Ron Artest in Silver and Black

[carib]

The time is right for the Spurs to go after Ron Artest, lets not wait until the end of the season to make a move, when we know that Barry, Horry, and Finley will not be back. Artest is earning $7.8 million this season and will make a relative-bargain $8.45 million next year, but can opt out of that final season before free agency starts on July 1.

[CubanMustGo]

Luxury tax says no.

[samikeyp]

No.

[ChumpDumper]

I'd do it if we were desperate.

We are not desperate.

[BonnerDynasty]

No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.

[bigfundamental21]

That would be the stupidest thing we could do. Artest is a cancer that would only disrupt our team chemistry. He can play great defense and score, but his off the court issues and his tendency to lose his cool would outweigh his on court abilities.

[carib]

To add to the list Vaughn and Bruce may have 1 to 2 years top in them, are we going to rebuild now or wait to go after a solid backup. I say make a move now, when we can get some money out of them.

[MoSpur]

Maybe. I doubt the Spurs management would do it though. I think they like the pieces they have in place.

[dbestpro]

Artest would be a strong addition. Imagine him bouncing Dirk around. The next questions would be why would Sacramento, who over values its players, make a trade and who do we have that they would want not named Tony, Manu or Tim?

[Holt's Cat]

Artest:Spurs != Moss:Patriots

[carib]

That would be the stupidest thing we could do. Artest is a cancer that would only disrupt our team chemistry. He can play great defense and score, but his off the court issues and his tendency to lose his cool would outweigh his on court abilities.

I say if you put him around team leaders, that want to win and know how to win and a NO BULL SHIT COACH it has to work.

[carib]

Artest:Spurs != Moss:Patriots


YES
YES
YES

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I'd rather rip off my nads, give them to Beno and try to trade for him than trading for Artest.

[Ocotillo]

Spurs were offered Artest in a trade back in the day for Steve Smith I think. There were other players involved as well but I don't recall other than for some reason I think Ron Mercer was one.

[ChumpDumper]

Why would Sacramento trade us their only good contract?

[nfg3]

Tough call - on one hand his D and scoring ability can't be dismissed but the team chemistry is what I would be concerned about. Would he fit into the Spurs and be able to drop his off court issues? Would he be a cancer in the locker room? Would Pop, TD, Manu amd Tony be the leaders that he would follow and then "straighten up". He is so talented but a head case. Do we need this now? He could fit perfectly or totally disrupt the team.

I would not do this now and play what we've got. Once our injuries heal and we head into the ASB/RR trip I think everything will come together. Though this an intriguing situation to say the least.

[Holt's Cat]

The only way I could see the Spurs entertain his acquisition is if what they had to give up was minimal and they had a very limited commitment to him (ie expiring contract). The Spurs are big on chemistry so it would surprise me if they would make such a move.

The obvious precedent, of course, was Rodman. But that was in a different time and the Spurs were in a different place. They have a championship program now. They don't necessarily have to try to take risks to get to the top.

Also, I'm not sure you could think of this as Rodman going to the Bulls. Dennis had his moments, but he wasn't certifiable like Artest.

I think if Artest hits the market the Kings will get a better offer than what the Spurs would be willing to do. So let's find another player to jones over.

[tav1]

Uhhh...and think that there is zero chance of this happening. And, for that, we should be happy.

[K-State Spur]

Tough call - on one hand his D and scoring ability can't be dismissed but the team chemistry is what I would be concerned about. Would he fit into the Spurs and be able to drop his off court issues? Would he be a cancer in the locker room? Would Pop, TD, Manu amd Tony be the leaders that he would follow and then "straighten up". He is so talented but a head case. Do we need this now? He could fit perfectly or totally disrupt the team.

I would not do this now and play what we've got. Once our injuries heal and we head into the ASB/RR trip I think everything will come together. Though this an intriguing situation to say the least.

You can't dismiss his scoring ability, but you can mildly qualify it by saying that he needs a lot of shots to get those points. (although, he has been a little better the past 2 years)

I don't think you can count on the Spurs' offense giving him 15-17 shots/game. But I do think he would take them anyway.

[VI#21]

There is 0% chance this will happen. Ron Artest will not disrupt anything. The minute he does, he will be dismissed. Anyone who thinks Artest can or will affect the focus of this team hasn't been following this team for long. The only potential change here is that Artest might actually be normal and play ball without any trouble. (They said Stephen Jackson was crazy)

[Holt's Cat]

Artest is not a player who is a malcontent because he's on a losing team. He is a malcontent because he doesn't have complete control of his mental faculties.

[TDMVPDPOY]

we need a thug on this team

[El_Mago]

Artest would love to play with Duncan.

Afterall, he does think Duncan is a Pimp.

[AFBlue]

A healthy Barry with his expiring contract, Mahinmi, and a future first....

still probably wouldn't be enough for Sacto.


It's an interesting thought that has almost no chance of ever happening.

[Vingianx]

They would only trade for artest if they wanted some attention....

[nfg3]

You can't dismiss his scoring ability, but you can mildly qualify it by saying that he needs a lot of shots to get those points. (although, he has been a little better the past 2 years)

I don't think you can count on the Spurs' offense giving him 15-17 shots/game. But I do think he would take them anyway.


You're right about that. :tu He does demand the ball on O and that type of selfishness won't set well with Pop.

Anyway there seems to be little if any chance of this happening since I don't see Pop giving up any of the Big 3 in order to get him and Sac would want one of them in order for a trade to happen.

[urunobili]

No Need No Thugs On This Team

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

If we could get Artest for cheap I'd do it in a heart beat because I'm of the opinion that (1) being around Tim, Tony, Manu and under Pop gives players a different mentality and mindset and they become better team mates. Since Pop has been here, players have inevitably always bought into the system and the Spurs way of doing things almost by osmosis, or (2) one mis-step and Pop will have his ass down at the greyhound bus terminal faster then he could run into the stands.

The guy is a player and make no mistake he would take the Spurs to the next level provided he keeps his head on right. I'm fairly confident that Pop and Tim would do just that without distraction. But, getting him cheap is probably never going to happen so.......never mind.

[AFBlue]

You're right about that. :tu He does demand the ball on O and that type of selfishness won't set well with Pop.



Pop actually encourages his "shooters" to be aggressive with their shot on offense.

To compare, Finley takes roughly 10 shots in just over 25MPG on average, while Artest takes roughly 15 shots in just over 40MPG on average. It should also be noted that Artest is clearly the second option on that team behind Kevin Martin.

A final point why Artest would do well is that he actually converts fairly often when he shoots (44% to Finley's 37%)

Obviously the chemical imbalance and Sacto's asking price will keep this from ever happening....but I'm of the opinion that it might actually work if it did happen.

[Phenomanul]

I'd rather go after a player like Andre Igoudala....

[carib]

No Need No Thugs On This Team

Is Randy Moss a;

1) Thug
2) Cancer
3) Team Player
4) Loves to win
5) Makes others better

I believe in giving second chance

[K-State Spur]

Is Randy Moss a;

1) Thug
2) Cancer
3) Team Player
4) Loves to win
5) Makes others better

I believe in giving second chance

Bad comparison.

Randy Moss' problem has been a bad attitude. Ron Artest's problem is that he freaking nuts.

People who automatically assume that he would be fine surrounded by the big 3 are applying logic to an individual who doesn't go by logic. Now, maybe he would be fine, but you can't assume that and you never can be sure of what's going to set him off.

[Fabbs]

I say if you put him around team leaders, that want to win and know how to win and a NO BULL SHIT COACH it has to work.

Artest:Spurs != Moss:Patriots

I'm down. Put provisions in contract.
Look what Rodman did with the Bulls for those who say it can't be done.

[SouthernFried]

The Spurs wont go after Artest, because we are the Spurs...not the Knicks.

If you don't understand that, you don't understand the Spurs. Go root for Dallas.

[Mr. Body]

Considering Boston's lack of playoff experience together, the Spurs are probably the odds-on favorite to win the championship this year as presently constituted. It's a deep team that's able to tread water ably during injuries. Why would we gut that team and throw in one of the most combustible characters in the game, who's making more money than he's worth and, if he doesn't work out, will keep costing us past this year?

Bad idea.

[Holt's Cat]

I don't think the Spurs are opposed to making a move, but if they do it will be a minor one that addresses a certain need, such as improving their ability to defend a big 3/mobile 4.

But they certainly won't risk team chemistry and unity for that.

[timmy21_4rings]

Yes.

Didn't Robinson behave well for one year that he was with Spurs?


Didn't Stephan Jackson behave well when he was with Spurs?

If Artest does not behave well, we could trade him. He is underpaid for his talents. There are always takers for guys like Artest.

[ChumpDumper]

Why would Sacramento trade us their only good contract?

[atxrocker]

^^what he said

[bdubya]

That'd look weird at the gear store - a row of silver&black road jerseys on the rack, with a big straightjacket in the middle.

[whottt]

I don't think Pop likes Artest...Artest is the only guy I've ever Pop be critical of in the media.


I wouldn't be in favor of aquiring Artest though...not because I think they couldn't control his attitude or because he's crazy...


I wouldn't trade for him because he's injury prone and he's got a habit of choking pretty badly in big playoff series.


Talent wise I'd love to have the dude...part of the reason he's such a great defensive player is because he isn't quite all there...he'd be a great fit on this team in terms talent...in fact pretty much just what we need....


But he is injury prone and suspension prone, lengthy suspension prone, and he does tend to choke...

I really don't think Pop likes him though...a few years ago when the Pacers were touting Artest as the DPOY and sending out press flyers to present his case...Pop pretty much ripped that whole idea to shreds and Artest along with it in the process.

[T Park]

No thanks.

No thugs, no gangsters, no fucking nut jobs.

Keep him in Sacramento were he blends in with the other trash.

[T Park]

Is Randy Moss a;

1) Thug
2) Cancer
3) Team Player
4) Loves to win
5) Makes others better

I believe in giving second chance

Randy moss doesn't make tom Brady better

Randy moss is on his best behavior because this is his last chance to stick in the league.

Randy Moss is on his best behavior cause Bilicheat will kick his ass if he doesn't.


Stupid comparison.

Artest is a certifiable nut job who belongs no where near this team.

You want to root for nut jobs and cancers, go root for the Knicks.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You can't compare Moss to Artest.

When Moss succeeds the team is doing well (both want him catching touchdowns). If Artest succeeds, it means he's being selfish and jacking up stupid shots so he can get 30.

Different sports, different roles. A "me first" guy can ruin a basketball team more than it can a football team. Hell, the Eagles made it to the Superbowl with Owens, who was supposed to be a "team cancer".

[Fillmoe]

Why would Sacramento trade us their only good contract?

kevin martin = good contract

[m33p0]

sacramento will ask for too much for artest.

[Fillmoe]

lol.. what does SA have to offer? NOTHING! TD Manu and Parker will prolly be off the table... who else is left? NOBODY!

[Cherry]

No thanks.
We' re fine.

[SequSpur]

hell yeah, i am tired of these wusses on this team... matt bonner, elson and finley for him.

[SequSpur]

Randy moss doesn't make tom Brady better

Randy moss is on his best behavior because this is his last chance to stick in the league.

Randy Moss is on his best behavior cause Bilicheat will kick his ass if he doesn't.


Stupid comparison.

Artest is a certifiable nut job who belongs no where near this team.

You want to root for nut jobs and cancers, go root for the Knicks.

stfu... Randy Moss is bad ass.

[RC's Boss]

I say if you put him around team leaders, that want to win and know how to win and a NO BULL SHIT COACH it has to work.
Agreed, but this ain't happening, so not really worth discussing.

[howbouthemspurs]

Yay! Artest... he will be as valuable to the spurs as the crummy pieces of shit that dries up on the hairs of my asscrack is to my Vietnamese midget prostitute! ..What can I say.. Its her "thang" .. :)

[ancestron]

I dislike this idea so much I feel a new stronger word needs to be created in order to describe it. like "badwrong", or "badong". Yes, the idea of Ron Artest joining the Spurs is badong.
The Spurs team right now stands for the opposite of Badong--Gnodab.

[Fabbs]

Randy moss doesn't make tom Brady better
Bullcrap. Speed and size make it so some passes all Brady has to do it put it in the vicinity of Moss. See go ahead touchdown vs Colts. Compare with Mannings spot on would-be game winning throw that his reciever dropped.


Randy moss is on his best behavior because this is his last chance to stick in the league. last chance? 1500+ yards and 17 t.d.s and you thought he was near done?


Randy Moss is on his best behavior cause Bilicheat will kick his ass if he doesn't. And why couldn't Pop do the same thing? Oh, because he can only kick Beno Udrihs ass? And a lot of good that did.


Stupid comparison. very.


Artest is a certifiable nut job who belongs no where near this team.
You want to root for nut jobs and cancers, go root for the Knicks
Like a team and coach that has actually repeated, no threepeated like the Bulls and their nutjob Rodman?
Artest is not a must, I'm not saying the trade must be made. But to discount the idea is head in sand.

[phxspurfan]

No, but who we should go after is Brandon Roy...

[ATXSPUR]

I would love for this to happen. But it won't. But honestly I don't give a damn if he is a thug or not. The man can play ball and he would provide extra toughness and defense to this team.

[Sweetey]

NO NO NO ! HELL No ! No THUGS allowed !
:madrun

[TDMVPDPOY]

we should trade for him

if it doesnt work out

we can always trade to the knicks

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

:lmao @ this thread.

Not happening.

[MONTENEGRINO]

Artest would be great in spurs! He was cancer cause he never had chance to play for good team and his frustration is still getting bigger.

[m33p0]

Artest would be great in spurs! He was cancer cause he never had chance to play for good team and his frustration is still getting bigger.

the pacers was a good team. good enough that many picked indiana to have the best chance to win the championship that year. would have been fitting since it was also reggie miller's final year, one of the few people i would have love to win a ring. instead he and sjax had to ruin everything.

[KidCongo]

I dislike this idea so much I feel a new stronger word needs to be created in order to describe it. like "badwrong", or "badong". Yes, the idea of Ron Artest joining the Spurs is badong.
The Spurs team right now stands for the opposite of Badong--Gnodab.

Kung Pow

Rack this shit

[exstatic]

Artest would be great in spurs! He was cancer cause he never had chance to play for good team and his frustration is still getting bigger.
Ron Artest doesn't have a bad attitude, he has a documented chemical imbalance that he refuses to take meds for. He's flat out fucking nuts. Being around anyone, good influence or bad, will never change who he is.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

if any trade is too good to be true for SA it doesn't happen



we should know this by now

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Ron Artest doesn't have a bad attitude, he has a documented chemical imbalance that he refuses to take meds for. He's flat out fucking nuts. Being around anyone, good influence or bad, will never change who he is.

The voice of reason, thank you.

[carib]

Kings Notes: Artest plans to opt out of contract after season
He says his salary doesn't concern him as much as a chance to win an NBA title.

Artest is earning $7.4 million this season and would earn the same salary next season if he didn't opt out.

"Winning is more important," he said. "I'm not thinking about money in my situation. I'm just thinking about winning. I need a ring, or I'll be sick. Whatever I get, I'll get.

We need this guy, he can help us big time.


http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/648351.html

[urunobili]

not in a fucking million years

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I'd rather not.

[exstatic]

Another fucking fool giving up money he'll never get on the open market. Does he have the same agent as his bud Bonzi?

I have to admit I fell a little frisson thinking of Bruce, Ime, and Ron out there in some lineups with Tim in the post. Teams would struggle to score 70. Too bad he's certifiably crazy.

[wildbill2u]

Ron Artest doesn't have a bad attitude, he has a documented chemical imbalance that he refuses to take meds for. He's flat out fucking nuts. Being around anyone, good influence or bad, will never change who he is.
This 'possible' trade came up last summer and I was against it because of his 'character' problems everyone has cited, and they may well be caused by a chemical imbalance that he refusd to treat as you indicate.

All that being said, however, I don't recall reading anything about his being a problem in Sacramento. Is it possible that he's come to terms with his need for medical treatment?

I doubt the trade would come off with the Spurs for a lot of reasons, but I'm curious if anyone has any recent history of Artest's instability on or off the court.

[exstatic]

This 'possible' trade came up last summer and I was against it because of his 'character' problems everyone has cited, and they may well be caused by a chemical imbalance that he refusd to treat as you indicate.

All that being said, however, I don't recall reading anything about his being a problem in Sacramento. Is it possible that he's come to terms with his need for medical treatment?

I doubt the trade would come off with the Spurs for a lot of reasons, but I'm curious if anyone has any recent history of Artest's instability on or off the court.
Sacto's been trying to move him since the beginning of last season. Like everywhere he's been, he wears out his welcome pretty quickly, like after the half season after he was traded there. He sulks and breaks their offense on the regular. If they got a reasonable offer, I think he would be gone, but teams are probably offering scraps and or bad contracts. Ron wanting to opt out must seem like a gift from heaven for them.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

In a HEARTBEAT.

He's not a ball hog, but can score when needed. From the perimeter or posting up (Read: bullying) smaller defenders. Oh not to mention he's one of the, if not the best, defenders in the league. On the perimeter, and in the post.


It's all good.

Except that whole little 'he might be psycho' thing.

[exstatic]

He's not a ball hog, but can score when needed.
His own statements belie that. He wants to be THE MAN and has saids so in the past.

It's all good.

Except that whole little 'he might be psycho' thing.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

[timmy21_4rings]

I do not think Kings are going to Spurs unless they get one of the Spurs top 3. He is not earning much. So there is no reason for Kings to worry abt dumping his salary. The other way that he can come to Spurs is thru free agency.

When Spurs sign players with character issues previously, they normally leave those at the storage and come here. If Spurs sign him for 1 or 2 year contract, I would welcome it. If he does not behave well, it is easy to trade him.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

His own statements belie that. He wants to be THE MAN and has saids so in the past.


Really?

I haven't read that. I don't know where he'd fit in on this team, but as far his play goes...I love it. Multi-talented offensively and a shut down defender. I'd take him, and find a place for him to fit.

[Cherry]

" I need a ring, or I'll be sick. "

yeah, we saw that :nerd

[timmy21_4rings]

His own statements belie that. He wants to be THE MAN and has saids so in the past.
That would be cleared by Pop when Pop sits with Artest before he signs. Pop is good at setting expectations and straight forward. So I do not think this is going to matter.

In the past, Finley, Robinson (big dog) were men in their teams..Big Dog, Ray Allen and Sam fight in press, locker room and everywhere.. Look how big dog was when he came to Spurs...

[timvp]

Ron Artest is on record as saying that if any coach ever let him play "his game" that he'd average 50 points and 20 rebounds. Calling him a loon is an insult to loons all around the world.

If the Spurs wouldn't trade Steve Smith's rotting corpse for Artest, they surely aren't going to trade for him now that his baggage weighs about ten times as much.

[Borosai]

It would make losing games more interesting.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

It would make losing games more interesting.

Not to mention he gets the fans involved.

[Indazone]

Artest says he will opt out after this season. That means 27 other teams are gunning for him.

[exstatic]

Artest says he will opt out after this season. That means 27 other teams are gunning for him.
I doubt that many (27) are interested. NBA general managers deal in the real world of salaries and locker room issues, not the make believe "what if" world of the fans. I can name you three teams that will have absolutely no interest: Chicago, Indy, and Sacto. :lol

[mikejones99]

detroit would probly not take him either

[Slinkyman]

artest wants to go to New York.

[txstr1986]

Artest:Spurs != Moss:Patriots

And we all know how that is working out

[debo]

Not to mention he gets the fans involved.
:lol

[ClingingMars]

No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.

[Ghost Writer]

As a St. John's and "balla" fan, I have long coveted Ron Artest for the Spurs.

He is Bruce Bowen with the benefit of an offensive skill set.






:cooldevil

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

As a St. John's and "balla" fan, I have long coveted Ron Artest for the Spurs.

He is Bruce Bowen with the benefit of an offensive skill set.






:cooldevil
Is it necessary to put the devil at the end of all your posts? :lol

[Ghost Writer]

Yes.




:cooldevil

[ChumpDumper]

His brother Daniel is available. He could be the 6'5" 270 pound center we have been waiting for!

[carib]

There is no better player on the market next year than Ron, no matter how you try to spin it.

[exstatic]

As a St. John's and "balla" fan, I have long coveted Ron Artest for the Spurs.

He is Bruce Bowen with the benefit of an offensive skill set, minus the brain.






:cooldevil
FIFY

[Ghost Writer]

Is Artest nuts?

Sure.

But maybe drill sergeant Pop and a structured, winning environment is what he needs.




I don't know how the Spurs would afford him. That's the real issue.




:cooldevil

[exstatic]

Is Artest nuts?

Sure.

But maybe drill sergeant Pop and a structured, winning environment is what he needs.




I don't know how the Spurs would afford him. That's the real issue.




:cooldevil
The environment has nothing to do with it. He has a chemical imbalance of the brain which would exist in a yoga class, a gulag, or on a basketball team. He needs meds, not guidance, but he refuses to take them.

[manufor3]

No No
No No

[e20dylan]

the dude has the craziest feet ever. i dunno if they are webbed feet or WHAT thats probably why hes so good defensively

[carib]

Kings forward Ron Artest says his time in Sacramento has been as enjoyable as any he has spent in the NBA. Artest also says, though, that as he has looked around recently, he feels he won't be with the Kings much longer. "I look around our team, and I see the emerging young stars, and I don't get the sense that I'm going to be around," said Artest, who recently said he plans to opt out of his contract during the offseason."

The West is getting stronger, Lakers, and Dallas are making some big changes, and I say its time for the Spurs to get stronger also. We looked good last year but all the top teams in the West looked good also last year, but the difference is that they are getting healthier and stronger; the Spurs can’t go the distance with some of the same old horses.

Its time to make a push, a big push for Ron Artest.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Udoka's playing Artest'esque defense without the head case issues.

I'd stick with him.

[AFBlue]

If I had to handicap it....

80% chance the Spurs make a trade.

1% chance that trade includes Ron Artest for any and all reasons listed.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I'm all for Ron Artest minus his psychocity (is that a word?), although I still have my doubts about him.
If the Spurs trade for him, they better know what they're doing.

[AFBlue]

I'm all for Ron Artest minus his psychocity (is that a word?), although I still have my doubts about him.
If the Spurs trade for him, they better know what they're doing.

Not sure it's a word, but it's a moot point because they can't be seperated...like a white-bread balogna sandwich and the roof of your mouth.

[carib]

If I had to handicap it....

80% chance the Spurs make a trade.

1% chance that trade includes Ron Artest for any and all reasons listed.

If the question was asked last week about Pau Gasol being traded To the Lakers, your answer would had been 1%.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Not sure it's a word, but it's a moot point because they can't be seperated...like a white-bread balogna sandwich and the roof of your mouth.
:lol

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

If the question was asked last week about Pau Gasol being traded To the Lakers, your answer would had been 1%.
Your point?

[AFBlue]

If the question was asked last week about Pau Gasol being traded To the Lakers, your answer would had been 1%.

Actually it would have been less....but we're not talking about the Lakers, who as of this off-season were talking about trading their franchise player and who've been in big-name trade discussions the last two years.

We're talking about the Spurs, who as I said, are not prone to making big trades, especially in response to some other big trade....it's not their MO.

[O-Factor]

If we'd happen to aquire Artest, I doubt he acts up. Not on Pop's team. Not on Duncan's team. He has mentioned how much of a "pimp" he thinks Duncan is. I think he could excel within the Spurs organization and be happy.

Either way, trade or no trade, Spurs are taking the title this year.

[Kamnik]

If this would be his last year of the current contract... I would do it.

As he also has the next year on player option. I wouldnt... :toast

[hsxvvd]

That would be the stupidest thing we could do. Artest is a cancer that would only disrupt our team chemistry. He can play great defense and score, but his off the court issues and his tendency to lose his cool would outweigh his on court abilities.

I guess we've done it before with Rodman.

What's the general opinion of how that worked out? I personally hated it.

[El_Mago]

I wonder if the Spurs make a run at Arenas or Brand this summer.

Maybe the Spurs are trying to stay tight this year, repeat with this squad, and then try and go three-peat with a big free agent next summer.

For those who talk about money being an issue, Arenas and Brand have gone on our record and said they would take less to play for a top notch club who is capable of winning a championship.

[ThomasGranger]

Unless you're a team that doesn't already have the pieces to get past the first or second round of the playoffs, the high risk that comes with acquiring Artest does not outweigh the high reward. SA doesn't need to make that gamble.

[ThomasGranger]

Brand I could see them making a run for. Not Arenas.

[Whisky Dog]

Brand would have to take a pay cut of almost unheard of proportions to come to the Spurs. Anyone the Spurs get won't be making near any of the Big 3. The question is finding the right mix of energy and execution in role players to surround them with. The Spurs already have 3 all star caliber players, there's no reason to even think about adding another.

[ThomasGranger]

Brand would have to take a pay cut of almost unheard of proportions to come to the Spurs. Anyone the Spurs get won't be making near any of the Big 3. The question is finding the right mix of energy and execution in role players to surround them with. The Spurs already have 3 all star caliber players, there's no reason to even think about adding another.

You're probably right, but Brand is definitely on the back end of his career and recovering from injury. By the time the Spurs have some money to spend his market value may make him somewhat within reach, especially if his numbers drop next season.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Those of you advocating for Artest - have you not seen this guy interviewed? He is batshit crazy, mentally ill, and there's no way he fits here.

As Ex said, our team wins not through having the best talent, but through chemistry and smarts, and artest is all anti-chemistry and stupidity.

NO.

[SenorSpur]

Those of you advocating for Artest - have you not seen this guy interviewed? He is batshit crazy, mentally ill, and there's no way he fits here.

As Ex said, our team wins not through having the best talent, but through chemistry and smarts, and artest is all anti-chemistry and stupidity.

NO.

Exactamundo!

Few people realize that Ron Artest, despite his occasional on-court brilliance, is a chemistry cancer whose actions often run counter to those of the rest of the team. He breaks plays off, hogs the ball and, at times, gets involves in mano-y-mano scoring duels with the likes of Kobe, LeBron and other NBA elite. He thinks that he is an elite player and at times sacrifices the team concept in order to showcase himself.

[VaSpursFan]

no to artest...his talent isn't worth the inevitable heartache he will bring.

[exstatic]

We're not getting a big FA this summer. Spurs have like 7 contracts that run into next year, and those contracts put them right about at the salary cap. That means they have the MCE, one trade exception of $2M+, and minimum contracts to sign 6 players to fill their roster to the minimum 13 players.

The next window for a big FA is 2010. Only Tim and Tony are signed beyond that summer, and Tim will be on his lower $$$ extension. Of course, signing a big fish involves jettsoning a (then) 33 YO Manu Ginobili, but they'll be chasing their next franchise player at that point, and it won't be a 33 YO SG that they will want to build around with TP.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

We're not getting a big FA this summer. Spurs have like 7 contracts that run into next year, and those contracts put them right about at the salary cap. That means they have the MCE, one trade exception of $2M+, and minimum contracts to sign 6 players to fill their roster to the minimum 13 players.

The next window for a big FA is 2010. Only Tim and Tony are signed beyond that summer, and Tim will be on his lower $$$ extension. Of course, signing a big fish involves jettsoning a (then) 33 YO Manu Ginobili, but they'll be chasing their next franchise player at that point, and it won't be a 33 YO SG that they will want to build around with TP.

For next year:

Bigs - Duncan, Oberto, Bonner, Splitter, Mahinmi.
Q. Do we get to pay Splitter whatever the 28th pick in the draft is rated at, or will he get some of the MLE? I hope it's the former, then we can use the MLE on a young, promising swingman.
Wings - Ginobili, Bowen, Udoka, ?, ?.
Probably one a young up and comer with length and athleticism, one a pure shooter.
PGs - Parker, Vaughn, ?.
Probably a young project.

[mystargtr34]

You're probably right, but Brand is definitely on the back end of his career and recovering from injury. By the time the Spurs have some money to spend his market value may make him somewhat within reach, especially if his numbers drop next season.

Elton Brand is 28

[jrmp317]

For next year:

Bigs - Duncan, Oberto, Bonner, Splitter, Mahinmi.
Q. Do we get to pay Splitter whatever the 28th pick in the draft is rated at, or will he get some of the MLE? I hope it's the former, then we can use the MLE on a young, promising swingman.
Wings - Ginobili, Bowen, Udoka, ?, ?.
Probably one a young up and comer with length and athleticism, one a pure shooter.
PGs - Parker, Vaughn, ?.
Probably a young project.
Splitter would be signing the normal rookie guaranteed contract for 3 years. It normally never touches any of the MLE.

[ThomasGranger]

Elton Brand is 28

Right, but he has already played eight seasons, and unless he plays into his mid-late thirties, he is probably already past the halfway point of his career (which is what I meant by the "backend"). By 2010 he will be, what, 30? That's not exactly "old," but most teams looking to sign big money players who are 30+ are in "win-right-now" mode and already have big salary commitments on their roster.

Of course, the Spurs will probably be looking for help at the 2 and 3 spots by then, but who knows . . .

[objective]

Elton Brand is 28

Brand will be 29 at the start of next season, he'll turn 30 before the playoffs.

Shareef Abdur-Rahim was 27 when his game fell apart after injuries started to take their toll.

Before the breakdown happened over the previous 5 seasons he had averaged 20 and 9.

Then 3 seasons when he averaged 13 and 5.5, and the last two seasons he's gone way downhill, combined averages of 5 points a game, and he's going to miss nearly this entire season.

[JP le Requin]

i really think artest could help us, he know to score and has the D...
bowen and artest on kobe in conference finals will help us to advance to nba finals and both could guard ray allen and paul pierce..and we have ginobili the factor X of all playof series!!!

artest come on, we have to improve our defense for the PO, to improve our chances to have another scorer...this guy can play both court

[BonnerDynasty]

It would be pretty cool to see Bowen and Artest playing at the same time on the same side on defense....


Still not worth it.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

It would be pretty cool to see Bowen and Artest playing at the same time on the same side on defense....


Still not worth it.



If the Big 3 off limit, I'd send the entire damn team for Artest to come over, the upgrade would be ridiculous for the Spurs



but this again has ZEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRROOOOOOO chance of happening, so let's just kill this thread already

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

How many times must it be spelled out for you - Artest is a NUTCASE. He would NOT play within the system. He would unsettle the team's chemistry. No matter how good an individual player he is, he would REDUCE the Spurs' chance of repeating. This is NOT fantasy basketball, this is the actual game where the player's humanity matters at least as much as his statistical contribution. Artest is not the Spurs' kind of human being. Case closed.

[Obstructed_View]

I vomited in my mouth a little at the idea of the Spurs trading for Artest.

[carib]

Ron Artest VS Randy Moss
Ron Artest VS Rasheed Wallace
Ron Artest Vs Charles Barkley
Ron Artest Vs Bobby Knight

They all are competitive and like to win, on the edge yes nut jobs close, but they make others better. They make mistakes, more than others, no but the media just like their ass.

[TDMVPDPOY]

WHY YOU GUYS HATING

at least ron artest isnt crazy like britney...hahahahhaa

[Louie Vega]

That would be the stupidest thing we could do. Artest is a cancer that would only disrupt our team chemistry. He can play great defense and score, but his off the court issues and his tendency to lose his cool would outweigh his on court abilities.


People said the same thing about Rodman when the Bulls went after him! The circumstances are earily similiar. :wakeup It could work. Stranger things have happened.

[mojorizen7]

we need a thug on this team
You guys need another thug like a fish needs a bicycle.

[Obstructed_View]

People said the same thing about Rodman when the Bulls went after him! The circumstances are earily similiar. :wakeup It could work. Stranger things have happened.
People said the same things when the Spurs went after him, and they were right.

[ChumpDumper]

You guys need another thug like a fish needs a bicycle.Another thug?

Oh yeah, you count Horry. :lmao

Leave it to a sunfan to quote Gloria Steinem in a basketball forum.

[Obstructed_View]

Another thug?

Oh yeah, you count Horry. :lmao

Leave it to a sunfan to quote Gloria Steinem in a basketball forum.
Don't forget about Bowen. Steve Nash is, I'm sure, the only player in the NBA with bruises on his shins. :lol

[CaptainLate]

The time is right for the Spurs to go after Ron Artest, lets not wait until the end of the season to make a move, when we know that Barry, Horry, and Finley will not be back.

Now with the Flakers back in contention, we better get a new Kobe stopper :depressed because Bowen is old and Udoka is not a starter.

[lrrr]

People said the same thing about Rodman when the Bulls went after him! The circumstances are earily similiar. :wakeup It could work. Stranger things have happened.

If TD had the temperament of Pop and Pop had the temperament of TD, it may work. Jordan had the ferocious leadership to keep everyone on those Bulls teams in line, and Phil had the zen to tolerate them.

Ever since Rodman, Pop seems to have vowed not to take on another nutcase. And another thing, for all the whackiness, Rodman was a winner, he already had proven he could play the ball necessary to win rings. All Ronnie has done is sabotage a legitimate contender mid season by charging the stands. IMO, he's had his chance. He's played on winning and loosing teams and hasn't shown he can succeed in either situation.

[carib]

I said it first and in a few days it will be done, Ron in silver and black

[Holt's Cat]

why?

What's the reason for the Spurs panicking and taking on Artest? Because someone else made a trade? What the fuck? The Spurs have won 4 titles precisely because they have not made rash moves and because they focus on putting together a good group committed to winning who are sane. I find it amusing when a bunch of armchair GMs want to fuck up what has won 3 titles in the last 5 years. What are you little babies going to do when the spurs don't gut a title team as you want them to? Whine more loudly? Stop watching their games? You assclowns don't know the first thing about putting together a NBA championship team. What's more amusing is how you can't even enjoy the spurs success, which the fans of 29 other teams have not seen over the last 5 years. Shut the fuck up already.

[SenorSpur]

There is an old NBA adage - never trade big for small. Any deal that Elson is in, the Spurs need to acquire a big in return. If they're going to move Barry, I'd rather see them go after an up-and-coming version like Mikael Pietrus.

Artest is a fantastic player, but his unstable tendencies make me nervous about bringing him aboard. Also, there's no telling what his contract demands will be after next season.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I think we have a 5% chance of landing artest, so this could all be for nothing

[T Park]

agreed.

I doubt the Spurs are seriously in contention for him if hes even available.

I'd rather they go after the realistic options like Diop, Thomas, Miller, or whoever.

[spursrule32]

why?

What's the reason for the Spurs panicking and taking on Artest? .


I'm just a fan, but I'm having a hard time seeing how we are such the underdogs that we need to even think about messing with the team chemistry that has been pretty successful for the past couple of years. If you're a mavs fan and you want the Spurs to trade for Artest - I understand that. Wanting the knuckle head that was in the stands fighting with fans just because he plays good defense? Just seems to be everything against what the Spurs stand for - class and professionalism. Say what you want about Rodman, but I don't think you can compare the two. At least Rodman hustled everytime he was out there - despite his off court antics. He had some bad techs (kicking the camera man,) but he never missed games b/c of his rap album debut.

[m33p0]

Diop Diop Diop Diop Diop :D

[whottt]

why?

What's the reason for the Spurs panicking and taking on Artest? Because someone else made a trade?


I personally would do this trade even if the Lakers and Suns hadn't done their trades....in fact, I am not advocating aquiring a player to put against their aquisitions...I'm advocating a player that fills a need that the Spurs have had for a while now...and who plays some serious D and has a nice offensive game.



What the fuck? The Spurs have won 4 titles precisely because they have not made rash moves and because they focus on putting together a good group committed to winning who are sane. I find it amusing when a bunch of armchair GMs want to fuck up what has won 3 titles in the last 5 years. What are you little babies going to do when the spurs don't gut a title team as you want them to? Whine more loudly? Stop watching their games? You assclowns don't know the first thing about putting together a NBA championship team. What's more amusing is how you can't even enjoy the spurs success, which the fans of 29 other teams have not seen over the last 5 years. Shut the fuck up already.



Ok...I'll be watching for the next time you suggest a trade, or losing one of the current cast for a star we have not...Jason.


For the record...once you get at the level the Spurs are at....you can sometimes gain a huge benefit by adding a headcase...Dennis.

[m33p0]

What are you little babies going to do when the spurs don't gut a title team as you want them to?

trading away elson does not compute to gutting a championship team.

[Ghost Writer]

why?

What's the reason for the Spurs panicking and taking on Artest? Because someone else made a trade? What the fuck? The Spurs have won 4 titles precisely because they have not made rash moves and because they focus on putting together a good group committed to winning who are sane. I find it amusing when a bunch of armchair GMs want to fuck up what has won 3 titles in the last 5 years. What are you little babies going to do when the spurs don't gut a title team as you want them to? Whine more loudly? Stop watching their games? You assclowns don't know the first thing about putting together a NBA championship team. What's more amusing is how you can't even enjoy the spurs success, which the fans of 29 other teams have not seen over the last 5 years. Shut the fuck up already.
Because our rivals got better and we have not, dumb@ss.

And if you can get a devalued talent for spare parts, you should take that chance.

You yourself admitted that the Spurs are inept in free agency.

[Holt's Cat]

Because our rivals got better and we have not, dumb@ss.

And if you can get a devalued talent for spare parts, you should take that chance.

So you move a useful rotation player and a 1st round pick for someone who you yourself has admitted is a certifiable nut with the idea that if he does indeed manage to fuck up your championship run this year you cut him and pay him $7 mil to go away.




You yourself admitted that the Spurs are inept in free agency.

How are they "inept"? They managed to surround the big 3 with a solid supporting cast, mostly built through free agency.

[Holt's Cat]

Because our rivals got better and we have not, dumb@ss.



Which "rivals" have gotten better? Man you're a pussy.

[Ghost Writer]

You said you don't trust them to bring in a star-level free agent.

Here's your modest trade for one.

A valuable rotation player and a 1st round pick?

Oh, geez, that's way too much!

Dope.

[stxspurs]

he is gonna opt out anyway...so why not use him for this year....if he wacks out he can sit the bench...thats were elson was going to be anyway...i dont see pop putting up with him and i think ron would respect the way pop coaches...he wants a ring bad so he has the fire.....i think he is worth the chance....like i said he can be let go if he doesnt fit

[Kori Ellis]

I would like Ron Artest in the Silver & Black, but he definitely has some mental issues. However, he's not as good when he's on his medication because he doesn't play as intense. So it's kind of a weird catch 22.

[Mr. Body]

The team was partly built around Rodman when he was here - he was the second best player, third the nights Sean was playing well.

There's a big difference with Artest, who will some nights be the second best player, but overall has none of the status Rodman had, although largely he's just as good. Rodman screwed with the team because he was high up in the pecking order. Artest would never get that chance. He'd be, at least, fourth in line. And he'd start on the bench.

I'm not sure he'd accept that status, but he just might -- he's never been an 'ego' player like some others, and one of his problems has been playing on weak teams with even weaker structures of order. If he acts up, he sits on the bench. It's not a huge thing to give up Elson+Barry+something else for that. But it's clearly risky, but with huge reward. Starting lineups with him next to Duncan going small, or bringing him off the bench with Ginobili.

[Holt's Cat]

The team was partly built around Rodman when he was here - he was the second best player, third the nights Sean was playing well.

There's a big difference with Artest, who will some nights be the second best player, but overall has none of the status Rodman had, although largely he's just as good. Rodman screwed with the team because he was high up in the pecking order. Artest would never get that chance. He'd be, at least, fourth in line. And he'd start on the bench.

I'm not sure he'd accept that status, but he just might -- he's never been an 'ego' player like some others, and one of his problems has been playing on weak teams with even weaker structures of order. If he acts up, he sits on the bench. It's not a huge thing to give up Elson+Barry+something else for that. But it's clearly risky, but with huge reward. Starting lineups with him next to Duncan going small, or bringing him off the bench with Ginobili.

The difference is, when the Spurs dealt for Rodman they were on the outside looking in. Taking the risk was worth it because they had to see if they could close the gap. Now the Spurs have the championship formula. They don't need to make such a panic move. Gambling on Artest makes sense for a team like the Nuggets, a team that needs to find something that will vault them into the upper echelon of the West. If it blows up, hey, they tried. If Artest blows up the Spurs, you just wasted a potential title year(s).

[Ghost Writer]

I understand your reservations, but do you really think the Spurs will win it by doing nothing this year?

I'm not so sure with all the moves our rivals have made, coupled with the team's general atrophy.

Artest would be a mercenary for these playoffs.

If it was not a great fit for the team or the player, Artest walks in the summer.

[Zarko's Ghost]

We all know there are some problems with getting Crazy Ron Ron. But I think it is well worth the risk if he can be had for Barry, Elson and picks.
It provides the Spurs with great flexibility with their rotations, which is something they lack now.

He would create matchup nightmares for the other western conf. playoff teams if we play him at the poer forward position for 20-25 minutes. A lot of the rival power forwards are jump shooters (Nowitski, Al Harrington, David West, Scola/Hays, Boozer, Odom). When Shaq and Bynum are in the games, even Stoudemire and Gasol will be pushed out of the paint. Only Denver with Martin and Nene have tall brusing forwards who could give Ron trouble. I think he could check the rest of them on D and rebound with them. But none of them, with the exception of maybe Odom, could contain Ron at the offensive end. We would be able to dictate matchups instead of adjusting to others.

And, if he causes problems, just send his ass home. I suspect that since he will be playing for a new deal we would get "good" Ron for the rest of the year. Its well worth the risk.

[Holt's Cat]

So it isn't guaranteed that it will work, but let's gamble a championship year on it? F that.

[Ghost Writer]

There are no guarantees in life.

Wouldn't you feel better aggressively going for it?

How many years have we lamented the Spurs being that close to winning it during Duncan's reign?

[Zarko's Ghost]

So it isn't guaranteed that it will work, but let's gamble a championship year on it? F that.


It's not as if the championship is guaranteed if we stand pat. Since all the west teams are so close in talent, matchups are will play a huge role in determining which teams advance. Artest gives us an edge. I think it is worth the risk.

[Holt's Cat]

There are no guarantees in life.

Sure. But this team just won 3 titles in the last 5 years. They're proven.



Wouldn't you feel better aggressively going for it?


We're worried about feelings now? Let's sit in a circle and hold each others c@cks while singing Kum Ba Yah.




How many years have we lamented the Spurs being that close to winning it during Duncan's reign?

Well, they're "close" no longer. This isn't 2001.

[Ghost Writer]

The Spurs were capable of winning the last 5 titles and you d@mn well know it.

The mere fact that Pop will keep Artest on a short leash and we won't be locked into him beyond this season makes it a calculated risk.

[Holt's Cat]

The Spurs were capable of winning the last 5 titles and you d@mn well know it.


Fine, they were 0.4* and one foul away from winning 5 in a row. Why exactly are we panicking now?




The mere fact that Pop will keep Artest on a short leash and we won't be locked into him beyond this season makes it a calculated risk.

So Pop benches him after a couple of games and then Artest sulks and does something incredibly dumb. You just gave up a 1st round pick for that as well as passing on whatever else you could have gotten for what you sent out for him. Yippee.

[Ghost Writer]

Yeah, but who we going to get in the first round that will either stick with us or make an impact?

For every Parker there's been 5 anonymous first rounders.

The Spurs will exhaust all options before pulling the trigger for Artest. They are calculatingly conservative.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Ron Artest as a Spurs makes too much sense for this to happen

[Holt's Cat]

Yeah, but who we going to get in the first round that will either stick with us or make an impact?

Maybe a Josh Howard who the Spurs would have drafted in '03 had they kept the pick. Maybe another Tony Parker for that matter. Perhaps a David Lee.



For every Parker there's been 5 anonymous first rounders.


Let's see, they have the rights to the most NBA ready big in Europe right now. They have an ultra athletic big in Austin who will be joining the club full time next year. Their '04 pick Udrih is still in the NBA and will be a starter.



The Spurs will exhaust all options before pulling the trigger for Artest. They are calculatingly conservative.

Right, which is why they will not panic and deal for Artest.

[SenorSpur]

The team was partly built around Rodman when he was here - he was the second best player, third the nights Sean was playing well.

There's a big difference with Artest, who will some nights be the second best player, but overall has none of the status Rodman had, although largely he's just as good. Rodman screwed with the team because he was high up in the pecking order. Artest would never get that chance. He'd be, at least, fourth in line. And he'd start on the bench.

I'm not sure he'd accept that status, but he just might -- he's never been an 'ego' player like some others, and one of his problems has been playing on weak teams with even weaker structures of order. If he acts up, he sits on the bench. It's not a huge thing to give up Elson+Barry+something else for that. But it's clearly risky, but with huge reward. Starting lineups with him next to Duncan going small, or bringing him off the bench with Ginobili.

I would beg to differ with you on that point, my man. Artest has never "outwardly" been an ego player. However he knows that he's an upper-echelon player and does have a natural competitive pride and ego that sometimes he is unable to harness. I do remember reading an article in the Sac Bee, earlier this season, that describes Artest's behavior when going up against marqee players. It seems whenever Sac was playing a team that featured a superstar player, like Kobe, Artest would go to great lengths to prove that he could match that opposing player bucket for bucket- even if it meant getting into mano y mano scoring duels.

There was a specific instance where Artest would intentionally break off a play that wasn't called for him to setup in the post. Instead he'd run directly to the post and demand the ball. Beno, being the cupcake that he is, deferred to Artest and dumped the ball into him. Artest would then go 1 on 1 with the opposing player, totally disregarding the play that was called by the bench. As a result, Coach Theus yelled at Beno something to the effect that "if he was going to be the PG, he needed to "run the team" and the play in accordance to what was called."

While that may sound like typical competitive player ego, it compromises the team objective. Especially when Kevin Martin is now billed as the "face and future of the Sac Kings". Another example of how Artest is quite a contradictory and conflicted player and person.

[Holt's Cat]

Artest is not a Rodman or a TO. He's mental. I mean, it's great when you're an internet GM because you have no real responsibilities or concerns when a move backfires or blows up a championship team. It's a little bit different when your livelihood depends on making the right call.

[Ghost Writer]

Dude. If he doesn't work out, he's gone in the offseason.

You really think given the opportunity to contribute to a title, Artest is going to go bananas?

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Now id like an honest opinion and not a homerish one...... Of course its a spurs forum so i know there will be different opinions leaning more towards the latter :lol

Would you guys be worried if the Nuggets got Artest or do you think it will just blow up and end up in disaster?

[anakha]

Would you guys be worried if the Nuggets got Artest or do you think it will just blow up and end up in disaster?

Whether he becomes the missing piece or ends up causing problems - either option is entirely in Artest's hands.

Are you willing to trust him with that responsibility?

[rascal]

I would beg to differ with you on that point, my man. Artest has never "outwardly" been an ego player. However he knows that he's an upper-echelon player and does have a natural competitive pride and ego that sometimes he is unable to harness. I do remember reading an article in the Sac Bee, earlier this season, that describes Artest's behavior when going up against marqee players. It seems whenever Sac was playing a team that featured a superstar player, like Kobe, Artest would go to great lengths to prove that he could match that opposing player bucket for bucket- even if it meant getting into mano y mano scoring duels.

There was a specific instance where Artest would intentionally break off a play that wasn't called for him to setup in the post. Instead he'd run directly to the post and demand the ball. Beno, being the cupcake that he is, deferred to Artest and dumped the ball into him. Artest would then go 1 on 1 with the opposing player, totally disregarding the play that was called by the bench. As a result, Coach Theus yelled at Beno something to the effect that "if he was going to be the PG, he needed to "run the team" and the play in accordance to what was called."

While that may sound like typical competitive player ego, it compromises the team objective. Especially when Kevin Martin is now billed as the "face and future of the Sac Kings". Another example of how Artest is quite a contradictory and conflicted player and person.

Artest won't be pulling that off with the spurs. The spurs are not Sac. and Artest knows that he could not play the mano a mano game and disrupt the play calling and get away with it on the spurs.

His competitive fire is just what the spurs need and I see him as a player who could ignate a fire with his desire. Gives them another hard nosed defensive player who can also beat you offensively.

I don't know if Artest will work out long term but in the short term he could be a difference maker for this year.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Whether he becomes the missing piece or ends up causing problems - either option is entirely in Artest's hands.

Are you willing to trust him with that responsibility?

:lol no way. Give me Mike Miller over him anyday

Id be more inclined to give up LK in a deal for Miller over a deal for Artest

[Holt's Cat]

Dude. If he doesn't work out, he's gone in the offseason.

And you just gave up something for nothing.



You really think given the opportunity to contribute to a title, Artest is going to go bananas?

Yes.

[Ghost Writer]

Whether he becomes the missing piece or ends up causing problems - either option is entirely in Artest's hands.

Are you willing to trust him with that responsibility?
Yes.

The Spurs are the perfect team to give Artest focus, discipline and stability.

[ATXSPUR]

The holier than thou posters here crack me up. Like one player can really disrupt the team chemistry we have. Most cases of one player screwing up a locker room happens on teams with very young and inexperienced players who probably didn't have guidance in the first place anyway.

Artest's talents are just too big to pass on if we can get him for nothing more than Barry Elson cash and a pick.

This would seriously help out chances for a repeat!

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Nuggets wont be getting Artest. The Front Office refuses to give up LK for a rent a player.

Well i guess thats it then, unless the Kings crack and trade him for Eddie/JR & a 1st :lol but i bet they end up keeping him and he opts out.

[MarCowMar]

I like Artest, but man, where is he going to fit in the lineup? We already have two great defenders in Bruce and Ime, and we're not even finding enough minutes for Ime.

I'd prefer we keep Splitter and Ian, who could both be awesome for us next year. If we want another tough-nose defender with some offensive skills, why not just play Ime more?? He seems a lot more proven than Artest at this point and we KNOW he can work within the offense.

Save the fantasy bball trades for Dallas and Phoenix.

[Reggie Miller]

No, no a thousand times no.

Most of these points have been made by others, but I will reemphasize them again in the hopes that hearing it from a Pacers' fan might make some of you wake up and smell the river.

1. Artest is not a malcontent or a "bad character guy." He is mentally ill. It is probably "just" bi-polar disorder, but he can be completely unpredictable. Sometimes he even forgets what he has done or said during one of his "manic" phases.

2. Artest is somewhat overrated as a defender, because neither Indiana or Sacramento were/are good defensive teams.

3. Artest's offense has a tendency to disappear when an above-average defender covers him. This is why he often chokes in playoff games. He is neither a pure shooter nor a reliable post player.

4. Comparing Stephen Jackson to Artest is laughable. There is no comparison. Jax is a bit of a malcontent who can pull it together for the right team. Jax has bad judgment and poor impulse control, but otherwise holds it together. Again, Artest is mentally ill. Jax + good intentions = championship. Artest + good intentions = Still Fucking Crazy.

[Ghost Writer]

You find a spot for Artest. He's that good.

And Udoka is not.

Artest is like Bowen, but with a full complement of offensive skills.

The Spurs should've traded for him long ago when the Bulls offered Artest and Mercer for S. Smith.

Ironically, we wound up signing Mercer anyway.

[Holt's Cat]

No, no a thousand times no.

Most of these points have been made by others, but I will reemphasize them again in the hopes that hearing it from a Pacers' fan might make some of you wake up and smell the river.

1. Artest is not a malcontent or a "bad character guy." He is mentally ill. It is probably "just" bi-polar disorder, but he can be completely unpredictable. Sometimes he even forgets what he has done or said during one of his "manic" phases.

2. Artest is somewhat overrated as a defender, because neither Indiana or Sacramento were/are good defensive teams.

3. Artest's offense has a tendency to disappear when an above-average defender covers him. This is why he often chokes in playoff games. He is neither a pure shooter nor a reliable post player.

4. Comparing Stephen Jackson to Artest is laughable. There is no comparison. Jax is a bit of a malcontent who can pull it together for the right team. Jax has bad judgment and poor impulse control, but otherwise holds it together. Again, Artest is mentally ill. Jax + good intentions = championship. Artest + good intentions = Still Fucking Crazy.

It's good to hear from someone who's seen it firsthand.

[Holt's Cat]

You find a spot for Artest. He's that good.

And Udoka is not.

Artest is like Bowen, but with a full complement of offensive skills.

The Spurs should've traded for him long ago when the Bulls offered Artest and Mercer for S. Smith.

Ironically, we wound up signing Mercer anyway.


He's "that good" and yet can allegedly be had for 57 year old Brent Barry and Francisco Elson. There's a reason....

[Ghost Writer]

... yes, which has been acknowledged.

[Holt's Cat]

... yes, which has been acknowledged.


So you acknowledge that he's a nut and likely to fuck things up but you want the Spurs to make the trade to make yourself feel better. Grand.

[ChumpDumper]

No, no a thousand times no.

Most of these points have been made by others, but I will reemphasize them again in the hopes that hearing it from a Pacers' fan might make some of you wake up and smell the river.

1. Artest is not a malcontent or a "bad character guy." He is mentally ill. It is probably "just" bi-polar disorder, but he can be completely unpredictable. Sometimes he even forgets what he has done or said during one of his "manic" phases.

2. Artest is somewhat overrated as a defender, because neither Indiana or Sacramento were/are good defensive teams.

3. Artest's offense has a tendency to disappear when an above-average defender covers him. This is why he often chokes in playoff games. He is neither a pure shooter nor a reliable post player.

4. Comparing Stephen Jackson to Artest is laughable. There is no comparison. Jax is a bit of a malcontent who can pull it together for the right team. Jax has bad judgment and poor impulse control, but otherwise holds it together. Again, Artest is mentally ill. Jax + good intentions = championship. Artest + good intentions = Still Fucking Crazy.
Well, those Pacer teams sucked. They were far too dependent on Artest on offense and defense. If all the Spurs give up is Barry and Elson and maybe a crappy pick - it's a decent risk.

[Ghost Writer]

Exactly.

Holt's Cat has no faith in Pop and Duncan to help set expectations for Artest.

Artest has the skills to blend perfectly into the system.

The real risk is going into the playoffs without doing this trade.

[Holt's Cat]

Exactly.

Holt's Cat has no faith in Pop and Duncan to help set expectations for Artest.

I have no faith that Artest will know his role and not fuck up. Pop isn't going to coddle Artest or treat him any different than any other player. So Artest is going to find himself at the end of the bench and you just traded at least a first round pick and perhaps passed over other useful trade alternatives.




Artest has the skills to blend perfectly into the system.

The real risk is going into the playoffs without doing this trade.

rofl. Artest has a tendency to break plays, which, if you have been paying attention to the Spurs' offense, is the #1 no-no for a player on the offensive side. Dude is not as good of a fit a you make him out to be. The main attraction is that you would have him to defend perimeter oriented bigs. Of course, that is mitigated by his propensity to go manic and screw up.

Why must the Spurs subject themselves to this sideshow? For you, internet GM/bitch, you don't have to deal with the responsibility of bringing in a player who the coaching staff has to invest time with to bring him up to speed on the team's plays and integrate him with the team. That is time wasted once he manages to get his ass benched.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, of course if I had my druthers, I'd pick up Mike Miller first like LJ said -- but there could be a similar upside to an Artest deal, it's just less of a sure thing. I like the trade because it could make Pop's brand of small ball completely viable no matter whom the opponent might be.

[Ghost Writer]

Boo hoo.

We lost out on a first rounder (when's the last first rounder to stick on this team?) for a chance to get an All-Star caliber player on a rent-to-own basis.

And cut it out with the "passing on other trade opportunities" schtick. It's lame.

[Reggie Miller]

It's pretty obvious to me that many of you don't appreciate the fact that Artest REALLY IS MENTALLY ILL. You do not bring a player on board that is that erratic. I'm not saying that Artest is a bad guy. He is sick and needs help. The Spurs are not the proper forum for his road to recovering some semblance of sanity.

[Ghost Writer]

It's pretty obvious to me that many of you don't appreciate the fact that Artest REALLY IS MENTALLY ILL. You do not bring a player on board that is that erratic. I'm not saying that Artest is a bad guy. He is sick and needs help. The Spurs are not the proper forum for his road to recovering some semblance of sanity.
Um, thanks, Doc.

We're counting on getting him for less than market value because of concerns such as yours.

If it bites us, he's benched and he walks this summer.

I'm trembling with fear.

[ChumpDumper]

Nuts? Yes.

Capable of putting up 30 against the Rockets or 33 against the Suns? Also yes.

[Ghost Writer]

Nuts? Yes.

Capable of putting up 30 against the Rockets or 33 against the Suns? Also yes.
Oh, and "slowing down" McGrady and Nash on the defensive end.

Can Bowen Do That For You?

[Mr. Body]

It's pretty obvious to me that many of you don't appreciate the fact that Artest REALLY IS MENTALLY ILL. You do not bring a player on board that is that erratic. I'm not saying that Artest is a bad guy. He is sick and needs help. The Spurs are not the proper forum for his road to recovering some semblance of sanity.

He definitely is psycho. He gets driven into a rage, takes slights personally on the court, etc. In all other things, he seems to be a pretty nice guy. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems he is not an off-court distraction.

That said, when he's on, he's one of the best players in basketball. He's truly a tremendous talent in a number of ways, and not just defensively. He's a gifted player. The toggle here is whether twin strong personalities of Duncan and Pop, along with a team full of noble reserves and character guys, plus the knowledge that they do not depend on him and insist on him staying on the straight and narrow, is enough to keep a Spur Artest in line enough to make an impact. No one is advocating, I don't think, playing him 35 minutes a game. I'd imagine he'd get time, coming off the bench or whatever, but would get yanked Glenn Robinson style if he acted up. Popovich has shown a penchant, with Latrell Sprewell, for slightly psycho personalities before.

If the payment is small (Barry+Elson+pick), then by all means swing away. There is less risk involved than there seems.

[daslicer]

It's pretty obvious to me that many of you don't appreciate the fact that Artest REALLY IS MENTALLY ILL. You do not bring a player on board that is that erratic. I'm not saying that Artest is a bad guy. He is sick and needs help. The Spurs are not the proper forum for his road to recovering some semblance of sanity.

I agree with you hundred percent with you on that. Unfortunately many people fail to look at that fact of him being mentally ill and assume that if he's in a good environment that suddenly he will heal which is bs. I remember reading a few years ago an article on ESPN about his mental condition which is that he suffered from the same problems Mike Tyson and that the previous teams he was on before tried to get him to take medication to calm him down but he refused because just like Mike if he takes the medication he becomes less aggressive. The majority of you guys who want him or idiots in the sense you are ignoring his illness and substituting it as a personality problem that can be fixed which is bs.

People who are sick need help and treatment instead of putting them in a "good environment" because thats not going to mean jack sh1t when he starts going crazy again. Seriously lol you think Duncan's legacy or Pop is going to CURE his illness which is the main reason he goes crazy everywhere he has played.

I'm sick of Artest and the bs he brings he's basically this generation's version of JR Rider. A talented player that sinks every team he goes to except JR was just a druggy while Artest is mentally insane.

[Ghost Writer]

Yawn.

What's Artest done this season that's so kooky?

[Holt's Cat]

Yawn.

What's Artest done this season that's so kooky?


He managed to get himself suspended for the 1st 7 games of this season. I guess that he just 'needs his space'.

[Ghost Writer]

That was for an off-the-court incident last May.

How about this season?

[Holt's Cat]

That was for an off-the-court incident last May.

How about this season?


So when will he have another off the court incident that affects his on the court availability?

[nkdlunch]

I can imagine artest in black and white stripes

[Ghost Writer]

So when will he have another off the court incident that affects his on the court availability?
Hopefully, never.

After Rodman joined a championship infrastructure in Chicago, they won 3 rings with him.

[Holt's Cat]

Hopefully, never.

Hope? Nobody's running for president in the NBA.



After Rodman joined a championship infrastructure in Chicago, they won 3 rings with him.

Different player, different coaching staff. Jackson can handle prima donnas and nutcases. Pop's program is different. Chicago also won 3 titles after MJ played a full season again.

[Ghost Writer]

In your mind's eye, are you really that terrified of Artest hurting the Spurs playoff chances if they traded for him?

Question.

[coopdogg3]

In your mind's eye, are you really that terrified of Artest hurting the Spurs playoff chances if they traded for him?

Question.

Don't know if this question is meant for all, but in my mind - YES. I think Artest takes away more than he adds.

Obviously if the Spurs picked him up for a song, I would cheer, and hope that Artest doesn't flip out. But if the only 2 options are A) stand pat or B) Trade for Artest - I choose A.

[Reggie Miller]

Um, thanks, Doc.

We're counting on getting him for less than market value because of concerns such as yours.

If it bites us, he's benched and he walks this summer.

I'm trembling with fear.


Not my diagnosis. It's a diagnosis made by several health professionals. That's why he has a list of prescriptions as long as his arms.

You are a fool. A responsible organization cannot just ignore the fact that he is mentally ill. Imagine the potential liability issues for a moment. How would you feel if your employer assigned you to work with a nutcase, becuase it "might work out, someday."

Also, we are talking about an individual who almost single-handedly destroyed a successful franchise. (To be fair to Artest, he may have had a lot more help than most Pacers' fans are willing to admit.) Is the Spurs' organization sounder than the Pacers' organization? Almost certainly. However, find me one person who honestly thought that the Palace Brawl and resulting shakeup were real possibilities beforehand. In other words, just keep repeating "it can't happen here" over and over again. I'm sure that's a valid strategy.

[Holt's Cat]

Discussing basketball on a message board does not 'terrify' me. Discussing it with you amuses me.

Anyways, bringing on a real risk like Artest when you have a good crew together doesn't make that much sense, especially a championship level group. Plus he doesn't address a real need, like say, a 4th big who can rebound and defend.

[Holt's Cat]

Not my diagnosis. It's a diagnosis made by several health professionals. That's why he has a list of prescriptions as long as his arms.

You are a fool. A responsible organization cannot just ignore the fact that he is mentally ill. Imagine the potential liability issues for a moment. How would you feel if your employer assigned you to work with a nutcase, becuase it "might work out, someday."

Also, we are talking about an individual who almost single-handedly destroyed a successful franchise. (To be fair to Artest, he may have had a lot more help than most Pacers' fans are willing to admit.) Is the Spurs' organization sounder than the Pacers' organization? Almost certainly. However, find me one person who honestly thought that the Palace Brawl and resulting shakeup were real possibilities beforehand. In other words, just keep repeating "it can't happen here" over and over again. I'm sure that's a valid strategy.


That's what I don't get. Ghost seems to think that there are no ramifications that come with taking Artest on. Of course, he wouldn't have to be the one to coach him or play with him. All he would need to do is descend into this forum on occasion and bitch about why the Spurs aren't letting Artest out of his straitjacket and onto the court.

[Ghost Writer]

Artest can rebound and defend.

And block more shots than Elson or Oberto.

[Holt's Cat]

Artest is not what's needed.

[ElNono]

Artest can chuck more bad shots than Pop will ever allow too. He can cost you a game with an ill-advised shot, and will not take the critique easily. The only reason I would take Artest is simply so another team cannot get him, considering he's probably the guy that gives Manu the most trouble. I just don't think that justification is good enough to give away future picks.

[Ghost Writer]

Much like Kobe, shot selection improves when you play with superior talent.

[Holt's Cat]

Much like Kobe, shot selection improves when you play with superior talent.

:guffaw

[Reggie Miller]

That's what I don't get. Ghost seems to think that there are no ramifications that come with taking Artest on. Of course, he wouldn't have to be the one to coach him or play with him. All he would need to do is descend into this forum on occasion and bitch about why the Spurs aren't letting Artest out of his straitjacket and onto the court.


On top of everything else, San Antonio and Indianapolis are marginal markets. After years of exemplary behavior by the team on and off the court, a few well-publicized, major episodes have all but destroyed the Pacers as a successful business enterprise in Indiana. Fans are disgusted and staying away en masse. Indiana LOVES its basketball, yet the Pacers will have to move if this trend is not reversed, and soon.

Do you really want to take these kinds of risks with your hometown team? (Not you, Holt's Cat, it's a rhetorical question.) It reminds me of people who take laetrile for cancer: let's ingest a known poison on the offhand chance that the USDA is wrong and a damn peach pit can beat cancer. You might take that risk when you're dying, but you don't do it for kicks when you're perfectly healthy.

[Ghost Writer]

Winning solves everything.

Re-fvckin-lax.

[Holt's Cat]

It certainly did in Indiana and Sacramento.

[ChumpDumper]

On top of everything else, San Antonio and Indianapolis are marginal markets. After years of exemplary behavior by the team on and off the court, a few well-publicized, major episodes have all but destroyed the Pacers as a successful business enterprise in Indiana. Fans are disgusted and staying away en masse. Indiana LOVES its basketball, yet the Pacers will have to move if this trend is not reversed, and soon.

Do you really want to take these kinds of risks with your hometown team? (Not you, Holt's Cat, it's a rhetorical question.) It reminds me of people who take laetrile for cancer: let's ingest a known poison on the offhand chance that the USDA is wrong and a damn peach pit can beat cancer. You might take that risk when you're dying, but you don't do it for kicks when you're perfectly healthy.Once again, Indiana sucks. Maybe if they were winning they wouldn't have to be loading up on white guys to get the fans back. The Spurs are too good for Artest to ruin.

[Reggie Miller]

Once again, Indiana sucks. Maybe if they were winning they wouldn't have to be loading up on white guys to get the fans back. The Spurs are too good for Artest to ruin.


Translation = "It can't happen here!"

Just keep telling yourself that... If you repeat it long enough, it magically becomes true!

[carib]

It's all about winning

[carib]

All the concerns that fans have with players the front office careless about because it’s all about dollars and winning in professional sporting.

[ChumpDumper]

Translation = "It can't happen here!"

Just keep telling yourself that... If you repeat it long enough, it magically becomes true!So Artest has a meltdown here.

He's gone.

The Spurs go on without having to become lillywhite.


Sorry your team sucks.

[whottt]

Translation = "It can't happen here!"

Just keep telling yourself that... If you repeat it long enough, it magically becomes true!

It does when you have an experienced veteran team instead of a young up n coming team.


Huge difference there...and a difference that a lot of Spursfans have first hand experience observing...with Dennis Rodman.


He was a cancerous shit head that arguably cost the Spurs two playoff series here, but he was a huge asset to the Bulls second threepeat.


And don't say Rodman wasn't as mentally ill as Artest...he was as bad and maybe even worse. Yeah he didn't get suspended as much as Artest does, but he was 10 times the distraction and contoversy...and he'd miss key playoff games or not show up for practice, during hte playoffs.


However that changed when Rodman went to the Bulls, because it just wasn't as big of a deal in Chicago....and he was no longer this huge distraction...because the Bulls were an established veteran team that knew how to win.


At least according to Phil Jackson.



The Spurs are experienced and veteran of a team as you can get.....Artest would not be able to distract this team from it's purpose. Guys like Duncan Manu and Finley...they aren't the same as Jermaine O'Neal and Mike Bibby.

[Ghost Writer]

Alriiiiiiight, whott.

Thatta boy.

The asking price is right and Artest could be a great experiment with the ability to let him go in the offseason.

[Reggie Miller]

It does when you have an experienced veteran team instead of a young up n coming team.


Huge difference there...and a difference that a lot of Spursfans have first hand experience observing...with Dennis Rodman.


He was a cancerous shit head that arguably cost the Spurs two playoff series here, but he was a huge asset to the Bulls second threepeat.

And he was also huge for the Pistons winning two titles early in his career.



And don't say Rodman wasn't as mentally ill as Artest...he was as bad and maybe even worse. Yeah he didn't get suspended as much as Artest does, but he was 10 times the distraction and contoversy...and he'd miss key playoff games or not show up for practice, during hte playoffs.


However that changed when Rodman went to the Bulls, because it just wasn't as big of a deal in Chicago....and he was no longer this huge distraction...



The Spurs are experienced and veteran of a team as you can get.....Artest would not be able to distract this team from it's purpose.


A lot of good points, whott. I do have to agree that just cutting Artest would not decimate the Spurs.

However, I'm not saying Artest WOULD destroy the Spurs, I'm saying that the potential risk is all out of proportion to the potential reward.

Still, I do find the hubris amusing. "It can't happen here!" I wonder how many Jews in Poland, circa 1939, said the same thing?

[Ghost Writer]

However, I'm not saying Artest WOULD destroy the Spurs, I'm saying that the potential risk is all out of proportion to the potential reward. -- Reggie Miller

I feel the exact opposite and have proven why.

Barry, Elson and the first rounder are doing nothing for the team today.

[whottt]

A lot of good points, whott. I do have to agree that just cutting Artest would not decimate the Spurs.


Cut him hell...resign him and trade him. He remains easily tradeable...





However, I'm not saying Artest WOULD destroy the Spurs, I'm saying that the potential risk is all out of proportion to the potential reward.

Nah...he won't destroy a team with Robert Horry, Tim Duncan, Manu and Mike Finley on it...

He won't be asked to be a leader on this team...


This team has too many experienced veteran leaders that won't let him sidetrack the team.


Winning championships helps...the Spurs already know what it takes to win.



Still, I do find the hubris amusing. "It can't happen here!" I wonder how many Jews in Poland, circa 1939, said the same thing?


It really can't happen here...


On top of all that....hell he might actually help the Spurs ratings...because he is a draw, just like Tyson, just like Rodman.


It'll definitely be harder for the media asshats to call the Spurs boring and predictable with Artest on this team.

[Que Gee]

From what I have heard, he's going to Denver, it just hasn't been announced yet.

[Spurminator]

Hmmmm...

[Reggie Miller]

One last thought:

While I don't see Horry, Duncan, or Ginobili following Artest into the stands (as Stephen Jackson did), I'm not so sure what makes you guys think they could "control" Artest. The fact that they are mentally tougher than Jax, JO, etc. doesn't make Artest any less erratic and unpredictable.

Concrete example: Whott, if you shit your drawers at work, then scooped up a pile of feces and rubbed it into your hair, how could I stop you? Frankly, a potential problem has to be within the realm of comprehension in order to be addressed. Artest does things that just aren't on anyone's radar until he does them. That's a demonstrated fact.

[texasqb2]

How about this dream deal............

Spurs receive Ron Artest and Udonis Haslem
Kings receive Brent Barry, Matt Bonner, and Spurs 2008 1st Round Pick
Heat receive Robert Horry, Francisco Elson, Kings 2008 2nd Round Pick, Spurs 2009 2nd Round Pick

[whottt]

One last thought:

While I don't see Horry, Duncan, or Ginobili following Artest into the stands (as Stephen Jackson did), I'm not so sure what makes you guys think they could "control" Artest. The fact that they are mentally tougher than Jax, JO, etc. doesn't make Artest any less erratic and unpredictable.

Concrete example: Whott, if you shit your drawers at work, then scooped up a pile of feces and rubbed it into your hair, how could I stop you? Frankly, a potential problem has to be within the realm of comprehension in order to be addressed. Artest does things that just aren't on anyone's radar until he does them. That's a demonstrated fact.


What makes you think Artest is going to go up into the stands again? Has he done it again?


Truth is...he was trying to stay calm that night, Wallace pissed him off which he dealt with fairly well for a guy with a temper, but getting hit in the face with a beer pushed him over the edge...



Is it really that hard to understand why that set Artest off?


What would you do if you were pissed off and someone threw some beer in your face?



Mental illness?


Anyway...if that happened on the Spurs the Spurs players would go up and get Artest or block him from going into the stands...but I don't think Artest would make that mistake again. There would be someone calming him down...Mike Finley most likely.



That was a huge deal because of PR...it really wasn't that hard to understand why Artest went up into the stands...and I'd be willing to bet a few other players would do the same thing if they were pissed off and then got hit in the face with a beer.

I'd be willing to be some people in this very thread would react in a similar fashion.


There is other stuff that Artest has done that concerns me more than that Pistons ordeal...but the Spurs have gone after some guys that have done similar crap so it really isn't that big of a deal to me anymore.

I actually thought that Piston fight was pretty enjoyable...in particular that part where J O'neal owned that Piston fan.

[timvp]

I'm not too concerned with the chemistry aspect. Pop has said for a while now that the team as constructed could handle a "bad apple" if the player could play. Defensively, it'd be awesome.

Offensively is where I'm not sure Artest is a fit. He's not a ballhog but he's not a good passer and doesn't make fast decisions. And a lot of times Artest tries to do too much when the team he is on is struggling to score points. I've never seen him thrive in a situation where he was just a part of the team rather than a focal point.

I'm still on the fence but it'd be hard for me to turn down a trade that would make the Spurs have a devestating defensive unit without having to give up much value. It could work really nicely for the Spurs. Or it could blow up in their face if Artest turns out to take too many offensive touches from the Big Three.

It's a tough call.

[Ghost Writer]

Artest would not have to create as much or be the focal point and he's good in the half court.

Take a stand, timvp.

[whottt]

Offensively is where I'm not sure Artest is a fit. He's not a ballhog but he's not a good passer and doesn't make fast decisions. And a lot of times Artest tries to do too much when the team he is on is struggling to score points. I've never seen him thrive in a situation where he was just a part of the team rather than a focal point.

.


But he's never really played with a dominant bigman either...not a true one.

I think he's pretty good at hitting open threes...and he's pretty fierce when he drives to the basket...he'd definitely be the Thunder to Manu and Parker's Lightning.


We could put him on Amare, LeBron, Lamar Odom...TMac...and Artest genuinely intimidates players defensively.

I'd be most worried about him picking a stupid tech or flagrant. It'd be something the Spurs would constantly have to be on guard for in the post season...

[Holt's Cat]

To top it off, Artest's deal expires at the end of this year as he seems likely to opt out. That's pointed to as a safety valve if he doesn't work out, but what if he does, at least for the remainder of this season? Then the Spurs are almost forced to resign him. Maybe he gets two years. I think a quality performance with the Spurs would lead to someone offering him more years. So whatever plans there are for cap flexibility in a couple years would take a hit. Then, of course, you have the scenario that somehow Artest manages to be on his best behavior until you re-sign him. Then he gets bored and goes Artest and you have to eat a fair chunk of change or are getting nothing for a long term deal you signed. Yes, with some combination of Horry, Finley and Barry leaving this summer your supporting cast will take a hit, but is Artest the best to replenish that? It seems that everywhere he goes, he ends up commanding less when he leaves.

[whottt]

To top it off, Artest's deal expires at the end of this year as he seems likely to opt out. That's pointed to as a safety valve if he doesn't work out, but what if he does, at least for the remainder of this season? Then the Spurs are almost forced to resign him. Maybe he gets two years. I think a quality performance with the Spurs would lead to someone offering him more years. So whatever plans there are for cap flexibility in a couple years would take a hit. Then, of course, you have the scenario that somehow Artest manages to be on his best behavior until you re-sign him. Then he gets bored and goes Artest and you have to eat a fair chunk of change or are getting nothing for a long term deal you signed. Yes, with some combination of Horry, Finley and Barry leaving this summer your supporting cast will take a hit, but is Artest the best to replenish that? It seems that everywhere he goes, he ends up commanding less when he leaves.



The #1 immediate threat to this teams continued success is the age of and a successor to one Manu Ginobili....Artest addresses that need...not to mention the long SF(big will work).



What makes you think Artest won't take less to play here? He offered to give up part of his salary if the Kings would keep Bonzi and Adelman...


That's the best part about crazy fuckas...money isn't(always) the most important thing to them.


If he walks, he walks....it cost us the boards two favorite whipping boys in Barry and Elson...and #1 pick, and or a one of our two bigmen prospects....small price to pay for a title.


When it comes time to replace Tim Duncan...we aren't likely to be winning titles for a while, so why plan for it?


Right here and right now is when we have our best shot to win a title.



Ron Artest: Good for the Spurs. Good for the city of San Antonio :smokin

[Ghost Writer]

Nobody forces the Spurs to do anything.

The Spurs may not want him.

Artest may not want the Spurs.

The point is that you get a talented mercenary for the playoffs with no strings attached.

[Martin R]

That would be the stupidest thing we could do. Artest is a cancer that would only disrupt our team chemistry. He can play great defense and score, but his off the court issues and his tendency to lose his cool would outweigh his on court abilities.

agree 100%

[Holt's Cat]

So the Spurs have this "talented mercenary" who presumably just played well and helped you win a championship. Why are you letting him walk?

[Ghost Writer]

So the Spurs have this "talented mercenary" who presumably just played well and helped you win a championship. Why are you letting him walk?
I wouldn't.

You would.

[timvp]

To top it off, Artest's deal expires at the end of this year as he seems likely to opt out. That's pointed to as a safety valve if he doesn't work out, but what if he does, at least for the remainder of this season? Then the Spurs are almost forced to resign him. Maybe he gets two years. I think a quality performance with the Spurs would lead to someone offering him more years. So whatever plans there are for cap flexibility in a couple years would take a hit. Then, of course, you have the scenario that somehow Artest manages to be on his best behavior until you re-sign him. Then he gets bored and goes Artest and you have to eat a fair chunk of change or are getting nothing for a long term deal you signed. Yes, with some combination of Horry, Finley and Barry leaving this summer your supporting cast will take a hit, but is Artest the best to replenish that? It seems that everywhere he goes, he ends up commanding less when he leaves.Good points.

I think that if you trade for Artest it's just a four-month rental. You just can't give Artest a long-term contract. However, this scenario intrigues me:

1) Spurs buy-low on Artest (Elson, Barry, 1st?)
2) Artest is on good behavior for the rest of the season and helps the Spurs win the championship.
3) Spurs sell-high on Artest via sign-and-trade.

If Artest were to keep sane for four months, the Spurs could flip him into some nice parts that the Spurs will likely need in the offseason.

[timvp]

Take a stand, timvp.I apologize for considering more than "Will This Trade Get Us On SportsCenter?" when taking my stand.

[urunobili]

Good points.

I think that if you trade for Artest it's just a four-month rental. You just can't give Artest a long-term contract. However, this scenario intrigues me:

1) Spurs buy-low on Artest (Elson, Barry, 1st?)
2) Artest is on good behavior for the rest of the season and helps the Spurs win the championship.
3) Spurs sell-high on Artest via sign-and-trade.

If Artest were to keep sane for four months, the Spurs could flip him into some nice parts that the Spurs will likely need in the offseason.
do you TRULY think he will not alter this team's chemistry?

[T Park]

Good points.

I think that if you trade for Artest it's just a four-month rental. You just can't give Artest a long-term contract. However, this scenario intrigues me:

1) Spurs buy-low on Artest (Elson, Barry, 1st?)
2) Artest is on good behavior for the rest of the season and helps the Spurs win the championship.
3) Spurs sell-high on Artest via sign-and-trade.

If Artest were to keep sane for four months, the Spurs could flip him into some nice parts that the Spurs will likely need in the offseason.


Most likely sell high with the Knicks maybe getting back a Lee, Balkman, or someone decent on that team?

[Ghost Writer]

Good points.

I think that if you trade for Artest it's just a four-month rental. You just can't give Artest a long-term contract. However, this scenario intrigues me:

1) Spurs buy-low on Artest (Elson, Barry, 1st?)
2) Artest is on good behavior for the rest of the season and helps the Spurs win the championship.
3) Spurs sell-high on Artest via sign-and-trade.

If Artest were to keep sane for four months, the Spurs could flip him into some nice parts that the Spurs will likely need in the offseason.
Don't be p1ssy, timvp.

Your above post is sound, except for the sign-and-trade part. The Spurs would not sign Artest in good faith to flip him.

Welcome aboard the Artest 'wagon.

[Holt's Cat]

Don't be p1ssy, timvp.

Your above post is sound, except for the sign-and-trade part. The Spurs would not sign Artest in good faith to flip him.

Welcome aboard the Artest 'wagon.


A sign and trade would involve his consent.

[FromWayDowntown]

The Spurs would not sign Artest in good faith to flip him.

Why not? They did exactly that for Derek Anderson.

[T Park]

If Artest did come, best acting ability, won a ring, and then was flipped for a good wing and or big, that would make a trade like this one of the best in franchise history.

[AFBlue]

A sign and trade would involve his consent.

Trade him to NY for expiring deal of Malik Rose and one of their not-so-idiotic contracts....Chandler? Lee?!?!?!

He'd be all for a trade to NY.

[Ghost Writer]

Why not? They did exactly that for Derek Anderson.
Pod@mn you're off.

The Spurs didn't to re-sign Derek Anderson to a long term contract so he signed a long term contract with the Blazers.

May I suggest an energy drink or picking on a lesser poster.

Please.

[Holt's Cat]

Pod@mn you're off.

The Spurs didn't to re-sign Derek Anderson to a long term contract so he signed a long term contract with the Blazers.

May I suggest an energy drink or picking on a lesser poster.

Please.


That's kinda the point.

[AFBlue]

I'm honestly just amazed that we have so many damn active Artest trade threads, all of which are at least 5 pages....

This reeks of desperation.

Having said that....count me in!