It's time now for Bowen to pass the torch to Udoka

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Udoka's has been doing very well on defense, and his offensive game is WAY ahead of Bowen. The Spurs have had trouble this season scoring and Bowen out there doesn't help matters.



Bowen needs to come off the bench

[Taco]

:sleep

[SouthernFried]

Might be nice to have the extra scoring coming off the bench.

So, I dunno...I'll leave this one up to Pop.

The remaining decisions, he'll have to consult with me.

[sa_butta]

Ok he had a great game, but please don't insult Bowen here. He was never meant to be a scorer and his defense is superior.

[SouthernFried]

Did you see that Bowen block on Kobe?

Man is still one of the best.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

the more PT Udoka gets guarding the best players the better he will get, Pop starting to see that


Bowen on the bench at the end yesterday hopefully will be aign of things to come

[hsxvvd]

Manu defended Kobe today when Bruce was sitting, Udoka played on Walton.

Please Bowen is still a long way ahead of Udoka on defence, but he has the tools, it will come with time.

Udoka had an excellent game, but it's also great to have Manu, Barry and Udoka on the bench to change the pace of the game.

[ShoogarBear]

After one game?

And Udoka doesn't have near the defensive versatility of Bowen.

[SAGambler]

Right now, I still like the idea of starting Bowen and then bringing Ime in when Manu checks in. As the game goes on, give Ime more of Bowens minutes. Right now Bruce has probably spent more energy than anyone on the team, and he could use the extra minutes off until April or May.

You gotta be impressed with the Udoka showing last night. Good D and hitting almost every open shot he had. You can see the team is trusting him, and that he has probably caught on to the system in record time. Usually takes a full season for a player to get really comfortable with the system. Appears he has already figured it out, which also means he must have a pretty high BB IQ.

That third quarter was classic. Wish I had taped it, so when the Spurs seem down, I could watch it for inspiration. I'm like Elliott....That may have been the best quarter I have ever seen in BB. Blocks, steals, dunks, scoring.....It had it all. That entire quarter should make the highlight reel. Hell, it should BE the highlight reel.

One win down, and 2 to go before the road trip. We should take care of Miami tonight, and then if we can have a convincing win against the Hornets, I think the Spurs are on their way to have a great road trip.

There is still room for improvement.... But just imagine if Gino had been spot on with his shooting last night. It would have been a blowout.

At the very least it looks like Ime gives us one more guy to go to if any one of the Big 3 are off their game on any given night.

I'm really liking the way this team is coming together....Looking forward to a great run in the playoffs.

[MoSpur]

Bowen is still more versatile on defense than Ime. We might see both of them start if Pop ever goes with a small ball starting lineup.

[ChumpDumper]

Now is the time for jumping to conclusions and dramatic thread titles.

[Ghost Writer]

I agree.

The fact that Bowen only played 23 minutes against the Lakers, when his hallmark is defending superior perimeter player like Kobe, is very telling.

I've long maintained that Bowen's value is overrated. He never really stops anyone. And what good is it if you "hold" your guy to 28 points if you only score 10?

I'd rather have a guy out there that might yield 35 points to a star player, but can do more than hit baseline 3s.

Udoka is capable of good defense and scoring in double figures or at a minimum spreading out the floor a bit.

You love Bowen? Fine. Bring him off the bench when an opposing star gets too hot to handle.

[ChumpDumper]

He never really stops anyone.Nothing like a good ol' pile bullshit to bolster your agenda.

[ThomasGranger]

Wow. I can't believe some of this crap. I'm as excited about Ime as the next Spurs fan and I'm all for giving Bowen some rest, but Bruce is still THE premier perimeter defender in the league.

[SAGambler]

I agree.

The fact that Bowen only played 23 minutes against the Lakers, when his hallmark is defending superior perimeter player like Kobe, is very telling.

I've long maintained that Bowen's value is overrated. He never really stops anyone. And what good is it if you "hold" your guy to 28 points if you only score 10?

I'd rather have a guy out there that might yield 35 points to a star player, but can do more than hit baseline 3s.

Udoka is capable of good defense and scoring in double figures or at a minimum spreading out the floor a bit.

You love Bowen? Fine. Bring him off the bench when an opposing star gets too hot to handle.

You might want to ask Ray Allen, Melo, or even Kobe himself how "overrated" Bowen is.

IIRC, in the previous meeting with the Lake Show this year, Bowen actually outscored Kobe. I think one meeting Bowen put up 22 while holding Kobe to about 15.

You also notice Bruce only logged 23 minutes while Kobe logged 40 something last night. When did Kobe get most of his points?

But Bruce deserves some rest now. He has expended more energy this season than any other Spur. His man is constantly on the move, and Bruce is right there with him.

No way is Bruce "overrated". He should have been DPOY at least twice, but lost to blockers like Wallace and Camby. Do you actually believe either of those guys could guard on the perimeter like Bowen?

And Bowen, probably coming to the end of his career, is still working on improving his game. This year he has developed a bit of an in between shot, and certainly has improved his free throws.

Finally, Bowen does what he was hired to do, and does it as good or better than anyone in the league.

[SAGambler]

I agree.



I've long maintained that Bowen's value is overrated. He never really stops anyone.


You love Bowen? Fine. Bring him off the bench when an opposing star gets too hot to handle.

How do these two sentences make any sense at all?

First you say he is overrated, and then you say bring him in when the opposing star gets too hot to handle.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

I agree.

The fact that Bowen only played 23 minutes against the Lakers, when his hallmark is defending superior perimeter player like Kobe, is very telling.

I've long maintained that Bowen's value is overrated. He never really stops anyone. And what good is it if you "hold" your guy to 28 points if you only score 10?

I'd rather have a guy out there that might yield 35 points to a star player, but can do more than hit baseline 3s.

Udoka is capable of good defense and scoring in double figures or at a minimum spreading out the floor a bit.

You love Bowen? Fine. Bring him off the bench when an opposing star gets too hot to handle.



this is true, he is very overrated, and people forget then Duncan has much to do with Bowen being a good defender

[ChumpDumper]

Every player is a great defender when he plays with Duncan!

[ChumpDumper]

Even when Bowen was playing for the Heat, Duncan made him a good defender!

[Ghost Writer]

SAGambler, when has Bowen ever shut anyone down?

What happened last night?

My point is this... he sucks on offense and is only getting older.

Put his @ss on the bench and bring him in the game as a defensive substitution... no one is arguing that he doesn't play good D.

[hater]

Yeah, let's replace the best perimeter defender in the league :rolleyes

this team goes nowhere without Bowen. get real

[Ghost Writer]

Bowen played 23 mins. against Kobe last night.

There's no such thing as global warming either, hater.

[hater]

That's because Kobe was sucking in the 2nd half. If Kobe had been on fire in 2nd half you know who would have been guarding him.

[SenorSpur]

Even though Bruce has been struggling mightily on the offensive end thus far this season, I'm not ready to say that yet. However, I will say that it's refreshing to have another top-notch periemter defender on the roster. No longer does Bruce have to switch time back and forth between the oppostion's two best perimeter scoring threats.

[polandprzem]

There are no ghosts either, Casper

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao GW wants to see the Spurs win 7 of 10 games before he declares the season turned around, but he's willing to start Udoka and play him 30 mpg after seeing him for the first time this season.

[GRANFAN]

Not time to pass the torch, share the torch. Bowen still great defender, keeps getting under other franchise player's skin and frustrates them to where they don't always play their best . does not make sense to let a player get "hot".. and then have to get Bruce in to try to stop them..

[MrChug]

Udoka's has been doing very well on defense, and his offensive game is WAY ahead of Bowen. The Spurs have had trouble this season scoring and Bowen out there doesn't help matters.



Bowen needs to come off the bench

That was such a dumb sentiment SD21 that I think it's time to kill you.

[Obstructed_View]

I love that the Spurs have fans that don't understand how stops relate to the final score. Shoot, motherfuckers, SHOOT!

[ambchang]

Looks like somebody missed the whole 07 finals.

[ATX Spur]

Premature ejaculation forum!

[Ghost Writer]

Do you people understand point differentials?

For example, what is better?:

Bowen holds Kobe to 28 and scores 12

or

Udoka holds Kobe to 32 and scores 18


Do the math.


I'll wait.

[nkdlunch]

you guys need to root for the SUns if you think Udoka > Bowen.

BTW, Kobe had a bad night last night. and NO it was not because of Manu+Udoka's defense :lol

[ancestron]

Bowen was a key contributor for 3 championships. What has Ime done? I'm all for the kid getting some more minutes, and his offensive contributions look promising, but on the defensive end, Ime Udoka is no Bruce Bowen. How quickly we forget.
Just trying to think of specific examples of Bruce's contribuitons to title runs, I think about the playoffs in 03 when he set a franchise playoff record hitting 7 three pointers (broken by Finley in 07 with 8), hitting the go ahead 3 point dagger against the Suns in game 5 of the 07 semis, shutting down Nash and turning him into a whiny bitch in game 6, blocking and stealing Chauncey Billups 3-point attempt to tie at the end of game 7 in the 05 finals, keeping LeBron James way under his average every game in the 07 finals, I'm just brainstorming, I'm sure I'm forgetting some.
Not to mention the time the Spurs played the lakers earlier this season when Bowen had 23 points I think it was, outscoring Kobe.
Ime has a long way to go, not sure its time to stick Bowen in the doghouse just because Udoka had a good game.

[tmtcsc]

Agreed, after tonight its obvious that Bruce Bowen has lost his standing as the best perimeter defender and should be relegated to the bench. Also, its obvious that Ime Udoka has shed his journeyman label and established himself as our new starter.

Brilliant ! Who knew we could pick up a guy that Portland didn't want and make him into a starter ? Stay tuned next week when Jaque Vaughn edges past Tony for All Star consideration.

[nkdlunch]

Do you people understand point differentials?

For example, what is better?:

Bowen holds Kobe to 28 and scores 12

or

Udoka holds Kobe to 32 and scores 18


Do the math.


I'll wait.

is that you Mike D'antoni??

"we can score more points than them!!!" "7 seconds or less..."

[ATX Spur]

Do you people understand point differentials?

For example, what is better?:

Bowen holds Kobe to 28 and scores 12

or

Udoka holds Kobe to 32 and scores 18


Do the math.


I'll wait.

Ghost Writer, you do understand that when Bowen plays defense on one side of the court, another Spur can put the ball in the basket on the offensive side?

[ChumpDumper]

Do you people understand point differentials?

For example, what is better?:

Bowen holds Kobe to 28 and scores 12

or

Udoka holds Kobe to 32 and scores 18


Do the math.


I'll wait.
I'll wait for numbers that aren't pulled out of your ass.

[genomefreak13]

I like bowen to continue starting. Udoka did great in the win against the lakers, but he needs more time to mature into his role. Defensively , Bowen is still at par with him. Bruce can defend in three different position (4,3 and 2). The best position for Udoka is the SG position and he can be rotated to the SF position for defensive purposes. He is a natural 2 and only 6'5 in height. Considering this, he can only guard players within the no. 1,2 and 3 positions, beyond that it would be a field day for the opposing player.

I think Pop is thinking of developing a third player that can be a perimeter defender. With bowen, Ginobili and Udoka rotating on the best offensive player of the other team-surely the spurs would be great defensively come playoff season.

[nfg3]

Bruce is still an important piece. We all know that his O is suspect at times but that isn't why he was brought here - as stated before He does the job he was hired to do. This situation is what I was anticipating/hoping for with the signing of Ime. I thought he would fit in this year but later on and not now. Now we have a lockdwn perimeter defender on the second team, too. Leaving him there would be the best right now, IMO. But I'll leave that up to Pop. Either way we two perimeter feenders that can be interchanged with one another. Nice situation to be in don't you think?

[roycrikside]

I don't care which one of them plays, just don't play them together. And FTLOG, no more Robert Horry.

[BonnerDynasty]

Please.

Udoka is good but his defense is no where close to Bowen's.

[remingtonbo2001]

Hasn't Bowen held Kobe under 20 before?

If I'm correct, I believe Bowen has outscored Kobe on occassion.

Ghost Writer, Bowen is not overrated. There are a variety of analysist around the league who would say he is deserving of DPOY. However, I'm sure your creditials far outweigh the opinions of such analysists.

Udoka is a great player, I've been on the bandwaggon since he got here, but I still feel Bowen's defense is too valuable to give more PT to a player who hasn't fully adapted to our system yet.

As you've summarized to those calling this a turnaround, IT'S JUST ONE GAME....I'll wait till we win 7-10. Well then, why not wait for Udoka to play 10 games where he becomes a significant contributor?

[timvp]

:lol

Gotta love these threads. Bowen always goes through a midseason shooting slump and Spurs fans write him off. They want the new guy to start over him or trade for a "real" small forward. Same song, different verse.

There's no way in hell Bowen loses his starting job this year. Udoka is a good defender but Bowen is one of the best perimeter defenders in NBA history. There's a big difference. Ime had a solid game but this is just a redokulous thread.

And it's good to see GW brush off his cobwebs and come through with the Bowen hate. This is the same GW who said in 2002 that the Spurs would never win a championship with Bowen as a starter. He also called Bowen the worst starting small forward in the league and was on record as saying he'd rather the Spurs start Eric Williams than Bruce Bowen.

Three titles later it's pretty impressive that GW can come with the same take with a straight face :tu

[mardigan]

Do you people understand point differentials?

For example, what is better?:

Bowen holds Kobe to 28 and scores 12

or

Udoka holds Kobe to 32 and scores 18


Do the math.


I'll wait.
Scoring 29 on 27 shots isnt that impressive, whether it was Bowen or Udoka on him. Not to mention the 9 turnovers.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

I like bowen to continue starting. Udoka did great in the win against the lakers, but he needs more time to mature into his role. Defensively , Bowen is still at par with him. Bruce can defend in three different position (4,3 and 2). The best position for Udoka is the SG position and he can be rotated to the SF position for defensive purposes. He is a natural 2 and only 6'5 in height. Considering this, he can only guard players within the no. 1,2 and 3 positions, beyond that it would be a field day for the opposing player.

I think Pop is thinking of developing a third player that can be a perimeter defender. With bowen, Ginobili and Udoka rotating on the best offensive player of the other team-surely the spurs would be great defensively come playoff season.


Udoka did a good job on Odom last night. There is a height difference but Udoka is heavier and seems more capable of defending players in the post.

[genomefreak13]

I think it too harsh to say that bowen should be put to bench because of one game. Next game would be against the heat. Let's see if Udoka can play a key role in stoping Wade. We all know what bowen can do...let's see if Udoka can do it consistently. Then let's do this again...

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

People who can't see what Bruce Bowen means/has meant for this organization are retarded.


:cooldevil

[polandprzem]

uuuuu it's getting little tense

[tlongII]

Bowen sucks. The Spurs have won titles in spite of him, not because of him.

[ChumpDumper]

Please don't look at Brandon Roy's splits against the Spurs.

[MrChug]

Please.

Udoka is good but his defense is no where close to Bowen's.

I COMPLETELY agree. I see him getting lost on backpicks, simple screens, and even ball fakes. He often doesn't even "show" on pick and rolls...that's first DAY shit. I'm tired of the comparisons. Look at how little Bowen denies the ball in comparison to Udoka (a major part of defense), frustrates, and stays CLOSE to the man with the ball. You could drive a car between Udoka and the ballhandler some times. Shit. Now I'm not saying he's not a good defender. He's better than Bonner, Finley, Barry, and Richardson...but that's not saying much.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Bowen always draws the toughest defensive assignment on the team, regardless of who we're playing. People who can't recognize Bowen's contribution to the last three Spurs championships don't know basketball. Go back and watch the Cavs series again if you want to guage Bowen's value to this team. IMO he should have been MVP of the series. Too many people can't look beyond a stat sheet.



This site is filled with some dumbass mofos.



BTW, welcome back Ghost. :tu

[T Park]

This thread sickens me to the absolute max.

Thank god Pop runs this team and not the dumbasses on this forum.

[Ghost Writer]

Slooooooooooow down, timvp.

I don't remember saying this:

This is the same GW who said in 2002 that the Spurs would never win a championship with Bowen as a starter.

Even still, in 2002, Parker and Ginobili had not emerged as starters let alone stars.

He also called Bowen the worst starting small forward in the league and was on record as saying he'd rather the Spurs start Eric Williams than Bruce Bowen.

Bowen was the worse starting SF at the time and still may be.

Listen, Bowen plays great defense, but not enough to justify a starter's minutes. He can't do anything on offense except hit the wide-open baseline 3. He's a liability on the free throw line. Defenses sag off of him. He does not make anyone work on defense when guarding him.

Right or wrong?

Question.




At this point in his career, what is so bad about "saving" Bowen by using him as a defensive substitution?


Question.

[T Park]

Defenses sag off of him

Yeah look how well that worked for the Suns in the playoffs.

[anjlbitz]

Bowen sucks. The Spurs have won titles in spite of him, not because of him.

You're just mad because Brandon Roy curls up in a corner when he sees Bruce Bowen.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Assuming Udoka could give this sort of performance on a regular basis I'd be more inclined to give him Finley's starting spot than Bowen's. Defense is what gets it done around here.

[T Park]

Assuming Udoka could give this sort of performance on a regular basis I'd be more inclined to give him Finley's starting spot than Bowen's. Defense is what gets it done around here.

Agreed 1000%

I love Finley, but I love Udoka's game alot more.

[Ghost Writer]

Brilliant thinking, guys.

Then we have no one that can create their own shot off the bench whatsoever.


Talk about putting the weight of the world on Ginobili with the 2nd unit.

[ancestron]

a million posts and I bet they're all negative crap saying what the Spurs "need" to do. talk out your ass much?

[T Park]

Talk about putting the weight of the world on Ginobili with the 2nd unit.

He can handle it.

[timvp]

Slooooooooooow down, timvp.

I don't remember saying this:

This is the same GW who said in 2002 that the Spurs would never win a championship with Bowen as a starter. Don't you remember your equations? You said the difference between what Kobe and Bowen score could never be made up in the other matchups. You said it was mathematically impossible for the Spurs to beat the Lakers are any other team in which Bowen was matched up against a top notch scorer.


Bowen was the worse starting SF at the time and still may be.:lol

Ghost Writer is officially back.


Listen, Bowen plays great defense, but not enough to justify a starter's minutes. He can't do anything on offense except hit the wide-open baseline 3. He's a liability on the free throw line. Defenses sag off of him. He does not make anyone work on defense when guarding him.

Right or wrong?

Question.Well coached teams never sag off of Bowen in the playoffs. Bowen has consistently been the team's best playoff three-point shooter since he signed with the Spurs.

And the fact that Bowen doesn't take many shots and stays out of the way is why the Spurs can have three star quality offensive players without having to worry about not having enough basketball to go around. You need role players to win championships. Bowen is the ultimate role player.

Having scorers at every position makes no sense. Someone has to take a backseat. Having all chiefs and no indians is not a recipe for championships.


At this point in his career, what is so bad about "saving" Bowen by using him as a defensive substitution?


Question.You've been advocating using Bowen as a bench defensive stopper since the Spurs signed him. Was he "at this point in his career" when the joined the team?

[Ghost Writer]

Yes.

timvp, you make excellent points and I don't disagree.

But I think that a rotation along these lines would give more balance and versatility:

PF Duncan
SF Udoku
C Oberto
PG Parker
SG Finley

Bench:

PF Bonner/Horry*
SF Barry/Bowen*
C Elson
PG Vaughn
SG Ginobili

*Horry and Bowen are valuable veterans that have very little to prove or work on in the regular season... use them situationally now in the season and save them for big spots in the playoffs

[rascal]

There are no players in the league capable of stopping the top scorers. Bowen causes them to work a little harder but they will get their points. No doubt he plays tough defense but his weak offensive game nullifies any defense he may bring making him no better than an average to weak starting sf in the league.

If Bowen is such a big difference maker then why doesn't he have any trade value? He is a one dimensional role player .

[timvp]

But I think that a rotation along these lines would give more balance and versatility:

PF Duncan
SF Udoku
C Oberto
PG Parker
SG Finley

Bench:

PF Bonner/Horry*
SF Barry/Bowen*
C Elson
PG Vaughn
SG Ginobili

*Horry and Bowen are valuable veterans that have very little to prove or work on in the regular season... use them situationally now in the season and save them for big spots in the playoffsWhat's funny is Udoka's offense game is very similar to Bowen's offensive game. In fact, last year Udoka shot more shots in the corners than even Bowen did. Udoka gets his shots in the same places Bowen gets his shots. The only difference is Bowen is a little better at hitting that corner three.

If last night was your first time watching Udoka, you caught him on a good night. He's not a scorer at all. He's a guy who will shoot open shots and that's about it ... much like Bowen.

Udoka is more aggressive offensively while Bowen has better shot selection. If you'd watch Udoka in a game where he wasn't on fire, you'd hop off that bandwagon as quick as you hopped on.

[polandprzem]

What's funny is Udoka's offense game is very similar to Bowen's offensive game. In fact, last year Udoka shot more shots in the corners than even Bowen did. Udoka gets his shots in the same places Bowen gets his shots. The only difference is Bowen is a little better at hitting that corner three.

If last night was your first time watching Udoka, you caught him on a good night. He's not a scorer at all. He's a guy who will shoot open shots and that's about it ... much like Bowen.

Udoka is more aggressive offensively while Bowen has better shot selection. If you'd watch Udoka in a game where he wasn't on fire, you'd hop off that bandwagon as quick as you hopped on.


I thought it was just jokes umm nevermind :rolleyes


btw. WhoTF is Udoku?

[tlongII]

The only reason why Bowen plays is because the league lets him get away with hacking everybody he's matched up against. Frankly, it's ridiculous. He's acquired some kind of "rep" which makes it allowable in the official's eyes. UNBEAVABLE!

[z0sa]

This thread sickens me to the absolute max.

Thank god Pop runs this team and not the dumbasses on this forum.

QFT

bowen is the only reason we swept the cavs, and he's an integral part of the reason we've won three of our four championships.

Honestly, without bowen, its possible we still only have 1-2 championships. His D in the postseason throughout his spurs career has been simply remarkable. Remember that block on billups in game 7 of '05?

[e20dylan]

bowen is one of the MAIN reasons we have our rings theres no way hes coming off the bench. we just need to give udoka more minutes. id also like to see bowen and udoka in at the same time sometimes. that would really be amazing to watch

[T Park]

Ghost didn't watch the Finals last year.

Lame.

[Ghost Writer]

timvp, Udoku may not be the answer, but please apologizing for Bowen. He's old and one dimensional. And you know we'd get more mileage from him in the playoffs if we bring him in when we need stops.


P.S.

T Park, kindly kill yourself.

[ChumpDumper]

If Bowen is such a big difference maker then why doesn't he have any trade value?:lmao

When have the Spurs EVER even hinted at trading Bowen?


Why do haters have to continually make shit up?

[polandprzem]

Bewan is a great defender :tu

[ChumpDumper]

Bowen owns Brandon Roy and it makes me cry.

[z0sa]

bowened should be some a word in the dictionary considering how often bowen does it

[e20dylan]

what ive noticed about this forum in my small stint of posting is that when 1 player has a bad game people here are ready to trade him in an instant. its like yall dont remember how many championships we got and how we got them. have some faith

[ShoogarBear]

Do you people understand point differentials?Yes . . . the only one that matters is the one between teams.

NEXT.



For example, what is better?:

Bowen holds Kobe to 28 and scores 12

or

Udoka holds Kobe to 32 and scores 18


Do the math.


I'll wait.Massive fail.

Bowen holds Kobe to 28 on 9 for 25 shooting while going one-on-one all night and scores 12 and Spurs win because nobody else on the Lakers touches the ball.

Udoka holds Kobe to 32 on 12 for 20 shooting and scores 18 and Spurs lose because Kobe isn't working nearly as hard.

[rascal]

:lmao

When have the Spurs EVER even hinted at trading Bowen?


Why do haters have to continually make shit up?

What shit have I made up? Many here have stated that the only players on the spurs that have any trade value are Duncan Parker and Ginobili.

[SouthernFried]

IME did really great...

...in 1 game.

calm down.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Everyone that wants Udoka to start in place of Bowen that is bringing up the fact that he can score extremely better than Bruce, that's exactly why we need him to come off the bench. Do you want Bowen out there starting with the big three and not disrupting their offense and doing his job on defense while Udoka comes in with the second string to have a great opportunity to be one of the leaders on the offense AND defense, or do you want Udoka out there with the big 3 possibly disrupting the offense trying to create his own shot and Bowen coming off the bench and making the bench scoring drop?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Brilliant thinking, guys.

Then we have no one that can create their own shot off the bench whatsoever.
And putting Bowen on the bench will help?

[nkdlunch]

BUMP!

yeah, Udoka needs to replace Bowen.... in crackhead World!!!


stop smoking crack and recognize Bowen is #4 key to Spurs puzzle

[ChumpDumper]

What shit have I made up? Many here have stated that the only players on the spurs that have any trade value are Duncan Parker and Ginobili."Many?"

Who?

You?

How do you determine his trade value? By how much you hate him?

[anakha]

Udoka's has been doing very well on defense, and his offensive game is WAY ahead of Bowen. The Spurs have had trouble this season scoring and Bowen out there doesn't help matters.



Bowen needs to come off the bench

^
SD21, just killing time until Scola's next double-digit game. :lol

[greens]

You might want to ask Ray Allen, Melo, or even Kobe himself how "overrated" Bowen is.

IIRC, in the previous meeting with the Lake Show this year, Bowen actually outscored Kobe. I think one meeting Bowen put up 22 while holding Kobe to about 15.

You also notice Bruce only logged 23 minutes while Kobe logged 40 something last night. When did Kobe get most of his points?

But Bruce deserves some rest now. He has expended more energy this season than any other Spur. His man is constantly on the move, and Bruce is right there with him.

No way is Bruce "overrated". He should have been DPOY at least twice, but lost to blockers like Wallace and Camby. Do you actually believe either of those guys could guard on the perimeter like Bowen?

And Bowen, probably coming to the end of his career, is still working on improving his game. This year he has developed a bit of an in between shot, and certainly has improved his free throws.

Finally, Bowen does what he was hired to do, and does it as good or better than anyone in the league.





:clap

Excellent post, I agree with all of your points.

Also, Kobe himself had said that the best defender he's ever played against is Bruce Bowen.

I'm shocked that certain Spurs fans can't see the value in what Bruce does. How about just a few months ago, against LeBron in the Finals? The guy is the best perimeter defender in the league, all the coaches and players see that.

I'm absolutely loving how Udoka is playing. He's a good defensive player, has really good offense, and is an amazing addition to the Spurs. But to basically put down Bruce is just wrong...

[Spurminator]

Didn't we have this discussion in, like, 2003 or 2004? How many of the players ahead of 2003's "Worst Starting Small Forward in the NBA" have since found their way out of the league?

[Ghost Writer]

timvp made a good point. Udoka does remind one of Bowen. Maybe he's not the answer either.

And yeah, you Bowen Blowers®, we know he plays good defense.

At least acknowledge that his offense sucks. He can't hit anything but the wide-open baseline 3 and that includes free throws.

[ambchang]

I agree, we need scoring in all five positions on the floor at all times, like the Mavs or Suns, or Kings of the early century, or the Blazers in the late 90s, look at how many rings those teams have won.
Bowen can't score! Get rid of him! A player is useless unless he can create his own shot. I would much rather have a guy like Marbury or Steve Franchise than Bowen on the Spurs, they can SCORE!

[Ghost Writer]

Get a grip.

We know the Spurs win with defense, but as the team continues to age and injuries occur, I'm not so sure we can get by with players that just defend.

[ambchang]

Yes, the Spurs have been suffering with Bowen long enough. It was lucky the Spurs "got by" with him at the starting lineup. If it wasn't for him, the Spurs would have won more championships by higher margins and better records.
Damned one-trick pony Bowen, he defends and do nothing else, his defense on the opposition's best perimeter player can only be gauged by that player's points scored, and can't be reflected with the opposition's disrupted offensive flow, reduction in the complimentary player's quality shots, fast break opportunties for the Spurs based on long rebounds (vs. made shots), etc ...
And him being an accurate 3 pt shooter on the other end certainly does little to open up the offense based on his paltry ppg average, we all knew Parker, Ginobili and Duncan would score the same amount of points if Bowen wasn't there to keep his defender out of the paint area.

[Russ]

With Barry out, the Spurs need both torches (and no Rockets).

[Ghost Writer]

That's great, ambchang.

How about hitting a free throw or cracking 10 PPG?

Question.

[T Park]

:lol

Bowen could do all that and you'd still hate him.


Hell if he put on a headband tommarow you'd flip 180 on the guy.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

That's great, ambchang.

How about hitting a free throw or cracking 10 PPG?

Question.
I can't dispute the free throw issue, but Udoka only averaged 8.4 last year in Portland where he started 75 games. He's just not a big scorer.

[ambchang]

That's great, ambchang.

How about hitting a free throw or cracking 10 PPG?

Question.

You mean how your man Ime scores 8.4 ppg and making 0.9 FTs a game last year in his career year with Portland?

:tu

We all know the 4th or 5th option on the floor on every single winning team averages 10ppg and make FTs like Larry Bird does. Again, look at the Suns or the Warriors! How I wish the Spurs score more and win less.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

I'm a huge Bowen fan, he should have 2 DPOY awards by now, but he's done


and the Spurs can't afford his sporadic play anymore

[Kori Ellis]

I think maybe that Finley should pass his flashlight to Udoka instead.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I think maybe that Finley should pass his flashlight to Udoka instead.
:tu

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

I think maybe that Finley should pass his flashlight to Udoka instead.




this I agree with too



why doesn't Udoka just take Finely's spot?

[Kori Ellis]

this I agree with too



why doesn't Udoka just take Finely's spot?

I predict that he will within 2 weeks.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I predict that he will within 2 weeks.
Udoka + Bowen = Ultimate Lockdown

[Indazone]

I agree with this thread. Spurs need to bring Ime in for his youth, energy and scoring. Ya'll need to bring in Mahinmi too because that guy will be a rebounding machine next to Duncan or in relief of Duncan.

[ChumpDumper]

Ian isn't even a rebounding machine in the D-League.

[E20]

I guess people did not see that stat taht ESPN was showing around before and after the LA-SA game. Bowen was better head to head against Kobe. Not only holding Kobe to a low FG%, but himself shooint 80% from 3 and 48% from the field avg. 22.5 PPG in the matchups.