Another swingman could be available

[SenorSpur]

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/01/26/green_wants_a_trade/

Green wants a trade
Wolves declined swingman's option


By Marc J. Spears
Globe Staff / January 26, 2008

The agent for the Timberwolves' seldom-used swingman, Gerald Green, an ex-Celtic, hopes to get his client a better playing opportunity in another NBA uniform.

Green's agent, Byron Irvin, told the Globe yesterday that he asked Wolves vice president of basketball operations Kevin McHale and general manager Jim Stack in early January if they would trade his client. Green is making $1.4 million this season and the Wolves have declined his option for next season, thus making him an unrestricted free agent this summer. The trading deadline is Feb. 21.

"I thought it was going to be a formality that they wanted to take his option, especially since he is a player coming out of high school," said Irvin, an ex-NBA player who is Celtics coach Doc Rivers's cousin, in a telephone interview. "His first year he averaged 5 points and his second year he averaged 10. You can see the development and the growth.

"When they didn't take the option, the first question I had immediately is whether he is in Minnesota's long-term goals. You have to give that time to answer the question. And after he hasn't played much through 41 games, I would have to say the answer to that question is no."

Green was the 18th overall pick in the 2005 draft by the Celtics out of Houston Gulf Shores Academy. The athletic 6-foot-8-inch, 200-pounder averaged 5.2 points in 31 games as a rookie with Boston. He averaged 10.4 points in 81 contests last season and won the 2007 All-Star Slam Dunk competition. Lakers star Kobe Bryant said last season that Green "reminds me of myself when I first came into the league."

On July 31, Green, Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, and Theo Ratliff, as well as two first-round picks, were dealt to Minnesota in exchange for Kevin Garnett. The Wolves, however, are very deep in young players and guard-forwards. After scoring 9 points in Minnesota's 87-86 loss to Boston last night, Green is averaging 4.7 points, 2.2 rebounds, 1.1 assists, and 11.9 minutes in 22 games.

"I'm just working hard every day in practice," said Green, who turns 22 today. "A lot of [positivity] comes from my teammates. They just keep telling me to keep working, keep getting better. I have vets like Antoine Walker, Greg Buckner, Mark Madsen, and Michael Doleac who keep me motivated to want to get better. That's all I'm trying to do.

"I'm just trying to look at everything as positive as I can to keep me motivated. Right now is a tough time, but I've got to stay self-motivated."

The Wolves bought out Juwan Howard's contract after he asked for a trade in the preseason but declined Buckner's early-season request to be traded. Through a Wolves spokesperson, Stack said: "At this time of the year, we're having conversations with teams about possible routes through the trade deadline."

When asked about his agent asking for a trade, Green said: "I'm just letting him handle it. I'm just staying focused on today's game and future games. That's something that Byron's going to have to focus on."

Rivers said he believes Green will be a "good player" in the NBA once he develops.

"It's going to take him time," Rivers said Thursday. "You've got to give him time. He's the Slam Dunk champion, not the basketball champion. We've got to let him play. We've got to let him grow. We've got to allow him to be coached.

"He has to keep improving and want to improve. Here, he was doing that. And from what I hear, he was working his butt off there. His time will come."

Said Celtics forward Paul Pierce: "Gerald is still trying to find himself."

[AFBlue]

Nice, yeah I just posted this one in the "Time for Trade" thread....

He's an unbelievable talent that hasn't had time on the court this year to show his stuff. When he was able to last year, this kid actually performed well...despite being only 21yrs old and coming straight out of high school.

He has the potential to be a deadly scorer on this level if he refines his game. Sure, his rebounding numbers are disappointing, but this kid could be special.

I think he's a definite option...

[SenorSpur]

Didn't know if he was yet another James White - another leaper with no developed game.

Could the Spurs be interested? Should they be interested?

Perhaps he could've been had in the Beno trade.

[ChumpDumper]

Another guy who won't help now.

[tav1]

There are better options available, to my mind. I'm not sure if Green is even D-League eligible. Green and Gomes doesn't work for Elson, cap-wise. And it doesn't make any sense for the Spurs to use a trade exception, exceed the threshhold, and pay something like 2.8 million to a kid who won't see the floor. I don't see this happening; I wouldn't want it to happen. Take a pass and make a trade elsewhere.

[tav1]

Another thought: Green wants a trade so that he can play a bit prior to free agency--that isn't happening in San Antonio. They should call Memphis or Cleveland or Utah.

[ThomasGranger]

Gomes could help now.

[Bruno]

To me, trading for Green makes no sense at all.

On the other hand, Gomes would be a great fit in SA. If Spurs can get him for a package of expirings (like Elson) and a first round pick, they should do it without a doubt. However, Gomes has been playing really well lately and I doubt Minny is ready to trade him. :depressed

[BacktoBasics]

To me, trading for Green makes no sense at all.

On the other hand, Gomes would be a great fit in SA. If Spurs can get him for a package of expirings (like Elson) and a first round pick, they should do it without a doubt. However, Gomes has been playing really well lately and I doubt Minny is ready to trade him. :depressed
I totally agree. Gomes is a hustler that could really make a difference off the bench for SA.

[AFBlue]

Gomes is clearly a piece of their future in Minny. I'd look for him to get a contract this off-season from the team.

On Green, I don't think he's another James White. He has proven on the NBA level already that when given the opportunity, he can be a scorer and regular rotation guy. Also, unlike White, Green has a nice jumper and can hit from 3pt range.

I don't think he's as ready a player like Rasual Butler or Mickael Pietrus, but he definitely has more upside than either.

I dunno, I just think he'd be worth the look.

[VaSpursFan]

green no...gomes, yes.

[lefty]

Fuck the available swingmen

[tav1]

How is Gomes an option? There isn't a single realistic scenario that brings him to the Spurs.

[Bruno]

It's not sure that Gomes is in Minny long term plan.
Wolves are looking to open cap space for the 09 summer and the problem is that Gomes will be a free agent this summer. Resigning him will eat a part of that cap space. You had to wonder if Gomes will agree to re-sign with a bad team while he has still spend 3 years on crappy teams.

Wolves face a dilemna :
Either you resign Gomes who is more a role player than an impact player or you don't resign him to have more cap space to get an impact player in 09.

Gomes is playing well now. I think it will push Minny to keep him but you can also think the opposite. Gomes playing well means that he will be more expensive this summer and takes more cap space. Gomes playing well also raises his trade value. I think Gomes can fetch a first round pick while it wasn't the case one month ago.

We will see, what will happen but I won't be really surprised to see Gomes traded at the deadline whether for draft picks or a cheap young player or as sweetener with one of Minny's bad contract.

[bostonguy]

Gomes is a really solid player. I love his game. I hated to see him traded but it landed us KG. Green has the skills and potiental to be a solid player as well. It is just a matter of if he can fully develop.

[Slinkyman]

If we wanted a guy who's only talent was dunking we should have kept James White.

[timvp]

Gerald Green reminds me a lot of JR Smith. Superstar talent and athleticism ... scrub worth ethic and attitude. For the Spurs, I'd rather have Smith just because he can shoot and would fit the system.

Either one would be a one or two year project that could blossom into a star. But yeah, neither one would help the Spurs win right now.

Regarding Gomes, I like him but the only thing I question is his quickness out on the perimeter. He sometimes has trouble staying in front of quick players.

[AFBlue]

It's not sure that Gomes is in Minny long term plan.
Wolves are looking to open cap space for the 09 summer and the problem is that Gomes will be a free agent this summer. Resigning him will eat a part of that cap space. You had to wonder if Gomes will agree to re-sign with a bad team while he has still spend 3 years on crappy teams.

Wolves face a dilemna :
Either you resign Gomes who is more a role player than an impact player or you don't resign him to have more cap space to get an impact player in 09.

Gomes is playing well now. I think it will push Minny to keep him but you can also think the opposite. Gomes playing well means that he will be more expensive this summer and takes more cap space. Gomes playing well also raises his trade value. I think Gomes can fetch a first round pick while it wasn't the case one month ago.

We will see, what will happen but I won't be really surprised to see Gomes traded at the deadline whether for draft picks or a cheap young player or as sweetener with one of Minny's bad contract.

He's a restricted FA, so I guess you'd be correct if someone comes out with an offer at or above the MLE....but anything within reason (Anderson Varajao-type deal) and I think the Wolves would match.

And I think while he'll never be a "star", he could certainly be more than a role player. I know it's a crappy team right now, but he's starting and averaging over 30MPG. Something tells me the Wolves will try HARD to hold on to him.

The guy they want to move to make room for the future is Marko Jaric.

[bigdog]

We really don't need another swingman. I know Barry is out 3-4 weeks, but rememeber we still have Jeremy Richardson, who looks like he will be signed for the rest of the season, unless they decide to bring back DerMarr Johnson.

Green is a good prospect for the future, but right now hi only strength is dunking and athleticism. He has had his flashes of a good jump shot, but it hasn't been consistent.

If you want a guy that can shoot, we should have kept DerMarr Johnson, who can also finish around the rim. I wouldn't be surprised if the Spurs bring him back within the next week.

Now, Jeremy Richardson, he has a chance, and I think he can be a solid player, and since he is on his second 10-day contract, he must be resigned for the rest of the season if they decide to keep him.

Like I've said before, the only thing we need is frontcourt consistency, because outside of Duncan, none of our big guys are that productive. Oberto is decent, but he is only good at doing little things. Bonner is ONLY an outside shooter, but he hustles and rebounds pretty well. Horry is ONLY an outside shooter, but he hasn't shown me ANYTHING as a reason to keep him this year. I'm repeating myself, but if you didn't read the time for trade thread, I basically said that Rob has nothing left in the tank. He had a couple of problems with Pop recently, and his playing time has reduced. There's no reason to keep a player if he doesn't at least have some type of production.

Elson is the guy that I think should be given a chance here. I've ALWAYS said that if Pop uses Elson the right way in this offense, he can be productive. Let him play some more. He usuall just gets garbage time now.

If that doesn't work out, bring in Mahinmi, who is tearing up the D-League right now.

[SenorSpur]

I'm getting the impression that, given a choice, many think Gomes would be a better fit than Green.

[Bruno]

He's a restricted FA, so I guess you'd be correct if someone comes out with an offer at or above the MLE....but anything within reason (Anderson Varajao-type deal) and I think the Wolves would match.

And I think while he'll never be a "star", he could certainly be more than a role player.

I guess we won't agree on that one.

While I would be thrilled to have Gomes with Spurs (mainly to play PF), I consider him as a kinda limited player who will never be more than a role player. To me, if Gomes receive a full MLE contract it won't be easy to match because he is worth slightly less than that.

[spurscenter]

i talked to him in Vegas at last years All Star Game and the kid is very nice and smart.

He is a texas boy, from houston. he and his crew were cool as we hung at the palms nightclub.

He had this huge chain ala stephen jackson and that was the only draw back. lol

But kid can play, can be very good, some compare him to a McGrady but as usual the politics of the NBA wont let him shine or at least try to.

Its Minnesota for god sakes, play a 2 team rotation every night and develop your talent, why sit them on the bench and insist on the starting 5 when the 5 have only won 8 games.

Some coaches are just into politics like a mo fo, adelman, karl dunleavey., etc.

its insane.

[Ghost Writer]

This is the cat that doesn't do much more than dunk, right?

I suppose he is worth a look if he can expand his game.

[Joe Schmoogins]

I say no to Green. James White v 2.0 eh... no thanks.

[lefty]

No more swingmen threads, please !!!!

[AFBlue]

This is the cat that doesn't do much more than dunk, right?

I suppose he is worth a look if he can expand his game.

Actually that's a misconception. He has a very smooth offensive game and a good jumpshot. He actually uses his athleticism to get height on his jumpshot and make it near unblockable.

I think what most mean by him being "raw" is actually learning how to operate within a system...but this kid CAN shoot the ball.

James White, conversely, used his athleticism almost exclusively and still really doesn't have a reliable jumpshot.

[Ghost Writer]

Um, no... all Green has demonstrated is the ability to dunk thus far.

Not saying he doesn't have more skills.

He needs to use them.

[AFBlue]

Um, no... all Green has demonstrated is the ability to dunk thus far.

Not saying he doesn't have more skills.

He needs to use them.


So he dunked his way to a 10PPG average in 81 games last season, while playing just over 20MPG?

I'm guessing the extent to which you've seen Green is in the dunk contest...which would then be understandable that all you think he has done is dunk.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not crazy about getting a guy who could bolt after the season with no recourse.

[Ghost Writer]

So he dunked his way to a 10PPG average in 81 games last season, while playing just over 20MPG?

I'm guessing the extent to which you've seen Green is in the dunk contest...which would then be understandable that all you think he has done is dunk.


Yes... do your research. Green scored more than 50% of his points off dunks/layups.

No... I am from the East Coast and watched the Celts regularly.

Don't argue with me. All I am saying is that he needs to expand his game.

Sir Charles said the same thing the other night.

Not saying he is not capable; he needs to show it.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Fuck the available swingmen
:lmao

[genomefreak13]

the spurs isn't gonna move him in, so why bother discussing his way out of minnesota. If he's available and the spurs need him then talk about him.

[hsxvvd]

We need to be drafting swingmen in this draft, not one to stash away either.

Brandon Rush would be nice and figures to be around where we'll picking.

[Ocotillo]

I'm not crazy about getting a guy who could bolt after the season with no recourse.

Probably the best thing written in this thread. If he is going to take time to develop, see above.

[Ghost Writer]

Who cares if he walks? Use the cap space to get someone else. Green will provide more dividends than a rookie would anyway.

[ChumpDumper]

There won't be any cap space.

[tav1]

There won't be any cap space.

Help me here. Horry, Barry, Finley and Elson all go. How is there no cap space?

[ChumpDumper]

They will still be over the salary cap and only have the exceptions available to them. Replacing the four players mentioned above using only exceptions is not something I would want to do.

[tav1]

They will still be over the salary cap and only have the exceptions available to them. Replacing the four players mentioned above using only exceptions is not something I would want to do.

To my mind, this amounts to another good reason to move Elson now.

[ChumpDumper]

To my mind, this amounts to another good reason to move Elson now.Not for a player with little chance of being retained and probably even smaller chance of helping this season.

[AFBlue]

They will still be over the salary cap and only have the exceptions available to them. Replacing the four players mentioned above using only exceptions is not something I would want to do.

According to hoopshype (not sure how reliable), they're actually going to be a $2-3M under the projected cap for next year....which would incidentally hurt them because then I don't think they qualify for the MLE if they're under.

Need some clarification from cap experts though...

[ChumpDumper]

Oberto's salary isn't listed, and even if they were $3 million under the cap they would have either the cap space or the exceptions available to them.

[AFBlue]

Oberto's salary isn't listed, and even if they were $3 million under the cap they would have either the cap space or the exceptions available to them.

Oberto's salary isn't listed but the other numbers, sans Oberto, don't add up to the $53M figure....so I assume they're including his salary.

And I understand that either way they'll have some money to play with...my point was to say that it would be better for them to make a trade for a multi-year contract person to ensure they have MORE money to play with in the off-season.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm fine with that kind of trade. These proposals for renting ineffectual players who won't make any difference this season and leave with no compensation this summer are stupid. I don't care about having MORE money to play with this summer because the amount of money available this summer is static unless we trade one of the big three for nothing.

[Ghost Writer]

They will still be over the salary cap and only have the exceptions available to them. Replacing the four players mentioned above using only exceptions is not something I would want to do.
That's your problem.

Just for the record... what DO you want to do?

Stand pat?

[ChumpDumper]

I'm perfectly fine taking on an actual NBA player with a year or two left on a reasonable contract after this season. These proposals to rent of marginal NBA players and let them go with no way to replace them is stupid.

[Ghost Writer]

Like who.

Please be constructive instead of acting like a spoiled baby swiping away perfectly good food.

[ChumpDumper]

Like not anyone you have suggested.

Don't be mad because your ideas suck. Look for a team that might want to shed salary. Maybe Memphis would dump Mike Miller for expiring deals, then we could use the resulting room under the tax threshold to sign/retain a couple of young guys like Richardson and Langford to finish out the year. If they work out we can keep all three this summer with no problem.

Now GFY, I gotta work for an hour.

[Ghost Writer]

LOL

Why would Memphis hand over M. Miller?

Because you want them to?

You're preposterous.

Kill yourself.

[SenorSpur]

We really don't need another swingman. I know Barry is out 3-4 weeks, but rememeber we still have Jeremy Richardson, who looks like he will be signed for the rest of the season, unless they decide to bring back DerMarr Johnson.



The Spurs like shooters who can spread the floor and DeMarr Johnson certainly demonstrated that he can shoot a bit. His lateral movement is a bit suspect, so I wonder if that could be improved upon. However he's no worse of a defender than either Barry or Finley at their advanced ages. I would've liked to see them bring DeMarr back too.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL

Why would Memphis hand over M. Miller?

Because you want them to?

You're preposterous.

Kill yourself.Money. You know, the thing you never ever think about when you dream up your stupid trades for players who suck.

Throw in some cash and a next year's regular picks.

You want Delonte West for pete's sake.

[ChumpDumper]

The Spurs like shooters who can spread the floor and DeMarr Johnson certainly demonstrated that he can shoot a bit. His lateral movement is a bit suspect, so I wonder if that could be improved upon. However he's no worse of a defender than either Barry or Finley at their advanced ages. I would've liked to see them bring DeMarr back too.Finley is a much better defender than DerMarr.

[tav1]

Money. You know, the thing you never ever think about when you dream up your stupid trades for players who suck.

Throw in some cash and a next year's regular picks.

You want Delonte West for pete's sake.

Mike Miller would be a tremendous fit but I don't think the Spurs would want him for the same reason Memphis would like to get rid of him--8.5 million.

Some of the guys I'm suggesting--Jack and Frye, Villanueva--would be locked up through next season, at the least. But part of their attraction is that they'd be locked up on inexpensive deals. Other guys, Juan Dixon, for example, I'm suggesting to fill potential problem spots in the roster--Barry injured, no third point for a guy (Elson) who isn't in the rotation.

[ChumpDumper]

Mike Miller would be a tremendous fit but I don't think the Spurs would want him for the same reason Memphis would like to get rid of him--8.5 million.That's just it -- the Spurs aren't planning on going under the cap until the summer of 2010 -- exactly when Miller's contract ends.

Memphis sucks and they are going to suck next season too. If they can suck for $9 million less (hell, $10 million less if the Spurs sweeten the deal with cash) and have a couple of draft picks to develop while they suck, bonus. They could even bump up their run at a max free agent one summer if they prefer.

[tav1]

That's just it -- the Spurs aren't planning on going under the cap until the summer of 2010 -- exactly when Miller's contract ends.

Memphis sucks and they are going to suck next season too. If they can suck for $9 million less (hell, $10 million less if the Spurs sweeten the deal with cash) and have a couple of draft picks to develop while they suck, bonus. They could even bump up their run at a max free agent one summer if they prefer.


Hmmm. And hopefully Mahinmi and Splitter would overplay their rookie contracts. Double hmmm.

Still seems too expensive, but I see where you're coming from.

I'd probably prefer this if they unloaded Bonner's contract in the deal and not Elson's.

[SenorSpur]

Finley is a much better defender than DerMarr.

OK. I'll bite.

But at least Johnson can stroke it a bit. I just wonder if he could ever get better defensively. Certainly has length.

[mountainballer]

That's just it -- the Spurs aren't planning on going under the cap until the summer of 2010 -- exactly when Miller's contract ends.

Memphis sucks and they are going to suck next season too. If they can suck for $9 million less (hell, $10 million less if the Spurs sweeten the deal with cash) and have a couple of draft picks to develop while they suck, bonus. They could even bump up their run at a max free agent one summer if they prefer.

as much as I love the idea of getting Miller (who is fantastic and still by far underrated. I don't know exactly, but he might be be the guard/wing with the best points per shot average over the last 5 years. he's always over 1.3, currently at 1.43. people don't care enough for that stat IMO) and as much as I follow your point, that the Grizzlies might be willing to give him away just for financial reasons, the problem will be, that if the Grizzlies put him on the market, there are several other teams, that can offer expiring contracts PLUS sweeteners (like lottery picks and/or young talents on cheap contracts).
take the Heat. Miller would be exactly what they need. they can offer Williams plus a very promising talent in Cook.
(who plays the position of Wade anyhow. and who the Grizzlie do have a big need for. and who they for sure would love to reunite with Conley, since they know that this tandem does work very well.)

the question will be, are the Spurs willing to ,for example, sacrifice Splitter plus a 1st rounder to become an interesting trade partner, if someone like Miller is on the market?

[tomcat]

I's be surprised if the Spurs keep Richardson past Wednesday. :dizzy

[AFBlue]

I's be surprised if the Spurs keep Richardson past Wednesday. :dizzy

Especially since they're going hard after Stoudamire by all accounts...