The Best Shot-Blocking Team in the NBA...

[Jeremy]

...is the Phoenix Suns.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable2.html?cnf=1&prd=1

Discuss.

[dallaskd]

Nuggets. Camby, Nene, K-mart, and Melo.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

:lol

[Xylus]

The Suns have been blocking up a storm lately.

Amare Stoudemire's defense hasn't drastically improved, but his shot-blocking has.

[BillsCarnage]

...is the Phoenix Suns.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable2.html?cnf=1&prd=1

Discuss.

This isn't new. The Suns and Denver have been 1 or 2 most of the season



The Suns have been blocking up a storm lately.

Amare Stoudemire's defense hasn't drastically improved, but his shot-blocking has.

It hasn't but he has got much better at blocking and not committing the foul.

[Tippecanoe]

faster pace leads to more possessions??

[endrity]

Blocks don't neccesarily mean good defense. It means those guys go for a lot of fakes and pumps and don't play good fundamental d. If you wanna throw stats out, I would be worried about being dead last in rebounding differential. When has a team ever won by being so attrocious. You were already bad last year, Utah killed you guys in every meeting during the season, but this year it's even worse. Al Jefferson by himself has beaten you twice simply by hitting the boards. I honestly have no idea how you survive a series with a team that has a dominating frontline. Spurs, NO, Utah, Lakers all would be favourites against you. And if Dampier plays anything like he has during this year that he is healthy add Dallas to the teams that you would have no chance with. I am not even trying to trash talk. I still can't understand the K.Thomas move. You barely had a chance with him and then you decide to send him away???? I don't know how D'Antoni deals with this problem this year. You just have no personnel to do anything about it. I personally think that the Suns FO has made up their mind that this team has gone as far as it can, how else do you explain them being so reluctant to make any moves to improve the current team, and will probably make changes in the summer. They probably want to see a couple more things in the playoffs. Clearely you can't build around a 34 year old Nash, but can you around a hothead like Stat? Is Diaw worth keeping, or do you just try to clear cash and you send him out on a package with Marion? Do you try to build a grind out team with Raja, Barbosa, and Stat and bring in a real center and some other tough guys and maybe a Rick Carlisle kind of coach? It's clear stat does not want or is able to play center.

[lefty]

Blocks don't neccesarily mean good defense. It means those guys go for a lot of fakes and pumps and don't play good fundamental d. If you wanna throw stats out, I would be worried about being dead last in rebounding differential. When has a team ever won by being so attrocious. You were already bad last year, Utah killed you guys in every meeting during the season, but this year it's even worse. Al Jefferson by himself has beaten you twice simply by hitting the boards. I honestly have no idea how you survive a series with a team that has a dominating frontline. Spurs, NO, Utah, Lakers all would be favourites against you. And if Dampier plays anything like he has during this year that he is healthy add Dallas to the teams that you would have no chance with. I am not even trying to trash talk. I still can't understand the K.Thomas move. You barely had a chance with him and then you decide to send him away???? I don't know how D'Antoni deals with this problem this year. You just have no personnel to do anything about it. I personally think that the Suns FO has made up their mind that this team has gone as far as it can, how else do you explain them being so reluctant to make any moves to improve the current team, and will probably make changes in the summer. They probably want to see a couple more things in the playoffs. Clearely you can't build around a 34 year old Nash, but can you around a hothead like Stat? Is Diaw worth keeping, or do you just try to clear cash and you send him out on a package with Marion? Do you try to build a grind out team with Raja, Barbosa, and Stat and bring in a real center and some other tough guys and maybe a Rick Carlisle kind of coach? It's clear stat does not want or is able to play center.


That was chapter 1 of Endrity's book

[Armando]

Another example of why stats can be misleading.

[endrity]

That was chapter 1 of Endrity's book
hope you read it, i put some good effort on it.
the rest of it you can find it at dallas-mavs.com, but it's all mavs analysis. I think you wouldn't care that much. Gotta target the audience

[lefty]

hope you read it, i put some good effort on it.
the rest of it you can find it at dallas-mavs.com, but it's all mavs analysis. I think you wouldn't care that much. Gotta target the audience

Actually, your post is interesting

[Jeremy]

Blocks don't neccesarily mean good defense. It means those guys go for a lot of fakes and pumps and don't play good fundamental d. If you wanna throw stats out, I would be worried about being dead last in rebounding differential.

I am worried about it. Dead last is not good--to state the obvious. Heh.


When has a team ever won by being so attrocious. You were already bad last year, Utah killed you guys in every meeting during the season, but this year it's even worse.

Actually, we blew out Utah in the last meeting of the season last year, and we beat them in the only meeting so far this season.

[JMarkJohns]

faster pace leads to more possessions??

I think Tip has got it. Both Phoenix and Denver play up-tempo styles. Now, you still have to have the players to do that, but I'd be interested in a per-100 possession average who's #1 and how far the Suns and Nuggets fall.

Suns would likely be a top-10 team, but probably no better than 6th or 7th while the Nuggets could possibly be a top-5 team.

[stretch]

...is the Phoenix Suns.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable2.html?cnf=1&prd=1

Discuss.
So?

They are also the worst rebounding team in the league and give up nearly 104 ppg.

[sribb43]

So what, the Nuggets are the best stealing team in the league....what does that =, being one of the worst defensive teams in the leagues. Look at PPG and opp FG% that is a sign of a good defensive team, not blocks/steals

[Xylus]

PPG will tell you nothing, because like we've already said... a faster-paced team will allow their opponent more possessions, a.k.a. more opportunities to score.

For me, the two stats you want to look at are Opponent's FG% and Points Per 100 Possessions. These will tell you a lot about how often a team allows the other to score.

I think the Suns are in the middle of the pack in both of these categories, which doesn't surprise me in the least. They've always been a middle-of-the-road defensive team, not great, not bad.

[monosylab1k]

LOL Sun Fan will desperately spin the numbers in any way possible in order to convince themselves that their team's defense isn't total shit.

[stretch]

PPG will tell you nothing, because like we've already said... a faster-paced team will allow their opponent more possessions, a.k.a. more opportunities to score.
Defense is limiting your opponents chances at scoring. If they have more chances to score because the Suns play a fast pace, then their offense is contributing to poorer defense. Notice that all the best defensive teams are capable of slowing the game down and scoring in half-court sets.

[Xylus]

Defense is limiting your opponents chances at scoring. If they have more chances to score because the Suns play a fast pace, then their offense is contributing to poorer defense. Notice that all the best defensive teams are capable of slowing the game down and scoring in half-court sets.
So you're basically saying that Fast Tempo = Bad Defense? WTF, Stretch

[monosylab1k]

So you're basically saying that Fast Tempo = Bad Defense? WTF, Stretch
no, fast tempo = more energy expended on offense = less energy & attention to defense = bad defense.

[Xylus]

no, fast tempo = more energy expended on offense = less energy & attention to defense = bad defense.
I've seen enough games to know that this isn't and never will be the case. The Suns tend to play their best defense in the 2nd half, when they would theoretically be more tired from all that running and gunning. Their fast tempo has nothing to do with their determination on defense.

[monosylab1k]

I've seen enough games to know that this isn't and never will be the case. The Suns tend to play their best defense in the 2nd half, when they would theoretically be more tired from all that running and gunning. Their fast tempo has nothing to do with their determination on defense.
if you say so, but here's another theory - other teams who get into a running game with Phoenix fall into the same trap of "all offense, no defense", but since they aren't used to a running game & don't have as talented of personnel, their offense falters in the 2nd half as they get winded.

and then teams that will dictate things instead of allowing the Suns to dictate (like the Spurs) can take advantage of the Suns lack of attention to defense.

[Jeremy]

I was not trying to say that this means the Suns are a good defensive team.

I was just trying to say that it means they are a good shot-blocking team. Most people don't think of them as a good shot-blocking team, since they are considered "small."

That's all.

[Xylus]

if you say so, but here's another theory - other teams who get into a running game with Phoenix fall into the same trap of "all offense, no defense", but since they aren't used to a running game & don't have as talented of personnel, their offense falters in the 2nd half as they get winded.

and then teams that will dictate things instead of allowing the Suns to dictate (like the Spurs) can take advantage of the Suns lack of attention to defense.
I'm sure there is some level of exhaustion that comes into play in the 2nd half for Suns' opponents, but how do you determine the difference between really good defense and tired legs?

Even if you are correct, the Suns are fully capable of handling teams in a half-court set, as well. The Spurs tend to beat us in the half-court because Tim Duncan is virtually unstoppable down low, but I think they're the only team that really poses a huge problem in a slower tempo.

[stretch]

So you're basically saying that Fast Tempo = Bad Defense? WTF, Stretch
Yes, there is definitely some truth to that, kinda like high powered scoring = good defense, much like Mono touched on. when other teams that dont know how to slow the game down, or take advantage of their defensive issues, they end up getting sucked into a run-and-gun game with the Suns, leading to a lot of bad shots and blown opportunities. it will not work against teams that have the ability to score efficiently like Phoenix, but also slow the game down, and take advantage of Phoenix's defensive weaknesses. They blow out a lot of crappy teams, but then end up losing to good teams like San Antonio, LA, and Dallas.

[BillsCarnage]

if you say so, but here's another theory - other teams who get into a running game with Phoenix fall into the same trap of "all offense, no defense", but since they aren't used to a running game & don't have as talented of personnel, their offense falters in the 2nd half as they get winded.

and then teams that will dictate things instead of allowing the Suns to dictate (like the Spurs) can take advantage of the Suns lack of attention to defense.

This theory is BULLSHIT anymore. The Suns have been running this style for four(4) years now and the league knows damn well how they're going to play. And, lets not forget that more teams are adopting their style of play then there were 4yrs ago.

You can toss out all of the defensive stats because good defense comes when you need to shut an opponent down at certain points of the game - a lot of times at the end. Several teams excel at this and others struggle.

Where was the Spurs vaunted defense in the first game w/ the Suns in the PO's where the won 111-106 or gm 6 114-106?

Had the Suns won like that everyone would say the Suns' D would suck..

Where was the Spurs vaunted defense when the Hornets made them bleed teal and puke brown out the anus a few days ago??

[stretch]

Where was the Spurs vaunted defense in the first game w/ the Suns in the PO's where the won 117-112, or something like that???

With that logic, then how do you explain teams that are infinitely superior to others, but still periodically lose to them? All teams are periodically going to have bad nights, or the other team simply has a great night. But in a best of 7 game series, the team that is supposed to win, wins. The 96 Bulls are arguably the greatest team of all time, but even they lost a few games. All teams lose a couple here and there, but the best team pretty much always ends up on top in the end. The Suns have never been there.

[monosylab1k]

Where was the Spurs vaunted defense in the first game w/ the Suns in the PO's where the won 111-106 or gm 6 114-106?
Where was the Suns vaunted offense & supposedly "good" defense when they, uh, LOST THE FUCKING SERIES?

There's a reason why the Suns can't beat the Spurs in a series, and why this current team haven't been, and won't ever be, in the Finals.

Delude yourself into thinking your team plays good defense, Sun Fan. It's as stupid and comical as the Dallas fans who think the Mavs aren't chokers.

[sribb43]

So you're basically saying that Fast Tempo = Bad Defense? WTF, Stretch


well if you look at the stats most of the high scoring teams are regarded as poor defensive teams, jazz, Warriors, PHX, Denver.

[BillsCarnage]

Where was the Suns vaunted offense & supposedly "good" defense when they, uh, LOST THE FUCKING SERIES?

I guess the same place that the Mav's has been the last two PO series.. :lmao


There's a reason why the Suns can't beat the Spurs in a series, and why this current team haven't been, and won't ever be, in the Finals.

Delude yourself into thinking your team plays good defense, Sun Fan.

I've never claimed they play "great" or even good defense. But, they have stepped it up, at times, to win games at the end.


It's as stupid and comical as the Dallas fans who think the Mavs aren't chokers.

Sans you of course??

[BillsCarnage]

With that logic, then how do you explain teams that are infinitely superior to others, but still periodically lose to them? All teams are periodically going to have bad nights, or the other team simply has a great night. But in a best of 7 game series, the team that is supposed to win, wins. The 96 Bulls are arguably the greatest team of all time, but even they lost a few games. All teams lose a couple here and there, but the best team pretty much always ends up on top in the end. The Suns have never been there.

How long did it take you to figure that one out??

BTW, Neither have the Mavs, so what's your point?

[stretch]

I guess the same place that the Mav's has been the last two PO series.. :lmao

So you think its funny when your team loses in the playoffs?


I've never claimed they play "great" or even good defense. But, they have stepped it up, at times, to win games at the end.

Against shitty teams.

[da_suns_fan]

Where was the Suns vaunted offense & supposedly "good" defense when they, uh, LOST THE FUCKING SERIES?


Suspended.

http://media.bonnint.net/az/2/239/23928.jpg

[stretch]

Suspended.
STFU

Mavericks had suspensions in their series against SA too, and they still came out and handled their business in game 7.

[sribb43]

STFU

Mavericks had suspensions in their series against SA too, and they still came out and handled their business in game 7.


:owned

[DazedAndConfused]

Guys please. Stop the fighting. Everyone knows the Mavs and Suns are both pathetic excuses for a franchise. We're all laughing at you, not with you.

[stretch]

Guys please. Stop the fighting. Everyone knows the Mavs and Suns are both pathetic excuses for a franchise. We're all laughing at you, not with you.
Hello Jeff.

[sribb43]

Guys please. Stop the fighting. Everyone knows the Mavs and Suns are both pathetic excuses for a franchise. We're all laughing at you, not with you.


yes yes we know...we have 0 rings and you guys have 30+ or whatever the number is

[JMarkJohns]

The Suns weakness is painfully obvious to anyone willing to watch their games. They are a terrible rebounding team and give up dozens of point-blank second/third scoring opportunities a game. if they could cut tat in half, their defensive PPG total would drop by 4/5 ppg, and their defensive FG% would drop by 2/3%. Of course, this would require them to acquire a legit box-out rebounder. Preferably one 6-11 or taller and 250 pounds or heavier. This would also go a long way in their low-post, on-ball defense, their other main defensive weakness.

You see, to make up for their lack of a legit low-post, on-ball defender, the Suns resort to a double and triple-teaming swarm defense. This ensures rushed shots a good portion of the time, but also ensures that they are constantly out of position for defensive rebounds. In their haste to make the next rotation, they fail to body up and allow for opposing centers and forwards to get easy put backs. Even on longer rebounds they tend to be out of position, which is how the Hawks tore them apart.

if they could play man-to-man post defense, this would allow them to maximize their defensive position on the boards. Playing Marion and Amare off the main low-post offensive player would only better their shot blocks and should allow for more productive defensive possessions.

It's really an easy fix. All it would require is Sarver to spend a little money, D'Antoni to slow the tempo just a bit and the Suns would be in prime position.

However, as Suns fans know, those two conditions aren't likely to be met anytime soon.

In fact, D'Antoni asked Kerr to hold off on a potential deal tat could have net the Suns Camby. This, according to reports.

If the Suns could run Camby out at C and Amare out at PF, then I'd say their frontline on-ball defense, rebounding and rotational shotblocking would be greatly improved.

I have no idea what the Suns would have to give up to net Camby, but they do have a large enough trade exception to simply take him off the Nuggets 80 million payroll, so long as the pick compensation was met with the Nuggets' approval. Starting with the Atlanta 1st they get this year and maybe a future 1st and the rights to Milos Vujanic?

If Denver is looking to cut cost, then it would be a great way to save a ton immediately, and net a few picks for your trouble.

[BillsCarnage]

So you think its funny when your team loses in the playoffs?

At least I can laugh about it butt monkey.

BTW, you got past SA and how did that fare for you since?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Who is everyone rooting for tonight? (excluding suns/spurs fans of course)

[crc21209]

Who gives a fuck?

[ShoogarBear]

Blocks and steals are the two most overrated stats in the NBA.

[MajorMike]

Quite simple, actually. When the Suns finish so fast on the offensive end, there are more offensive possessions for the opponent. Therefore, more of an opportunity for a block. The same logic holds for rebounds. Look at opponents rebounds - at the top of the list of teams that give up the most rebounds are the teams that shoot the most and use the least amount of shot clock - GS, Phx, Denver, Indy, Memphis, LA - all score over 100 and their opponents score over 100 as well. More shots means more chance for a block and more rebound opportunities. Again, simple math.

I would say you need to look at points allowed vs blocks. This is a better indicator of the fact you grind out on D and hold the team down without letting them run all over you because you just got done with a possession. Currently, Houston would be 5th in pts allowed and 4th in blocks while Detroit is 2nd in pts allowed and 10th in blocks.

Having a large amount of blocks in no way automatically equates to playing good defense.

[Jeremy]

In fact, D'Antoni asked Kerr to hold off on a potential deal tat could have net the Suns Camby. This, according to reports.

Whoa, what reports? Where? I never saw anything, but I've wanted them to get Camby for awhile now. Barbosa, Diaw, whatever it takes...maybe we'd even be better off trading Marion for Camby.

I wonder if the Nuggets would even be willing to trade him now, though, the way he's been playing for them.

[JMarkJohns]

Whoa, what reports? Where? I never saw anything, but I've wanted them to get Camby for awhile now. Barbosa, Diaw, whatever it takes...maybe we'd even be better off trading Marion for Camby.

I wonder if the Nuggets would even be willing to trade him now, though, the way he's been playing for them.

It was from SportingNews.com...

No wonder D'Antoni says he still believes in his group. Kerr recently was considering a major move -- a league source says the Suns were asking around about the Nuggets' Marcus Camby -- but D'Antoni told him to hold off.

"We have one of the best records in the league, so why would we want to change anything?" says D'Antoni, calling the Suns "an unbelievable offensive team that's trying to get better on defense.

Again, This probably didn't get far, but the Suns have pieces to make a move like this whether it be instant CAP relief in the form of a trade exception, a quality, potential lottery pick in Atlanta's 1st or some young players like Barbosa and Diaw.

Had D'Antoni not put a hold on talks, I think there was a lot more to this story.

[td4mvp21]

STFU

Mavericks had suspensions in their series against SA too, and they still came out and handled their business in game 7.

:tu