Five Reasons To Elect Alonzo Mourning To The HOF

[duncan228]

This is a piece from The Weekly Countdown by Ian Thomsen on SI.com.

I always liked Mourning, but I'm not sure about the HOF arguement.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ian_thomsen/01/11/weekly.countdown/index.html

5 Reasons to elect Alonzo Mourning to the Hall of Fame

5. He played long enough. It will require a complicated argument to install Mourning in the Hall, because his career was cut short at its peak when he was diagnosed with a life-threatening kidney disease at 30. Nonetheless, he still has played 838 games and 11 full NBA seasons (in addition to four seasons of 37 games or fewer), which exceeds the timelines of Hall of Fame centers like Willis Reed (650 games), Neil Johnston (516) and Dave Cowens (766).

4. His humanitarian work. What does this have to do with the Hall of Fame? Plenty, I say. Mourning is one of the most charitably minded stars in the history of the league, and his work on behalf of kidney research and community services in Miami and beyond elevated the NBA when it was desperate for good publicity.

3. His accomplishments on the court. If Mourning indeed retires at 37 after undergoing major knee surgery last month, he'll leave with two Defensive Player of the Year awards, gold medals in the FIBA World Championships and the Olympics and an NBA championship he won with Miami in 2005-06. Those achievements cross the threshold.

2. His career before his illness. It's important to consider who Mourning was -- and what he appeared certain to accomplish -- before his illness. In his first eight seasons, he averaged 21.1 points, 10.1 rebounds and 3.1 blocks. In a full 15-season career, he could have become one of the top five shot-blockers (he stands No. 10 today) with a chance at surpassing 20,000 points, which in combination with his other achievements would have assured his election to the Hall.

1. His comeback. Mourning's recovery from focal glomerulosclerosis, a disease that scars the kidneys and impairs them from filtering bodily wastes, puts him over the top. After Mourning underwent his kidney transplant as a 33-year-old in 2003, he was barely able to bench-press 20-pound dumbbells. He rebuilt his body while taking more than 20 pills per day, including cholesterol and blood-pressure medications to counteract side effects of his antirejection drugs, and during practices and games he wore a plastic shield reinforced with foam padding to protect his kidney.

While he created some bad feelings by forcing his way out of New Jersey and Toronto on his way back to Miami after the transplant, I tended to see those moves in the context of Mourning's extraordinary effort to turn his recovery into a meaningful experience. In this case, I would argue that the end justified the means: He was a team leader and crucial player in Miami's 2005-06 championship season. It is a story that belongs in the Hall of Fame.

[Obstructed_View]

I certainly hope no player ever gets extra consideration for the hall of fame because of his charity work. Give him the Nobel prize if you want to, but don't fuck with the integrity of the hall of fame.

[Spurminator]

Reasons 5, 4, and 1 are nice and all, but irrelevant to the HOF. 2 and 3 alone aren't enough.

Sorry Zo.

[stretch]

I think he definitely deserves to be in the HOF. The dude put up HOF level stats before his injury. He made a comeback and still put up solid numbers and was a MAJOR contributer on the 2006 Heat team. He played with as much heart and determination as ANYONE that has played basketball. And he played for the right reasons. I have always been a huge Zo fan, and I think he should be in.

[monosylab1k]

I know he rode the D-Wade Whistle Train to a title and all, but has everyone forgotten that in his prime, Zo was about as big a choker as there ever was? Dirk's clutchness is Jordan-like in comparison.

[Findog]

HGH....anabolic steroids....Toronto Raptors. Fuck this guy.

[Flo-Rida]

I think he definitely deserves to be in the HOF. The dude put up HOF level stats before his injury. He made a comeback and still put up solid numbers and was a MAJOR contributer on the 2006 Heat team. He played with as much heart and determination as ANYONE that has played basketball. And he played for the right reasons. I have always been a huge Zo fan, and I think he should be in.
agreed

[Findog]

Can we get a fist-pump after the Heat successfully inbound the ball? Or how about when he sets a pick?

[Medvedenko]

Too many fist pumps and flexing...I say no...plus screwing the raps and nets goes down as all time punk moves.

[monosylab1k]

Too many fist pumps and flexing...I say know...plus screwing the raps and nets goes down as all time punk moves.
he also gave his word to sign with Dallas and then pulled a Carlos Boozer.

[JamStone]

I think Zo is right on the fence of in or out. I admit I don't like the guy as a player for his on the court antics, but before the injury, he was well on his way to a HOF worthy career. But, is that enough? Should Grant Hill also be considered then since he made a comeback?

Also, if Zo's a HOFer with his career, is Ben Wallace? Ben Wallace has four DPOYs and he was actually a starter and a big reason for the Pistons 2004 NBA title? I think Ben might be borderline also, but I actually don't believe he is.

It's a tough call on Zo.

[Obstructed_View]

"David Robinson shies away from contact."

Fuck Alonzo Mourning.

:)

[Flight3107]

1 Reason not to elect Alonzo Mourning to the Hall of Fame

1. He is Alonzo Mourning

[FromWayDowntown]

I consider Alonzo Mourning a very, very good player and I truly admire his good deeds off the court and his comeback as a player. With that said, I don't think he's got the resume to reach the Hall of Fame, particularly because the Basketball Hall of Fame is historically a very difficult place for NBA players to reach. I've posted this before, but by my count there are only 79 NBA players who've ever reached the Hall of Fame and of those guys, 42 were in the NBA's 50 Greatest Players in 1997 (the other 8 of the top 50 -- Ewing, Jordan, Malone, Olajuwon, O'Neal, Pippen, Robinson, Stockton -- haven't become eligible yet). That leaves only 37 players in the history of the league who have been considered good enough to make the Hall of Fame without having been good enough to be in the Top 50. That's a very small number of players if you consider that covers the course of NBA history.

While Zo has had an excellent career, I don't know that I think its quite good enough to make him one of those players. With that said, though, I suspect that 'Zo, the good and tough guy, will find his way to Springfield (frankly, I think Grant Hill will get there as well).

[JamStone]

I've posted this before, but by my count there are only 79 NBA players who've ever reached the Hall of Fame ...

It includes ABA and I assume a few international, a couple female players, and maybe college players as well, but there are 134 players in the Hall of Fame. I'd bet well over 100 are NBA players.

http://www.hoophall.com/halloffamers/bhof-halloffamers-category.html#players

[MONTENEGRINO]

I certainly hope no player ever gets extra consideration for the hall of fame because of his charity work. Give him the Nobel prize if you want to, but don't fuck with the integrity of the hall of fame.
Must support this. :toast

[m33p0]

dennis johnson, who almost single-handedly won seattle supersonics' only championship in 1979 isn't in the hall of fame. why would mourning be inducted?

[baseline bum]

He was a pretty dominant player in his prime (2nd in MVP voting in 99, and 3rd in '00); certainly better than Ewing (a HOF lock) or Robert Parish (a HOFer), for instance. He's a bit borderline since he only had the 8 HOF level seasons (before the transplant), but the fact that he was an excellent player on both sides of the floor make me give him the nod for the HOF (and likewise a snub to Webber and Hill).

[SpursDynasty]

I think the Dallas fans in this thread are still upset that Alonzo blocked a couple of Dallas Mavs from putting up weak ass shots in Game 6 of the Finals.

"Blocked by Mourning!"

[Armando]

dennis johnson, who almost single-handedly won seattle supersonics' only championship in 1979 isn't in the hall of fame. why would mourning be inducted?


Well the Sonics are to blame for that as well as Boston. You can not hold that against Mourning. He should be in the Hall. I am sure there are players already in that are less deserving.

[ambchang]

Because he is the first player to screw three franchises (Hornets, Nets and Raptors) royally, and helped embarrass the Dream Team in merely its 2nd edition.

[duncan228]

dennis johnson, who almost single-handedly won seattle supersonics' only championship in 1979 isn't in the hall of fame.

Why isn't Dennis Johnson in the HOF? He was the MVP of that Seattle Title, he won 2 more with Boston, Boston retired his number.
Is it because of the incident in 1997?
(This is just the relevant piece of an article that came out after he died.)

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/02/24/the_man_in_dennis_johnson/

Johnson, who died Thursday of a heart attack at 52, had a basketball intelligence that seemed destined for a head coaching job. By most accounts, he took himself off the fast track by being arrested for grabbing his wife's throat, threatening her with a knife, and threatening one of his sons in their Orlando home in 1997.

Johnson was also much talked about as a candidate for the Basketball Hall of Fame.

"If someone is a convicted felon," Hall of Fame president Joe O'Brien said at the time, "we would eliminate them from consideration."

We never heard much about this from his wife, Donna. She did not file charges. But one must figure she was strong in the face of Johnson's fury. The police report said she told him, "What are you going to do, kill me? Go ahead."

Johnson apparently tried to kill the beast within himself. In the following years, he pleaded to anyone who would listen that he went to counseling and repeatedly apologized to his wife and family.

He told the Los Angeles Times that he "needed to correct myself." He understood how to correct the cost to himself professionally. He got on basketball's version of the warehouse forklift. He died a minor-league coach.

Johnson told the Globe's Bob Ryan in 2000, "People say, 'Why didn't she leave you?' It wasn't that simple. You've got to look at it this way: 22 years invested in a marriage vs. 10 very bad minutes. I knew the next year was going to be bad, and I knew it would be at least that long before I worked again, but I decided I'd have to face the music. I did my counseling. And I never hid. . . . I tried my best to repair the damage I did."

That still leaves Johnson -- like most human beings -- short of sainthood. But it sounds better than politicians who say they take responsibility without showing how they did. It's a lot better than O.J. Simpson, who tried to peddle the book "If I Did It" about the murder of his former wife, for which he was acquitted, and has paid only a fraction of a $33.5 million civil judgment to his former wife's family.

In a nation where nearly a quarter of women, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, experience violence from an intimate partner sometime in their lives, it is important if Johnson did turn his 10 bad minutes into nearly 10 more years of a healthier marriage before his death. He never made the Hall of Fame. But NBA commissioner David Stern Thursday hailed Johnson as "a man of extraordinary character."

Only Donna Johnson knows for sure. If she agrees with Stern, it is because her husband kept coming to the game.

[monosylab1k]

Because he is the first player to screw three franchises (Hornets, Nets and Raptors)
four. Mavericks too.

[monosylab1k]

I think the Dallas fans in this thread are still upset that Alonzo blocked a couple of Dallas Mavs from putting up weak ass shots in Game 6 of the Finals.

"Blocked by Mourning!"
It has nothing to do with that. Learn your NBA history fuckhead.

[Armando]

Because he is the first player to screw three franchises (Hornets, Nets and Raptors) royally, and helped embarrass the Dream Team in merely its 2nd edition.


He did not screw anybody over. If those teams really wanted him guess what he would not have gone anywhere. The Nets traded him for Vince Carter and a pack of gum I think they made out well. The Raptors really were not going to play him much since they were developing Bosh at the time.

[m33p0]

Why isn't Dennis Johnson in the HOF? He was the MVP of that Seattle Title, he won 2 more with Boston, Boston retired his number.
Is it because of the incident in 1997?
(This is just the relevant piece of an article that came out after he died.)

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/02/24/the_man_in_dennis_johnson/

.... By most accounts, he took himself off the fast track by being arrested for grabbing his wife's throat, threatening her with a knife, and threatening one of his sons in their Orlando home in 1997.

Johnson was also much talked about as a candidate for the Basketball Hall of Fame.

"If someone is a convicted felon," Hall of Fame president Joe O'Brien said at the time, "we would eliminate them from consideration."
.....

well, that doesn't help. i didn't know about that one. i really don't know anything about a player's life outside of basketball.

thanks for the heads up.

[exstatic]

"David Robinson shies away from contact."

Fuck Alonzo Mourning.

:)
Did he shy away from hanging 56 on your ass, 'Zo?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The Admiral was awesome.......Alonzo, not so much.

[FromWayDowntown]

It includes ABA and I assume a few international, a couple female players, and maybe college players as well, but there are 134 players in the Hall of Fame. I'd bet well over 100 are NBA players.

http://www.hoophall.com/halloffamers/bhof-halloffamers-category.html#players

I went back and checked and my number was off, but by no more than 3. There are, by my count, 52 "players" enshrined in the Hall of Fame who never played in the NBA:

Tom Barlow
John Beckman
Sergei Belov
Carol Blazejowski
Bernard Borgmann
Joseph Brennan
Kresmir Cosic
Joan Crawford
Denise Curry
Drazen Dalipagic
Forest DeBernardi
Henry Dehnert
Anne Donovan
Paul Endacott
Bud Foster
Marty Friedman
Laddie Gale
Pop Gates
Robert Gruenig
Vic Hanson
Lusia Harris-Stewart
Marques Haynes
Nat Holman
Chuck Hyatt
William Johnson
Edward Krause
Bob Kurland
Joe Lapchick
Nancy Lieberman
Hank Luisetti
Hortencia Marcari
Branch McCracken
Jack McCracken
Bobby McDermott
Dino Meneghin
Ann Meyers
Cheryl Miller
Chuck Murphy
Harlan Page
John Roosma
John Russell
Ernest Schmidt
John Schommer
Barney Sedran
Uljana Semjonova
Christian Steinmetz
John Thompson
Robert Vandiver
Ed Wachter
Nera White
Lynette Woodard
John Wooden

That makes the total number of NBA players in the Hall roughly 82, only 40 of whom didn't make the 50 Greatest Players list.

Perhaps more telling of the exclusivity of the Hall, I think, is the fact that since 2000, only 12 players with NBA ties have been enshrined: Bob McAdoo, Isiah Thomas, Moses Malone, Drazen Petrovic, Magic Johnson, James Worthy, Robert Parish, Maurice Stokes, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Joe Dumars, and Dominique Wilkins. Petrovic is in primarily for his international accomplishments and Stokes is the tragic story of a great player who left the game far too soon. Of the other 10, only McAdoo, Wilkins, and Dumars weren't on the 50 Greatest list. For whatever it's worth, McAdoo and Wilkins each made the unofficial Next 10 in 2006.

My sole point is to say that the Basketball Hall of Fame has been, for whatever reason, far more exclusive than inclusive when it comes to NBA players. That's not to say conclusively that Zo won't get in, just that things are probably going to have to loosen up a bit for him to get in.

[ambchang]

He did not screw anybody over. If those teams really wanted him guess what he would not have gone anywhere. The Nets traded him for Vince Carter and a pack of gum I think they made out well. The Raptors really were not going to play him much since they were developing Bosh at the time.

Read your history books, he acted like a jerk, went to the Heat because he didn't want to share the spotlight with Larry Johnson in Charlotte.
He was involved in an ugly brawl with the Knicks in the playoffs, costing the Heat a chance to advance.
Found out he had kidney problems with the Heat, the Heat stuck with him, but he elected to sign with NJN once he realized the Heat has no chance to contend.
Pulled the same trick on NJN once he realized the Nets had no chance to contend, demanded a trade, went to the Raptors, refused to sign and got $10 mil from it because he didn't want to go to a rebuilding team.
You actually think the Raptors were trying to trade away their franchise player (another jerk) for a player they had to buyout for $10 mil? Yes the Raptors were royally stupid to cave in, but Mourning screwed them up royally.

[CubanMustGo]

For what it's worth, the folks at basketballreference.com have a formula they use to calculate likely HOFers. Right now Mourning falls a bit short, which is where I would put him. A very good, not all-time great NBA player.

http://www.databasebasketball.com/leaders/leadershof.htm


This formula provides a handy guide for rating a player's HOF chances. It is NOT meant to be a way to compare players of different eras or even of similar eras, but instead is based on specific stats and awards which seem to push a player towards HOF induction. The best way to get into the HOF is to win an MVP. Every NBA player who has won an MVP is in the HOF. One thing you will notice is that good young players tend to jump out to a quick pace. This score is not cumulative, so a player's score can decrease after bad or average seasons

HOF Monitor Scores of current or not yet eligible players (Likely HOFer > 135)

1. Michael Jordan 731
2. Karl Malone 501
3. Tim Duncan 431
4. Shaquille O'neal 362
5. Steve Nash 297
6. David Robinson 289
7. Kevin Garnett 269
8. Allen Iverson 241
9. Dirk Nowitzki 234
10. Kobe Bryant 212
11. Jason Kidd 207
12. John Stockton 194
13. Scottie Pippen 189
14. Gary Payton 173

15. Chris Webber 139
16. Tracy Mcgrady 132
17. Tim Hardaway 130
18. Reggie Miller 130
19. Anfernee Hardaway 125
20. Horace Grant 121
21. LeBron James 119
22. Alonzo Mourning 118
23. Mark Jackson 117
24. Latrell Sprewell 116
25. Paul Pierce 116
26. Sam Cassell 115
27. Grant Hill 115
28. Rod Strickland 113
29. Ray Allen 113
30. Vince Carter 111
31. Stephon Marbury 111
32. Elton Brand 110
33. Dikembe Mutombo 109
34. Kevin Willis 108
35. Charles Oakley 107
36. Shawn Marion 107
37. Vlade Divac 105
38. Shawn Kemp 104
39. Eddie Jones 101
40. Shareef Abdur-rahim 99
41. Derrick Coleman 98
42. Steve Francis 97
43. Andre Miller 97
44. Antoine Walker 95
45. Dwyane Wade 94
46. Glen Rice 94
47. Mike Bibby 94
48. Nick Van Exel 93
49. Rasheed Wallace 93
50. Clifford Robinson 93