Trade Dwight Howard for Tim Duncan?

[LEONARD]

Hypothetical...based on talent and where they are in their careers right now (ie, ignore money)...

Would you be mad if the Spurs traded Duncan for Howard???

[hater]

nope.
but I'd do Nowitzki for Oberto

[Supreme_Being]

Er. No.

Francisco Elson For Emeka Okafor.

[TDMVPDPOY]

it depends

is that offer of free lifetime donuts still on the table?

[bdictjames]

Magic would be a title contender.

If that would happen I'd be a Magic fan, it doesn't really matter as long Duncan keeps dominating.

[Ghost Writer]

Of course you would do that trade, but they wouldn't.

And it is really just the age difference... I don't think Howard is a complete player.

Watch in the playoffs this year.

I pegged the Hornets in the West and Magic in the East as my darkhorses.

But I am telling you right now that the Magic will not escape the first round unless Rashard Lewis asserts himself and Howard develops more than a dunk on offense.

[MannyIsGod]

I'd never do it because Tim Duncan IS the Spurs. He's an icon for this franchise and its championships and it would be a travesty for him to ever play for anyone else. That counts for something.

Now lets say that doesn't factor in then I do the trade in a heartbeat. Howard is a straight up beast. BEAST.

[baseline bum]

I wouldn't trade Duncan for anything.

[m33p0]

Hypothetical...based on talent and where they are in their careers right now (ie, ignore money)...

Would you be mad if the Spurs traded Duncan for Howard???
wtf are you talking about? based on talent, duncan is so far ahead of howard. rememberm a 16 year old duncan almost outplayed a rookie zo. furthermore, this current spurs team IS duncan. you can forget about burning the arena if ever duncan was traded for howard. you better call in the national guard to quell the riot.

[Xylus]

I would do this trade in 3 years, but definitely not now. Duncan still has enough in the tank to win a couple more rings, especially with Ginobili and Parker at his side.

[rascal]

No Duncan should play out his career and go into the hall of fame as a Spur. Duncan is the reason the spurs have won 4 titles and are in the playoffs every year.

[ducks]

offseason thread

[Ghost Writer]

This is all hypothetical, of course, but if Duncan was willing to get traded for some solid parts in a year or two, you would have to think about it.

Why?

What are the chances that the small-market Spurs can land yet another all-franchise big man in the draft again?

Look at the Wolves. They traded Garnett and sure they suck now. But they also got Al Jefferson to build around.

The Spurs presumably would still have Ginobili and Parker in place.

Again, we owe it to Duncan after all he's done both on and off the court for the team (accepting lesser deals to keep the team in tact), but if he was willing towards the end -- trade him for the future.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I don't think much of the fans of other teams underestimating Tim Duncan...but it's annoying when Spurs fans post something like this.

[Ghost Writer]

Whatever, man. You need to be more open-mined about the future, Edward.

[SpursWillOwn]

hypothetically, no. formula for this spurs team proven to work. takin howard is a new mix. i'd personally be happy tho. i'd see duncan in orlando night in night out!

[spursfan09]

Why? No free agent will never want to come here. Random free agent: "If the spurs just up and traded Duncan, the greatest player to ever play for them.. how do I know they woun't show me the same disloyalty. No thanks!"

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Whatever, man. You need to be more open-mined about the future, Edward.

I think there's a slight correlation between having Tim Duncan on the roster and the Spurs chances at winning a championship. We've had a lot of great players wear the Spurs uniform over the years, but only one player has ever had what it took to take a team to the title.

I can see Duncan keeping the Spurs in the forefront of the title chase for another 5 years. Howard is a great talent...but you just don't replace the cornerstone of your franchise with anyone, no matter how his statsheet looks.

Replacing the player primarily responsible for keeping your team the winningest in sports over the last decade is just plain shtu-ped.

[duncan228]

Hypothetical or not...Thinking about trading Duncan is a waste of time.

He is a Spur for life. He brought this city 4 Titles, his resume is incredible. He fits this team and this city like he was made for it. He has earned the right to retire a Spur when he feels he's ready to hang it up. His jersey belongs in the rafters of the ATT Center.

It took me 10 minutes to even be able to think about posting in this thread.
Duncan is this team. He has earned and deserves the respect due to him. His name is never in the conversation for trade possibilities, no matter who could be brought in for him. He left money on the table to help the team build as he finishes his career...as a Spur.

I'm an admitted Duncan homer, but I think I'm on track here. It's not even a fun thing to think about. I shuddered when I saw the thread title.

Have fun playing with the idea, but count me out. :)

[wildbill2u]

Hypothetical...based on talent and where they are in their careers right now (ie, ignore money)...

Would you be mad if the Spurs traded Duncan for Howard???
Would I be mad? Nope, I could easily forget all the years that Tim Duncan has carried the Spurs.

Likewise, if anyone brought up the fact that he took a pay cut to keep the team competitive and keep Manu and Tony, I'd just say, "Hey, what has he done for me lately ?"

And the fact that he's truly been the team leader, molding the team by his own character into an unselfish bunch of team players who are respected around the league isn't as important as getting a young guy with talent.

Would I be mad? :depressed :pctoss

[Indazone]

He'll never get traded. That's like asking the Bulls to trade Michael Jordan.

[baseline bum]

If the Spurs ever traded Tim, I'd immediately drop all allegiances to them, and become a fan of whatever team they traded him to.

[duncan228]

If the Spurs ever traded Tim, I'd immediately drop all allegiances to them, and become a fan of whatever team they traded him to.

I'd be with you.

[Ghost Writer]

What if Duncan agreed to be traded?

What is the Spurs succession strategy?

[whottt]

Bad logic...

Forget about the emotional attatchment...


Tim Duncan can put you in a title hunt, right now, this season...

Dwight Howard really can't...he can put an sload of blocks, boards and dunks...


So if you do that trade, even if it helps your future...it hurts your present.


No I don't do that trade...because you are throwing away a better chance at a title....a good chance.



And Manu and Parker aren't consistent enough to make up for that intangible loss...if they were consistent, we'd have the best record in the NBA right now.

[nfg3]

Not going to happen. Though I love to have Dwight by the time he was even close to contributing like TD - I'd think a min. of 2 -3 years to get close - Manu would most likely be in serious decline and TP heading in that direction. Our team is built for now not later and this isn't even discussing the contributions as a Spur over the last ten years plus his leadership, carrying the team ...etc.

[Spurminator]

Even if Duncan agreed to be traded, we would not land a Dwight Howard in the package. The only way Duncan would be traded is to a team looking to make a run at the title, so that team wouldn't be giving us its franchise players.

When Duncan retries, there's the off chance we can sign a marquee player, but more than likely we're going to have to wait and get lucky in the Draft again. And I'm okay with a few bad years after this run.

Stop worrying and enjoy being a fan of a historically great team.

[Ghost Writer]

I'm not.

[LEONARD]

I agree with everybody...this thread is stupid...

[rascal]

Even if Duncan agreed to be traded, we would not land a Dwight Howard in the package. The only way Duncan would be traded is to a team looking to make a run at the title, so that team wouldn't be giving us its franchise players.

When Duncan retries, there's the off chance we can sign a marquee player, but more than likely we're going to have to wait and get lucky in the Draft again. And I'm okay with a few bad years after this run.

Stop worrying and enjoy being a fan of a historically great team.

You can be waiting for many years if your planning to get lucky in the draft. A few bad years can turn into decades.

[Ghost Writer]

I can't believe that Spurs fans count on "getting lucky again in the draft" as a succession strategy for life after Duncan.

First, you need a top draft pick.

Then he has to result in a franchise player.

Oh, and then you have to sell him on staying in San Antonio after 3 seasons of development.

I guess homers assume that Robinsons and Duncans grow on trees.

[Evan]

But what if you got a lot of draft picks as well as a young player? Surely you would accept someone.

Who and what team?

[whottt]

I can't believe that Spurs fans count on "getting lucky again in the draft" as a succession strategy for life after Duncan.

First, you need a top draft pick.

Then he has to result in a franchise player.

Oh, and then you have to sell him on staying in San Antonio after 3 seasons of development.

I guess homers assume that Robinsons and Duncans grow on trees.


And I can't believe you and Rascal would trade a great shot at a title this season, and probably next, for being guranteed of being a "good" team in a few years...


I thought you guys were about the championship...if all you're about is being good...we can do that with Duncan too.

[Spurminator]

I would like to hear ONE reasonable scenario in which we net a franchise player in a trade for Tim Duncan. Just one. And you have to give rationale for why both teams would agree to that deal.


I guess homers assume that Robinsons and Duncans grow on trees.

Says the guy who wants to trade Duncan....

[Ghost Writer]

Slooooow down...

First of all, I agree with Spurm, that these "trade a Spur for a young franchise player" threads are absurd.

But what am saying is not this year... maybe not next year... but if the Spurs were in a situation like the Lakers were in when Shaq wanted out, you should look to trade Duncan before he retires for some picks or young talent.

And of course this would have to be with Duncan's consent and we'd have to look at what we were getting back.

It's going to be a major reality check if Duncan retires and you homers are counting on winning the lottery again.

[Extra Stout]

I can't believe that Spurs fans count on "getting lucky again in the draft" as a succession strategy for life after Duncan.

First, you need a top draft pick.

Then he has to result in a franchise player.

Oh, and then you have to sell him on staying in San Antonio after 3 seasons of development.

I guess homers assume that Robinsons and Duncans grow on trees.
I have a hard time commenting because I'm not really sure what Ghost's premise is.

Trade Duncan now? In five years? Whenever? Are we assuming that a trade would be in line with historical aging-franchise-player trades in terms of return, or a pure hypothetical where the Spurs get a lopsided deal for a young All-NBA-caliber PF/C in exchange for a hobbled old Duncan?

And what is the expectation for a succession plan? Returning to serious title contention as soon as possible? Keeping the team in the 50-win range? Making the playoffs?

[Extra Stout]

Slooooow down...

First of all, I agree with Spurm, that these "trade a Spur for a young franchise player" threads are absurd.

But what am saying is not this year... maybe not next year... but if the Spurs were in a situation like the Lakers were in when Shaq wanted out, you should look to trade Duncan before he retires for some picks or young talent.

And of course this would have to be with Duncan's consent and we'd have to look at what we were getting back.

It's going to be a major reality check if Duncan retires and you homers are counting on winning the lottery again.
OK.

Take the Lakers as an example. This year they are finally back as a legitimate threat to advance in the postseason. Is that primarily because of:
A) the players they got from the Shaq trade to play around Kobe
B) the young talent they drafted to play around Kobe?

[Spurminator]

I don't see Duncan playing past his All-Star calibur years or the Spurs run as a title contender, but if he did, and he wanted to go to a Championship contender for one last shot at the ring, then yeah, I'd honor that. (Ed: And you'd probably get 50% value back at best.) But I don't think you approach Duncan with the idea of trading him.

Obviously, the next best option is making a splash free agent signing. I'd love to see that happen instead of counting on the draft, and if Pop stuck around I guess it's possible that you might be able to convince a free agent to come play for the Spurs. But we haven't even been able to lure top-tier players to play beside Tim Duncan when we've had the money, so I'm not counting on Free Agency as the solution.

So that leaves the Draft. It's not the ideal situation but it's the most realistic. We're not trading Duncan unless he wants to be traded.

[ClingingMars]

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/Stupid/reality.jpg

Jesus fucking Christ, who put something in San Antonio's water.

I hope duncan228 doesn't see this piece of shit you call an idea.

-Mars

[Ghost Writer]

Good questions.

I guess my premise is that if a contender comes calling in 2 years and is willing to give us a proven young talent, a couple first rounders and maybe a decent veteran for a 34-year old Tim Duncan - and Duncan is willing to go - we should look at it.

We are not big time where free agents want to flock here or have a front office that will splurge on a superstar and go way over the cap.

We're good because we get lucky and know how to build around that.

I'm nervous for life after Duncan.

[ClingingMars]

300 had a good line...

"This is blasphemy...this is madness."

I guess this is just San Antonio sports.

-Mars

[timvp]

Jesus fucking Christ, who put something in San Antonio's water.None of the last 20 or so posts have been authored by a San Antonio resident.


-MarsYeah, I can see your screen name.

[Extra Stout]

Good questions.

I guess my premise is that if a contender comes calling in 2 years and is willing to give us a proven young talent, a couple first rounders and maybe a decent veteran for a 34-year old Tim Duncan - and Duncan is willing to go - we should look at it.

We are not big time where free agents want to flock here or have a front office that will splurge on a superstar and go way over the cap.

We're good because we get lucky and know how to build around that.

I'm nervous for life after Duncan.
How talented is the young talent? Are we talking Lamar Odom-talented or Carmelo Anthony-talented?

[Ghost Writer]

I will leave that undefined, but closer to Odom-level. Not a bonafide franchise player.

But the idea is that the trade would yield "something" at the cost of 2-3 years of Duncan's twilight.

[Spurminator]

And as unlikely as a splash free agent signing is, I'd rather take my chances with that and the draft than be stuck in the mediocrity that would result in paying $12 million to a Lamar Odom.

[Ghost Writer]

That's fair, Spurm.

There is also dignity in letting your franchise player retire with dignity on your team.

But if the right deal came along with the right mix of players and picks...





I just am really concerned about becoming like the Bucks.

[Extra Stout]

I will leave that undefined, but closer to Odom-level. Not a bonafide franchise player.

But the idea is that the trade would yield "something" at the cost of 2-3 years of Duncan's twilight.
"Something" at the level of Lamar Odom is not enough. That's not a player you can build around. That's a player who might be one of the guys you put next to the guy you hope to build around.

I'm not going to imagine that those first-round draft picks in your hypothesis are going to be in the lottery. If a team is looking to get Duncan, and he's willing to go, they're probably doing so in order to contend for a title.

So, in sum you're getting role players, and draft picks that likely turn into nothing more than role players. The result will be a mediocre-at-best team still hoping to get lucky in the draft down the road. And you're sacrificing one or two title chances, not chances as the favorite, but still decent chances, to get that.

So, if you keep Duncan, you end up when he retires with a terrible team looking to get lucky in the draft in order to return to contention. If you trade Duncan, you end up with a mediocre team looking to get lucky in the draft in order to return to contention. Either way, you can't escape the fate of waiting for the next Duncan or Robinson to come in the lottery.

[whottt]

So Ghost...what you are saying is that in 2 or 3 years when Duncan is 34-35 years old, if he wants out, you'd trade him for Dwight Howard?


I'll agree with that one :tu

[whottt]

IF you trade him for mediocre talent you don't suck bad enough to get the lottery picks needed to become a contender again...best just to crash and burn.


There's titles...and then there's not titles.

[birdy219]

[QUOTE=Spurminator]I would like to hear ONE reasonable scenario in which we net a franchise player in a trade for Tim Duncan. Just one. And you have to give rationale for why both teams would agree to that deal.


First, I would not trade Timmy for anyone. But I think that the Lakers would trade Kobe for Timmy in a minute. Besides Timmay, there are only three untradeable players.....LeBron, Dwight, and Nash.........although Chris Paul is making himself look pretty untradeable.

[Spurminator]

First, I would not trade Timmy for anyone. But I think that the Lakers would trade Kobe for Timmy in a minute. Besides Timmay, there are only three untradeable players.....LeBron, Dwight, and Nash.........although Chris Paul is making himself look pretty untradeable.


Right now? Sure they would, but the Spurs wouldn't.

[exstatic]

Tim Duncan has NEVER been shut down in the playoffs the way Detroit nullified Howard last year.

If you trade Duncan, you never get enough value in return. Yes, the Spurs are GOING to suck when he leaves, but I'll roll the bones with those 2-3 "twilight" years. Tim Duncan is a basketball player. Dwight Howard is a jumping jack.

[rasho8]

Hypothetical...based on talent and where they are in their careers right now (ie, ignore money)...

Would you be mad if the Spurs traded Duncan for Howard???

Let me say to this what I say to the Manu/Tony threads.

Fucking Moron.

[Don Quixote]

Yes, another pointless thread.

Tim IS the Spurs. No way he gets traded. Inconceivable. And no way Orlando lets go of the next David Robinson, either.

[Louie Vega]

I love Howard man but there is only 1 Tim Duncan!

[genomefreak13]

Nope. Why trade a winner for a loser?

[greyforest]

i dont understand all the howard hate, the guy is fucking 22 years old and already carries his team

[Louie Vega]

i dont understand all the howard hate, the guy is fucking 22 years old and already carries his team



I think people are hating more on this thread then they are on Howard himself. Howard will be great one day but not as great as Tim.

[LEONARD]

http://www.xsltblog.com/archives/24805BP~The-Simpsons-Mr-Burns-Excellent.jpg

[Evan]

Yes, another pointless thread.

Tim IS the Spurs. No way he gets traded. Inconceivable. And no way Orlando lets go of the next David Robinson, either.

Who are you to judge threads? HUH?!?!?!

Don't you need to trade him before too long to reload the team since he is all you have really?

Why be good again in 2030...

The future people...think of the future!