SUNS are F-U-C-K-E-D

[BillsCarnage]

The reality for this years Suns and their fans is that the Suns' margin for error is practically nill. The Suns will struggle to win 50-55 games.

Their defense is the worst its been since the return of Nash and the rebounding is even worse. I touted last year as the year for the Suns. They had the ego, the chip on their shoulder, the salary cap, etc. Everything was aligning for them, but things happened and they didn't win.

They have a serious lack of intensity and effort, chemistry issues and a coach that will be gone after the season anything short of a title. The Suns don't have the ability to "flip the switch", the west is tougher than ever; and the teams that have gotten better are playing up tempo as well as playing some D.

Not to mention the Suns are the second oldest team, or one of the top five, isn't it?

The franchise has continually traded away draft picks and always offered Marion in trades.

I've been a supporter of D'Ant, but he has yet to evolve as a coach and i suspect this will be his last year as coach if they don't win a title - they can't just out score everyone anymore. To be a great team you must, MUST have success against your division and conference.

Boris, obviously, is overpaid, but Sarver couldn't afford another JoJo fiasco. That being said, Boris needs to be starter as does Barbosa. But where? Bell has struggled this year and after Skinner there is no bench.

D'Ant's "big" signing as GM was Banks, yet he treats him like shit now. I really wish D'Ant would start:

C - Skinner
PF - Amare
SF - Marion
SG - Barbosa
PG - Nash

The bench would be Diaw, Hill, Bell, Banks, Marks.

Having "7 or 8 starters" has really become an achillies heal for the Suns - more so than ever.

Planet Orange glasses wearing fans probably won't like this, but it's the reality of the 07/08 Suns as we wallow through another unfulfilled season.

Bookmark this and check back in April.

[Hemotivo]

Bookmark this and check back in April.
Ok

[lefty]

Starting Barbosa is not a good idea; the Suns bench is already poor to begin with, so they need Leandro as a 6th man; moreover, they need Bell's defense from the tip off.


They just need a better bench; I was thinking Marion on the bench, and move Diaw to the starting lineup.

Hill is better than Marion in my opinion, and Diaw seems to be more comfortable as a starter than as a substitute. Plus, putting Marion on the bench would be a wake-up call for him.

They also need a good backup for Nash, other than Barbosa; Van Gundy said yesterday that Leandro is better as a small SG than as a PG, and I agree with him.

Also, they should have worked harder to keep Joe Johnson; he was their most versatile player.

[SpursDynasty]

Well, we shouldn't be too hard on the Suns.

No one has ever expected them to win a championship and they've never been the favorite to win a championship.

They are just losing to teams they're supposed to lose to.

[Xylus]

I agree with everything BillsCarnage just said. I hit the panic button after that disgusting game against the Lakers yesterday.

[Dex]

As a Spurs fan, I don't have the same impending sense of doom from neither Phoenix nor Dallas this year.

Do I think it be an easy series were the playoffs to start tomorrow? No.

But they just don't seem to have the same swagger that carried them in recent years past.

[ehz33satx]

Two humble Suns fans in one thread. Unreal.

[Dex]

Two humble Suns fans in one thread. Unreal.

http://www.littlepigs.biz/images/pigs_flying.jpg

[picnroll]

Hill really screwed up siging on with the Suns. He's supposed to be smart, didn't he realize the Suns and their piss poor approach will never win a title.

[JamStone]

"That's fine. We got two more match-ups this season," Adolph D'Antoni.

[BeerIsGood!]

Hill really screwed up siging on with the Suns. He's supposed to be smart, didn't he realize the Suns and their piss poor approach will never win a title.

Hill did the best thing for himself. In Phoenix he will get many touches and doesn't have to worry about getting jumped on for not playing defense. He gets to run and gun the way he likes to and doesn't have to worry about riding the bench as a 1st year player that doesn't get the system yet. It's the right place for him.

[ajh18]

Hill is better than Marion in my opinion, and Diaw seems to be more comfortable as a starter than as a substitute. Plus, putting Marion on the bench would be a wake-up call for him.


I can't see Marion ever being willing to come off the bench. This is a guy who has expressed anger over being seen as the "third wheel" and said that he thinks he could/should be "the man" on a team. His ego wouldn't allow him to come off the bench

[lefty]

I can't see Marion ever being willing to come off the bench. This is a guy who has expressed anger over being seen as the "third wheel" and said that he thinks he could/should be "the man" on a team. His ego wouldn't allow him to come off the bench

Well, in that case, they must trade him

[Purple & Gold]

SUNS are F-U-C-K-E-D

:santahat

[JMarkJohns]

I'll have to agree, but I've been ringing this bell of warning since Thomas was given away for a tidy pocketing of cash. In July I mentioned posted that I believed the Suns should still win the Pacific, but that it wouldn't be by a lot. I posted that they'd struggle to a finish of 54-to-58 wins. I liked both the Hill and Skinner signings, but felt the Suns offseason really screwed them in the immediate and longterm.

I few weeks ago I argued to a few Spurs fans that they shouldn't write off the Suns just because they hadn't played anyone out West, but should rather wait until after Christmas. Well, it's now time to note the two wins (skidding Utah, parker-less San Antonio) vs. three losses (Dallas, Hornets and Lakers).

Right now the Suns shooting isn't at the point where they can simply out-shoot its opponant to make up for its weaknesses any longer. It struggles on the boards nightly, struggles to make the promt defensive rotations often, gives up too much size in the paint, doesn't go deep enough and this is despite playing only seven to eight players for roughly 30-to-40 minutes a night.

There's been no player development, which scares me when injuries strike. There's been very little attempt to address its size issues by either playing Skinner more, which would be smart regardless since he's not an issue on offense, or by acquiring a legit 7-footer. Nash is playing way too many minutes way too often and Hill, despite proving he is and will still be a player both for this and future seasons, is fastly wearing out, I fear. Amare doesn't look the same. Not even close. And while he's improved his shot blocking, it's come at the expense of his man-to-man focus. Marion has been consistant and up to snuff, but how long can he take playing 40 minutes a night? Barbosa has been great, but not to the point to make up for Bell's lackings. Diaw is a mystery nightly and even on good offensive nights, he's still a defensive liability.

I still say they stave off the Lakers in the long run and win the Pacific, but it's going to be very difficult and will likely mean D'Antoni further exhausting Nash, Hill, Marion among others. I stick by my claim of 54-to-58 wins, but fear it is closer to 54-to-55 TOPS right now.

I'd very much like to see this team take a risk and go after Artest. Diaw and the Atlanta pick may be tempting and if an expiring contract like Piatkowski is thrown in, it should work, if offered and accepted. He'd be very welcome and could provide depth at three positions, supply energy and hustle and could hopefully team up with Marion and Bell to lock-down the perimeter.

While I suspected Utah would be the biggest threat to supplanting the Suns from the "big-3" of the West status, it may very well turn out to be the Lakers. They have the size, depth, leadership and coaching to do so. If Bynum keeps up his recent play and Kobe remains trusting of his young teammates, then I see no reason why they can't challenge for 52-to-57 wins.

If the Suns don't win the Pacific, they may very well fall into the bottom half of the playoff seeds. That would likely doom them in the first round.

[Jeremy]

Can you really say objectively that Barbosa has been "great"? It seems to me that he has caused lots of problems for the Suns--and he can't even hit his shots anymore, especially when we really need him to. I can't stand his play anymore, and would love to trade him (+ filler) for Marcus Camby, if possible.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Would you settle for Elson? :smokin

[Jeremy]

...he's not that bad. :)

[ludda]

weren't there similar doom! threads earlier when the mavs were struggling? Not saying mavs or suns don't have holes that have been exposed, but i still see them as the top teams in the west below the spurs. Lakers will have to prove more to me but they do look solid, obviously better than last year but again, it will be a matter of how all these teams play down the road.

[ShoogarBear]

I agree with most of what's been said here.

The one bright side is that Grant Hill has been everything advertised, and more. Even his defense has been better than expected.

The down side is that, unbelievably, it seems that the interior defense and rebounding has gotten worse. The blame for that has to be laid at the feet on D'Antoni.

I think the Mavs are in much better shape than the Suns. A lot of their struggles have been because they are trying to add new wrinkles which they hope will pay dividends in the postseason.

D'Antoni, on the other hand, has personified the old joke about insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

The Suns are still the most talented team in the league, and they will still be a tough out. But as BillsCarnage said, they're getting older, and they don't seem to have been taught any new tricks.

[m33p0]

with the apparent stagnation of the suns and the mavs, the struggles of the rockets, the steady rise of the lakers and the jazz, excitement by the trailblazers and the hornets, and the hunger by the warriors.... the home stretch in the west will be one crazy ride.

one thing's for sure...


........ its going to be one hell of a western playoffs come summertime.

the spurs will keep its head above water and continue flying under the radar until then.

[ArgSpursFan.]

to trade Thomas was the worst mistake the Suns made in the offseason.

[BonnerDynasty]

Disconnect Between Kerr And D'Antoni?
Suns GM Steve Kerr and the rest of the personnel team have used the last run of games as an evaluation tool, and a 3-5 record with wins over Utah, Tony Parker-less San Antonio and Toronto might not be enough to instill confidence.

There appears to be at least a peripheral disconnect between Kerr -- a staunch believer in defense and depth -- and Mike D'Antoni's high-octane offense/tight rotation mantra that will also play a role in the decision-making.

"The last time I checked, we're one or two games off the lead in the West, so I think we're OK," D'Antoni said. "Could we dominate? Maybe, but we're not. Each year presents a different problem." -- East Valley Tribune

Going Big Next Step For Suns ...

# The Suns are going to give more time to the front-line combination of Brian Skinner and Amaré Stoudemire starting with tonight's game in Los Angeles against the Clippers, whose center, Chris Kaman, is averaging 18.6 points and 14 rebounds.

Suns coach Mike D'Antoni was hesitant to use the big-man pairing, but it looks more palatable after a series of games in which Phoenix has been shredded by interior scoring. That means less of Shawn Marion at power forward, where his shooting has not kept defenses honest. -- The Arizona Republic

What an idiot.

[resistanze]

If they fizzle out of the playoffs again this season, D'Antoni's ass better start auditioning for the Bulls jobs or something.

[Warlord23]

The Suns have let slip away several gilt-edged chances to improve their rotation this season:
1. Trading Amare and change for Garnett.
2. Trading overrated drama queen Marion for Kirilenko or Odom
3. Keeping Kurt Thomas instead of trading him for $$

Even during this season, one would think D'Antoni would try and address the flaws that have stumped his team in past years:
1. Playing a genuine big man next to Amare to help rebounding and defense
2. Playing his backup PGs more to rest Nash (even if it means taking a few losses in the short term while giving them enough time to adjust to the offense)
3. Spread his minutes across a 10-man rotation and not play Hill 35 mpg

He hasn't done any of that this season. They really don't have anyone else to blame but their coach's stubborn ways.

[RonMexico]

According to the paper, D'Antoni is going to be playing Amare and Skinner at the same time more often out there.

I've always said adversity in the season is good for a team, but man this is a lot of adversity. A loss to the Clips tonight would be fairly disappointing.

[timvp]

I think the Suns are fine. Sure, their defense is worse than usual ... but the same can be said for both the Spurs and the Mavs. In fact, both the Spurs and Mavs may be further away from having a championship level defense at this point because the Suns are still the best offensive team in the league and can outscore a team on any given night. The same can't really be said for the Spurs or Mavs.

If Grant Hill stays healthy, I see no reason why they can't be tougher than last year. Sure, Kurt Thomas is gone but D'Antoni hated playing him anyways. At least Skinner is faster and I think D'Antoni would actually enjoy playing him ... if he'd ever give him a chance.

The Suns offense could potentially be their best yet. They are leading the league in field goal percentage and that's with Bell and Diaw shooting poorly. Plus you can expect their three-point shooting to improve. Only Nash is shooting the ball well from downtown. Bell, Barbosa and Marion have a lot of room for improvement.

I also don't like it that PJ Brown is still a free agent and hasn't officially retired. Brown is basically Kurt Thomas but taller and better defensive fundamentals. If he hooks up with the Suns at some point, their defense will improve overnight. Especially against Tim Duncan.

[lefty]

to trade Thomas was the worst mistake the Suns made in the offseason.

What difference? Duncan toyed with Thomas last playoffs

[ludda]

with the apparent stagnation of the suns and the mavs, the struggles of the rockets, the steady rise of the lakers and the jazz, excitement by the trailblazers and the hornets, and the hunger by the warriors.... the home stretch in the west will be one crazy ride.

one thing's for sure...


........ its going to be one hell of a western playoffs come summertime.

the spurs will keep its head above water and continue flying under the radar until then.

the jazz have disappointed me, sure they had a lot of road games and a kind of but not really impressive win over the mavs last night, they have not been a western powerhouse that i predicted earlier this season. Just goes to show that teams will have struggles at some point or another...but the West definitely looks more exciting and open this year.

[Mr. Body]

Talented big men the league over have been slamming Phoenix with big performances all season. Amare may be a worse defender now than he was when he entered the league.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The Suns are still a very scary team, IMO. As Timvp said, signing a PJ Brown could improve the interior D pretty quickly.

I, for one, however, don't see how Grant Hill is going to stay healthy until the playoffs. He's already pushing himself close to his average season's worth of participation. So far so good for Grant, so for his sake let's hope his health continues.

Amare is not the leaper he was before micro-fracture, but he's gotten better in other areas. I think he's somewhat alone on an island in the Suns' defensive schemes and so I don't look at him as being as weak defensively as some have made him out to be.

It will all come down to three things for the Suns I think:
1. Who they're matched up against in the playoffs...certain teams will never be able to keep up with the Suns.
2. Getting stronger on D, especially in the paint...PJ Brown would be great Spurs/Jazz insurance.
3. Keeping Grant Hill healthy. Grant's becoming one of the key cogs in the Suns offense and defense. He's potentially going to be their 3rd most valuable player by playoff time.

I easily envision the Suns in the WCF. I think they should finish with one of the top 3 records in the West, however, minus Grant I don't see them getting out of round 1.

[G-Nob]

WTF? Steve Nash??
http://www.people.com/people/gallery/0,,20168287,00.html

[lefty]

WTF? Steve Nash??
http://www.people.com/people/gallery/0,,20168287,00.html

Is he groping a pregnant woman? :lol

And they call the Spurs dirty

[itzsoweezee]

What difference? Duncan toyed with Thomas last playoffs


yeah, but thomas playing kept amare from fouling out. and thomas put up some offensive numbers too in that series. i can't see skinner contributing the same way.

[Axl Van Dam]

I'll have to agree, but I've been ringing this bell of warning since Thomas was given away for a tidy pocketing of cash. In July I mentioned posted that I believed the Suns should still win the Pacific, but that it wouldn't be by a lot. I posted that they'd struggle to a finish of 54-to-58 wins. I liked both the Hill and Skinner signings, but felt the Suns offseason really screwed them in the immediate and longterm.

I few weeks ago I argued to a few Spurs fans that they shouldn't write off the Suns just because they hadn't played anyone out West, but should rather wait until after Christmas. Well, it's now time to note the two wins (skidding Utah, parker-less San Antonio) vs. three losses (Dallas, Hornets and Lakers).

Right now the Suns shooting isn't at the point where they can simply out-shoot its opponant to make up for its weaknesses any longer. It struggles on the boards nightly, struggles to make the promt defensive rotations often, gives up too much size in the paint, doesn't go deep enough and this is despite playing only seven to eight players for roughly 30-to-40 minutes a night.

There's been no player development, which scares me when injuries strike. There's been very little attempt to address its size issues by either playing Skinner more, which would be smart regardless since he's not an issue on offense, or by acquiring a legit 7-footer. Nash is playing way too many minutes way too often and Hill, despite proving he is and will still be a player both for this and future seasons, is fastly wearing out, I fear. Amare doesn't look the same. Not even close. And while he's improved his shot blocking, it's come at the expense of his man-to-man focus. Marion has been consistant and up to snuff, but how long can he take playing 40 minutes a night? Barbosa has been great, but not to the point to make up for Bell's lackings. Diaw is a mystery nightly and even on good offensive nights, he's still a defensive liability.

I still say they stave off the Lakers in the long run and win the Pacific, but it's going to be very difficult and will likely mean D'Antoni further exhausting Nash, Hill, Marion among others. I stick by my claim of 54-to-58 wins, but fear it is closer to 54-to-55 TOPS right now.

I'd very much like to see this team take a risk and go after Artest. Diaw and the Atlanta pick may be tempting and if an expiring contract like Piatkowski is thrown in, it should work, if offered and accepted. He'd be very welcome and could provide depth at three positions, supply energy and hustle and could hopefully team up with Marion and Bell to lock-down the perimeter.

While I suspected Utah would be the biggest threat to supplanting the Suns from the "big-3" of the West status, it may very well turn out to be the Lakers. They have the size, depth, leadership and coaching to do so. If Bynum keeps up his recent play and Kobe remains trusting of his young teammates, then I see no reason why they can't challenge for 52-to-57 wins.

If the Suns don't win the Pacific, they may very well fall into the bottom half of the playoff seeds. That would likely doom them in the first round.

:reading To put it bluntly, fire D' Antoni's ass. That old geezer is so stubborn that he still doesn't realize that his team needs to play defense to win championships. He still sticks to his run & gun friggin' offense. Hire a coach who will instill defense on this team and only then can the boys from Arizona think of winning it all. :reading

[Armando]

I say the Suns are likely just sleeping walking through the regular season just like the Mavs. Even though as a fan I hate it when teams are indifferent in the season but winning 67 games does not equal playoff success. Lets see how both teams play after All Star break.

[m33p0]

i have to agree that the suns and the mavs are taking the route spurs are taking to get through the regular season.

[lefty]

yeah, but thomas playing kept amare from fouling out. and thomas put up some offensive numbers too in that series. i can't see skinner contributing the same way.

good point

[lefty]

This video will make Suns fans feel better about their team

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0ySJMkMHsJc

[DynastyBuilder]

They may be too concerned with thier music careers (and no I'm not joking)...

mms://phxsuns.wmod.llnwd.net/a205/o2/christmas_carol.wmv

[m33p0]

This video will make Suns fans feel better about their team

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0ySJMkMHsJc

you are evil. :lol

[da_suns_fan]

This video will make Suns fans feel better about their team

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0ySJMkMHsJc


Whoever took the time to make that video is a bigger loser than any of the Suns ever were.

I love being hated this much.

Its just jealousy, thats all.

[td4mvp21]

Whoever took the time to make that video is a bigger loser than any of the Suns ever were.

I love being hated this much.

Its just jealousy, thats all.

What? There's nothing to be jealous of.

[td4mvp21]

I also don't like it that PJ Brown is still a free agent and hasn't officially retired. Brown is basically Kurt Thomas but taller and better defensive fundamentals. If he hooks up with the Suns at some point, their defense will improve overnight. Especially against Tim Duncan.

Wouldn't that be a good guy for the Spurs to sign?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Wouldn't that be a good guy for the Spurs to sign?
Don't have the money though.

[SpursDynasty]

The Spurs have averaged 59 victories in the three 82-game seasons they've won championships.

The way Phoenix and Dallas are playing, they are more or less headed towards a 50-win game season.

The Suns need to get rid of Roger Bell.

[Armando]

The Spurs have averaged 59 victories in the three 82-game seasons they've won championships.

The way Phoenix and Dallas are playing, they are more or less headed towards a 50-win game season.

The Suns need to get rid of Roger Bell.

Raja Bell

[ShoogarBear]

Roger? Damn, you're good.

[phyzik]

Roger? Damn, you're good.

:lol

[CubanMustGo]

Roger? Damn, you're good.

Ignore SpursDynasty. He's just fucking up the things he's supposed to fuck up.