Spurs interested in Tyrus Thomas?

[Bruno]

According to many Bulls boards, Ric Bucher said today on Fastbreak that Spurs were interested in getting Tyrus Thomas.

Discuss.

[Sense]

sure why not

[bostonguy]

All those guys are untouchable because John Paxson is a dumb ass GM. He wouldnt deal average players like Deng/Gordon for players like Kobe/KG/Gasol so I would be shocked if he took anything the Spurs had.

[ShoogarBear]

Can't see how he's going to help this year.

And as for the future, I suppose he's a possible long 3 defensively, but on offense he's strictly a 4. With Mahnmi and Splitter coming it, I don't see how he fits or gets minutes. Even if the Spurs get rid of both Elson AND Oberto.

[Extra Stout]

As always, in any thread suggesting a trade, in which the thread title ends with a "?," the "?" means "this is all speculative BS that somebody made up out of whole cloth."

Even if that somebody is Ric Bucher.

[T Park]

Isn't he pretty much a young Francisco Elson?

[remingtonbo2001]

Isn't he pretty much a young Francisco Elson?

Key word here is YOUNG!

Meaning with a positive enviroment and good coaching, it's still possible to develope him into a good player. Unlike Elson, he hasn't been tainted by poor coaching and a horrible enviroment.

However, I'm not sure we really need him. Maybe? Depends. If we just gotta give up Elson and a pick I'm cool with that. I don't know too much about Thomas so I really can't comment.

EDIT: By the way...Since this is all over the boards...Can we get a link?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Isn't he pretty much a young Francisco Elson?
Except he doesn't have the defensive IQ of a melon.
And as for Tyrus, sure why not. He could turn into a great player for us.

[T Park]

If hes like Cisco but smarter, bring him the fuck on.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Trade scenarios, salary-knowledged members?


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3032~234&teams=24~4&te=&cash=
:) I think some of you would like this one.

[td4mvp21]

He's very athletic. He is 6'8'' and at LSU he was a good defender, I don't want to say he is a good defender in the NBA because I honestly haven't even seen him play that much to know. He can probably rebound and get some nice put backs. I have seen him throw down some nasty dunks. Judging by his field goal percentage, his offensive game needs some work.

[Bruno]

By the way...Since this is all over the boards...Can we get a link?
espn message board (http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nba&id=chi&tid=2298563&lid=21)
realgm message board (http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=757633http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=757633)

[Bruno]

As always, in any thread suggesting a trade, in which the thread title ends with a "?," the "?" means "this is all speculative BS that somebody made up out of whole cloth."

Even if that somebody is Ric Bucher.

:rolleyes
The "?" is put by me not by Ric Bucher.
Both of us have no clue if there are some truth or not behind this rumor.

[remingtonbo2001]

espn message board (http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nba&id=chi&tid=2298563&lid=21)
realgm message board (http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=757633http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=757633)

Thank you :worthy:

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Some of them still think we have ***** *****! :lol

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Some trade scenarios the Bulls fans at RealGM are looking at:


Bulls Receive: Brent Barry, Michael Finley, Robert Horry, Francisco Elson, Tiago Splitter.

Spurs Receive: Ben Wallace, Tyrus Thomas.


I'd think about Noc and Tyrus for Ginobili and the Spurs 1st

[Beno Udrih]

I dont know... but I'd like the idea of tyrus floating around in the paint and being a help blocker behind tim and fab or any other big whenever some one tries to post.

[Beno Udrih]

:lol Ginobili isn't going anywhere!

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

he actually said the Spurs want to get more athletic and they've had internal discussions regarding acquiring J.R. Smith or Tyrus Thomas.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=757633&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=12&sid=a2c5748d7ef5404c0211517bb9264a1e

[ChumpDumper]

He had a good game against the Spurs once, so of course we are interested.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

how about trying to get some combination of Finley/Barry/Bonner back? Maybe for Tyrus + Viktor +/or Griff?
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=757633&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=24

[Beno Udrih]

I have a felling nothing is going to happen. This time of year is when the "trade" rumors run like crazy!

[T Park]

I'd do whatever it took to get Noc and Tyrus thomas.

[T Park]

Bonner and Barry for Tyrus and Kryapa?

Where do I sign?

[VaSpursFan]

i'd rather we bring in another shooter at this point. but if that's the best we can do, i'll take him.

[Bruno]

To me the trade that makes more sense is Thomas for Elson + Mahinmi + a first round pick.

I don't see Bulls giving up so soon Tyrus Thomas who was their 4th pick.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

To me the trade that makes more sense is Thomas for Elson + Mahinmi + a first round pick.

I don't see Bulls giving up so soon Tyrus Thomas who was their 4th pick.

No way I'd give up Mahinmi for Tyrus.

[AFBlue]

Spurs have interest in Thomas, doesn't mean the Bulls have interest in anything the Spurs have to offer.

I think the JR Smith mention is more likely.

[ChumpDumper]

He's definitely a small ball PF, but I'm having trouble figuring out what his trade value could be right now.

[remingtonbo2001]

As I said above, I wouldn't mind letting Elson go for Tyrus, but I can't imagine Paxon pulling the trigger on this deal.

Didn't Jim Paxon play for us at one time? Maybe we could use our inside connection and pull a deal? :lol

[ChumpDumper]

I'm sure we'd have to throw in at least one pick.

[Bruno]

No way I'd give up Mahinmi for Tyrus.

If Spurs do a trade for Thomas I don't see them keeping both Splitter and Mahinmi. Having 3 young bigmen (Thomas, Splitter and Mahinmi) on a contender seems to be too much.

Even if I really like Mahinmi, Thomas seems to be a significant better project than him.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Elson + both 2nd rounders for Tyrus?

[T Park]

I agree, I'd trade Mahinmi in a package involving Tyrus.

I'd try as hard as hell if they are trading with Chicago for Nocioni though.

[Mr. Body]

Why in the world does Chicago want to trade Thomas? The only thing I can figure is his attitude is so dismal, but it can't be that bad, can it?

I can't see what the Spurs have beyond Splitter, and he alone wouldn't net. Trading Thomas now would be a big admission of error on Chicago's part (taking him over Aldridge), compounded by another error (trading him).

[manufor3]

Trade scenarios, salary-knowledged members?


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3032~234&teams=24~4&te=&cash=
:) I think some of you would like this one.
pull that trigger now :greedy

[Mr. Body]

Should add: if the Spurs had Scola in fold, Bulls would probably do Scola for Thomas straight up.

But we traded him for nothing, etc...

[T Park]

The Bulls apparently weren't interested in him before.

[objective]

To me the trade that makes more sense is Thomas for Elson + Mahinmi + a first round pick.

I don't see Bulls giving up so soon Tyrus Thomas who was their 4th pick.

I agree

But there is some odd precedent.

Spurs got a 4th pick of the first round before, after he had only played one year (Antonio Daniels).

And all they had to give up to get him was a late first (Felipe Lopez) and Carl Herrera.

If the Bulls are looking to cut their losses, you never know . . .

[timvp]

Oh hell yes. I'd definitely approve of a trade for Tyrus Thomas. I think he has huge potential ... his problem is attitude. Put him in San Antonio with all the veterans and leadership and this kid could turn into a stud.

While Thomas has said he'd want to play small forward at some point, he's definitely a full time power forward on the Spurs. He's a tad bit short but his athleticism would more than make up for it. He couldn't play small forward for the Spurs at this point. Perhaps in the future if he were to add a reliable jumper but right now he's a big in the Spurs system.

The best part about adding him would be his shotblocking. In the Spurs' defensive schemes, he could average David Robinson amount of blocked shots. Add in the fact that he's a better rebounder than anyone on the team outside of Duncan and I'd be 100% for such a move.

I've seen him on the Bulls a lot and the Bulls just don't have the personnel to let him succeed. He's not a scorer but when they play him next to Ben Wallace or Joakim Noah, they rely on him to score ... which he isn't good at doing. On the Spurs, he'd just be a guy who would score trash baskets off of offensive rebounds and good ball movement ... and that'd fit right in with his strengths. Defensively, he could block shots, rebound and he's quick enough to keep on the court against small ball.

All that said, I don't think the Spurs have enough to get him. The Bulls would have to be high on someone like Mahinmi or Splitter for the Spurs to have a chance. Thomas doesn't make enough money for the Bulls just to salary dump him. Elson, Mahinmi and a first makes sense for the Spurs ..... but the Bulls would want more unless they think Mahinmi is a can't-miss prospect.

Thomas would be a very nice fit for this season and the future ... but realistically I don't think the Spurs have a chance at landing him.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Why are most people ready to give up Mahinmi for Thomas?
Is Thomas THAT much better than him?

[timvp]

Is Thomas THAT much better than him?Yes. Thomas has shown an ability to rebound and block shots impressively at the NBA level. Mahinmi hasn't shown an ability to rebound or block shots impressively on the DLeague level.

[objective]

on a side note:

Chicago has seen Mahinmi for awhile, as indicated in this post from the European Prospects blog, so maybe they could be interested after Mahinmi's d-league progress:

2007-02-01

http://europeanprofiles.blog.de/2007/02/01/pau_orthez_heavily_scouted~1663867


. . . Besides others, Memphis and Chicago have been present to see Ian Mahinmi finally having an interesting game, especially in defense, where he showed great speed on the help defense and on double teams. He finished the game with 6pts (100%) 3rebs and 2blks. . .

[ss1986v2]

Why are most people ready to give up Mahinmi for Thomas?
Is Thomas THAT much better than him?
have you seen tyrus when he gets extended minutes the last year and a half? kid has shown to be a more than competent (ie, really good) rebounder and shot blocker at the nba level already. he has STUD written all over him. id cut off a toe to get him on the spurs at a discounted rate. if you havent gotten to see him play, then go pull up his game logs for this year. then look at the games in which he gets 20+ minutes. kid just needs some PT (and not having to fill the offensive void caused by that bulls front line).

tyrus and ian arent close on the potential or trade value scale.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Yes. Thomas has shown an ability to rebound and block shots impressively at the NBA level. Mahinmi hasn't shown an ability to rebound or block shots impressively on the DLeague level.

Well since those are good points I guess I'm leaning towards Thomas then.
Still want Mahinmi to stay though.

[picnroll]

I'd think Chicago would be more interested in a more traditional and more skilled center, splitter.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Can't see how he's going to help this year.

And as for the future, I suppose he's a possible long 3 defensively, but on offense he's strictly a 4. With Mahnmi and Splitter coming it, I don't see how he fits or gets minutes. Even if the Spurs get rid of both Elson AND Oberto.

:tu

What do people think about Noah? LJ, would you do a Noah for Elson/Mahinmi 1st rounder? I like his energy.

[freedom&justice]

Why in the world does Chicago want to trade Thomas? The only thing I can figure is his attitude is so dismal, but it can't be that bad, can it?

I can't see what the Spurs have beyond Splitter, and he alone wouldn't net. Trading Thomas now would be a big admission of error on Chicago's part (taking him over Aldridge), compounded by another error (trading him).

Because he's been in the doghouse (for what reason I don't know). They seem to prefer Noah, and they have similar games. Tyrus is an athletic freak - just insane athleticism. He's part of the reason (Noah too) why we're 0-3 against his team; we weren't playing the guy who had the speed and athleticism to compete with him then. He has pretty good D, actually - the Spurs could probably use him.

[Bruno]

I'm not that high on Thomas. He has a huge upside but he has a quite big chance to end up as a bust.
I'm not even sure that I would like a trade where Splitter is traded for Thomas.

And as said by others, Spurs' chance to get Thomas should be around 1%.

[objective]

what are Thomas's chances of turning into Stromile Swift?

[exstatic]

Oh hell yes. I'd definitely approve of a trade for Tyrus Thomas. I think he has huge potential ... his problem is attitude. Put him in San Antonio with all the veterans and leadership and this kid could turn into a stud.

While Thomas has said he'd want to play small forward at some point, he's definitely a full time power forward on the Spurs. He's a tad bit short but his athleticism would more than make up for it. He couldn't play small forward for the Spurs at this point. Perhaps in the future if he were to add a reliable jumper but right now he's a big in the Spurs system.

The best part about adding him would be his shotblocking. In the Spurs' defensive schemes, he could average David Robinson amount of blocked shots. Add in the fact that he's a better rebounder than anyone on the team outside of Duncan and I'd be 100% for such a move.

I've seen him on the Bulls a lot and the Bulls just don't have the personnel to let him succeed. He's not a scorer but when they play him next to Ben Wallace or Joakim Noah, they rely on him to score ... which he isn't good at doing. On the Spurs, he'd just be a guy who would score trash baskets off of offensive rebounds and good ball movement ... and that'd fit right in with his strengths. Defensively, he could block shots, rebound and he's quick enough to keep on the court against small ball.

All that said, I don't think the Spurs have enough to get him. The Bulls would have to be high on someone like Mahinmi or Splitter for the Spurs to have a chance. Thomas doesn't make enough money for the Bulls just to salary dump him. Elson, Mahinmi and a first makes sense for the Spurs ..... but the Bulls would want more unless they think Mahinmi is a can't-miss prospect.

Thomas would be a very nice fit for this season and the future ... but realistically I don't think the Spurs have a chance at landing him.
+1

He's having a poor season, but who isn't on the Bulls? Last year, he ripped down 3.7 boards and blocked 1.1 shots...in 13.4 minutes.

[exstatic]

what are Thomas's chances of turning into Stromile Swift?
It could happen. It depends on how much work he puts in. Also, Stromile's nickname is Slo-mile. He's supposedly dumb as a post about b-ball. Haven't really heard that about Thomas.

[Mr. Body]

what are Thomas's chances of turning into Stromile Swift?

He's looking up at Stromile Swift at this moment. Swift was much better than Thomas at this point in their careers.

Thomas is nearly a bust at this point.

[exstatic]

Stro's rookie season was an almost carbon copy of Thomas's. Stro's minutes climbed sharply, while Thomas is caught in a logjam in year two. If Thomas puts in the work, he can be better. Stro always relied on his hops and never really had anything else to fall back on.

[tav1]

I've followed Thomas for a few years...he could be an absolute stud in the right system, which is not Chicago. His current situation is a classic example of a bad fit.

Thomas could also be in the rotation this year and gives the Spurs an athletic high energy 4 that they've never really had. Elson and Mahinmi for Thomas is equitable, but I wouldn't do much more than that. Maybe a 2nd rounder.

Actually, as I think about Mahinmi's skill set, he'd be helpful to Chicago. And in terms of high energy 4s, Chicago has to choose between Noah and Thomas.

[AFBlue]

I find the reported interest in Thomas...well interesting. I think it might say alot in regards to how the Spurs feel about Mahinmi.

Let me explain....

Mahinmi, when drafted, was billed as a raw super-athletic big man with a penchant for blocking shots and grabbing boards. That is an eerily similar profile to the aformentioned Thomas.

But, this year Mahinmi has come over to the D-League and shown neither the propensity to block nor the propensity to grab rebounds. Instead, much to the suprise of the Spurs coaching staff I'm sure and probably many forum members, Mahinmi has focused on low-post scoring....doing quite well actually.

While I think MANY coaching staffs would welcome this suprise, I think it might actually be turning off the Spurs FO, who were hoping Mahinmi would use his supreme athleticism on the defensive end rather than on offense.

Thomas, on the other hand, has really lived up to his billing as a defensive stud in his limited minutes with the Bulls. He has shown both the propensity to grab boards (especially offensively) and to block shots. While he still has a LONG way to go offensively, I think it is less of a concern with THIS front office than most others. Plus, the fact that he is stuck behind a $15M/yr player and their first rounder from this year, means he might be had cheaper than one would suspect for a lottery pick just a short while ago.

I'm not sure what the Spurs have to really entice the Bulls to pull this deal off, but I think the interest itself says alot about what the Spurs are looking for. Whether I agree with them or not, I think it's clear that they are more than willing to get rid of young prospects (think Butler and Scola) to find players that fit their system and style of play.

As far as Thomas himself is concerned, the main issue I have is his attitude. For a guy that was projected to be like Shawn Marion, he has a TON of work to do, and this attitude that he's exhibited thus far like he's already "arrived" isn't going to get him there.

Having said all that....

I would love for the Spurs to take a chance on this kid. Having lived in SEC country I saw the way this kid just took over games despite having less skill than others. He basically established his dominance by sheer will and determination....and insane athleticism. If the Spurs can get this guy and turn that determination into production, there's ALOT to like.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Nice post Tony. Good points all.

That's "penchant for blocking shots", btw.

[diego]

ehh, i agree with shoogarbear, he wouldnt have any impact this year... and most bulls boards ive seen are pretty divided on thomas- theres the free thomas crowd and the i-cant-believe we traded aldridge-for-this crowd

that said, if you can turn elsons expiring + mahinimi or a pick for a young athletic player that can block shots, do it.

[AFBlue]

Nice post Tony. Good points all.

That's "penchant for blocking shots", btw.

Noted and changed....

:lol

[DynastyBuilder]

Trade scenarios, salary-knowledged members?


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3032~234&teams=24~4&te=&cash=
:) I think some of you would like this one.

If we're already over the cap why the eff not :)

[timvp]

:tu

What do people think about Noah? LJ, would you do a Noah for Elson/Mahinmi 1st rounder? I like his energy.Eh, I'd have to think about that one. I know a lot of NBA fans hate Noah but I think he still has a chance to be pretty good.


I'd think Chicago would be more interested in a more traditional and more skilled center, splitter.I'd likely trade Splitter for Thomas. I haven't seen Splitter that much this year so I can't say 100% that I would. But unless Splitter is vastly improved, I'd do it.


what are Thomas's chances of turning into Stromile Swift?There's definitely a chance. But even if there's a 60% chance he turns into Slo-mile and 40% chance he figures it out, that 40% chance is well worth the risk. The Spurs defense how it's build is dependent on shotblockers. It's been quite amazing that they've been able to win two championships since Robinson retired and took his shotblocking with him.

But that's also the reason that Duncan gets in foul trouble in the playoffs because he is now the last wall of defense all by himself. Put a shotblocker like Thomas on the floor who can matchup big or small and the defense would get much better.

If Elson got pretty decent minutes last year in the playoffs, Pop would find some minutes for Thomas. However, getting Thomas would definitely be a move for the future. With a truckload of expiring contracts, now is the time to flip them into pieces that can be used now and down the line. We saw what happened with Kwame Brown's contract ... and the Spurs have expiring contracts totaling nearly two times that.

[picnroll]

Is Thomas the kind of shot blocker that's opportunistic, coming off the ball. Or is he the kind that controls the player and blocks the shot a la Robinson and Duncan to a lesser degree. I think he's much more the opportunistic type and his paint defense would not be so great in a Spurs system. Of course this year the Spurs don't have that system. I think Mahinmi has a better chance of being an intimidator in the paint, if he can catch on.

[lefty]

Ric Bucher ?

Really?

[Mr. Body]

picnroll -- Horry is more of the opportunistic shot blocker, as is Tyrus Thomas.

If guys like Gasol and now Tyrus Thomas are truly available for expiring contracts, the Spurs absolutely need to find a way to get younger talent.

[picnroll]

picnroll -- Horry is more of the opportunistic shot blocker, as is Tyrus Thomas.

If guys like Gasol and now Tyrus Thomas are truly available for expiring contracts, the Spurs absolutely need to find a way to get younger talent.
And Spurs can't run their twin tower defense with Horry. Probably less so with Thomas. Mahinmi in his brief four games with the Spurs averaged 8.5 blocks per 48 minutes. Granted he was reasonably clueless and foul prone but he hasn't been in the league 2 years and shown the relatively low IQ of Thomas. I'm sure the Spurs have or are sizing Ian up and may feel he doesn't have it but I'm not convinced he doesn't have as good or better a chance of being a solid post defender then Thomas.

[timvp]

Is Thomas the kind of shot blocker that's opportunistic, coming off the ball. Or is he the kind that controls the player and blocks the shot a la Robinson and Duncan to a lesser degree. I think he's much more the opportunistic type and his paint defense would not be so great in a Spurs system. Of course this year the Spurs don't have that system. I think Mahinmi has a better chance of being an intimidator in the paint, if he can catch on.Thomas is a weakside shotblocker. Duncan has morphed into taking a lot of Robinson's responsibilities in the defense. However, adding a shotblocker who can block players he's not guarding would be a really addition to this defense. The only halfway decent weakside shotblocker on this team is Horry and Horry doesn't really have the legs to do it much anymore.

Last time I looked, the Spurs averaged the second fewest blocks per game out of any team in the NBA. With a defense that funnels players to the bigmen, that's absurdly bad and a big reason why the Spurs aren't very good defensively this year. Duncan has to play out of his mind defense like he did last year in the playoffs for the Spurs to become a good defensive team nowadays.

[ChumpDumper]

Hmm. I don't know if they are looking for an athlete to repalce Ian or play with him.

[timvp]

And Spurs can't run their twin tower defense with Horry. Probably less so with Thomas. Mahinmi in his brief four games with the Spurs averaged 8.5 blocks per 48 minutes. Granted he was reasonably clueless and foul prone but he hasn't been in the league 2 years and shown the relatively low IQ of Thomas. I'm sure the Spurs have or are sizing Ian up and may feel he doesn't have it but I'm not convinced he doesn't have as good or better a chance of being a solid post defender then Thomas.Mahinmi has played a total of 23 minutes in the NBA. That sample size is awfully small to be pulling out the per 48 minutes stats :)

Mahinmi hasn't shown to be able to block shots in the D-League, which isn't a good sign. In fact, Mahinmi hasn't shown to do much of anything on the defensive end because when he tries to do anything, he fouls.

I can confidently say that Thomas > Mahinmi in all aspects of defense right now. Maybe that will change at some point down the line but it's not even close right now.

[picnroll]

At their best Robinson and Duncan ere both weak side and strong side shot blockers. Spurs have a better chance of accomplishing that with Mahinmi or Splitter, though Splitter doesn't seem to go for the block. Thomas would be okay in small ball but I don't think in the Spurs traditional twin tower D.

[AFBlue]

And Spurs can't run their twin tower defense with Horry. Probably less so with Thomas. Mahinmi in his brief four games with the Spurs averaged 8.5 blocks per 48 minutes. Granted he was reasonably clueless and foul prone but he hasn't been in the league 2 years and shown the relatively low IQ of Thomas. I'm sure the Spurs have or are sizing Ian up and may feel he doesn't have it but I'm not convinced he doesn't have as good or better a chance of being a solid post defender then Thomas.

The upside with Thomas is in him developing his perimeter game and becoming a viable option at the 3. Right now he's probably strictly a 4, but if he were able to work on his perimter offense he could be a legitimate option for both.

With Oberto locked up for 3 years, Splitter most likely coming over next year, and the ability to go out and sign a stop-gap center if necessary, I think it makes the departure of Mahinmi somewhat palatable.

Of course none of this talk, to include trading Mahinmi, has been substantiated....but I can see why the Spurs might be interested in Thomas and may in fact be willing to part with Mahinmi to do so.

[picnroll]

Mahinmi has played a total of 23 minutes in the NBA. That sample size is awfully small to be pulling out the per 48 minutes stats :)

Mahinmi hasn't shown to be able to block shots in the D-League, which isn't a good sign. In fact, Mahinmi hasn't shown to do much of anything on the defensive end because when he tries to do anything, he fouls.

I can confidently say that Thomas > Mahinmi in all aspects of defense right now. Maybe that will change at some point down the line but it's not even close right now.
I know it's a small sample size. Thomas in his greater minutes, approximaately 15 per game is 56th in the league in blocks, not bad not great. Petro is better and Mahinmi could possibly be as good as Petro. I'm not sure how much of Mahinmi's lack of defense in the D league is Spurs trying to keep him on the court. I haven't seen Mahinmi. Does he against play and get abused by the better bigs like Brown, Fazekas, etc..

[timvp]

At their best Robinson and Duncan ere both weak side and strong side shot blockers. Spurs have a better chance of accomplishing that with Mahinmi or Splitter, though Splitter doesn't seem to go for the block. Thomas would be okay in small ball but I don't think in the Spurs traditional twin tower D.I think Thomas has the freak athleticism to play both styles of defense for the Spurs. But yeah, right away he'd be most useful as a weapon to use in place of small ball.

Either way, I think this is a moot point because the Bulls aren't going to give up on him for what the Spurs can offer. The Spurs could offer Mahinmi, Splitter and a first and I don't think the Bulls take it. Not that Thomas is great but it's rare for a team hurting for bigs to trade a big a season after basically using the second pick in the draft to acquire him.

The other name mentioned in this thread, JR Smith, is a much more plausible option. I'd like a move to acquire Smith most likely, but it'd depend on what the Spurs give up.

[timvp]

I know it's a small sample size. Thomas in his greater minutes, approximaately 15 per game is 56th in the league in blocks, not bad not great. If you are going to use per 48 minute stats for Mahinmi, you have to point out that Thomas was third in the NBA last year in blocks per 48 minutes. This season has been an all-around disaster for Thomas but outside of players like Camby and Josh Smith, Thomas has as much shotblocking potential as anyone in the league.


Does he against play and get abused by the better bigs like Brown, Fazekas, etc..I haven't seen him matched up against many primetime bigs. Probably the best matchup I saw him in were the two games he played against Cedric Simmons and Simmons came out looking like slightly the better prospect.

I've never seen Mahinmi shut down a D-League post threat in a one-on-one capacity ... then again, I haven't watched every Toros game this season.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I'm surprised that you'd still take on JR Smith after his showing last playoffs, timvp. The kid has a brain in limbo...

[whottt]

No way does this trade happen. IF Paxon did this trade he'd be down to only 6 or 7 SF on the Bulls roster.



As for Tyrus...this guy has sick skill, not just as a shotblocker, but he gets a lot of steals, rebounds and dunks as well.



One huge problem with him though, he doesn't run back on D, and that's the reason he's been in the doghouse in Chicago for most of the season.

Skiles flat out told him, in person, and in the media, that if he got back on d he'd get on the court, and he still didn't do it.


Bottom line...guy has talent, like the Gerald Wallace or AK47 defensive skill set....but I'm not so sure he'd have a different attitude here than he did in Chicago...Skiles is an over-rated coach but he didn't play any mind games with Thomas, he flat out told him what he needed to do to get minutes...didn't work.

[m33p0]

if he was 6-10 - 6-11 or a pure small forward, i'd love having thomas over for mahinmi and splitter.

[remingtonbo2001]

...And Timvp got me so hyped up on Thomas...

Then I find out from Whottt that Thomas has a hearing problem.

I really thought this was going to work out, I really did.

Thanks for letting me down Timvp. I thought I could count on your analysis.

[AFBlue]

I'm surprised that you'd still take on JR Smith after his showing last playoffs, timvp. The kid has a brain in limbo...

Spurs tried to snag him two years ago and are apparently inquiring about him this time around, so I think the Spurs FO feels like they can develop this kid and change his attitude. They're obviously hard up for his talent....

Smith for Elson and 1st rd pick would be good. And why shouldn't the Nuggets do it, they got him for a second rounder and expiring contract.

[AFBlue]

if he was 6-10 - 6-11 or a pure small forward, i'd love having thomas over for mahinmi and splitter.


He has a 7'3 wingspan and is great at timing his jump. He also has a nose for the ball off the rim. These are things that can't be tought and are his biggest assets at this point.

Height isn't everything. Take a guy like Elson, for example, who has that height and athleticism but does diddly with it.

If the Spurs brought this kid in to block shots and rebound....he'd do it. That's what he's good at. Whether he develops beyond that is the question...

[timvp]

No way does this trade happen. IF Paxon did this trade he'd be down to only 6 or 7 SF on the Bulls roster.



As for Tyrus...this guy has sick skill, not just as a shotblocker, but he gets a lot of steals, rebounds and dunks as well.


One huge problem with him though, he doesn't run back on D, and that's the reason he's been in the doghouse in Chicago for most of the season.

Skiles flat out told him, in person, and in the media, that if he got back on d he'd get on the court, and he still didn't do it.


Bottom line...guy has talent, like the Gerald Wallace or AK47 defensive skill set....but I'm not so sure he'd have a different attitude here than he did in Chicago...Skiles is an over-rated coach but he didn't play any mind games with Thomas, he flat out told him what he needed to do to get minutes...didn't work.This is mostly true, other than the fact that you and others seem to think Thomas is a small forward. Thomas is a power forward and plays almost strictly power forward and center for the Bulls. The only "small forward" thing about Thomas is that he and coaches have said that he could eventually play small forward if he could add a jumper ... but that hasn't happened yet.

And it's true about him clashing with Skiles. But if the Spurs were to avoid every player who has clashed with Skiles, their trade options would be few to none. Even Nocioni clashed with Skiles at times. Supposedly the only player Skiles didn't clash with was Ben Gordon.

Plus, Skiles said the same things about Thomas that Byron Scott said about SJax. Coaches like Skiles and Scott are a totally different breed of coach than Pop. Skiles and Scott are dictators, while Pop is much more of a player's coach than he'd ever admit.

[barbacoataco]

IMO the Spurs should be looking for a SG/SF player who can score. With Finley, Barry and Horry all going down hill, and maybe leaving, the Spurs need some shooting. It seems to me that with Oberto, Duncan, Splitter, Mahinmi and Bonner the Spurs have their bigs for next year.

[m33p0]

He has a 7'3 wingspan and is great at timing his jump. He also has a nose for the ball off the rim. These are things that can't be tought and are his biggest assets at this point.

Height isn't everything. Take a guy like Elson, for example, who has that height and athleticism but does diddly with it.

If the Spurs brought this kid in to block shots and rebound....he'd do it. That's what he's good at. Whether he develops beyond that is the question...
if that's the case, great! everything else will be a bonus after that.

[AFBlue]

IMO the Spurs should be looking for a SG/SF player who can score. With Finley, Barry and Horry all going down hill, and maybe leaving, the Spurs need some shooting. It seems to me that with Oberto, Duncan, Splitter, Mahinmi and Bonner the Spurs have their bigs for next year.

According to Bucher, the Spurs have also inquired about JR Smith. He's a young, athletic G/F and as I said before.....he seems to have a much better shot to end up here than Thomas.

To be honest, I'd be happy if either rumor came true.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Spurs tried to snag him two years ago and are apparently inquiring about him this time around, so I think the Spurs FO feels like they can develop this kid and change his attitude. They're obviously hard up for his talent....

Smith for Elson and 1st rd pick would be good. And why shouldn't the Nuggets do it, they got him for a second rounder and expiring contract.

Yeah, I knew about last time but not that they are looking at him again. Surprising given his awful flame-out in the first round last year. No doubt he can shoot, and he has hops, but does he have the brain and the discipline to be a Spur? Maybe they want him ala Jax in 2002 - sit him for a year and teach him the ropes. Still, none of it helps the team this year...

[m33p0]

IMO the Spurs should be looking for a SG/SF player who can score. With Finley, Barry and Horry all going down hill, and maybe leaving, the Spurs need some shooting. It seems to me that with Oberto, Duncan, Splitter, Mahinmi and Bonner the Spurs have their bigs for next year.
i have a feeling the FO won't be doing it this year or this coming off season. next season, i think, they'll try to go big with ian and splitter (or whoever it is the FO are able to trade for them) and then hope for the best. the big move will be made in the summer of 2010.

[AFBlue]

Yeah, I knew about last time but not that they are looking at him again. Surprising given his awful flame-out against in the first round last year. No doubt he can shoot, and he has hops, but does he have the brain and the discipline to be a Spur? Maybe they want him ala Jax in 2002 - sit him for a year and teach him the ropes. Still, none of it helps the team this year...

What I like about the possibility of Smith coming over is that there would be seemingly no expectations for him to perform, but that he has the talent to do so.

If he comes over and rides the pine for the rest of the year, the Spurs get a chance to look at him for one more year beyond this one and determine if he's a part of the future.

If he comes over and plays well enough to earn a spot in the rotation, I don't think he'll be on the court to muck it up during crunch time. I have Tony, Manu, and Bruce pegged for all three of those backcourt positions.

Bottom Line: I really don't see a downside to bringing Smith onboard. You can't deny he has real talent and could be a major weapon...even this year.

[whottt]

This is mostly true, other than the fact that you and others seem to think Thomas is a small forward.

He's built like a SF...not a PF. He also has the athleticism usually reserved for the SF.




Thomas is a power forward and plays almost strictly power forward and center for the Bulls. The only "small forward" thing about Thomas is that he and coaches have said that he could eventually play small forward if he could add a jumper ... but that hasn't happened yet.

What you mean is that he's a SF without a J...he's not big enough to play PF in the NBA in the modern era....other than a small ball PF as mentioned.

Yeah...I think he's a SF, and that's what a lot scouts projected him at as well.


And I know he plays PF this season...I have him on two fantasy teams(as you know)....a lot of the reason he plays PF is due to the Bulls PF situation as well.





And it's true about him clashing with Skiles. But if the Spurs were to avoid every player who has clashed with Skiles, their trade options would be few to none. Even Nocioni clashed with Skiles at times. Supposedly the only player Skiles didn't clash with was Ben Gordon.

Plus, Skiles said the same things about Thomas that Byron Scott said about SJax. Coaches like Skiles and Scott are a totally different breed of coach than Pop. Skiles and Scott are dictators, while Pop is much more of a player's coach than he'd ever admit.



I'm not defending Skiles...and I know there's a difference, but this was a case of Skiles being completely clear...


He made a point of emphasizing it in an interview...and said, "if Tyrus wants to know what he can do to get on the court, it's run back on D".


It's not like the Bulls struggle to have a defensive mentality, that's something they do well and did well under Skiles...you know, veterans that hang their hat on D, like that Ben Wallace guy.


I like Thomas, as you no doubt know...he's unquestionably talented, I just see him as a guy who winds up in Pop's doghouse quite a bit.

Maybe playing for the Spurs, whith their commitment to defense and with Duncan will be enough to adjust his attitude...but he was playing for the Bulls and their commitment to defense, and with Ben Wallace...didn't do any good.

[timvp]

...And Timvp got me so hyped up on Thomas...

Then I find out from Whottt that Thomas has a hearing problem.

I really thought this was going to work out, I really did.

Thanks for letting me down Timvp. I thought I could count on your analysis.:lol Nice.


I'm surprised that you'd still take on JR Smith after his showing last playoffs, timvp. The kid has a brain in limbo...That's assuming Smith even has a brain . . .

Seriously though, Smith has superstar talent. He's a great athlete. He has a picture perfect stroke. He can even run point a little bit.

He's just a dumb@ass. I don't think there is a bigger waste of talent in the NBA right now. That said, if Pop could coax some of that talent out of him, he's still young and his ceiling remains extremely high.

His initial role on the Spurs would strictly be as a standstill jumpshooter ... which is something he can do very well. He just doesn't get many chances in Denver because that team sucks at passing.

I wouldn't break the bank to get him but it seems like the Nuggets are all but giving him away at this point.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

What I like about the possibility of Smith coming over is that there would be seemingly no expectations for him to perform, but that he has the talent to do so.

If he comes over and rides the pine for the rest of the year, the Spurs get a chance to look at him for one more year beyond this one and determine if he's a part of the future.

If he comes over and plays well enough to earn a spot in the rotation, I don't think he'll be on the court to muck it up during crunch time. I have Tony, Manu, and Bruce pegged for all three of those backcourt positions.

Bottom Line: I really don't see a downside to bringing Smith onboard. You can't deny he has real talent and could be a major weapon...even this year.

I can see that, and I'm not opposed to the idea, except giving up a first rounder for him. I think it's time we picked and developed a few players from scratch.

It took Udoka, who is a reasonably smart ball player, 3 months to get into the scheme of things here, that's why I think JR would be no help until next year at the earliest, especially given Pop's preference for vets.

Parker/?
Ginobili/JR
Bowen/Udoka
Duncan/Thomas/Bonner
Oberto/Splitter/

I'd be down with that, although I doubt it'll happen.

[Holt's Cat]

Regarding Smith, the Spurs almost have to make a deal before the deadline later this month to refresh their swingman rotation as the free agent swingman crop this summer, particularly in the Spurs' price range, is thin to none.

As for Thomas, for the right price, sure.

[whottt]

As for Thomas, for the right price, sure.


Um...anyone not named Duncan, Manu or Parker would be the right price for this kid....based on talent. That doesn't mean Pop's going to play him though.

[Kori Ellis]

Everyone clashes with Skiles. If the Spurs could get Thomas on the cheap, he's definitely an upgrade. I think he'd be a PF in San Antonio for sure. The Spurs wish they had an athletic power forward with a huge wingspan. I don't care if he's 6'8.

[timvp]

He's built like a SF...not a PF. He also has the athleticism usually reserved for the SF.




What you mean is that he's a SF without a J...he's not big enough to play PF in the NBA in the modern era....other than a small ball PF as mentioned.

Yeah...I think he's a SF, and that's what a lot scouts projected him at as well.


And I know he plays PF this season...I have him on two fantasy teams(as you know)....a lot of the reason he plays PF is due to the Bulls PF situation as well. He measured out at 6-foot-8.5 and with a wingspan of 7-foot-3. That's a pretty big player to say he's "built like a SF".

And it's simply not true that a lot of scouts projected him to be a small forward. Everything pre-draft has Thomas as a power forward.

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/tyrusthomas.asp
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tyrus-Thomas-511/
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/d05/tracker/player?playerId=18951&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fdraft%2fd05%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fplayerId%3d189 51
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=915788

I don't really know where this small forward confusion comes from. I know in one interview around draft time he said that he could see himself playing a Shawn Marion type small forward position one day, but everyone had him pegged as a power forward.

He plays power forward for the Bulls and he'd play power forward for the Spurs. He's half an inch from being 6-foot-9, but his wingspan and athleticism more than make up for that half an inch.

And yes, there's some risk that Thomas wouldn't work in San Antonio and that he'd end up in Pop's doghouse full-time. But that's also the reason why he might be available. If he were a can't-miss prospect who was already living up to his potential, the Spurs wouldn't have a shot at trading for him.

[AFBlue]

Everyone clashes with Skiles. If the Spurs could get Thomas on the cheap, he's definitely an upgrade. I think he'd be a PF in San Antonio for sure. The Spurs wish they had an athletic power forward with a huge wingspan. I don't care if he's 6'8.

Elson + Mahinmi + 1st rd pick works in trade checker....

Still not sure Chicago would bite.

And the height doesn't bother me as much as the weight...220lbs max right?

[Kori Ellis]

Power forwards in the NBA are going to all be 6'8, 230 soon. :lol Thomas is actually a good size for the direction of the league, I think.

[Kori Ellis]

And the height doesn't bother me as much as the weight...220lbs max right?

He weighed 217 prior to the draft. I'm not sure how much he weighs currently. I'm guessing 225-230.

[timvp]

the Spurs almost have to make a deal before the deadline later this month to refresh their swingman rotation as the free agent swingman crop this summer, particularly in the Spurs' price range, is thin to none.This is a little known truth concerning the Spurs right now. It makes a lot more sense and it'd be a lot easier to trade for a future swingman before the trade deadline than to wait until the summer to try to sign one. This summer, there aren't that many good swingman prospects and the ones that are available will likely be overpaid.

The Spurs might have to make a lateral move (or even a slightly negative move) at the trade deadline to add youth to the swingman rotation, or else they could be screwed for the next couple seasons. They'll have the MLE available this summer but trading an expiring contract for a young shooting guard or small forward is a lot easier than signing one on the free agent market. And after this trade deadline, the Spurs might not have another tradeable expiring contract until the winter of 2010.

[whottt]

He measured out at 6-foot-8.5 and with a wingspan of 7-foot-3. That's a pretty big player to say he's "built like a SF".

He's 6'8 and weighs 215....that's a pretty light player to be saying he's built like a PF....since this isn't 1965 anymore.


He's a built like a SF, in fact his height and weight are pretty much the prototypical measurements for a SF.





And it's simply not true that a lot of scouts projected him to be a small forward. Everything pre-draft has Thomas as a power forward.

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/tyrusthomas.asp
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Tyrus-Thomas-511/
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/d05/tracker/player?playerId=18951&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2fdraft%2fd05%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fplayerId%3d189 51
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=915788

I don't really know where this small forward confusion comes from.


Because he's built like a SF...not a PF. In fact they tried him at SF quite a bit last season...




position one day, but everyone had him pegged as a power forward.

He plays power forward for the Bulls and he'd play power forward for the Spurs. He's half an inch from being 6-foot-9, but his wingspan and athleticism more than make up for that half an inch.

He weighs 215...


I don't think you can say for certain he's a PF...if he develops a J he's automatically going to get time at SF.

I could see him pulliing minutes at SF beccause we can use certain PF to spread the defense.


You act like there's a hard and fast line...and there really isn't anymore, when I say the Bulls have 45 SF, I am including several guys that don't play SF but have a similar height/weight.


And yes, there's some risk that Thomas wouldn't work in San Antonio and that he'd end up in Pop's doghouse full-time. But that's also the reason why he might be available. If he were a can't-miss prospect who was already living up to his potential, the Spurs wouldn't have a shot at trading for him.

Whatever flips your switch...if it happens we'll see what happens. It's not like Pop has mastered the art of breaking through to younger players...he's done it a couple of times, he's also not done it a couple of times.



But the reason people are saying this guy is a PF, is for one reason and one reason only, because he doesn't have any range on his shot.....how many 20 years olds do?


Physically, athletically, he is almost the prototypical SF.

[whottt]

Power forwards in the NBA are going to all be 6'8, 230 soon. :lol Thomas is actually a good size for the direction of the league, I think.



Sure...if you like losing to the Spurs in the playoffs and getting sodomized by Tim Duncan.

[Kori Ellis]

Sure...if you like losing to the Spurs in the playoffs and getting sodomized by Tim Duncan.

What I'm saying is that over time the centers will all be of the Tim Duncan mold, and power forwards will be smaller and more athletic.

[whottt]

Look...just for the record. I am for giving this a try...Thomas has sick talent.

That said Timvp, the path to basketball hell is fraught with attempts to change a players attitude...

And that includes Pop.


I don't think Pop changed Stephen Jackson attitude...I think Jackson was an aggressive player who wanted to win, and Pop was forced to play him because it was him or Smitty.

I can't think of many other attitude adjustments by Pop, Rasho.

[whottt]

What I'm saying is that over time the centers will all be of the Tim Duncan mold, and power forwards will be smaller and more athletic.

Depends on how many talented big guys are around...there was a dearth of them for a few years, but they are starting to make a comeback. Teams were just playing what was a available...it wasn't that many years ago that the big PF was the elite position in the NBA.

[timvp]

So whottt thinks Thomas weighs less than he did when he was drafted? Okay.

whottt who do you propose the Spurs trade for if they are indeed trying to get younger and more athletic while they still have tradeable assets (expiring contracts)? If you don't like this buy-low prospect, which one do you like?

[whottt]

So whottt thinks Thomas weighs less than he did when he was drafted? Okay.

Still listed as 215...and the dude is still thin and lanky...

I just see him as a SF physically...like out of the Gerald Wallace or AK47 mode...

His shot is bad...but again, the j is usually the worst part of the extra young guys games.









whottt who do you propose the Spurs trade for if they are indeed trying to get younger and more athletic while they still have tradeable assets (expiring contracts)? If you don't like this buy-low prospect, which one do you like?


Hmmm....I'm not against Thomas, I think he's got sick talent.

I'm against the mindset that Pop is just going to fix whatever's wrong with a players attitude. It's definitely something worth discussing.


It's definitely something that the player has to want to do....Pop can't make them change.


Still...it's not like Thomas is a criminal...and with his talent, I don't see many guys on our roster I wouldn't trade for him.

[timvp]

Hmmm....I'm not against Thomas, I think he's got sick talent.

I'm against the mindset that Pop is just going to fix whatever's wrong with a players attitude. It's definitely something worth discussing.Any alternatives you'd like to name that come with a ready-made attitude?

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Love his game.

Everything else aside, I'd love that guy on my team.

[whottt]

Any alternatives you'd like to name that come with a ready-made attitude?


Not really...any time you get a guy capable of putting up 2 blocks and steals per game(and Thomas has that ability)...you don't usually turn that down if the price is expriring contracts and some draft picks. It's worth the gamble....

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Who would the Spurs be potentially giving up for him?

[timvp]

Who would the Spurs be potentially giving up for him?This thread is your friend.

[whottt]

Here is some food for thought though about why the Bulls might do this trade...


Spurs were higher on Splitter and Ian than they were on Scola....I am almost certain the Spurs tried to move Scola to the Bulls at some point and Paxon didn't want to get burned by RC...

Well Scola would have been a great fit on the Bulls...it's too bad they were too stupid to trade for him...

But maybe Paxon regrets not going after Scola and is saying...hell, if that's the guy they didn't like, what's the possible upside for the two guys they are high on?


If not for the way Ian has played this season, I'd see Splitter as the guy they'd be most interested in...not Ian. Then again...I didn't expect Ian to have the scoring punch he's had in the d-league.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

This thread is your friend.

Fuck you for making me go back and reading all of it. :bang

[MaNu4Tres]

About people concerned with Thomas' " bad-attitude" with Skiles. I'm pretty sure if he had an attitude here, Tim would just call him over and just point to them 4 banners that him and the old man Pop created. I'm pretty sure that would humble any " attitude". I'm all over Tyrus Thomas. Elson 1st round pick and our 2nd rounders this year. If it takes Mahimni too, add him as well.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Elson, Mahinmi and a 1st round for Tyrus Thomas?

In a heartbeat. Where do I sign?

[Mr. Body]

Fuck you for making me go back and reading all of it. :bang

Read my Spurs Threads Digest. New issue out now.

[TDMVPDPOY]

if it includes splitter, i decline he trade in a heartbeat

[xmas1997]

if it includes splitter, i decline he trade in a heartbeat
Yeah, I feel the same, but Splitter is probably the guy Chicagos wants!!!!!!

[silk]

I don't know what is paxson interest , but the bulls fan board sure would be okay for splitter , too bad they are not the gm , and even if splitter could be very good for us , i think tyrus could fit even more , we have to trade good to get goods ones.

I'm alos sure they would like shooting and veteran presence , that we could offer.

So even if this trades scenarios are a long-shot , thay are not that far-fetched.

I'm sure most of us on the lakers kwame for gasol trade would have ansewred quit smoking crack...

[urunobili]

Trade scenarios, salary-knowledged members?


http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3032~234&teams=24~4&te=&cash=
:) I think some of you would like this one.

Who to give up or not for the TT Trade:

Splitter: Not in a million years
Elson: Definitively
Bonner: PLEASE
Oberto: Thinkable
Mahimni: Probably
Barry: No. His chemistry has him almost untradeable in the Spurs locker room
Finley: No. I foresee a long future with us either FO or Coaching staff job
Javoktas: Bring it on
Horry: No. Let's be honest, we all want another championship run with him. He has been as bored as he could be seen, will show up crunch time as always.

Please let me know if someone's missing.

[mountainballer]

doesn't Thomas pretty much have the same body and some more compareable abilities Rodman had? (Rodman also measured 6-8 / 210-215)
sure Thomas won't ever be the space eater banger type PF, but who claims that only those players can fit with the Spurs?
I don't see an undersized problem, if he played alongside Tim (or Tiago), who then play Center.
however, from the point of talent and potential, he is to rank far above all players the Spurs might have to sacrifice in a trade for him. (Ian, Tiago, 1st round pick, 2 fist round picks)
yes, his attitude is questionable, so is his BBIQ, but still he would be a player of a talent level, the Spurs would otherwise never get, as long as they are not falling back to lottery level. (which won't happen as long as Tim is around)
getting Thomas is a risk, but a risk with huge upside.
I can see that the Bulls no longer plan with him. they have enough young players and Noah provides most things Thomas also offers.
they won't get a pick as high as they used for him, maybe not even a lottery pick. so maybe they would go for multible less valuable pieces.
like a package of Ian + two 1st rounders. which makes it more or less 3 1st rounders. Thomas is still only 21, if he stayed in College, he would be a Junior this season.
where would he be picked in a deep draft like 2008?
no.12? no.15? no.20? my guess is, he wouldn't be picked higher than 15.
Spurs pick 2008 will likely be a bit better than the years before (22-25?).
it's a bit of a reach, but isn't trading Ian plus two 1st rounders for Thomas like trading 3 late 1st rounders for a no.15 pick. not a totally absurd scenario IMO.

[yavozerb]

Bonner+Elson+Ian for TT+Kryhpa...But, I actually like Bonner so the trade of Ian+Elson+2009 1st rd pick for TT+2008 2nd rd pick would be fine by me..

[pad300]

doesn't Thomas pretty much have the same body and some more compareable abilities Rodman had? (Rodman also measured 6-8 / 210-215)
sure Thomas won't ever be the space eater banger type PF, but who claims that only those players can fit with the Spurs?
I don't see an undersized problem, if he played alongside Tim (or Tiago), who then play Center.
however, from the point of talent and potential, he is to rank far above all players the Spurs might have to sacrifice in a trade for him. (Ian, Tiago, 1st round pick, 2 fist round picks)
yes, his attitude is questionable, so is his BBIQ, but still he would be a player of a talent level, the Spurs would otherwise never get, as long as they are not falling back to lottery level. (which won't happen as long as Tim is around)
getting Thomas is a risk, but a risk with huge upside.
I can see that the Bulls no longer plan with him. they have enough young players and Noah provides most things Thomas also offers.
they won't get a pick as high as they used for him, maybe not even a lottery pick. so maybe they would go for multible less valuable pieces.
like a package of Ian + two 1st rounders. which makes it more or less 3 1st rounders. Thomas is still only 21, if he stayed in College, he would be a Junior this season.
where would he be picked in a deep draft like 2008?
no.12? no.15? no.20? my guess is, he wouldn't be picked higher than 15.
Spurs pick 2008 will likely be a bit better than the years before (22-25?).
it's a bit of a reach, but isn't trading Ian plus two 1st rounders for Thomas like trading 3 late 1st rounders for a no.15 pick. not a totally absurd scenario IMO.

I don't know. I'd be real careful about all the trade scenarios around here. I'd be wary of overpaying. The only way we get him is if he's clearly overstayed his welcome in Chicago, which makes him damaged goods in my eyes. He's a freak athlete, with limited skills, and either a bad basketball IQ or a questionable attitude. I can find a freak athlete with so-so skills rather late in the draft (who has an unkown BBall IQ & attitude). Shawn James - http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shawn-James-361/

He's even roughly the same physical build and size 6'9" & 215lbs. He's also projected to go #56 in the 2008 draft according to draftexpress...

I might go as high as Pick/Prospect + Expiring, but not a lot further. For example, 1 of (Elson/Bonner/Horry), 1 of (08 1st/Mahinmi) and 1 of (08 2nd/Sanikidze) and (filler signed with old rights, see what the lakers did with Aaron Mckie/TE/) for Thomas and Kryapha. (Note that Kryapha is filler for them, he's played 80 minutes on the season, and 230 minutes last year).

[Supergirl]

Spurs trade half their roster for a guy who has no offense (Ben Wallace) and a guy who is too young to be useful (Tyrus Thomas)? I don't think so.

[VaSpursFan]

Spurs trade half their roster for a guy who has no offense (Ben Wallace) and a guy who is too young to be useful (Tyrus Thomas)? I don't think so.

agree...we need another scorer since we are having problems putting point on the board. i think our defensive scheme is fine and the brilliance has shown in bits and pieces this season but what is evident is our inability to score the ball.

[Ghost Writer]

He's raw, but has NBA body and range of tools.

He can block shots and shoot a little.

Consistency has been his downfall.


Needs a kick in the pants.

[timvp]

I like Splitter and all but I'd trade a 28th pick who hasn't played in the NBA for an underachieving player who is younger and was picked 4th. If Thomas were in the 2007 draft, he would have been a top five pick again. Even if Splitter didn't have to stay in Europe another year, I don't think he would have been picked much higher than 15.

[T Park]

Eh, Splitter might be a mistake to give up on.

Tyrus Thomas could possibly be just a smarter version of Stromile Swift.

The Spurs have had their share of lazy unmotivated players.

Devin Brown, JR Reid etc....

[naico]

WTF? some dude drops a name nd san antonio nd now we're all speculating..Shows we're desperate lol.
Thomas would be awesome, but we're not even talkin' about rumours.

[Mr. Body]

I'd think giving up Splitter for Thomas a bad trade, but what do I know. He just seems a smarter ball player who can become a full-time starter in this league. Thomas looks more like a great bench hustle guy or a guy who can fit on a starting lineup tailor-made to cover his deficiencies.

That said, I'd trade Mahinmi + draft pick for Thomas. Not Splitter, though.

[T Park]

Agreed Body.

Im very high on Splitter, iffy on Mahinmi.

If you can turn Mahinmi plus this years pick, into a top 5 lottery selection who could fit in great on this team? That would be a fantastic move.

That all being said, the Spurs won't get this guy.

[MarCowMar]

Do we really want Tyrus Thomas? Sure he's athletic and was a high pick, but he hasn't developed, his attitude has been questioned, and he has no bball IQ. He also will earn a much higher salary than either Mahinmi or Splitter. Does any of that translate to success with Pop, or the NBA for that matter? What's the best he can be potentially? Samuel Dalembert?? No thanks!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tyrus+thomas+lazy
Results 1 - 10 of about 14,200 for tyrus thomas lazy. (0.33 seconds)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tyrus+thomas+bust
Results 1 - 10 of about 20,400 for tyrus thomas bust. (0.27 seconds)

I think we're really underappreciating what we have in Mahinmi and Splitter. Both have shown to be humble and hard-working players who improve steadily. Athletically they are not as freakish as Thomas, but they are a huge step up from what we have now.

Just for comparison :)

Tiago:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tiago+splitter++bust
Results 1 - 10 of about 2,420 for tiago splitter bust. (0.32 seconds)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tiago+splitter++lazy
Results 1 - 10 of about 838 for tiago splitter lazy. (0.23 seconds)


Ian:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ian+mahinmi+bust&btnG=Google+Search
Results 1 - 10 of about 524 for ian mahinmi bust. (0.05 seconds)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ian+mahinmi+lazy
Results 1 - 10 of about 287 for ian mahinmi lazy. (0.26 seconds)



Ian (Marcus Williams adjusted):

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ian+mahinmi+bust+-marcus+-williams
Results 1 - 10 of about 88 for ian mahinmi bust -marcus -williams. (0.11 seconds)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ian+mahinmi+lazy+-marcus+-williams
Results 1 - 10 of about 129 for ian mahinmi lazy -marcus -williams. (0.26 seconds)

[Mr. Body]

Do we really want Tyrus Thomas? Sure he's athletic and was a high pick, but he hasn't developed, his attitude has been questioned, and he has no bball IQ. He also will earn a much higher salary than either Mahinmi or Splitter. Does any of that translate to success with Pop, or the NBA for that matter? What's the best he can be potentially? Samuel Dalembert?? No thanks!


First of all, if Tyrus Thomas is the next Dalembert, sign me up. The guy's having a very nice season.

I'd say Yes, we could use Thomas, but there's a reason the Bulls drafted essentially the same exact player the following year in Joakim Noah. Even if he's a bit taller, Noah can't shoot, either, is a bundle of energy, rebounds, blocks shots.

TT gets 4.4 rpg at only 13 minutes played per, a stat which I'm sure is almost completely driving timvp's advocacy. But why in the world only 13 mpg? He gets nearly a steal and a block per in that time, which looks very good. About 1.4 opg or so, which is less impressive when you realize he only shoots 38%, amazingly bad for a Power Forward.

If you've estimated Mahinmi won't get the job done, then see if you can get Thomas. But I really don't think you're finding any kind of future starter. You're getting - I shit you not - Renaldo Balkman.

[T Park]

I wouldn't mind Renaldo Balkman on the Spurs.

[coachmac87]

hey it could bring back the famous high-low play that timmy and drob did so well

[pad300]

I wouldn't mind Renaldo Balkman on the Spurs.

Hell YEAH!!

A long three who can rebound, plays defense, and doesn't need plays run for him; who gets his points of the offence breaking down and fast breaks. Who brings non-stop energy.

Isn't that pretty much what the doctor has been ordering for the last god knows how long!

[Mr. Body]

Except Thomas doesn't run back on defense and is a bunch more expensive.

[bdictjames]

Except Thomas doesn't run back on defense and is a bunch more expensive.
I thought he was on rookie year salary?

[Mr. Body]

I thought he was on rookie year salary?

Rookie contracts escalate considerably the higher the pick, so Thomas (4th pick) makes $3.5 million per year and Balkman (20th pick) makes $1.23 million per year.

[Mr. Body]

Tyrus Thomas not playing tonight (vs. Sonics)?

I keed, I keed.

But seriously. He's not seen the floor.

[bdictjames]

Tyrus Thomas not playing tonight (vs. Sonics)?

I keed, I keed.

But seriously. He's not seen the floor.
He's not had playing time as much as he had last year. Probably attitude and not-using-his-potential problems. I bet Noah would do the same next year.

[ThomasGranger]

It does seem curious, though, that he got zero minutes. Over the last couple of weeks he was at least getting on the floor.

Edit: never mind, just noticed he has been hurt.

[AFBlue]

It does seem curious, though, that he got zero minutes. Over the last couple of weeks he was at least getting on the floor.

Edit: never mind, just noticed he has been hurt.

I think he's pretty steadily stuck at around 15 minutes when he's not stepping up for someone who is out with injury or when he's out himself. He is clearly behind Wallace, Noah, Joe Smith, and Andres Nocioni for the frontline.

[yavozerb]

Bonner for villanueva and Elson for Kryhpa.. These 2 trades will help this years team and for years to come + we hold on to picks and Ian...

[Ghost Writer]

The thing about players like T. Thomas and S. Swift is that the potential is there...

Sometimes you need the right coach, situation, teammates to draw it out.

[tav1]

The thing about players like T. Thomas and S. Swift is that the potential is there...

Sometimes you need the right coach, situation, teammates to draw it out.

Huge potential is the thing with Thomas. Listening to David Thorpe talk about him, one get the impression that he is as much a 3 as a 4. That too, could really help the Spurs.

I'm one of those that has also lobbied for C. Villanueva. I don't like him nearly as much as Thomas, but I do think that the Spurs should try for both players and play Duncan a little more often at the 5. Of course, that would mean having to trade Horry, but at this point it's totally worth it.

[Ghost Writer]

Plus, I like guys that can block shots.

I look for that and that's why I like Swift and Thomas.

A lot of people look at low-pot players and concentrate on PTS and REB, but shotblocking makes all the difference!

[genomefreak13]

The spurs are done with trade talks. If they have interest with Thomas , they would probably get him when his contract expires. The spurs are not really accustomed to bringing-in young and undeveloped rookies in their lineup. They prefer players who play in another professional league (usually in Europe). Maybe that's why they prefer to get a professional basketball player like Splitter and Mahinmi rather than getting college players from the NCAA.

[ThomasGranger]

Really? You don't think they're still working the phones, trying to move an expiring contract or two?

[Ghost Writer]

"Done with trade talks" implies that they ever seriously started.

[genomefreak13]

Really? You don't think they're still working the phones, trying to move an expiring contract or two?

I don't think so. The spurs isn't really that big on trades. but I can never be really sure. The NBA is a tournament run for profits. If the SA think they can get more by shipping out contracts, I wouldn't blame them.

But as an observer, I believe that no trades shall be made. The team is still competitive. The losses we got in the couple of games are close ones (except for NO).

[genomefreak13]

"Done with trade talks" implies that they ever seriously started.

:toast

[AFBlue]

I don't think so. The spurs isn't really that big on trades. but I can never be really sure. The NBA is a tournament run for profits. If the SA think they can get more by shipping out contracts, I wouldn't blame them.

But as an observer, I believe that no trades shall be made. The team is still competitive. The losses we got in the couple of games are close ones (except for NO).

Spurs aren't big on trades huh?

Why is it that they have made or attempted to make (Barry for JR Smith almost-trade) a deadline deal in each of the last three seasons?

Spurs are not immune to making deals and I would expect them to actively seek to trade one of their lesser role players to shave salary and get out from under the lux tax.

They may or may not be able to pull something off before the deadline, but I guarantee they'll be looking to do something.

If they can get back a young prospect in the process I think it's all the better.

[genomefreak13]

Spurs aren't big on trades huh?

Why is it that they have made or attempted to make (Barry for JR Smith almost-trade) a deadline deal in each of the last three seasons?

Spurs are not immune to making deals and I would expect them to actively seek to trade one of their lesser role players to shave salary and get out from under the lux tax.

They may or may not be able to pull something off before the deadline, but I guarantee they'll be looking to do something.

If they can get back a young prospect in the process I think it's all the better.

Aren't big on trades = trade isn't in the priority list of the spurs. Not immunity from trades.

[SenorSpur]

Plus, I like guys that can block shots.

I look for that and that's why I like Swift and Thomas.

A lot of people look at low-pot players and concentrate on PTS and REB, but shotblocking makes all the difference!


...which translates into a lower opposition FG%. A statistic that Pop is very keen on monitoring.

As of today, the Spurs are allowing opponents to shoot an unheard of 46% FG%, while shooting 45% as a team themselves.

Which may be the first time, during the Duncan years, that the Spurs have ever allowed an opponent to shoot better from the field than they do. They're still a lot of season left, but this is yet another indictment as to how this team has struggled so far this season.

[timvp]

Do we really want Tyrus Thomas? Sure he's athletic and was a high pick, but he hasn't developed, his attitude has been questioned, and he has no bball IQ. He also will earn a much higher salary than either Mahinmi or Splitter. Does any of that translate to success with Pop, or the NBA for that matter? What's the best he can be potentially? Samuel Dalembert?? No thanks!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tyrus+thomas+lazy
Results 1 - 10 of about 14,200 for tyrus thomas lazy. (0.33 seconds)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tyrus+thomas+bust
Results 1 - 10 of about 20,400 for tyrus thomas bust. (0.27 seconds)

I think we're really underappreciating what we have in Mahinmi and Splitter. Both have shown to be humble and hard-working players who improve steadily. Athletically they are not as freakish as Thomas, but they are a huge step up from what we have now.

Just for comparison :)

Tiago:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tiago+splitter++bust
Results 1 - 10 of about 2,420 for tiago splitter bust. (0.32 seconds)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tiago+splitter++lazy
Results 1 - 10 of about 838 for tiago splitter lazy. (0.23 seconds)


Ian:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ian+mahinmi+bust&btnG=Google+Search
Results 1 - 10 of about 524 for ian mahinmi bust. (0.05 seconds)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ian+mahinmi+lazy
Results 1 - 10 of about 287 for ian mahinmi lazy. (0.26 seconds)



Ian (Marcus Williams adjusted):

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ian+mahinmi+bust+-marcus+-williams
Results 1 - 10 of about 88 for ian mahinmi bust -marcus -williams. (0.11 seconds)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ian+mahinmi+lazy+-marcus+-williams
Results 1 - 10 of about 129 for ian mahinmi lazy -marcus -williams. (0.26 seconds):lol Nicely done.

Then again, I wouldn't hire Google to be a basketball scout:

1 - 10 of about 55,200 for tim duncan bust. (0.48 seconds)

[timvp]

I'd say Yes, we could use Thomas, but there's a reason the Bulls drafted essentially the same exact player the following year in Joakim Noah. Even if he's a bit taller, Noah can't shoot, either, is a bundle of energy, rebounds, blocks shots.The Bulls are packed with talent at every position other than center. That's why they went with Noah. Paxson just hasn't figured out that fielding a roster 12 deep in talent doesn't work in the NBA. You need parts that fit together. If Paxson ever figures that out that'd be bad news for the NBA because the Bulls have a lot of good pieces.


TT gets 4.4 rpg at only 13 minutes played per, a stat which I'm sure is almost completely driving timvp's advocacy. But why in the world only 13 mpg?I like his blocks more than I like his rebounding. Well actually, the thing I like most about him is he's possibly a buy low that could become a stud down the road.

And the reason Thomas only plays 13 minutes is the Bulls are stacked with duplicate players. Thomas plays mostly power forward and the Bulls have Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Joakim Noah, Andres Nocioni, Viktor Khryapa and Luol Deng who all can all play power forward. That's a lot of players to beat out for playing time. Especially on a team that is desperately trying to win and for a coach who needs the team to turn it around ASAP if he wants to have the job next year.


If you've estimated Mahinmi won't get the job done, then see if you can get Thomas. But I really don't think you're finding any kind of future starter. You're getting - I shit you not - Renaldo Balkman.Again, Balkman is a small forward. Thomas would be a power forward for the Spurs. They have similar energy levels and Balkman can't shoot either but he'd have to play small forward for the Spurs.

Thomas could help right away in spots because of his shotblocking ability. He's not a good fundamental defender yet but even the Bulls are much better defensively when he's on the court. Down the line is where the potential payoff could be a lot bigger. If Thomas figures it out, he's a guy who could easily average 12 points, 10 rebounds and 3 blocks in the NBA while becoming a defensive force.

I'd take the risk and trade for that type of potential. Mahinmi and Splitter are both good prospects but Thomas is a better prospect who is more likely to become more than a role player.

[SenorSpur]

The Bulls are packed with talent at every position other than center. That's why they went with Noah. Paxson just hasn't figured out that fielding a roster 12 deep in talent doesn't work in the NBA. You need parts that fit together. If Paxson ever figures that out that'd be bad news for the NBA because the Bulls have talent.

I like his blocks more than I like his rebounding. Well actually, the thing I like most about him is he's possibly a buy low that could become a stud down the road.

And the reason Thomas only plays 13 minutes is the Bulls are stacked with duplicate players. Thomas plays mostly power forward and the Bulls have Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Joakim Noah, Andres Nocioni, Viktor Khryapa and Luol Deng who all can all play power forward. That's a lot of players to beat out for playing time. Especially on a team that is desperately trying to win and for a coach who needs the team to turn it around ASAP if he wants to have the job next year.

Again, Balkman is a small forward. Thomas would be a power forward for the Spurs. They have similar energy levels and Balkman can't shoot either but he'd have to play small forward for the Spurs.

Thomas could help right away in spots because of his shotblocking ability. He's not a good fundamental defender yet but even the Bulls are much better defensively when he's on the court. Down the line is where the potential payoff could be a lot bigger. If Thomas figures it out, he's a guy who could easily average 12 points, 10 rebounds and 3 blocks in the NBA while becoming a defensive force.

I'd take the risk and trade for that type of potential. Mahinmi and Splitter are both good prospects but Thomas is a better prospect who is more likely to become more than a role player.

Very salient points. With Thomas' athleticism, I think you'd certainly want to play him at the 4 spot so he could better utilize his skills in the paint and on offense to get cheap baskets. He's not a good enough scorer of defender to play out on the perimeter.

[Ghost Writer]

That's the thing.

We need another shotblocker.

[bigred_225]

When Toni come back healthy , IF spurs get Tyrus Thomas !!!!!!!! quote me!!!!!
(INSTANT CHAMPIONSHIP)

[MoSpur]

When Toni come back healthy , IF spurs get Tyrus Thomas !!!!!!!! quote me!!!!!
(INSTANT CHAMPIONSHIP)


Welcome.

[ThomasGranger]

He looked pretty damn good last night, but Boylan's decision to not only keep him in the game late in the 4th but also to give him the green light to take all those shots (which, by the way, kept the Bulls in the game) suggests to me that they might not be as inclined to move him as many of us would like to think.

[T Park]

Agreed Granger.

Dude looked awesome vs GS last night, his defense and shot blocking would've been a welcome addition.

It was a pipedream anyways.

[Streakyshooter08]

I would really like to see TT in San Antonio. But I really doubt it will happen. As it was stated before I would also like to see another shotblocker next to TD.

[SenorSpur]

He looked pretty damn good last night, but Boylan's decision to not only keep him in the game late in the 4th but also to give him the green light to take all those shots (which, by the way, kept the Bulls in the game) suggests to me that they might not be as inclined to move him as many of us would like to think.

He did look very good

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The Bulls have fielded much more steady trade interest in another Thomas -- Tyrus Thomas -- but word is Chicago won't consider moving him now. Which makes some sense, since it'd be tough to get any kind of value for Thomas (as with most Bulls) because this season has been such a nightmare.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-080209-10

Que dramaqueen comment by Spurs Dynasty 21.

[popshark86]

jermaine Oneal

thats what we need

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

jermaine Oneal

thats what we need
not really