Smoking in the workplace - rights vs responsibilities

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Which is more important, the right of workers to smoke in the workplace, or the rights of other workers to clean air in their workplace?

Put another way, is your right to smoke in the workplace more important than your responsibility not to impose that smoke upon your colleagues?

Anyway, I hope lots of people vote because I'm really interested in rights versus responsibilities, and that's exactly what this issue boils down to.

[Fillmoe]

i thought we already had a thread about this.....

[Fillmoe]

gqS9eWNmAZU

[midgetonadonkey]

People need to quit being such big pussies and quit crying because other people smoke. As long as they aren't smoking in the same office and they go outside to smoke it's nobody else's business.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

People need to quit being such big pussies and quit crying because other people smoke. As long as they aren't smoking in the same office and they go outside to smoke it's nobody else's business.

Absolutely! I'm not objecting to smoking, I'm objecting to smoking IN THE WORKPLACE. Why do people find that so hard to understand? Is the distinction too subtle?

[Fillmoe]

you could smoke dicks for all i care, as long as you ain't doing it in front of me....

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

i thought we already had a thread about this.....

We did, but I wanted to put up a poll, specifically to see whether the rights of the individual or responsibilities to others in a social situation (ie. the workplace) come out ahead, because that's basically what this issue is about.

[midgetonadonkey]

Absolutely! I'm not objecting to smoking, I'm objecting to smoking IN THE WORKPLACE. Why do people find that so hard to understand? Is the distinction too subtle?

What the hell do you mean in the workplace? Do you mean in an office right next to you? If it's allowed by the workplace than there is nothing for you to bitch about. If I could smoke inside, I would, regardless of what my coworkers said.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

you could smoke dicks for all i care, as long as you ain't doing it in front of me....

Exactly! I agree entirely! The problem is, people can't escape their workplace - they have to go there! See the issue?

[midgetonadonkey]

The standard is set by the employers. If my bosses say it's cool than it's cool. If not then I go outside. As simple as that.

[ashbeeigh]

What the hell do you mean in the workplace? Do you mean in an office right next to you? If it's allowed by the workplace than there is nothing for you to bitch about. If I could smoke inside, I would, regardless of what my coworkers said.

for once I agree with the Rev. I mean, you choose where to work, so that's your bad, not mine if I choose to smoke by you...if it's allowed.

/thread.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

What the hell do you mean in the workplace? Do you mean in an office right next to you? If it's allowed by the workplace than there is nothing for you to bitch about. If I could smoke inside, I would, regardless of what my coworkers said.

In the workplace = in the office/store/factory/garage/whatever.

Why would anyone care if you go outside to have a smoke? Why would anyone object to that? It is illegal to smoke in the workplace in Australia, so people go outside.

The issue is smoking in enclosed spaces which forces an individual's smoke on their workmates and thus exposes them to the risks of passive smoking.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

for once I agree with the Rev. I mean, you choose where to work, so that's your bad, not mine if I choose to smoke by you...if it's allowed.

/thread.

Wow, really?

Your argument makes little sense because when you get the job you don't know whether you be sitting next to colleagues who smoke or not.

"that's your bad" - that the person next to you chooses to smoke!? No it's not, it's a decision made by them that they are forcing upon you, you have no choice in the matter. It is an infringement of your right not to inhale their smoke.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion.

[Pistons < Spurs]

In the workplace = in the office/store/factory/garage/whatever.

Why would anyone care if you go outside to have a smoke? Why would anyone object to that? It is illegal to smoke in the workplace in Australia, so people go outside.


Non smokers complain about that all the time because the 'outside' where smoking occurs is typically near the entrance/exit.

[ashbeeigh]

Wow, really?

Your argument makes little sense because when you get the job you don't know whether you be sitting next to colleagues who smoke or not.

"that's your bad" - that the person next to you chooses to smoke!? no it's not, it's a decision made by them that they are forcing upon you, You have no choice in the matter. It is an infringement of your right not to inhale their smoke.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion.

Well I would choose to work at a place that doesn't have someone working next to me that's smoking. I could quit that job if I wanted to.

And if my co-workers do smoke and I do interact with them, then that's my choice to be around them.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Non smokers complain about that all the time because the 'outside' where smoking occurs is typically near the entrance/exit.

Well, that's not the issue that I'm discussing. I think those people are objecting to smoking on a moral level Because it is not like they are working in smoke for eight hours a day.

I'm looking at the case where people are forced to work in an environment that is dangerous for them because of choices made by their colleagues, a rights versus responsibility issue.

[midgetonadonkey]

Wow, really?

Your argument makes little sense because when you get the job you don't know whether you be sitting next to colleagues who smoke or not.

"that's your bad" - that the person next to you chooses to smoke!? No it's not, it's a decision made by them that they are forcing upon you, you have no choice in the matter. It is an infringement of your right not to inhale their smoke.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion.

If you don't like the smoking rules at your workplace you should find a new workplace. Why infringe on the smokers rights simply because the nonsmokers rights are more important?

[ashbeeigh]

I'm looking at the case where people are forced to work in an environment that is dangerous for them because of choices made by their colleagues, a rights versus responsibility issue.


Last time I checked I don't know anyone who is forced to work anywhere. Quit if you don't like the smoking.

[Pistons < Spurs]

I'm looking at the case where people are forced to work in an environment that is dangerous for them because of choices made by their colleagues, a rights versus responsibility issue.
Unless you're a slave or indentured servant, you're not forced to do anything. You have choices. Find another job, take a transfer, whatever. But it's not like someone's chaining you down and punishing you.

If you don't like it get the hell out.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Well I would choose to work at a place that doesn't have someone working next to me that's smoking. I could quit that job if I wanted to.

And if my co-workers do smoke and I do interact with them, then that's my choice to be around them.

So, their right to smoke in an enclosed space, endangering your health, is more important than your right to a safe workplace? I think not. You don't place your right to a healthy workplace very highly, do you?

As I said above, it is easy for smokers to go outside to smoke and thus not inflict their smoke upon their colleagues - I am not in any way objecting to that. That is what happens here.

And I am NOT having a go at smokers. I don't have a problem with smokers. I occasionally have a cigarette myself. But I think providing a workplace that is as safe as possible overrides the individual's choice to smoke in this instance.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Wow, I am quite amazed.

So, let's say I've been at a company for 10 years with no smokers around. My deskmate leaves to be replaced by a smoker. The company does not yet have any anti-smoking rules. You think it's more reasonable that I should have to leave the company to protect my health, than the smoker being made to go outside? Wow. We are talking about cancer here, remember?

Basically, you put your individual rights above your responsibility to safeguard others ina social situation. Amazing.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

If you don't like the smoking rules at your workplace you should find a new workplace. Why infringe on the smokers rights simply because the nonsmokers rights are more important?

Because:
1. going outside to smoke is a minor imposition while changing jobs is a major life affecting decision,
2. no-one is saying that a smoker can't smoke, just that they can't smoke in an enclosed space where others will have to breathe that smoke - by contrast, the smoker is not giving their non-smoking colleagues any choice but to inhale their smoke, they are not living up to their RESPONSIBILITY not to harm others.

With the right to smoke in social situations comes the responsibility not to affect others. You seem to have forgotten that.

[midgetonadonkey]

People who think that occasional exposure to second hand smoke will give them cancer are just flat out pussies. Not even every smoker gets cancer much less people that have to simply smell the smoke for a couple of hours a day. Dude get the fuck over it. If the boss doesn't say it's wrong then it isn't wrong. If you don't like it get a new job.

[Melmart1]

The funniest part of this is that a lot of these people who get pissy at the thought of smoking in the workplace work in an office with recycled air, asbestos or other crap that is just as bad.

If smoking is allowed by the boss, so be it. Don't work there if you don't like it. I wouldn't, because as an ex-smoker it would be too much temptation for me. However, if the boss all the sudden changed the rules or something, then people might have a place to bitch. But if smoking was always allowed I don't see what the problem is. You knew better before you took the job.

[TheSanityAnnex]

As an on and off smoker for the last 10 years or so, I chose the right to clean air. I hate when people smoke indoors and even I refuse to smoke indoors. Fuck having to smell that at the workplace.





Well I would choose to work at a place that doesn't have someone working next to me that's smoking. I could quit that job if I wanted to.

Please don't quit, no one wants to hear complaints about unemployment for the next five months.

[TheSanityAnnex]

The funniest part of this is that a lot of these people who get pissy at the thought of smoking in the workplace work in an office with recycled air, asbestos or other crap that is just as bad.
Do you have proof recycled air is just as toxic as second hand smoke?

[midgetonadonkey]

Do you have proof recycled air is just as toxic as second hand smoke?

Do you have proof that second hand smoke is really toxic?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Do you have proof that second hand smoke is really toxic?No, but I would assume it is. I have no idea if recycled air is toxic.

I'm not flaming the people who want to smoke in the workplace, I just said even when I smoke I don't like to smoke inside.

[midgetonadonkey]

I'm a smoker and don't like to smoke inside either but I do think that if nonsmokers feel it's their "right" to have smokers go outside than the smokers have equal "right" to smoke inside if it's allowed.

[Melmart1]

I hate the smell of a place if smokers smoke inside it, even when I was a smoker. That shit gets into everything and is hard to wash out. However, if you could always smoke inside a certain workplace, then non-smokers have no right to bitch for taking that job.

If a bartender doesn't want to be in a smoking environment, they would have to find another job, yes? Why does that only apply to bartenders? It should apply to anyone who knew that smoking was allowed BEFORE they accepted the job.

[marini martini]

People who think that occasional exposure to second hand smoke will give them cancer are just flat out pussies. Not even every smoker gets cancer much less people that have to simply smell the smoke for a couple of hours a day. Dude get the fuck over it. If the boss doesn't say it's wrong then it isn't wrong. If you don't like it get a new job.


I Heart you :toast

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Do you have proof that second hand smoke is really toxic?

Yes, reams of it.

Here's a link to the Surgeon General's 2006 report (citation at bottom if you care to read it):

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/libra...factsheet6.html


I'm a smoker and don't like to smoke inside either but I do think that if nonsmokers feel it's their "right" to have smokers go outside than the smokers have equal "right" to smoke inside if it's allowed.

The issue is whether it should be allowed or not.

Melmart - Asbestos, for example, is treated with extreme care here. Mesothelioma is a horrible way to die. A major building supplies company, James Hardie, has just had to pay out about a billion dollars to workers who it failed to protect from the dangers of asbestos.

"Recycled air" causes cancer? Do tell?

[marini martini]

[QUOTE=RuffnReadyOzStyle]Wow, I am quite amazed.

So, let's say I've been at a company for 10 years with no smokers around. My deskmate leaves to be replaced by a smoker. The company does not yet have any anti-smoking rules. You think it's more reasonable that I should have to leave the company to protect my health, than the smoker being made to go outside? Wow. We are talking about cancer here, remember?

Basically, you put your individual rights above your responsibility to safeguard others ina social situation. Amazing.[/QUOTE

U R having frickin' flashbacks, my friend :toast

[Melmart1]

"Recycled air" causes cancer? Do tell?
Do tell where anyone made that claim? :wtf

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Do tell where anyone made that claim? :wtf


The funniest part of this is that a lot of these people who get pissy at the thought of smoking in the workplace work in an office with recycled air, asbestos or other crap that is just as bad.

Didn't you just write that? You associated "recycled air, asbestos or other crap that is just as bad". Asbestos cause cancer, you associate asbestos and recycled air, thus...

[phyzik]

non-smokers are gay

/end thread

[phyzik]

I honestly dont see why this is an issue, Ive never seen a company in SA that allows smoking in an enclosed workspace in the last 20 or so years.

if you are still working for a company that allows it, seriously, get the fuck out. Otherwise, fuck you! live with it you fucking pussy!

on a side note I cant wait for the city to pass the no smoking rule in bars, I've got a legal way around it and Im going to capitolize like a motherfucker! :smokin

[Melmart1]

Didn't you just write that? You associated "recycled air, asbestos or other crap that is just as bad". Asbestos cause cancer, you associate asbestos and recycled air, thus...
I never said recycled air causes cancer. You can assume or infer that that's what I meant, but it's not. Things like asbestos, secondhand smoke and recycled air are all bad for you, but I never said how or made a specific comparison. All I am saying is that all air we breathe is bad on some level or another. If the place you agreed to work in allows smoking, deal with it or reject the job and find another.

I don't know of anyplace other than bars that allows this though, so I don't see why your panties are in a wad.

[Cry Havoc]

People who think that occasional exposure to second hand smoke will give them cancer are just flat out pussies. Not even every smoker gets cancer much less people that have to simply smell the smoke for a couple of hours a day. Dude get the fuck over it. If the boss doesn't say it's wrong then it isn't wrong. If you don't like it get a new job.

People who think they can do whatever they want wherever they want without regard or concern for their fellow human beings are absolutely pathetic individuals and a sorry excuse for an upright creature with a brain large enough to realize that what they do affects those around them. I know five year-olds who have a better grasp of the effects of their behavior than you are purporting here.

People who call others out for wanting to be in a healthy environment and not have to smell the following toxins: Acetone, ammonia, nicotine, arsenic, benzene, benzoapyrene, butane, cadmium, etc.... you're really attempting to call people pussies for not wanting that in their bodies? I have no words for that kind of blatant ignorance and stupidity.

Hmmm small wonder that no known businesses in San Antonio allow indoor smoking? I guess they're all just pussies, right? You know. All that "wanting to live to see your grandchildren" and stuff, that's just for suckas.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

People who think they can do whatever they want wherever they want without regard or concern for their fellow human beings are absolutely pathetic individuals and a sorry excuse for an upright creature with a brain large enough to realize that what they do affects those around them. I know five year-olds who have a better grasp of the effects of their behavior than you are purporting here.

People who call others out for wanting to be in a healthy environment and not have to smell the following toxins: Acetone, ammonia, nicotine, arsenic, benzene, benzoapyrene, butane, cadmium, etc.... you're really attempting to call people pussies for not wanting that in their bodies? I have no words for that kind of blatant ignorance and stupidity.

Hmmm small wonder that no known businesses in San Antonio allow indoor smoking? I guess they're all just pussies, right? You know. All that "wanting to live to see your grandchildren" and stuff, that's just for suckas.

Oh my God, someone actually gets the point! Thank you, I can die happy now.

Melmart - so why did you put "recycled air" in the same sentence as tobacco smoke and asbestos? There is no comparison. That was my point.

[SpursWoman]

Non smokers complain about that all the time because the 'outside' where smoking occurs is typically near the entrance/exit.

That's funny ... since I quit, that's where it chokes me up the most. I'm extremely sensitive to it because I'm still scared of a relapse, and sure enough ... everytime I walk outside of a building (even the grocery store), there's a very strong cigarette smell.

Anyway, the point of this thread is virtually moot. Unless you work at a bar that still allows smoking (a lot of even them now don't), most if not all businesses require you to go outside to smoke. That guy firing his employees that didn't smoke was in Germany....and I have no idea what's the norm around there.

[DarkReign]

So, their right to smoke in an enclosed space, endangering your health, is more important than your right to a safe workplace?

Yes. The employer sets the policy, you as an employee obey. Dont like it?

Quit, brotha.

[DarkReign]

If smoking is allowed by the boss, so be it. Don't work there if you don't like it. I wouldn't, because as an ex-smoker it would be too much temptation for me. However, if the boss all the sudden changed the rules or something, then people might have a place to bitch. But if smoking was always allowed I don't see what the problem is. You knew better before you took the job.

Agreed.

[DarkReign]

...as I sit at my desk smoking writing this dribble. Just hired a new secretary 2 weeks ago.

I said "I smoke in my office, if you dont like it, dont take the job."

Shes employed. Shes happy. Deal with it.

[samikeyp]

I honestly dont see why this is an issue, Ive never seen a company in SA that allows smoking in an enclosed workspace in the last 20 or so years.

I worked for a company in 92-95 that still allowed smoking in the break room the first year i was there.

[baseline bum]

Smokers are douches. They'll defend their addiction over all reason to the death. Anyone who says there are no health effects from second hand smoke is a liar and doesn't really believe what they're saying.