Does Ron Paul have a chance?

[timvp]

I haven't been following the polls very closely. The short snippets I read seem to indicate Paul has no chance. But it seems like everywhere I go I see some sort of Ron Paul related pimpage. Whether it be bumper stickers, signs, flyers, business cards and my favorite - some peeps dressed up as the founding fathers chanting "Ron Paul Two Thousand Eight, Make This Country Great".

Gotta love his libertarian values but before I donate I'd like to know if there is at least a snowball's chance.

[Holt's Cat]

In the days of 3 networks and 2 colas Paul wouldn't have a chance. Today he does have a shot. Thanks to the one medium which big media has yet to control, Paul not only has an effective marketing tool, but an excellent fundraising one as well.

Paul has close to $20 mil in the bank. That can do some serious damage in the primaries. That will enable him to get his message to those who still rely on traditional media for their political information. Plus I think the grassroots campaign on the web will have a much bigger impact at the voting booth than is expected.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

I thought this was gonna be a vbookie. :)

I think he's got a GOOD fighting chance. His campaign and support has grown exponentially.
The military favors him,

and the entire gambling industry will be behind him:

Gamblin911.com -- "As Gambling911.com disclosed on Wednesday, online bookies were working feverishly trying to get their customers on the Ron Paul bandwagon. The Texas Congressman who is running as a 2008 US Presidential candidate has raised close to $20 million this quarter alone and - best of all for the online gambling industry, including online poker - Ron Paul is one of the few candidates who is pro Internet gambling.

Another artic;e from there --
"Gambling911 has Ron Paul in a dead heat tie for second with Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee among gamblers betting on the Republican race. Only Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and Rudy Giuliani lead overall in the odds to become the next President of the United States."



I think that it is accurate to believe that he polls low because his supporters are largely not called for polls. Many have never voted before and many are young people who don't have land-lines.

I gave him a whopping $20 bones. :lol f'ing inflation.....

[Holt's Cat]

It's a nice cycle. The media tells us who the top candidates are and then calls us and asks us who they told us are the top candidates so they can report that people actually pay attention to their reports.

Giuliani and Clinton are the top police state candidates, that's for certain.

[Mavtek]

I've given him more than $1,000, I've also given money to many of the grassroots efforts. I hope like hell he has a chance because I really do feel that he's the last chance we have to restore the republic to what it was meant to be. FYI I also belong to the SA meetup group, if you want to find out more join up see what's going on.

We've raised more money than anyone this quarter, we have our own grassroots commercials, and we work harder than anyone you've ever seen. The Ron Paul campaign is my new 1st job and my full time job that pays me is my 2nd. If you're not keen on donating to the campaign yet contact the SA meetup and I'm sure they wouldn't have a problem getting you a bumper sticker or a yard sign.

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/119/
We have over 300 members in SA and we'd love to have more.

[DarkReign]

No he doesnt have a chance. But I knew that when I gave him $$$.

Some may say thats dumb, that you shouldnt waste a vote knowing it doesnt make a difference.

I say, brother, there hasnt been any "difference" making in this country in 40 years. Maybe, just maybe, when the election is over and they analyze the results, they'll see a nice section of the population has grown tired of government in general.

Maybe Paul's campaign will influence future candidates and their policy.

Maybe. Either way, I wouldnt vote for anyone else out of good conscience.

[Extra Stout]

Maybe Paul's campaign will influence future candidates and their policy.
That's the reason to support Paul. He obviously is not actually going to win the Republican nomination. But, he does provide a stark contrast between the views of conservatives of 25 years ago (insofar as he shares them), and the views of the Republican establishment today.

[JoeChalupa]

Ron Paul does have a chance......1 in a million....but he still has a chance.

[Holt's Cat]

If you consider yourself a libertarian, Paul is the strongest candidate for your views in a long, long time.

The way I look at it is that one of the 'traditional' candidates is likely to win. So what's the point in having to hold your nose and support one of them instead of putting your chips on what you really believe?

I think what we're seeing is that the mainstream is getting concerned that if people actually hear Paul's views, they might like them. He has the $$ now to get those views out as well as the organization and he has enthusiastic support, not the bought support that other candidates have.

A strong showing by Paul in New Hampshire and Iowa could very well snowball. Never say never.

[JoeChalupa]

never

[01Snake]

Curious...what amounts of money are you donating?

[DarkReign]

So far, $399 dollars.

[Mavtek]

Katie Couric just reported on Ron Paul in New Hampshire currently at 3rd and rising.

[scott]

Does Ron Paul have a chance of being President? Not really.

Does Ron Paul have a chance to continue to change the way our election system works (a la pre-meltdown Dean 4 years ago)? Absolutely.

I don't think Paul is a very good libertarian (though he's as close as it gets in a National election), but to me his appeal is the effect he can have on the way our system works. Dean's meltdown 4 years ago proved costly for the non-traditional-candidate movement, but the momemtum he built up prior to that laid the ground for this type of grass-roots campaign. Paul's can continue to build such momentum and one day we may be able to have a viable candidate like Paul or some other 3rd party representative and threads like this one won't be needed because everyone will know the answer is "YES".

A vote for Paul is really a vote for Election Reform. At this point, it is really irrelevant what his platform is.

[MannyIsGod]

Can Ron Paul win? Yes, he can.

His chances of being nominated? I want to say about 20% or so. Ron Paul WILL pull in stronger numbers than are being predicted in Iowa. When Iowa is over with he's going to put together and even stronger showing in NH. He's more than likely not going to win either state, but the fact is that he's going to come in much higher than expected and he's going to get news coverage because of that. The MSM simply will NOT be able to ignore it at that point and everyone will want to hear about this guy that very few outside of the net know.

Thats where he's going to have to put together his 2 minute drill. Thats his opportunity to make the improbable happen. I don't see Ron Paul as an election reformist. He's simply a canddiate who's main demographic uses the internet more than any other medium and thats why he's performed the way he has. The thing is that his message will actually resonate with what this country wants if the country ends up voting on Iraq again.

I've felt good about Paul for months. He just steadily builds upon each minor victory and eventually each minor victory adds up and you have a pile of victories. We'll see if its enough. I really hope it is.

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/Zogby:_Ron_Paul_Will_Surp/2007/12/21/59011.html

[exstatic]

http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/Zogby:_Ron_Paul_Will_Surp/2007/12/21/59011.html
That page is fucked up. It keeps redirecting me to some sort of cleaner product for the PC which tripped my AV software when it autodownloaded something to my PC. Beware.

[MannyIsGod]

weird all i get is the article.

[Guru of Nothing]

A Mormon
One of the most divisive figures in American political history (female too)
A black Muslim
A cross-dressing New Yorker
A conservative white male.

Don't underestimate the power of inertia. He has a chance.

[Nbadan]

A black Muslim

:wtf

[scott]

Perception is reality.

[smeagol]

Who cares who wins the election . . . things are always pretty much the same in the US anyways, regardless who is in power.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

If only Ron Paul openly advocated the repeated nuking of Argentina, I would donate even more money to his cause.

[smeagol]

thanks for your dos centavos, fascist
Fascist? Why don't you back up your shit, for once in your life.

[smeagol]

If only Ron Paul openly advocated the repeated nuking of Argentina, I would donate even more money to his cause.

Why do you pussies get mad when somebody tells you the truth?

Things change very little in America when governemnts change color, wether you like it or not.

You think that the average American is much worse off today with Bush than what he was 10 yerars ago with Clinton?

[smeagol]

By the way, cbf and pimpo, if you are mad because of what I said, take it up with your fellow countrymen.

They care less than me who is in power governing you guys. Or why else do you think only 20-25% of the population votes?

[Guru of Nothing]

:wtf

Damn, maybe I should pay attention now that we have less than a year to go before the election.

[MannyIsGod]

Why do you pussies get mad when somebody tells you the truth?

Things change very little in America when governemnts change color, wether you like it or not.

You think that the average American is much worse off today with Bush than what he was 10 yerars ago with Clinton?I remember when I said some shit abour Argentina you went off like a rabid chiuauah. Glass houses, Smeagol.

And you're very wrong as well.

My life has been incredibly different because of who is in office.

[Kori Ellis]

Who cares who wins the election . . . things are always pretty much the same in the US anyways, regardless who is in power.

No they aren't.



They care less than me who is in power governing you guys. Or why else do you think only 20-25% of the population votes?

That's not the reason only 25% of people vote. Some people don't vote because they are lazy. But many people also don't vote because the choices suck. For example in the Bush/Gore election, the majority of people I know didn't vote because they didn't want either of them. I know you are going to say then get better people nominated, blahblah. It's not that easy, considering only the people with lots of money have a chance to get nominated. And the people with lots of money are not usually the best choices.

[johngateswhiteley]

Argentina has the hottest women in the world. i'll protect your country smeagol.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

i don't know about him. he sounds good, but i don't know if what he wants will actually go thru and pass the congress. there's no way in hell he'll get in if he wants to get rid of the FBI, IRS, and DOE among others and make that all known up front. i hope he holds true to what he said that he's only running as a republican and not an independent. if he does, then we'll have our first bitch for a president. if that happens than God help us all.

[johngateswhiteley]

imo, Paul is the best candidate with a chance...by far.

[whottt]

An honest man with integrity has no business running the government people. I will never trust someone like that to run the US of A. It'll suck. See Carter, Jimmy.


Governments aren't meant to be run by completely honest people...they are too naive and trusting...it takes a dishonest person to know a dishonest person and you need them to keep the really dishonest people out. That sound may sound contradictory...but it really is the way it is.


Partially corrupt people accountable to their citizenry are definitely the way to go...the ones that are corrupt enough to know and understand the corrupt motives of others...but still have enough of a conscience to not be completely corrupt themselves....plus they'll want the legacy of being a great leader, so you can trust them to do certain beneficial things.


You people that think a trustworthy government is possible scare the hell out of me.




There's never been one in history...there never will be one in history.


And the guys who seem completely trustworthy and honest are hard enough to trust as it is...

I personally never trust anyone that tells me they never lie...because that's a huge lie.

[Ignignokt]

I expect Ron Paul to win.......as representative of victoria Tx and it's affiliates.


bukkakes.

internets.

Rawfl!

[smeagol]

I remember when I said some shit abour Argentina you went off like a rabid chiuauah. Glass houses, Smeagol.


You made a joke, which had bad taste written all over it, about the Malvinas/Falklands war.



My life has been incredibly different because of who is in office.

And this is exclusevley because of how Clinton and Bush governed the country?

[smeagol]

You lament that nothing in America seems to change as a result of getting new leaders in power.

Seems to me that you are advocating for a highly centralized, top-down hierarchical system of government. Furthermore, in the context of the presidential election, which is what this thread is about, seems to me you are advocating particularly for such a system to be headed by a strong, authoritarian leader.

Making you a fascist.

:lol

Fail. One more time. Go post in the increase your postcount thread

[johngateswhiteley]

I expect Ron Paul to win.......as representative of victoria Tx and it's affiliates.


bukkakes.

internets.

Rawfl!

you're doing well.

[MannyIsGod]

You made a joke, which had bad taste written all over it, about the Malvinas/Falklands war. Make any justifcations and clarfications you want but the point stands that if you make comments about a person's country they may not like be prepared to deal with the reaction.




And this is exclusevley because of how Clinton and Bush governed the country?You never said anything about exclusevity. Don't go and change your stance now because you may have realized how stupid of a blanket statement you made. I don't even understand how you're trying to defend that who the president is doesn't make a difference in the lives of Americans. Thats beyond ridiculous Smeagol.

[Boris]

Can I have some of that herb you're smoking Smeagol?

[smeagol]

Make any justifcations and clarfications you want but the point stands that if you make comments about a person's country they may not like be prepared to deal with the reaction.

No justifications. Just reminding you what had happened way back when you made your "joke". Actually, you even appologized for it. No reason for me to appologize, unless you feel deeply offended due to what I said.

Actually, if you think about it, what I said is a compliment to your country. The US has reached such a level of development, its governement has to really be screw things up to affect its citizens' way of life (see Jimmy Carter).

Come down to Argentina and you'll get a taste of how the government affects you dramatically with every little decision they takes. i.e., every year, these fuckers create a new tax. Imagine trying to go through life with one or two ammendments to the tax law every year.



You never said anything about exclusevity.

Well, it is obvious that that is what I meant. If you were a college boy during the Clinton days, and you are in the 30s today, working through your second or third job, it is obvious your life has changed.

But it has nothing to do with who is in power.


Don't go and change your stance now because you may have realized how stupid of a blanket statement you made.

Again, it is a compliment to the US economy, not a stupid blanket statement. And for the mayority of it's population it is true (it might not be for you, or Kori).

Again, explain to me why you are better off today than in the 90s (or vice versa) because of what Clinton or Bush did or did not do.


I don't even understand how you're trying to defend that who the president is doesn't make a difference in the lives of Americans.

In general terms, it doesn't. Change in the US takes long because of the level of maturity it's economic and political system enjoys.


Thats beyond ridiculous Smeagol.

I disagree, Manuel. You have your POV and I have mine.

[smeagol]

Can I have some of that herb you're smoking Smeagol?
It's calle mate. And you drink it.

[MannyIsGod]

Dude - seriously?

Do i really need to outline changes to my life simply based on who is in power for you to understand how ridiculous your statement is?

[Ignignokt]

Dude - seriously?

Do i really need to outline changes to my life simply based on who is in power for you to understand how ridiculous your statement is?


Well, you are the one that made the claim, now back it up.

You don't have to tell anyone what color shit you crapped a week ago, but you should back up what you're saying.

[smeagol]

Dude - seriously?

Do i really need to outline changes to my life simply based on who is in power for you to understand how ridiculous your statement is?
Be my guest.

I was in the States during the latter Clinton years and most of the Bush administration. I saw no major differences, as many of other Americans working around me.

My claim is that it does not change for the majorty of Americans.

Maybe you are part of the minority.

[Ignignokt]

THe major change manny experienced was not having enough money to tip the pizza man during the bush years.

[medstudent]

Smeagol does'nt know anything. Now, children go without healthcare thanks to Bush.

[JoeChalupa]

Things always change under a new president. Always.

[whottt]

LOL@ smeagol...

I want to thank you for getting these guys to defend their country...well done. Just sort of warms my heart. Would you mind mixing in some of your anti-war sentiment with your anti-american rhetoric and see if we can make some progress on that front? Thanks, in advance.

[JoeChalupa]

These guys? I always defend my country and have proudly. Thank ya, thank ya very much.

[smeagol]

LOL@ smeagol...

I want to thank you for getting these guys to defend their country...well done.

You're welcome



Would you mind mixing in some of your anti-war sentiment with your anti-american rhetoric and see if we can make some progress on that front? Thanks, in advance.

Point me to my anti-american rhetoric.

Thanks in advance.

[smeagol]

Smeagol does'nt know anything. Now, children go without healthcare thanks to Bush.

I know where apostrophes go.

So children had free healthcare in the 1990s?

[whottt]

If smeagol can get boutons or Nbadan to come in here and defend the good ole' US of A I think he deserves a Spur.


Actually...I'm not that surprised he got the V-crew and Manny in here to do it as these guys are pretty open minded and not necessarily hardwired to the right or the left like most people....they are more about disliking the current situation than anything else. The V-crew are actually kind of old school in their political views...Still...it feels good to see to many people that are extremely critical of the country these days rallying to it's defense against the subversive influence of the one known as smeagol



FWIW...smeagol is not a fascist, well, no more so than any other Argie, he wants to feed the world's poor and thinks America(and Argentina) should stay the fuck out of the World's business(except wehn it comes to Argentina and trade).


...the problem is that smeagol is from a country that is the child of one of the most politically schizophrenic countries in history, and inherited that trait...there's no such thing as moderate Argie from the America pov...they are an extremely polarized people politically...which usually ends up in their electing extremist and corrupt leadership. Something America inches closer and closer to doing with each passing year I might add...there are very few moderate candidates these days, and plenty of extremists...add in the fact that Independent extremists are starting to make headway, to split up the voting blocks, and weaken the moderate stance even more...and the day America sees it's first true extremist in the Industrial Age...is growing with each passing day.


smeagol....what you see in America is called stability and moderation...


It's a system that makes it impossible for elected leadership to say, fuck, half the population....no matter how badly they want to do so. That's not the case in your country...you guys continually elected leaders that say, fuck, half the population.


You come from a country that makes extreme left rigth political swings every 20 years or so.....you are used to seeing extreme radical change as a result of change of leadership....and so Americas more subtle change seems to be one that is almost non-existent to you.

As I said earlier...that's called stability, and it's why our country is able to do more than just be in a continual state of reversing the previous leaderships policies...like lead the free world, and be it's economic powerhouse.


That's what moderation can do you for you. That's what can happen when you don't have 25 different major political parties...and that's what you can do with a large population that is willing to swing to the left, or the right, from the middle, depending on the political climate of the World and the countries needs.




IT's that whole peaceful transfer of power thing....it's like the Jay Novacek of the US political system...never gets the credit it deserves...but once it's gone, so is America as we know it. Something to remember every time that spark of hatred for Bush ignites in your stomach...


Hatred is still hatred...no matter how deserving the target, and if you are permanently hardwired to the right or to the left...you are not an openminded person. IF you are continually on the right or the left, you are wrong 50% of the time. No matter how much you may think otherwise.

[smeagol]

Thanks for agreeing with me, whottt :tu

[Cant_Be_Faded]

When will anyone in this forum realize that once senor smeagol says something regarding the United States of America, it is a finished conversation. He is an expert at everything USA. From its history, culture, to today's current politics and conspiracies. You name it, if it involved the USA, smeagol will own you on it and nail you.
This is exactly why i want to nuke argentina. To imagine an entire country of smeagols just flat out scares me.

[Oscar DeLa]

I don't know what it is but smeagol you got ruined ugly style

[smeagol]

I don't know what it is but smeagol you got ruined ugly style
Your opinion is as worthless as one from LMB

[whottt]

Thanks for agreeing with me, whottt :tu


I don't agree with you really. The USA changes...it's just you are used to complete political spectrum swings...from straight up socialism, to straight up fascism...


The USA doesn't swing as much...but it does change substantially...our foreign policy for example...

We would not be in Iraq right now if Clinton or Gore were President...I'd say that's a pretty substantial change....seeing as how that is the top international political issue in the world.

[mookie2001]

smeagol you got bloadded

[Ignignokt]

I don't agree with you really. The USA changes...it's just you are used to complete political spectrum swings...from straight up socialism, to straight up fascism...


The USA doesn't swing as much...but it does change substantially...our foreign policy for example...

We would not be in Iraq right now if Clinton or Gore were President...I'd say that's a pretty substantial change....seeing as how that is the top international political issue in the world.


but smeag's point, was how has it if affected one personally.

unless you're a soldier, one should prove of how one's life has changed.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol @ Whottt saying just because we don't have cultural seizures each time an election is held doesn't mean we don't experience change and smeagol thinking Whottt was agreeing with him. Classic.

I'll just list a few of the changes I have experienced. And I asure you that all of these with the acception of anything poker related have touched the lives of millions of citizens and many have touched the lives of people all across the globe.

-Anything having to do with Iraq.
-the amount of taxes I pay
-the amount of student financial aid I am able (or in this case unable) to get
-the ease (or difficulty rather) of how I am able to conduct my line of work

And thats just what I can think of off the top of my head and without even getting into the disaterous forgien policy we've seen over the past 8 years.

[MannyIsGod]

but smeag's point, was how has it if affected one personally.

unless you're a soldier, one should prove of how one's life has changed.Its retarded to think that what happens to the military doesn't touch the lives of almost every single American in some way shape or form in a military conflict this large. And thats simply one angle of looking at how the government has affected lives in this country.

[MannyIsGod]

Just look at lists of legislation passed during this presidency. And look at lists that didn't pass. You don't think these laws enact change? You think they don't effect people across this country?

[smeagol]

smeagol you got bloadded
Thanks for adding so much value

[Ignignokt]

:lol @ Whottt saying just because we don't have cultural seizures each time an election is held doesn't mean we don't experience change and smeagol thinking Whottt was agreeing with him. Classic.

I'll just list a few of the changes I have experienced. And I asure you that all of these with the acception of anything poker related have touched the lives of millions of citizens and many have touched the lives of people all across the globe.

-Anything having to do with Iraq.
Unless you have a family member serving, a freind or yourself, you have not been impacted in that way.

-the amount of taxes I pay

For what? on the federal level where bush has a say, we pay less income taxes than the the clinton years.


-the amount of student financial aid I am able (or in this case unable) to get.

That has all to do with your state passing the 135 credit hour vote, what does the president of the United states have to do with you not being able to finish all the classes you take, and not making up your mind on your major?

-the ease (or difficulty rather) of how I am able to conduct my line of work.

what is your line of work, instead of being vague and how did the administration make it harder for you?, you made the conclusion that your life has been harder, the burden is on you. Unless you want us to take your assumptions on faith?

And thats just what I can think of off the top of my head and without even getting into the disaterous forgien policy we've seen over the past 8 years.

you did mention the foreign policy aspect of it. That was your first point. SO you really haven't supported your declarations that you've had it harder.

[Ignignokt]

Its retarded to think that what happens to the military doesn't touch the lives of almost every single American in some way shape or form in a military conflict this large. And thats simply one angle of looking at how the government has affected lives in this country.


Funny how i'd expect you to say that what happen in Mogadishu didn't affect you, otherwise if you said it didn't you'd contradict your main point.

ANd if you want to compare numbers and say "well mogadishu was only 20 casualties, it doesn't amount to 2,000".

That argument would have no legs seeing as 2000 casualties is very small for a 4 yr war.

Santa Anna lost that amount at the alamo.

Our military weakness in mogadishu was cited by osama as being the rallying cry for his terrorist network to do the task.

Shit, the war on terror was being planned half way into the Clinton administration, and both administrations did nothing to stop it.

perspective please.

[MannyIsGod]

Why are you turning this into a Bush is better than Clinton thing or vice versa? Thats all subjective and so open to judgement that its not even funny, but to argue that things are not different is entirely independent of whether or not you feel they are better.

I'm not here to argue whether or not they would be better with Gore/Kerry/anyone else or Bush or whether or not they will be better in the future on any particular candidate. What I am saying is that there is a large and pronounced difference either way you go.


Unless you have a family member serving, a freind or yourself, you have not been impacted in that way.

Really? So if you employ someone who has been called up then you aren't affected? So if your tax dollars are being spent in Iraq you're not effected? So if want to travel to certain places abroad you're not affected? Do I need to go on? You're view on this is really narrow.



For what? on the federal level where bush has a say, we pay less income taxes than the the clinton years.


Ok? And less =! different? Because I thought it did.



That has all to do with your state passing the 135 credit hour vote, what does the president of the United states have to do with you not being able to finish all the classes you take, and not making up your mind on your major?

You should do some research into the Bush administration and Pell Grants.




what is your line of work, instead of being vague and how did the administration make it harder for you?, you made the conclusion that your life has been harder, the burden is on you. Unless you want us to take your assumptions on faith?

Many people here know what I do. If you don't, I don't care. Its well documented on this board how this has become more difficult for me. :lol @ the burden is on me. Not if I don't give a shit whether or not you believe me or not.


you did mention the foreign policy aspect of it. That was your first point. SO you really haven't supported your declarations that you've had it harder.

No, I mentioned Iraq. You think the State Dept should be renamed the "All We Deal With Is Iraq Dept"? I'm not sure Condi wants the title of Secretary of "All I Deal With Is Iraq". Foreign policy involves a shitload more than just Iraq even if Iraq is a large(est) portion of it right now.

As for your next post, like I said I'm not sure why you're sitting there turning this into a Clinton<Bush argument when the context of the post prior to yours were no where near that.

[spurster]

To me, the following are the key issues in this election:

Iraq (and how to deal with terrorism in general)
Global Warming
Health Care
Immigration

I think I might agree with Ron Paul on one of these issues.

[johngateswhiteley]

Be my guest.

I was in the States during the latter Clinton years and most of the Bush administration. I saw no major differences, as many of other Americans working around me.

My claim is that it does not change for the majorty of Americans.

Maybe you are part of the minority.

i basically agree, i don't think much changes. some small things here and there, but nothing that isn't easy to adapt to. i can't imagine most people adjust their cruise control....which is sad really and whats so frustrating, imo. i'd love change.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

To me, the following are the key issues in this election:

Iraq (and how to deal with terrorism in general)
Global Warming
Health Care
Immigration

I think I might agree with Ron Paul on one of these issues.
global warming? the "y2k" of the times. global warming is nothing but a globalist ploy to get more taxes out of you. please don't just follow the crowd on this "issue".

[Ignignokt]

Why are you turning this into a Bush is better than Clinton thing or vice versa? Thats all subjective and so open to judgement that its not even funny, but to argue that things are not different is entirely independent of whether or not you feel they are better.

I wasn't turning it into a bush vs clinton thing, show me where i said bush was better than clinton. If anything that would dissuade my argument.

I'm not here to argue whether or not they would be better with Gore/Kerry/anyone else or Bush or whether or not they will be better in the future on any particular candidate. What I am saying is that there is a large and pronounced difference either way you go.

I get it, because MannyisGod says so. Good logic!

Really? So if you employ someone who has been called up then you aren't affected? So if your tax dollars are being spent in Iraq you're not effected? So if want to travel to certain places abroad you're not affected? Do I need to go on? You're view on this is really narrow.

Your tax dollars will be spent on something else regardless. Your taxes haven't been raised, so it's not as if you're spending new taxes on the war.



Ok? And less =! different? Because I thought it did.



You should do some research into the Bush administration and Pell Grants.

He's raising the pell grant max.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/01/AR2007020101866.html



Many people here know what I do. If you don't, I don't care. Its well documented on this board how this has become more difficult for me. :lol @ the burden is on me. Not if I don't give a shit whether or not you believe me or not.

That's good, you shouldn't care if you throw out baseless claims which you failed to back up and get called for it. But you did. And now you're expressing anger at smeagol and i.

But then again you don't care. You've been talking as if you hold the truth and if you say so it must be. You must have a huge ego to expect everyone to back up what they say yet expect everyone to take your claims at face value.

Hey guess what? Shit happens wether Bush CLinton Kerry or Gore are in office. Stop blaming administrations for your troubles. After all that's so un libertarian of you.



No, I mentioned Iraq. You think the State Dept should be renamed the "All We Deal With Is Iraq Dept"? I'm not sure Condi wants the title of Secretary of "All I Deal With Is Iraq". Foreign policy involves a shitload more than just Iraq even if Iraq is a large(est) portion of it right now.

Well you only mentioned iraq, and didn't even want to mention what of his foreign policy other than Iraq, personally affected you. Don't blame me. I just asked you to elaborate.

As for your next post, like I said I'm not sure why you're sitting there turning this into a Clinton<Bush argument when the context of the post prior to yours were no where near that.

I actually equated bush to clinton, and said both did nothing to stop 911 in that post. Sorry you hate comprehending the opponent in the debate while expecting him to take your word at face value without backup.

[Ignignokt]

If bush wasn't in office and gore was, Manny would be paying those IRaq tax dollars towards bullshit global warming agenda.

Same money going towards what manny considers to be fruitless causes. And at the end of the day, he still won't be able to tip the pizza delivery guy.

[Xylus]

But does Ron Paul have a chance?

[01Snake]

I haven't really paid much attention to any of the candidates yet but I found this at another site and thought it was interesting.


Ron Paul is staunchly pro-life, which some of you agree with and some don't.

What you might not realize is that the bill he champions (authored and constantly pushes), HR 300 and its variants, would roll back ALL federal court decisions on sexual practices.

You can cheer for the "no gay marriage" and abortion implications of this, but some of you might be disappointed to find that ALL forms of birth control would once again become illegal (in many states).

Ron Paul seems to think that's ok.

[smeagol]

:lol @ Whottt saying just because we don't have cultural seizures each time an election is held doesn't mean we don't experience change and smeagol thinking Whottt was agreeing with him. Classic.

lol @ manny thinking he is taking a crack at me by adding the word "Classic" to his quote, when in fact I do agree with everything whottt said on his long post, because it is exactly what I had in mind when I said it does not matter who wins the US Presidential election given that there is no substantial change for the common citizen.


I'll just list a few of the changes I have experienced. And I asure you that all of these with the acception of anything poker related have touched the lives of millions of citizens and many have touched the lives of people all across the globe.

Ok. Let's see.


-Anything having to do with Iraq.

And this has affected you how? You have to take your shoes off at airports? There is extra security to go through when entering a federal building?


-the amount of taxes I pay


Percentagewise, how much have they changed?


-the amount of student financial aid I am able (or in this case unable) to get


Is this Federal governemnt related? How has it changed?



-the ease (or difficulty rather) of how I am able to conduct my line of work


???

Please expand . . .


And thats just what I can think of off the top of my head and without even getting into the disaterous forgien policy we've seen over the past 8 years.

The disastrous foreign policy actually affects much more people who leave overseas than it does Americans. Try to come up with a different example.

Bottom line, manny, I have to agree with whottt and with an MB post on some other thread: all some Americans do is bitch all they long and have no clue how good they have it.

As I said before, my "regardless which candidate wins, little changes" was a compliment to the US economic and political systems. Moderation and stability sums it up. But you, and the idiots from the V crowd, took it the wrong way.

[smeagol]

I haven't really paid much attention to any of the candidates yet but I found this at another site and thought it was interesting.


Ron Paul is staunchly pro-life, which some of you agree with and some don't.

What you might not realize is that the bill he champions (authored and constantly pushes), HR 300 and its variants, would roll back ALL federal court decisions on sexual practices.

You can cheer for the "no gay marriage" and abortion implications of this, but some of you might be disappointed to find that ALL forms of birth control would once again become illegal (in many states).

Ron Paul seems to think that's ok.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Now that is funny!

[smeagol]

Smeagol is the new Clandestino!
I sure am . . . :rolleyes

[smeagol]

i basically agree, i don't think much changes. some small things here and there, but nothing that isn't easy to adapt to. i can't imagine most people adjust their cruise control....which is sad really and whats so frustrating, imo. i'd love change.

:clap :clap :clap :clap

[MannyIsGod]

This is the kind of myopic bullshit that turns me off to this forum.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Its funny because smeagol moved to this country, mooched off it like any other POS foreigner, and once he's safely huddled back in his own worthless country he thinks he knows everything about america.

The most disgusting trait possible in a human being today is someone who is foreign, coming to my country, taking advantage of its opportunities, and then speaks out of their ass with no real basis to the shit they talk. Every time i hear shit like this I want to punch them in their pompous faces. This forum provides ample space and time for senor smeagol to back up his opinions logically, but its all BS. Because he's a typical foreigner whose country deserves to be nuked.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Oh, look at me, my country is a swamp with people who noone in the world would miss if they all just disappeared, let me come into the greatest country in existence, utilize its opportunities to make money, move back to my country that is so poor I become even richer by exchange rate alone, then sit in my house and pretend I know more about your country than you, look at me, I'm senor smeagol.

[mookie2001]

Its funny because smeagol moved to this country, mooched off it like any other POS foreigner, and once he's safely huddled back in his own worthless country he thinks he knows everything about america.

The most disgusting trait possible in a human being today is someone who is foreign, coming to my country, taking advantage of its opportunities, and then speaking out of their ass with no real basis to the shit they talk. This forum provides ample space and time for senor smeagol to back up his opinions logically, but its all BS. Because he's a typical foreigner whose country deserves to be nuked.its funny because its true

[Mavtek]

I haven't really paid much attention to any of the candidates yet but I found this at another site and thought it was interesting.


Ron Paul is staunchly pro-life, which some of you agree with and some don't.

What you might not realize is that the bill he champions (authored and constantly pushes), HR 300 and its variants, would roll back ALL federal court decisions on sexual practices.

You can cheer for the "no gay marriage" and abortion implications of this, but some of you might be disappointed to find that ALL forms of birth control would once again become illegal (in many states).

Ron Paul seems to think that's ok.

WTF? Where in the hell have you heard that?

HR300:
We the People Act - Prohibits the Supreme Court and each federal court from adjudicating any claim or relying on judicial decisions involving: (1) state or local laws, regulations, or policies concerning the free exercise or establishment of religion; (2) the right of privacy, including issues of sexual practices, orientation, or reproduction; or (3) the right to marry without regard to sex or sexual orientation where based upon equal protection of the laws.
Allows the Supreme Court and the federal courts to determine the constitutionality of federal statutes, administrative rules, or procedures in considering cases arising under the Constitution. Prohibits the Supreme Court and the federal courts from issuing any ruling that appropriates or expends money, imposes taxes, or otherwise interferes with the legislative functions or administrative discretion of the states.
Authorizes any party or intervener in matters before any federal court, including the Supreme Court, to challenge the jurisdiction of the court under this Act.
Provides that the violation of this Act by any justice or judge is an impeachable offense and a material breach of good behavior subject to removal.
Negates as binding precedent on the state courts any federal court decision that relates to an issue removed from federal jurisdiction by this Act.


Now please explain to me where you got your ridiculous claim that this would outlaw birth control?

[Ignignokt]

crofl smegmal owned by cbf


Elpimpo owned... sexually by cbf.

[whottt]

I hate America

[Ignignokt]

But I love america...american pro wrestling, cuz i'm gay and love to see lubed up men slap hard meat against each other.

[smeagol]

This is the kind of myopic bullshit that turns me off to this forum.

A long time ago it was fun to discuss politics with you . . .

[smeagol]

Its funny because smeagol moved to this country, mooched off it like any other POS foreigner, and once he's safely huddled back in his own worthless country he thinks he knows everything about america.

The most disgusting trait possible in a human being today is someone who is foreign, coming to my country, taking advantage of its opportunities, and then speaks out of their ass with no real basis to the shit they talk. Every time i hear shit like this I want to punch them in their pompous faces. This forum provides ample space and time for senor smeagol to back up his opinions logically, but its all BS. Because he's a typical foreigner whose country deserves to be nuked.

Wow . . . you know all about me . . . :rolleyes

[smeagol]

its funny because its true



crofl smegmal owned by cbf


Yet again the mookie crowd suprises me with witty one liners backing each others moronic posts.

[smeagol]

Oh, look at me, my country is a swamp with people who noone in the world would miss if they all just disappeared, let me come into the greatest country in existence, utilize its opportunities to make money, move back to my country that is so poor I become even richer by exchange rate alone, then sit in my house and pretend I know more about your country than you, look at me, I'm senor smeagol.

cbf enjoys talking out of his rear end . . . once again . . .

Given that manny is turned off by these discussions, why don't you enrich us all by telling us how your every day life has changed from the Clinton years to the Bush years?

[ggoose25]

Its funny because smeagol moved to this country, mooched off it like any other POS foreigner, and once he's safely huddled back in his own worthless country he thinks he knows everything about america.

The most disgusting trait possible in a human being today is someone who is foreign, coming to my country, taking advantage of its opportunities, and then speaks out of their ass with no real basis to the shit they talk. Every time i hear shit like this I want to punch them in their pompous faces. This forum provides ample space and time for senor smeagol to back up his opinions logically, but its all BS. Because he's a typical foreigner whose country deserves to be nuked.

My knee jerk reaction is to say CBF is being a hater. But the more I thought about this, the more I agree with it.

Exhibit A: The Latin Immigrant

If you want to stay here, work hard, make money, and send it back home.... go ahead. I'm not going to stop you. But if you think for one second you have the right to bash this country after working it for all you could get, GTFO.

Exhibit B: The Self Righteous Euro Trash

They come here and get their green card, get a good job, and then whine about EVERYTHING while simultaneously refusing to find fault with their own country's obvious flaws. If your country is so great, why the hell did you come to this one?

That being said, if an immigrant comes here and decides to become a citizen out of respect and commitment to this country they have just as much right as those born here to criticize it.

[smeagol]

If you want to stay here, work hard, make money, and send it back home.... go ahead. I'm not going to stop you. But if you think for one second you have the right to bash this country after working it for all you could get, GTFO.

Please point to where I bash the US.

In this thread, I have only praised it.

[ggoose25]

Wasnt directed to you brah. I meant in general. I don't even know you.

[whottt]

I'm an obvious to all but myself closeted homo who has hardcore fantasies obviously formulated by watching gay porn, and attributes them to others on message boards, and I hate America

[Ignignokt]

Timvp likes to put me in pig tails and squirt his sperms all over my braces. I do it while wearing a star spangled banner mini skirt allong with my school girl top. (slurp)

[whottt]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2143469&postcount=100

[Ignignokt]

I too can spew homo erotic jokes, but don't call me on it.

[whottt]

LOL dude...there's a big difference between calling someone a cocksucker and going into lengthy and graphic detailing of sex acts between two men.....time and time and again...for like 15 consecutive posts.

Take a look at this thread for instance...take a look at how everyone was engaged in a simple flame war or political smack talk...until you started losing your inhibitions and opening your mind for all to see...



There's a difference there bud...I guess you are too close to the flame to see it.

[JoeChalupa]

This is the kind of myopic bullshit that turns me off to this forum.

You take this myopic bullshit too seriously. I think it is fun myself.

[Ignignokt]

LOL dude...there's a big difference between calling someone a cocksucker and going into lengthy and graphic detailing of sex acts between two men.....time and time and again...for like 15 consecutive posts.

Take a look at this thread for instance...take a look at how everyone was engaged in a simple flame war or political smack talk...until you started losing your inhibitions and opening your mind for all to see...



There's a difference there bud...I guess you are too close to the flame to see it.


Losing my inhibition, at what? :lol
You calling me an anti american?

As if that isn't cheapshoting out of a conversation.

Sorry pal, one cheapshot deserves another.

I did fine arguing with manny without calling him names, or bringing out the homo jokes.

Not my fault you feel unease whenever you see gay jokes on the nets, put an ice pak on it, and deal with it. Quit crying when you get your own medicine served to you.



Just look at your posting techniques, if you don't like the way someone percieves things, you call them cock sucker, terrorist lovers, anti americans, and you even go the length to talk about how they are graphically pleasing osama. Hypocrite.

What nerve you have to bitch about how one is conducting oneself in a forum when it was you who called that person anti american.

[whottt]

Losing my inhibition, at what? :lol
You calling me an anti american?

As if that isn't cheapshoting out of a conversation.

Sorry pal, one cheapshot deserves another.

I did fine arguing with manny without calling him names, or bringing out the homo jokes.

Not my fault you feel unease whenever you see gay jokes on the nets, put an ice pak on it, and deal with it. Quit crying when you get your own medicine served to you.



Just look at your posting techniques, if you don't like the way someone percieves things, you call them cock sucker, terrorist lovers, anti americans, and you even go the length to talk about how they are graphically pleasing osama. Hypocrite.

What nerve you have to bitch about how one is conducting oneself in a forum when it was you who called that person anti american.


Sorry...didn't mean to hit a nerve.

[Ignignokt]

Sorry...didn't mean to hit a nerve.


www.cut&pastecomebacks.com

[whottt]

The least you could do is say thanks for helping break your obsessive homo thought cycle...

[Ignignokt]

The least you could do is say thanks for helping break your obsessive homo thought cycle...

Maybe you could make my thought cycle like yours, you know. Like the "You hate america, quit sucking terrorsit cock, obsessive homo- lite" thought cycle.

[Ignignokt]

Whott has become the Joe Dirt version of Chumpdumper, he's almost mastering his Master Baiter tactics.

[JoeChalupa]

:lmao I get the "you hate America" and "aiding the enemy" and "you love the terrorists" BS all the time. You just have to laugh and move on. It happens from all side.
Whottt is cool though. :smokin

[whottt]

I use homosmack comments to insult the manhood of others who I disgree with, a tried and true method in both sports and political arguments


You OTOH, detail graphic explicit sexual fantasies between two males, at the drop of a hat and with little or no provocation with a tremendous amount of exuberance...and you do it frequently.



Case in point:

Whottt to someone who has pissed him off: Why don't you just go ahead and suck Usama off while you're at it.




Gtown to someone who hasn't even pissed him off, but given him any kind of an opening to really cut loose:

Why don't you just lube up and slap hard sweaty meat together dress yourself in pigtails and let him squirt his sperms all over your braces.



15 posts in a row.



No my friend...there's a diffence there. The intent behind mine is to insult someone's manhood...the intent behind yours is to outlet your supressed homosexual fantasies.....

[whottt]

Whott: PWNT

GTown: PWNT...sexually.

[RichardSimmons]

I use homosmack comments to insult the manhood of others who I disgree with, a tried and true method in both sports and political arguments


No my friend...there's a diffence there. The intent behind mine is to insult someone's manhood...the intent behind yours is to outlet your supressed homosexual fantasies.....

I hear that excuse everyday from so called heterosexual homophobes with a hidden desire to "experiment'.

[whottt]

I hear that excuse everyday from so called heterosexual homophobes with a hidden desire to "experiment'.


I'm not a homphobe...I use homosmack to piss people off because...dammit it's the best way to insult someone's manhood...it's just that simple.


Mine leaves people pissed off and wanting to punch me in the face...and I've got the examples with certain posters on this board to prove it...


Gtown leaves you feeling like you picked the wrong night to go to the gym and need to get the fuck out of the lockerroom...


And btw...nice troll.

[Ignignokt]

I use homosmack comments to insult the manhood of others who I disgree with, a tried and true method in both sports and political arguments


You OTOH, use better detail graphic explicit sexual fantasies between two males, of which i can't compete therefore i immediately go to the actual act of questioning one's orientation, because i feel threatened. <I thought all homosmack involved the description of two males, is whott like 12 and so naive.? :lol I guess Timvp hasn't sat him down and had the talk.>



Case in point:

Whottt to someone who has pissed him off: Why don't you just go ahead and suck Usama off while you're at it.




Gtown to someone who hasn't even pissed him off, but given him any kind of an opening to really cut loose:

Why don't you just lube up and slap hard sweaty meat together dress yourself in pigtails and let him squirt his sperms all over your braces.



15 posts in a row.

<<<<<where did i do that on this thread. I argued with manny finely. You're not worth debating, you're a nitwit and therefore i must stoop to your level to make you comprehend how weak your post are.>>>>>>>>


No my friend...there's a diffence there. The intent behind mine is to insult someone's manhood...the intent behind yours is to outlet your supressed homosexual fantasies... :lol ..

lmao, and the intent of whottdaFuck is to question peoples homosexuality at all times whether it be on political smack or homo smack.

One can't use homo smack on whott, only whott can.

I guess whott owns the term.:lmao

[whottt]

Ran off for an hour and that's the best you could come up with?


Probably wouldn't have even returned if Richard Simmons hadn't shown up to get your back...which I'm sure you appreciated.

[Ignignokt]

Whott: PWNT

GTown: PWNT...sexually.


more like..


Whott: Get on your knees suck osama's balls, terrorist lover!

Spurstalk Poster: Your an idiot.

Whott:
*suckle*


Gtown: WHott is only taking his frustration out on all of you because he couldn't take it out on his boyfreinds asshole the other night while they were playing twister.

Whott: <Pouting> Awwh why? why do you have to resort to homosmack? You must be gay.

[Ignignokt]

Ran off for an hour and that's the best you could come up with?


Probably wouldn't have even returned if Richard Simmons hadn't shown up to get your back...which I'm sure you appreciated.


case in point.

[whottt]

Spurstalk Poster: Your an idiot.


That's about right....

[Ignignokt]

^^whottdafuck strikes *edit* himself *edit*again.

[whottt]

Whott: Get on your knees suck osama's balls, terrorist lover!

Gtown: WHott is only taking his frustration out on all of you because he couldn't take it out on his boyfreinds asshole the other night while they were playing twister.


I'd say that's about right...

Mine leaves the poster feeling insulted....

Yours leaves you wanting to see if you were exposed to HEP C.

[Ignignokt]

if whott had boobs and blonde hair, he'd be miss teen south carolina with homosmack.

[Ignignokt]

I'd say that's about right...

Mine leaves the poster feeling insulted....

Yours leaves you wanting to see if you were exposed to HEP C.


How bout "Whott assembling a coherent political thought, insults everyone."

[whottt]

case in point.


What do you mean by case in point?

Care to elaborate?

[whottt]

How bout "Whott assembling a coherent political thought, insults everyone."


At last...I feel insulted, rather than uneasy....


Congrats...you can thank me later. Cocksucker.

[Ignignokt]

At last...I feel insulted, rather than uneasy....


Congrats...you can thank me later. Cocksucker.

I thank you for making Yonivore seem like Bryan Jennings.

If you were insulted, it happened way before this post, like when you said i hate america.

Whott, one needs no effort to insult you. Not liking homoertoic pro wrestling, and not massaging your ego is enough to insult your frail emotionaly defunct self.

[whottt]

I thank you for making Yonivore seem like Bryan Jennings.

If you were insulted, it happened way before this post, like when you said i hate america.

Whott, one needs no effort to insult you. Not liking homoertoic pro wrestling, and not massaging your ego is enough to insult your frail emotionaly defunct self.


Wow...I really scared you off from the homosmack thing huh?

[JoeChalupa]

Homosmack has never bothered me for I am confident in my manhood. I've always thought homosmack is lame though...sorta like the dimm-o-crap smack. But it looks like it works well for whottt. :lol

Now will you both fess up your manlove for one another and move on!!!

[Ignignokt]

Wow...I really scared you off from the homosmack thing huh?


I think it was you who admitted to feeling unease around homosmack. Fag.

btw, i guess i scared you off that rightwing tourette syndrome homo laden smack thing.

[whottt]

I think it was you who admitted to feeling unease around homosmack. Fag.


Oh go suck a terrorist cock.

[Ignignokt]

Oh go suck a terrorist cock.


:lol , whott is easier to irritate than his own labias.

[whottt]

Homosmack has never bothered me for I am confident in my manhood. I've always thought homosmack is lame though...sorta like the dimm-o-crap smack. But it looks like it works well for whottt. :lol


It's funny that the dim-0-crap smack bothers you but not the repug smack...which is much more prevalent on this board....among others.



Now will you both fess up your manlove for one another and move on!!!



You know...I wasn't attempting to insult gtown...just trying to help an obviously lost and tortured soul find himself...because that's the kind of guy that I am. Some people aren't ready for the truth though and I can tell gtown was a little shaken by this entire experience.


At the very least though he seems to be cured of his propensity for posting graphically detailed male on male sex acts...and that can only be a good thing for the board.

[Ignignokt]

It's funny that the dim-0-crap smack bothers you but not the repug smack...which is much more prevalent on this board....among others.





You know...I wasn't attempting to insult gtown...just trying to help an obviously lost and tortured soul find himself...because that's the kind of guy that I am. Some people aren't ready for the truth though and I can tell gtown was a little shaken by this entire experience.


At the very least though he seems to be cured of his propensity for posting graphically detailed male on male sex acts...and that can only be a good thing for the board.


I was just helping WHott realize that using homosmack does not make one gay, graphic or not. By doing this i hope to help whott with his confused sexuality and help him mold him into the downsyndromed drooling pro wrestling enthusiast he really is.

He's like Hacksaw Jim Duggan, exept he gets boners when he sees other men in tight shorts or through casual contact and homo smack and immediately deflects his cock craving impulses towards other people.

I hope for the day one can say "Quit being a douchin fairy eager for the teabagging" without whott drooling on his keyboard and therefore having to deflect his own issues on someone else.

[whottt]

Relapsing a little...but still not as graphic as he was prior to this thread...

[ChumpDumper]

I thank you for making Yonivore seem like Bryan Jennings.The Christian pro surfer?

[JoeChalupa]

It's funny that the dim-0-crap smack bothers you but not the repug smack...which is much more prevalent on this board....among others.

Oh, I don't like lame repug smack either and the only I use it is when the dimm-o-crap card gets pulled by xray. It is lame. I just don't see the sense in it.



You know...I wasn't attempting to insult gtown...just trying to help an obviously lost and tortured soul find himself...because that's the kind of guy that I am. Some people aren't ready for the truth though and I can tell gtown was a little shaken by this entire experience.


At the very least though he seems to be cured of his propensity for posting graphically detailed male on male sex acts...and that can only be a good thing for the board.

I can buy that story.

[Ignignokt]

Relapsing a little...but still not as graphic as he was prior to this thread...

I'm sorry, i didn't learn anything from you, only on what not to do to make foreigners think we all have missing chromosomes and collect Smackdown action figures.

[Ignignokt]

The Christian pro surfer?


Well, that's alot more than whott will ever accomplish.

[Ignignokt]

Oh, I don't like lame repug smack either and the only I use it is when the dimm-o-crap card gets pulled by xray. It is lame. I just don't see the sense in it.



I can buy that story.


How can you not stand the dimmocrap repug smack, but you can tolerate the "You hate america, go suck osama's dick" smack?

[whottt]

How can you not stand the dimmocrap repug smack, but you can tolerate the "You hate america, go suck osama's dick" smack?



:rolleyes


You're mad when you're owned.

[T Park]

Paul is typical of all the candidates.

Some of the things he stands for I'm 100% for.

Alot of his beliefs like thinking that, we as Americans are totally at fault for all the Mid east's problems, or that we need to shut down every single millitary base overseas, boarders on lunacy.


Thats the problem.

The Democrats like Hillary and Obama are complete whack job leftists.

But theres no one to counter.

I don't trust Romney.
I can't stand Giuliani.
Huckabee is a fucking liberal hiding behind being christian thinking that makes him republican.
Thompson is prob the best out of all of em, but I haven't 100% researched so i haven't come to a complete opinion on him.

Theres absolutely NOBODY!! It's disheartening to say the least...

[Ignignokt]

:rolleyes<--dramaqueen


You're mad when you're owned.


I don't have joe chalupa's approval as a barometer of how much of a badass i am.

You can have the e badass award. You could hang it up next to your livestock show awards and your replica wrastlin belts along with your taxidermied possum.

[JoeChalupa]

Paul is typical of all the candidates.

Some of the things he stands for I'm 100% for.

Alot of his beliefs like thinking that, we as Americans are totally at fault for all the Mid east's problems, or that we need to shut down every single millitary base overseas, boarders on lunacy.


Thats the problem.

The Democrats like Hillary and Obama are complete whack job leftists.

But theres no one to counter.

I don't trust Romney.
I can't stand Giuliani.
Huckabee is a fucking liberal hiding behind being christian thinking that makes him republican.
Thompson is prob the best out of all of em, but I haven't 100% researched so i haven't come to a complete opinion on him.

Theres absolutely NOBODY!! It's disheartening to say the least...

Your problem is you seem to see everything or everyone as "left" or "right" and "conservative" or "liberal" when in actuality the majority are some of both. Hillary and Obama are far from being whack job leftists but your mind is closed to their ideas and I can tell that by the posts you make in this and other forums.
I see good and bad in ALL candidates and the "perfect" candidate simply does not exist and never has or will.

Oh, and hope all goes well with your surgery. Are you getting a heart?

[T Park]

Hillary and Obama are far from being whack job leftists but your mind is closed to their ideas and I can tell that by the posts you make in this and other forums.
I see good and bad in ALL candidates and the "perfect" candidate simply does not exist and never has or will.



Obama is a left wing whacko in this sense.

he has had I believe the most liberal voting record in the senate in his time there.

Hillary, first off, her whole 5 gs for every kid born, and national health care BS wich was a rousing success in her first time in the mid 90s when Slick Willy threw the power hungry bitch a bone.


Your problem is you seem to see everything or everyone as "left" or "right" and "conservative" or "liberal" when in actuality the majority are some of both


First off.

I have not heard one thing conservative out of the mouth of Obama nor Clinton.

Second, Thats the majority of my post is my problem with Hucakbee and the rest.


If they were conservatives then they have started to lean liberal to think that buys votes.


I see good and bad in ALL candidates and the "perfect" candidate simply does not exist and never has or will.



Im not looking for perfect.


Im looking for someone I can relate with with at least a majority of my views.

Chill.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

cbf enjoys talking out of his rear end . . . once again . . .

Given that manny is turned off by these discussions, why don't you enrich us all by telling us how your every day life has changed from the Clinton years to the Bush years?

patriot act being passed into existence comes to mind

smeagol beware: replying in a typically predictable fashion to this one may reveal you to be an even bigger dumbass to those posters in this thread still on the fence between us

[Holt's Cat]

Paul is typical of all the candidates.

Some of the things he stands for I'm 100% for.

Alot of his beliefs like thinking that, we as Americans are totally at fault for all the Mid east's problems, or that we need to shut down every single millitary base overseas, boarders on lunacy.

Which ones should remain open?




Thats the problem.

The Democrats like Hillary and Obama are complete whack job leftists.

But theres no one to counter.

I don't trust Romney.
I can't stand Giuliani.
Huckabee is a fucking liberal hiding behind being christian thinking that makes him republican.

Jesus was in many ways a "liberal" (though not the 19th century variety and he'd probably not care about owning a Range Rover and shopping at Williams & Sonoma).

[Holt's Cat]

Also, the terms "liberal" and "conservative" today almost exclusively refer to a candidate's stances on social issues.

[Extra Stout]

Jesus was in many ways a "liberal"
It would have been pretty funny for Liberal Jesus to walk around telling people, "I don't exist; I'm a myth."

[Holt's Cat]

It would have been pretty funny for Liberal Jesus to walk around telling people, "I don't exist; I'm a myth."

Same as Conservative Jesus obsessing over the possibility that one of his disciples might be interested in smoking pole.

[Extra Stout]

Same as Conservative Jesus obsessing over the possibility that one of his disciples might be interested in smoking pole.

Conservative Jesus insists that the Beatitudes were edited by some liberal scholar.

[Holt's Cat]

Conservative Jesus would insist his followers sing "Our God is an Awesome God" as he guides George W. Bush in his conquest of the desert.

[Holt's Cat]

Liberal Jesus would reveal himself through The Guardian and The New York Times' Editorial page.

[boutons_]

Jesus was of course liberal, progressive, revolutionary.

Long article cataloging and critiquing the attacks on RP:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_anthony__071226_agents_of_disinforma.htm

[Holt's Cat]

Conservative Jesus would throw IRS employees out of their offices.

[Holt's Cat]

Liberal Jesus would ask his followers to determine their carbon footprint.

[Holt's Cat]

Conservative Jesus would drill in ANWR.

[Ignignokt]

Jesus was of course liberal, progressive, revolutionary.

Long article cataloging and critiquing the attacks on RP:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_anthony__071226_agents_of_disinforma.htm


why did you crucify him?

[smeagol]

patriot act being passed into existence comes to mind

E-V-E-R-Y * D-A-Y * L-I-F-E.

I'm talking about governments who, from one day to the other, pass a law where they create an asset tax (1% of your assets are now the property of Uncle Gaucho), or a tax checking accounts (every time to transfer money in or out of your checking account, 0.6% goes to Mr Argie IRS).

I'm talking about paying penalties if you consume too much energy in winter because these dumbasses in power forgot to promote investment in the energy sector (same things is happening now in summer).

I'm talking about governments that don't allow you to take your savings out of you bank because the banking system is collapsing. I'm talking about governments who do not honor their debts, i.e. if you held Argie T-bonds, the government screwed you and paid you cents on the $.

I'm talking about governments that allow people who want to protest anything (from fellow workers being fired, to dumpsters being built near their neighborhoods, to greenpiece activists) to cut off streets and highways, and people who are going to work are stuck in their fucking cars for hours.

I'm talking about governments that co-exist with a collapsed and corrupt jusicial system and they do shit about it.

I'm talking about having 7 military governments in 60 years and in those 60 years, only one democratic government finishing its term.

That is what I'm talking when I'm trying to explain to your dumb head what change is. That is how governments affect people's everyday life. The Patriot Act is nothing people cannot adapt to, without major change.

You have managed to take a compliment I made towards the US into something negative.

Fucking moron.



smeagol beware: replying in a typically predictable fashion to this one may reveal you to be an even bigger dumbass to those posters in this thread still on the fence between us

cbf, go fuck off.

I could care less who is on the fence and who is a moron and cannot comprehend what I'm trying to say.

As MB said, you have no idea how good you have it and still you manage to bitch, bitch, bitch.

And yes, I'm a foreigner who worked in the US for 9 years. And I have the right to criticize whatever I feel is worth criticizing of the American political and economic system, it's foreign policy or the American way of life.

I have never said the US should be nuked (the way you said Argentina should, repeatedly on this thread). The most I have criticized the US has been regarding it's foreign policy (which many AMERICANS do too, on a regular basis, on this board), some aspects of its economic policy towards the rest of the world (and I have done so in conjuction with criticism towards Europe and Japan), and some aspects of the American way of life which I find amusing.

So again, moron, come up with policies that have caused real change in your life, or simply shut the fuck up.

[JoeChalupa]

I love the USA. Best Country in the world to live in, IMO. And the beauty of it is we can bitch all we want. I love this place!!!!

As shocking as it may be to others.

[JoeChalupa]

Most policies effect our lives even though we may not realize it. The Patriot Act effects our lives as right as concealed weapon laws, gay marriage laws, etc. To thnk otherwise just doesn't make sense.

[boutons_]

Ron Paul pandering to the black vote:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/26/ron-paul-95-percent-of-black-men-are-criminal/

:lol

[whottt]

Jesus smoked pot.




Addendum: IF boutons is against Ron Paul...I maybe need to reconsider how much I like him as a candidate...wanting to pull us out of Iraq is a huge issue to me...but boutons not liking him may be equally revealing....since boutons hates everyone that loves America.

[JoeChalupa]

Boutons hates me?

[smeagol]

boutons even hates me, and according to cbf, I hate America.

Something is not right . . .

[boutons_]

"boutons hates everyone that loves America."

yawn, just another version of the 1960s "love it or leave it" and "my country, right or wrong". Was pure primitive, chauvinist bullshit back then, is pure primitive, chauvinist bullshit now.

[Spurminator]

Alot of his beliefs like thinking that, we as Americans are totally at fault for all the Mid east's problems,

Link?

[LaMarcus Bryant]

E-V-E-R-Y * D-A-Y * L-I-F-E.

I'm talking about governments who, from one day to the other, pass a law where they create an asset tax (1% of your assets are now the property of Uncle Gaucho), or a tax checking accounts (every time to transfer money in or out of your checking account, 0.6% goes to Mr Argie IRS).

I'm talking about paying penalties if you consume too much energy in winter because these dumbasses in power forgot to promote investment in the energy sector (same things is happening now in summer).

I'm talking about governments that don't allow you to take your savings out of you bank because the banking system is collapsing. I'm talking about governments who do not honor their debts, i.e. if you held Argie T-bonds, the government screwed you and paid you cents on the $.

I'm talking about governments that allow people who want to protest anything (from fellow workers being fired, to dumpsters being built near their neighborhoods, to greenpiece activists) to cut off streets and highways, and people who are going to work are stuck in their fucking cars for hours.

I'm talking about governments that co-exist with a collapsed and corrupt jusicial system and they do shit about it.

I'm talking about having 7 military governments in 60 years and in those 60 years, only one democratic government finishing its term.

That is what I'm talking when I'm trying to explain to your dumb head what change is. That is how governments affect people's everyday life. The Patriot Act is nothing people cannot adapt to, without major change.

You have managed to take a compliment I made towards the US into something negative.

Fucking moron.




cbf, go fuck off.

I could care less who is on the fence and who is a moron and cannot comprehend what I'm trying to say.

As MB said, you have no idea how good you have it and still you manage to bitch, bitch, bitch.

And yes, I'm a foreigner who worked in the US for 9 years. And I have the right to criticize whatever I feel is worth criticizing of the American political and economic system, it's foreign policy or the American way of life.

I have never said the US should be nuked (the way you said Argentina should, repeatedly on this thread). The most I have criticized the US has been regarding it's foreign policy (which many AMERICANS do too, on a regular basis, on this board), some aspects of its economic policy towards the rest of the world (and I have done so in conjuction with criticism towards Europe and Japan), and some aspects of the American way of life which I find amusing.

So again, moron, come up with policies that have caused real change in your life, or simply shut the fuck up.


:lmao

i didn't realize you thought i was so poor i never use cell phones, email, and i guess you assumed i was blogging each day all day from a public library, i didn't realize these things

CR()\/\/NDD

You say you don't give a shit but i bait you into giving a blatantly overworded hegamboaesque response

CR()\/\/NDDDDDDDD I saiddd

[smeagol]

:lmao

i didn't realize you thought i was so poor i never use cell phones, email, and i guess you assumed i was blogging each day all day from a public library, i didn't realize these things

CR()\/\/NDD

You say you don't give a shit but i bait you into giving a blatantly overworded hegamboaesque response

CR()\/\/NDDDDDDDD I saiddd
Not sure there is a cure for your stupidity . . .

You might not be poor, but you are certainly an ignorant motherfucker if you think the Patriot Act is a reason for changing your everyday way life.

Aside from watching it on TV, you have no clue what goes on outside the US.

You think that by throughing out the "I bait you into . . . . " card you can dismiss all that I have said, proves once again your level of stupidity.

I guess I have to wait now for pimpo to call me a fascist or for mookie to state how you bloaded me :rolleyes

[boutons_]

RP, certified doctor with years of science courses, doesn't believe in evolution. It's, horrors, only a theory!

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2007/12/ron_paul_rejects_evolution.php

[Holt's Cat]

RP, certified doctor with years of science courses, doesn't believe in evolution. It's a, horrors, only a theory!

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2007/12/ron_paul_rejects_evolution.php


I'm not sure there's any difference between Paul's views on evolution and faith and the rest of the candidates, D or R. Evolution is, yes, a theory. Much like Einstein's relativity. I think the absolutists on both sides do a disservice to our nation and mankind.

[whottt]

"boutons hates everyone that loves America."

yawn, just another version of the 1960s "love it or leave it" and "my country, right or wrong". Was pure primitive, chauvinist bullshit back then, is pure primitive, chauvinist bullshit now.


And your America is the cause of all the world's problems is even more tedious and lame...not to mention stupid.


As for Chauvinism...you are wholeheartedly aligned with and in support of a male chauviniswm movement that completely enslaves, brutalizes and dominates women to the degree that they aren't even human beings...don't lecture me on chauvinism...

Your head is so far up your fucking ass it's not even funny.

[JoeChalupa]

The more things change the more they stay the same.

[MannyIsGod]

Smeagol you're the only one who sees your stupid comments as a compliment. Gee thanks for pointing out we're not as fucked up as Argentina, I guess I can go back to my Smeagol prescribed apathy!

And I fucking GAVE you everyday life examples and you proceeded to marginalize them because our country isn't as fucked up as yours or because according to you the Iraq situation doesen't affect me as much as forgieners. If this is the way you hand out compliments then I feel badly for your wife.

[smeagol]

Smeagol you're the only one who sees your stupid comments as a compliment. Gee thanks for pointing out we're not as fucked up as Argentina, I guess I can go back to my Smeagol prescribed apathy!

No major change regardless of who wins an election is a compliment, you fucking moron.

It means your economic and political systems are extremely stable. It is a compliment to the stability of your country.

If you don't understand that, then you are as stupid as cbf.

Now go back to ignoring me. It looks like we are both better off.


And I fucking GAVE you everyday life examples and you proceeded to marginalize them because our country isn't as fucked up as yours

So?

Your problem is you don't have perspective.


or because according to you the Iraq situation doesen't affect me as much as forgieners.

Not foreigners, but the people in Iraq. I'm not sure how you can argue that.


If this is the way you hand out compliments then I feel badly for your wife.

Don't. My wife is pretty happy with the compliments she gets from me.

[MannyIsGod]

So when should we care Smeagol? When our country is as fucked up as yours? Thats when we should care about an election?

How can you be this stupid?

[MannyIsGod]

Here's the bottom line Smeagol. You openly advocated apathy which is pretty stupid on its own, but your reasons for it make the statement that much more foolish. You apparently lack the understanding of American History and the standard liberty and personal freedoms are held to in this country.

Whether or not Americans experience change on the scale of other people around the globe with the results of each election is irrelevant. We DO experience change here with each president and while YOU may marginalize things because YOU feel your elections bring about larger changes does not change the fact that WE DO experience change and those changes can effect us greatly.

When CBF brings up the Patriot Act and you dismiss it as something not be concerned about there is no compliment in your statement. There is some kind of stupid feeling that OUR concerns are unimportant in your eyes and therefor not valid. If you had ANY understanding of the feelings Americans have historically had with personal liberties you might have an understanding of why a piece of legislation like the patriot act can be so important here. Its funny that you say I lack perspective because if your initial statement indicates anything is your complete lack of perspective on what principles have made the United States what it is today and why those would be important to Americans.

You tried to undermine every issue I brought up as if you could somehow invalidate my concerns with those issues and how they effected me. Who the fuck are you to tell me what should be important to me, Smeagol?

[smeagol]

So when should we care Smeagol? When our country is as fucked up as yours? Thats when we should care about an election?

How can you be this stupid?

You can care whenever you feel like it, manny.

And rest assured your country will never be as fucked up as mine, not in your lifetime, not in your kids lifetime, regardless of the Patriot Act, regardless of 8 years of Bush.

[Ignignokt]

there sure are a bunch of phony libertarians thinking that the executive branch determinse their financial futures.

[smeagol]

Here's the bottom line Smeagol. You openly advocated apathy which is pretty stupid on its own, but your reasons for it make the statement that much more foolish. You apparently lack the understanding of American History and the standard liberty and personal freedoms are held to in this country.

Whether or not Americans experience change on the scale of other people around the globe with the results of each election is irrelevant. We DO experience change here with each president and while YOU may marginalize things because YOU feel your elections bring about larger changes does not change the fact that WE DO experience change and those changes can effect us greatly.

When CBF brings up the Patriot Act and you dismiss it as something not be concerned about there is no compliment in your statement. There is some kind of stupid feeling that OUR concerns are unimportant in your eyes and therefor not valid. If you had ANY understanding of the feelings Americans have historically had with personal liberties you might have an understanding of why a piece of legislation like the patriot act can be so important here. Its funny that you say I lack perspective because if your initial statement indicates anything is your complete lack of perspective on what principles have made the United States what it is today and why those would be important to Americans.

You tried to undermine every issue I brought up as if you could somehow invalidate my concerns with those issues and how they effected me. Who the fuck are you to tell me what should be important to me, Smeagol?


Here's the bottom line, manny. There are some posters on this board that don't like it one bit when a non American gives an opinion about stuff related to the US or the American way of life.

I get blasted by some idiots who can't stand my opinion on many American-related topics, when my opinion is as valid as yours or anyone else's.

The fact is there are at least two other American posters who have the same opinion as I do about this topic, but you and cbf chose to blast me, not them. I have to conclude that this is the case because I am not an American and in your narrow minds, I'm not entitled to have an opinion on these topics.

Responding to your post quoted above, I know that personal liberties and freedom of speach is something Americans treasure and defend, sometimes with their lives. But I still think that the passing of the Patriot Act does not change the everyday lives of 99.9% of the American population.

I was living in the US when the legislation was passed. I interacted with thousands of Americans after the legislation was passed. I did not see one single example of how that law affected anybody's life.

I can understand that in a long period of time, if the Patriot Act opens the door to another law that intrudes in the private lives of Americans, and that law gives way to another law even more intrusive, that finally does have an effect on the citizens of the US. But I have agreed with this point dozens of posts ago. Changes stemming from government legislation, in the US, take time to materialize.

[MannyIsGod]

I cannot speak for anyone else. I didn't blast you until you went on a posting rampage defending your very stupid original statement. I'm not even sure who else has agreed with you in this thread but I can tell you your posts outnumber them by a 10:1 margin. I don't care if you're from the moon, your assertion is simply completely wrong.

First it was that we shouldn't care because things don't change much. Then it was because we don't change as much as Argentina and we don't know how good we have it. Now we shouldn't care because changes take time to materialize. You're dancing around like a monkey while someone plays a damn tune.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_George_W._Bush_legislation_and_programs

Thats a list of legislation passed and vetoed by Bush and his administration. I could also list the judgments handed down by every Bush appointed federal judge. I could also point you to the amount of debt racked up by Bush in Iraq.

Those are all actions that have effects - and very real affects - on American lives EACH AND EVERY DAY. You may ignore them, you may not notice them, you may not understand them, or you simply may be ignorant of their effects but that does not make their effects any less present and any less real.

If there is a reason you got blasted in this thread, Smeagol, it is because of the incredibly ignorant and blatantly incorrect stance you took and the way you defended it. When a person outside of the United States tells people inside the United States that they should not care about their elections because they don't change their lives while those US citizens are feeling the changes it is obviously going to piss people off. When you further compound it by trying to say you were giving a compliment and continue to dig your hole deeper don't be surprised if people get further annoyed and you get blasted.

Don't make this out to be Americans hating foreigner bullshit. YOU were the one who tried to lecture us on "how good we had it" and tried to tell us what we should concern ourselves with while advocating we just be apathetic about it.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Aside from watching it on TV, you have no clue what goes on outside the US.



I didn't realize señor smeagol possessed omniscience, I mean, here I am, a normal human being, naturally not enough money to travel, and naturally not enough godlike powers to travel everywhere in a very short amount of time. Here I am, trying to argue with you. My bad. I stand owned. BTW, the only things I ever watch on tv are spurs and longhorns games.

[Whisky Dog]

I'd love to be able to temporarily do a "Sliding Doors" type thing where I could sit back and view life as it would currently be if Gore had won the election in 2000 or even Ketchupman in 2004. I don't know if things would be better or worse for me personally, but I'm pretty sure they would be different on a large scale in some very noticeable ways. In that sense, it does stand to reason that the election of the executive leader would have an impact on our society for better or worse. We just don't have any clue which is better and which is worse when we decide.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_George_W._Bush_legislation_and_programs



Give me a fucking break manny, how would a free trade agreement with Jordan affect my tvnews watching every day life?



On a serious note, smeagol's mayweather-esque evasion and dancing around on this subject has to be considered classic material. I mean really. Who gives a flying fuck what the common argnetinian thinks about our country? I don't. But, to reiterate, its when a foreigner displays the scum of the earth trait of pompousness as a result of waltzing into this country, taking advantage of its opportunities, then speaking completely out of his or her ass--that i do care about. Because he's a chief, numero uno reason I'm an isolationist. Not because I don't think foreigners deserve an opinion to criticize my country, but smeagol is fitting the stereotypical bill of a foreigner who talks shit and talks shit, hypocritically makes his life energy off of an entity he sees as wrong, waltzes back to his precious homeland, then proceeds to talk shit to which he is incapable of providing a logical basis for.

Its madness. Imagine someone twice as stupid as me reading smeagols posts, or even worse, talking in person to someone who sees the world like smeagol.

If you imagine this happening, you then can understand from where modern day American bigotry towards other nations arises.

I may be juvenile, talk shit, whatever, but when someone nails me, logically and based on facts, I back down, eat crow, and give prahps where they are due. Smeagol is a run of the mill POS, who not only is giving Argentinians a bad name on this board, but probably gave them a bad name while he was here making his bread.

Make no bones about it. If argentina is full of smeagols it deserves to be nuked on principle alone.

[Kori Ellis]

Has Fox News Excluded Ron Paul?
December 28, 2007 10:39 pm EST

ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA – According to the New Hampshire State Republican Party and an Associated Press report, Republican presidential candidate and Texas Congressman Ron Paul will be excluded from an upcoming forum of Republican candidates to be broadcast by Fox News on January 6, 2008.

“Given Ron Paul’s support in New Hampshire and his recent historic fundraising success, it is outrageous that Dr. Paul would be excluded,” said Ron Paul 2008 campaign chairman Kent Snyder. “Dr. Paul has consistently polled higher in New Hampshire than some of the other candidates who have been invited.”

Snyder continued, “Paul supporters should know that we are continuing to make inquiries with Fox News as to why they have apparently excluded Dr. Paul from this event.”


http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/94/has-fox-news-excluded-ron-paul

[mikejones99]

Fuck him he has as much chance as Jamal tinsley does of winning the MVP.

[SouthernFried]

At least he's not running as a 3rd Party candidate, ala Ross Perot.

Ron Paul cannot garner broad appeal. And that folks, is half of what being the President is all about. Lament it all you want.

Until libertarians learn how to do that, they are irrelevant also. I would be libertarian, if I had any beleif that they knew how to get votes. You can be idealistic all you want...you can even be right. But, if you can't get people to follow you, who cares?

"I do!!!"

Whaaateevaaah, now go outside and play.

[whottt]

At least he's not running as a 3rd Party candidate, ala Ross Perot.

Ron Paul cannot garner broad appeal. And that folks, is half of what being the President is all about. Lament it all you want.

Until libertarians learn how to do that, they are irrelevant also. I would be libertarian, if I had any beleif that they knew how to get votes. You can be idealistic all you want...you can even be right. But, if you can't get people to follow you, who cares?

"I do!!!"

Whaaateevaaah, now go outside and play.

I've been saying that for years...


I don't really have much problem with Libertarians...except that they basically choose to be irrelevant.


Although I just wonder why a guy doesn't become affiliated and known through one of the major 2 parties, perhaps via a Presidential Bid and then go indendent...I think a successful Presidential Bid could possibly be pulled off in that case.....I think that's their best chance. Lots of "best candidate voters" and the Libertarians tend to have platforms that would appeal to voters in both parties.


Only 2 major parties...historically it's kept both parties pretty moderate...although that's beginning to change now.

[Holt's Cat]

Has Fox News Excluded Ron Paul?
December 28, 2007 10:39 pm EST

ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA – According to the New Hampshire State Republican Party and an Associated Press report, Republican presidential candidate and Texas Congressman Ron Paul will be excluded from an upcoming forum of Republican candidates to be broadcast by Fox News on January 6, 2008.

“Given Ron Paul’s support in New Hampshire and his recent historic fundraising success, it is outrageous that Dr. Paul would be excluded,” said Ron Paul 2008 campaign chairman Kent Snyder. “Dr. Paul has consistently polled higher in New Hampshire than some of the other candidates who have been invited.”

Snyder continued, “Paul supporters should know that we are continuing to make inquiries with Fox News as to why they have apparently excluded Dr. Paul from this event.”


http://www.ronpaul2008.com/press-releases/94/has-fox-news-excluded-ron-paul


No surprise. He went too far off script.

[smeagol]

I cannot speak for anyone else. I didn't blast you until you went on a posting rampage defending your very stupid original statement. I'm not even sure who else has agreed with you in this thread but I can tell you your posts outnumber them by a 10:1 margin. I don't care if you're from the moon, your assertion is simply completely wrong.

First it was that we shouldn't care because things don't change much. Then it was because we don't change as much as Argentina and we don't know how good we have it. Now we shouldn't care because changes take time to materialize. You're dancing around like a monkey while someone plays a damn tune.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_George_W._Bush_legislation_and_programs

Thats a list of legislation passed and vetoed by Bush and his administration. I could also list the judgments handed down by every Bush appointed federal judge. I could also point you to the amount of debt racked up by Bush in Iraq.

Those are all actions that have effects - and very real affects - on American lives EACH AND EVERY DAY. You may ignore them, you may not notice them, you may not understand them, or you simply may be ignorant of their effects but that does not make their effects any less present and any less real.

If there is a reason you got blasted in this thread, Smeagol, it is because of the incredibly ignorant and blatantly incorrect stance you took and the way you defended it. When a person outside of the United States tells people inside the United States that they should not care about their elections because they don't change their lives while those US citizens are feeling the changes it is obviously going to piss people off. When you further compound it by trying to say you were giving a compliment and continue to dig your hole deeper don't be surprised if people get further annoyed and you get blasted.

Don't make this out to be Americans hating foreigner bullshit. YOU were the one who tried to lecture us on "how good we had it" and tried to tell us what we should concern ourselves with while advocating we just be apathetic about it.

You win Manny.

If either Mondale, Dukakis, Dole, Gore or Kerry had won the election, Americans everyday life would be very different.

[smeagol]

I didn't realize señor smeagol possessed omniscience


Lot's of things you don't know about me.

In this case, it looks like I was right.



I mean, here I am, a normal human being, naturally not enough money to travel,


Norman human beings in the US have enough money to travel. You don't seem to be normal at all.



and naturally not enough godlike powers to travel everywhere in a very short amount of time.


What does this even mean?



BTW, the only things I ever watch on tv are spurs and longhorns games.


It shows in the level of ignorance of your posts.

[smeagol]

Give me a fucking break manny, how would a free trade agreement with Jordan affect my tvnews watching every day life?

Or one with Peru, or one with Chile . . .



On a serious note, smeagol's mayweather-esque evasion and dancing around on this subject has to be considered classic material.

It should. Considering you are also the all powerfull one who decides what is and what is not classic.



I mean really. Who gives a flying fuck what the common argnetinian thinks about our country?


Here comes the bigotry once again.



I don't.


Wether you like it or not, I'm not the common Argentinean. I have lived enough time in the US to opine on many aspects of your country. I have a green card and it is a matter of time until I become a citizen.

And that must kill you inside, asshole. :lol



But, to reiterate, its when a foreigner displays the scum of the earth trait of pompousness as a result of waltzing into this country, taking advantage of its opportunities,


:lol :lol :lol

Again, you know shit about me and my life, and you talk out of you arse once again.

I was hired by an AMERICAN bank, which transfered me from Argentina to the US because they could not find Americans who could do my job as well as I did it.

I did not take advantage of anybody. The bank (Chase Manhattan Bank) made a lot of money out of me. And they paid me a market salary in return. And I paid taxes like anybody who lives in America. Lots of taxes.

So shut the fuck up, for once in your sorry life.



Because he's a chief, numero uno reason I'm an isolationist.


You are an isolasionist? Another reason why cbf is a scumbag. The box is checked.



Not because I don't think foreigners deserve an opinion to criticize my country


Oh yes you do, dirtbag, yes you do.



but smeagol is fitting the stereotypical bill of a foreigner who talks shit and talks shit,


Very soon I will no longer be a foreigner, scumbag.



hypocritically makes his life energy off of an entity he sees as wrong,


Again, link to where I criticize the US unfairly. And if you are of the opinion that saying that no major changes occur to Americana is Bush jr, Bush sr, or Clinton rule, is a criticism, then you are an idiot.




Imagine someone twice as stupid as me


Hard to imagine.




If you imagine this happening, you then can understand from where modern day American bigotry towards other nations arises.


I can understand very well where bigotry towards other nations arises. From scumbag islasionsts such as you.



I may be juvenile, talk shit, whatever, but when someone nails me, logically and based on facts, I back down, eat crow, and give prahps where they are due.


Same here. And manny knows it. He actually gave me props when I admitted I was wrong.

I have never seen you admit you were wrong on anything, bigot.



Smeagol is a run of the mill POS, who not only is giving Argentinians a bad name on this board, but probably gave them a bad name while he was here making his bread.


Go fuck off. You have insulted my country 10 times more than I have yours.

Seriously, you are a lowlife. A true disgrace to Americans.



Make no bones about it. If argentina is full of smeagols it deserves to be nuked on principle alone.


There you go again. Try and find a post of mine where I say anything as remotely insulting as this, towards America or Americans. I have said insulting things about posters such as yourself, because they deserve to be insulted.

[boutons_]

NewsCORP interferes in the election against Paul:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/politics/primarysource/2007/12/paul_fox_news_i.html


Only the news that fits Rupert's agenda.

[MannyIsGod]

There you go Joe. Thats why we think your beloved debates are a fucking joke.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Smeagol i've admitted i've been wrong a bunch of times, to extra stout, manny, chumpdumper, even Yonivore when he was The Resurrected One. You're like an argentina spurs forum poster who only pays attention to posts about manu.

[Ignignokt]

i didn't take smecal's statement as offensive. I don't think he was talking down america either.

[smeagol]

Smeagol i've admitted i've been wrong a bunch of times, to extra stout, manny, chumpdumper, even Yonivore when he was The Resurrected One. You're like an argentina spurs forum poster who only pays attention to posts about manu.

That is why half of my posts are in the political forum.

Good job, but try harder the next time.

[smeagol]

i didn't take smecal's statement as offensive. I don't think he was talking down america either.

Thanks gtown

[Ignignokt]

I wonder if Lamarcus Bryant gets mad at illegals for protesting against America and criticizing our govt.

But, then doing so would make me more of a mexican than the CBF pharmacy.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Making fun of you using brown dye to turn your skin brown after being born into this world a neocon naturally implied you turned yourself into an american of mexican descent. You're not a foreigner and I've never considered your takes to be baseless like smeagols.

I get mad at both sides when they base their views on no reality and overall I am against immigration so there.

[smeagol]

You're not a foreigner and I've never considered your takes to be baseless like smeagols.

Cause if you say they are baseless, there is no way around it, knowing that you are the authority on all topics discussed on this board.


I get mad at both sides when they base their views on no reality and overall I am against immigration so there.

No need to emphasize it. We all know you are a disgusting bigot.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Sorry señor smeagol! You stay in your country, and I'll stay in mine, and we'll both be happy.

[BradLohaus]

NewsCORP interferes in the election against Paul:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/politics/primarysource/2007/12/paul_fox_news_i.html


Only the news that fits Rupert's agenda.

I second Paul on this statement:

"They are scared of me and don't want my message to get out, but it will," Paul said in an interview at a diner here. "They are propagandists for this war and I challenge them on the notion that they are conservative."

Whatever Fox News is, it isn't conservative.

[smeagol]

Sorry señor smeagol! You stay in your country, and I'll stay in mine, and we'll both be happy.

I can't. My country has been nuked by yours, Mr cbf (afer you advocated it). I have nowhere to go. I guess I will become a citizen of your country now.

Cheers.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

touché señor smegmal!

[Holt's Cat]

I second Paul on this statement:

"They are scared of me and don't want my message to get out, but it will," Paul said in an interview at a diner here. "They are propagandists for this war and I challenge them on the notion that they are conservative."

Whatever Fox News is, it isn't conservative.


I'm just glad we have campaign finance laws that prevent large commercial interests from having an undue influence in our politics.

Anyways, we can't have anyone with a divergent view at a presidential debate. That is neither the time nor place.

[mookie2001]

i didn't realize you thought i was so poor i never use cell phones, email, and i guess you assumed i was blogging each day all day from a public library, i didn't realize these things

CR()\/\/NDD

You say you don't give a shit but i bait you into giving a blatantly overworded hegamboaesque response

CR()\/\/NDDDDDDDD I saiddd

ROFLROFL


Again, you know shit about me and my life, and you talk out of you arse once again.

I was hired by an AMERICAN bank, which transfered me from Argentina to the US because they could not find Americans who could do my job as well as I did it.I did not take advantage of anybody. The bank (Chase Manhattan Bank) made a lot of money out of me. And they paid me a market salary in return. And I paid taxes like anybody who lives in America. Lots of taxes.

So shut the fuck up, for once in your sorry life.

ohh the bank was American??


smeagol you recently said it was Americas responsibility to globalize the earth

[smeagol]

ROFLROFL

I was expecting you to find that cbf piece of internets art funny




ohh the bank was American??


smeagol you recently said it was Americas responsibility to globalize the earth

So?

How is that related to Chase Manhattan Bank (aka JPMorgan Chase) doing business in Argentina and hiring me?

[Galileo]

I haven't been following the polls very closely. The short snippets I read seem to indicate Paul has no chance. But it seems like everywhere I go I see some sort of Ron Paul related pimpage. Whether it be bumper stickers, signs, flyers, business cards and my favorite - some peeps dressed up as the founding fathers chanting "Ron Paul Two Thousand Eight, Make This Country Great".

Gotta love his libertarian values but before I donate I'd like to know if there is at least a snowball's chance.

Ron Paul has a great chance to win. If the polls were not rigged, he would be leading in the polls right now. He's already leading in money raised, has the best organization, and has the srongest message.

To get a good idea how rigged the polls are, please check this out:

A Rigged Poll Deconstructed
www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/lindgren2.html

[RandomGuy]

I haven't been following the polls very closely. The short snippets I read seem to indicate Paul has no chance. But it seems like everywhere I go I see some sort of Ron Paul related pimpage. Whether it be bumper stickers, signs, flyers, business cards and my favorite - some peeps dressed up as the founding fathers chanting "Ron Paul Two Thousand Eight, Make This Country Great".

Gotta love his libertarian values but before I donate I'd like to know if there is at least a snowball's chance.

Turns out, you should have saved your money. Since he is running again... Bump.

[cheguevara]

he's the only one that has a chance.

[DarkReign]

he's the only one that has a chance.

I dont agree.

I think Romney and Perry have a chance to beat Obama in November 2012.

I know Bachmann is a fucking joke.

I know Paul will not win the Rep nomination based solely on his position with the use of America's military.

Lets pretend Paul did win the Rep nomination (not going to happen), I sincerely doubt he beats Obama in November.

I hope he would, he would have my vote, but I tend to agree with a lot of the coverage that says he is much too...out of step with your typical American voter. A candidate like Ron Paul would probably win a future Presidential election, but not this one, not today.

Shit just isnt bad enough yet for Americans to really take stock in the political process.

[cheguevara]

oh yeah forgot about Romney. all these GOP candidates have huge blatant flaws. and it's not even election yet.

agree on whoever said this rep primaries are must see tv. It's like that show Survivor

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I know Paul will not win the Rep nomination based solely on his position with the use of America's military.
huh? Paul's stance with the military is the reason why he's actually in the race now.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Romney and Paul have a fairly good shot at beating Obama.

Rick Perry is the flavor of the week. Once more info about him comes out he'll fade into oblivion.

[cheguevara]

I think so. and it's funny when idiots say "he's never lost a race". he's ran what, 3 races?

[DarkReign]

huh? Paul's stance with the military is the reason why he's actually in the race now.

...with the support of an extremely low percentage of the population that just-so-happens to be very politically active.

You have to think "Can Paul win the general election?"

I, personally, hope that the answer is yes.

But my brain knows the answer.

[Blake]

Ron Paul has a great chance to win. If the polls were not rigged, he would be leading in the polls right now. He's already leading in money raised, has the best organization, and has the srongest message.

To get a good idea how rigged the polls are, please check this out:

A Rigged Poll Deconstructed
www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/lindgren2.html

Rofl

[mingus]

i really like what i see with Ron Paul. i think he's spot on in his views on abortion and military policy. i would probably vote for him.

i don't trust Romney. he's a known flip-flopper, and i was reading his wiki page the other day that i didn't like: the dude helped stage a protest against a group of an anti-war protesters at his school in like '69. that same year he takes off to France for like 2 years in the guise of Morman missionary work. my ass. i understand a lot of people did whatever they could to dodge the the draft, but to organize a demonstration against anti-war protesters and then dodge the draft is very lame.

i guess we'll be finding out more about perry in the coming months. don't have much of an opinion on him yet.

[DarkReign]

that's what the media keeps feeding you so that people like you don't feel compelled to go out and vote, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. don't listen to their propoganda and just go vote.

Cosmored?

Dont pretend to know anything about my media habits. Paul would never win a general election, certainly not against Obama.

That isnt media talking, thats me.

[DMC]

Ron Paul will never win. It's not because his ideas are so fruity, but because he would have a 4 year lame duck Presidency. He could never get any of his wild notions to pass.

[4>0rings]

Total bullshit. Ron Paul owns all other candidates at the debates, and got the loudest cheers and standing ovations at the televised Iowa debate. I see Ron Paul support everywhere I go, whether it be signs on bridge overpasses on the highway or supporters rallying on corner of some of the busiest intersections and random places around here. Ron Paul has support all over the place, and can definitely win because so many like me are pissed off and fed up. Ron Paul is the only real candidate, the only one since JFK to be exact. Every other president since JFK has been a globalist puppet, and I don't know about you guys but I'm fucking sick of it.
You should get all your accountant thug niggas together and harrass and force people to vote for Ron Paul at the primary's like the Black Panther Party does.

[DMC]

Total bullshit. Ron Paul owns all other candidates at the debates, and got the loudest cheers and standing ovations at the televised Iowa debate. I see Ron Paul support everywhere I go, whether it be signs on bridge overpasses on the highway or supporters rallying on corner of some of the busiest intersections and random places around here. Ron Paul has support all over the place, and can definitely win because so many like me are pissed off and fed up. Ron Paul is the only real candidate, the only one since JFK to be exact. Every other president since JFK has been a globalist puppet, and I don't know about you guys but I'm fucking sick of it.

I like some of Ron's ideas, but neither side of the isle will ever support his uncommon ideals, mostly because it will cost them money as individuals. They are all banking from some pork barrel rider bill they tacked on for their district, or some "you scratch my back" agreement. Ron Paul's platform is too aggressive, too unrealistic.

He's had staunch supporters for years, and every election you see them on message boards but most voters don't get onto the forum, and many don't get onto the internet. No one knows who Ron Paul is, and his biggest detractor, by far (sucks I know) is the fact he doesn't have a nice head of hair.

[4>0rings]

dude EVERYONE knows who ron paul is, it is't 2008 anymore, if you actually watched the iowa debate he got the most support and cheers hands down.
This isn't the first time he has had all the cheers, even the past repub. debates he's had the most cheers and people behind him in the studio.

I disagree though that he can't pass his own legislation in a divided congress/senate. If he's selected as the republican candidate and he's elected, the repub's will fall inline and back their candidate. No dem or repub is going to let their leader hang.

[Wild Cobra]

dude EVERYONE knows who ron paul is, it is't 2008 anymore, if you actually watched the iowa debate he got the most support and cheers hands down.
I think he could pull it off this time. Still, I wouldn't bet on it either.

[DMC]

dude EVERYONE knows who ron paul is, it is't 2008 anymore, if you actually watched the iowa debate he got the most support and cheers hands down.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78861

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I will vote for him but what we really need is a DeLorean so we can kidnap Paul from 1985

[boutons_deux]

Ron Paul On Hurricane Irene: Response Should Be Like It Was In 1900

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Galveston_hurricane_1900-e1314390016267.jpg

“We should be like 1900, we should be like 1940 1950 1960,” he said. “I live on the gulf coast, we deal with hurricanes all the time.” Of course, the Gulf Coast deals sometimes deals with them less welle thanks to a botched national response. Paul, who has called for abolishing FEMA, dismissed the organization to Kent because it is “a great contribution to deficit financing.”


http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/08/26/305849/ron-paul-hurricane-irene-1900/

How many Federal $100Ms did TX receive for Ike, etc? I'm sure Paul's constituents would love their district to be wiped clean like Ike on High Island and left on their own to rebuil it.

[DMC]

dude EVERYONE knows who ron paul is, it is't 2008 anymore, if you actually watched the iowa debate he got the most support and cheers hands down.
People who follow politics know who Ron Paul is. The average voter has no fucking idea what Ron Paul stands for, because Ron Paul doesn't have a generic platform like the biparty system that always wins.

The overwhelming majority of voters are ignorant as fuck. Ron Paul does not appeal to that demographic any more than Ralph Nader did. Hell, Ross Perot had a better chance before he wigged out and quit.

[DMX7]

Fox News would throw a fit if he won.

[DMC]

Ron Paul On Hurricane Irene: Response Should Be Like It Was In 1900

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Galveston_hurricane_1900-e1314390016267.jpg

“We should be like 1900, we should be like 1940 1950 1960,” he said. “I live on the gulf coast, we deal with hurricanes all the time.” Of course, the Gulf Coast deals sometimes deals with them less welle thanks to a botched national response. Paul, who has called for abolishing FEMA, dismissed the organization to Kent because it is “a great contribution to deficit financing.”


http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/08/26/305849/ron-paul-hurricane-irene-1900/

How many Federal $100Ms did TX receive for Ike, etc? I'm sure Paul's constituents would love their district to be wiped clean like Ike on High Island and left on their own to rebuil it.

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

It's not sudoku.

[DMC]

Fox News would throw a fit if he won.
Doesn't matter. Too many people follow party lines and rhetoric like it's a college football rivalry. Most have no idea what's going on. They sit around and talk about femer, and wonder what they are and why they needed so many trailer houses.