NBA.com: Yao, Shaq Continue to Lead All-Star Balloting

[whottt]

Yao, Shaq Continue to Lead All-Star Balloting (http://www.nba.com/news/allstar_041230.html)

NEW YORK, Dec. 30 -- Yao Ming of the Houston Rockets and Kevin Garnett of the Minnesota Timberwolves lead all players in the Western Conference and Shaquille O’Neal of the Miami Heat and Vince Carter of the New Jersey Nets lead all players in the Eastern Conference in votes received after the second returns of the 2005 NBA All-Star Balloting program.

Through the 2005 All-Star Balloting program, NBA fans from around the globe are responsible for voting in the starters for the 54th NBA All-Star Game, which will be played in Denver on Sunday, February 20. The game will be broadcast live on TNT, Rogers Sportsnet, ESPN Radio and audio in several languages on NBA.com (http://nba.com) at 8 p.m. (EST).

TOP 10 VOTE-GETTERS


Yao
Yao Ming (Hou.) 1,373,458
S. O'Neal (Mia) 1,311,762
K. Garnett (Min.), 1,142,804
T. McGrady (Hou) 1,065,230
Kobe Bryant (LAL) 1,005,050
Vince Carter (N.J.) 938,817
Tim Duncan (S.A.), 886,547
Grant Hill (Orl.) 848,061
LeBron James (Cle.) 843,363
Allen Iverson (Phi) 825,179


Yao leads all players with 1,373,458 votes. He is followed at the center position in the Western Conference by Sacramento’s Brad Miller (197,784). Garnett, the 2003-04 NBA Most Valuable Player, is third in overall votes received and leads all Western Conference forwards with 1,142,804 votes, followed by San Antonio’s Tim Duncan (886,547). Houston’s Tracy McGrady (1,065,230) and Los Angeles Lakers’ Kobe Bryant (1,005,050) lead all Western Conference guards and round out the top five vote-getters.

O’Neal leads all Eastern Conference players with 1,311,762 votes, followed at the center position by Detroit’s Ben Wallace (399,698). Carter (938,817) and Orlando’s Grant Hill (848,061) lead all Eastern Conference forwards. Cleveland’s LeBron James leads all Eastern Conference guards (843,363), trailed closely by Philadelphia’s Allen Iverson (825,179).

Through the 2005 NBA All-Star Balloting program, which began on November 18, fans have the opportunity to vote in more ways than ever. The balloting program has expanded to include 19 languages on the NBA.com Network, downloadable ballots via Verizon Wireless and approximately 150 Loews Cineplex Entertainment movie theaters in the United States. This year, Twentieth Century Fox joined Sprite, America Online, Reebok and approximately 2,100 Foot Locker and Champs Sports stores in the United States and Canada as All-Star balloting partners. Ballots are also distributed in all 29 NBA arenas and all six NBDL arenas.

NBA All-Star 2005 is a week-long celebration that enables fans to experience the thrill of the world’s greatest athletes playing the game they love and features a full slate of community enhancing activities and fan festivals.

The 2005 NBA All-Star Balloting program continues through January 23, 2005, and updated results for the Eastern and Western Conferences will be issued regularly leading up to the unveiling of the All-Star starters on Thursday, February 3. Following the completion of fan voting and starting line-up announcement, the head coaches in each conference will vote to determine the remaining All-Stars in their respective conferences.

The leaders of both the Eastern and Western Conference players for the second returns of the 2005 NBA All-Star voting program are attached:

2005 NBA ALL-STAR BALLOTING
EAST FORWARDS


Carter
Vince Carter (N.J.) 938,817
Grant Hill (Orl.) 848,061
Jermaine O’Neal (Ind.) 688,302
Rasheed Wallace (Det.) 494,719
Antawn Jamison (Was.) 204,226
Richard Jefferson (N.J.) 201,418
Emeka Okafor (Cha.) 164,457
Tayshaun Prince (Det.) 156,502
Dwight Howard (Orl.) 100,390
Drew Gooden (Cle.) 77,652

EAST GUARDS


James
LeBron James (Cle.) 843,363
Allen Iverson (Phi.) 825,179
Dwyane Wade (Mia.) 608,760
Steve Francis (Orl.) 570,099
Jason Kidd (N.J.) 306,359
Stephon Marbury (N.Y.) 151,749
Chauncey Billups (Det.) 148,066
Richard Hamilton (Det.) 138,336
Paul Pierce (Bos.) 124,623
Reggie Miller (Ind.) 81,066

EAST CENTERS


O'Neal
Shaquille O'Neal (Mia.) 1,311,762
Ben Wallace (Det.) 399,698
Alonzo Mourning (N.J.) 119,449
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Cle.) 115,545
Chris Bosh (Tor.) 92,296
Eddy Curry (Chi.) 41,220
Tony Battie (Orl.) 37,384
Jeff Foster (Ind.) 33,732
Samuel Dalembert (Phi.) 29,972
Primoz Brezec (Cha.) 27,619


WEST FORWARDS


Garnett
Kevin Garnett (Min.) 1,142,804
Tim Duncan (S.A.) 886,547
Dirk Nowitzki (Dal.) 482,220
Carmelo Anthony (Den.) 336,913
Amaré Stoudemire (Pho.) 282,345
Peja Stojakovic (Sac.) 170,458
Chris Webber (Sac.) 162,361
Andrei Kirilenko (Utah) 141,723
Pau Gasol (Mem.) 125,114
Kenyon Martin (Den.) 120,721


WEST GUARDS


McGrady
Tracy McGrady (Hou.) 1,065,230
Kobe Bryant (LAL) 1,005,050
Steve Nash (Pho.) 540,147
Ray Allen (Sea.) 476,857
Emanuel Ginobili (S.A.) 257,418
Mike Bibby (Sac.) 183,084
Tony Parker (S.A.) 133,774
Michael Finley (Dal.) 132,188
Jason Terry (Dal.) 83,357
Baron Davis (N.O.) 74,147


WEST CENTERS


Yao
Yao Ming (Hou.) 1,373,458
Brad Miller (Sac.) 197,784
Erick Dampier (Dal.) 147,310
Marcus Camby (Den.) 146,910
Vlade Divac (LAL) 95,913
Rasho Nesterovic (S.A.) 68,543
Dikembe Mutombo (Hou.) 64,867
Jamaal Magloire (N.O.) 57,259
Theo Ratliff (Por.) 56,665
Brian Grant (LAL) 42,050

[adidas11]

Expected.

[sbsquared]

Must be all those Chinese people voting - cause Yao's not having that great a year!

[Sec24Row7]

It's regoddamneddiculous that Yao even MAKES the all star team.

Most overrated player in NBA HISTORY.

I HATE is soft pussy assed game.

[Sec24Row7]

And what the hell has Vince Carter done in the last 3 years?

God... people are stupid.

[boutons]

And Manu needs some get-out-the-vote effort among the 100's of millions of Spanish speakers. Maybe if he'd get more Latino recognition if he soccer-kicked a shot from mid-court to beat the buzzer? Or maybe head in an alley-oop? I bet even LeBron couldn't match that. :)

[whottt]

In addition to Yao...the stupid thing this year is having TMac and Kobe as our starting guards...

Just great, we got two ball hogs, that miss 60% of their shots, while chucking up more bricks than just about any other players in the NBA, who can barely hit a three, and who are getting bitchslapped by every team with a winning record, as our starting guards...

Allen and Nash should be starting...Manu and Parker should be backing them up...TMac should be in the lobby apoligizing for Yao being the Starting C and Kobe should be cleaning Shaq's jock in the EC lockerroom.

[sbsquared]

All-Star balloting should be changed - somebody with more intelligence and sense about players should vote. Maybe it should be the sports media - like they do for MVP. Or maybe College coaches, since they're used to evaluating young talent.

But letting the public vote has become a farce!

[whottt]

Actually Allen shouldn't be starting either...he already got a gift last season when he made the team without being able to stay on the court or win a game.

[adidas11]

The All Star team is about stats, not winning records.

[whottt]

It's obviously not about stats either.

[MarkyMark]

T-Mac can barely hit a three huh?

[whottt]

32.6%?

Don't confuse bad coaching by Pop with TMac being able to hit a 3 consistently.

[mysterious_elf26]

It's regoddamneddiculous that Yao even MAKES the all star team.

Most overrated player in NBA HISTORY.

I HATE is soft pussy assed game.


And who the hell do you think should start as center for the west??? Yao ranks pretty high in a bunch of categories and I hope he leaves Houston for a team that actually learns how to use him. Francis and Mobely had trouble finding him wide open despite his 7 ft 7 figure and then they get McGrady? It just doesn't make sense. Most overrated player?? I think not. Check his stats before you start running your mouth. For a player that has suppposedly going to be their franchise player, but is always stuck with a bunch of ball hogs, he's doing pretty damn good.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What's crazy is that there's not a similar Yaoesque get out the vote in the Latin American population, particularly south America.

Not even having to go that far south though, here in S. Texas and down in Mexico, dude should be getting votes left and right.

[SLOVENIAN 8]

Yao--> Only becouse Chinese people

[Phenomanul]

And Manu needs some get-out-the-vote effort among the 100's of millions of Spanish speakers. Maybe if he'd get more Latino recognition if he soccer-kicked a shot from mid-court to beat the buzzer? Or maybe head in an alley-oop? I bet even LeBron couldn't match that. :)


Both things I've done before.... very difficult... and somewhat painful... because a basketball weighs twice as much as a regulation soccer ball... and because it doesn't compress near as much -- meaning the head absorbs more of the shock...

[Phenomanul]

They need to pro-rate (perhaps they already do) foreign votes...

[Disharmony]

It's regoddamneddiculous that Yao even MAKES the all star team.

Most overrated player in NBA HISTORY.

I HATE is soft pussy assed game.

It's amazing, for a 7'5" guy on his 3rd year, still lowering the ball down to his waist and has the strength to post up smaller defenders, but would rather take an off-balanced fadeaway from 15.

[totalspurshomer]

Western Conference leaders:

G--TMac
G--Kobe
F--Garnett
F--Duncan
C--Yao

Put it in stone. Might as well get used to that line-up because that will be the West starters for the next few years. Ain't nobody cracking that list unless Lebron moves West and challenges at guard. The kicker is TMac has been playing more and more as a SF. So if he ever gets listed on the ballot at F, then that moves Tim down to coming off the bench.

The NBA never pretends that it's anything other than a popularity contest. They even promote it that way("vote for your FAVORITE player"). So I don't get why every year people end up saying, "so and so doesn't DESERVE to start over so and so", etc. The system works EXACTLY the way it's designed and EXACTLY the way fans understand when they vote...our FAVORITE players start. And the coaches then fill out the roster. Why get upset and say the fans are stupid, screwing up, etc? :wtf

And one last rant :lol ...here we go again with the "Yao only gets in because of the Asian/Chinese internet vote". Every year that same old FABLE gets thrown around and every year it gets shot down by silly little things like FACTS. The last two years Yao beat Shaq, not only in internet voting, but in PAPER BALLOTS(U.S. only), too. In other words, unless NBA arenas are filled mostly with Asians(in every city), Yao is winning the non-Asian vote, too. Imagine that...non-Asian Americans liking and voting for a guy even though he's not an American! What is this country coming to?!? :rolleyes :lol

[Tek_XX]

Who exactly in the west should start instead of Yao. Not saying he's having a great year but someone has to start.

[Disharmony]

Brad Miller.

[Kori Ellis]

They should have listed Amare as center and then he should start.

[T Park]

^^^^ Agreed

[Slomo]

They need to pro-rate (perhaps they already do) foreign votes...
If they did that you'd have a starting five all-star consisting of:
Beno
Rasho
Brezec
Nachbar
Vujacic

:lol

[johnny00]

The All Star team is about stats, not winning records.
??????????????????????????????

Dude The All-Star team is a popularity contest plain and simple.

[Frenchise player]

The All-Star game should be between american and international players, it will be more fun to watch, the international team would be:
Steve Nash
Manu Ginobili
Andrei Kirilenko
Dirk Nowitzki
Yao Ming

bench: Parker, Stojakovic, Gasol, Ilgauskas, Arroyo, Magloire and Turkoglu

[boutons]

I think USA vs World All-Star game would be very credible from this point, and a lot of fun.

The rivalry would be real, very much like Davis and Ryder Cups, and the game played seriously to win, rather than to showboat and screw off.

Other ideas for NBA all-star games:

Gays vs Straights (bi's and trannies allotted by drawing straws)

Muslims vs Infidels

Evangelicals vs Hell-bound

Muslims vs Jews

WC Muslims vs EC Muslims

red-state vs blue-state

[ALVAREZ6]

Come on guys keep voting.
Manu still has a chance, even if he doesn't pass Allen, i hope the coaches recognize him, which is why i still want him to start.

I hope either kobe,tmac,allen,or nash get injured...

[Extra Stout]

Come on guys keep voting.
Manu still has a chance, even if he doesn't pass Allen, i hope the coaches recognize him, which is why i still want him to start.

I hope either kobe,tmac,allen,or nash get injured...
No, no, no, no, no. Allen and Nash are good people who don't deserve to get hurt. TMac suffers enough as is under JVG. Take all of that ill will and lump it all against Kobe. He can't suffer enough.

[ALVAREZ6]

The All-Star game should be between american and international players, it will be more fun to watch, the international team would be:
Steve Nash
Manu Ginobili
Andrei Kirilenko
Dirk Nowitzki
Yao Ming

bench: Parker, Stojakovic, Gasol, Ilgauskas, Arroyo, Magloire and Turkoglu
That would be a sick team.
:smokin :hat :drunk
They should do that, but the NBA doesn't want to humiliate any more Americans like they did in Athens. :lol

[boutons]

This "USA vs World" game doesn't have to replace the current All-Star format, but be an additional game somewhere/time. I think the NBA should be a 12 month/year season anyway. :) Jul - Oct really sucks.

[Frenchise player]

This "USA vs World" game doesn't have to replace the current All-Star format, but be an additional game somewhere/time. I think the NBA should be a 12 month/year season anyway. :) Jul - Oct really sucks.
And what about Olympic games?
Do you think that our Argentinians friends will agree to give up international competitions for some more regular season games?

[whottt]

A USA VS the World AS Game would be most unOlympic like for our international friends and they would recieve an ass kicking of epic proportions...

No years of practicing together...

Duncan, Shaq and Garnett as your front line?

Trust me, you international guys don't want any part of that game.

Not even Manu will be able to prevent an ass kicking in that game.

[ALVAREZ6]

A USA VS the World AS Game would be most unOlympic like for our international friends and they would recieve an ass kicking of epic proportions...

No years of practicing together...

Duncan, Shaq and Garnett as your front line?

Trust me, you international guys don't want any part of that game.

Not even Manu will be able to prevent an ass kicking in that game.
Remember, Duncan is international, he just plays for the USA team.

[whottt]

That's like saying someone born in Washington DC is international...

Have it your way, Duncan won't make the difference either.

[Phenomanul]

If they did that you'd have a starting five all-star consisting of:
Beno
Rasho
Brezec
Nachbar
Vujacic

:lol


What I meant by pro-rating, was that an American vote count as a full 1... whereas a chinese vote would be worth 1/5th........

[whottt]

Top 10 in PPG in the NBA:

POINTS
PPG
1. A. Iverson PHI 28.9
2. K. Bryant LAL 28.4
3. D. Nowitzki DAL 26.3
4. A. Stoudemire PHO 25.6
5. L. James CLE 24.4
6. R. Allen SEA 24.0
7. D. Wade MIA 23.9
8. T. McGrady HOU 23.3
9. R. Jefferson NJN 23.2
10. K. Garnett MIN 22.9

9 out of 10 are American.

Rebounders:

REBOUNDS
RPG
1. K. Garnett MIN 14.6
2. T. Duncan SAS 12.0
3. E. Okafor CHA 11.8
4. S. Marion PHO 11.2
5. L. Odom LAL 10.7
6. S. O'Neal MIA 10.7
7. Z. Randolph POR 10.6
8. T. Murphy GSW 10.5
9. D. Gooden CLE 10.2
10. D. Nowitzki DAL 10.1

Even giving you Duncan, who is a US citizen and was born in a US territory(like Washington DC) by the way..

8 out of 10 are American.

Assists 9 out 10 are American.

Blocks 8 out of 10

Steals 7 out of 10

FG% 8 out of 10

FT% 9 out of 10

And so on and so forth...

This would be in a game with no national program, no international rules.


Just

Bring

It


Embarrass us...

[Sense]

That's like saying someone born in Washington DC is international...

Have it your way, Duncan won't make the difference either.

Duncan makes all the difference, Duncan is a leader, and unlike Garnett and Shaq.

Duncan was the reason they won Gold Medals, when he was on the team.

And you better believe that.

[whottt]

Duncan was the reason they won Gold Medals, when he was on the team.

And you better believe that.

Who? Argentina?

[Sense]

Top 10 in PPG in the NBA:

POINTS
PPG
1. A. Iverson PHI 28.9
2. K. Bryant LAL 28.4
3. D. Nowitzki DAL 26.3
4. A. Stoudemire PHO 25.6
5. L. James CLE 24.4
6. R. Allen SEA 24.0
7. D. Wade MIA 23.9
8. T. McGrady HOU 23.3
9. R. Jefferson NJN 23.2
10. K. Garnett MIN 22.9

9 out of 10 are American.

Rebounders:[code]
REBOUNDS
RPG
1. K. Garnett MIN 14.6
2. T. Duncan SAS 12.0
3. E. Okafor CHA 11.8
4. S. Marion PHO 11.2
...............................



The league is all about American basketball. Expect more ego coming from the American's than from the Foreign players. They appreciate just getting what they are getting, unlike Kobe, and T-Mac. They don't care, plus the Americans have been raised to play the game and live near it all their lives. Foreign players do amazing things on the court that could really break the American team. The league is American, so it's obvious that americans feel at home, while others don't.

There's many points to this topic, that I don't even want to reach, because this is just plain stupid coming from you.

I'd say about 80% of the ppg leaders have either a bad record, or barely clinging.

Rebounding is nothing.

They could get embarrased.

[Sense]

Who? Argentina?


It was obvious that Tim Duncan wasn't gonna win with Iverson as team leaders.

Lmao, I don't even think he talked all the time he was there.

And Manu did deserve the Gold medal, you can't say shit about Tim Duncan's loss in the Olympics when "your" boyz where too much of pussies to step up and play.

Garnett, Shaq....all scared....


So what in the world makes you think that they would step up again?

[whottt]

The league is all about American basketball. Expect more ego coming from the American's than from the Foreign players. They appreciate just getting what they are getting, unlike Kobe, and T-Mac. They don't care, plus the Americans have been raised to play the game and live near it all their lives. Foreign players do amazing things on the court that could really break the American team. The league is American, so it's obvious that americans feel at home, while others don't.

No, I expect more ego coming from the damn feriners...like the one who just talked shit and said he would embarrass us.




There's many points to this topic, that I don't even want to reach, because this is just plain stupid coming from you.

Actually, you're a fucking idiot.

In case you missed it Shaq has kicked Duncan's ass in the post season more than the other way around.


I'd say about 80% of the ppg leaders have either a bad record, or barely clinging.


And I'd say you're full of shit. Excuses are like aholes.


Rebounding is nothing.

They could get embarrased.

And I'd say your an idiot on top of it.

Rebounding is nothing.

STFU assclown.

[whottt]

It was obvious that Tim Duncan wasn't gonna win with Iverson as team leaders.

Lmao, I don't even think he talked all the time he was there.

And Manu did deserve the Gold medal, you can't say shit about Tim Duncan's loss in the Olympics when "your" boyz where too much of pussies to step up and play.

Garnett, Shaq....all scared....


So what in the world makes you think that they would step up again?


I've never once denied Argentina deserved to win the Gold and it was an important win.


But this would be a whole different ball game.

This wouldn't be a national team that has been playing together for 6 years...

It wouldn't be international rules being called by replacement refs.

It'd be talent on talent using our rules...and the US would destroy.

It's just the facts. Not arrogance.

[Sense]

No, I expect more ego coming from the damn feriners...like the one who just talked shit and said he would embarrass us.





Actually, you're a fucking idiot.

In case you missed it Shaq has kicked Duncan's ass in the post season more than the other way around.




And I'd say you're full of shit. Excuses are like aholes.



And I'd say your an idiot on top of it.

Rebounding is nothing.

STFU assclown.





Ok, all that post didn't make sense at all, that just proved I was right, and it also proved your an immature idiot without the knowledge or consent of this game.

TY. I win...now shut it because you can't make yourself look worse.

[ALVAREZ6]

It'd be talent on talent using our rules...and the US would destroy.

It's just the facts. Not arrogance.

Still pissed off about the bronze?

Even with international rules, how didn't the USA team win? They completely sucked. People say that the refs sucked, blah blah blah, KGShaq, Kobe, Tmac didnt play blah blah blah.

Is Duncan, AI, Lebron, Melo, Wade, Amare, Marbury, Marion not enough??

Shaq would have passed out with all that running in those games, did you watch the game China vs. Spain?

Yao had trouble keeping up, which is why he didn't even go in the paint for foul shot rebounds, he wanted to stay back.

If Yao wasn'y in shape enough, Shaq would have died. :smokin

[whottt]

Rebounding is nothing.
.

:lol

Just stay down man.

If I had my brain surgically removed I could not be more stupid than you were when you made that statement.

Rebounding is nothing...lol.

[Sense]

I have to disagree that Yao is good.

Yao is indeed the worst Center in the NBA.

He is also the most overrated... and I do think that the Chinese people are getting lots of votes... you know there are too many hackers over there ;)

Yao sucks, and will always...have you seen how the Rockets are trying to change his image?


From innocent school boy to hardcore murder threat.

It's stupid, starting with his beard... they trying to change his image because of T-Mac.


Stupid ballhoggers getting their WAY!

[Sense]

:lol

Just stay down man.

If I had my brain surgically removed I could not be more stupid than you were when you made that statement.

Rebounding is nothing...lol.\


Rebounding is nothing when you got foreign players shooting like there is no tomorrow, from the arc.

Something the US couldnt do....ever.


Think about it, and after that, think about it some more...

Spurs got raped because sonics kept shooting.

[ALVAREZ6]

\


Spurs got raped because sonics kept shooting.

Off of Offensive boards.

[whottt]

Still pissed off about the bronze?

Was never pissed off about in the first place. I saw it coming...and I'm glad Manu and the Argentinians won if the US couldn't.

You talked some serious shit...and you are wrong. And you are the one being arrogant about this, not I.




Even with international rules, how didn't the USA team win? They completely sucked. People say that the refs sucked, blah blah blah, KGShaq, Kobe, Tmac didnt play blah blah blah.

They lost because Argentina was the better team, knew the international game better, and was the more experienced team.

None of which would apply in an exhibition All Star Game.

Team Argentina would have a better chance than an international All Star Team.

Actually team Lithuania would have a better chance as well.




Is Duncan, AI, Lebron, Melo, Wade, Amare, Marbury, Marion not enough??

Enough to beat the best national team in the world?

No. It wasn't.

Enough to beat a team of NBA international All Stars?

Way more than enough.


Shaq would have passed out with all that running in those games, did you watch the game China vs. Spain?

Yeah like Shaq passed out in the playoffs last season right?


Yao had trouble keeping up, which is why he didn't even go in the paint for foul shot rebounds, he wanted to stay back.

I don't get your point...Yao would be the center on your international team...he'd also have to go and see a dentist after the game to get the basketballs removed from his teeth.


If Yao wasn'y in shape enough, Shaq would have died. :smokin

Just give it up Alvarez...

You national team has a right to be proud...but you are in for a rude awakening if you think this type of All Star Game would be the same situation or get the same results.

It wouldn't. You guys would be the recipient of a severe ass kicking.

Fuck you guys would only have like 4 players that could play D on the entire team.

[whottt]

\


Rebounding is nothing when you got foreign players shooting like there is no tomorrow, from the arc.

Something the US couldnt do....ever.


Think about it, and after that, think about it some more...

Spurs got raped because sonics kept shooting.


Yeah? And who was the guy doing most of the raping...Ray Allen..what team would he be playing for?

Tell you what...again, go look how many Americans rate in the league leaders in 3 point PCT compared to international players...

Ditto FG%

Ditto assists...

I lose respect for your knowledge of the game based on the arguments you are making.

Seriously, they are very bad, and show a huge lack of understanding of the game on your part...

You do not have a single statistical fact to back up anything you have said...you have only your ass.


Don't kill the messenger.

[Sense]

Yeah? And who was the guy doing most of the raping...Ray Allen..what team would he be playing for?

Tell you what...again, go look how many Americans rate in the league leaders in 3 point PCT compared to international players...

Ditto FG%

Ditto assists...

I lose respect for your knowledge of the game based on the arguments you are making.

Seriously, they are very bad, and show a huge lack of understanding of the game on your part...

You do not have a single statistical fact to back up anything you have said...you have only your ass.


Don't kill the messenger.




Allen is on a TEAM....consisting of international players aswell.. and stop talking shit idiot, you don't even know what your talking about, your mocking my words. You can't even insult anymore, whenever you get to the point that you repeat my insults, that's when you know you lost and you should stfu.

[whottt]

Allen is on a TEAM....consisting of international players aswell.. and stop talking shit idiot, you don't even know what your talking about, your mocking my words. You can't even insult anymore, whenever you get to the point that you repeat my insults, that's when you know you lost and you should stfu.


No shit Allen is on a team...isn't that the case with most players?

Consisting of international players as well?

3 international players are on that team.

How many were on the Lakers or Piston's last season?

How many were on the Spurs when they won their last title?




SO le tme get this straight...

Rebounds don't matter.
PPG doesn't matter.
FG% doesn't matter.
Assists don't matter.
Blocked shots don't matter.
Steals don't matter.
FT% doesn't matter.
3 point PCT doesn't matter.
Winning 3 consecutive NBA titles doesn't matter.
Having 4 or 5 MVP's on the same team doesn't matter.



Got it...you won.

[whottt]

Allen is on a TEAM....consisting of international players aswell.. and stop talking shit idiot, you don't even know what your talking about, your mocking my words. You can't even insult anymore, whenever you get to the point that you repeat my insults, that's when you know you lost and you should stfu.


2nd Seattle Game:



SEATTLE SUPERSONICS
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Rashard Lewis, SF 44 6-11 1-4 3-4 1 4 5 0 2 2 5 3 16
Reggie Evans, PF 14 4-4 0-0 0-0 2 3 5 0 0 0 0 3 8
Jerome James, C 19 0-2 0-0 0-0 0 3 3 0 1 3 1 5 0
Ray Allen, SG 43 9-19 5-9 6-6 0 4 4 3 1 0 4 2 29
Luke Ridnour, PG 27 2-8 0-2 4-4 1 1 2 2 0 0 1 2 8
BENCH MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Vladimir Radmanovic, PF 24 2-7 1-4 0-0 1 6 7 1 0 1 0 5 5
Antonio Daniels, PG 34 4-6 2-3 4-7 0 3 3 4 2 0 1 2 14
Danny Fortson, FC 21 2-3 0-0 10-10 1 5 6 0 1 0 3 6 14
Nick Collison, PF 14 4-10 0-0 0-0 2 1 3 0 0 0 0 1 8
Mateen Cleaves, PG DNP COACH'S DECISION
Damien Wilkins, SF DNP COACH'S DECISION
Robert Swift, C DNP COACH'S DECISION
TOTALS FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
33-70 9-22 27-31 8 30 38 10 7 6 15 29 102
47.1% 40.9% 87.1% Team TO (pts off): 17 (20)

1st Seattle Game



SEATTLE SUPERSONICS
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Reggie Evans, PF 24 5-7 0-0 0-0 2 0 2 0 2 0 0 2 10
Rashard Lewis, SF 42 9-17 0-4 9-9 2 3 5 1 1 0 4 2 27
Jerome James, C 25 0-2 0-0 4-6 0 3 3 0 0 4 2 6 4
Ray Allen, SG 39 10-20 4-4 0-0 2 4 6 1 2 0 0 1 24
Luke Ridnour, PG 22 1-4 0-0 0-0 1 2 3 6 2 1 3 2 2
BENCH MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Vladimir Radmanovic, PF 27 6-11 1-3 2-2 0 3 3 1 2 1 2 2 15
Nick Collison, PF 11 1-3 0-0 0-0 0 1 1 2 0 0 0 4 2
Danny Fortson, FC 21 3-8 0-0 9-10 7 6 13 0 0 0 1 5 15
Antonio Daniels, PG 26 4-5 1-2 5-6 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 1 14
Damien Wilkins, SF 1 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Mateen Cleaves, PG 1 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Robert Swift, C 1 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
TOTALS FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
39-77 6-13 29-33 14 22 36 15 9 6 12 25 113
50.6% 46.2% 87.9% Team TO (pts off): 12 (4)



Flagrant Fouls: None
Technicals: 1 SEATTLE ( D Fortson 1 )
Officials: David Jones , Gary Zielinski , Joe Crawford
Attendance: 15,851
Time: 02:16


By my reckoning there was exactly 1 international player getting minutes in those games....and he wasn't exactly the reason they won either game.

Consists of international players my ass.

Who the fuck is stupid?

Who in the fuck doesn't know what they are talking about...Mr.Rebounds don't matter?

And you guys say Americans are arrogant.

You deserve the all time bitch slapping from hell, into the fucking dirt, you would get were this game to be played.

At least we had 50 years of dominance backing up our percieved arrogance.

[whottt]

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/allpolitics/0312/turkeys.year.2003/1.baghdad.bob.jpg
Reounds, points, steals, blocks, assists, none of it matters. It does not matter that 90% of the statistical leaders in the NBA are Americans, they could not beat a team consisting of only Dirk Nowtizki. We would crush the arrogant Americans. And no I am not jealous, I speak only the truth. Talk to my ass and it will tell you the facts. I won, I won, I won!

[polandprzem]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[pepito51]

ok, i just enter now....(i liked the last image... really!!)
right now best international team are argentina, lithuania, spain.... and after usa is there.... american lost in indianapolis and in athens.. and were close to loose in sydney.... cause they are not teached to play as a team and are arrogant.. how stupid looked vince carter or garnett in sydney?? they were what people dont like in america: arogance...... men, basket ball is an american game and right now dont have the best team and of course you have the best players playing in nba.... money, money..... but you CANT say anymore that american are better in basket ball...

during a match, if you put together the ten best scorer, you should finish with a score like 200 pts.. right?? so, yes there would be a nice match if european plays against american players.... and as the two teams NEVER played together.... how can you know that they will fit..... did you forget that basketball was a collectiv sport... not just an addition of individuality??

[spursfaninla]

This thread is barely readable, mostly because the smack is not that fresh.

Non-sense, stop the madness.

Talking smack is one thing, but the way you argue, it is like you detest the posters here. Enjoy the community, disagree, bring the biting takes, but learn to lighten up ALITTLE please.

Plus, just every time nonsense has tried to make an arguement, the little problem of "facts" come up, and he gets, well, thrashed.

Examples of horrid Non-sense conclusions made in this thread:

1)Assertion: Top 10 scorers are 80% on bad teams, or just barely clinging (his way of trying to weenie out if need be)
2)Fact: Garnett, Wade, L. James, R. Allen, Nowitzki, Stoudamire, K. Bryant, winning and all in playoffs%, Mcgrady 50% and 8th seed, AI 8th seed east. ONLY ONE NOT IN PLAYOFFS IS R. JEFFERSON.

2.Assertion) Duncan made the difference when they won the gold medals.
Fact: Duncan has yet to get a gold, though he was the best player on the team last year by far. Conflation in non-sense's mind reins.

3. Contradictory arguement)The league is American, so it's obvious that americans feel at home, while others don't. (Appologist explanation for why Americans get better stats. However, they are comfortable enough to do amazing things, your next sentence...)
Contradicts: Foreign players do amazing things on the court that could really break the American team. (Comfortable enough to do amazing things, but not comfortable enough to get stats? ).

Next Assertion:
And Manu did deserve the Gold medal, you can't say shit about Tim Duncan's loss in the Olympics when "your" boyz where too much of pussies to step up and play.

Garnett, Shaq....all scared....

Fact: Garnett and Shaq were real scared last time they won gold medals, huh? How many gold medals does a guy need? I understand they are the best, and should have gone, but they have a right to have lives of their own too. I do think the reason the US lost came down to 1) Not having enough shooters on the court, 2) Not enough time together to mesh.

Contradictory position:
Ok, all that post didn't make sense at all, that just proved I was right,

Conflicts with:
and it also proved your an immature idiot without the knowledge or consent of this game.

You see, you are engaged in a silly yelling fest with Whott, while calling him an immature idiot for being a part of it.



I think this is enough to skim the surface of this madness. Put the keyboard down, bro.

[whottt]

??

Pepitol, we beat Spain and Lithuania(in the Bronze round).

And by the way...I'd say the Spanish make us look like rookies when it comes to arrogance...


But let's say that what you said about America no longer producing the best players was true...it isn't, but let's go ahead and say it...

This game would still be played using American rules...and as you can see, by the fact that 90% of the league leaders are Americans, we are still the best at playing American Ball.


You acting like a team of international players could duplicate the excellent team work by the Argentinians is a huge disservice to team Argentina...we wouldn't be playing team Argentina...and we wouldn't be playing by the same rules....and that team would have no more experience playing together than a team of American All Stars would...

No experince, playing our rules with us having a lot more players that excell at that type of ball, including the league leaders... that equals an asskicking of epic proportions.

So it would be big ugly individualized American basketball and we would kick some international ass...there's a reason 90% of the statistical league leaders in the NBA are American.


And the simple fact is America is still the basketball Superpower, I could go into detail about why it is true....but let's just say this is the league that nearly every player in the world wants to play in...and it's still got about 7-1 ratio of Americans to international players, and there are probably more Americans playing over in Europe than there are players from any other country...if an international player excells he winds up in the NBA 99% of the time...the best international players in the World play here...the Americans still dominate the stat categories and the PCT of players produced in this league.

[pepito51]

And the simple fact is America is still the basketball Superpower, I could go into detail about why it is true....but let's just say this is the league that nearly every player in the world wants to play in...and it's still got about 7-1 ratio of Americans to international players, and there are probably more Americans playing over in Europe than there are players from any other country...if an international player excells he winds up in the NBA 99% of the time...the best international players in the World play here...the Americans still dominate the stat categories and the PCT of players produced in this league.

you 're right about this... how can you attrack player with 10% of the salary that an average nba player could reach?? money, money, european championship makes less money but now some of the best players here are not attrackt anymore... players like rigaudeau, bodirga, foirest, jacikavicius, would play well in nba.... but they prefer to stay here... american dream doesnt exist always...

but, i never said that nba was not the best league.... it is, of course.... but why then, usa team doesnt impress anymore.... you certainly have the most athletic roster but i was bored most of the time i watched usa... american players most of the times tend to be more attrack by money or they prefer to make a nice dunk in order to be on the top10.... im not right about this?? they just forget it was a collectiv game, they are not used anymore to play like that.... now young player prefer to train to do cross over or 360°dunk... and suddenly when they play against a team where each player is 20cm lower and weight 20 kg less ( sorry, i dont know how to count in pound and feet)...they screw, they sometime looked so boring and uncreative...

[pepito51]

other thing.... i play basketball since a long time.... all this polemics about fiba rules and nba rules..... it's not stupid neither?? duncan said suddenly referees were whisteling him too many time...... whott........ you know like me that player in nba hve status... referee take decision comparing the statu, duncan can make fault that a rookie can't.....are you ok with this??.... me, i don't like it so much but it's like that.... but when he plays international and dont get the same privilege.... he complains... tim duncan was the most inteligent player and the one who had the most respectful behaviour in athens.... but complaining about international rules instead of trying to adapt is non sense either.... people dont play the same intensity in greece that in spain.... but they do adapt for international rules..... 3points line is much longer in nba.. why american guard dont score more, even power foward should shoot 10 times per match...

usa still produce the best players but since 5 years the rest of the world just realized is was not so difficult to do the same. Spanish and italian league ( and even greek league with all their rich owners) always attracked great eastern european players and produced great national players..you sadly will neither see play players like digbeu ( who could have win the dunk contest 3 times), rigaudeau, reyes, garbajosa, marconato.... . but nba scouts were not interested at this time..so imagine in 5 years how many will play in nba??... one more point... nba scout keep doing the same mistakes.... why did they select ljampe, milicic or try to recruit young player when they ignore top players??...


this is an article that i found on the fiba website... you know d'antoni right??

"It was pretty evident that it kept growing," D'Antoni said . "I'd been over there 20 years and you could see it coming. There's no reason not to. A lot of NBA coaches went over there. There's film, and satellite television was probably the biggest thing. The coaches and the players over there kept getting better. It was pretty obvious that it should happen."

These guys can play. In each of the last two years, six of the 24 players in the All-Star Game hailed from outside the US. Come February, the number could be even greater.

Or take a look at the statistics. Dirk Nowitzki, a German, is third in scoring and eighth in rebounding. Steve Nash, a Canadian, leads the NBA in assists. Peja Stojakovic, a Serb, is the top free-throw shooter.

It is no accident that the Spurs, Phoenix Suns and Seattle SuperSonics - the teams with the top three records as we approach the new year - have a combined 14 internationals on their rosters.

"I think it (international influx) will keep growing for a while and then it will plateau," D'Antoni said. "Then it will be a battle back and forth. But it's good for basketball."

If the international influence has caught you by surprise, that's okay. You probably were too busy watching American players flail with fundamentals, question coaches or storm into the stands.

But it's high time that fans stop living in the past and recognise that the game has gone global and is not going back.

It is not 1992 anymore, with Larry Bird posing for photos with Cubans, Charles Barkley elbowing Angolans and Chuck Daly calling for tee times during timeouts.

There is no shock and awe. The rest of the world can play with the USA, and it knows it.

On the global stage, the US no longer owns the spotlight. And if American players do not recognise that, it won't be long before the international game takes over the NBA as well.

.... another thing.... i think basket ball has been created in england right??...

[whottt]

you 're right about this... how can you attrack player with 10% of the salary that an average nba player could reach?? money, money, european championship makes less money but now some of the best players here are not attrackt anymore... players like rigaudeau, bodirga, foirest, jacikavicius, would play well in nba.... but they prefer to stay here... american dream doesnt exist always...

Good for them...god knows we don't force anyone to come here and make millions. Seems like kind of a silly thing to be angry about if you ask me.


but, i never said that nba was not the best league.... it is, of course.... but why then, usa team doesnt impress anymore.... you certainly have the most athletic roster but i was bored most of the time i watched usa... american players most of the times tend to be more attrack by money or they prefer to make a nice dunk in order to be on the top10.... im not right about this??


Simply put this version of team USA wasn't put together very well, there was no pass first point guard! No shooters...this is not to say that there were no shooters available, just that they were not on this team.

I think most open minded people would agree that was not the best team we could have sent...not only in terms of star power, but in terms of role players and fitting pieces.

This team was not good enough to beat the Argentinians and many of us saw it coming from a long way off...but I don't see why that gives the rest of the world room to crow...was Argentina that kept us from the gold medal...not the international world.

As for why it would be different in the case of an America VS The World All Star Game...

The rules were a factor, I mean how often do you see Duncan in foul trouble in the NBA?

And it would be NBA refs reffing the game.

As for what is boring and what isn't...I like shooting, but I like dunks also, I like defense as well...I like it all. I do agree that the jump shot has been on the decline in the USA, but it is a mistake to say there are no Americans that can shoot...check out how many of hte league leaders in 3 point shooting are American...it's just unfortunate none of them were on the Olympic team.

Year in and year out, the league leader in 3 point shooting is an American most of the time...and our 3 line is further than it is in the international game.





they just forget it was a collectiv game, they are not used anymore to play like that....

That's really not true...they tried to play team ball, even Marbury and AI...they tried to go through Tim Duncan, unfortunately he didn't adapt to the international game very well...





now young player prefer to train to do cross over or 360°dunk... and suddenly when they play against a team where each player is 20cm lower and weight 20 kg less ( sorry, i dont know how to count in pound and feet)...they screw, they sometime looked so boring and uncreative...

To each their own, I like dunks, I like team play, I like shooting...but I also like defense, which is gimmicked in the international game, and I like athleticism. I like all the aspects of the game. Any time it becomes one dimensional it is boring.




The point remains, boring and selfish or not...it would be American rules in this case, and American rules favor Americans...and the international All Stars wouldn't have years of experience playing together that the Americans don't....unlike what happened in the Olympics.



Just out of curisosity...if you hate the NBA and American basketball so much...

Why do you watch it?

Let me guess...one of your favorite players did come here for the money?

Sorry, don't know what to tell you, maybe you should be mad at him.

[ShoogarBear]

If we want to talk about a boring and stupid game, let's talk FIFA. Now there's a game that needs some rule changes.

[Sense]

You know, I could go all day arguing with you, but the truth is I'm too lazy to start to post the truth, or to even start to read what you posted.

To tell you the truth, I don't think anyone read it, so I think you got fucked getting those stats without a respond.

I'm laughing because I know I'm right, and the NBA knows I'm right, as long as I know what's up, no idiot's changing my mind.

I argue, but I'm looking at your posts, and you post too much bs. Bs, that only smartasses post, and if I start the arguement, your ass will never shut up.

so I guess, why argue, when you won't admit your an idiot?

Stfu, seriously, you never shut your ass.

[smeagol]

Who the Fuck is this asshole who calls himself "Sense"?

The reason you can't argue with whottt is because you are too dumb to understand his posts. You can't follow them, sparky.

If your best argument is the BS you just spewed, please STFU. Many posters have argued vehemently their POV with whottt and nobody has come up with shit as weak as you have.


but the truth is I'm too lazy to start to post the truth
Not only you appear to be lazy, but you are also full of shit.

Bring an intelligent take or STFU.

[adidas11]

This entire argument by Sense is pitiful. Whott has destroyed his argument utterly.

I find it absolutely hilarious that someone can attempt to point to how Team USA has done in the past two international competitions, to determine the state of the level of basketball in the NBA.

I'll chime in to help out, for those of you who lack common basketball sense:

The way our Team USA is formatted, and how we approach international competitions is the reason why we have performed poorly. It's NOT the desire of the players (they all honestly do their best to play good, unselfish basketball). But the reality is that other countries have improved dramatically in basketball. The days of us rolling out a disorganized All Star team and dominating the competition is over. The talent gap between our Team USA and the other teams is still huge, mind you. But the other countries are now at least effective enough to punish us if we play poorly.

And we will continue to play poorly, unless changes are made (and I doubt they will be made). But make no mistake, Argentina didn't beat us because they were more talented, or because they were more unselfish. They beat us because they had a lot more time to play together, they had an established style of basketball cultivated over the last 5 or 6 years, and they had defined roles. Our Team USA had none of that.

Switch the scenarios, with Argentina being the team that only got together weeks before the Olympics, and Team USA having years to establish a style of play, and Team USA would have beat them by 50 points. Guaranteed.