More Mass Graves Found In Iraq!

[Nbadan]

Saddam that SOB!!!

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/rdonlyres/E99344D7-8180-4213-AA0C-7C57FD93327B/59431/1937.jpg

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/rdonlyres/0A91FDE6-9F82-4528-843D-D24210BA0E08/59428/1927.jpg

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/rdonlyres/ADDDFA91-A7AF-47F6-A5DD-E7BBD307E4FA/59429/1932.jpg

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Oh, sorry those are our mass graves from Falluja, my bad!

:hat

[Yonivore]

What? Did you put aluminum foil on your windows so you wouldn't know it was daylight outside?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Simple solution, quit shooting at us, and your fellow Iraqi countrymen trying to make your country a better place.

It couldn't be that simple, could it?

[Useruser666]

Thank you TokyoDan.

[Yonivore]

Thank you TokyoDan.

:lol No shit!

[Nbadan]

quit shooting at us

:rolleyes

I'm sure some of them were shooting at Saddam too.


Thank you TokyoDan

Thanks Goebbels.

[Useruser666]

What is the point of your posting this thread Dan? I'm sorry, but I for one can no longer believe you are person concerned for America anymore. You obviously have either a sinister motive or simply like listening to the sound of your own voice. Your takes are either repeats of things commonly known and previously posted or are wildly reaching in nature.

Your comment, "Oh, sorry those are our mass graves from Falluja, my bad!", reminds me so much of the Iraq Info Minister's, "The Infedels are dying at the gates of Baghdad!" Do you actually believe that anyone who reads the political forum doesn't know that there are civilian casualties in Iraq? In any war?

Your arguments might gain a slight shred of respect if you actually posted the opinions of people who actually know what the hell they are talking about. Instead you spout forth your own half-baked ideas and expect eveyone to fall all over themselves at your every post. Anyone who doesn't is obviously a Fox stock holder or is dating the aunt, of the son's, grandfather's dog walker, who's dog is no doubt Republican.

I'm am not Yonivore, the anti-Dan. I don't fit in any sterotype you would love to place me in. When you can't catagorize someone it scares you. Your insults get shorter and revert to sexual/potty humor or as many have noticed, "on the sly" racism.

I only have posted in threads you start because I feel a need to balance out the rediculous with reason, the insane with sanity. If you knew where Osama Bin Laden was hiding would you call Bush and tell him?

[Yonivore]

"I'm am not Yonivore, the anti-Dan."
Hey! I resent that...I prefer to be known as the non-Dan (since I have him on ignore and am unable to specifically counter his argument in a manner that might earn the "anti-" moniker.)

"If you knew where Osama Bin Laden was hiding would you call Bush and tell him?"
Okay, someone please tell me if Nbadanallah answers this one.

[bigzak25]

guys, Dan is comic relief.

either he believes all he spews, and through his negativity is actually helping the conservative cause, or he doesn't believe it, and he's just getting his rocks off on getting under other posters skin.....

either way, doesn't bother me.

always sad when innocents die Danman. does the end justify the means? we shall see.

[Hook Dem]

It seems there is no limit to the number of spankings Dan will give America. He is truly a sad case. No one gives him any credibility.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Dan's the kind of fucked up individual who would bitch about us dropping a nuke on western Pakistan/east Afghanistan if AQ set off a nuke in LA or NY, saying we're the murderers, and it's all part of Bush's plot to take over the world.

[Useruser666]

He doesn't get under my skin. It just funny how he wouldn't respond to a direct question again yet post several more threads of BS. He is a propaganda machine and nothing more.

[Nbadan]

What is the point of your posting this thread Dan? I'm sorry, but I for one can no longer believe you are person concerned for America anymore. You obviously have either a sinister motive or simply like listening to the sound of your own voice. Your takes are either repeats of things commonly known and previously posted or are wildly reaching in nature.

Your comment, "Oh, sorry those are our mass graves from Falluja, my bad!", reminds me so much of the Iraq Info Minister's, "The Infedels are dying at the gates of Baghdad!" Do you actually believe that anyone who reads the political forum doesn't know that there are civilian casualties in Iraq? In any war?

Your arguments might gain a slight shred of respect if you actually posted the opinions of people who actually know what the hell they are talking about. Instead you spout forth your own half-baked ideas and expect eveyone to fall all over themselves at your every post. Anyone who doesn't is obviously a Fox stock holder or is dating the aunt, of the son's, grandfather's dog walker, who's dog is no doubt Republican.

I'm am not Yonivore, the anti-Dan. I don't fit in any sterotype you would love to place me in. When you can't catagorize someone it scares you. Your insults get shorter and revert to sexual/potty humor or as many have noticed, "on the sly" racism.

I only have posted in threads you start because I feel a need to balance out the rediculous with reason, the insane with sanity. If you knew where Osama Bin Laden was hiding would you call Bush and tell him?

[NeoConIV]

Saddam that SOB!!!

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/rdonlyres/E99344D7-8180-4213-AA0C-7C57FD93327B/59431/1937.jpg

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/rdonlyres/0A91FDE6-9F82-4528-843D-D24210BA0E08/59428/1927.jpg

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/rdonlyres/ADDDFA91-A7AF-47F6-A5DD-E7BBD307E4FA/59429/1932.jpg

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Oh, sorry those are our mass graves from Falluja, my bad!

:hat

http://www.idfisrael.com/bushottawa%20(43).JPG

[Nbadan]

The Iraq War isn't about Israel per Se, it's about oil, it's distribution, and proping up the weak dollar against the Euro and other foreign currencies while piliging the resources of other countries - Imperialism 21st century style.

[NeoConIV]

http://www.idfisrael.com/bushottawa%20(19).JPG

http://www.idfisrael.com/bushottawa%20(30).JPG

[NeoConIV]

The Iraq War isn't about Israel per Se, it's about oil, it's distribution, and proping up the weak dollar against the Euro and other foreign currencies while piliging the resources of other countries - Imperialism 21st century style.
Keep telling the lie...

Keep telling the lie...

[Yonivore]

I looked at the photos Nbadanallah posted (as they were "quoted" in another post) and would like to point out a couple of obvious differences in what I see as a cemetary and Saddam Hussein's mass graves.

Saddam's mass graves were unmarked.

Saddam's mass graves were just that -- mass graves, not individual plots.

Saddam's mass graves were remotely located.

Saddam's mass gravesites were unwelcome to grieving families.

Saddam's mass gravesites weren't open to the media.

We can't see the occupants of the graves in those pictures so, I can't draw a conclusion as to their status when alive -- combatant, innocent, or other. As far as I know, Saddam's mass graves contained the innocent Kurds and Shi'ites he slaughtered after the '91 Gulf War...I'm not aware of any armed conflict, within Iraq, where enemy combatants would have been killed and bulldozed into big holes in the ground.

I'm sure there's more...If I cared to think about it more.

[NeoConIV]

Great points Yoni, but remember, this war is about oil.

[Nbadan]

What is the point of your posting this thread Dan? I'm sorry, but I for one can no longer believe you are person concerned for America anymore. You obviously have either a sinister motive or simply like listening to the sound of your own voice. Your takes are either repeats of things commonly known and previously posted or are wildly reaching in nature.

Your comment, "Oh, sorry those are our mass graves from Falluja, my bad!", reminds me so much of the Iraq Info Minister's, "The Infedels are dying at the gates of Baghdad!" Do you actually believe that anyone who reads the political forum doesn't know that there are civilian casualties in Iraq? In any war?

Your arguments might gain a slight shred of respect if you actually posted the opinions of people who actually know what the hell they are talking about. Instead you spout forth your own half-baked ideas and expect eveyone to fall all over themselves at your every post. Anyone who doesn't is obviously a Fox stock holder or is dating the aunt, of the son's, grandfather's dog walker, who's dog is no doubt Republican.

I'm am not Yonivore, the anti-Dan. I don't fit in any sterotype you would love to place me in. When you can't catagorize someone it scares you. Your insults get shorter and revert to sexual/potty humor or as many have noticed, "on the sly" racism.

I only have posted in threads you start because I feel a need to balance out the rediculous with reason, the insane with sanity. If you knew where Osama Bin Laden was hiding would you call Bush and tell him?

Does be-gruding me personally, or challenging my patriotism make you feel like your shallow arguments carry more weight or somehow help legitimize your fringe opinions? Because they don't. Someone once wrote that patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels. I think you should take that to heart because whenever you try do it, it makes you, not me appear to be the extremist.

This post wasn't sinister, it was simply intented to help readers empathise with, despite our ground troops best efforts, why we are continously losing the war of hearts and minds of everyday Iraqis, and why insurgents now outnumber coalition troops. Something I think our MSM does a horrible job of conveying on a day-to-day basis.

I don't write here just because I have some egotistical need to be heard. I write here with the hope that my views help to represent the views of those who can't write here, the 100,000 dead and maimed Iraqi civilians, the views of several World bodies, including the U.N. and NATO, the views of the Pope and the Vatican, and the views of 48%, 58+ million Americans who stood up on November 2nd and said no more war for oil Mr. Bush, no more war for oil.

[whottt]

The Iraq War isn't about Israel per Se, it's about oil, it's distribution, and proping up the weak dollar against the Euro and other foreign currencies while piliging the resources of other countries - Imperialism 21st century style.

And do you really think it isn't about Oil on the part of Millitant Islam?

And do you know what they do to help their people when they get Oil?

They do nothing except create a dual class and opressive society rooted in bigotry, racism, fascism, sexism, religious persecution, lack of civil and humanitarian rights, and everything else you claim to despise, and they do it at a greater degree than it is practiced anywhere else in this world...

And then they still turn around and sell us the Oil anyway because we are the largest consumer of Oil in the World, we are the best ally in the world, we are the worst enemy in the world, and we have the most money to buy oil with, the most technology to trade for it with, and the best economy for them to invest their wealth in...

You should recognize that model...It's the type corrupt regimes you guys like to say we support...you know. You know, the type that we give their poor humanitarian aid that never makes it through the corruption to actually help their lower class...

And then you know what they do?

Their upperclass lets their lower class live in total squalor without a shred of compassion or concern for their quality of life, they do not create social progams to help their lower class, they leave it up to the charity of western nations, and US Aid programs, while a few PCT of their population gorge themselves on the wealth of the country, as well as our aid...in fact they actually do everything in their power to create a bitter, angry and monstrous lower class of people to use as political and military weapon...

And you know what they do with that monster class of their society?

They channel all that anger and hatred towards their enemies...they point the finger and give it direction...they tell them who to hate and blame for their misery...


And you know who they tell those monsters they have created they should hate? America.
They tell them it's all our fault, America the great Satan...and you know what those people become?

They become terrorists.

Once you figure this out, and stop chasing your tail, you will realize that the time had and has come for things to change in the middle east...Not the continuation of the opressive and backwards despotisms set up by Europe at the end of WWI and II.

You cannot say it will fail because there has never been an undertaking like this on our part in the middle east...you have nothing to base up your own stance upon except cynicism, there is nothing factual about it...and you choose to totally ignore what America has historically done and the success she has had when faced with similar situations in the past. You also choose totally ignore the success of Democracy compared to all other forms of government.

America is not a colonial power, it is not truly an imperial power...what it is is a capitalist power, a capitalist power with a conscience that comes from it's people and an accountability to it's people...it solves problems, permanently, and compared to every other World Power in history, fairly, and she figures out a way to make money while doing these things...America is as altrusitc as country gets when it comes to these things...

This is what we have done historically in post war reconstruction projects and if you can find anything that refutes this then please show me...

And furthermore, your entire stance on this subject is contradictory, you moan and decry what you feel to be a loss of innocent life yet you totally ignore the fact that was occurring before we were there...and whether or not it is happening in greater frequency now...there is an end in sight, whereas before there was none...just continued suffering.



You cynicism is lazy, it's unoriginal, it's naive in a unique way, and it's largely wrong.

And don't ever claim you are a Democrat or support Democracy, because you aren't and you don't and your every post proves it...you hate it, and you would deny it to other people, while thoroughly and constantly enjoying for yourself, the best parts of it.

[MannyIsGod]

Dan's the kind of fucked up individual who would bitch about us dropping a nuke on western Pakistan/east Afghanistan if AQ set off a nuke in LA or NY, saying we're the murderers, and it's all part of Bush's plot to take over the world.

Just for the record, I must be a fucked up individual becaue I think responding with a nuke to a terrorist nuke is idiotic and would do much more harm than good.

Ok, go back to what you were doing before.

[MannyIsGod]

Whottttttttttttttttttttttttttttt,

I agree with most of your analysis in the post above what I've quoted below

[Qoute]
Once you figure this out, and stop chasing your tail, you will realize that the time had and has come for things to change in the middle east...Not the continuation of the opressive and backwards despotisms set up by Europe at the end of WWI and II.
[/quote]

I agree with this in large part as well, however I definetly think the United States is going about it in a very bad way.


You cannot say it will fail because there has never been an undertaking like this on our part in the middle east...you have nothing to base up your own stance upon except cynicism, there is nothing factual about it...and you choose to totally ignore what America has historically done and the success she has had when faced with similar situations in the past. You also choose totally ignore the success of Democracy compared to all other forms of government.


To use your logic in this, you can't say it will succeed because there has never been an undertaking like this on our part in the middle east. The problem is that the United States does have a history of aserting it's power to bring about change in countries. It has not always worked out in beneficial ways for everyone involved. There is cynicism that is based upon the US's history of creating problems in situations like this instead of solving them.

However, give me situations where the US has made beneficial moves in this manner in the past 50 years. What are you basing your optimism on?



America is not a colonial power, it is not truly an imperial power...what it is is a capitalist power, a capitalist power with a conscience that comes from it's people and an accountability to it's people...it solves problems, permanently, and compared to every other World Power in history, fairly, and she figures out a way to make money while doing these things...America is as altrusitc as country gets when it comes to these things...

Is there really an accountability to it's people? The vast majority of the people in this country can't tell you what's going in with the countries actions and don't know very much about the history of what it has done and what it does.

No, there is very little accountability when the leaders of this country spin everything in their favor.



This is what we have done historically in post war reconstruction projects and if you can find anything that refutes this then please show me...


When we spend the money and make an effort (like we are doing now in Iraq), we can stablize situations. It is important to remember however, that in Iraq money may not be enough because of the 3 sects in place there. At this point, I'm crossing my fingers that the elections go as well as possible, but I honestly don't expect things to work out.



And furthermore, your entire stance on this subject is contradictory, you moan and decry what you feel to be a loss of innocent life yet you totally ignore the fact that was occurring before we were there...and whether or not it is happening in greater frequency now...there is an end in sight, whereas before there was none...just continued suffering.



I don't speak for Dan, but here's the way I feel about the entire situation.

It's been handled like shit. We continuely rush into situations poorly prepared and I feel we are once again rushing into an election that has a huge chance of fucking things up.

At this point, arguing the legitamcy of going into Iraq is way beyond moot, so whatever. However, At some point the leadership must begin to handle things in a smarter way. What is it going to take for someone to speak up and say that Iraq as a whole can't be one country, and it needs to be divided into 3?

[Useruser666]

Does be-gruding me personally, or challenging my patriotism make you feel like your shallow arguments carry more weight or somehow help legitimize your fringe opinions? Because they don't. Someone once wrote that patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels. I think you should take that to heart because whenever you try do it, it makes you, not me appear to be the extremist.

This post wasn't sinister, it was simply intented to help readers empathise with, despite our ground troops best efforts, why we are continously losing the war of hearts and minds of everyday Iraqis, and why insurgents now outnumber coalition troops. Something I think our MSM does a horrible job of conveying on a day-to-day basis.

I don't write here just because I have some egotistical need to be heard. I write here with the hope that my views help to represent the views of those who can't write here, the 100,000 dead and maimed Iraqi civilians, the views of several World bodies, including the U.N. and NATO, the views of the
Pope and the Vatican, and the views of 48%, 58+ million Americans who stood up on November 2nd and said no more war for oil Mr. Bush, no more war for oil.

Who said I was a patriot? Who said I was for the war? I have fringe opinions? PLEASE!!! You take up the MOST remote and isolated views and champion them no matter how little evidence there is to support it. You make statements that you believe to be fact but are NOTHING but OPINION! These facts you represent here are almost ALWAYS standing on the shoulders of half truths or total twisting of the facts. That's what you represent here. You represent the blind hatred of people with different views other than your own. For that reason your arguments are mostly pathetic. You take the opposite view not to be the champion of good, the less fortunate, or even the underdog, you take it because it's what you believe to be the anti-philosophy of whatever or whomever it is you make out to be such an enemy to you.

I do not put people down for challenging authority. I do it on a daily basis. You are not challenging authority, you just like to stir shit up for your own pleasure. You are a caricature of a Liberal/Democrat and while that is amusing at first it gets old really fast. I am neither Republican, nor Democrat so when I hear these being thrown around as insults I find it pretty damn funny. There are others in this forum that almost mirror you, but you take the cake. You could almost be a WWE wrestler (no offense Whottt!) named something like "El Politico" or something along those lines. You make your speal over and over again in this board like that wrestler who travels from arena to arena. You argue endlessly until everyone just stops caring. That's a tough thing to do around here, yet you some how manage.

I would like to point out two things in your response that demonstrate exactly what I mean when I say you twist things to suite your own agenda.

Pope and the Vatican

So now you say you represent the Pope and the Vatican on this board? Holy shit!!! You bash anything and everything religious and then proclaim yourself the champion of the highest seat of power in the Chatholic Church here on earth? You mock Bush for his religious beliefs and how they may influence his decisions and then you dare to make a statement like this? Why not just represent God Dan? Who can going to argue with, "God told me so!"? I'd take that as a more credible source than a Chineese news agency or michaelmore.com.


and the views of 48%, 58+ million Americans who stood up on November 2nd and said no more war for oil Mr. Bush, no more war for oil.

The event you describe never happened. There was not a vote on whether the US should invade Iraq. The election was for president of the United States. 48% of the people did not vote no against the war, they voted for John Kerry. Maybe you're right and there was voter fraud. I sure didn't see a yes/no selection about going to war. It must be rigged!

I respect people who bring arguments and points up that can be atleast partially based on facts or even backed up by opinions that are well thought out and concise. You have proven not be one of those people. I have written this all not to put you down as a person, but to critisize what you bring here.

[MannyIsGod]

Chris, you can't make that damn hook, but nice post.

[Useruser666]

However, give me situations where the US has made beneficial moves in this manner in the past 50 years. What are you basing your optimism on?

How about the Soviet Union and the fall of comunism? Take a look at Afghanistan and use that as a progress indicator for Iraq in a years time.



Is there really an accountability to it's people? The vast majority of the people in this country can't tell you what's going in with the countries actions and don't know very much about the history of what it has done and what it does.

I think more and more people are aware now than ever before of world events. The growth of the internet and the huge influx of sources of information has brought the whole world into our living rooms. The tiniest whisper can grow to the roar of a waterfall in minutes now. Never before can so many question so indepthly our leaders and their actions. Technology gives everyone a voice.

I think if we, the US, sees our actions through, great and wonderful things will come of them. We can only fail if we give up.

[Useruser666]

Chris, you can't make that damn hook, but nice post.

I can only make those over you. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

And Chris, how many times did we go to war with the USSR? The 2 wars we did engage in at that time ended in a stalemate (although I think that's because of stupid leadership, North Korea should never have existed) and a flat out loss.

Then we have other situations where we screwed the pooch, IE Cuba, Indonesia, and Iran.

No, the cold war wasn't fought in the same way as we are fighting the war on terror, you can't compare the 2.

[Useruser666]

And Chris, how many times did we go to war with the USSR? The 2 wars we did engage in at that time ended in a stalemate (although I think that's because of stupid leadership, North Korea should never have existed) and a flat out loss.

Then we have other situations where we screwed the pooch, IE Cuba, Indonesia, and Iran.

No, the cold war wasn't fought in the same way as we are fighting the war on terror, you can't compare the 2.

It wasn't fought the same way, that's true. But every battle is different, some may not require a single shot. In WWII we used nuclear weapons, that would not be appropriate here of course. There are mistakes to be made, but I think we are learning well at present.

[MannyIsGod]

The whole point of that part of my post was to find simmilar actions in the past 50 years of the US in order to justify Whotttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt's optomistic views.

[Useruser666]

The whole point of that part of my post was to find simmilar actions in the past 50 years of the US in order to justify Whotttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt's optomistic views.

Afghanistan

Serbia

I'm optimistic just because it looks like we're following through with our actions and not bailing out.

[MannyIsGod]

uh, Afghanistan is far from successfull.

Serbia? We didn't go in and install an entire new governmentin Serbia, not to mention all Balkan action was done with MUCH international help.

Try again?

If by following through you mean rushing forward and doing things foolishly, then I agree with you. However, I don't think that's a reason for optimism.

[Useruser666]

uh, Afghanistan is far from successfull.

Serbia? We didn't go in and install an entire new governmentin Serbia, not to mention all Balkan action was done with MUCH international help.

Try again?

If by following through you mean rushing forward and doing things foolishly, then I agree with you. However, I don't think that's a reason for optimism.

I understand you wanting to relate current events with past successes, but as I mention earlier, different situations call for different solutions. Maybe we did rush ahead too quickly. I don't have as great a world knowledge as the people who made the decision to go in.

My optimism is that we seem to be moving forward and although we face many difficult choices, we won't abandone our path because it's a tough road.

[2centsworth]

The Iraq War isn't about Israel per Se, it's about oil, it's distribution, and proping up the weak dollar against the Euro and other foreign currencies while piliging the resources of other countries - Imperialism 21st century style.


Oil has tripled since the war, and the dollar is much weaker. Your argument makes sense if you're backwards.

[Useruser666]

Oil has tripled since the war, and the dollar is much weaker. Your argument makes sense if you're backwards.

BINGO!

[whottt]

To use your logic in this, you can't say it will succeed because there has never been an undertaking like this on our part in the middle east.

That's true, I can't...what I can do however is look at what has occurred in our last few major declared wars and see that the odds are that we will suceed by establishing Democracy.




The problem is that the United States does have a history of aserting it's power to bring about change in countries. It has not always worked out in beneficial ways for everyone involved. There is cynicism that is based upon the US's history of creating problems in situations like this instead of solving them.

You know when it hasn't worked out? When we have tried more peaceful methods, like covertly supporting opposition within countries, or tryng to encourage Democratic change with financial incentive. And also when we gave up on trying to win a war because of heavy opposition back here in the US.

Pretty much when we have gone to war with someone and won the war we have a good record of success in achieving lasting peace with that country, and improving the quality of that country.




However, give me situations where the US has made beneficial moves in this manner in the past 50 years. What are you basing your optimism on?


How many US supported Democracies have failed?

At the risk of sounding like W...Democracy works better than anything else. Democracy, when it is truly given a chanced to succeed, doesn't fail often.



Is there really an accountability to it's people? The vast majority of the people in this country can't tell you what's going in with the countries actions and don't know very much about the history of what it has done and what it does.

Yes, we have a non-violent political revolutions every 4 years, and constant on-going referendums on our leadership. We call them Democratic elections.


No, there is very little accountability when the leaders of this country spin everything in their favor.

Everyone spins...




When we spend the money and make an effort (like we are doing now in Iraq), we can stablize situations. It is important to remember however, that in Iraq money may not be enough because of the 3 sects in place there. At this point, I'm crossing my fingers that the elections go as well as possible, but I honestly don't expect things to work out.

Well if it doesn't work at least we tried...the fact that we are going through all this effort to establish a true Democracy should be indicative to you that our motives are fairly noble. And as modern history history shows, legitimate Democracy usually succeeds when given a fair chance, no matter the culture or reigon of the world...And I believe our intentions are as good as they get when you are talking about a relationship between two national bodies. I mean we could have just appointed a despot ruler of our chosing, made him rich, and taken the oil.







At this point, arguing the legitamcy of going into Iraq is way beyond moot, so whatever. However, At some point the leadership must begin to handle things in a smarter way. What is it going to take for someone to speak up and say that Iraq as a whole can't be one country, and it needs to be divided into 3?

I won't argue the legitimacy of going into Iraq, but I will argue that it is a legitimate strategy for combating terrorism borne out of the mid-east. If they split, so be it, won't bother me, it'll be their choice and at least they had their chance to join the 21st century.

The truth of life is, societies and cultures, and organisms that don't adapt to their environment, become extinct. The educational system, the technological advancement, the quality of life, the poor condition of these things in mid-eastern countries, have put nearly their entire culture on the verge of cultural extinction.

If America and the West had the mindset it had even as recently as 200 years ago, with the technological edge it now holds, the mid-eastern cultures would be nearly extinct. They are getting their chance to join the 21st century now, and they will either learn to live together, or they will continue to destroy each other, and eventually become extinct.