Swingmen That I Wish We Still Had Now

[Ghost Writer]

1. Stephen Jackson (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/stephen_jackson/index.html)
Captain Jack is playing All-Star basketball. He can score from anywhere and defends, too. Plus, he plays with passion.

2. Hedo Turkoglu (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/hidayet_turkoglu/)
This late-bloomer may have surpassed Rashard Lewis as the second-best player on the Orlando Magic. Hedo is scoring close to 20 a game and has emerged as the Magic's big shot man.

3. Raja Bell (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/raja_bell/)
Bell is a younger Bruce Bowen, but more versatile on offense. His defense keeps improving.

Oh yeah... these guys are all under 30.

[VaSpursFan]

I wish Buckets would have gotten better advice and stayed with us. he may do some boneheaded things but that dood is all heart and fearless on the court.

[T Park]

YOu said to get rid of Turkoglu after the Lakers series.

Make up your mind.

[Spurminator]

I'd like to have those guys too. They'd look pretty good starting alongside Bowen.

[Ghost Writer]

Spurm, I'd be cool with that, because there would be enough scoring punch to justify Bowen and his stellar defense.

[SenorSpur]

S-Jax

There will never be another - he was my brother.

My failed attempt at a hip-hop verse. :lol

[baseline bum]

Jack and Bell - yes. Turkoglu is worthless after March.

[lefty]

Jackson all the way; attitude, clutchness. :elephant

Love the guy. :elephant

By the way, is Loyd Daniels still available ?

[ThomasGranger]

Free Sweet Pea!!!

[nkdlunch]

Captain Jack is playing All-Star basketball. He can score from anywhere and defends, too. Plus, he plays with passion.


:lmao no he doesn't

[ORION]

Willie Anderson !!

[T Park]

uh stephen jackson plays pretty decent defense.

[baseline bum]

:lmao no he doesn't

Missed last year's playoffs when he completely shut Nowitzki down?

[Ghost Writer]

nkdlunch, yes he does play defense, ya dope.

[timvp]

Ghost, in 2001 when Steve Smith was threatening to hold out, I suggested the Spurs sign Raja Bell to be their new starting shooting guard. You laughed at the idea.

Apology Accepted.

[Whisky Dog]

Too expensive, too expensive, Bell would be nice.

Either of the 1st two would probably be at the expense of Manu, which I wouldn't do. Especially with the Turk.

[polandprzem]

Jeeez Ghost is back on the forum and being exposed in every single post.

What a catastrophy

[Ghost Writer]

timvp, I also said Hedo was a disaster. That does not mean he would not give this team a boost now.

You also loved Devin Brown and Ira Newble and basically any and every Spur.

Don't be a T Park now.

[timvp]

timvp, I also said Hedo was a disaster. That does not mean he would not give this team a boost now.So you want disasters on the Spurs?


You also loved Devin Brown and Ira Newble and basically any and every Spur.Yeah, I said Devin Brown was an NBA player the first time I saw him in a preseason game. And, uh, was I right or wrong?

You are making that up about Ira Newble. What's funny is while you've been on hiatus, timvp has gotten bashed for not liking certain new additions including but limited to Rasho Nesterovic, Francisco Elson, Melvin Sanders, Jason Hart, Ron Mercer, Shane Heal and ya boy Eric Williams. I've been impressed with my own batting average.

You, on the other hand, were a Rasho Sucker©, a Mercer Mercenary© and an Williams Worshiper© while at the same time being a Parker Doubter©, a Bowen Basher© and a Pop Hater©. Who won?

Question.

[Tippecanoe]

how do expect to keep the big three plus sjackson, and still be under the salary cap

[AFBlue]

A guy that actually reminds me of Raja Bell is Ime Udoka....so I don't think we're missing much there.

The other two aren't worth what they're being paid....if we're factoring their salaries into the equation.

[ChumpDumper]

how do expect to keep the big three plus sjackson, and still be under the salary capNo one does. This is just another useless wouldashouldacoulda thread. At least he had a suggestion for the present in the Delonte thread.

[urunobili]

S-Jax.... i still miss him...

[e20dylan]

sjax is part of the reason warriors are my #2 fav team

[ploto]

how do expect to keep the big three plus sjackson, and still be under the salary cap
It would have been Jax or Hedo instead of Barry. The difference in annual salary is only about $700,000 this year and that is 4 years into the contract. It was only about $500,000 the first year.

[ploto]

1. Stephen Jackson (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/stephen_jackson/index.html)
Captain Jack is playing All-Star basketball. He can score from anywhere and defends, too. Plus, he plays with passion.

2. Hedo Turkoglu (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/hidayet_turkoglu/)
This late-bloomer may have surpassed Rashard Lewis as the second-best player on the Orlando Magic. Hedo is scoring close to 20 a game and has emerged as the Magic's big shot man.

3. Raja Bell (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/raja_bell/)
Bell is a younger Bruce Bowen, but more versatile on offense. His defense keeps improving.

Oh yeah... these guys are all under 30.

[ChumpDumper]

It would have been Jax or Hedo instead of Barry. The difference in annual salary is only about $700,000 this year and that is 4 years into the contract. It was only about $500,000 the first year.And we never won again.

[ploto]

Hedo Turkoglu (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/hidayet_turkoglu/)
This late-bloomer may have surpassed Rashard Lewis as the second-best player on the Orlando Magic. Hedo is scoring close to 20 a game and has emerged as the Magic's big shot man.
Spurs fans never seemed to understand just how young Hedo was when he was on the Spurs because he came to the NBA so early. He is younger than Devin Brown. He is called a late bloomer here but he is only 28 years old.

[ploto]

And we never won again.
You know the question was about salary and not winning-- and as a matter of fact, the person who asked said under "the salary cap" and I assume he meant under the luxury tax threshold.

[cherylsteele]

1. Stephen Jackson (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/stephen_jackson/index.html)
Captain Jack is playing All-Star basketball. He can score from anywhere and defends, too. Plus, he plays with passion.

2. Hedo Turkoglu (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/hidayet_turkoglu/)
This late-bloomer may have surpassed Rashard Lewis as the second-best player on the Orlando Magic. Hedo is scoring close to 20 a game and has emerged as the Magic's big shot man.

3. Raja Bell (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/raja_bell/)
Bell is a younger Bruce Bowen, but more versatile on offense. His defense keeps improving.

Oh yeah... these guys are all under 30.

George Gervin
Mike Mitchell
Alvin Robertson and his on the ball "D" would be great on this team.


Unless you mean currebt active players.
Hedo? The one that had the "dear in th headlights look" during that Lakers' series?

SJax, definitely.

Reje Bell. okay.

[Harry Callahan]

Jackson was a cap casualty when FO was focused on Jason Kidd in 03. Hedo was a one year fill in and was a free agent the same year as Ginobili in summer of 04. The FO was not going to spend $85M in contracts on two guys playing the same spot. I can't remember if TP's long term contract was also done in 04 or not. I think it was. The payroll was budgeted and some very nice players ended up going away.

Jackson would have been a nice keep here, but the timing was bad. He has really blossomed over the years.

[mardigan]

Oh yeah... these guys are all under 30.
Raja Bell isnt

[ChumpDumper]

You know the question was about salary and not winning-- and as a matter of fact, the person who asked said under "the salary cap" and I assume he meant under the luxury tax threshold.In Hedo's case, it was more a matter of priorities. Manu was the priority that summer and he could not be signed while Hedo's unrenounced value was taking up all the available cap space that summer. Maybe we can labor under the idea that Manu and his agent would have waited while they tried to negotiate a deal with Hedo that was small enough to ensure they could match another team's offer to Manu -- but I find that extremely improbable.

[Ghost Writer]

Jackson was a cap casualty when FO was focused on Jason Kidd in 03.
Who did we get back then again?





Bell is 31.

Sorry.

[whottt]

To be fair...I don't really remember Ghost ever being a Rasho sucker...doesn't seem like the kind of player Ghost would like.

[Ghost Writer]

I hated Rasho and Hedo.

[timvp]

I was a Rasho Sucker.Yeah, and so was Ghost.

I tried to warn the Spurs about Rasho while GW was singing his praises. (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2880)

Apologies Accepted.

[Harry Callahan]

Who did we get back then again?





Bell is 31.

Sorry.


The spurs traded Danny Ferry's expiring contract for Ron Mercer and Hedo in the summer of 2003. Rasho also came in that summer taking Robinson's spot.

[Xylus]

Raja Bell is like our 4th or 5th option on offense, but he's largely considered to be the heart of the Phoenix Suns. (Assuming Nash is the Brain, Amare is the muscle, Marion the blood, and Boris Diaw the vagina.) He's a fan favorite, and a great addition to any team.

[Ghost Writer]

Yeah, and so was Ghost.

I tried to warn the Spurs about Rasho while GW was singing his praises. (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2880)

Apologies Accepted.

Erroneous!

Look at the date of that post.

That was after we whiffed on a superstar and needed someone to play center.

Don't even start, timvp.

I didn't want Kidd. I wanted Brand and settled for Odom. I wanted 'Kandi before Rasho.

I was the first to say the Holt-ing Pattern was a colossal mistake... as early as 2001, I believe.

Relax.

[SenorSpur]

Jackson was a cap casualty when FO was focused on Jason Kidd in 03.

Jackson would have been a nice keep here, but the timing was bad. He has really blossomed over the years.


Of the few FO blunders the Spurs have made, the ill-conceived dalliance with J-Kidd was their 2nd biggest blunder. It's clear that the pursuit of J-Kidd influenced the type of contact offer they initially gave Jax. Thus forcing him to go elsewhere.

Even with Jax leaving, they could have softened the blow had they simply chosen Josh Howard, who mysteriously fell to them @ pick #28 of 2003 draft. Instead, they foolishly passed on him only to have the Mavs take him with the next pick. The guy has only blossomed into an all-star caliber SF who is averaging close to 20 ppg and is a very, competent defender. Had they chosen Howard, all this annual debate about a "long-three" would have been moot. In my mind, that comprises the biggest major blunder ever by the FO.

All this have been very strange because the Spurs have yet to adequately replace the youthful energy, shooting, killer mindset that Jax brought.

[whottt]

Yeah, and so was Ghost.

I tried to warn the Spurs about Rasho while GW was singing his praises. (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2880)

Apologies Accepted.



http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/Assets/archivist.jpg



Archivist saves and squirrels away each and every discussion forum message. Do you remember having a bad day back in 1996 when in one of your messages you may have said a few things that were...well, perhaps a little...hasty? Don't worry, Archivist still has it and will post it to the forum if you begin to get the upper hand in battle. Archivist can be a very effective and fearsome Warrior.









http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/archivist.htm

[whottt]

Oh and for the record...

Whatever you may think my stance on Rasho is or was, you're wrong.

I said Rasho was talented but that his lack of aggression was not something Pop would ever be able to fix and that would be a problem because Spurs fans wanted David Robinson for the MLE...

I was right...he is talented, Pop couldn't fix his lack of aggression, and Spursfans do still want David Robinson for the MLE...

[Ice009]

No one does. This is just another useless wouldashouldacoulda thread. At least he had a suggestion for the present in the Delonte thread.


Not really because like I've said before after Jackson's season in Atlanta and Hedo's poor playoff performance there was absolutely nothing stopping the Spurs from giving Stephen Jackson the midlevel exception money that they gave to Barry. For some crazy reason the Spurs thought Barry would be better.

Also, I'm not sure if this is true, but at the time over at SR I remember reading someone saying that Tim Duncan called up S-Jax after the playoffs and told him "I want you back on the team". I think the Spurs would have had a real good chance at getting him back if they were willing to pay him. If he said no then fair enough, but I'm not sure the Spurs even tried or if he was even in the plans at that point?

[exstatic]

Jack - yes, but he chose to leave.
Hedo - Vagina in the clutch. No thanks.
Bell - An older (31, another GW mistake), more psychotic version of Udoka. No thanks.

[Ice009]

The spurs traded Danny Ferry's expiring contract for Ron Mercer and Hedo in the summer of 2003. Rasho also came in that summer taking Robinson's spot.


Sam Presti may have actually screwed us over. If he didn't come up with that amazing deal maybe the Spurs offer S-Jax a little more money and he resigns.Llooking back it now I think I would have preferred that Presti not come up with that deal in the first place.

[SenorSpur]

Sam Presti may have actually screwed us over. If he didn't come up with that amazing deal maybe the Spurs offer S-Jax a little more money and he resigns.Llooking back it now I think I would have preferred that Presti not come up with that deal in the first place.

As assistant GM, how could Presti have had such influence on R.C. to have made such a blunder?

[Ice009]

As assistant GM, how could Presti have had such influence on R.C. to have made such a blunder?


None of us knew Hedo was going to do what he did in the playoffs. It was a great move at the time, but we didn't know that Hedo was going to bomb out in the playoffs so i'm just saying it would have been better if Presti wasn't so smart to come up with the trade idea in the first place ;)

[BonnerDynasty]

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/Assets/archivist.jpg



Archivist saves and squirrels away each and every discussion forum message. Do you remember having a bad day back in 1996 when in one of your messages you may have said a few things that were...well, perhaps a little...hasty? Don't worry, Archivist still has it and will post it to the forum if you begin to get the upper hand in battle. Archivist can be a very effective and fearsome Warrior.









http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/archivist.htm

lmao. That roster is dead on.

[timvp]

Erroneous!

Look at the date of that post.:lol

What does the date of the post have to do with it? You were down with the Rasho signing ... as the record clearly states.

:smokin

[ChumpDumper]

Not really because like I've said before after Jackson's season in Atlanta and Hedo's poor playoff performance there was absolutely nothing stopping the Spurs from giving Stephen Jackson the midlevel exception money that they gave to Barry. For some crazy reason the Spurs thought Barry would be better.

Also, I'm not sure if this is true, but at the time over at SR I remember reading someone saying that Tim Duncan called up S-Jax after the playoffs and told him "I want you back on the team". I think the Spurs would have had a real good chance at getting him back if they were willing to pay him. If he said no then fair enough, but I'm not sure the Spurs even tried or if he was even in the plans at that point?How is this not a wouldashouldacoulda post?

[timvp]

Archivist saves and squirrels away each and every discussion forum message....First of all, weren't you the one just yesterday quoting Kori after a Barry game from four years ago?

Second of all, how am I going to forget my "DO NOT SIGN RASHO" thread? That was a classic.

Third of all, you copied that Flame Warrior usage from when MB called you Filibuster.

[timvp]

Oh and for the record...

Whatever you may think my stance on Rasho is or was, you're wrong.

I said Rasho was talented but that his lack of aggression was not something Pop would ever be able to fix and that would be a problem because Spurs fans wanted David Robinson for the MLE...

I was right...he is talented, Pop couldn't fix his lack of aggression, and Spursfans do still want David Robinson for the MLE...whottt, it's not acceptable to lie in front of all the good people of SpursTalk :nope

You were the original ploto. Check the "DO NOT SIGN RASHO" thread for proof.

[whottt]

First of all, weren't you the one just yesterday quoting Kori after a Barry game from four years ago?

Yes...I was, I didn't have the link bookmarked though.




Second of all, how am I going to forget my "DO NOT SIGN RASHO" thread? That was a classic.

Oh I didn't expect you to forget it...





Third of all, you copied that Flame Warrior usage from when MB called you Filibuster.

False...that Flame Warrior site was around long before Spurs Talk was.

[whottt]

whottt, it's not acceptable to lie in front of all the good people of SpursTalk :nope

You were the original ploto. Check the "DO NOT SIGN RASHO" thread for proof.


Um...the alternative was Olowikandi...



Which one is still in the league?



Apology accepted.

[timvp]

Yes...I was, I didn't have the link bookmarked though. There is this thing called the search function. You should check it out :tu


False...that Flame Warrior site was around long before Spurs Talk was.MB used that Filibuster caption on you long ago. You copied his idea.

[whottt]

MB used that Filibuster caption on you long ago. You copied his idea.


Link?

[timvp]

Um...the alternative was Olowikandi...



Which one is still in the league?



Apology accepted.The options were Kandi for a short contract, Rasho for $42M over six years or Brad Miller for $50M over six years. As it turned out, Kandi sas the best option because at least he came off the books fast. Then Miller and then ya boy Rasho.

[whottt]

My first preference was Elton Brand, then Oberto...then Rasho.

And the fact you think Kandi would have been a better signing than Rasho, well, you just owned yourself worse than I ever could :tu

[SenorSpur]

Not really because like I've said before after Jackson's season in Atlanta and Hedo's poor playoff performance there was absolutely nothing stopping the Spurs from giving Stephen Jackson the midlevel exception money that they gave to Barry. For some crazy reason the Spurs thought Barry would be better.

Also, I'm not sure if this is true, but at the time over at SR I remember reading someone saying that Tim Duncan called up S-Jax after the playoffs and told him "I want you back on the team". I think the Spurs would have had a real good chance at getting him back if they were willing to pay him. If he said no then fair enough, but I'm not sure the Spurs even tried or if he was even in the plans at that point?

Really good information. Barry has been good for us. However Jack, at roughly the same price, would have been much better.

[timvp]

Link?Do you not know how to operate the search function?


Rasho was my third overall choice in the summer of 2003.:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

And you say you weren't a Rasho Sucker. :lol


And the fact you think Kandi would have been a better signing than Rasho, well, you just owned yourself worse than I ever could Use the search function to learn about the salary cap.

A bad player on a short contract >>>>>> A bust on a long contract

[ploto]

Who did we get back then again?

Robert Horry

[ploto]

As it turned out, Kandi was the best option because at least he came off the books fast. Then Miller and then ya boy Rasho.
You would rather currently have Brad Miller's 3 years and $34M over Rasho's 2 years and $16M. I don't think so.

[ploto]

The options were Kandi for a short contract, Rasho for $42M over six years or Brad Miller for $50M over six years.
Brad signed a seven year $68M contract. I don't think he was coming to the Spurs for that.

[timvp]

You would rather currently have Brad Miller's 3 years and $34M over Rasho's 2 years and $16M. I don't think so.

http://www.spurstalk.com/rashomiller.gif

I'll let the numbers speak.

[ploto]

You were the original ploto.
Hey, do not insult ME that way!!

I won't lie. Rasho was my first choice and I grateful for every moment he spent in San Antonio.

[timvp]

Hey, do not insult ME that way!!Apology Offered.


I won't lie. Rasho was my first choice and I grateful for every moment he spent in San Antonio.:tu

Now if whottt could admit the same.

[ploto]

Apology Offered.
Apology accepted.

I also know that Rasho turned down an offer worth $10M more to come to San Antonio. He wanted to be here that much. :cry

[timvp]

Apology accepted.

I also know that Rasho turned down an offer worth $10M more to come to San Antonio. He wanted to be here that much. :cryYeah, I don't blame Rasho for what happened. He had the b@lls to come to San Antonio for less money even though he was going to have to fill the shoes of David Robinson. Good guy, played to win and I wouldn't mind him back as a defensive specialist once his stint in Toronto ends.

If there is blame in the situation it's the Spurs for not knowing what they were getting when they signed him. It was an obvious mistake to me at the time because I knew what the Spurs wanted and I knew Rasho wasn't the right man for the job.

[ChumpDumper]

Really good information. Barry has been good for us. However Jack, at roughly the same price, would have been much better.And? How does that do anything for us now?

[whottt]

Now if whottt could admit the same.


Rasho was never ever ever my first choice...



That said...he played about how I expected he would, and he lost favor with Pop for the reasons I expected he would.


I still think he's talented...I still think he's not as bad as everyone said he was...and I still think he's not ever going to be A. Aggressive or B. David Robinson.



You're the one that shares Pop mindset that he can fix player's attitudes...and then you rip the players to shreds when he can't...Brent.

[SequSpur]

I could've swore I was the one who started that topic... :dizzy

What is funny is the tools that liked Olowakandi.... :lmao

[timvp]

Rasho was my first choice...



...he played about how I expected he would, and he lost favor with Pop for the reasons I expected he would. If everything went as expected, why the hell did you want him? You make no sense, Erin.

[whottt]

If everything went as expected, why the hell did you want him? You make no sense, Erin.

It wasn't so much that I wanted him...as it was David Robinson retired and we were going to get someone to replace David...I figured Rasho was one of the better options that offseason(he was), due to his shotblocking and his then decent offensive game, and so it wasn't big deal to me either way....because I knew we weren't replacing Drob.

I never completely liked Rasho and I never completely disliked him either...

He's a very talented player...he's also a very passive player.


That said...I'dve gladly taken him over Olo then...and I still would now...like right this instant.

I know, I know...Olo's better....because he's cheap or something like that...got it.

[ploto]

I wouldn't mind him back as a defensive specialist once his stint in Toronto ends.
From your keyboard to God's ears...

[rascal]

I don't want to see Rasho back. I knew he was not a good signing when it happened. That was the year the spurs waited two years prior with no major moves to sign a max free agent and all that was left was Rasho. I do not want non agressive, soft, boring, white centers.