12-20-2007, 02:49 AM
:lmao @ Kori laying down the Paris Hilton smack.

:lol

That was funny.

jman3000
12-20-2007, 04:34 AM
bout damn time this slump happened. i was getting worried.

polandprzem
12-20-2007, 06:24 AM
A bad loss at last!

Can you imagine spurs ging 17 and 3 ?

That's history, back to realiity where Celtics have 20-3

WalterBenitez
12-20-2007, 07:54 AM
Great analyse TIMVP, bad game if we lose to Grizlies; we miss TP; this team needs big 3 and also the rest of the crew; I don't wanna complaine, but at this point we look as an old team

MoSpur
12-20-2007, 09:49 AM
I too thought that last night was the worst game the Spurs have played. I even turned off the TV last night in the beginning of the third quarter. I then turned it on when there was about a minute left and couldn't believe.

I guess it was a good comeback effort, but Gay hit a tough shot. Give all the credit to Memphis. They came out to play despite being w/out Gasol.

DieMrBond
12-20-2007, 10:01 AM
If you don't give a guy a chance to make a game winning shot (like Bowen, Bonner, etc), when it really doesnt matter (like vs Memphis), how are you going to know if they can or cant do it when it does?

We don't need to win every game, its not important. Finding out what our players can do in the clutch, its worth a loss every now and then. (I know Bowen has proven himself many times, I mean more Bonner, Ime, etc)

BonnerDynasty
12-20-2007, 10:43 AM
The 4th quarter was horrible. Whether it was Pop or Finley, someone neeeds to tell the others to quit shooting the fucking 3.

Give the god damn ball to Duncan, let him get fouled, let him make some banked hooks, but damnit quit relying on the god damn 3.


If you don't give a guy a chance to make a game winning shot (like Bowen, Bonner, etc), when it really doesnt matter (like vs Memphis), how are you going to know if they can or cant do it when it does?

Exactly. :clap

ancestron
12-20-2007, 12:00 PM
foiled by a gay jumper

TampaDude
12-20-2007, 12:19 PM
Fuck it...who's next???

SenorSpur
12-20-2007, 12:32 PM
Of course the Spurs can't win every game. Yet it IS disturbing to see them play this poorly - at any stage of the season. Last night they put themselves into such a hole against Memphis, that it was almost too much to expect them to dig themselves out. Give them credit. They fought hard and courageously. They just didn't get that last stop at the end. Sort of reminiscent of the 2006 WCSF versus the lil' Mavs.

wildbill2u
12-20-2007, 01:25 PM
Re: Bonner getting last shot.

There is a reason. Most teams are going to load up their defense on your best scorers and proven clutch players. That is going to leave a relatively untested shooter like Bonner with a clutch shot to make.

According to the radio, Tim went over and reassured him after the miss, giving the guy some love and telling him it was OK to take the open shot. Having Bonner in there at crunch time was a confidence builder from CIA Pop in an early season game.

Sometime in the future we're gonna be in the same situation and the newbie is going to have to have some confidence.

ambchang
12-20-2007, 01:29 PM
The Spurs lost isn't necessarily a bad thing, it allows the Spurs to understand that no matter who they play, they can't coast and expect a win just because they are the champs.
It also allows the team to see their own vulnerabilities and work to close the gap.
Please rest Manu, make sure his wrist is fine.

wildbill2u
12-20-2007, 02:14 PM
A bad loss at last!

Can you imagine spurs ging 17 and 3 ?

That's history, back to realiity where Celtics have 20-3
There are three clubs in each conference with 18 or more wins and no more than 9 losses.

East West
Boston San Antonio
Detroit Phoenix
Orlando Dallas

Anyone doubt this will be a dogfight down to the end?

Hemotivo
12-20-2007, 02:14 PM
gay

baseline bum
12-20-2007, 02:20 PM
bout damn time this slump happened. i was getting worried.

:lol

Yeah, after seeing 2000 and 2006, early season success scares the hell out of me (though it wasn't a problem in 2005).

meta2007
12-20-2007, 03:09 PM
Actually, I think the spurs played very well in the 4th quarter. The last couple of executions were great, and they represent the highest level of nba plays! The Gay's last shot was really lucky.