PDA

View Full Version : No Tax Rebate's Going to Fix This Mess



Nbadan
01-20-2008, 03:22 AM
Sometimes, doing nothing is better than doing something....

No Tax Rebate's Going to Fix This Mess
By Dave Lindorff


When you hear a number like $100 billion (the amount Bush is proposing to give back to people in the form of tax rebates, at about $800 per adult family member) or $145 billion (that $100 billion, plus another $45 billion in business tax breaks—mostly accelerated deductions for capital investment) bounced around, it sounds like a lot of dough, and you might think it would be a good shot in the arm for an economy that is falling into a dead faint.

But let’s think about it on a micro level.

What would my wife and I do with an extra $1600?

Well, to be honest, that’s not quite one month’s mortgage payment.

If we were smart, we’d probably use it to pay down some principle on our credit line, which would over time get us out from under on that dreaded monthly bill a lot sooner. But if we did what most people are likely to do--pay off some bills with it, or one month's mortgage, chances are, given how hard we're all working just to keep going, that we'd then slack off somewhere else just to catch a little break--maybe turn down one assignment, or if we're on an hourly job, turn down some overtime and catch a little more shuteye--and in the end, we wouldn't be adding anything to the economy at all.

But then there are the cars. They both need servicing. The Volvo, a 1993, is suffering from a case of electronic lock collapse syndrome: the right rear door can no longer be opened. It’s frozen in the locked position. The lock button on the driver’s door came unconnected from the latch mechanism inside the door too, so that door has to be locked and unlocked from the outside with the key. And I figure it’s only a matter of time before some of the other doors get frozen in locked position, which could get really ugly when I need to drive with more than one passenger. So I could use probably $1000 of that rebate to get that mess fixed. That would leave $600 for two alignments, two tune-ups and some new tires.

If I were to do all that, I suppose that would be a little boost to the economy, but not much. It certainly would be nice for the auto electric shop guy, but it’s not going to do much for Detroit. Trust me—that extra $1600 is not enough to tempt me to go out and buy a new car. Heck, it’s only about a down payment and two monthly payments on some piece of junk from the bottom of the Chevy or Ford line-up, and after that I’m stuck with payments for four more years. No, I’ll be staying with my old Volvo and the 2001 Honda Civic.

I suspect most Americans are in the same boat. If you have to worry about the future of your job—in my case a continued flow of assignments from various magazines that keep me afloat—you’re not going to go out and buy some big-ticket consumer item just because you got an unexpected $1600 check from Uncle George in Washington.

Economic theory, regarding the "velocity of money" and all that, says that if I do get the Volvo door problem fixed, and if I do buy those new tires and get the cars tuned up and aligned, that money I spend will flow through the economy, making everything hum a little better (not the tires though, since they're probably made overseas so the extra dollars just get lost to the US economy). That’s probably true to a point. The auto electric guy is likely to get a little pick-up in business—mine and other people with door and light problems they’ve been living with for a while. But will it be enough to convince him to go out and hire another employee? I doubt it. Will he invest in new equipment? Nah. I doubt he’d do that, and even if he did, it most likely would be imported too, meaning an end to the stimulus chain. More likely, he’d take his extra dough and go get his pick-up repaired. It’s belching a bit of smoke these days, and looks like it could use some engine work. But again, I doubt that he’ll be ordering a new F-150. And any parts he buys for his vehicle are likely to be imported too, thanks to globalization. That’ll be good for Mexico’s or China’s economy, but not for ours.

Besides, the thing is, we all know that those IRS rebates are a one-off thing. It’s not like they’re going to make this a regular yearly surprise. So you’d have to be an idiot to take the money and pump up your life-style.

And then there’s another problem. By adding another $145 billion to the budget deficit, the government is contributing significantly to inflationary pressures, and when those gnomes in Zurich, London, Tokyo and Hong Kong see that, they’ll bid down the value of the dollar even more. Our once mighty currency, now worth only half a pound Sterling in Britain, or just over 100 Yen in Japan, is shrinking faster than the polar icecap. And that means that all the products we depend on—our tools, our dishware, our clothes, much of the food we eat, and of course our oil—will get more expensive.

I don’t know about you, but my wife and I spend basically every penny we earn each year, in order to make ends meet. Now some of that is for stuff like mortgage payments, tuition payments, etc., but I’d guess that, counting oil and energy bills, probably half our income goes to buy things that are imported, and that’s probably roughly true for most American families. After all, almost nothing is actually made in the US anymore, and we even buy a lot of raw materials—iron, oil, etc.—from overseas. So if for sake of argument and easy math, we’re making $100,000, that’s $50,000 being spent on imported stuff. Now here’s where things get a little speculative. But suppose that having the government add another $145 billion in red ink to the federal budget leads to an extra 3 percent decline in the value of the dollar against foreign currencies—a not unreasonable scenario. Why, that would mean that the $50,000 I spend on foreign goods in a year would cost me an extra $1500—just about the same amount as that $1600 Bush is proposing to lay on me.

But…that weakened dollar will continue into next year and beyond, while the $1600 rebate is a one-time thing.

So what do we get out of this rebate thing?

Worse than nothing.



There is, unfortunately, no free lunch.
]
In fact, it’s worse than that. To the extent that the extra decline in the dollar puts pressure on the Federal Reserve to take some action to prop the Greenback up, we will see interest rates rise. Now at the moment, we’re in hock to the tune of about $25,000 on a home equity credit line—a result of living beyond our means that is the typical American family’s response to incomes that have failed to keep pace with inflation. While my mortgage is fixed-rate, my credit line is not. So if the fed raises interest rates by .25 percent to prop up the dollar from the effects of that one-off tax rebate, I’m going to be paying an extra $650 annually in interest on my credit line balance.

In other words, this rebate is putting me into the hole right from the get-go!

Thanks a lot George!

So how about we just forget this whole stinking rebate idea. It ain’t gonna work, folks. It might sound good in an election year, but if you look at it closely, you can see it’s really just smoke and mirrors.

There is a solution, though. How about if they end the war in Iraq and bring all the troops home. The government will save several hundred billion dollars a year that’s being spent overseas blowing things up—and that is helping to depress the dollar and raise our tax bills. Some of that saved money can help reduce the deficit. Other chunks of it could be invested in America’s badly decaying infrastructure—repairing bridges, building new schools, etc., maybe building some major levees to protect our coastal cities from the next Katrina or from the global warming flood that we know is coming. And all that will mean jobs for people who need them.

We might also try to do something about reducing that massive outflow of dollars that’s making our currency do a disappearing act. An easy way to do that would be to slap higher taxes on gasoline and to tax cars based on how bad their gas mileage is. Before long, most Americans would be driving less and buying smaller, fuel-efficient cars, and we could significantly reduce the single biggest item on our import bill: oil.

Don’t get me wrong. I’ll be happy to get that $1600 check George Bush is calling for. I’m certainly not going to return it to the Treasury! But let’s not be pretending that it’s going to jump-start the sick economy.

It might even end up making things worse.

Dave Lindorff is a Philadelphia-based journalist and columnist. His latest book is "The Cast for Impeachment" (St. Martin's Press, 2006 and now available in paperback). His work is available at www.thiscantbehappening.net
Oped News (http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_dave_lin_080118_no_tax_rebate_s_goin.htm)

PixelPusher
01-20-2008, 01:57 PM
It's like getting a gift card from your significant other, then finding out he/she used your credit card to buy it.

joy.

boutons_
01-20-2008, 02:06 PM
40% of "taxpayers", on the low-end, don't even qualify to pay incomes taxes, so they, who are most in need, living from paycheck to paycheck, and most likely to spend it quickly, won't get a penny.

SouthernFried
01-20-2008, 02:27 PM
If you don't pay taxes...you've already GOT your tax rebate.

And one of the more idiotic statements I hear..."the poor are more likely to spend the money they get (from other people, btw)."

Like the people who have the money to begin with, wont spend or save it...but just hide it under a mattress. And yes, putting the money in savings allows banks to "spend it" and put the money into the economy.

Giving tax money to people who dont pay taxes is welfare. Giving tax breaks or rebates to people who earned that money aint. Let the people who earned the money spend it...they have that right, donchathink?

And whether or not a Tax rebate will "fix this mess" is sorta irrelevant. The mess has been coming for 50 years. Tax rebates are morally right. Mandated increased spending by govt is morally wrong.

Spending is, has been, and always WILL BE the problem.

Fucking DEAL WITH IT!

............

Wild Cobra
01-21-2008, 12:43 AM
I am one that also doubts more rebates, lowering taxes more, etc. will help any. I think we are close enough to the optimum taxation for the type of system that we have, that reducing effective tax rates farther might reduce government revenue rather than enhancing it.

I believe the solution is in either changing the way we tax, or reestablishing tariffs. This reduction in tax rates we have enjoyed for a few years has worked. You can only reduce tax rates so far until revenues decrease. After all, revenues are zero at both 100% taxation and at 0% taxation. Where is the optimum point?

SouthernFried
01-21-2008, 01:35 AM
Where is the optimum point?

10%

Nobody should have any more taken from them. Nobody. Hell, I'm an atheist...but, even ancient religions proclaimed 10% should go to them. Taking more is immoral even to those trying to hold up to higher moral standards. And they are right. If the govt can't operate off taking 10% of peoples money...it, simply, has, to, do, LESS! You don't ask govt "how much do you need?" Cuz they "need" it all.

You say..."this is how much you got, it's 10% and no more...you better not fucking waste it."

Now, someone please ask me what I'd get rid of :)

xrayzebra
01-21-2008, 11:22 AM
10%

Nobody should have any more taken from them. Nobody. Hell, I'm an atheist...but, even ancient religions proclaimed 10% should go to them. Taking more is immoral even to those trying to hold up to higher moral standards. And they are right. If the govt can't operate off taking 10% of peoples money...it, simply, has, to, do, LESS! You don't ask govt "how much do you need?" Cuz they "need" it all.

You say..."this is how much you got, it's 10% and no more...you better not fucking waste it."

Now, someone please ask me what I'd get rid of :)

Okay, what would you get rid of? Happy now?

JoeChalupa
01-21-2008, 11:52 AM
I'll take it.

Nbadan
01-21-2008, 11:40 PM
Okay, what would you get rid of? Happy now?

....I'm thinking it's not preemptive war...

DarkReign
01-22-2008, 10:22 AM
....I'm thinking it's not preemptive war...

...which costs a helluva lot more than 10% of the total American income.



read the sig

101A
01-22-2008, 10:30 AM
10%

Nobody should have any more taken from them. Nobody. Hell, I'm an atheist...but, even ancient religions proclaimed 10% should go to them. Taking more is immoral even to those trying to hold up to higher moral standards. And they are right. If the govt can't operate off taking 10% of peoples money...it, simply, has, to, do, LESS! You don't ask govt "how much do you need?" Cuz they "need" it all.

You say..."this is how much you got, it's 10% and no more...you better not fucking waste it."

Now, someone please ask me what I'd get rid of :)10%???

Social Security ALONE is more than 10%!

johnsmith
01-22-2008, 01:46 PM
Yeah, the rebate thing isn't going to make a damn bit of difference, however, anyone that is against it, please give me your home address so I can come to your house, beat you up, kick your dog, and then take your $800.


Come on fellas, Johnsmith wants a new LCD TV. Not something huge, just an $800 job so I can hook the Xbox to it upstairs instead of down.

Extra Stout
01-22-2008, 01:59 PM
Yeah, the rebate thing isn't going to make a damn bit of difference, however, anyone that is against it, please give me your home address so I can come to your house, beat you up, kick your dog, and then take your $800.


Come on fellas, Johnsmith wants a new LCD TV. Not something huge, just an $800 job so I can hook the Xbox to it upstairs instead of down.
I'm not stupid enough to turn down $800 or $1600 of what was my money in the first place, even though I know it won't make much of a difference in stimulating the economy, and I also know it is just a case of kicking the can down the road toward a more severe reckoning involving hyperinflation of the dollar and the end of American economic hegemony in the 2010's or 2020's.

johnsmith
01-22-2008, 02:03 PM
I'm not stupid enough to turn down $800 or $1600 of what was my money in the first place, even though I know it won't make much of a difference in stimulating the economy, and I also know it is just a case of kicking the can down the road toward a more severe reckoning involving hyperinflation of the dollar and the end of American economic hegemony in the 2010's or 2020's.


I 100% agree with you.......especially the part about not being stupid enough to turn down my own money being given back to me.

Oh, Gee!!
01-22-2008, 02:20 PM
I'm gonna buy a TV

JoeChalupa
01-22-2008, 02:40 PM
I'm going to invest in the housing market.

BradLohaus
01-22-2008, 03:00 PM
You can almost get a gold coin with that kind of money.


I'm gonna buy a TV
I think I will too.

DarkReign
01-22-2008, 03:16 PM
Im donating it to Social Security.

Oh, Gee!!
01-22-2008, 03:19 PM
I'm gonna buy 1600 Lottos

xrayzebra
01-22-2008, 05:02 PM
I'm not stupid enough to turn down $800 or $1600 of what was my money in the first place, even though I know it won't make much of a difference in stimulating the economy, and I also know it is just a case of kicking the can down the road toward a more severe reckoning involving hyperinflation of the dollar and the end of American economic hegemony in the 2010's or 2020's.

Put your money into the money market. Very liquid, if
needed, and interest is set by the market. It was very
good to me during the Carter years and shortly there
after.

Extra Stout
01-22-2008, 05:18 PM
Put your money into the money market. Very liquid, if
needed, and interest is set by the market. It was very
good to me during the Carter years and shortly there
after.
I think I'll pay medical bills with it.

PEP
01-22-2008, 09:27 PM
I dont pay taxes so is there anyone willing to help a poor soul out?

boutons_
01-22-2008, 10:15 PM
WC, here's Bernanke's "fear mongering" you're so sick of. My guess he has a little bit more data than you have.


In Private, Bernanke Tells Horror Stories

January 22, 2008 04:46 PM ET | Bedard, Paul

People wondering why Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke suddenly moved to reduce the bank borrowing rate by three quarters of a point should know that in private he has expressed growing pessimism about the economy. Whispers has learned that has told people in recent weeks that the economic situation some see falling into recession will be much worse than he has admitted to publicly.

We're told by those who've heard him that he says the first six months of this year will be "bad," an adjective that some interpret this as signaling there is better than a 50-50 chance for a recession. Even worse, the former Princeton prof believes the ensuing recovery will be "weak" because of persistent problems in the housing market that will result in subdued consumer spending. We checked in with his office, which says it doesn't comment on what the boss says in private. But it's certainly not comforting news considering that his recent public testimony was a bummer, like when he told Congress last week, "Recently, incoming information has suggested that the baseline outlook for real activity in 2008 has worsened and that the downside risks to growth have become more pronounced ... in particular, a number of factors, including continuing increases in energy prices, lower equity prices, and softening home values, seem likely to weigh on consumer spending as we move into 2008."


http://www.usnews.com/blogs/washington-whispers/2008/1/22/in-private-bernanke-tells-horror-stories.html?s_cid=rss:washington-whispers:in-private-bernanke-tells-horror-stories

Wild Cobra
01-23-2008, 02:53 AM
WC, here's Bernanke's "fear mongering" you're so sick of. My guess he has a little bit more data than you have.

------

Whispers has learned that has told people in recent weeks that the economic situation some see falling into recession will be much worse than he has admitted to publicly.

Yes, but there is fear mongering. Every time there is the slightest downturn in the markets, the media blames it on something that most often does not apply. The fear is causing reduced economic activity.

And for some real concerns. The only thing I see if the fear by business that the democrats will not only control congress in 2009, but the presidency.

Look at the time you must hold capitol gains for the minimum taxes. Nobody who is smart, and things the democrats will rule and raise taxes, wants anything to do with the markets right now. The facts however are that the markets have fair value for the most part. There is no reason for them to decline like they are except for fear. It looks like the dollar has stabilized, but I'm not sure. Right now. Fear... Fear of the elitist pork barrel democrats... That's what OI truly believe right now.

Trust me. If the control both houses of congress, and the executive office... We are in deep shit... The players in the markets know it too.

boutons_
01-23-2008, 08:18 AM
The finanical cowboys have circled the wagons. yee haw!

Insider Bernanke is trying to save his buddies' and traders' fortunes in the fucking financial industry, not in the economy.

stock market DOES NOT EQUAL the economy.

Think positively, WC all will "correct" automatically via FSM's invisible hand.

$150B stimulus for an $13T economy? A 1% kicker? GMAFB A pathetic, useless band-aid where the $800 per taxpayer won't be in pockets before mid 08.

xrayzebra
01-23-2008, 11:06 AM
wild cobra you know not of what you speak


He very well does not of what he speaks. The dimms will
take the country down with their Socialist policies.
Hillary cant stop talking about her Universal Health Care,
and believe me that is only one of her great ideas.

And for all the backers of Clinton, I cant wait to see you
waiting for 18 months for an MRI or some other medical
procedure. Like Canada or the UK. Or being told by a
Socialist doctor that he wont treat you because you
eat too much 0f a certain food and it is to high in fat
content or you smoke, so forget any treatment. Or
worst yet, send one of children home with no treatment
because what they have is incurable and expensive
to treat. Yeah, all these things have happened within
their health care system. Vote Clinton, Edwards or
Obama and reap the winds.

DarkReign
01-23-2008, 12:23 PM
He very well does not of what he speaks. The dimms will
take the country down with their Socialist policies.
Hillary cant stop talking about her Universal Health Care,
and believe me that is only one of her great ideas.

And for all the backers of Clinton, I cant wait to see you
waiting for 18 months for an MRI or some other medical
procedure. Like Canada or the UK. Or being told by a
Socialist doctor that he wont treat you because you
eat too much 0f a certain food and it is to high in fat
content or you smoke, so forget any treatment. Or
worst yet, send one of children home with no treatment
because what they have is incurable and expensive
to treat. Yeah, all these things have happened within
their health care system. Vote Clinton, Edwards or
Obama and reap the winds.

Honestly, youre starting to piss me off.

Regardless of what poor schmuck gets elected, that same poor motherfucker is going to be stuck holding Bush Jrs bag of fuckups concerning the economy.

Dem, Repub, Indie...it doesnt fucking matter.

If the person elected is anyone but Paul, we're going to experience a landmark recession.

There isnt a a god damn thing ANYONE can do about it. NOTHING. Unless you cut government spending nearly in half, we might just experience LESS of a recession.

God. I knew this shit was going to happen. Bush butt-rapes economics class for 8 years and the poor schmuck who takes his seat is going to be blamed by the lemmings of the world.

Seriously, youre the voting public in a nutshell. Congratulations on picking you side, you political shill.

BradLohaus
01-23-2008, 04:04 PM
The Father of Reaganomics on the Bush stimulus and the economic situation in general:

A Stimulus to What?
Paul Craig Roberts
http://www.creators.com/opinion/paul-craig-roberts.html?columnsName=pcr

JoeChalupa
01-23-2008, 04:40 PM
Well the DOW has bounced back!! It went from 300 pts down to back up again.

But yeah, the next president will have to deal with the massive deficit the all mighty and powerful Bush has left.

Thunder Dan
01-24-2008, 10:43 AM
tax rebates are a joke. Don't get me wrong, I will spend it if it's in my mailbox, but we (the US) don't have the money to be shelling out $600-$800 a person. Currently our National debt grows at about $1,000,000 a minute, and we are do nothing to pay it off. Sooner or later we will be owned by China and other countries because our own debt will be too great that it will sink us. This rebate is nothing more than a ploy during an election year to make us feel like our government is doing something. This is nothing more than a band aid on a broken arm.

But atleast I'll get myself new golf clubs

inconvertible
01-24-2008, 10:45 AM
welfare check

xrayzebra
01-24-2008, 11:06 AM
Honestly, youre starting to piss me off.

Regardless of what poor schmuck gets elected, that same poor motherfucker is going to be stuck holding Bush Jrs bag of fuckups concerning the economy.

Dem, Repub, Indie...it doesnt fucking matter.

If the person elected is anyone but Paul, we're going to experience a landmark recession.

There isnt a a god damn thing ANYONE can do about it. NOTHING. Unless you cut government spending nearly in half, we might just experience LESS of a recession.

God. I knew this shit was going to happen. Bush butt-rapes economics class for 8 years and the poor schmuck who takes his seat is going to be blamed by the lemmings of the world.

Seriously, youre the voting public in a nutshell. Congratulations on picking you side, you political shill.

And your solution to the whole mess is blame the
Republicans, vote for the Socialist dimm-o-craps and
call me a shill. My you are just a smart guy. Did
you figure all this out by yourself?

The dimms will handle it with great finesse. Raise
taxes and claim they balanced the budget, just like
Bill did when he was the Prez.

Create more entitlements. Bush, the compassionate
conservative, who let Kennedy write the education bill
and proposed the drug entitlements program. Who
the dimm-o-craps could vote for fast enough.

I support Bush on his foreign policy, but not on his
domestic policy.

JoeChalupa
01-24-2008, 11:10 AM
I don't support Bush and the repugnant spending.

xrayzebra
01-24-2008, 11:17 AM
I don't support Bush and the repugnant spending.

It's all of them spending, not just the "repugnats" as you
call them. The whole damn bunch love to spend.

DarkReign
01-24-2008, 12:12 PM
And your solution to the whole mess is blame the
Republicans, vote for the Socialist dimm-o-craps and
call me a shill. My you are just a smart guy. Did
you figure all this out by yourself?

The dimms will handle it with great finesse. Raise
taxes and claim they balanced the budget, just like
Bill did when he was the Prez.

Create more entitlements. Bush, the compassionate
conservative, who let Kennedy write the education bill
and proposed the drug entitlements program. Who
the dimm-o-craps could vote for fast enough.

I support Bush on his foreign policy, but not on his
domestic policy.

Seriously, what the FUCK are you talking about?!

Where in that paragraph did I say "elect Democrats". I didnt, never have, you made that up out of thin air to somehow smack what I said.

Youre incorrigible. Bush fucked the economy in the ass for 8 years and now whomever is elected the next Prez is going to be stuck holding the bag. They will be blamed for the 8 years of "passing the buck" this administration is famour for.

Fuck, its like speaking to a child.

xrayzebra
01-24-2008, 12:16 PM
^^Humor me. I know you are a yankee, but try being civil once
in a while. Thats a good boy.

George Gervin's Afro
01-24-2008, 12:20 PM
He very well does not of what he speaks. The dimms will
take the country down with their Socialist policies.
Hillary cant stop talking about her Universal Health Care,
and believe me that is only one of her great ideas.

And for all the backers of Clinton, I cant wait to see you
waiting for 18 months for an MRI or some other medical
procedure. Like Canada or the UK. Or being told by a
Socialist doctor that he wont treat you because you
eat too much 0f a certain food and it is to high in fat
content or you smoke, so forget any treatment. Or
worst yet, send one of children home with no treatment
because what they have is incurable and expensive
to treat. Yeah, all these things have happened within
their health care system. Vote Clinton, Edwards or
Obama and reap the winds.


memo to Ray..we get to keep our private insurance if we want to... if you don't have access to basic healthcare you may have to wait but you and me we stroll right into our Doctor's office and get treated.. don't be stupid and repeat what hush tells you to..

JoeChalupa
01-24-2008, 12:36 PM
It's all of them spending, not just the "repugnats" as you
call them. The whole damn bunch love to spend.

I see you noticed the "repugnant" reference as you like to call "dimm-o-craps".

xrayzebra
01-24-2008, 03:23 PM
Honestly, youre starting to piss me off.

Regardless of what poor schmuck gets elected, that same poor motherfucker is going to be stuck holding Bush Jrs bag of fuckups concerning the economy.

Dem, Repub, Indie...it doesnt fucking matter.

If the person elected is anyone but Paul, we're going to experience a landmark recession.

There isnt a a god damn thing ANYONE can do about it. NOTHING. Unless you cut government spending nearly in half, we might just experience LESS of a recession.

God. I knew this shit was going to happen. Bush butt-rapes economics class for 8 years and the poor schmuck who takes his seat is going to be blamed by the lemmings of the world.

Seriously, youre the voting public in a nutshell. Congratulations on picking you side, you political shill.

Oh, by the way. It is better to be pissed off than
pissed-on. But how would you know!

xrayzebra
01-24-2008, 03:25 PM
memo to Ray..we get to keep our private insurance if we want to... if you don't have access to basic healthcare you may have to wait but you and me we stroll right into our Doctor's office and get treated.. don't be stupid and repeat what hush tells you to..

You mean I am paying all of this hospital insurance and
you and your friends cant get basic care at the University
Hospital. They will even give you an appointment. And
not question your nationality. Now who is being
untruthful. You or the hospital.

Cant_Be_Faded
01-24-2008, 08:22 PM
I'm going to buy sooooooooo many illegal drugs with this rebate

and i will rent a car, and take a road trip to las vegas

its going to be maximum (|20\/\/|\|4G3
For once, my lavish drug use and thug life style won't have to be charged 2 da game. I'll have refunded tax money in my hands to do my spendin'.




by t he way
doesn't anyone just feel really really depressed hwen reading xray's posts? I mean
I've been skimming over his crap for years now, and I STILL can't believe there is an entire brigade of people exactly like him, in every city of every state of this country. It's just like....wow, what fucking planet are you from.

Cant_Be_Faded
01-24-2008, 08:31 PM
Seriously though, this is bull shit. They should not do anything. They should let the market take its hits, and focus on the inflation problem rather than recession. But that wouldn't fit into the entire master plan of hollowing out America's economy and eviscerating the middle class, now would it?

Doing this will only fuck shit up in the long run and nearly every economist has been saying this. The estate Dubya inherited from Clinton will pale into comparison with the estate Dubya leaves Clinton.

GaryJohnston
01-24-2008, 10:45 PM
Im spending mine at Best Buy

Oh, Gee!!
01-25-2008, 09:19 AM
Wal-Mart musta lobbied big time for this to pass.

xrayzebra
01-25-2008, 09:59 AM
I
by t he way
doesn't anyone just feel really really depressed hwen reading xray's posts? I mean
I've been skimming over his crap for years now, and I STILL can't believe there is an entire brigade of people exactly like him, in every city of every state of this country. It's just like....wow, what fucking planet are you from.

Not to worry, you got your drugs to cure your depression.
And you can always put me on ignore, but then you wouldn't
have my words of wisdom to carry you through the day.
And please be kind to me, you may hurt my feelings
with post like this.

Wild Cobra
01-26-2008, 12:51 AM
Seriously though, this is bull shit. They should not do anything. They should let the market take its hits, and focus on the inflation problem rather than recession. But that wouldn't fit into the entire master plan of hollowing out America's economy and eviscerating the middle class, now would it?

Doing this will only fuck shit up in the long run and nearly every economist has been saying this. The estate Dubya inherited from Clinton will pale into comparison with the estate Dubya leaves Clinton.
Now I agreed with you until you gave president Clinton credit on the economy. He didn't have jack shit to do with the nice run we had. Up to 2000, technological advances moved everything upward. The internet flourished, we had very nice increments in computational speeds and memory sizes because of the CMP process being used on nearly all computer chips since 1994, and we had the drive to upgrade everything because of the Y2K scare. That's not everything, but it was the free market being free that drove the economy.

Every time the government talks about a bailout, regulations, changing tax systems, etc, the market stalls until it knows how to respond. We have had a drop in the buying power of the dollar, and the fear of president Bush's tax reductions not being continued by congress. Fear and the unknown are key factors to the state of the economy now. The housing market has little or nothing to do with it. The biased medias are creating fear that if stalling the growth we should have as well. Every time the DOW drops, they blame it on something that most likely had no effect. They blame it on something however that we see is in chaos, and the fear of the two being linked keeps a dismal outlook on the last year of president Bush, trying to help secure a democrat win for 2008.

Wake up people. Stop being a lemming.

We cannot do any good by robbing the future to give consumers what, maybe a 1% increase in spending power? Congress and the president made this move for political reasons. Not because it's the right thing to do. They want to say before the November elections "look what I did" when people have a better outlook. Funny thing is, by then, we are probably going to see the positive effects of the dollar dropping. Some jobs should be coming back to the USA. This allows politicians to take credit for something they had noting to do with.