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Nbadan
01-18-2008, 12:05 AM
Even George Will is ready to throw in the 2008 GOP white flag....

George Will, Washington Post Writers Group


WASHINGTON - The first year of the 2008 campaign -- think about that -- has clearly established that the Republican Party's prospects are cloudy. In the first two major contests, Mike Huckabee has finished first and third, John McCain fourth and first, Romney second twice. Rudy Giuliani has been treading water, waiting for Florida, which on Jan. 29 will allocate more convention delegates (114) than Iowa, Wyoming and New Hampshire have combined (92). So, clinging to cliches as to a lifeline, Republicans congratulate themselves on how evenly the party's strengths, such as they are, are spread among their candidates.

But although only one-third of 1 percent of the national electorate -- those who have participated in the Iowa, Wyoming and New Hampshire nominating events -- have spoken, the Democrats have even more reason than they did three weeks ago to look forward to a rollicking November. Realistic Republicans are looking for shelter. Nov. 4 could be their most disagreeable day since Nov. 3, 1964. Actually, this November could be even worse because in 1964 Barry Goldwater's loss of 44 states served a purpose, the ideological reorientation and revitalization of the party. Which Republican candidate this year could produce a similarly constructive loss?

Dismal adverse indicators include: shifts in voters' identifications with the two parties (Democrats now 50 percent, Republicans 36 percent); the tendency of independents (they favored Democratic candidates by 18 points in 2006); the fact that Democrats hold a majority of congressional seats in states with 303 electoral votes; the Democrats' strength and the Republicans' relative weakness in fundraising; the percentage of Americans who think the country is on the "wrong track"; the Republicans' enthusiasm deficit relative to Democrats' embrace of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, one of whom will be nominated.

Iowa and New Hampshire were two of the three states (New Mexico was the third) that changed partisan alignment between 2000 and 2004 -- Iowa turning red, New Hampshire blue. This month, Democratic participation was twice the Republican participation in Iowa and almost 22 percent higher in New Hampshire. George W. Bush won Iowa by just 0.67 percent of the vote. Whomever the Republicans nominate should assume that he must replace Iowa's seven electoral votes if he is to reach Bush's 2004 total of 286.

Republicans try to take comfort from the fact that 61 Democratic members of Congress represent districts that President Bush carried in 2004. But 37 of those won with at least 55 percent of the vote. Furthermore, 14 Republican representatives won in 2006 by a single percentage point, or less.

Granted, in the last 150 years, Franklin Roosevelt, Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter (barely) are the only Democrats to achieve 50 percent of the popular vote. And this year Democrats might still give Republicans the gift of Hillary Clinton, who probably has a popular vote ceiling of 52 percent. A subliminal -- too much so -- subtext of Obama's message is that Clinton cannot receive the big mandate required for big changes: Enactment of Social Security in 1935 followed Franklin Roosevelt's 57.4 percent victory in 1932, and in 1965 Medicare came after Lyndon Johnson's 61 percent victory over Barry Goldwater.

But even if Democrats nominate Clinton, Republicans must remember that Bush's 2.4 point margin of victory in 2004 was unimpressive: In the 12 previous re-elections of presidents, the average margin of victory was 12.9 points.

Today's Republican primary is in one of the nation's worst-governed states. Under a Democratic governor, Michigan has been taxed into a one-state recession. Native son Mitt Romney, the Republican candidate who best understands how wealth is created, might revive his campaign by asking: Who do you want to be president in 2010 when the Bush tax cuts, which McCain opposed, expire? Can automakers endure more regulations such as the fuel efficiency mandates that climate-fixers such as McCain favor? Do you want a president (Mike Huckabee, proponent of a national sales tax of at least 30 percent) pledged to radically increase the proportion of federal taxation paid by the middle class?

Republicans should try to choose the next president. They cannot avoid choosing how their party will define itself, even if by a loss beneath a worthy banner.

NewsObserver (http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/columns/story/880784.html)

All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be published, broadcast or redistributed in any manner.

Mavtek
01-18-2008, 01:33 AM
I haven't really been one to be openly negative regarding the GOP because I'm a precinct chair and a deputized voter Registrar. On Tuesday and Today the Texas GOP setup along with the State's democratic convention booths at local high schools to get out the vote and register seniors to vote. On Tuesday we attended Lakeview Centennial high historically a more liberal/minority base. We had our Red Booth with the big Elephant on it and Young Republicans insignia on it. Of the 200-300 students that attended the "Get out the Vote" we had, I'd say we had 25 Students come talk to us. It wasn't even comparable to the hoards over at the Democrat booth getting information on Obama and Edwards. The Funny thing of the 25 or so we had come up to talk with us 15 of those wanted to know how they could vote Ron Paul. Today we went to Poteet High, which has historically been far more favorable to Republicans that Lakeview. I was thinking it would be like 04', 50/50 dem repub. We had around 40-50 this time. compared to 100's swarming around getting information on Obama. Of the 50 we had I'd say at least 20 were wanting information regarding Ron Paul.......

I unfortunately have to be very honest with these kids too, many of them aren't 18 yet, but will be in time for the general. Of those that ask about Paul I have to tell them that his chance of getting the nomination is slim. I ask them if they like info on maybe a 2nd choice, they say no and head over to get information on Obama.

I'm fighting for the party, but they are abandoning true conservatives right now, and they are abandoning the young with their Hawkish views. At the current rate of attrition I'm seeing, by 2012 Republicans will be 30% or less in Congress. Scary stuff. Oh and we used to get Libertarians........... They're all but gone for the most part.

SouthernFried
01-18-2008, 03:08 AM
And the Spurs have no chance in the playoffs.

Silly fucking thread

boutons_
01-18-2008, 09:01 AM
"Bush's 2.4 point margin of victory in 2004 was unimpressive: In the 12 previous re-elections of presidents, the average margin of victory was 12.9 points."

just unimpressive? it was the tiniest margin of all re-elected presidents, ever.

yep, Rove's strategy of "let's start a bogus war to create a bogus war president. People won't switch president's in war time" worked brilliantly, suckered just enough suckers. Without the bogus war, bogus dubya would have been One and Done, like his loser father.

If the economy continues to tank, if the Repugs go to their convention without a candidate and have a very probably bitter floor fight, the election will be even more for the Dems to lose. The Dems fucked up in 2000, they can certainly fuckup in 2008.

Mitt Romney
01-18-2008, 09:28 AM
I'm in this to win and don't under estimate the American people.

DarkReign
01-18-2008, 11:07 AM
I'm in this to win and don't under estimate the American people.

"Underestimate" is one word, Mitt.

George Gervin's Afro
01-18-2008, 01:34 PM
We may have to put M-Ann Coulter and yawn whannity under suicide watch..

Mavtek
01-19-2008, 12:29 AM
You know sure we're all laughing now, but while I feel the Republican party has hopelessly lost it's way it will not be good for democracy to see it flounder while the Democrats are an overwhelming majority. This isn't good because it used to be both parties fighting each other would keep each other in check. Now every socialist agenda that comes along will be passed through with 30% of congress yelling nay and the rest laughing at them. Oh and no hope in sight for growth as the GOP has completely abandoned the youth.

Cant_Be_Faded
01-19-2008, 12:34 PM
Each democratic member of congress would have to have three illegitimate platinum blonde daughters from Beverely Hills that are friends of Paris Hilton to be able to match the spending that took place in Bush's presidency with the Repub majority.

Extra Stout
01-19-2008, 04:01 PM
You know sure we're all laughing now, but while I feel the Republican party has hopelessly lost it's way it will not be good for democracy to see it flounder while the Democrats are an overwhelming majority. This isn't good because it used to be both parties fighting each other would keep each other in check. Now every socialist agenda that comes along will be passed through with 30% of congress yelling nay and the rest laughing at them. Oh and no hope in sight for growth as the GOP has completely abandoned the youth.
Parties realign over time, unless their leadership is such an utter failure that they become irrelevant, like the Whigs did.

Each party has enough different facets that they can create new coalitions. Each party is probably resilient enough that it can take advantage of events yet unforseen. Six years ago, the conventional wisdom was that the Democratic Party was on the ropes. Now, they are in ascendancy, without even having had to bother with developing new ideas.

The question is not whether the GOP will survice, but rather what it will look like in the future. The Reagan coalition has run its course. I think in the future the GOP either will go in a more libertarian direction, or a populist, authoritarian, socially conservative direction. If I had to guess, I would guess the latter.

Mavtek
01-19-2008, 04:24 PM
Don"t look now, but Ron Paul projected to come in 2nd in Nevada.

xrayzebra
01-19-2008, 04:45 PM
Parties realign over time, unless their leadership is such an utter failure that they become irrelevant, like the Whigs did.

Each party has enough different facets that they can create new coalitions. Each party is probably resilient enough that it can take advantage of events yet unforseen. Six years ago, the conventional wisdom was that the Democratic Party was on the ropes. Now, they are in ascendancy, without even having had to bother with developing new ideas.

The question is not whether the GOP will survice, but rather what it will look like in the future. The Reagan coalition has run its course. I think in the future the GOP either will go in a more libertarian direction, or a populist, authoritarian, socially conservative direction. If I had to guess, I would guess the latter.

The dimm-o-craps are still on the ropes, their party
is in complete dis-array. Granted the GOP is not
much better off. The GOP forgot what made them
"the" party being conservative. They talked the
talk but forgot the walk. The dimms just cant help
themselves. They think all America is poor, uneducated,
and just plain stupid. They want to take all the
producers money and spend it as they think it should
be spent. Level the playing field is their mantra.
Except they just cant quite figure out what playing
field they are on. Just give us more money and we
will fix it. They have been telling the minorities this
for how many decades and haven't solved anything
yet. Can anyone tell me what new programs
the wannabe dimm-o-craptic Presidents have brought
forward. Same old crap.

What this country needs is some good old fashion
leadership. That was Reagans strong suite. He was
a leader. Their was no coalition! He stood on his own,
much to the consternation of the MSM and the
dimm-o-crap party. He, Reagan, went straight to the
people and spoke to them on a personal basis.

And I can see no leader in any of the Presidential
contenders. GOP or Dimms. And looking at post
like boutons and SA210 and some of the others make
me really want to cry for our country.

kyleo
01-19-2008, 05:17 PM
The GOP's chance won again today in Nevada - and it's not Mitt Romney...

Extra Stout
01-19-2008, 05:22 PM
What this country needs is some good old fashion
leadership. That was Reagans strong suite. He was
a leader. Their was no coalition! He stood on his own,
much to the consternation of the MSM and the
dimm-o-crap party. He, Reagan, went straight to the
people and spoke to them on a personal basis.

And I can see no leader in any of the Presidential
contenders. GOP or Dimms.
Leaders like Reagan come along only once every couple of generations.

JohnnyMarzetti
01-19-2008, 06:17 PM
Reagan wasn't all that. He is way overrated.

Ignignokt
01-19-2008, 06:45 PM
Johnny is a tard^^^^

Ocotillo
01-21-2008, 04:52 PM
I look for a very tight race for president in November. No matter how things look right now, the Republicans have a machine that will slime the D nominee no matter who it is that by the time November gets here there will be a lot of people who believe Obama was in a cave with Bin Laden plotting 9/11.

The Dems will make significant pick ups in the Congress though.

The Reps are becoming a regional party (the South) fast.

Extra Stout
01-21-2008, 04:53 PM
Reagan wasn't all that. He is way overrated.
Good little liberal. You've been reading your Hitlery talking points!

George Gervin's Afro
01-21-2008, 05:22 PM
Good little liberal. You've been reading your Hitlery talking points!


so if you don't agree that Reagan was the second coming then you are a hillary shill? lighten up dude

JoeChalupa
01-21-2008, 06:02 PM
Good little liberal. You've been reading your Hitlery talking points!

God forbid anyone say anything negative about Reagan or Bush. It is against republican conservative get-in-line law.

George Gervin's Afro
01-21-2008, 06:04 PM
God forbid anyone say anything negative about Reagan or Bush. It is against republican conservative get-in-line law.


It's worse.. you aren't patriotic...

JoeChalupa
01-21-2008, 06:15 PM
It's worse.. you aren't patriotic...

I know. :oops

BonnerDynasty
01-21-2008, 10:57 PM
I have pretty much assumed the Dims have this one.

Time to just get the popcorn ready and see how much more chaotic the next 4+ years can become.