Trade for Ron Artest Right Now

[Ghost Writer]

The Kings are shopping him to the Nuggets.

Enough already.


Get it done.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Who do you suppose they trade?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2148397&postcount=63

[Ghost Writer]

Trade them anyone not named Duncan, Parker or Ginobilli.

[Dex]

Do we suddenly have pieces to move that we didn't yesterday?

[T Park]

Do the Spurs have anything the Kings want?

No?

end of thread.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Do we suddenly have pieces to move that we didn't yesterday?

[exstatic]

Mr. Big Box store employee discount? Mr. (about to be) dumped by three teams because he's flat out fucking crazy?

:lol:rollin

[TDMVPDPOY]

seriously the kings were doing quite good without bibby and miller, their season reminded me of the season when webber was out and they were beating teams left/right and centre, untill he came back and ended pejas good run of games...

if they rebuild, get watever you can out of bibby and miller

artest you can probably get alot in return if traded.....

[BonnerDynasty]

Only one world renowned rapper per team please.

[Man of Steel]

Jv

[baseline bum]

I'm guessing Casper didn't see the way he single-handedly destroyed the Pacers franchise in a year where they looked like the title favorites.

[FromWayDowntown]

Rodman Redux!!

[BonnerDynasty]

On second thought...

We could probably use this guy when we play in PHX during the playoffs.

[exstatic]

I'm guessing Casper didn't see the way he single-handedly destroyed the Pacers franchise in a year where they looked like the title favorites.
Probably not. Anyone who advocates Artest just doesn't have the first fucking clue as to why SA wins titles. I don't think there has been one season of the four championships that we had the most talent. The Spurs win because they are a tight, disciplined, cohesive unit. Artest is SuperGlue remover. He's acetone. He's a loose fucking cannon that can never fit into a system.

[AFBlue]

What are the Nuggs offering?

Can the Spurs put up a package anywhere near that?

If they're offering JR Smith and the expiring contract of Najera then the Spurs might be able to hang. If they're offering Nene for Artest plus fillers, the Spurs don't have anything close to matching that.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What are the Nuggs offering?

Can the Spurs put up a package anywhere near that?

If they're offering JR Smith and the expiring contract of Najera then the Spurs might be able to hang. If they're offering Nene for Artest plus fillers, the Spurs don't have anything close to matching that.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2216302&postcount=386

[duncan228]

Anyone who advocates Artest just doesn't have the first fucking clue as to why SA wins titles. I don't think there has been one season of the four championships that we had the most talent. The Spurs win because they are a tight, disciplined, cohesive unit. Artest is SuperGlue remover. He's acetone. He's a loose fucking cannon that can never fit into a system.

Artest would never fit in this locker room.
Pop wouldn't tolerate it.
Duncan wouldn't tolerate it.

Artest can play, I even like his defense.
But there's no way I'd want to see him as a Spur.
The risk is too great, he's a basket case. A dangerous basket case.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Artest would never fit in this locker room.
Pop wouldn't tolerate it.
Duncan wouldn't tolerate it.

Artest can play, I even like his defense.
But there's no way I'd want to see him as a Spur.
The risk is too great, he's a basket case. A dangerous basket case.

but td is a pimp

he put artest in his seat

ron artest is the solution to small ball

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

but td is a pimp

he put artest in his seat

ron artest is the solution to small ball
And since when is Artest that easy to control?

[BonnerDynasty]

T-Dunks would have to come out and put this guy in his place.




Or start the next super-duo in the hip-hop industry.

[duncan228]

but td is a pimp

he put artest in his seat

ron artest is the solution to small ball

I do think that any player that comes into this locker room has to come with the understanding that it's Duncan's team and there's a certain character that they must possess to succeed as a Spur.

Can Duncan wield enough influence over a guy like Artest? Does Artest want to win bad enough, play with the best player in the league bad enough, to change his stripes?

I don't know.

I've always said the FO knows more than any of us, they've got the hardware to prove that. If they brought Artest in I'd respect it. But I'd have to see Artest change his stripes to believe it.

[duncan228]

By the way Ghost Writer-

You weren't around for a while, I read you've been busy with your family.
It's nice to have you back. You certainly can stir things up around here.
I mean that in a good way. Whether people agree or disagree with you, your takes get people talking. That's always a good thing on a message board. Welcome back.

[El_Mago]

I'm down with Artest.

I am in firm belief the Spurs need to make a move NOW.

They still have a good shot if they don't, but it won't surprise me if they don't win it all.

[tav1]

Artest is like a hotty with crabs. She looks good, but she's all poison. I'd rather take back a bad contract on a decent player than take back Artest and his mountain of baggage. Too risky.

[Obstructed_View]

I'd rather have Beno back.

[himat]

Do we suddenly have pieces to move that we didn't yesterday?

Just look at yesterday's trade and you will realize how any trade can happen.

[porscha]

Trade them anyone not named Duncan, Parker or Ginobilli.
sad to say but beside those 3 above, rest of them did not worth much :lol

[AFBlue]

Just look at yesterday's trade and you will realize how any trade can happen.

Yes, but it won't. Spurs aren't prone to making big, reactive decisions. They'll most likely make a trade because they're over the lux tax threshold as of now, but there's a FAR better chance that it will be a strict salary-cutting move than a move that improves the team...though those two are not mutually exclusive.

Ideally, the Spurs move a player for less salary and get back a player that can make a potential impact....but again, the priority in any trade will be to cut salary, IMO.

[porscha]

Spurs FO just too cheap.. and even worse is they are proud of being cheap :dizzy :dizzy

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Spurs FO just too cheap.. and even worse is they are proud of being cheap :dizzy :dizzy
I'd be happy too if I can win championships and be a cheapskate at the same time.

[WalterBenitez]

I'd rather have Beno back. Me too

[Ghost Writer]

duncan228, it's a pleasure to be back. Thanks.


Look, we all know the risk that omes with Artest, but sometimes you need to gamble a little when you don't have a lot of options.

Maybe the Kings will take some future picks and our expiring contracts?

I bet Pop and Co. could control Artest.


Spurs need to keep up with the Joneses.

[exstatic]

Spurs FO just too cheap.. and even worse is they are proud of being cheap :dizzy :dizzy
They're probably in the bottom three NBA markets, yet they are in the top 10 in payroll. That's right, the top 10. Come with facts next time. You only look stupid when you don't.

[exstatic]

duncan228, it's a pleasure to be back. Thanks.


Look, we all know the risk that omes with Artest, but sometimes you need to gamble a little when you don't have a lot of options.

Maybe the Kings will take some future picks and our expiring contracts?

I bet Pop and Co. could control Artest.


Spurs need to keep up with the Joneses.
Only chemicals can control Ron Artest.

It's like the Chris Rock bit about "going tiger". Tiger's don't go crazy and attack people, they go tiger, and do what tigers do. Ron would just be "going Artest". It's what he does. It doesn't matter what locker room he's in, or what team he's on.

[Admiral]

Artest in a Spurs uniform?!? Didn't we learn anything from the Dennis Rodman fiasco years ago?

[exstatic]

Artest in a Spurs uniform?!? Didn't we learn anything from the Dennis Rodman fiasco years ago?
The fans apparently haven't, but I'll bet Pop has. :smokin

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Only chemicals can control Ron Artest.

It's like the Chris Rock bit about "going tiger". Tiger's don't go crazy and attack people, they go tiger, and do what tigers do. Ron would just be "going Artest". It's what he does. It doesn't matter what locker room he's in, or what team he's on.

Exactly! I'm glad someone else understands mental illness when they see it.

Artest would be a disaster.

[Cherry]

"I'm going to continue playing hard and out of control, like a wild animal that needs to be caged in. I'll let the referees handle it."

Oh yeah, we need this guy... :rolleyes

[ambchang]

Let Nuggets have Artest!
Artest, Thuglife, AI, JR Smith, Nene and 3-23 all on the same team! Just watching this team play would almost be as fun as to watch the Spurs win title #5.
Almost.

[MrChug]

I actually think Artest would WORK for the first time in my life...

[exstatic]

I actually think Artest would WORK for the first time in my life...
Dude. Ron Artest doesn't need guidance. He doesn't need a strong locker room. He needs fucking Thorazine. He is documentedly mentally ill.

[Obstructed_View]

Spurs need to keep up with the Joneses.
Dude, the Spurs ARE the fucking Joneses.

[duncan228]

Dude, the Spurs ARE the fucking Joneses.

Nice.

[remingtonbo2001]

The Drunk me says go for it!


I can't remember tje sober me right now, so I'm not sure what it would say.

[MrChug]

Dude. Ron Artest doesn't need guidance. He doesn't need a strong locker room. He needs fucking Thorazine. He is documentedly mentally ill.

Not a bad take, but he seems to have your textbook "daddy issues" and need for acceptance. Someone who plays as hard as he does for a team he's miserable on? WHAT IF THE THORAZINE WAS IN THE FORM OF Greg Popovich and Tim Duncan...a Dad and a brother?

I think it could work. It's a long shot, but I'd go all in on that bet.

[SenorSpur]

Artest is a ticking time bomb. Let him go and blow up someone else's team.

[wildbill2u]

The Kings are probably looking for help to shore up their frontcourt.

Nene at Denver is the probable most wanted choice, but Najera and someone might work for them.

I don't see any of our bigs that we could trade to them that would fit, given the salaries and their needs. Factor that in to his character/temperment issues and this is a 'no deal' situation

[ancestron]

Do we really want to see Ron fucking Artest win a championship ring with the Spurs???

[rascal]

I'm usually all for shaking up the roster with trades but I don't like Artest.

[baseline bum]

duncan228, it's a pleasure to be back. Thanks.


Look, we all know the risk that omes with Artest, but sometimes you need to gamble a little when you don't have a lot of options.

Maybe the Kings will take some future picks and our expiring contracts?

I bet Pop and Co. could control Artest.


Spurs need to keep up with the Joneses.

It's one thing to gamble sensibly... bringing a young guy like Stephen Jackson in when his old coach called him lazy on defense... trading for someone young with upside who has been a disappointment so far like Tyrus Thomas... taking on Mike Miller's contract because he can shoot the ball, and hoping his past playoff performance was an aberration since Bowen was guarding him.

Getting Artest is like taking all of your money to the roulette table and betting it on 30.

[hater]

Artest is already a has been. no thanks

[Ghost Writer]

Okay, first of all, Artest is in his prime and puts up numbers in every offensive and defensive category.

Secondly, if we somehow traded for him, he's a free agent at the end of the year, so if he did not work out, we could let him walk.

Indiana is ancient history.

[ChumpDumper]

He's still insane, but it wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. Depends on what the Kings would want in return.

[ChumpDumper]

Looking at it a little more closely, I believe the Kings are trying to use Artest to get some other ballast of of their books, namely Kenny Thomas. I wouldn't be terribly averse to taking on both if Artest wasn't a lock to opt out his contract at the end of the season, leaving us with only Thomas to show for the trade the next two years.

[Ghost Writer]

Looking at it a little more closely, I believe the Kings are trying to use Artest to get some other ballast of of their books, namely Kenny Thomas. I wouldn't be terribly averse to taking on both if Artest wasn't a lock to opt out his contract at the end of the season, leaving us with only Thomas to show for the trade the next two years.
Yeah, but couldn't you look to fill the Artest void with the usual cast offs next offseason?

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, but couldn't you look to fill the Artest void with the usual cast offs next offseason?It would be more difficult to do so with Thomas taking up so much salary.

If Artest would agree to taking his option for next season, I wouldn't mind sending all our expiring deals to get Artest/Thomas.

[Ghost Writer]

Yeah, man... I know he's old, but Thomas was a tenacious rebounder in his prime.

[tav1]

From what I've read, Petrie is driving a hard line on Artest. I think Artest would love to come to San Antonio (Artest would love to be anywhere that he can win), but I doubt the brass would even consider it. And I wouldn't take back Thomas.

[AFBlue]

Bump...

Chad Ford on trade possibilities for the Spurs. Not sure how plugged in he is to everyday NBA happenings, but it's interesting to note Artest is in the conversation...


San Antonio Spurs

The defending champs added a small piece to the puzzle a few weeks ago when they signed free agent Damon Stoudamire. But is he enough to power the Spurs back into the Finals? The Spurs still need depth at center, at small forward and in the backcourt, and they have roughly $15 million in expiring contracts to move in trades.

Believe it or not, Ron Artest's name has come up in San Antonio. Some believe that given the team's system, he can be controlled and would give them more toughness on the wing, where Bruce Bowen is slowing down. Bringing in Artest may sound far-fetched given the Spurs' emphasis on character and chemistry, but remember that Stephen Jackson was the starting shooting guard for one of the Spurs' recent title teams. If the need is powerful enough, San Antonio will do what it takes to win.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeTalk-080218

Personally, I think a move for Artest would reek of desperation, but if it honestly makes this team better right now, I think the Spurs should consider it.

[Ghost Writer]

Believe it or not, Ron Artest's name has come up in San Antonio. Some believe that given the team's system, he can be controlled and would give them more toughness on the wing, where Bruce Bowen is slowing down. Bringing in Artest may sound far-fetched given the Spurs' emphasis on character and chemistry, but remember that Stephen Jackson was the starting shooting guard for one of the Spurs' recent title teams. If the need is powerful enough, San Antonio will do what it takes to win. - Chad Ford


Gee... doesn't that sound familiar?

I think I've posted, um, everything that the Boston Sports Guy just said.

:hat

[exstatic]

Steven Jackson doesn't require medication.

God, I can't wait for 21 Feb to pass so we can get a rest from "Trade for Artest!!" until at least June.

[Ghost Writer]

ex, you require medication and we still believe in you.

The big Black boogie man is not gonna steal your popcorn way up in SEC 306.

Artest would do fine.

[baseline bum]

Believe it or not, Ron Artest's name has come up in San Antonio. Some believe that given the team's system, he can be controlled and would give them more toughness on the wing, where Bruce Bowen is slowing down. Bringing in Artest may sound far-fetched given the Spurs' emphasis on character and chemistry, but remember that Stephen Jackson was the starting shooting guard for one of the Spurs' recent title teams. If the need is powerful enough, San Antonio will do what it takes to win. - Chad Ford


Gee... doesn't that sound familiar?

I think I've posted, um, everything that the Boston Sports Guy just said.

:hat

Chad Ford isn't a very good source for basketball knowledge. He's the one who wrote about 100 Darko is better than LeBron articles a few summers ago.

[ChumpDumper]

I'd be fine with an Artest trade, but GMs like Wallace and Petrie are feeling butthurt about all the negative press they got after being raped in their recent big trades, so their egos are driving up the price of Miller and Artest.

[Ghost Writer]

I should trust you over Chad Ford?

[hsxvvd]

This looks like a thread started by Ghost VVriter.

[AFBlue]

Chad Ford isn't a very good source for basketball knowledge. He's the one who wrote about 100 Darko is better than LeBron articles a few summers ago.

Chad Ford is a draft guy, which is why I'm not sure if his "insider" information is credible.

But, calling him out for the Darko thing when it was over 4 years ago is pretty rediculous. He even said in a chat not too long ago that you could pretty much label Darko a bust at this point.

I'm not saying Darko is Lebron or anything close to that, but you also have to realize he's only 22 years old. I wouldn't count this kid out from being a productive player even now.

[baseline bum]

Chad Ford is a draft guy, which is why I'm not sure if his "insider" information is credible.

But, calling him out for the Darko thing when it was over 4 years ago is pretty rediculous. He even said in a chat not too long ago that you could pretty much label Darko a bust at this point.

I'm not saying Darko is Lebron or anything close to that, but you also have to realize he's only 22 years old. I wouldn't count this kid out from being a productive player even now.

How is it ridiculous? He literally wrote Darko>LeBron every day for a whole summer. Every single article that summer was about LeBron James, the greatest highschool player since Kareem, being a bunch of hype. How could anyone ever forget that?

[Ghost Writer]

What does him making a bold take 4 years ago have to do with him reporting that the Spurs might look at Artest?

[Allanon]

I think Artest has a bad rap. Sure he runs his mouth and says silly things but when he's on the court, he plays. But you guys have gotta be kididng me if you won't trade for him. The Lakers are rumored to be offering up Lamar Odom for Ron Artest, I don't think the Kings are helping the Lakers though.

And he's cheap too...he has Superstar like skills and he only costs 1/2 that much ($8 million). I can think of alot worse guys making more than $8 million.

Artest on the Spurs means you have Duncan to guard the paint and Artest to guard the perimeter. You might as well skip the WCF finals and bring on the Celtics/Spurs series.

[Evan]

I think Artest has a bad rap. Sure he runs his mouth and says silly things.

You don't think he does a little more than that? :blah

[Allanon]

Hi Evan

No not really. We all know about the Detroit brawl but really, what dastardly deeds has he done since then?

Heck even SJax is being heralded as the one that saved the Warriors season.

If the Nuggets,Lakers or Suns get Ron Artest, that's going to put the Spurs in a bad spot. With his $8 million salary, Ron Artest is very easy to move and you don't need to give up much if the Kings are having a fire sale. Look at what Atlanta gave up for Mike Bibby.

[Ghost Writer]

Amen, brotha.

I think we have the infrastructure in place to take the risk and can always let him walk at year's end.

[timmy21_4rings]

If Kings are trading Artest, it is going to be for GOOD players with long contracts. I do not think they are looking for expiring contracts. If they are looking for expiring contracts, they can pretty much keep Artest who wants to opt out once this season end.

So it is not going to be with Spurs..

[Ghost Writer]

... unless the expiring contracts they get are worth more than his $8 million off the books.

Or we include pick(s).

[AFBlue]

What does him making a bold take 4 years ago have to do with him reporting that the Spurs might look at Artest?

Maybe I got off track, but I think this was my point about Ford....

:tu

[clubalien]

Bump...

Chad Ford on trade possibilities for the Spurs. Not sure how plugged in he is to everyday NBA happenings, but it's interesting to note Artest is in the conversation...



http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeTalk-080218

Personally, I think a move for Artest would reek of desperation, but if it honestly makes this team better right now, I think the Spurs should consider it.

I don't know the credibility of this rumor, but everone that said the spurs would never consider ron artest ... you are so owned!

I had by doubts the spurs woudl want him, but he would be great playing for the spurs.

[Ghost Writer]

Hey, for more of a blood-letting, check out how Spurm tried saying that the Mavs' success came from their draft picks more than the moves they made in the "Jason Kidd risky" thread.

It ain't pretty.

[Spurminator]

You're obsessed with me now. I'm almost flattered.

[word]

Even though it isn't going to happen, it's so crazy it just might work.

[Ghost Writer]

You're obsessed with me now. I'm almost flattered.
I'm just stunned. I've never seen you persist with such an absurd take in the face of insurmountable facts to the contrary.

Everyone know the Spurs are successful because of the 2 #1 draft picks and the Mavs because they make moves.

Why argue that?



I assume you hate the idea of Artest, too.

[Spurminator]

I'm just stunned. I've never seen you persist with such an absurd take in the face of insurmountable facts to the contrary.

Everyone know the Spurs are successful because of the 2 #1 draft picks and the Mavs because they make moves.

Why argue that?



I assume you hate the idea of Artest, too.


Everyone knows the Mavs are successful because of a Lottery pick in 1998.

I'm indifferent about the Artest move... but I don't give a whole lot of thought to trades that have about a 0% chance of happening.

[exstatic]

Everyone knows the Mavs are successful because of a Lottery pick in 1998.
Not to mention a GREAT reach pick in 2003. Dirk and JHo, the draft day boys, are their All Stars. Everyone else on that team is replaceable.

[smeagol]

Everyone know the Spurs are successful because of the 2 #1 draft picks and the Mavs because they make moves.

Spurs' success is wrapped around four of TD's fingers.

Point me towards Mav's success, please?

[clubalien]

I hope there is more t the ron artest rumor then a newspaper reading this forum

[Ghost Writer]

You guys are dolts.

Only Howard was drafted by the Mavs.

Keep believing that the Mavs are as lucky as the Spurs. They create their luck, but swinging deals to get Dirk and Harris on draft day. Everyone else on the team was a trade or a free agent signing.

Everyone can't win the lottery.

Twice.


And if the Spurs get Artest and he pans out, you naysayers can stay the F' off the bandwagon.

We should not have let you on the Stephen Jackson one, either.


Haters.

[Holt's Cat]

Nowitzki was drafted at the Mavs' instruction.

[Holt's Cat]

Houston won the lottery twice and ended up with only 2 titles.

[smeagol]

Nowitzki was drafted at the Mavs' instruction.


Houston won the lottery twice and ended up with only 2 titles.

Now you are being mean . . . :lol

[Ghost Writer]

Yes and the Mavs then traded for Dirk on draft day.

That's called a "move."

The Mavs built their team around moves. This can't be disputed anymore.

Only two titles for the lucky Rockets? What a shame in the small break of the Jordan Era.

Thankfully the Spurs 2 lottery franchise players were spread out over a decade and hade more longevity that Ralph Sampson.

[Holt's Cat]

They told the Bucks who to draft. So you are wrong on that count.

The Rockets' two lottery picks came in the 90s?

Anyways, winning championships is about more than just ending up with a great lottery pick.

[anakha]

Since the subject of comparing the Mavericks' player transactions (trades, free agent signings, etc.) versus those of the Spurs was brought up...

Here are the player transactions of the Mavericks since January 14, 2000 (when Cuban became the owner):

http://www.n-c-systems.com/hoops/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=&Team=Mavericks&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&BeginYear=2000&BeginMonth=1&BeginDay=14&EndYear=2008&EndMonth=2&EndDay=19&submit=Search

And here are the transactions of the Spurs within the same time frame:

http://www.n-c-systems.com/hoops/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=&Team=Spurs&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&BeginYear=2000&BeginMonth=1&BeginDay=14&EndYear=2008&EndMonth=2&EndDay=19&submit=Search

Form your own conclusions from these.

[Ghost Writer]

Since the subject of comparing the Mavericks' player transactions (trades, free agent signings, etc.) versus those of the Spurs was brought up...

Here are the player transactions of the Mavericks since January 14, 2000 (when Cuban became the owner):

http://www.n-c-systems.com/hoops/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=&Team=Mavericks&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&BeginYear=2000&BeginMonth=1&BeginDay=14&EndYear=2008&EndMonth=2&EndDay=19&submit=Search

And here are the transactions of the Spurs within the same time frame:

http://www.n-c-systems.com/hoops/Search/SearchResults.php?Player=&Team=Spurs&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&BeginYear=2000&BeginMonth=1&BeginDay=14&EndYear=2008&EndMonth=2&EndDay=19&submit=Search

Form your own conclusions from these.
Case closed.

[Holt's Cat]

Spurs

http://hoopedia.nba.com/images/b/b0/Larry_obrien_championship.jpghttp://hoopedia.nba.com/images/b/b0/Larry_obrien_championship.jpghttp://hoopedia.nba.com/images/b/b0/Larry_obrien_championship.jpghttp://hoopedia.nba.com/images/b/b0/Larry_obrien_championship.jpg


Mavs

?

[Ghost Writer]

And that's because the Mavs didn't strike oil in the draft.

[Holt's Cat]

They did with Dirk.

[ChumpDumper]

And that's because the Mavs didn't strike oil in the draft.And that should be held against the Spurs because?

[FromWayDowntown]

Spurs should really try to be more like the Mavericks. Really.

I'm actually pissed that they aren't more like the Mavericks.

[FromWayDowntown]

The Bulls should really apologize for having garnered their successes through the draft.

[Holt's Cat]

The Bulls should really apologize for having garnered their successes through the draft.

And the Rockets.

[phxspurfan]

The Kings are shopping him to the Nuggets.

Enough already.


Get it done.

*rolls eyes*

[Ghost Writer]

And that should be held against the Spurs because?
You have tremendous fortune in the draft and do basically the bare minimum to improve the talent on the roster.

I shudder to think what it might be like to be a Spurs fan sans Robinson and Duncan.

What if they were ordinary #1 picks, even?

[ChumpDumper]

You have tremendous fortune in the draft and do basically the bare minimum to improve the talent on the roster.No, that was the pre-Duncan Spurs.

The Spurs were good and lucky enough to get their top three players through the draft and keep them together, and end up spending each year as much as can reasonably be expected of them, even a little more on occasion. It is not a bad thing.

Playing the "what if" game continues to be a useless exercise.

[FromWayDowntown]

What if they were ordinary #1 picks, even?

They weren't.

What if Michael Jordan had been some ordinary #3 pick, like Adam Morrison, Ben Gordon, Mike Dunleavy, Darius Miles, Raef LaFrentz, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Christian Laettner, Billy Owens, Chris Jackson, Charles Smith, Dennis Hopson, Chris Washburn, Benoit Benjamin, Rodney McCray, Bill Cartwright?

[Spurminator]

What if they were ordinary #1 picks, even?

They probably would have had more opportunities to draft in the Lottery or trade high picks.

The Mavs wouldn't have gotten Dirk if they'd had the #28 pick in the 1998 Draft (or Nash, for that matter.)

[Ghost Writer]

They weren't.

What if Michael Jordan had been some ordinary #3 pick, like Adam Morrison, Ben Gordon, Mike Dunleavy, Darius Miles, Raef LaFrentz, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Christian Laettner, Billy Owens, Chris Jackson, Charles Smith, Dennis Hopson, Chris Washburn, Benoit Benjamin, Rodney McCray, Bill Cartwright?
How did Scottie Pippen, Bill Cartwright, John Paxson, Toni Kukoc and Dennis Rodman arrive to the Bulls?

Good talk.

[Ghost Writer]

They probably would have had more opportunities to draft in the Lottery or trade high picks.

The Mavs wouldn't have gotten Dirk if they'd had the #28 pick in the 1998 Draft (or Nash, for that matter.)
Yeah, so the Spurs would be a perennial lottery team.

The kind of team that has its Manu and Parker, but not enough (a #1 draft pick like Duncan) to win it all.

[Holt's Cat]

And you wouldn't have become a fan without the Spurs drafting DRob, so there's a silver lining...

[Ghost Writer]

Dude, I'll admit it.

I am afraid for the future.

I know we are extremely lucky to have Duncan and I greedily want to put as much talent around him as possible before the great run is over.

[Holt's Cat]

So don't go overboard and ruin what is a proven championship team.

[Reggie Miller]

Dude, I'll admit it.

I am afraid for the future.

I know we are extremely lucky to have Duncan and I greedily want to put as much talent around him as possible before the great run is over.


That's the nature of the beast. All things must pass.

The Spurs are a small market team in a league with a salary cap. You will have a rebuilding period. It's a fact of life. Even the Yankees, who have every conceivable advantage (history, huge fan base, license to print money, large market, etc.) in a league without a salary cap, have not been able to avoid rebuilding phases.

[Ghost Writer]

So don't go overboard and ruin what is a proven championship team.
I want to gamble to assure another title.

And privately, I want to feel like our team can get things done after Duncan retires.

[FromWayDowntown]

That's the nature of the beast. All things must pass.

The Spurs are a small market team in a league with a salary cap. You will have a rebuilding period. It's a fact of life. Even the Yankees, who have every conceivable advantage (history, huge fan base, license to print money, large market, etc.) in a league without a salary cap, have not been able to avoid rebuilding phases.

I offered that reality before and got shouted down.

[FromWayDowntown]

And privately, I want to feel like our team can get things done after Duncan retires.

Teams don't frequently win without dominant players like Tim Duncan. And it's unlikely (virtually impossible) that the Spurs will be able to get a player of Duncan's quality (or even David Robinson's quality) without landing a high lottery pick. That is going to take either an exceptionally fortunate trade for a future pick (a possibility that seems unlikely, as the Spurs are more likely to be selling #1 picks than buying them) or the complete end of the Duncan era.

[Ghost Writer]

I offered that reality before and got shouted down.
By who?

No new ground there.

It's possible to stay good.

You have to take calculated risks and make sound moves, before your window closes completely, like the Jazz.

Or you get real bad and hope to land a lucky high draft pick, ala the Cavs.

[FromWayDowntown]

By who?

No new ground there.

It's possible to stay good.

You have to take calculated risks and make sound moves, before your window closes completely, like the Jazz.

Or you get real bad and hope to land a lucky high draft pick, ala the Cavs.

The Jazz got pretty bad -- they were 26-56 in 2004-05; they had to get pretty bad to have a pick high enough to get Williams. They also missed the playoffs for 3 straight seasons.

[Ghost Writer]

Look at their last 20 years.

[FromWayDowntown]

Look at their last 20 years.

Understood, mostly because they managed to use 2 draft picks wisely to get Stockton and Malone and then filled in with reasonably-priced veterans who could play the game and stay within the team concept -- sounds frighteningly familiar to me.

And still, they had to go backwards -- and way backwards -- to get themselves back into position to compete for playoff spots in the West.

[Ghost Writer]

Their third stars at any given time were acquisitions -- Jeff Malone and Jeff Hornacek, as is Carlos Boozer today.

'Sup?

[Holt's Cat]

Most likely the time will come when it might appear attractive to move Duncan (say 2011) to get some package of young players and picks and start rebuilding. But you do have to weigh that against the loyalty he's shown the franchise and the fact that having him retire a Spur is no small thing. The Spurs encountered this same issue with DRob and then Ice before him. They kept DRob. They dealt Ice. Granted, those were somewhat different scenarios. But who here will say seeing DRob leave his last NBA game having won a championship was not one of the best moments in sports they've witnessed? I will say that attending that in person was awesome and I thought that entertaining the notion of letting DRob go to land Webber was compelling at the time. We all learn. Moving the face of the franchise sucks. And it's not always the golden path it appears to be on the surface.

Anyways, the Spurs will likely hit rebuilding at once instead of trying to parlay some of their big 3 into picks or young talent. Plus they will still have Parker, provided he doesn't opt to leave. Should they draft wisely then they should be able to put a good young group around Parker. This is why I don't think you just dump 1st round picks for marginal talent today. These drafts contain such a mix of early college entrants, experienced college players, and a rather deep pool of international talent that you can find NBA players late in the 1st round in most years. Plus it's not like Duncan is 36 years old today. The Big 3 have at probably 3 to 4 more years together. Drafting wisely today can help you supplement the supporting cast today and set the basis for future success. The Spurs are more likely to land star talent through the draft than to lure it through free agency. No biggie. That's just a fact of life for the Spurs.

[Ghost Writer]

Well said.

You were there for the title-clinching game in 2001?

That's awesome.

Quite frankly, I advocated Webber for Robinson and now I am very grateful that didn't happen. I also was prepared to send a second-year Tony Parker away for Gary Payton, because I wanted that second title. We got it anyway.

I guess I am of the midset to perpetually mortgage the future to win now.

I can't predict who s going to become a star or what pick is going to pan out, so I am more inclined to go for what are perceived sure things.

I'm not saying that is always the best approach.

I don't know if the Spurs would have won more or less with that "win now" mentality.

4 titles is very good, regardless.

I just don't want the Spurs to fade into obscurity after Duncan is gone.

It's so easy to become like the Milwaukee Bucks.

My fear is that our second-tier stars of Parker and Ginobili will have us scraping for 8 seeds in the future. Good enough for the playoffs with no realistic shot at winning.

[FromWayDowntown]

Their third stars at any given time were acquisitions -- Jeff Malone and Jeff Hornacek, as is Carlos Boozer today.

'Sup?

They traded Jeff Malone to get Jeff Hornacek. That's like saying that the Spurs should trade Parker/Ginobili to get a guy who's like Parker/Ginobili. Malone was in Utah as part of a three-team deal that netted the Bullets the guy who had been the #1 overall pick the year before (Pervis Ellison).

They got Boozer as a free agent because they had plenty of money to offer and Boozer was promised only the MLE by the Cavs.

'Sup indeed.

[Ghost Writer]

Yeah, um, so they made moves.

[duncan228]

You were there for the title-clinching game in 2001?

Had to be 2003.

[FromWayDowntown]

Yeah, um, so they made moves.

So, trade Parker to get a guy who's like Parker, only different, just to say we made a move!?!?!?

Oh, to be like the Jazz of the 1990's!!!!

[Holt's Cat]

So maybe the Spurs become like the Bulls, Pistons, or Celtics, years of struggle after years of plenty. Such is life in the NBA. It's a bit much to expect to continue to contend after the greatest power forward in NBA history retires. Selectively keeping draft picks can help you contend today and do a little better than you would expect tomorrow. One could certainly have made a case for dealing that pick in 2001 instead of using it on a 19 year old guard from Paris Basket Racing in favor of 'win it all now'. That was certainly the thought process that saw the Spurs deal the '03 pick instead of using it on a Wake Forest product. Sure, if what would land a Mike Miller is the pick, then you have to think about moving it. But, as is often the case in the NBA, what seems to be down is up and what's up is down. Standing pat often has its rewards, especially when you are talking about a core group that has brought home 3 of the last 5 NBA championships.

[Ghost Writer]

FWD, they traded J. Malone on the downturn of his career to bring in a new third star in Hornacek.

You feeling okay, today?

You're off your game.

This point is that it is possible to extend the viability of your team via free agency, trades and shrewd moves.

You don't always have to get sh1tty to get good.

The Jazz took two years off.

Big whoop.

[Holt's Cat]

Clearly 25 year old Tony Parker's career is coming to a close.

[Ghost Writer]

Dense.

Once again, your take a valid point and bend it into nonsense.

Hypothetically, the Spurs may be forced with trading some of our top players as their careers wind down.

Not now, dummies. Later.

Like the Jazz did with J. Malone.




Phoooo.

It's one thing to be argumentative, but don't play dumb.

it's unbecoming and a fvcking waste of time.

Especially you, FWD. Your game has been garbage today!

Follow the thread. Don't embellish.

[Holt's Cat]

Parker's career hasn't hit the midway point yet. Why are the Spurs dealing him?

[FromWayDowntown]

FWD, they traded J. Malone on the downturn of his career to bring in a new third star in Hornacek.

You feeling okay, today?

You're off your game.

This point is that it is possible to extend the viability of your team via free agency, trades and shrewd moves.

You don't always have to get sh1tty to get good.

The Jazz took two years off.

Big whoop.

Of course it is, but once Stockton and Malone called it day, the Jazz had to go backwards, regardless of the shrewd moves that they made to mix-and-match pieces when Stockton and Malone were in their primes. You seem to want to ignore it, but the Jazz did have to get sh1tty to get good; it took them a top-of-the-lottery pick to even sniff the playoffs again.

You can extend the viability of your team while your superstar(s) are still active, but it's your superstars that make your team a contender. The Jazz made some nice moves, but weren't particularly considered a title contender between 2001 and 2007.

I also don't see the comparison on the Jeff Malone-for-Hornacek deal. At the time of that deal, Malone was 32 and Hornacek was 30. The Spurs don't have a third star who's on the downturn of his career at this point -- you've already balked (seemingly, I can't keep straight who you're willing to trade anymore) at the idea of trading Ginobili, so that leaves Parker, who's (as Holt's Cat pointed out) 25 years old and seemingly improving every year (with 2 All-Star nods from the coaches already on his resume).

[FromWayDowntown]

Dense.

Once again, your take a valid point and bend it into nonsense.

Hypothetically, the Spurs may be forced with trading some of our top players as their careers wind down.

Not now, dummies. Later.

Like the Jazz did with J. Malone.




Phoooo.

It's one thing to be argumentative, but don't play dumb.

it's unbecoming and a fvcking waste of time.

Especially you, FWD. Your game has been garbage today!

Follow the thread. Don't embellish.

Yeah, I thought we were supposed to win now and worry later. Now you're talking about whether the Spurs should deal Parker and/or Ginobili a few years from now?

Can YOU even keep your arguments straight anymore? It's impossible to engage the merits of your arguments when they keep changing and don't stay focused on any particular principle.

[Ghost Writer]

WTF?

Is it that hard?

We were tlaking about trading for Artest and then you went on a tangent, trying to disprove that teams could stay good and rebuild on the fly. I brought up the Jazz and how they extended their playoff run through trades and free agent signings.

I hope the Spurs consider all options before tanking it.

You disagree?




Now = 2.19.08

Trade cap space and a pick for a star-quality player named Artest.

Future = 2012+

That's when tough decisions about Duncan and Co. should start to be thought about.







Follow the bouncing ball, FWD. You can do it!

[Holt's Cat]

I thought we were supposed to worry about the "future" now. Or was that only in another thread?

[FromWayDowntown]

WTF?

Is it that hard?

We were tlaking about trading for Artest and then you went on a tangent, trying to disprove that teams could stay good and rebuild on the fly. I brought up the Jazz and how they extended their playoff run through trades and free agent signings.

I just acknowledged, when someone else mentioned it, that there will be a rebuilding process in San Antonio post-Duncan. Just as there was a rebuilding process in Salt Lake City post-Stockton and Malone.


I hope the Spurs consider all options before tanking it.

You disagree?

I think you're making up arguments to be argumentative, frankly. I didn't realize that this thread had become a discussion about what the Spurs should do in 2011 or 2012. I mentioned here (and elsewhere) that the notion of remaining a title contender with a seamless transition to a post-Duncan era of dominance was unlikely without obtaining a high lottery pick in the interim. You're now suggesting that by revamping their second and third stars three or four years from now will permit that kind of transition. I fundamentally disagree.


Now = 2.19.08

Trade cap space and a pick for a star-quality player named Artest.

Future = 2012+

That's when tough decisions about Duncan and Co. should start to be thought about.

I can see the point in Artest, but only if it can be done without sacrificing Parker and/or Ginobili and, even then, I have reservations because of who the target might be. But even if the Spurs were to acquire Artest, I don't think that such a trade suggests that the Spurs are going to (or should) dump Parker and Ginobili in 2010-11 to get younger star players when that time comes, mostly because I think there's very little chance (barring a miracle of some sort) that the Spurs would consider themselves to be anything other than fringe playoff contenders when Duncan's time comes to an end.

If you want to assure that you'll be relegated to long stretches of mediocrity, the best bet to do so is to keep acquiring mid-level stars who will keep the program respectable in the standings while assuring that you don't ever land the big fish in the lottery.

[Ghost Writer]

Whatever, dude.

I just realized that you have knee-jerk reactions to certain posts out of context of the flow of the thread, which explains some of your off-the-page reactions.

I've made it as succinct as possible for you to catch up.

I challenge you to actually read the posts. All of them.

Again, if we're talking now, you trade non-essentials for Artest.

If you are talking 3-5 years from now, you need to look at extending the longevity of the team's contention -- even if it means perhaps moving one of your Big Three as the Jazz did.

I have no desire to get bad for an extended period of time to get good again, and Manu and Parker are not enough to be contenders as Duncan approaches retirement.

[Ghost Writer]

Parker's career hasn't hit the midway point yet. Why are the Spurs dealing him?
Phooo.

They are not.

And no one is suggesting that.

FWD drifted off into "fantasy argument" again.

[Ghost Writer]

I thought we were supposed to worry about the "future" now. Or was that only in another thread?
Win now. Worry later. Forever.

[Spurminator]

Wait a minute, if the concern is where the Spurs will be when Duncan is done, why are we talking about Hornacek? That move didn't help extend the Jazz's relevance after the Stockton/Malone era.

[Holt's Cat]

In 5 years Duncan's on a beach in the VI.

Out of the big 3, TP is the 2nd least likely to be moved. Manu is the 1st, but I don't see the Spurs moving him due to his capabilities in big games.

If Duncan isn't good enough to make the Spurs a contender then you might as well start rebuilding whenever that is, but I don't see that. His game is geared towards longevity.

The Big 3 will remain together until Duncan retires. Manu will likely retire at the same time. So then you start rebuilding around Parker.

[duncan228]

The Big 3 will remain together until Duncan retires. Manu will likely retire at the same time. So then you start rebuilding around Parker.

Don't forget that Pop probably goes when Duncan does. :)

[Holt's Cat]

Once Stockton and Malone were gone the Jazz sucked, regardless of what they did with the other Malone. So you rebuild.

Plus I don't see how a Spurs team in the lottery post-Duncan doesn't start doing deals. The reason we haven't seen many over the last 5 years is that there hasn't been the need to land a top player. It's odd how the Spurs, with their top 3 in place, are compared unfavorably to a Celtics team that wasn't in such a position and was forced into making moves.

Sure, it'd be great if the Spurs could contend forever. That somehow Ian Mahinmi turns into a dominant post player.

Spurs fans have it good. If someone had told me back in 2002 that someone would be bitching about the Spurs after 3 titles in the next 5 years I would have guessed that it was Ghost...

[Ghost Writer]

Wait a minute, if the concern is where the Spurs will be when Duncan is done, why are we talking about Hornacek? That move didn't help extend the Jazz's relevance after the Stockton/Malone era.
Jeezus, Spurm, not you again.

Aren't you afraid to pick a bone after being destroyed yesterday?

You alleged that the Mavs were built primarily through their drafts, yet come to find out, only Howard was drafted by them, as pointed out right away by yours truly.

The point about the Jazz is that you can be a playoff team for a very long time and then get back to the playoffs without rebuilding for many years.

[FromWayDowntown]

Whatever, dude.

I just realized that you have knee-jerk reactions to certain posts out of context of the flow of the thread, which explains some of your off-the-page reactions.

It's never occurred to me that linking ideas in one thread with ideas mentioned in another thread is somehow controversial. In fact, it seems to me to be a far better way to have an informed discussion -- otherwise, you end up with a bunch of disjointed discussions that have no connection at all. That's particularly an odd idea to me where all of those discussions involve the same idea.


I've made it as succinct as possible for you to catch up.

Trust me, I'm caught up. You think that Artest can (should) be had for scraps and that anyone who challenges you on that idea is a homer.


I challenge you to actually read the posts. All of them.

The fact that I disagree with you or challenge portions of your arguments without dealing with every single sentence you've written doesn't mean I don't read your posts (or those of others). I actually resent your suggestion that I'm not contributing anything to your discussions just because I try to challenge your views or suggest that there's no real philosophical point to your incessant cries for a trade -- any trade -- by the Spurs. Pardon me if I think it's best to have some focal point to ground a philosophical view about how a franchise should be run. I don't think it's a particularly sound idea to say "Well LA and Phoenix and Dallas made moves, so we'd better make one too." If it makes sense, do it. If it doesn't, don't.


Again, if we're talking now, you trade non-essentials for Artest.

Says you. Obviously, many here disagree with you.


If you are talking 3-5 years from now, you need to look at extending the longevity of the team's contention -- even if it means perhaps moving one of your Big Three as the Jazz did.

I'll worry about that 3-5 years from now.


I have no desire to get bad for an extended period of time to get good again, and Manu and Parker are not enough to be contenders as Duncan approaches retirement.

Cool. It's not as if I'm rooting for the Spurs to get bad; I'm just presuming that there's a reality out there and that the choices are to accept it and make the most of it or to relegate this franchise to a cyclical time of constant mediocrity. We can take this up again when it matters in 3-5 years.

[Holt's Cat]

Don't forget that Pop probably goes when Duncan does. :)


Right. So all bets are off. It will be a different Spurs team then, likely full of young ballas and the Spurs making trades and pursuing top free agents left and right. Ghost should cream himself just thinking about it.

[Ghost Writer]

Don't forget that Pop probably goes when Duncan does. :)
That's a shame. I wanted to see him actually coach.

[Ghost Writer]

FWD, all I ask is that you take issue with what I actually post.

Thanks, man.

Nice talking to you.

I'm going to pick up my discourse with the others.

For all of our differences, at list Holt's Cat and I stay grounded in our discussions.

[Ghost Writer]

Right. So all bets are off. It will be a different Spurs team then, likely full of young ballas and the Spurs making trades and pursuing top free agents left and right. Ghost should cream himself just thinking about it.
That's a cheap shot.

You know d@mn well that I would no sooner want the Spurs to be like the Nuggets than I would the Knicks for that matter.

If Duncan or Manu are cool with it, maybe you trade them for picks towards the tail end of their careers.

I don't think you make Parker your franchise player moving forward, either.

That's a reach.

But who knows what the team looks like or who's playing what level of ball in 5 years?

[Holt's Cat]

That's a shame. I wanted to see him actually coach.

He does now.

[FromWayDowntown]

FWD, all I ask is that you take issue with what I actually post.

Thanks, man.

Nice talking to you.

I'm going to pick up my discourse with the others.

For all of our differences, at list Holt's Cat and I stay grounded in our discussions.

Holt's Cat and I are making virtually the same points.

I have no quarrel with you. I'm not sure why you're acting like I bring nothing to this discussion.

[Ghost Writer]

He does now.
I'm sorry... that was not fair.

Coach something other than Duncan-led team.

[T Park]

That's a shame. I wanted to see him actually coach.

Its a shame you missed the past few years and this year.

[Holt's Cat]

That's a cheap shot.

How so? That's what you're all about.



You know d@mn well that I would no sooner want the Spurs to be like the Nuggets than I would the Knicks for that matter.


Odd, since everything you advocate goes against the grain of Spurs Basketball.



If Duncan or Manu are cool with it, maybe you trade them for picks towards the tail end of their careers.

I don't think you make Parker your franchise player moving forward, either.


Sure you do. Play an uptempo style and surround him with a bunch of young athletes. That's where things are currently headed.

[FromWayDowntown]

Jeezus, Spurm, not you again.

Aren't you afraid to pick a bone after being destroyed yesterday?

You alleged that the Mavs were built primarily through their drafts, yet come to find out, only Howard was drafted by them, as pointed out right away by yours truly.

The point about the Jazz is that you can be a playoff team for a very long time and then get back to the playoffs without rebuilding for many years.

Because they hit it big in the lottery and managed to sign one free agent.

[Ghost Writer]

Good one, FWD. I am begging you to read... we already covered how the Jazz extended their run. They drafted, traded and signed impact players above and beyond Stockton and Malone.

Just so I can move on, you are right... the Spurs need to suck for a loooooong time to get back to the top when Duncan winds down.

You win, dude.

Good argument.

The Jazz are a terrible example of staying good, rebooting for two years and getting back to the playoffs.

[Ghost Writer]

How so? That's what you're all about.



Odd, since everything you advocate goes against the grain of Spurs Basketball.



Sure you do. Play an uptempo style and surround him with a bunch of young athletes. That's where things are currently headed.
Nah.

I want to put Spurs Basketball over the top with a shrewd trade.

If we build around Parker without getting 2 better players than him, we're doomed, by the way. He's not Chris Paul and even Paul needs his D. West and Peja.

[Holt's Cat]

Over the top? They are on top.

[Ghost Writer]

Okay, dude.

Time has stood still and the NBA has not changed since last June.

Stand pat or send the same sh1t for Thomas as I would for Artest.

You've made your stance abundantly clear.

[FromWayDowntown]

Good one, FWD. I am begging you to read... we already covered how the Jazz extended their run. They drafted, traded and signed impact players above and beyond Stockton and Malone.

And, still, the Jazz run ended when Stockton and Malone walked out the door. They missed the playoffs for 3 straight years and finished 30 games under .500 in another season, but made a stellar draft pick and netted a big-time free agent. It's not like they dealt for a bunch of guys who made them good in the post-Stockton and Malone era -- they drafted Kirilenko while S&M were still there; they picked up Okur and Boozer via free agency; and they drafted Deron Williams and Ronnie Brewer with lottery picks.

I can definitely see your argument for how the Jazz made a seamless transition.

I'm not saying the Spurs have to be bad for an extended period of time to find success on the other end, but I do think there's going to be a period of time when the Spurs will be bad. Whether that's one year or ten, it's extremely likely to happen. I'd prefer that it be a short experience, just like the Jazz had.

[Holt's Cat]

Okay, dude.

Time has stood still and the NBA has not changed since last June.

Stand pat or send the same sh1t for Thomas as I would for Artest.

You've made your stance abundantly clear.


Movement doesn't equal improvement.

[Ghost Writer]

You cry about losing a draft pick and a valuable roll player for Artest, but not for Thomas.

Incredulous.

[Holt's Cat]

Sure, because Thomas is a playoff tested veteran and not likely to bite the head off a puppy in his spare time.

[Ghost Writer]

Sure, because Thomas is a playoff tested veteran and not likely to bite the head off a puppy in his spare time.
And that makes him worth it to you.

Please don't bring up the draft pick or the valuable role player B.S. again.

[Holt's Cat]

What "BS"? The Spurs could use a big like Thomas. I'd give a 2nd rounder for him.

[FromWayDowntown]

I'd argue that Thomas more closely fits an urgent need for the Spurs than Artest does, too. Thomas is a solid defender who can check a good player in the post without much help and is a pretty rugged rebounder as well. Since all of this trade discussion began a week ago with worries about how to deal with LA and Phoenix, Thomas would certainly seem to be the more need-based move. Add to that his relatively consistent jumper from 15-18 feet and the fact that such ability would draw one big out of the lane to defend it and his value to the Spurs (without regard to his general value around the league or relative to all other players) would seem fairly obvious. On top of that, he's generally proven to be a good team guy who plays hard and is willing to mix things up and who has, among other things, Finals experience.

[Spurminator]

Jeezus, Spurm, not you again.

Aren't you afraid to pick a bone after being destroyed yesterday?

You alleged that the Mavs were built primarily through their drafts, yet come to find out, only Howard was drafted by them, as pointed out right away by yours truly.

The point about the Jazz is that you can be a playoff team for a very long time and then get back to the playoffs without rebuilding for many years.

You got destroyed yesterday and you know it.

But don't change the subject again. If you'd like more of the beatdown I handed you yesterday, post in that thread. You can start by telling me how the Mavs would have gotten Dirk or Nash without a high Lottery pick.

Now, back to the Jazz.

They became relevant again by drafting well (Williams, Kirilenko, Millsap, Brewer) and signing Boozer and Okur. If we go through a rebuilding phase I'm sure we'll be more active with trades and signings.

[FromWayDowntown]

Now, back to the Jazz.

They became relevant again by drafting well (Williams, Kirilenko, Millsap, Brewer) and signing Boozer and Okur. If we go through a rebuilding phase I'm sure we'll be more active with trades and signings.

I wish you luck with that argument. I've been trying all day to make those points, but it's as if 2003-2006 never happened to the Jazz.

[Ghost Writer]

LOL

You are hilarious, Spurm. I will concede that the Mavs needed a high pick to make the trade for Dirk, but you need to admit that the team got back to relevance almost exclusively through trades and free agent signings. We documented it.

As for the Jazz, you are correct. I point to them as an example of how a proud franchise can be a long-term contender and get back to the playoffs without a long layoff through a solid mix of yes, the draft, but also trades and free agent signings.

[Holt's Cat]

Jeff Hornacek carried the Jazz to the 2004 NBA Paper Championship.

[Spurminator]

You are hilarious, Spurm. I will concede that the Mavs needed a high pick to make the trade for Dirk and Nash, but you need to admit that the team got back to relevance almost exclusively through trades and free agent signings. We documented it.

Fixed.

[Holt's Cat]

Speaking of the Jazz, anyone remember back in the 90s when it was an automatic loss playing the Jazz at the Delta Center and they could always get a basket when they needed it? That's kinda like how the Spurs are today. Yet we need to blow up the Big 3.

[Ghost Writer]

Fixed.
D1ck... after I tried to meet you more than half way.

When I think of the Mavs, the word "homegrown" does not leap to mind.

[Ghost Writer]

Speaking of the Jazz, anyone remember back in the 90s when it was an automatic loss playing the Jazz at the Delta Center and they could always get a basket when they needed it? That's kinda like how the Spurs are today. Yet we need to blow up the Big 3.
Who wants to blow up the Big 3?!?

[Holt's Cat]

You do. At least you did in another thread.

[Ghost Writer]

You do. At least you did in another thread.
I would entertain Kidd and cap space in 2009 for Kidd.

That's it... unless you are talking about the twilight of Duncan's career.

Then we have to look at all options.

Parker needs help if you want to build with him... not around him.

[Ghost Writer]

Rotowire.com's latest:

Ron Artest: Could be Traded Before Thursday's Deadline - 2/20/2008 7:44:09 AM

Update:
Artest might be headed to Denver in a trade, but only if Nuggets small forward Linas Kleiza is included in a deal, the Sacramento Bee reports. Artest can opt out of his contract at the end of the season, leaving the Kings empty-handed.

Recommendation:
"I don't think the plan was ever to unload any of our guys and not get something that works for this team," Kings coach Reggie Theus said. "So unless something really comes up that's a great deal, we may not do anything.” Theus and President Geoff Petrie are straight shooters, so it’s quite possible they are more than willing to risk getting nothing in return for their small forward if he isn’t dealt. They have maintained Artest is more valuable compared to the players and draft picks other teams have been able to offer in a package.

[Ghost Writer]

Please make this happen, Pop.

I will never complain about the Spurs not making a smart, aggressive in-season deal again.