D'Antoni, Kerr deny rift rumor

[Jeremy]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0117sunsnb.html


"I read a thing about (Kerr wanting) less 3s and more defense," D'Antoni said. "You're talking about a guy who was all 3s and no defense. I've never heard him utter those words. There's no validity to it."

[stretch]

Is D'Antoni retarded or what?

[ambchang]

Way to evaluate your boss. I actually find it funny.

[Extra Stout]

I get the feeling D'Antoni will be out as Suns coach this summer. Hopefully, Steve Nash will have gone into steep decline by then, or we'll have to admit the Suns' greatest weakness will have been removed and they will have become serious contenders.

[Xylus]

D'Antoni is all jokes , and that's obviously a joke.

I don't think the Suns should be taking fewer 3's, but they do need a coach who places more emphasis on four things:

1. Defense. Duh. The Suns have an abundance of talent and athleticism, but it isn't being put to good use.

2. Rebounding. Double Duh. This is a coaching problem, not just a size disadvantage. The Suns are bound to give up a few more rebounds than they secure, but 23 offensive rebounds by their opponent is fucking disgusting.

3. Pounding the rock into Amare on almost every possession. D'Antoni likes to spread the shot wealth, but all he needs to do is look at the stats: the Suns are something like 15-1 when Amare has 20-10 (that 1 loss was against the Jazz when Marion, Nash, and Hill were all out). This has always, ALWAYS been the case, but D'Antoni is too much of a putz to realize that.

4. Play the fucking bench. Give Skinner 25 minutes. Give Banks 10 minutes. Let DJ Strawberry play. I mean, you let Jalen Rose rot on the bench last year when he could have produced, given the right amount of PT. It's no wonder that Nash, Bell, and Marion are exhausted by the time the playoffs roll around. Give these guys some consistent rest. D'Antoni worries that we'll lose the lead everytime Nash goes out; but when you pound it into your reserves' heads that you don't trust them without Nash, then naturally they won't perform with the right amount of confidence.

In conclusion, fire D'Antoni. Do it Kerr!

[da_suns_fan]

D'Antoni is all jokes , and that's obviously a joke.

I don't think the Suns should be taking fewer 3's, but they do need a coach who places more emphasis on four things:

1. Defense. Duh. The Suns have an abundance of talent and athleticism, but it isn't being put to good use.

2. Rebounding. Double Duh. This is a coaching problem, not just a size disadvantage. The Suns are bound to give up a few more rebounds than they secure, but 23 offensive rebounds by their opponent is fucking disgusting.

3. Pounding the rock into Amare on almost every possession. D'Antoni likes to spread the shot wealth, but all he needs to do is look at the stats: the Suns are something like 15-1 when Amare has 20-10 (that 1 loss was against the Jazz when Marion, Nash, and Hill were all out). This has always, ALWAYS been the case, but D'Antoni is too much of a putz to realize that.

4. Play the fucking bench. Give Skinner 25 minutes. Give Banks 10 minutes. Let DJ Strawberry play. I mean, you let Jalen Rose rot on the bench last year when he could have produced, given the right amount of PT. It's no wonder that Nash, Bell, and Marion are exhausted by the time the playoffs roll around. Give these guys some consistent rest. D'Antoni worries that we'll lose the lead everytime Nash goes out; but when you pound it into your reserves' heads that you don't trust them without Nash, then naturally they won't perform with the right amount of confidence.

In conclusion, fire D'Antoni. Do it Kerr!

1. I would say that their defense is good when they're playing with effort. You could say that their lack of effort this season should fall on D'Antoni, but its not ALL his fault.

Paul Coro had a great statement that the Suns could be undefeated right now and it wouldn't matter. They would still be hearing this "can they do it in the playoffs" garbage.

2. Their rebounding is pitiful and stands as their biggest threat to the championship. Forget offensive rebounds, their inability (Stoudemire) to simply box out their man has been excruciating to watch. If they don't make SERIOUS improvements or at least do a much better job in the playoffs, we're in for dissapointment.

3. I completely disagree with you. The rest of the Suns end up standing around when Amare tries to do too much. Plus the reason he shoots such a high percentage is because he gets most of his shots in the flow of the offense.

Should LB be shooting less? Sure. Should they go to Amare more? Yes. But I dont think they should change an offense thats the most efficient and deadly in the league.

Plus its great to "save" that Nash/Amare pic n roll for the fourth quarter. In our games against San Antonio and Dallas, they had absolutely no answer (Suns just ran out of time against Dallas after falling so far behind in the first).

4. For everytime Banks has a decent game, he has three where he doesn't accomplish anything. I knew we wouldn't see any of his ass last night.

Show me a player who proved D'Antoni wrong and I'll change my mind. Show me a guy who couldn't get off our bench and went on to play lots of minutes with another team afterwards.

5. Kerr isn't going to fire D'Antoni. The Suns have sold out every single game and thats all that Sarver cares about.

Im not sure what they should do about the rebounding. Maybe we'll get lucky and the Sonics will cut Kurt Thomas! :drunk

[Findog]

Championship teams always get production from their bench. That's just the way it is. And for the most part the Suns have had their share of scrubs sitting down next to D'Antoni, but all you need is an 8-man rotation. You're telling me Jalen Rose couldn't have contributed 10-15 minutes a night? You're telling me Marcus Banks won't play better if he's consistently spelling Nash for 10-15 minutes a night?

Sure it might mean the Suns win 50-55 games instead of 60, but I think it would make them a much more dangerous team come playoff time if the guys they count on are a bit fresher and their bench guys are used to playing. It's hard to prepare yourself and get in any kind of rhythm if you only make it onto the court in garbage time. And I understand up to a point that D'Antoni wants to run and turn it into a contest of offensive efficiency, since the Suns will usually win that battle, but if I were him, this is my rotation:

Starting lineup:

C: Brian Skinner
PF: Amare
SF: Marion
SG: Bell
PG: Nash

6th Man: Barbosa
Other two rotation spots: Diaw, Hill

There's an 8-man rotation. They have plenty of guys who can score, Brian Skinner can absolutely do the dirty work for them that "doesn't show up in the box score." People laugh and laugh and laugh that the Mavs are paying Erick Dampier $10 million a year in exchange for 7 points and 7 rebounds per game, but he does a good job of protecting the rim and it's a layup line for the opposition without him. I wish he had better hands and was a better finisher, but there's no question he improves our interior defense. I still have plenty of doubts that the Mavs can win four straight series and finish things this time, but we're not winning a title without Dampier or somebody else that can guard the rim.

[DazedAndConfused]

You're simply not going to win a championship without solid defense and rebounding, two things the Suns lack. You can't out-offense your way through every 7-game playoff series, your shots will inevitably stop falling some nights and you need your defense to keep you in games. The Suns can go up 15 as easily as they can give up 15, until they solve this problem they will never make it out of the WC.

[Findog]

You're simply not going to win a championship without solid defense and rebounding, two things the Suns lack. You can't out-offense your way through every 7-game playoff series, your shots will inevitably stop falling some nights and you need your defense to keep you in games. The Suns can go up 15 as easily as they can give up 15, until they solve this problem they will never make it out of the WC.

I've been impressed with Skinner the few times I've seen him play for the Suns. I don't watch them on a nightly basis so maybe Suns fans are chuckling at the notion that he can be a major contributor for them, but they do indeed need somebody who can rebound and play d. I'm not saying he's a savior or anything, but D'Antoni is an idiot for not giving him 25-30 minutes a night at center. If it's the fourth quarter of a close game, I'm sticking him at the five and Amare at the four and I'm running the Nash/Amare pic'n'roll.

[JamStone]

Amare can get 80 points on 40 shot attempts so getting 20 points on 10 shot attempts should be no problem. And, he's getting 10+ shot attempts a game.

[JMarkJohns]

Sarver won't fire D'Antoni until his systems fails to be exciting and turn a profit. He's exactly the coach a dumbass like Sarver wants. As long as Sarver cares about profit over Titles, then D'Antoni's value is high in Sarver's book.

What Sarver fails to understand is that if he thinks the money he's making now is substantial, then the money he could make when the Suns, Arizona's first sports franchise, win the title would dwarf the "fun and 50" profit greatly. He's sitting on the mother load and is more concerned about opporational costs and staying within budget than taking a chance striking that deep, but rich vein.

[MavDynasty]

You're simply not going to win a championship without solid defense and rebounding, two things the Suns lack. You can't out-offense your way through every 7-game playoff series, your shots will inevitably stop falling some nights and you need your defense to keep you in games. The Suns can go up 15 as easily as they can give up 15, until they solve this problem they will never make it out of the WC.

This team is such a fluke that gets all the calls.Too bad they cant get it done in the playoffs.

[BonnerDynasty]

Now THIS is a reason to repeat.

Spurs knocking out the Suns in the playoffs one more time would be the DAGGER in D'Antonio's coaching job.

I'd Tivo that press conference.

[DazedAndConfused]

Now THIS is a reason to repeat.

Spurs knocking out the Suns in the playoffs one more time would be the DAGGER in D'Antonio's coaching job.

I'd Tivo that press conference.

I get a strange feeling LAL is going to knock them out this year.

[m33p0]

jeff van gundy as the next suns coach.

[Jeremy]

Championship teams always get production from their bench. That's just the way it is. And for the most part the Suns have had their share of scrubs sitting down next to D'Antoni, but all you need is an 8-man rotation.

Uh, D'antoni does play an 8-man rotation.

[Xylus]

I've been a huge proponent of the "Start Brian Skinner Experiment" since the start of the season, but D'Antoni would never, ever go for it.

[MavDynasty]

The suns will never win a championship.Dantoni is a dumbass and Nash is aging.Amare is a lockerroom problem and Diaw is a scrub.Bell and Skinner are the only people on that team that give a fuck. Offense doesnt win you championships.

[Findog]

Uh, D'antoni does play an 8-man rotation.

Not really. Not on a consistent basis. He only trusts seven of his players.

[DazedAndConfused]

The Suns high octane offense is good enough to beat .500 scrub teams, but look at the Sun's record against above .500 teams in the WC. They have only beat injury depleted Lakers and Spurs teams. It's really telling of how far they have fallen when they cannot take on a decent WC team that is at full strength.

[Jeremy]

Not really. Not on a consistent basis. He only trusts seven of his players.

Yes he does play 8 players on a consistent basis. The (very) few times that he only plays 7 players is sometimes when there's an injury. And sometimes he plays 9 players.

The starters are Nash, Bell, Hill, Marion, and Stoudemire. The 6th man is Barbosa, the 7th man is Diaw, and the 8th man is Skinner.

In fact, the 8th man, Skinner, is 1 of only 3 players (the other two being the other bench players--Barbosa and Diaw) to have played all 40 games so far this season. I wouldn't call playing Skinner every single game, "inconsistent." He's also played in both halves in almost all (if not all) of those games.

D'antoni plays 8 players on a consistent basis.

[Armando]

The Suns high octane offense is good enough to beat .500 scrub teams, but look at the Sun's record against above .500 teams in the WC. They have only beat injury depleted Lakers and Spurs teams. It's really telling of how far they have fallen when they cannot take on a decent WC team that is at full strength.


Excuses excuses

So what? The Suns are supposed to throw games away because Bynum and Parker did not play? Kobe and Duncan still played. If I remember Duncan had a big game vs the Suns in December and they still lost. Kobe in the game on Thursday was MIA in the in the 2nd period. Bynum and Parker being out is not the Suns problem.

[Findog]

Yes he does play 8 players on a consistent basis. The (very) few times that he only plays 7 players is sometimes when there's an injury.

The starters are Nash, Bell, Hill, Marion, and Stoudemire. The 6th man is Barbosa, the 7th man is Diaw, and the 8th man is Skinner.

In fact, the 8th man, Skinner, is 1 of only 3 players (the other two being the other bench players--Barbosa and Diaw) to have played all 40 games so far this season. I wouldn't call playing Skinner every single game, "inconsistent." He's also played in both halves in almost all (if not all) of those games.

D'antoni plays 8 players on a consistent basis.

He only plays Skinner 14 minutes a game. That shit is going to catch up with the Suns, like it always does. Marcus Banks sucks, but he should be getting 10-12 minutes a night spelling Nash. It might cost the Suns 4 or 5 wins over the course of a season, but it might mean Nash has something left in the tank at the end. He certainly wore down in Dallas every year and ran out of gas in the conference Finals against us. Last year the Suns went out too early for that to be a factor.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I get the feeling D'Antoni will be out as Suns coach this summer. Hopefully, Steve Nash will have gone into steep decline by then, or we'll have to admit the Suns' greatest weakness will have been removed and they will have become serious contenders.

Hopefully the next coach starts to use Nash like the Jazz used Stockton late in his career. D'Antoni's system where Nash dominates the ball whenever he's on the court puts tremendous strain on his body. If we went down low more often with Amare (or hopefully Pau Gasol according to recent rumors), and had Nash play a more passive role, we could definitely extend his career a few more years.

Nash is a phenomenal player, but in watching all the games this year, you can see that he's declining physically. He's still having a tremendous season, but I fear that this is the beginning of the end.

[Armando]

Hopefully the next coach starts to use Nash like the Jazz used Stockton late in his career. D'Antoni's system where Nash dominates the ball whenever he's on the court puts tremendous strain on his body. If we went down low more often with Amare (or hopefully Pau Gasol according to recent rumors), and had Nash play a more passive role, we could definitely extend his career a few more years.

Nash is a phenomenal player, but in watching all the games this year, you can see that he's declining physically. He's still having a tremendous season, but I fear that this is the beginning of the end.


Gasol? They are better off keeping Amare.

[JMarkJohns]

Jeremy, D'Antoni is piss-poor at handling minutes and rotations. Findog is exactly right on this issue. D'Antoni overplays Nash, Hill and Marion and underplays Skinner and Banks and, yes, even Tucker. There's zero reason the Suns rotation can't look more like this...

PG: Nash (32 Minutes), Banks (10), Barbosa (6)
SG: Bell (25), Barbosa (23)
SF: Hill (30), Marion (8), Bell (5), Tucker (5)
PF: Marion (24), Diaw (24)
C: Stoudemire (30), Skinner (18)

If push came to shove, I'd cut Tucker's minutes and play Marion five more minutes at SF and five fewer at PF, and add another five minutes to Skinner's rotation, running a Marion, Amare, Skinner frontcourt out there for a minimum of 15-to-20 minutes a game.

Marion 32 minutes
Nash 32 minutes
Amare 30 minutes
Bell 30 minutes
Hill 30 minutes
Barbosa 29 minutes
Diaw 24 minutes
Skinner 23 minutes
Banks 10 minutes

That's a solid rotation. It's as balanced as the Suns can get.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Gasol? They are better off keeping Amare.

The deal (heard it on the radio), would entail us dumping Banks and Diaw and getting back Warrick, Miller, and Stoudamire.

[Findog]

The deal (heard it on the radio), would entail us dumping Banks and Diaw and getting back Warrick, Miller, and Stoudamire.

I'd do that deal in a heartbeat if I were the Suns, but no way Sarver signs off on dumping the fan fave Stoudemire. Unless there are long-term concerns about his knee and they want to get out of that contract. Miller would be deadly for the Suns.

[JMarkJohns]

I'd trade Amare, Diaw and Banks for Gasol, Miller, Warrick and Stoudamire.

PG: Nash, Stoudamire
SG: Bell, Barbosa
SF: Miller, Hill
PF: Marion, Warrick
C: Gasol, Skinner

That's a solid 10-man rotation.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I'd trade Amare, Diaw and Banks for Gasol, Miller, Warrick and Stoudamire.

PG: Nash, Stoudamire
SG: Bell, Barbosa
SF: Miller, Hill
PF: Marion, Warrick
C: Gasol, Skinner

That's a solid 10-man rotation.

Not a fan of Marion starting at the four. Maybe a LB for Jeff Foster trade to improve our size?

[Findog]

I'd trade Amare, Diaw and Banks for Gasol, Miller, Warrick and Stoudamire.

PG: Nash, Stoudamire
SG: Bell, Barbosa
SF: Miller, Hill
PF: Marion, Warrick
C: Gasol, Skinner

That's a solid 10-man rotation.

The Suns still wouldn't play any defense, but they might be even more efficient offensively and be able to finally win doing it D'Antoni's way. Amare wants to win, but he wants to win by being the star. That team would completely defer to Nash as the leader and nobody would be bitching about how they didn't get enough touches. The defense and ball movement would end up dictating who'd get to take the shot.

[Xylus]

I don't think trading Amare is the answer. His defense is suspect, but if you play him at PF and Skinner (or someone else via trade) at C, then his defensive deficiencies are less pronounced, our rebounding improves, and our defense does, too. Trading D'Antoni is the answer!

We have all the right pieces; our coach just doesn't know how to use them.

[Findog]

I don't think trading Amare is the answer. His defense is suspect, but if you play him at PF and Skinner (or someone else via trade) at C, then his defensive deficiencies are less pronounced, our rebounding improves, and our defense does, too. Trading D'Antoni is the answer!

We have all the right pieces; our coach just doesn't know how to use them.

Our old buddy d_s_f with something enlightening:

http://arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=105636


And it seems like this is nothing new. I think Amare negatively affects your team chemistry. The irony of him calling out somebody else as being a ballhog, especially when they're curbstomping the T-Pups at the time.

[JMarkJohns]

Not a fan of Marion starting at the four. Maybe a LB for Jeff Foster trade to improve our size?

I wouldn't trade Barbosa for Foster, but a one-for-one of Warrick for Foster would work. Have no idea why the Pacers would go for it, but frankly I don't see them trading foster anyways.

I think with Miller's added rebounding from the SF, they'd be slightly better in the numbers.

Whether they keep Amare or trade him for Gasol, I'd love to see a Marion/Amare or Gasol/Skinner frontcourt for 20 minutes a game.

[JMarkJohns]

And, just for the record, I'm on board with Xylus and his "feed Amare the ball in the post" stance. He's dead on. Amare needs 25 or more touches per game, specifically when he's in a position to create with the ball. He commands attention which gets the Suns to the FT line at a higher rate, gets them more, and perhaps even better perimeter shots and while I share some concern with others about him being a blackhole on offense, he's an efficient blackhole and establishing him early and often would only help to either: 1. generate open perimeter shots throughout the game, or 2. by establishing perimeter threes early from his post presense, keep the lane open for he, Nash, Hill and Barbosa to command late.

Amare is the Suns best finisher on offense, whether it be off the pic-n-roll, off the dribble, down low or from 18 feet. I trust him over every player after Nash and see no ill coming from him getting 15 or more shots a game to go with 7-to-10 FTs.

You need balance, but the right kind. This even across the board kind isn't working right now. Amare needs 20%, Nash 15% and all others around 10%. Then the Suns will have a better opportunity to win.

[Shred]

Regardless of the coach, the Suns are simply not built to win an NBA championship, at least not when the refs have bet the under.

[Shred]

If anyone in the Suns organization had any brains, they'd listen up to what Mavs fan has to say. There's a team that knows how to win when it counts.

[Armando]

I can't see the Suns trading Amare to another Western conference team. If he gets traded or Marion it will be to the East.

[ducks]

I don't think trading Amare is the answer. His defense is suspect, but if you play him at PF and Skinner (or someone else via trade) at C, then his defensive deficiencies are less pronounced, our rebounding improves, and our defense does, too. Trading D'Antoni is the answer!

We have all the right pieces; our coach just doesn't know how to use them.
amare is a cancer
steve kerr was a fool to not try to trade him for kg

[Armando]

amare is a cancer
steve kerr was a fool to not try to trade him for kg


I don't think Amare is a cancer. He wants to win but I think sometimes he goes around it the wrong way. As much as Nash is crucial to the team Amare is the one that puts them over the top.

[JMarkJohns]

amare is a cancer
steve kerr was a fool to not try to trade him for kg

They did offer him. Minnesota balked.

[Armando]

They did offer him. Minnesota balked.


From what I heard KG wanted to go to Phoenix but if Amare was there. He was pushing for Marion to be traded. The Wolves balked at that trade.

[Jeremy]

Jeremy, D'Antoni is piss-poor at handling minutes and rotations. Findog is exactly right on this issue. D'Antoni overplays Nash, Hill and Marion and underplays Skinner and Banks and, yes, even Tucker. There's zero reason the Suns rotation can't look more like this...

PG: Nash (32 Minutes), Banks (10), Barbosa (6)
SG: Bell (25), Barbosa (23)
SF: Hill (30), Marion (8), Bell (5), Tucker (5)
PF: Marion (24), Diaw (24)
C: Stoudemire (30), Skinner (18)

If push came to shove, I'd cut Tucker's minutes and play Marion five more minutes at SF and five fewer at PF, and add another five minutes to Skinner's rotation, running a Marion, Amare, Skinner frontcourt out there for a minimum of 15-to-20 minutes a game.

Marion 32 minutes
Nash 32 minutes
Amare 30 minutes
Bell 30 minutes
Hill 30 minutes
Barbosa 29 minutes
Diaw 24 minutes
Skinner 23 minutes
Banks 10 minutes

That's a solid rotation. It's as balanced as the Suns can get.

Oh, I totally agree that D'antoni's rotations are horrible. I was just pointing out that he does play an 8-man rotation. In fact, that is what many people criticize him for doing--ONLY playing 8 players.

I'm glad to see that he is finally giving Strawberry a look at the backup PG spot, but he'll probably quit playing him when Hill comes back, and continue with only 8 players. I definitely think that Strawberry is our second-best PG on the current roster, except for maybe Grant Hill if they would play him at the PG spot.

[JMarkJohns]

From what I heard KG wanted to go to Phoenix but if Amare was there. He was pushing for Marion to be traded. The Wolves balked at that trade.

Yeah. I know for a 100% fact that Amare was offered as a last attempt to acquire Garnett. Minnesota cited a reluctance to acquire a player with so high a contract.

The Suns also offered Amare to the Lakers as part of a package to acquire Kobe.

So, Amare was offered twice. Marion was certainly offered more, but Amare is available for the right player or package of players.

[Extra Stout]

Excuses excuses

So what? The Suns are supposed to throw games away because Bynum and Parker did not play? Kobe and Duncan still played. If I remember Duncan had a big game vs the Suns in December and they still lost. Kobe in the game on Thursday was MIA in the in the 2nd period. Bynum and Parker being out is not the Suns problem.
Typical Suns fan: too stupid to follow a line of argument.

The point is that the Suns have a disturbing trend of being unable to beat quality teams at full strength, which bodes ill for the playoffs.

[Extra Stout]

I don't think Amare is a cancer. He wants to win but I think sometimes he goes around it the wrong way. As much as Nash is crucial to the team Amare is the one that puts them over the top.
Over the top of what? Is there some precipice of bad defense or bad rebounding the Suns are trying to reach?

The problem with Amare is that mentally, he is limited to the intelligence and maturity of an early adolescent. He needs a parent.

[Armando]

Typical Suns fan: too stupid to follow a line of argument.

The point is that the Suns have a disturbing trend of being unable to beat quality teams at full strength, which bodes ill for the playoffs.


I counter that with 2006 Miami Heat. Look at thier record against .500 teams that season. The Suns still have 1 more game with the Lakers and 2 more with the Mavs. Wait till the season ends before you evaluate thier record.

[da_suns_fan]

You can't upload atachments on this site????


See pics of my front row game last night here:

http://arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=105636&page=2

[Armando]

You can't upload atachments on this site????


See pics of my front row game last night here:

http://arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=105636&page=2



What was with Grant Hill? Why did he make that face?

[Findog]

Regardless of the coach, the Suns are simply not built to win an NBA championship, at least not when the refs have bet the under.

Still biting pillows over what the big bad Spurs did to you?
:lol

[Findog]

If anyone in the Suns organization had any brains, they'd listen up to what Mavs fan has to say. There's a team that knows how to win when it counts.

Donnie, Avery and Cuban have more of a clue than D'Antoni and Sarver.

[da_suns_fan]

Jeremy, D'Antoni is piss-poor at handling minutes and rotations. Findog is exactly right on this issue. D'Antoni overplays Nash, Hill and Marion and underplays Skinner and Banks and, yes, even Tucker. There's zero reason the Suns rotation can't look more like this...

PG: Nash (32 Minutes), Banks (10), Barbosa (6)
SG: Bell (25), Barbosa (23)
SF: Hill (30), Marion (8), Bell (5), Tucker (5)
PF: Marion (24), Diaw (24)
C: Stoudemire (30), Skinner (18)

If push came to shove, I'd cut Tucker's minutes and play Marion five more minutes at SF and five fewer at PF, and add another five minutes to Skinner's rotation, running a Marion, Amare, Skinner frontcourt out there for a minimum of 15-to-20 minutes a game.

Marion 32 minutes
Nash 32 minutes
Amare 30 minutes
Bell 30 minutes
Hill 30 minutes
Barbosa 29 minutes
Diaw 24 minutes
Skinner 23 minutes
Banks 10 minutes

That's a solid rotation. It's as balanced as the Suns can get.

LMAO! Id love to see our fanbase reacting to Amare only playing 30 minutes a night!

Diaw needs more minutes than 24, too.

[Reggie Miller]

The problem with Amare is that mentally, he is limited to the intelligence and maturity of an early adolescent. He needs a parent.

I agree 100% with that statement. I would go on to add that he also seems to be environmentally retarded. On the bright side, I don't think he is truly developmentally disabled, meaning he may pull his head out of his ass someday. I wouldn't wager on it, though.

[NBA Junkie]

Mike D'Antoni is the biggest whiner this league has seen since Danny Ainge was an active player.

I'd feel better about the Suns chances of winning a title if they were coached by someone other than D'Antoni

[RonMexico]

Jeremy, D'Antoni is piss-poor at handling minutes and rotations. Findog is exactly right on this issue. D'Antoni overplays Nash, Hill and Marion and underplays Skinner and Banks and, yes, even Tucker. There's zero reason the Suns rotation can't look more like this...

PG: Nash (32 Minutes), Banks (10), Barbosa (6)
SG: Bell (25), Barbosa (23)
SF: Hill (30), Marion (8), Bell (5), Tucker (5)
PF: Marion (24), Diaw (24)
C: Stoudemire (30), Skinner (18)

If push came to shove, I'd cut Tucker's minutes and play Marion five more minutes at SF and five fewer at PF, and add another five minutes to Skinner's rotation, running a Marion, Amare, Skinner frontcourt out there for a minimum of 15-to-20 minutes a game.

Marion 32 minutes
Nash 32 minutes
Amare 30 minutes
Bell 30 minutes
Hill 30 minutes
Barbosa 29 minutes
Diaw 24 minutes
Skinner 23 minutes
Banks 10 minutes

That's a solid rotation. It's as balanced as the Suns can get.

That's pretty much the rotation I've run on NBA 2k8 and my boys have energy all year long, with little chance of injury too. I liked seeing Strawberry out there last night because he hustles and does a lot of little things on both ends of the court. I think D'Antoni misses the trees for the forest, if you will and doesn't realize how little mental mistakes can add up to big losses in the playoffs (aka everytime Barbosa runs the point - shooting with too much time left on the clock and giving Farmar a 3; shooting 5 times in a row instead of spreading the ball around; the list goes on with this guy at PG).

On the flip side, smart mental and hustle plays can win games in the season and the playoffs and those are the types of plays I see from Strawberry, especially defensively with his 6'5" frame and quick feet. Even though D'Antoni likes have 3,000 possessions per game, they still have 5 to 6 key ones throughout a game and it's better to win those than lose them. It's stupid to see Nash have to run everything himself out there for 35+ minutes per game.

In other news, Diaw has been great in his starter's role since Hill went out. I can't help but think that he does a great job when he starts. Not to discredit Hill or what he's done out there, but I might like to see him become the 6th man with Barbosa and let Diaw start. The team seems to play better and I've seen an incredible change in his energy these last few games. I think Hill is team-first and savvy enough to pull a Ginobili off the bench.

[da_suns_fan]

I think a lot of fans here would be great at Tony LaRussa's assistants.

Its not as easy as just dividing up the minutes in an excel spreadsheet.

Avery Johnson attempted this kind of over-managing with the Mavs and it got his team NOWHERE fast!

At some point, you have to look at everything in a REAL WORLD perspective.

We know the Suns absolutely stink with Banks in the lineup. Do you really want to keep him in the game when our team is falling further and further behind because it looks better in the boxscore?

Some might say yes if it means Banks would improve. Banks has gotten plenty of opportunity to improve! The coaches don't like him because he's always the first one out the door after practice. They question his work ethic and how much he REALLY wants to be part of the rotation. Don't forget that he was given starters minutes in Minnesota and Boston and they both like him so much that they didn't offer him a contract (SEE YA!).

As for JMarks, rotation, Id like to see how easy it is to tell guys like Raja Bell and Amare Stoudemire that their minutes are being cut so our coach won't have to take as much heat from the media.

Im also sick of people bringing up game 5 and how our bench guys weren't ready to come in play. When you lose two starters to suspensions, youre suppose to lose! Its great that they made it so close, but you can't expect miracles. D'Antoni could have played the scrubs in every game last year and they still would have been terrible.

Dont' forget that Jalen Rose, Jumaine Jones and Pat Burke are so great theyre not even in the freaking league anymore. And I've yet to see a single D'Antoni flunkee who made it with another team.

There's a reason D'Antoni doesn't play more than eight guys: The drop off from 8 to 9 is ASTRONOMICAL. Don't blame D'Antoni, blame Sarver. Or blame our top eight guys for being so freaking good.

[RonMexico]

As for JMarks, rotation, Id like to see how easy it is to tell guys like Raja Bell and Amare Stoudemire that their minutes are being cut so our coach won't have to take as much heat from the media.

I bet if he told them he was doing it to win a championship and to make them go down as immortals in Phoenix, they would buy off on it. I'm pretty sure Raja Bell would like 28-30 mins per game over 82 games instead of 35 mins per game and nagging ankle and back problems and DNPs.

Also, Jalen Rose showed great smarts and feel for the game out there, just not feel for D'Antoni's game, I guess. He got along great with his teammates and he was always willing to make the extra pass. I don't think very many people have problems with Amare, Marion, and Bell's minutes, but are concerned at how much Grant Hill and Steve Nash play out there.

Personally, I want someone to step up at the PG spot so we don't have to see Barbosa bring the ball up the court anymore. I'm so sick of that guy turning the ball over and running a terrible offense because he has only one speed: lightning. Why do the Suns lose the lead while Nash is out? Because Barbosa can put up 30 shots in 1 minute and give the other team easy fast breaks with his stupid passes. I'm not a big Damon Stoudemire fan, but signing him and putting that guy in for 20 mins per game would be a Godsend because it could move Barbosa to the 2, rest Nash, and bring in a backup PG with a knack for hitting some big shots.

[DazedAndConfused]

You simply cannot win an NBA championship without a solid bench. Suns will never get it and they will continue to never win.

[da_suns_fan]

You simply cannot win an NBA championship without a solid bench. Suns will never get it and they will continue to never win.

Most teams only play eight guys during the playoffs.

Who has a better three than Barbosa (SMOY), Diaw and Skinner?

[da_suns_fan]

I bet if he told them he was doing it to win a championship and to make them go down as immortals in Phoenix, they would buy off on it. I'm pretty sure Raja Bell would like 28-30 mins per game over 82 games instead of 35 mins per game and nagging ankle and back problems and DNPs.

Also, Jalen Rose showed great smarts and feel for the game out there, just not feel for D'Antoni's game, I guess. He got along great with his teammates and he was always willing to make the extra pass. I don't think very many people have problems with Amare, Marion, and Bell's minutes, but are concerned at how much Grant Hill and Steve Nash play out there.

Personally, I want someone to step up at the PG spot so we don't have to see Barbosa bring the ball up the court anymore. I'm so sick of that guy turning the ball over and running a terrible offense because he has only one speed: lightning. Why do the Suns lose the lead while Nash is out? Because Barbosa can put up 30 shots in 1 minute and give the other team easy fast breaks with his stupid passes. I'm not a big Damon Stoudemire fan, but signing him and putting that guy in for 20 mins per game would be a Godsend because it could move Barbosa to the 2, rest Nash, and bring in a backup PG with a knack for hitting some big shots.

1) Jalen Rose was completely worthless. His shot was terrible, he couldn't run, he couldn't play defense, he couldn't do anything.

2) I don't see the same need at the backup pg. Give Hill, Diaw and Barbosa more time to figure things out.

[Findog]

Most teams only play eight guys during the playoffs.

Who has a better three than Barbosa (SMOY), Diaw and Skinner?

Diaw sucks and he'll only give Skinner about 14 minutes a game. IMO Skinner does the dirty-work type stuff and he's a good rebounder, he should be playing closer to 25.

[Findog]

LMAO! Id love to see our fanbase reacting to Amare only playing 30 minutes a night!

He averages 32. Two minutes over the course of a season might cost the Suns a regular season win or two, but it might help in the playoffs.



Diaw needs more minutes than 24, too.

As a fan of an opposing team, I concur. Play Donuts more!

[RonMexico]

1) Jalen Rose was completely worthless. His shot was terrible, he couldn't run, he couldn't play defense, he couldn't do anything.

2) I don't see the same need at the backup pg. Give Hill, Diaw and Barbosa more time to figure things out.

He never gives Hill or Diaw a chance to figure things out and just keeps handing the ball off to Barbosa every game. Last year, I remember a specific game in which Barbosa was having a terrible time running the point (it was at Sacramento). The Suns were down all game, until the 4th when D'Antoni let Diaw take the ball up the court and get the Suns into their offense. They ended up winning the game, while executing very well down the stretch, but then we never saw Diaw in that role again, which made no sense to me.

[RonMexico]

He averages 32. Two minutes over the course of a season might cost the Suns a regular season win or two, but it might help in the playoffs.



As a fan of an opposing team, I concur. Play Donuts more!

You obviously haven't been watching Diaw play over the past few games... or you just watched the Mavs play today and then had to get on here and bitch about other teams to make yourself feel better.

[Findog]

No, I haven't been watching Diaw play the last few games. It was just more of a general comment over what has happened to him since Amare's return. He was so good in the Amare-less year and since then he's pretty much been a pussy.

[RonMexico]

1) Jalen Rose was completely worthless. His shot was terrible, he couldn't run, he couldn't play defense, he couldn't do anything.

2) I don't see the same need at the backup pg. Give Hill, Diaw and Barbosa more time to figure things out.

I guess you're the only one that doesn't see a need for a backup PG, since obviously D'Antoni sees it judging by how quickly he'll bring Nash back in the 4th when things start to stall.

[RonMexico]

What happened to Diaw? He was so good in the Amare-less year and now he plays like a timid pussy.

He has the anti-Ginobili syndrome. When he's a starter, he plays with aggression and gets more minutes out there, so his impact is greater. When he comes off the bench, however, he plays like a pussy and can disappear mentally at times.

Ginobili, on the other hand, can start or come off the bench and play great.

[Findog]

Three of his last five performances have been good, but you can't deny that he's been a huge disappointment since Amare's return. I know that they both like to set up on the left block and that's Amare's territory now, but if the Suns need a backup PG, then why the fuck isn't that Boris Diaw????

[da_suns_fan]

I guess you're the only one that doesn't see a need for a backup PG, since obviously D'Antoni sees it judging by how quickly he'll bring Nash back in the 4th when things start to stall.

Every team loses momentum when their best player isn't in the game.


I agree that Diaw needs to have a more active role controlling the offense when Nash is out. He's been much better the last week. We'll see where it goes.

[DazedAndConfused]

The reason why D'Antoni's bench sucks is because he has no idea how to develop them. Diaw IS a good player, when given minutes. His development has been hampered because D'Antoni refuses to lose regular season games in order to develop the bench.

[da_suns_fan]

The reason why D'Antoni's bench sucks is because he has no idea how to develop them. Diaw IS a good player, when given minutes. His development has been hampered because D'Antoni refuses to lose regular season games in order to develop the bench.

LMAO! Diaw won the most improved player award after a single season with D'Antoni.

Thats the worst argument I've ever heard. You truly suck as a poster.

[Findog]

Also, you can't tell me that Jalen Rose, Jumaine Jones and Pat Burke were so fuckin' terrible that it's worth running his top six into the ground. They might have won that Game Five against the Spurs if he had been willing to spell his guys just even a little, or if those guys had had playing time on a regular basis. Anybody who has ever played can tell you it's very hard to prepare yourself mentally if you know you're going to be grabbing some bench, plus there's the rust factor.

[RonMexico]

Three of his last five performances have been good, but you can't deny that he's been a huge disappointment since Amare's return. I know that they both like to set up on the left block and that's Amare's territory now, but if the Suns need a backup PG, then why the fuck isn't that Boris Diaw????

I agree. As I said above, in games were Diaw ran the point last year, the Suns played great.

D'Antoni doesn't realize that he needs to adjust his game plan when the subs are in. They can try Amare or Diaw on the low block, while running some cutters or waiting for a double team... yet he tries to run the pick and roll with people that can't do it (aka Barbosa, who probably causes more moving screen fouls for his big men by taking off well before the pick is set) and then wonders why his offense stalls. It's really not rocket science, but he makes it harder than it is. And it's not like he learns his lesson (only playing 6 guys in Game 5 of WCSF last year).

Diaw running the point or from the high post when Nash is out seems like a very simple solution to me, but I guess I'm just the idiot who has watched over 200 Suns games in the past 3 years and watched how the Lakers and Celtics utilized deep benches and fast breaks throughout the 80s to win titles.

Few things are more evident than the difference between D'Antoni and Robert Horry. Horry is the ultimate role player and has the most "non-Celtic" championship rings in NBA history. D'Antoni is so star-heavy in his rotation that it's pretty evident why his fingers have been empty these past 3 years. If D'Antoni ever coached Horry, he never would have gotten off the bench because he's not Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, Clyde Drexler, or Tim Duncan. Horry has come up huge in so many games because coaches like Rudy T, Pop, and Jackson gave him a chance out there.

[da_suns_fan]

Also, you can't tell me that Jalen Rose, Jumaine Jones and Pat Burke were so fuckin' terrible that it's worth running his top six into the ground. They might have won that Game Five against the Spurs if he had been willing to spell his guys just even a little, or if those guys had had playing time on a regular basis. Anybody who has ever played can tell you it's very hard to prepare yourself mentally if you know you're going to be grabbing some bench, plus there's the rust factor.


Or they might have lost by twenty instead of only three.

btw - Whats with all the F-bombs? Are you seriously that pissed over one loss to the Wiz?

[RonMexico]

Also, you can't tell me that Jalen Rose, Jumaine Jones and Pat Burke were so fuckin' terrible that it's worth running his top six into the ground. They might have won that Game Five against the Spurs if he had been willing to spell his guys just even a little, or if those guys had had playing time on a regular basis. Anybody who has ever played can tell you it's very hard to prepare yourself mentally if you know you're going to be grabbing some bench, plus there's the rust factor.

Jalen Rose was awesome when he actually played last year. He made a lot of great plays and hustled after some loose balls. He wasn't the greatest one-on-one defender, but he wasn't asked to guard Kobe, either. That's also why it's good the NBA has allowed zone defense.

If they keep wondering why there are chemistry issues, I have to think it's because the bench guys all know they're not gonna get any time out there and they're probably mopy on the bench.

Also, I don't think it's difficult to see how bad D'Antoni is when it comes to a management role: whether it's managing time (6-man rotation in Game 5) or a team (2 signings: Marcus Banks, and Eric Piatkowski get no playing time; a 3rd - Jumaine Jones - is not with the team).

[Findog]

Few things are more evident than the difference between D'Antoni and Robert Horry. Horry is the ultimate role player and has the most "non-Celtic" championship rings in NBA history. D'Antoni is so star-heavy in his rotation that it's pretty evident why his fingers have been empty these past 3 years. If D'Antoni ever coached Horry, he never would have gotten off the bench because he's not Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, Clyde Drexler, or Tim Duncan. Horry has come up huge in so many games because coaches like Rudy T, Pop, and Jackson gave him a chance out there.

Yeah, D'Antoni wants to put five scorers on the floor at all times. What he doesn't realize is that four scoring options is plenty. I think a front-court tandem of Skinner at the five and Amare at the four would be great. I'm not about to argue that Erick Dampier is a great player or he's earning his ten million a year, but he rebounds, he can body up opposing bigs, and it's not a layup line for the opposition when he's in there. What would it hurt to experiment a little and see if Skinner can have a similar impact in a similar role for Phoenix for about 25 minutes a game? You need role players too. You put five "stars" on the court, somebody's not going to get the touches and numbers that they might overwise get, their production is going to get cannibalized, and then where are you? What else can that player give you if their main contribution is scoring? There was a pretty telling comment from that 7 seconds or less book, when the Suns are getting ready to play the Mavs in the conference finals, and D'Antoni says of Dampier, " I think it's a rule that you have to play a bad player if he's making $70 million." Which leads me to think that Dampier would also be tethered to the bench if he wore purple and orange.

[DazedAndConfused]

I think it's safe to say D'Antoni doesn't have a clue about a lot of things. With all the talent on the Suns it's amazing that they have never even reached the NBA Finals. You give Phil Jackson that same lineup and he'd have a few more rings by now.

And the only reason Diaw won most improved player was because AMARE GOT INJURED. He would have never seen minutes had Amare not went down. Man you really are dense. There is no point arguing with any Sun's fan I guess, you guys have never won a championship and will never know what it takes to get there.

[yourcheatinheart]

I think it's safe to say D'Antoni doesn't have a clue about a lot of things. With all the talent on the Suns it's amazing that they have never even reached the NBA Finals. You give Phil Jackson that same lineup and he'd have a few more rings by now.

And the only reason Diaw won most improved player was because AMARE GOT INJURED. He would have never seen minutes had Amare not went down. Man you really are dense. There is no point arguing with any Sun's fan I guess, you guys have never won a championship and will never know what it takes to get there.


http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/meeks4president/raped7.jpg

[RonMexico]

What's even more telling is that last night, Dan Majerle was practically pleading for more minutes out of DJ Strawberry during the broadcast by saying that he should get a lot of playing time out there because there's 4 scorers on the court and he can make such an impact on the defensive end.

Again, it's D'Antoni missing the bigger picture of the game out there because he doesn't realize that Strawberry can pester the opposing PG and help the Suns get stops much like role players such as Darrell Armstrong, Quinton Ross, Bruce Bowen, Derek Fisher, etc. can disrupt Nash's rhythm.

[da_suns_fan]

What's even more telling is that last night, Dan Majerle was practically pleading for more minutes out of DJ Strawberry during the broadcast by saying that he should get a lot of playing time out there because there's 4 scorers on the court and he can make such an impact on the defensive end.

Again, it's D'Antoni missing the bigger picture of the game out there because he doesn't realize that Strawberry can pester the opposing PG and help the Suns get stops much like role players such as Darrell Armstrong, Quinton Ross, Bruce Bowen, Derek Fisher, etc. can disrupt Nash's rhythm.

First of all, Derek Fisher couldn't stop Nash from getting 20 freaking assists the other day.

Darrell Armstrong? Does he even play anymore?

I think I know where youre going but those are bad examples.

Quinton Ross and Bruce Bowen are a lot closer to Raja Bell than they are to DJ Strawberry. Its not really a fair comparison.

Ask the Spurs if they wouldn't mind trading Bruce Bowen for DJ Strawberry. Same with the Clippers and Ross.

Hell, I'd be surprised if ANYBODY is interested in Strawberry for any type of trade. There was a reason that he was one of the last players taken in the second round.

I think your desire to see more of the guy stems from the fact that we've seen so much of our top six. Youre just hungry for some change.

Funny that we have Mavs and Laker fans jumping on the "D'Antoni sucks" bandwagon.

Both teams were ELIMINATED last year by teams playing at an up tempo pace.

Theyre just bitter.


Banks doesn't deserve to be in the rotation. Neither does Strawberry.

[da_suns_fan]

I think it's safe to say D'Antoni doesn't have a clue about a lot of things. With all the talent on the Suns it's amazing that they have never even reached the NBA Finals. You give Phil Jackson that same lineup and he'd have a few more rings by now.

And the only reason Diaw won most improved player was because AMARE GOT INJURED. He would have never seen minutes had Amare not went down. Man you really are dense. There is no point arguing with any Sun's fan I guess, you guys have never won a championship and will never know what it takes to get there.

Funny. Those first two years of Diaw's career, Amare wasn't even in the same conference and Diaw STILL couldn't get off the bench for the worst team in the NBA.

Also, Diaw's production is NOT a product of how many minutes he plays. He could play 40 minutes in one game and do nothing and play 25 minutes the next night and be effective.

Further, Amare is on the team now and Diaw still gets a lot of minutes.

In fact, this season he's averaging 27 minutes a game.

MOTHER OF ALL OWNAGE: Diaw is the seventh man for the Suns and still gets more minutes per game than anyone on the LAKERS besides Kobe, Odom and Bynum!! :lol :lol

Too easy.

[DazedAndConfused]

You're not owning anybody moron. The fact is D'Antoni has no idea how to properly develop a bench and this has and will cost him if the Suns manage to go deep into the playoffs. No defense, no rebounding, no bench = NO FUCKING CHAMPIONSHIP. Until D'Antoni changes his philosophy or you get a new coach your team will never win anything. Enjoy those 50+ regular season wins though, damn that must be so exciting!!!

[RonMexico]

First of all, Derek Fisher couldn't stop Nash from getting 20 freaking assists the other day.

Darrell Armstrong? Does he even play anymore?

I think I know where youre going but those are bad examples.

Quinton Ross and Bruce Bowen are a lot closer to Raja Bell than they are to DJ Strawberry. Its not really a fair comparison.

Ask the Spurs if they wouldn't mind trading Bruce Bowen for DJ Strawberry. Same with the Clippers and Ross.

Hell, I'd be surprised if ANYBODY is interested in Strawberry for any type of trade. There was a reason that he was one of the last players taken in the second round.

I think your desire to see more of the guy stems from the fact that we've seen so much of our top six. Youre just hungry for some change.

Funny that we have Mavs and Laker fans jumping on the "D'Antoni sucks" bandwagon.

Both teams were ELIMINATED last year by teams playing at an up tempo pace.

Theyre just bitter.


Banks doesn't deserve to be in the rotation. Neither does Strawberry.

Is this D'Antoni posting? I can't believe this is the real DSF, it sounds more link Da_SunsDynasty than anything else... unless that's the schtick.

[DazedAndConfused]

Is this D'Antoni posting? I can't believe this is the real DSF, it sounds more link Da_SunsDynasty than anything else... unless that's the schtick.

The Suns have an amazingly talented roster lead by an amazingly stupid coach. You put Larry Brown, Pop, or Phil Jackson in charge and that team wins rings. There is no excuse to lose games to the T-Wolves, Heat, etc. when your starting 5 is

Nash
Bell
Stoudemire
Hill
Marion

4 out of the 5 are legitimate all-stars or were all-stars at one point.

[da_suns_fan]

You're not owning anybody moron. The fact is D'Antoni has no idea how to properly develop a bench and this has and will cost him if the Suns manage to go deep into the playoffs. No defense, no rebounding, no bench = NO FUCKING CHAMPIONSHIP. Until D'Antoni changes his philosophy or you get a new coach your team will never win anything. Enjoy those 50+ regular season wins though, damn that must be so exciting!!!

You just got owned pal. Let it go.

btw - They're actually 60+ regular season wins, and beating the Lakers every year is pretty exciting. :lol

[da_suns_fan]

Is this D'Antoni posting? I can't believe this is the real DSF, it sounds more link Da_SunsDynasty than anything else... unless that's the schtick.

I understand your frustrations Ron...I definately have a problem with the lack of minutes that Skinner has gotten, especially considering how bad our rebounding has been.

But getting upset that he hasn't given consistent minutes to a late second round pick who's in the first half of his first season is kind of crazy. The kid has some potential, but at this point he's (Strawberry) just trying to make it in the league.

Think about that. How many of our guys on the end of the bench wouldn't be in the league if they got cut?

Would anyone go after Marks, Banks, Piatowski, Strawberry or Tucker or would they be playing for Macab Tel Aviv?

I remember during preseason a lot of our base was drinking the Sean Marks kool aid and I just rolled my eyes. That guy absolutely stinks. But so many die hard Suns fans are always convinced that we have several "diamonds in the rough" not being used on the bench.

FinDog's example of Jalen Rose is ridiculous. Jalen Rose was flat out awful when he got any time last year.

What about Jimmy Jackson? Everyone was pissed that D'Antoni benched him, but he couldn't get any time on the Lakers after the Suns cut him either.

Burke? Paul Shirley? Jake Voskhul? Casey Jacobsen? Which one of our bench players do you think deserved (or deserves) more time?

It would help out youre (and everyone else who feels this way) argument if you could name just one player who proved D'Antoni wrong. Which player went on to bigger things once he left D'Antoni or once D'Antoni started giving him an opportunity?

[JMarkJohns]

Rose averaged 3.7 ppg, 0.8 rpg and 0.6 apg in 8.5 minutes per game.

That's a 30 minute per game average of 13 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2 apg with 44% from the field, 45% from range and a 2/1 assist/turnover ratio.

That's as a non-option to boot. Had he been given the ball and allowed to isolate off the dribble the way Hill is allowed, I'd bet his PPG and APG would be closer to 15 ppg, 4 apg or roughly what Hill is averaging in 35 minutes per game this season.

For comparison sake, Diaw last season, in 31 minutes per game, averaged only 9.5 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg on 53% from the field and 33% from range.

Rose had better per minute averages in scoring and a stronger 3-point FG% by nearly 12%.

Rose easily could have been given 15-to-20 minutes a night, and with those minutes he'd have scored 8-10 ppg and, with backup PG duties, would have likely averaged 3/4 assists.

We'll never truly know why Rose was played more often, but you can stop saying it was because he sucked when given minutes, because his per-minute scoring is better than that of Diaw's and nearly equal to that of Hill's this season, and his 3-point FG% of 45% was one of the best on the team.

[DazedAndConfused]

You just got owned pal. Let it go.

btw - They're actually 60+ regular season wins, and beating the Lakers every year is pretty exciting. :lol

Beating a Laker team that was in rebuilding mode for the last two years is exciting? Wow you sure have some low expectations.....

The reality is your window for a championship is closed. Last year was your year to win it all and your stupid players blew it by getting suspended. Enjoy the dismantling of your team in the offseason and the eventual demise of Steve Nash in 2 years.

[da_suns_fan]

Rose averaged 3.7 ppg, 0.8 rpg and 0.6 apg in 8.5 minutes per game.

That's a 30 minute per game average of 13 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2 apg with 44% from the field, 45% from range and a 2/1 assist/turnover ratio.
That's as a non-option to boot. Had he been given the ball and allowed to isolate off the dribble the way Hill is allowed, I'd bet his PPG and APG would be closer to 15 ppg, 4 apg or roughly what Hill is averaging in 35 minutes per game this season.

For comparison sake, Diaw last season, in 31 minutes per game, averaged only 9.5 ppg, 5 rpg, 4 apg on 53% from the field and 33% from range.

Rose had better per minute averages in scoring and a stronger 3-point FG% by nearly 12%.

Rose easily could have been given 15-to-20 minutes a night, and with those minutes he'd have scored 8-10 ppg and, with backup PG duties, would have likely averaged 3/4 assists.

We'll never truly know why Rose was played more often, but you can stop saying it was because he sucked when given minutes, because his per-minute scoring is better than that of Diaw's and nearly equal to that of Hill's this season, and his 3-point FG% of 45% was one of the best on the team.

I think its quite a stretch to believe that any player's (especially old players) productivity per minutes remains the same if they play 8 minutes or 30 minutes.

Not to mention the fact that he usually got these eight minutes in blowout games against other scrubs.

Banks currently has the second best three point shooting percentage on the team, should he be givien twenty mintues per game as well?

I was shaking my head at your post until I read the Jalen Rose/Grant Hill analogy. Thats when I just laughed.

You don't REALLY believe Rose would have been just as productive as Hill had he been given Hill-type minutes do you?

If thats true, then D'Antoni's not dumb, every other team in the league is screwing up by not having a Hill-type player on their team right now!

Like what Grant Hill is doing for the Suns? Rose is available!

Seriously. Tell me your joking.

[da_suns_fan]

Beating a Laker team that was in rebuilding mode for the last two years is exciting? Wow you sure have some low expectations.....

The reality is your window for a championship is closed. Last year was your year to win it all and your stupid players blew it by getting suspended. Enjoy the dismantling of your team in the offseason and the eventual demise of Steve Nash in 2 years.

Kudos to acknowledging the Suns would have won it all had it not been for the suspensions. A lot of Suns haters won't do that.

We got two more years of Nash? Sweet. Possible three-peat, then?

[JMarkJohns]

At age 33 Rose averaged 12.9 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.5 apg in 28 minutes per game. I just showed that at age 34, with the Suns, Rose's per-minute averages were spot on to those of the season prior.

Rose had plenty in the tank. D'Antoni just never got around to using it.

As for Banks, I think he should easily be getting 15 minutes or so a game. He's a tough on-ball defender and can sink the open three. He doesn't have to be the initiator on offense all the time, but having him play 15-to-20 minutes a game wouldn't be bad at all. Stagger the minutes so he's playing more in the first half than the second. Something like 10-to-12 minutes in the first half, then 5-to-8 in the second.

It's hardly something that shoudln' be done, like you seemingly infer.

[DazedAndConfused]

Kudos to acknowledging the Suns would have won it all had it not been for the suspensions. A lot of Suns haters won't do that.

We got two more years of Nash? Sweet. Possible three-peat, then?

Ironically the best thing that could happen for the Suns is for them to not win it all this year. Fire D'Antoni, tell your cheap ass owner to stop selling draft picks and letting valuable role players go, and bring in a defensive minded coach.

[da_suns_fan]

At age 33 Rose averaged 12.9 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.5 apg in 28 minutes per game. I just showed that at age 34, with the Suns, Rose's per-minute averages were spot on to those of the season prior.

Rose had plenty in the tank. D'Antoni just never got around to using it.

As for Banks, I think he should easily be getting 15 minutes or so a game. He's a tough on-ball defender and can sink the open three. He doesn't have to be the initiator on offense all the time, but having him play 15-to-20 minutes a game wouldn't be bad at all. Stagger the minutes so he's playing more in the first half than the second. Something like 10-to-12 minutes in the first half, then 5-to-8 in the second.

It's hardly something that shoudln' be done, like you seemingly infer.

If Rose had plenty left in the tank, why is he retired this year?

Banks has been given PLENTY of opportunities to prove he can play.

Its not just D'Antoni. Why did Minnesota and Boston give up on him if he's so capable of being productive?

Ive heard that the coaching staff feels that Banks just doesn't understand the flow of the game. He takes ill advised shots in a some situations and passes up open one in others. He's too much of a liability to play night in and night out.

Last week, it was Banks (WE SHOULD PLAY HIM MORE). Then Banks goes out and stinks up and now everyone wants more of Strawberry.

Im not saying the Strawberry can't be a good player some day, but Im not drinking the kool-aid like a lot of other people either. He's a late 2nd round draft pick in his first season. Lets wait a little while before chastizing our coaching staff for not playing him every game.

[da_suns_fan]

Ironically the best thing that could happen for the Suns is for them to not win it all this year. Fire D'Antoni, tell your cheap ass owner to stop selling draft picks and letting valuable role players go, and bring in a defensive minded coach.

Wait...you JUST said the Suns should have won it all last year. Surely the coach is doing something right for that to be true. :lol

[JMarkJohns]

WTF did D'Antoni sign Banks to a rediculous 5 year, $20+ million deal if it was a foregone conclusion that he couldn't play? Why did he lobby for, then sign Rose right after?

Both were D'Antoni signings, so one can reason they were D'Antoni guys. Hell, Mike D even claimed Banks was his #1 PG target all along after losing out on John Salmons. A quote that's laughable, not just for its absurdity, but for its pointing out that D'Antoni is a terrible evaluator of talent.

Why is Rose not playing any more? I don't know. Perhaps he likes looking good ever other day on TV and getting paid for it. But the per-minute averages clearly show that he didn't lose what he had at age 33 once he turned 34 and donned a Suns uni.

D'Antoni wined 'em and signed 'em. Where is his fault for even bringing them in if both were/are so terrible?

[da_suns_fan]

WTF did D'Antoni sign Banks to a rediculous 5 year, $20+ million deal if it was a foregone conclusion that he couldn't play? Why did he lobby for, then sign Rose right after?

Both were D'Antoni signings, so one can reason they were D'Antoni guys. Hell, Mike D even claimed Banks was his #1 PG target all along after losing out on John Salmons. A quote that's laughable, not just for its absurdity, but for its pointing out that D'Antoni is a terrible evaluator of talent.

Why is Rose not playing any more? I don't know. Perhaps he likes looking good ever other day on TV and getting paid for it. But the per-minute averages clearly show that he didn't lose what he had at age 33 once he turned 34 and donned a Suns uni.

D'Antoni wined 'em and signed 'em. Where is his fault for even bringing them in if both were/are so terrible?

Was signing Banks a mistake? Absolutely.

But here's the thing: D'Antoni never asked to be the GM. I blame that on Sarver.

Not only did we miss out on Salmons, but we made two critical errors in signing Banks and Diaw to long term extentions. It was a bad summer. I completely agree.

Their number one priority for that year was to get a backup point guard for Nash.

Salmons would have fit in beautifully. He plays three positions and its easy to see how he could have gotten a LOT of minutes on this team.

Unfortunately, Bryan Colangelo took that little secret with him to Toronto.

I heard a radio interview with Sarver in which Sarver stated he prioritized giving money to the players first, coaches second and GM third. I thought "you moron, a bad GM can cost you millions upon millions in bad player contracts" (see the New York Knicks).

So D'Antoni panicked. He what looked to be the best available player available and a lot of Suns fans applauded that move when it happened. Same with Diaw.

It didn't work out. D'Antoni isn't the GM anymore so we won't have to worry about him. Now we get the Kerr/Sarver spin machine.

[RonMexico]

DSF, Jr. you're basing all of your arguments ("show me why these scrubs haven't proved D'Antoni wrong yet!") on the idea that NBA GMs and coaches are intelligent individuals and good evaluators of talent.

#57 pick in the NBA draft = Manu Ginobili
#28 pick in the NBA draft = Tony Parker

Rings Ginobili and Parker have = 3 each (with 1 Finals MVP award)
Rings Popovich and RC Buford have = 4 each

(I guess late first and second rounders like Tucker and Strawberry are destined for failure.) What's great is that Tucker is putting up monster scoring numbers in the D-League, but will never get on the floor because he won't spot up behind the 3 point line like James Jones... well Grant Hill has a great midrange game and I think Tucker could as well.

Number of 60-win seasons Mike D'Antoni has with Suns = 2
Number of rings he has so far = 0

Number of lottery picks Isiah Thomas/Billy King/Rob Babcock/Elgin Baylor/Kevin McHale have to their names = too many to count.

Casey Jacobsen is actually back in the league (playing for the Grizzlies, so it's not that glamorous, but he's back after 2 yrs in Europe). With him playing on the Grizz, it makes me think that Ivaroni may have liked him more in Phoenix than D'Antoni did and has brought him back.

Paul Shirley would much rather blog and listen to Interpol than play basketball. I never drank the "Marks kool-aid," so you could be onto something there. I also liked Pat Burke, but felt he was on too short of a leash and would get nervous, so it's not like I called for him every game. I definitely called on him to provide Amare with defensive help and keep him out of foul trouble, but I guess that would be too much to ask. How D'Antoni doesn't realize that Amare is a magnet for bad calls from the officials is beyond me. Maybe it would be a good idea to protect him with Skinner in there and keep him in the flow of the game.

This is especially important because D'Antoni keeps wanting to "find" more minutes for Skinner and doesn't want to "disrupt the flow" of the game. Nothing disrupts the flow more than Amare picking up two quick fouls, getting frustrated, and then having him try to force things on the offensive end (aka the ball "sticks" when it gets to him). Suns are something like 15-1 when Amare scores over 20 pts (lone loss to the , and what's a better way to get him points than to put him at the 5 on offense and the 4 on defense and let Skinner get in there and bang, especially since he's the better defensive rebounder while Amare is the better finisher on the break. Putting him at the 4 on defense can leave Skinner to rebound, Amare and Marion can get out on the break and Bell/Barbosa can be the trailers. If Amare gets upset or in foul trouble on the defensive end, then he starts to force way too much because he's afraid of limited (aka foul-plagued) minutes... guess what, I think that would mess up D'Antoni's precious "flow” quite a bit regardless.

No one makes the game work more smoothly than Steve Nash, so let him get out there with two big men who can set strong screens and nail the 15-foot jumper (Skinner and Amare), while letting Marion and Hill roam around, Bell/Barbosa spot up and letting Diaw do whatever when he feels like being a good player instead of a fatass. When you're matched up against another team without a strong post player, but 1-2 strong perimeter players, then throw Strawberry/Banks out there to pester guys like Cassell and Parker, while letting Nash sit on Quinton Ross/Bowen and leaving Marion to help Amare with rebounding from the 4 position instead of having Shawn guard a smaller guy.

D'Antoni doesn't understand that you can have 4 scorers out there and one or two guys to get quality stops and still run people out of the building… in fact, the Lakers and Celtics did it for years, with guys like Dennis Johnson and Michael Cooper. No one is worse at making adjustments than Mike D’Antoni and that’s a fact. This is absolutely why the Suns have to keep worrying about “chemistry” issues and working to “motivate” themselves. I’m pretty sure Pop is a good motivator… from what I’ve seen, Mike D isn’t… Pop trusts his players to make manageable mistakes over the course of an 82-game season… D’Antoni will bring in Nash with 10 minutes left in the 4th of a meaningless Eastern Conference game instead of letting his guys gain some experience on the court. This is why I couldn’t be the Suns’ beat writer, because I would actually make “unpopular” claims that I would hope would improve the team because I want them to win at title… we don’t need to be like New York fans who bitch about everything, but we could show a little constructive criticism from time to time.

[Findog]

Kudos to acknowledging the Suns would have won it all had it not been for the suspensions.


:lmao

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070117

I forgot, the Suns approached "that hallowed level" last year.

:lmao



They're a juggernaut with a terrific coach


:lmao


and no real holes other than a thin bench.

Well at least he got that part right.

:lmao

[da_suns_fan]

DSF, Jr. you're basing all of your arguments ("show me why these scrubs haven't proved D'Antoni wrong yet!") on the idea that NBA GMs and coaches are intelligent individuals and good evaluators of talent.

#57 pick in the NBA draft = Manu Ginobili
#28 pick in the NBA draft = Tony Parker

Rings Ginobili and Parker have = 3 each (with 1 Finals MVP award)
Rings Popovich and RC Buford have = 4 each

(I guess late first and second rounders like Tucker and Strawberry are destined for failure.) What's great is that Tucker is putting up monster scoring numbers in the D-League, but will never get on the floor because he won't spot up behind the 3 point line like James Jones... well Grant Hill has a great midrange game and I think Tucker could as well.

Number of 60-win seasons Mike D'Antoni has with Suns = 2
Number of rings he has so far = 0

Number of lottery picks Isiah Thomas/Billy King/Rob Babcock/Elgin Baylor/Kevin McHale have to their names = too many to count.

Casey Jacobsen is actually back in the league (playing for the Grizzlies, so it's not that glamorous, but he's back after 2 yrs in Europe). With him playing on the Grizz, it makes me think that Ivaroni may have liked him more in Phoenix than D'Antoni did and has brought him back.

Paul Shirley would much rather blog and listen to Interpol than play basketball. I never drank the "Marks kool-aid," so you could be onto something there. I also liked Pat Burke, but felt he was on too short of a leash and would get nervous, so it's not like I called for him every game. I definitely called on him to provide Amare with defensive help and keep him out of foul trouble, but I guess that would be too much to ask. How D'Antoni doesn't realize that Amare is a magnet for bad calls from the officials is beyond me. Maybe it would be a good idea to protect him with Skinner in there and keep him in the flow of the game.

This is especially important because D'Antoni keeps wanting to "find" more minutes for Skinner and doesn't want to "disrupt the flow" of the game. Nothing disrupts the flow more than Amare picking up two quick fouls, getting frustrated, and then having him try to force things on the offensive end (aka the ball "sticks" when it gets to him). Suns are something like 15-1 when Amare scores over 20 pts (lone loss to the , and what's a better way to get him points than to put him at the 5 on offense and the 4 on defense and let Skinner get in there and bang, especially since he's the better defensive rebounder while Amare is the better finisher on the break. Putting him at the 4 on defense can leave Skinner to rebound, Amare and Marion can get out on the break and Bell/Barbosa can be the trailers. If Amare gets upset or in foul trouble on the defensive end, then he starts to force way too much because he's afraid of limited (aka foul-plagued) minutes... guess what, I think that would mess up D'Antoni's precious "flow” quite a bit regardless.

No one makes the game work more smoothly than Steve Nash, so let him get out there with two big men who can set strong screens and nail the 15-foot jumper (Skinner and Amare), while letting Marion and Hill roam around, Bell/Barbosa spot up and letting Diaw do whatever when he feels like being a good player instead of a fatass. When you're matched up against another team without a strong post player, but 1-2 strong perimeter players, then throw Strawberry/Banks out there to pester guys like Cassell and Parker, while letting Nash sit on Quinton Ross/Bowen and leaving Marion to help Amare with rebounding from the 4 position instead of having Shawn guard a smaller guy.

D'Antoni doesn't understand that you can have 4 scorers out there and one or two guys to get quality stops and still run people out of the building… in fact, the Lakers and Celtics did it for years, with guys like Dennis Johnson and Michael Cooper. No one is worse at making adjustments than Mike D’Antoni and that’s a fact. This is absolutely why the Suns have to keep worrying about “chemistry” issues and working to “motivate” themselves. I’m pretty sure Pop is a good motivator… from what I’ve seen, Mike D isn’t… Pop trusts his players to make manageable mistakes over the course of an 82-game season… D’Antoni will bring in Nash with 10 minutes left in the 4th of a meaningless Eastern Conference game instead of letting his guys gain some experience on the court. This is why I couldn’t be the Suns’ beat writer, because I would actually make “unpopular” claims that I would hope would improve the team because I want them to win at title… we don’t need to be like New York fans who bitch about everything, but we could show a little constructive criticism from time to time.

I agree with MOST of what you said (and you said A LOT). Skinner should get more time along side Amare for all the reasons you stated.

However, how can you compare Tucker and Strawberry to Ginobili and Parker at this time?

Ginobili was drafted in the late second round in 1999. He didn't play a minute for the Spurs until 2002 (he went back to Europe). I doubt he would have been part of Popovic's regular rotation back in 1999.

And for every Ginobili, how many guys in the second round never make it? Im guessing something over 70% is accurate.

Are you really comparing these two scrubs to Dennis Johnson? Im not saying Strawberry won't make it in the league, Im just saying he still looks like a second round draft pick.

Also, you want to bring in Banks/Strawberry to guard strong wing players AND keep Nash in (you said Nash can guard the Bowens/Rosses of the world)?

Who do you want to take out? Is Strawberry/Banks that much more effective than Grant Hill? Do what they bring on defense make up for how much of a better all around player Grant Hill is?

And even in your scenario, your only talking about playing Strawberry/Banks in games against teams with weak front courts but strong backcourts. Sounds like your rotation would generally be just as short as D'Antoni's with the only major change is more minutes for Brian Skinner (which Im all for).

Its a lot tougher than it looks, especially considering how talented the Suns' top seven are. NO ONE IN THE LEAGUE EVEN COMES CLOSE!!!!

[Findog]

I hope you realize dsf that it's unrealistic to expect the guys on the bench to produce as well as the starters, that's why they ride pine. Nobody is arguing the Suns bench was full of worldbeaters, but the Suns would be better off sacrificing a few regular season wins and a couple of places in the seedings in order to keep minutes down for the guys they depend on.

[Findog]

especially considering how talented the Suns' top seven are. NO ONE IN THE LEAGUE EVEN COMES CLOSE!!!!

Diaw for whatever reason hasn't adjusted well to Amare's return, his last few games notwithstanding. Bell doesn't seem as effective as he was a couple of years ago. The Suns themselves just aren't as imposing as they have been.

[da_suns_fan]

:lmao

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070117

I forgot, the Suns approached "that hallowed level" last year.

:lmao

:lmao

Well at least he got that part right.

:lmao

Jealousy forum.

Im hoping KG wins the MVP award this year. That way when the Suns and Celtics meet in the finals, the USA Today spread will have a shot of the two two-time-mvps going at each other for their first title.

What a great series it will be. And talk about great for the league!

[da_suns_fan]

Diaw for whatever reason hasn't adjusted well to Amare's return, his last few games notwithstanding. Bell doesn't seem as effective as he was a couple of years ago. The Suns themselves just aren't as imposing as they have been.

Eh....Bell has been great lately. Check the game logs.

[Findog]

Jealousy forum.

Jealous of what? Neither the Mavs or Suns have won it all, but in their current incarnations, Dallas has come closer.


Im hoping KG wins the MVP award this year.

Who cares about that award? Duncan is the best big, Kobe or LeBron is the best wing/guard. Nobody else has any business being crowned MVP. Nash's MVPs are a joke, as is Dirk's.


That way when the Suns and Celtics meet in the finals, the USA Today spread will have a shot of the two two-time-mvps going at each other for their first title.


You're probably going to have to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger, because it's going to be Detroit and San Antonio again.



What a great series it will be. And talk about great for the league!

You might as well talk about a Grizzlies-Sixers Finals. I like Boston's chances to reach the Finals much more than Phoenix though. Phoenix couldn't beat San Antonio if their life depended on it. Now, if Dallas took care of the Spurs for them, then Phoenix might have a shot. But I don't think the Suns can beat Boston in a seven-game series. Boston can actually play defense and they would pound Phoenix on the boards.

[da_suns_fan]

Jealous of what? Neither the Mavs or Suns have won it all, but in their current incarnations, Dallas has come closer.

Who cares about that award? Duncan is the best big, Kobe or LeBron is the best wing/guard. Nobody else has any business being crowned MVP. Nash's MVPs are a joke, as is Dirk's.

You're probably going to have to put a gun in your mouth and pull the trigger, because it's going to be Detroit and San Antonio again.

You might as well talk about a Grizzlies-Sixers Finals. I like Boston's chances to reach the Finals much more than Phoenix though. Phoenix couldn't beat San Antonio if their life depended on it. Now, if Dallas took care of the Spurs for them, then Phoenix might have a shot. But I don't think the Suns can beat Boston in a seven-game series. Boston can actually play defense and they would pound Phoenix on the boards.

Wow....why don't you fax all the teams this post and we can cancel the rest of the season.

Im pretty sure the Suns are more than capable of beating the Spurs in a seven game series. Especially if Grant Hill stays healthy. He adds a new dimension to their game.

It appears that the Suns are about to start firing on all cylinders. Amare took almost two months to get back to where he was last year after that knee surgery during training camp.

I think we might see the Suns approach their potential next month.

[Findog]

Wow....why don't you fax all the teams this post and we can cancel the rest of the season.

Im pretty sure the Suns are more than capable of beating the Spurs in a seven game series. Especially if Grant Hill stays healthy. He adds a new dimension to their game.

It appears that the Suns are about to start firing on all cylinders. Amare took almost two months to get back to where he was last year after that knee surgery during training camp.

I think we might see the Suns approach their potential next month.

I think Phoenix has a puncher's chance of beating San Antonio, and I think Dallas has a puncher's chance of beating Phoenix. We'll see what happens. The Suns weaknesses' are their coach and his refusal to use his bench, the lack of a reliable backup for Nash, their propensity for being outrebounded and they don't play good enough team defense. Of course, Skinner would help with the rebounds and Diaw would make a great backup PG, but apparently that thought has never occured to MDT.

Dallas hasn't been a good road team and they don't get enough consistent low-post scoring, the addition of Bass notwithstanding. And their defense isn't as good as it was last year.

San Antonio of course you have to wonder about their role players outside of the Big Three. Can they get consistent contributions from all of their old guys? Horry, Bowen, Finley, Barry, and Vaughn are all on the wrong side of 33. We'll see what happens. The gap between Dal/Phx/Sas and the rest of the conference has narrowed, and they each have their flaws.

[DazedAndConfused]

The Suns will never make it out of the WCF with the team they have now. Yes they can put up a great offensive game every 3rd game or so, but when the shots aren't falling they don't have a great defense to keep them in games. Even when they build up 10-15 pt leads they are never in the clear because they give them up just as quickly. I would even say their defense has gotten worse this year since they let go of Kurt Thomas.

Teams that can slow it down and pound the paint can expose the Suns over a 7 game series. Utah, SAS, and the Lakers all have the capability to do so. Even if the Suns miraculously make it out of the WC, they would have a very tough time beating DET or BOS.

[JMarkJohns]

The Suns will never make it out of the WCF with the team they have now.

I think they can, but it's heavily contingent upon D'Antoni seeing the light, them developing or netting a quality backup PG, using a Marion/Amare/Skinner frontcourt much more often and sustained health and energy from Nash, Hill, Marion and Amare, of course is heavily dependant on a backup PG and Skinner being used more.

They can, but D'Antoni is the lynchpin. If he pulls the same shit he's been pulling, then the whole playoffs fall apart for the Suns.

However that said, if they hadn't sold off Thomas and Jones I'd be much more upbeat about their chances, which, as of now, I say is 40-60. With Thomas, Jones, Hill and, maybe, Skinner, I'd say it's easily 50-50 and maybe even a slight advantage to the Suns.

[DazedAndConfused]

That's gotta be the most frustrating thing if you're a Suns fan. Your team just needs a few small pieces to plug in the gaping defensive holes and you'd be damn near unstoppable. Why your owner doesn't make the moves baffles me.

[RonMexico]

And for every Ginobili, how many guys in the second round never make it? Im guessing something over 70% is accurate.

You should mean - how many high lottery and first round draft picks never make it.

There are two 2nd rounders that have been on the USA Basketball team - Boozer and Redd. Look at guys like Nikolaz, Shawn Bradley, Mike Dunleavy (with his first team), Tyrus Thomas (I think his poor attitude is going to get him out of the league real quick), Patrick O'Bryant... there are plenty of diamonds in the rough to be found in the 2nd round... especially since guys who go late in the rounds get on better teams and are able to learn from established players in front of them for a few years.

You can't discredit what kind of energy a guy like Strawberry will bring to the floor each night as he's trying to prove himself. Experience during the regular season will only help if his number is called in the playoffs where match-ups in a 7 game series are very important (see: Golden State vs. Dallas in 2007). It's just dumb to let a guy like that who obviously has little fear on the defensive end to ride the pine all year.

We all know that D'Antoni has notoriously short practices to preserve the older guys like Hill and Nash, so he's not going to pick up much unless he's on the floor. Banks's confidence is so low that he's pretty much worthless now, and his work ethic has been called into question by many teams before (Boston/Minnesota). But when guys like Banks and Strawberry get on the floor and provide some energy, then it galvenizes the whole team, adds that "missing" chemistry and helps the Suns prevent losses to shit teams like Miami and Minnesota. Brian Skinner almost single-handedly salvaged the Miami game at home with his energy and if it weren't for a God-like performance from Nash during the final minutes in Miami, the Suns were in danger of losing that game too (which btw, is a game where Amare got frustrated over foul calls and was tossed with 2 techs... bringing me back to my earlier point about giving him some defensive help early to spark his offense).

Also, I know that I said having Skinner in there helps Amare down low, but also having a strong perimeter defender can prevent the guards from getting to the bucket and prevent Amare from picking up ticky-tack fouls trying to help. Then again, Mike didn't win titles in the Italian league 100 years ago by playing defense, so why should he do it in the NBA?

[da_suns_fan]

You should mean - how many high lottery and first round draft picks never make it.

There are two 2nd rounders that have been on the USA Basketball team - Boozer and Redd. Look at guys like Nikolaz, Shawn Bradley, Mike Dunleavy (with his first team), Tyrus Thomas (I think his poor attitude is going to get him out of the league real quick), Patrick O'Bryant... there are plenty of diamonds in the rough to be found in the 2nd round... especially since guys who go late in the rounds get on better teams and are able to learn from established players in front of them for a few years.

You can't discredit what kind of energy a guy like Strawberry will bring to the floor each night as he's trying to prove himself. Experience during the regular season will only help if his number is called in the playoffs where match-ups in a 7 game series are very important (see: Golden State vs. Dallas in 2007). It's just dumb to let a guy like that who obviously has little fear on the defensive end to ride the pine all year.

We all know that D'Antoni has notoriously short practices to preserve the older guys like Hill and Nash, so he's not going to pick up much unless he's on the floor. Banks's confidence is so low that he's pretty much worthless now, and his work ethic has been called into question by many teams before (Boston/Minnesota). But when guys like Banks and Strawberry get on the floor and provide some energy, then it galvenizes the whole team, adds that "missing" chemistry and helps the Suns prevent losses to shit teams like Miami and Minnesota. Brian Skinner almost single-handedly salvaged the Miami game at home with his energy and if it weren't for a God-like performance from Nash during the final minutes in Miami, the Suns were in danger of losing that game too (which btw, is a game where Amare got frustrated over foul calls and was tossed with 2 techs... bringing me back to my earlier point about giving him some defensive help early to spark his offense).

Also, I know that I said having Skinner in there helps Amare down low, but also having a strong perimeter defender can prevent the guards from getting to the bucket and prevent Amare from picking up ticky-tack fouls trying to help. Then again, Mike didn't win titles in the Italian league 100 years ago by playing defense, so why should he do it in the NBA?

Again, Im not saying that he won't make it in the league or he doesn't have potential, but at this point he still VERY much looks like a late second round draft pick. Take last night: We see him make a great defensive play, but then we see a ball bounce off his shoulder while he's tying his shoe followed by three straight trips down the floor where he takes an ill-advised shot (somewhat out of control).

But hey, HE'S A ROOKIE! He needs time to develop. But at this point, it appears he needs more time in the D League.


And for the upteenth time, I agree about Skinner! He should get a lot more minutes. He didn't come off the bench in the second half last night even though Amare was being careless on defense (probably because his teammates weren't involving him in the offense).

[da_suns_fan]

I think they can, but it's heavily contingent upon D'Antoni seeing the light, them developing or netting a quality backup PG, using a Marion/Amare/Skinner frontcourt much more often and sustained health and energy from Nash, Hill, Marion and Amare, of course is heavily dependant on a backup PG and Skinner being used more.

They can, but D'Antoni is the lynchpin. If he pulls the same shit he's been pulling, then the whole playoffs fall apart for the Suns.

However that said, if they hadn't sold off Thomas and Jones I'd be much more upbeat about their chances, which, as of now, I say is 40-60. With Thomas, Jones, Hill and, maybe, Skinner, I'd say it's easily 50-50 and maybe even a slight advantage to the Suns.


You forgot that they should go grab JALEN ROSE from the ESPN offices and offer him a starting spot! Think how good they would be with TWO Grant Hills out there! :hungry: