In Danger of Becoming the Griz

[Rummpd]

Dear Pop:

What is going on - who knows their roles on this team?


Too many players get minutes, almost looks like Hubieball - for the next 10 games Spurs should settle on a consistent rotation with one back up per position:

Rasho/Rose
Duncan/Horry
Bowen/Brown
Manu/Barry
Parker/Beno

All the starters should go 33-35 minutes a game unless foul trouble with the exception of Bowen (Brown in for 20). Rasho especially has been playing well lately = let him prove he can do it for a game etc.

Duncan especially has to play entire 1st and 4th quarters (if close). Sick of the "6" minute subsitution in the first quarter etc. and the Parker score 17 in first half and sit the entire 3rd etc.

MadDoc

[Slo spurs fan]

^^ BS!

Player who is hot must play, not better payed player!

[angel_luv]

I think that in order to be a really great team, you need to be flexible.

I agree that there is some chemistry lacking in the rotation right now. But I also feel that the Spurs have plenty of time to grow together as a team in preparation for the playoffs. The boys will work out the kinks if given the opportunity.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't understand this thread. You are saying you don't want them to be like the Grizzlies, but yet you want a 10man rotation? That's Grizzly-esque.

[angel_luv]

Rasho especially has been playing well lately = let him prove he can do it for a game etc.

MadDoc



Finally, someone else sees what I have known all along!

[Kori Ellis]

Sick of the "6" minute subsitution in the first quarter etc. and the Parker score 17 in first half and sit the entire 3rd etc.

The six-minute substitution in the first quarter for Manu is necessary because he can't play long stretches at the high energy level he plays. And I've never seen Tony sit the entire third quarter.

No one was complaining about the rotations when the Spurs were winning (except Whottt) but they drop a game and all the rotations are wrong.

Tim hasn't been playing the same rotations lately because he's sick. Manu can't play an entire quarter, he'll faint. :) So basically, you go with who's hot and which combinations are working. In the end, Pop does play a 10man rotation with about the minutes distribution you are discussing (sans the 20 minutes consistently you'd like for Devin and your 33+ minutes for Rasho).

[Rummpd]

The "six minute" subsitution was Duncan in the
Suns, Portland game at least. It may be this cold thing but can't he at least go one quarter before resting? What other team consistently has less than 3 of their starters on the floor? Spurs are so deep that they have been getting away with it but often, especially last night, the rotations have been foolish. Where was Rasho who was giving rebounds, defense, and points anytime in the 4th? Why did Rose sit the entire first half when he has earned the right to be the backup to Rasho? Why was Manu benched so early in the 4th when he scored the first 5-6 points?

I do not want a true 10 man rotation, just some consistency and let the starters play most of the minutes for awhile. On blowout nights and back to back give the others more minutes but do so with so semblance of order.

[xcoriate]

Rummpd how many threads per day are you at??


Anyway Hubie ran a 10 mann rotation through last season, and that is exactly what you are proposing here, and might I add exactly what we have been running. Mass and Wilks are the only members of our team not gaining reg minutes.

[Rummpd]

Manu can't play an entire quarter, he'll faint.

Recall the Olympics and the Laker game last year where Manu went off - Manu can play the whole game = he grew up playing soccer and there were no breaks in that.

Manu per minute played is probably the most effective Spur and he sits way to much!!

MadDoc

[Kori Ellis]

The "six minute" subsitution was Duncan in the
Suns, Portland game at least. It may be this cold thing but can't he at least go one quarter before resting?

He's sick. They are trying to not play him in long stretches so he'll be of use in the fourth. He should be better soon, so that should be taken care of.

I just think you are overanalyzing things because of the loss. Also, Rasho's play doesn't warrant him playing 35mpg.

[Kori Ellis]

Manu can't play an entire quarter, he'll faint.

Recall the Olympics and the Laker game last year where Manu went off - Manu can play the whole game = he grew up playing soccer and there were no breaks in that.

Manu per minute played is probably the most effective Spur and he sits way to much!!

MadDoc

The Olympics aren't an 82-game season. If you play Manu more than 30 minutes a game, he'll be on IR in the playoffs.

[Slo spurs fan]

Manu can't play an entire quarter, he'll faint.

Recall the Olympics and the Laker game last year where Manu went off - Manu can play the whole game = he grew up playing soccer and there were no breaks in that.

Manu per minute played is probably the most effective Spur and he sits way to much!!

MadDoc


No, it is still TD with 30.5, 16.3 and 4.05 blocks per 48 min

[ZStomp]

Why are people bitching/crying after a loss?

It's one loss.

Not a losing streak. JESUS!

[Rummpd]

I will stand by my opinion that Manu is a fully capable world class athlete who should get at least 35 a night and would on almost any other team. He was the MVP of a Euro league. He would benefit by playing more. Also, that Rasho playing as he has over last 7 games should get 30+ minutes, if not, Rose should get his minutes.

You are probably right about Duncan - he does not look right physically but I am not sure he needs 10 minute breaks. At 75% he is still better by far than most. Except on back to backs he can go 36 minutes as well.

MadDoc

[Solid D]

Maddoc - this is still the 1st half of the season and you should know how difficult it is to win on the road, the 3rd game of a road trip versus a quality team - 3rd game in 4 days.

Prescription:
For the Spurs - rest and a home stand
For you - go out to the driveway court or nearest park and play some hoops with your kid....and relax. Pop always tightens his rotation as the regular season draws to a conclusion and heading into the playoffs.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Why are people bitching/crying after a loss?

It's one loss.

Not a losing streak. JESUS!

Thank you!

Anytime the Spurs lose it's like an absolute disaster and the team needs to be blown up immediately just to save the season.

[ducks]

if duncan is sick why do spurs go to him in the 4
he is the one that is tired then
if duncan is benched for the game
everyone knows they must step up to win

[whottt]

No one was complaining about the rotations when the Spurs were winning (except Whottt) but they drop a game and all the rotations are wrong.

I complained in wins that we barely won against medicore teams because Pop was again screwing with what has obviously been a successful rotation.

I mean Robert Horry didn't do anything to deserve not getting any PT in the Orlando game, and it hurt us.

And we are better team when Barry gets substantial minutes, regardless of if his shot if falling or not, and as of last week I can find a quote from Pop himself finally saying what I have been saying all along. So then why doesn't Pop take his own advice?

Last night was not one of the games in which he has done it the worst...Pop this time at least went to Barry in the 4th...and he was rewarded with a tied game when Barry left the court...this doesn't explain why he gave him little or no minutes in the first half though. And it doesn't explain why Pop kept going to 4 loss time and time again when it was obvious Duncan was out of it.

This loss is not entirely on Pop, it goes on Bowen, Duncan and Parker as well...but Pop did get mysterious with the rotation again. For no reason...now he starting to do it with Malik instead of Horry though.





In the end, Pop does play a 10man rotation with about the minutes distribution you are discussing (sans the 20 minutes consistently you'd like for Devin and your 33+ minutes for Rasho).

I don't really agreee with what Rump said, I like the 10 man rotation and to me it's obvious who should be closing out games...It's obvious to me what the best lineup the Spurs have is...

Parker
Manu
Barry
Horry
Duncan

Now there might be times when you want to replace Barry with Bowen, but when we are trailing in the score is not one of those times...

As I have said all along, Bruce is not superhuman, he is a 33 or 34 years old and he expends probably more energy on a nightly basis than any player in the NBA...we really don't need him to do that. He serves the team much better by being limited until the time when his skills are at a premium.

The truth of the mattter is Bruce's age is showing this season...he has been torched a lot this season, he got beat up in the playoffs last season...the energy he expends playing D is taking a toll on him...and if he isn't doing his job on D he is a liabiltiy to the team.


Start Devin, he has young legs and we want him to be playing better by the post season, starting him increases the chances of that happening...it's not like he's done less to justify starting than Jax had...

You could still start Bruce on nights when we face an elite scorer...but other than that it is silly to waste him when he isn't needed and I don't think it serves the best interests of the team.

[ducks]

I would rather pop experienment this time of the year
to see what works and does not then during march

[whottt]

It's obvious what works and what doesn't already.

Look, we are already the #1 defensive team in the NBA...no need to experiment since Pop's biggest goal has already been achieved.

This team has superior depth and it needs to be used as much in big games as it is in not so big games.

[ducks]

I was not pleased rasho did not see minutes in 4
last night

[Hook Dem]

It's one loss. The sky is not falling. Sit back and enjoy our team's success. We have room for only one coach.

[td4mvp21]

Yeah, this loss is nothing. It might actually be a learning tool for how not to play on an important road game. The Spurs will be ready on Tuesday night to face the Lakers. It's just one game and we all knew the Spurs would have to lose one sooner later. It's not like they were gonna win the rest of their games. It's better for them to lose now and learn rather than to lose later(playoffs)and learn.

[boutons]

It's not "one loss".

It's losing over and over by making the same mistakes over and over, players and coach. It's not being intelligent enough, from game to game, and within one game, to learn from the mistakes and make the team and coaching stronger in time for the playoffs.

If this Spurs team is so historically "special", it needs to find a way to win on nights like last night, to drag up the will to win, to coach the team using the players who are contributing, and to sit the starters who aren't, instead of "unspecially" giving the game away to inferior teams.

The game was very close last night, and just a little stepping up in the last 6 minutes by the players, and by the coach playing the Spurs who were playing well instead of blindly playing the starters, would have won it. It would have been a much more significant win, to win on an off-night against a playoff team on the road, than blowing out the Clips and Blazers, which were fun but meaningless games.

Robert was beautiful last night. He was really committed to and engaged in the game, and really got a bad call on the double team in the last minute. But more importantly was that he got his old legs moving into making the trapping play. Great crunch basketball from the vet.

[ducks]

tp was turning the ball over
at 2:39 second parker was benched for the evening

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Manu played much more than six minute spurts in the Olympics, and that was with him having to carry his team.

[whottt]

tp was turning the ball over
at 2:39 second parker was benched for the evening

In addition to Barry "not doing anything another player couldn't do" he also leads the team in Assist to TO ratio and TO per 48 minutes.....

Something to think about when you are hating.

[T Park]

Manu played much more than six minute spurts in the Olympics, and that was with him having to carry his team.


How many games did they have to play??


play him like Argentina did in the Olympics and Manu is shot for the playoffs.

[Extra Stout]

This bitching and moaning is ridiculous.

The Spurs lost one game against a good team. They played like absolute crap, yet still had a chance to win in the final minutes.

They are 24 and 7. Even after this apocalyptic loss which requires us to fire Pop, trade Tony, and take away Tim's two MVP awards, the Spurs are on pace to go 63-19, which would only be the best record in team history.

The Spurs always play expanded rotations early in the season. It's dumb not to do so. You save mileage on your veterans, you give more guys a chance to earn minutes, you get more of an opportunity to see exactly what each guy on your roster can contribute, and you give more players experience and possibly confidence to perform when the chips are down.

My lord, this board is bipolar. The Spurs win while Parker plays well, and all of a sudden he's John Stockton, Oscar Robertson, and Allen Iverson wrapped into a single croissant, and the Bulls' 72-10 mark is in jeopardy. The Spurs lose while Duncan struggles, and all of a sudden he is in irreversible decline, and the Spurs will be lucky to get past the first round, if they make the playoffs at all.

http://www.drugs.com/PDR/images/pills/p05315d3.jpg

[td4mvp21]

^well said

everyone knows the spurs play their best basketball toward the end of the season(after all star break) they always do;they did it the year they won, last year, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did it again. Everyone seems to think that the Spurs are playing their best basketball right now. Well they are playing good, but not their best. The Portland game is a good example of how well they can play. They will continue to gell as the season goes on. And if they dont, then well it wasnt meant to be. But you cant give up on them with one loss. Thats not being a true fan.

[ZStomp]

This bitching and moaning is ridiculous.

The Spurs lost one game against a good team. They played like absolute crap, yet still had a chance to win in the final minutes.

They are 24 and 7. Even after this apocalyptic loss which requires us to fire Pop, trade Tony, and take away Tim's two MVP awards, the Spurs are on pace to go 63-19, which would only be the best record in team history.

The Spurs always play expanded rotations early in the season. It's dumb not to do so. You save mileage on your veterans, you give more guys a chance to earn minutes, you get more of an opportunity to see exactly what each guy on your roster can contribute, and you give more players experience and possibly confidence to perform when the chips are down.

My lord, this board is bipolar. The Spurs win while Parker plays well, and all of a sudden he's John Stockton, Oscar Robertson, and Allen Iverson wrapped into a single croissant, and the Bulls' 72-10 mark is in jeopardy. The Spurs lose while Duncan struggles, and all of a sudden he is in irreversible decline, and the Spurs will be lucky to get past the first round, if they make the playoffs at all.

http://www.drugs.com/PDR/images/pills/p05315d3.jpg


Excellent Post Stout......some fans need to stop and breath. AND GET OVER IT.

[ShoogarBear]

Oooh, this Extra Stout guy/gal? can write.

Give him/her about another 20 posts before he/she declines into ducksdom like the rest of us.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Give him/her about another 20 posts before he/she declines into ducksdom like the rest of us.

Spaek fore you're self.

[angel_luv]

I thought Timmy wasn't feeling well. I knew he wasn't himself. I just hope he 's 100% again really soon. It is no fun to be sick, especially when you have his job.

I think all the boys are doing very well, all things considered.

[SequSpur]

This topic makes no sense whatsoever.

[Rummpd]

Obviously again, SeguSpur you simply do not get it, the Grizz played 10 deep and it only took them so far. Now they are going to their core, especially Gasol and playing their starters 35-40 minutes on a regular rotation each game. Spur's rotations need to be consistent - why does Pop flip flop Brown/Barry and Rose/Horry for no good reason and leave Rasho on the bench when he was arguebly the most effective player in the game. Plus Duncan sits way to much, cold or no cold.

Spurs have been getting away with it to talent but this approach is not the answer long-term.

MadDoc

[angel_luv]

Yea.. so I'm a nerd. I don't like spelling errors in my post, so I edited it. =) The message is still the same.

[Rummpd]

You may be a nerd but all the Luv always - with your great thoughts.

MadDoc

[ChumpDumper]

Obviously again, SeguSpur you simply do not get it, the Grizz played 10 deep and it only took them so far. Now they are going to their core, especially Gasol and playing their starters 35-40 minutes on a regular rotation each game.And they're currently below .500 out of the playoffs. We could easily run a consistent rotation if the players themselves were consistent. They aren't. Couple that with the fact it's early January and you get our current rotations with our current record.

Exactly what did everyone think the Spurs record would be at this point?

[boutons]

"what did everyone think the Spurs record would be at this point?"

W's (over inferior teams), instead of L's

@TOR W (no 4th quarter/20-point-lead collapse)
@MEM W (just sucked)
SEA W (no 2nd quarter disappearance)
@ORL W (Stevie was good, but not that good)
@SAC W (Spurs horrendous)

So our "special" Spurs would be a very special 30 - 2, instead of 25-7.

The 2 L's,

1) giving Tracy his Miracle Minute, was combination of Spurs giving him the opportunity, thank you, and Tracy seizing it. I take nothing away from his performance. Spurs set the table, and Tracy had a feast.

2) The loss @SEA in the first week of the season. Spurs got ambushed by what turned out to be one of the hottest teams.

[ChumpDumper]

No hindsight crap. Our Monday morning quarterback bitching is the stuff of legend.

Really--at the beginning of the season--were you expecting this record?

Would you have taken it?

Did you really think 30-2 back in October?

11-1 on the road?

No you didn't.

This team isn't that good.

[T Park]

i thought 20 and 12 or 21-11 would be the record if having to guess.

I didnt think the Supersonics, or the Suns would be this good though as well.

[boutons]

"Expecting this record?"

Of course not. Was it do-able, look carefully at each loss, with what we've seen? absolutely yes.

[ChumpDumper]

Of course not.Then unclench.
Was it do-able, look carefully at each loss, with what we've seen? absolutely yes.You make the mistake of thinking our team and staff are better than they actually are. Sometimes they definitely are. Other times they aren't. If they perform to their potential every night? Sure, maybe 32-0. They simply don't do that. If you want better, you'll have to either be patient or look for a trade.