Mavs' KVH (& his contract) to Heat for Shaq?

[LEONARD]

This was a trade being kicked around on the radio last night...it's just a thought and nothing more…

Think about it...it would make sense for both sides...

*Mavs get Shaq for nothing but a couch player, but it'd cost them about $40M after luxury tax.

*Heat can start to rebuild around Wade while he's in his prime with the cap room they'd have for next season (could sign somebody that opts out like Marion, Brand, etc) and still have money for other players.

Thoughts?

[Vinny Del Negro]

and the mavs are officially in desperation mode. i approve.

[Extra Stout]

This was a trade being kicked around on the radio last night...it's just a thought and nothing more…

Think about it...it would make sense for both sides...

*Mavs get Shaq for nothing but a couch player, but it'd cost them about $40M after luxury tax.

*Heat can start to rebuild around Wade while he's in his prime with the cap room they'd have for next season (could sign somebody that opts out like Marion, Brand, etc) and still have money for other players.

Thoughts?
Well... Shaq provides some vestige of a low post threat, but I don't see how he really solves any of the Mavericks' problems. Their problems are that their defense isn't good enough so far, and that Dirk Nowitzki is playing scared. Shaq solves neither problem.

[LEONARD]

Well... Shaq provides some vestige of a low post threat, but I don't see how he really solves any of the Mavericks' problems. Their problems are that their defense isn't good enough so far, and that Dirk Nowitzki is playing scared. Shaq solves neither problem.

You're right...why would they want to add Shaq without giving up any players on their roster?? :clap

Dirk is playing scared sounds like your opinion to me...and Shaq would provide another leader (if not THE leader) that the Mavs need...so maybe he does help solve your opinion of the problem...

I'd rather have Shaq in there when the Mavs play the Spurs than Dampier or Diop. Who'd cover Shaq? Tim or Oberto? Then who covers Dirk?

Mavs + Shaq > Current Mavs

[Extra Stout]

You're right...why would they want to add Shaq without giving up any players on their roster?? :clap

Dirk is playing scared sounds like your opinion to me...and Shaq would provide another leader (if not THE leader) that the Mavs need...so maybe he does help solve your opinion of the problem...

I'd rather have Shaq in there when the Mavs play the Spurs than Dampier or Diop. Who'd cover Shaq? Tim or Oberto? Then who covers Dirk?

Mavs + Shaq > Current Mavs
I think you're falling in love with the memory of what Shaq was, rather than the reality of what Shaq is.

[JamStone]

Except Dallas doesn't have KVH or his contract on their payroll anymore.

[Holt's Cat]

Shaq is only good for an 8-21 record today. In the East.

That said, getting him for KVH wouldn't be a bad situation, but I think even Cuban would balk at the pay versus performance Shaquille is providing today.

[LEONARD]

I think you're falling in love with the memory of what Shaq was, rather than the reality of what Shaq is.

No, I'm not. I know what he is and what risks are there.

28 mpg, 14 ppg, 8 rpg, 1.7 blk

That's what he is...


Except Dallas doesn't have KVH or his contract on their payroll anymore.

wrong


Shaq is only good for an 8-21 record today. In the East.

That said, getting him for KVH wouldn't be a bad situation, but I think even Cuban would balk at the pay versus performance Shaquille is providing today.

I don't see the Heat's record having anything to do with the prospect of adding him to the Mavs...or a reason not to...

[ShoogarBear]

I'd rather have Shaq in there when the Mavs play the Spurs than Dampier or Diop. Who'd cover Shaq? Tim or Oberto? Then who covers Dirk?
Since neither Duncan nor Oberto are expected to cover Dirk for any significant amounts of time, this is not a problem


Mavs + Shaq > Current MavsIf you say so. They'd have to completely disrupt their current makeup in order to feed Shaq's still rampant ego. Personally, I think this might be the only move they could make that would be worse than signing Chris Webber.

[Cry Havoc]

You're right...why would they want to add Shaq without giving up any players on their roster?? :clap

Dirk is playing scared sounds like your opinion to me...and Shaq would provide another leader (if not THE leader) that the Mavs need...so maybe he does help solve your opinion of the problem...

I'd rather have Shaq in there when the Mavs play the Spurs than Dampier or Diop. Who'd cover Shaq? Tim or Oberto? Then who covers Dirk?

Mavs + Shaq > Current Mavs

Yes, because the Mavs need a 340 pound guy who can't run the court or even rotate on defense right now.

If Shaq would be the difference maker for the Mavs, why are the Heat mired in LAST place in their own division right now? He's horrible. He has no mobility. He would choke the Mavs on offense and gut them on defense. He recently nearly set an NBA record for number of consecutive foul-outs. Not the sign of someone playing good defense.

And don't forget that this would DESTROY the Mavs cap situation for the next 2 years.

[picnroll]

Shaq is totally shot. His deterioration is visible from one game to the next. So I'd say go for it Mavs.

[JamStone]

wrong



Try again. Keith Van Horn's last NBA contract ended 2005-06. He did not get another one.

[Extra Stout]

I checked... JamStone is correct. KVH is a free agent.

[ChumpDumper]

Try again. Keith Van Horn's last NBA contract ended 2005-06. He did not get another one.:lol The only people who know less about the Mavs than mavfans are the mavmedia.

[Extra Stout]

Maybe the Heat would agree to a Shaq-for-Roy Tarpley trade?

[LEONARD]

There is still some connection with KVH's contract, at least according to the radio guys that discussed this possibility last night. I'd like to think they know what they're talking about since they do post-game shows....

[ChumpDumper]

How can the Mavs possibly carry sixteen players?

They can't.

[ShoogarBear]

How can the Mavs possibly carry sixteen players?
https://www.nbrpa.com/news/featurearchive/images/finley_000.jpg

[Holt's Cat]

Well, Shaq upheld his part of the bargain and brought a title to South Beach.

Now he's enjoying South Beach, apparently.

[ShoogarBear]

Well, Shaq upheld his part of the bargain and brought a title to South Beach.

Now he's enjoying South Beach, apparently.But not the South Beach Diet.

[Holt's Cat]

https://www.nbrpa.com/news/featurearchive/images/finley_000.jpg




http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2006/07/13/mcmahon.jpg

Hi-OOOO!

[ChumpDumper]

https://www.nbrpa.com/news/featurearchive/images/finley_000.jpg
So obviously they can trade him too. Alert the Dallas media!

[monosylab1k]

I'd like to think they know what they're talking about since they do post-game shows....
If you're listening to the Ticket postgame show, I wouldn't trust anything Ben & Skin says about the Mavs. They're advertising salesman who sucked enough dick to get a show on The Ticket. I thought it was pretty obvious from hearing their opinions on anything that they have no clue what they're talking about ever.

and if you heard it on ESPN radio....well....there ya go...

[Bruno]

Mavs can do a S&T with KVH.
KVH for Shaq work cba wise (Mavs jsut need to waive someone before doing the trade). However, I'm not sure the league will agree with that because it doesn't respect the spirit of the CBA.

[JamStone]

I'm not a CBA expert, but I'm under the impression that you cannot trade a player on a one-year deal. So, first the Mavs would still have to have retained KVH's rights (do they ever expire if a player does not officially retire?) in order to pay him a big enough salary to match Shaq's. And, then I believe it would have to be at least a two year contract, perhaps making the second year an option year. Either way, is Miami that desperate to get rid of Shaq to get his salary off one year earlier? Maybe they are. I'm still not sure the Mavs can even do any of that under the most recent CBA.

[Bruno]

When you do a S&T, the new contract must be at least three years long but only the first year must be guaranteed.

[LEONARD]

This is what I was told by the guy that proposed the trade...

"They never renounced his rights and he's never filed with the NBA for retirement.

You can increase a player's salary up to 20% without him becoming BYC. That menas they can sign him to a first year salary around 17 million for trade purposes.

Also, only the first year of the mandatory three year deal for a sign and trade is guaranteed."

if that's right, then I guess a few people in this thread can eat shit... :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Not really. You were acting as if KVH was currently under contract.

Anyway, even Mark Cuban isn't going to pay $120 million for an old, run-down Shaq.

[LEONARD]

Not really. You were acting as if KVH was currently under contract.

Anyway, even Mark Cuban isn't going to pay $120 million for an old, run-down Shaq.

Ah, of course...nevermind the fact that I said there was still a connection with KVH that would allow this. I'm sorry if my initial wording was off. You ripped Mavs fans AND their media for not knowing anything, yet you were wrong...oops...

Shaq would cost the Mavs about $40M...what are you talking about?

[JamStone]

It still doesn't make sense for Miami to pay KVH over $15-16 million just to get rid of Shaq. It just doesn't. And, KVH is NOT on Dallas' payroll. And, the whole idea has to be regarded as some sort of way to circumvent the CBA and trades still have to be approved by the NBA. It wouldn't be approved. It was just a silly idea to begin with that will never happen.

[JamStone]

Ah, of course...nevermind the fact that I said there was still a connection with KVH that would allow this. I'm sorry if my initial wording was off. You ripped Mavs fans AND their media for not knowing anything, yet you were wrong...oops...

Shaq would cost the Mavs about $40M...what are you talking about?

Of course when I stated that KVH and his contract were not on Dallas' payroll, you simply said "wrong." Which of course it was not wrong.

[LEONARD]

Of course when I stated that KVH and his contract were not on Dallas' payroll, you simply said "wrong." Which of course it was not wrong.

I was wrong about that...I wasn't sure of the technicalities of everything but didn't feel like typing more than "wrong" :lol

I knew he wasn't on their current payroll though...
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm

but also knew that they wouldn't dedicate a segment to this potential trade if it was impossible...

[ChumpDumper]

Ah, of course...nevermind the fact that I said there was still a connection with KVH that would allow this. I'm sorry if my initial wording was off. You ripped Mavs fans AND their media for not knowing anything, yet you were wrong...oops...Nope, I said he wasn't under contract. I was right.


Shaq would cost the Mavs about $40M...what are you talking about?He has a three year contract. Did you not know about that?

[LEONARD]

Nope, I said he wasn't under contract. I was right.

He has a three year contract. Did you not know about that?

I'm aware...how are you coming up with $120M though?

after I said there was still a connection that could make this possible you said otherwise...WRONG :ihit

[JamStone]

I guess the idea is plausible. But, I just don't think it's realistic. And, again, here is the part of the CBA that would basically allow Stern and the NBA offices to reject the trade due to it essentially trying to circumvent the CBA.


"87. Can teams find loopholes in the CBA and make trades that were never intended to be allowed?

The CBA has a general prohibition on circumvention which states that the rules exist to preserve the benefit derived by the teams and players, and that nobody shall do anything to defeat or circumvent the intent of the agreement. The league can use this prohibition to disallow a trade that they feel circumvents the CBA, even though that trade is not specifically prohibited by the agreement."

[Bruno]

Cuban has said he has ended with the model of spending tons of money to try to win. With the luxury tax, Shaq will cost Mavs more than $100M.
And The nba FO will have a hard time approving a trade where a min-like player get $18M.

[LEONARD]

It's just something to talk/think about...message board fodder... :lol

[ChumpDumper]

I'm aware...how are you coming up with $120M though?Do you know about the luxury tax?


after I said there was still a connection that could make this possible you said otherwise...WRONG :ihitI asked if he was currently on the Mavs roster.

Is he?

[LEONARD]

Do you know about the luxury tax?


No, what's that? lol

The way it was discussed last night it would cost them $40M after the luxury tax...maybe they just meant for the 1st year...


I asked if he was currently on the Mavs roster.

Is he?

You said...


How can the Mavs possibly carry sixteen players? They can't.

which I took as meaning that since they can't carry sixteen they couldn't attempt this...

[ChumpDumper]

It meant KVH is not on the roster. This new contract talk is pie in the sky. I don't think Randy Pfund wants to be remembered as the guy who traded Shaq for Keith Van Horn.

[ChumpDumper]

Now if we're talking KVH and Dampier, I don't see how Miami could say no. :)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

There is still some connection with KVH's contract, at least according to the radio guys that discussed this possibility last night. I'd like to think they know what they're talking about since they do post-game shows....

the Mavs radio guys also blame not winning a title in 2006 on the refs and the league instead of the incredibly nutless leadership of Dirk and AJ's coaching in that series.

I guess what I'm trying to say is they don't exactly have the most credibility.

[LEONARD]

the Mavs radio guys also blame not winning a title in 2006 on the refs and the league instead of the incredibly nutless leadership of Dirk and AJ's coaching in that series.

I guess what I'm trying to say is they don't exactly have the most credibility.

Who are you referring to exactly??

[~~Ice Man 2000~~]

KVH owns Shaq!

[Shank]

I guess what I'm trying to say is they don't exactly have the most credibility.

We should be listening to Mike Taylor for all of our Spurs news, I guess.

[Trainwreck2100]

We should be listening to Mike Taylor for all of our Spurs news, I guess.

That will be difficult considering he barely ever talks about them

[Armando]

Why would Cuban even consider this trade?

[exstatic]

There is still some connection with KVH's contract, at least according to the radio guys that discussed this possibility last night. I'd like to think they know what they're talking about since they do post-game shows....
Don't make that mistake. Most radio "experts" couldn't find their ass with two hands, a map, and a flashlight. They get paid to incite discussions and draw listeners, not to be correct.

Neither Patricia's site or RealGM have any connection between KVH and the Mavs, probably because there isn't one.

[Shank]

Don't make that mistake. Most radio "experts" couldn't find their ass with two hands, a map, and a flashlight. They get paid to incite discussions and draw listeners, not to be correct.

Neither Patricia's site or RealGM have any connection between KVH and the Mavs, probably because there isn't one.

Leonard's been right the whole time. Maybe you'd rather take the word of Marc Stein, then?

--------------------
12/7

5. Do the Mavs actually have enough to entice New Jersey?

Yes. The sticking point in a straight two-team swap would be Josh Howard -- Howard would be the first player New Jersey asks for and the guy Dallas is apt to deem untouchable a la Bynum -- but Dallas has two other key pieces to get the conversation cranked up: Devin Harris, as the promising young point guard to replace Kidd, and the ability to create a lucrative expiring contract to provide salary-cap relief and make the trade math work by giving a three-year deal (with only the first year guaranteed) to the unofficially retired Keith Van Horn.

Harris is a Mark Cuban favorite and a proven nuisance to San Antonio as Dallas' answer to Tony Parker. But Harris is not an Avery Johnson favorite and, after a promising start to the season, is again struggling to run the team to the demanding coach's specifications. So …

Would New Jersey take Harris, Jason Terry, Van Horn's cap-friendly deal and future draft considerations for Kidd? Would Dallas part with Harris and Howard for Kidd? Probably not in either case. Yet even in three- or four-team scenarios, it's difficult to imagine New Jersey getting back a better young heir to Kidd than Harris, who could probably use a fresh start as much as any Mav.
---------------


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-071208-09

[Holmes_Fans]

Ha, some guy on ESPN was saying a few days ago that Shaq still had 2 seasons left in him

[m33p0]

whatever happened to van horn anyway?

[Shank]

whatever happened to van horn anyway?

He pretty much just bailed with his family and moved to Colorado. Just hanging out, being white and spotting up to clank some open 3s. Heard he and Blair Rasmussen were thinking of investing in a few Waffle House franchises together. He loves pilates and long walks on the beach with his dog, Scrappy.

[dirk4mvp]

KVH was supposed to be the next Bird.

[exstatic]

Let's get the thing straight: there is no current connection btwn the Mavs and KVH. They own his Bird rights, but they also own Roy Tarpley's, and he was offered (as validly and likely) as the alternative trade bait for Shaq in this very thread. They could throw in Ro Blackman and Mark Aguirre's rights, too. Why not, if we're talking stupid former player Bird rights resurrection trades?

[jochhejaam]

Shaq is only good for an 8-21 record today. In the East.
No reasonable person would argue that Shaq is little more than a shell of his former self, but drop the "In the East" arguement, they're 86-88 this year against the West.

Yes, parity of the Conferences has come to the NBA.

[ShoogarBear]

They could throw in Ro Blackman and Mark Aguirre's rights, too. Unless the Mavs did a sympathy end-of-career signing I don't know about, no they couldn't.

[Shank]

Let's get the thing straight: there is no current connection btwn the Mavs and KVH.

You sure about that?

[LEONARD]

Let's get the thing straight: there is no current connection btwn the Mavs and KVH.

WRONG