Ben Wallace

[twilo73]

Some have been taking about trading for Wallace and I'm little by little getting on that bandwagon given that he would really, really give us a defensive presence at center... that could go a long way to help us win again. Problem is we would have to give up way too many players to get him and I want to keep Finley and/or Barry as shooters for the play offs.

Would Chicago ask for a lot or would they just be happy to get him off the books?

Thoughts?

[J.T.]

Holt will take one look at Ben's contract and pass for a cheaper player.

[twilo73]

Holt will take one look at Ben's contract and pass for a cheaper player.

Who? I really think that pearing up Duncan with a legit center is a priority if we are going to win this year... defense, defense, defense.

[ChumpDumper]

The wheels are already coming off.

[J.T.]

The lack of a legit center really killed us in 2005 and 2007. Duncan just can't get it done without Robinson, can he.

[timvp]

:lol

I've actually pondered such a trade. It'd look something like:

Spurs Trade
Brent Barry
Francisco Elson
Robert Horry
Jacque Vaughn
Matt Bonner

Bulls Trade
Ben Wallace
Tyrus Thomas
First Round Pick

That trade would be a dream come true for the Bulls because they'd be able to get rid of Wallace's contract. The Spurs have enough flexibility going forward to handle having Wallace's contract on their books.

The problem is that Wallace sucks now. He's done. If this were the Ben Wallace of 2005, I'd probably do this trade. But Wallace is a shell of that player and the thought of him being on the books for two more seasons is scary.

[4lifecowboy]

Wasn't Ben Wallace pondering the Spurs before signing with the Bulls. If they would take Bonner, Berry, and Elson for him I say get'er done.

[VaSpursFan]

i like ben...but i would pass on this deal. i forsee nothing but diminshing returns on that investment...

[Please_dont_ban_me]

At the right price? Sure.

At anything near what he's making right now? Helllls na. He's not even that good anymore.

[SouthernFried]

I don't care how diminished Ben is...if he was on one leg and blind in one eye, he'd outrebound elson by 5 a game.

[T Park]

:lmao

Absolute lunacy wanting him.

Like TIMVP said. Hes beyond done.

[sabar]

Way too expensive. Oberto gives more "center per dollar" than Ben does.

[Budkin]

We simply can't afford another offensively challenged player. Wallace is one of the worst scorers of all time.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Sidenote...

Did somebody tell him he can play offense?

From the few games of his I've seen this year, he's been posting up, driving, and I swear to god I saw him pop out in the corner for a three. And the shot-clock was NOT running down.

[ChumpDumper]

Sidenote...

Did somebody tell him he can play offense?

From the few games of his I've seen this year, he's been posting up, driving, and I swear to god I saw him pop out in the corner for a three. And the shot-clock was NOT running down.Ben always thought he was a complete player.

[wildbill2u]

Next idea! This flailing around for any trade for any one at any salary is getting beyond belief.

If the team craters this year, so be it. Let's go into next year with flexible salary situation and a clear idea of where we can shore up. Emergency panic moves never succeed in the short term and bite you in the ass for the long term.

[tav1]

Wallace's contract would come off in 2010...

[The III]

I'm here in Chicago , and Ben Wallace is done . He is totally lifeless. I think he left his game in Detroit. Pass!

[tav1]

...but his contract still sucks too much.

[timvp]

Let's go into next year with flexible salary situation To be fair to people looking at trades, the Spurs flexibility will be a lot higher before the trade deadline this season. In the summer, the Spurs won't have nearly the same flexibility.

[BacktoBasics]

Some of the Ben is done talk has me wondering if he simply needs to play in a different system. I'd bet we'd see a better Ben on SA than what we are seeing in Chicago. However his contract scares the crap out of me. A #1 and Thomas would help me get over it though.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Some of the Ben is done talk has me wondering if he simply needs to play in a different system. I'd bet we'd see a better Ben on SA than what we are seeing in Chicago. However his contract scares the crap out of me. A #1 and Thomas would help me get over it though.

I agree. He could pull a Randy Moss.

But Moss did it with a huge paycut. Nobody wants to pay Ben's salary.

[Mr. Body]

That was an awful signing the moment Chicago made it. He's making way too much money and is sinking into old age.

[BacktoBasics]

You guys just need to keep in mind that this is what SA always does.

Stay pat and say "we want the offseason flexability" rather than trade for piece now

off season comes

no free agents (unless they're on their last leg) have any interest in signing

Spurs blow money on 2nd or 3rd rate sub just to do something vs. nothing

Player blows and never lives up to expectation

Crap players contract ends

Spurs do nothing because they want offseason flexiblity

Rinse reapeat and so forth.

They should have traded for Mags last season. :sourgrapesmelting:

[T Park]

and they keep winning championships.

Yeah a horrible franchise to root for no question.

[BacktoBasics]

and they keep winning championships.

Yeah a horrible franchise to root for no question.Like always you fail to see the point and go right to redundant sarcasm.

The past is great but at some point you can't ride your current vet core, that point is now. They had Jax, Gino, Parker and others so at some point they've had at least some youth helping win rings in the years past. It hasn't always been about the old movement. They rode the vets last year successfully and now they're a year older and it shows. Its time to make a move. Its always been the draft with this team when its legitimately contending. I'd like to see them make a move for youth and for the future or at least someone in their late 20's. FA doesn't work well for SA at least not lately and not for anything more than a compliment vet for 8 minutes a game.

[Please_dont_ban_me]

Like always you fail to see the point and go right to redundant sarcasm.

The past is great but at some point you can't ride your current vet core, that point is now. They had Jax, Gino, Parker and others so at some point they've had at least some youth helping win rings in the years past. It hasn't always been about the old movement. They rode the vets last year successfully and now they're a year older and it shows. Its time to make a move. Its always been the draft with this team when its legitimately contending. I'd like to see them make a move for youth and for the future or at least someone in their late 20's. FA doesn't work well for SA at least not lately and not for anything more than a compliment vet for 8 minutes a game.

I have to agree with this.

Last thing we need is to pull a Miami.

[T Park]

I'd like to see them make a move for youth and for the future or at least someone in their late 20's. FA doesn't work well for SA at least not lately and not for anything more than a compliment vet for 8 minutes a game.

Good luck finding a team that wants to give the Spurs a young player.

[T Park]

Last thing the Spurs need to do is pull a bob friggen bass.

To trade for trades sake.

[BacktoBasics]

They had a nice offer for Mag last year that they turned down. They could have at least attempted to bring in Barnes. The opportunity is out there.

No one said trade for trades sake but it sure beats signing crap for craps sakes RASHO and so forth.

[T Park]

They had a nice offer for Mag last year that they turned down. They could have at least attempted to bring in Barnes. The opportunity is out there.


Maybe they aren't as high on Barnes as you are?

Personally I trust their decision making. Its worked.

[BacktoBasics]

Maybe they aren't as high on Barnes as you are?

Personally I trust their decision making. Its worked.Its worked?!? They have really really gotten lucky in the draft or we can call it "scouting well" in any event they've failed miserably in the FA market and continuely shop those vets for a freebie. Any youth impact player has been home grown or via draft. Now they have nothing in the youth impact bank so to speak and it shows.

I don't doubt the decision making entirely but you'd be ignorant to think this team actively pursues youth to vets. I'm not saying you can win with youth but a nice blend of youth and vets has always gotten the job done. Its obvious this team need a mid 20's hungry aggressive player ala Jax or Manu 4 years back. They're productive but as they guys age they become the role players that surround the young talent. All I'm saying is that its time for a change. These vets are tired and its nearing the end and in some cases...Horry....the end is now.

[T Park]

in any event they've failed miserably in the FA market

You call Michael FInley and Brent Barry failures?


but you'd be ignorant to think this team actively pursues youth to vets


I guess I must be since your privy to their conversations more than us.


Its obvious this team need a mid 20's hungry aggressive player ala Jax or Manu 4 years back.

They and every team in the playoffs does sure.


All I'm saying is that its time for a change

Okiedokie Barack.



These vets are tired and its nearing the end and in some cases...Horry....the end is now.


:lol

I can't wait to see what you haters are gonna say in the playoffs when Horry drops 8 points 7 rebounds 2 blocked shots and a game clincher.

"WE NEVER DOUBTED YOU ROBERT!!!!"

[temujin]

They should have sent Presti to Chicago.

It is time to activate Presti a la McHale-West.

I'd go for Horry, Javtokas and a 2nd round in 2067 for K Durant.

[SenorSpur]

Wallace? Does everyone forget this guy is being paid upwards of $15mil per year? Couple that along with his declining skills and I wonder why his name keeps coming up on this board?

[SenorSpur]

If Paxson had any brains at all, he wiould've simply retained Tyson Chandler. He's got little offense too, but at least he's a legit 7-footer, can catch an alley oop and has surpassed Wallace as one of the premier rebounders in the league. Not to mention he's considerably younger and cheaper.

[BacktoBasics]

You call Michael FInley and Brent Barry failures?




I guess I must be since your privy to their conversations more than us.



They and every team in the playoffs does sure.



Okiedokie Barack.





:lol

I can't wait to see what you haters are gonna say in the playoffs when Horry drops 8 points 7 rebounds 2 blocked shots and a game clincher.

"WE NEVER DOUBTED YOU ROBERT!!!!"I never said I was a hater. You love to assume and then mouth off. Its why you're one of the most annoying posters ever to grace this board. You're shock value is below average and lacking is substance.

Barry has been benched and shopped since day one and he plays sparingly either when they really need him, he's hot or they're trying to showcase him. He'll go stretches where he's ineffective all the time, also well out of his prime.

Finley I'm fine with but again I'll point out that he's an aging vet on the ass end of his career who signed for nothing. That kind of player in his prime or nearing the end of his prime never signs in SA. Only way to get a Finley type player in his prime is to either draft him or trade for him.

Its not about hate its about seeing some of the youth that has helped this team win championships in the past and really seeing a lack of it this season. What was once our youth are now are vets except an injured Parker. Outside of Parker I'm not sure this Spurs team has anyone in their prime (I consider Manu in the later stages of prime). I don't think they're going to score two All-Stars in the late first or second round any time soon either.

[SAGambler]

Some have been taking about trading for Wallace and I'm little by little getting on that bandwagon given that he would really, really give us a defensive presence at center... that could go a long way to help us win again. Problem is we would have to give up way too many players to get him and I want to keep Finley and/or Barry as shooters for the play offs.

Would Chicago ask for a lot or would they just be happy to get him off the books?

Thoughts?

When Chi gave Wallace that huge contract, I said in a couple of years they would be wondering why the fuck they did it. I'm sure they would love to get him off the books.

Problem with Wallace, he gives you absolutely no offense, plus he isn't the defensive terror he once was.

No way will you ever see him in Silver and Black.

[Deimosfobos]

Ben is done...

[doldrums]

wallace is an offensive and free throw liability. He gives you only defense while we need offense! The Spurs will never do this, please drop nonsense talk.

[BacktoBasics]

wallace is an offensive and free throw liability. He gives you only defense while we need offense! The Spurs will never do this, please drop nonsense talk.After the Shaq move I'm not sure this trade is total nonsense. I'm not an advocate for Wallace and his contract but if it brings in Thomas and a pick I think its a worthy look. Wallace would work a lot better next to Tim and this system over Chicago, he'd certainly be a better compliment than Elson or Oberto. Thomas would be a young player that could bring some youth and energy off the bench. Not a terrible move if done correctly.

[Ghost Writer]

I love Ben Wallace on a team, like, the Suns.

One that can make up for his lack of scoring.

We're not that team and already struggle at the line at the end of games.

[BacktoBasics]

I love Ben Wallace on a team, like, the Suns.

One that can make up for his lack of scoring.

We're not that team and already struggle at the line at the end of games.I 100% agree with you but we wouldn't be giving up scoring for him. Its not as if we're moving 12ppg for his 2. He'd be a better fit next to Tim than Oberto he basically only give this team 5ppg. I'm thinking second chance opportunities. Plus if you get Thomas you get instant hustle and spark from the pine. I wouldn't even consider this unless there is a compliment player involved.

[Ghost Writer]

No, I mean even if you put Wallace on our team right now, we don't have the scoring.

You'd need Duncan and Manu to do all the scoring.

[BacktoBasics]

No, I mean even if you put Wallace on our team right now, we don't have the scoring.

You'd need Duncan and Manu to do all the scoring.Perhaps they should have stepped up a little stronger in the Korver talks.

[Indazone]

With all the NBA teams making moves, just trade Ben Wallace to the Nets. Don't they need a big hulking mass of doo doo in the middle?

[jacobdrj]

In 2001, Ben Wallace put up some fantastic numbers. I argue he should have won the DPOY then, but someone beat him out on the rebounding totals, so he wasn't considered. They had a top tier scorer in Jerry Stackhouse. Yet, the team struggled mightily. In 2002, they became a 50 win team. What changed?

In the beginning of the 2003-2004 season, Ben Wallace again was putting up numbers. But the team was struggling mightily. Playing sub 500 ball for a while. Had a 13 game win streak flanked by a couple of 4 and 5 game loosing streaks. And then, all of a sudden, the Pistons became a defensive juggernaut and went on to win the 2004 NBA title. What changed?

When Ben Wallace went to the Bulls, the team struggled at first, but then went on to beat the defending champion Miami Heat in the 1st round, and took the Pistons to 6 before running out of gas. What changed?

You guys are correct, Ben Wallace is a limited offensive player. And in the wrong system, this weakness can be exploited. But he was (and imho still is) such a good defender, that in the correct system it can not only be masked, but made into a positive.

What changed: In the start of the 01-02 campaign, they acquired Cliff Robinson, arguable the best 1-on-1 post defender in the NBA at that time. In the start of the 03-04 campaign, he was traded away without a replacement. In the middle of that season, they acquired Rasheed Wallace, arguably the SECOND BEST 1-on-1 post defender in the NBA... and a HUGE upgrade on offense. When Ben went to the Bulls, Skiles was debating playing PJ Brown in favor of other players. He finally got it that Ben played better with PJ because he was a half decent 1-on-1 post defender. Ben no longer has a 'side kick' if you want to call it that. He is a help side defender. Period. That is when he is effective. He can't play with others who are also help side defenders, or with players who are 'holes' on defense. On a team like San Antonio with another of the game's great 1-on-1 post defenders, you might see an iron curtain like you haven't seen, well, since the Pistons of 2004...

Keep in mind, since 2004, the careers of Shaq and Ben have been intertwined. If the Shaq-Marion trade goes down, look for some western contender to counter with a trade for Ben, regardless whether or not they know what I have just posted on this message board.

[jacobdrj]

No, I mean even if you put Wallace on our team right now, we don't have the scoring.

You'd need Duncan and Manu to do all the scoring.

Ben Wallace does put backs, and his assist numbers are often overlooked.

[Ghost Writer]

You gonna put Bowen, Wallace and Duncan on the floor at the same time in a big spot?


FT%

[jacobdrj]

Hack-A-Shaq doesn't work, unless Shaq's team is the one doing it, while they are ahead.
Historically speaking of course.
Doesn't matter. It shouldn't get that far. Besides, doesn't Timmay (and to an extent Ben) make them when they count?

[Ghost Writer]

Hack-A-Shaq doesn't work, unless Shaq's team is the one doing it, while they are ahead.
Historically speaking of course.
Doesn't matter. It shouldn't get that far. Besides, doesn't Timmay (and to an extent Ben) make them when they count?
No.

I think this team definitely needs a shotblocker, but scoring should be the first priority.

[jacobdrj]

Are you sure? I could have sworn Timmay has made clutch free throws at some point during a championship run... I know Ben has stuck it to a couple of Hack a Shaq attempts.

[Ghost Writer]

Picture Bowen and Wallace on the floor at the same time in a playoff situation where the Spurs need a bucket in the halfcourt.

Do I need to continue?

[SouthernFried]

In the middle of that season, they acquired Rasheed Wallace, arguably the SECOND BEST 1-on-1 post defender in the NBA... and a HUGE upgrade on offense. When Ben went to the Bulls, Skiles was debating playing PJ Brown in favor of other players. He finally got it that Ben played better with PJ because he was a half decent 1-on-1 post defender. Ben no longer has a 'side kick' if you want to call it that. He is a help side defender. Period. That is when he is effective. He can't play with others who are also help side defenders, or with players who are 'holes' on defense. On a team like San Antonio with another of the game's great 1-on-1 post defenders, you might see an iron curtain like you haven't seen, well, since the Pistons of 2004...

This is a brilliant analysis.

And when have we EVER got offense out of our center in the post-Robinson era.

[jacobdrj]

Ben gets a clutch block/Bowen gets a steal: Passes it to Ginobli for a fast break layup.

[BacktoBasics]

The last thing you'd ever want to do is build a team around free throw ability.

[jacobdrj]

Dallas Mavericks - Steve Nash Era...

[SenorSpur]

When Ben Wallace went to the Bulls, the team struggled at first, but then went on to beat the defending champion Miami Heat in the 1st round, and took the Pistons to 6 before running out of gas. What changed?

You guys are correct, Ben Wallace is a limited offensive player. And in the wrong system, this weakness can be exploited. But he was (and imho still is) such a good defender, that in the correct system it can not only be masked, but made into a positive.

What changed: In the start of the 01-02 campaign, they acquired Cliff Robinson, arguable the best 1-on-1 post defender in the NBA at that time. In the start of the 03-04 campaign, he was traded away without a replacement. In the middle of that season, they acquired Rasheed Wallace, arguably the SECOND BEST 1-on-1 post defender in the NBA... and a HUGE upgrade on offense. When Ben went to the Bulls, Skiles was debating playing PJ Brown in favor of other players. He finally got it that Ben played better with PJ because he was a half decent 1-on-1 post defender. Ben no longer has a 'side kick' if you want to call it that. He is a help side defender. Period. That is when he is effective. He can't play with others who are also help side defenders, or with players who are 'holes' on defense. On a team like San Antonio with another of the game's great 1-on-1 post defenders, you might see an iron curtain like you haven't seen, well, since the Pistons of 2004...



You're correct. In fact, Ben pretty much supports your point by campaigning for the following lineup change:

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/50730/20080206/bulls_wallace_wants_to_be_surrounded_by_height/

Bulls' Wallace Wants To Be Surrounded By Height
February 6, 2008 - 6:44 am

Chicago Tribune -
According to the Chicago Tribune, Ben Wallace was campaigning for rookie big man Aaron Gray to get more minutes for the Bulls, saying that having a 7 footer by his side allows him to roam and be more effective.

In Chicago's win in Seattle on Monday, Wallace and Gray played a seven minute stretch together in the second quarter which saw Wallace grab six rebounds, five of them offensive.

"It opens up a lot of things for me," Wallace said. "When you've got a big body out there, they can't leave him and let him roam around. You have to pay attention to him when he's on the floor. That allows me to get lanes where I get to the basket and get rebounds."

[Ghost Writer]

What are you people talking about?

More defenders that can't score or hit FTs.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

[FromWayDowntown]

Dunkers. We need more dunkers.

[Ghost Writer]

Dunkers. We need more dunkers.
That's all Big Ben can do on offense, dummy.

We need players that can do more the defend and hit wide open 3s.

We've got plenty of that already.

[FromWayDowntown]

That's all Big Ben can do on offense, dummy.

We need players that can do more the defend and hit wide open 3s.

We've got plenty of that already.

I'm not clamoring for the Spurs to acquire Ben Wallace.

In a perfect world, though, I'd take Ben Wallace over Stromile Swift any day.

[Fattmac78]

It'll be the hack-a-shaq comes playoff time though! I like the idea because when we play Dallas, Wallace can stick Dirk, an when we play the Suns he can stick Stoudamire! Tim is to slow to stick either one!! :fro

[Ghost Writer]

I'm not clamoring for the Spurs to acquire Ben Wallace.

In a perfect world, though, I'd take Ben Wallace over Stromile Swift any day.
Swift is a cheaper, younger alternative.

But good outside-the-box thinking... you'd rather the former All-Star and Defensive Player of the Year over the young journeyman. Bold take, FWD.

:rolleyes

[FromWayDowntown]

Swift is a cheaper, younger alternative.

But good outside-the-box thinking... you'd rather the former All-Star and Defensive Player of the Year over the young journeyman. Bold take, FWD.

:rolleyes

I'm not trying to be bold.

[Ghost Writer]

Obviously.

Ben Wallace coming for free, too?

[FromWayDowntown]

Obviously.

Ben Wallace coming for free, too?

I don't think Ben Wallace makes much sense for the Spurs.

I'm quarreling with the obsession over journeyman dunkers who can't get minutes on lottery teams.

[Ghost Writer]

I don't think Ben Wallace makes much sense for the Spurs.

I'm quarreling with the obsession over journeyman dunkers who can't get minutes on lottery teams.
Wrong thread.

I'm sorry... the Spurs are known for having the pick of the litter now?


Question.

[Fattmac78]

Ghost writer it seems that everybody looks up to you and respect your opt, so I cant go against the grain! So who do you think we will pick up? (An real men spend time with their fam) Much respect! :fro

[FromWayDowntown]

Wrong thread.

I'm sorry... the Spurs are known for having the pick of the litter now?


Question.

The Spurs are known for filling needs with appropriate players and, in that process, winning at the greatest rate in professional sports. That's true whether they get the pick of the litter or not.

[Ghost Writer]

Ghost writer it seems that everybody looks up to you and respect your opt, so I cant go against the grain! So who do you think we will pick up? (An real men spend time with their fam) Much respect! :fro
Hey, pal.

I am not the greatest family man, so don't get it twisted, but I did need to step away to handle my business. It's not easy doing the right thing. Things are cool and I'm happy to be able to post here again...

I think the Spurs will stand pat. D. Stoudamire was their splashy move.


The Spurs don't make in-season trades unless it's to shed salaries.


FWD acts like we're choosey. We had salary cap room in 2003 and the best we could do was Rasho Nesterovic.

The Spurs are conservative/cheap and appeal to players over 30, so that makes it really tough to trade/sign for younger players with decent contracts.

[FromWayDowntown]

Hey, pal.

I am not the greatest family man, so don't get it twisted, but I did need to step away to handle my business. It's not easy doing the right thing. Things are cool and I'm happy to be able to post here again...

I think the Spurs will stand pat. D. Stoudamire was their splashy move.


The Spurs don't make in-season trades unless it's to shed salaries.


FWD acts like we're choosey. We had salary cap room in 2003 and the best we could do was Rasho Nesterovic.

The Spurs are conservative/cheap and appeal to players over 30, so that makes it really tough to trade/sign for younger players with decent contracts.

No, FWD acts like we're pragmatic -- make a move if it helps the club in some way, whether that's adding a player to morph the roster (ala Nazr Mohammed in 2005) or by sending out a bad deal to create future opportunities.

The Spurs had cap room in 2003 and made a play for both Jason Kidd and Rasho Nesterovic. They got half of what they wanted. And they've won 2 titles since.

[Ghost Writer]

You can't put lipstick on a pig.

Rasho was a last resort.

Nazr filled a need, but it is not clear if he was better than Rose as a player. We also included 2 draft picks.

I challenge you to post the last time the Spurs made an in-season trade where we clearly obtained the better player in exchange for a lesser player and picks or whatever.

I'll make it even simpler.

Name the last time the Spurs ever traded for the better player.

Period.

[ChumpDumper]

Rasho was a last resort.Wrong.

If you are going to continue living in the past for no reason, at least get it right.

[Ghost Writer]

Wrong.

If you are going to continue living in the past for no reason, at least get it right.
If you are going to try and convince me that the Holt-ing Pattern was intended to sign Nesterovic as a priority, you have completely lost it.

Kidd
Brand
J. Oneal
Odom
Olowakandi
Nesterovic


Get a fvcking grip.

[ChumpDumper]

If you are going to try and convince me that the Holt-ing Pattern was intended to sign Nesterovic as a priority, you have completely lost it.

Kidd
Brand
J. Oneal
Odom
Olowakandi
Nesterovic


Get a fvcking grip.Kidd and Nesterovic, cupcake. That was the plan.

[Ghost Writer]

Well, duh.

Nesterovic was not worth mentioning.

The cleared cap space for a stud.

Not Rasho.

[ChumpDumper]

They cleared space for Kidd and Rasho.

It's worth mentioning because that's what they were actually doing.

[FromWayDowntown]

Rasho was a last resort.

Rasho was Pop's first choice to replace DRob (in a summer that was supposed to net both Rasho and Kidd). Pop even went to Slovenia to sign Rasho.


Nazr filled a need, but it is not clear if he was better than Rose as a player. We also included 2 draft picks.

I challenge you to post the last time the Spurs made an in-season trade where we clearly obtained the better player in exchange for a lesser player and picks or whatever.

I'll make it even simpler.

Name the last time the Spurs ever traded for the better player.

Period.

How about the last time the Spurs made a deal that helped the club? Is it a bad trade if two teams trade roughly equal talent, but one team (the team you root for) revamps its roster by trading for something that it didn't have, even if it didn't get over on its trading partner in the deal?

It seems pretty clear to me that (aside from your penchant for revisionist history) the deal to acquire Nazr made a major difference to the Spurs in 2005 and netted them a title. I'd take a trade that improves the team over one that just gets a better player but doesn't make the team better.

[Ghost Writer]

Dude, please.

They may have also wanted a center, but the idea was to clear cap space for a star.

I can't believe we're arguing this.

The Holt-ing Pattern was a failure in that Rasho and Rasho alone was not the plan.

The Spurs can't acquire stars.

You can pretend they choose not to, but I don't think they could if they wanted to.

[FirebatMIV]

Dude, please.

They may have also wanted a center, but the idea was to clear cap space for a star.

I can't believe we're arguing this.

The Holt-ing Pattern was a failure in that Rasho and Rasho alone was not the plan.

The Spurs can't acquire stars.

You can pretend they choose not to, but I don't think they could if they wanted to.

I'm sorry, I wasn't here the first time you posted here, but is this your schtick? Make random claims, make no counterarguments and essentially do as little as possible to support your beliefs. Why not search the Express-News archives for something that says the Spurs' first choice was not Rasho?

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Oberto/Elson/Barry/some 2nd picks for Wallace



Spurs will be confirmed for a 3peat

[Ghost Writer]

I'm sorry, I wasn't here the first time you posted here, but is this your schtick? Make random claims, make no counterarguments and essentially do as little as possible to support your beliefs. Why not search the Express-News archives for something that says the Spurs' first choice was not Rasho?
You are sorry.

I can try to put you in a time machine or implore you to use logic, but I can assure you that 2003 was not the quest for Rasho.

Don't fault me if you can't follow my points.

What don't you get?

The Spurs don't and/or can't sign or trade for superior talent.

The franchise has been successful in getting #1 lottery picks and building around that great fortune with conservative, calculated moves that attempt address weaknesses.

[ChumpDumper]

Oberto/Elson/Barry/some 2nd picks for Wallace



Spurs will be confirmed for a 3peatThat's not even enough salary to get Ben.

Here endeth the thread.

[FromWayDowntown]

The franchise has been successful in getting #1 lottery picks and building around that great fortune with conservative, calculated moves that attempt address weaknesses.

And the problem with that is?

[Ghost Writer]

And the problem with that is?
Um, what happens if we can't get that third all-franchise center with the #1 pick?


Or a greedy fan might wonder how many more titles we'd have if the front office went out and got proven talent to play alongside the homegrown players.

[BacktoBasics]

You are sorry.

I can try to put you in a time machine or implore you to use logic, but I can assure you that 2003 was not the quest for Rasho.

Don't fault me if you can't follow my points.

What don't you get?

The Spurs don't and/or can't sign or trade for superior talent.

The franchise has been successful in getting #1 lottery picks and building around that great fortune with conservative, calculated moves that attempt address weaknesses.Ghost Writers point goes without saying. I don't see how you support the Rasho was a move for moves sake point. It was never about getting that guy. It was all about Kidd.

[BacktoBasics]

Um, what happens if we can't get that third all-franchise center with the #1 pick?


Or a greedy fan might wonder how many more titles we'd have if the front office went out and got proven talent to play alongside the homegrown players.
I agree again its as if people don't see that the Spurs landed once in a lifetime players twice. No Timmy no rings is was random lotto luck. You could transplant Tim on most any other team, surround him with aged role players sans the egos and find success.

[spurscenter]

if u can get ben wo losing parker, manu, or duncan, do it

[ChumpDumper]

So which four players do you want to send out to get one guy back?

[Ghost Writer]

I agree again its as if people don't see that the Spurs landed once in a lifetime players twice. No Timmy no rings is was random lotto luck. You could transplant Tim on most any other team, surround him with aged role players sans the egos and find success.
Wow.

BacktoBasics, you are a breath of fresh air.

Thanks.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

Are we trying to have it both ways again?

Win now.

[kskonn]

I agree again its as if people don't see that the Spurs landed once in a lifetime players twice. No Timmy no rings is was random lotto luck. You could transplant Tim on most any other team, surround him with aged role players sans the egos and find success.


This I agree with.

[ChumpDumper]

I agree we should work on getting Duncan's replacement right now!

Tank the season while there is still time!

[Ghost Writer]

I agree we should work on getting Duncan's replacement right now!

Tank the season while there is still time!
C'mon.

I know you homers like to point to all the success and attribute it to shrewd moves and smart draft picks and the like, but face it...

The Spurs got two all-franchise centers with #1 draft picks.

Only a handful of team have done that once, let alone twice.

So excuse the rest of us for getting antsy that the front office doesn't bring in proven starpower ever.

Not only does it make me feel like we could've won more titles, but it doesn't give me a lot of hope for when Duncan retires.

Are we going to become like the Wolves?

[BacktoBasics]

So which four players do you want to send out to get one guy back?Here you go dicking up a perfectly good thread again. NO ONE SAID SEND 4 FOR 1. Ben is nothing more than a piece of getting

1. Young aggressive talent...Thomas
2. Draft pics

Its like "yeah we'll eat Wallace's contract for some potential in another player and a pic. Plus Wallace in the Spurs system > Elson and Oberto combined.

I don't trade straight up for Wallace, there has to be additional motivation.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't understand why the Spurs good drafting and luck in Duncan's case is held against them.

That's how it happened, and the Spurs got their big three stars that way. Others won't be satisfied unless they trade for 12 more stars. That's not how NBA teams work.

Shit -- had we listened to some posters here, we would have traded Parker for Gary Payton. Where would that get us now?

[ChumpDumper]

Here you go dicking up a perfectly good thread again. NO ONE SAID SEND 4 FOR 1. Ben is nothing more than a piece of getting

1. Young aggressive talent...Thomas
2. Draft pics

Its like "yeah we'll eat Wallace's contract for some potential in another player and a pic. Plus Wallace in the Spurs system > Elson and Oberto combined.

I don't trade straight up for Wallace, there has to be additional motivation.Which players are you going to trade? There has to be at least four unless you want to trade Parker or Manu. Go ahead and give us your awesome trade and tell us why Paxson goes for it. That's how these things work.

[BacktoBasics]

I don't understand why the Spurs good drafting and luck in Duncan's case is held against them.

That's how it happened, and the Spurs got their big three stars that way. Others won't be satisfied unless they trade for 12 more stars. That's not how NBA teams work.

Shit -- had we listened to some posters here, we would have traded Parker for Gary Payton. Where would that get us now?You mean to tell me you fully expect this team to continue drafting star players like Gino, Parker, TD, DRob, Elliott and so forth....hell two of those three weren't successful until the third(TD) arrived. You cannot solely survive via the draft and I'm certainly not holding it against them I just know that they have always had this notion to keep the cap clear for FA's and time has proven that they never come regardless of their ability to contend year and year out.

Teams are way more in tune with scouting these days than years before. I really think SA was ahead of their time there. So consider it a success but real long term success is built on the ability to accept change. They can't bank on finding obscure talent in the draft anymore than they can bank on premier FA's coming to SA. Whats left is aquiring talent via trade of expiring deals.

I'm not saying do shit for shits sake but sometimes you have to give to get. Its always been about steal it for nothing or do nothing. I'd like to see them loosen up a bit since the league has evolved and adapted.

[Ghost Writer]

I don't understand why the Spurs good drafting and luck in Duncan's case is held against them.

That's how it happened, and the Spurs got their big three stars that way. Others won't be satisfied unless they trade for 12 more stars. That's not how NBA teams work.

Shit -- had we listened to some posters here, we would have traded Parker for Gary Payton. Where would that get us now?
We probably would have won the title back when we were talking about trading Parker for Payton circa 2001-02. Who knows? Parker was not proven at the time. And we can't predict how we'd move on from Payton or if the Spurs would've changed focus in 2003. We have no idea.

Don't exaggerate, either.

We complainers would be quieted if the front office managed to acquire or retain any star-quality player outside of the draft.

Just one.

[El_Mago]

Artest is still out there, and his contract is not too crazy.

However, his personality might be.

Looks like the Mavericks will make a strong push for J-Kidd.

Ideally, grabbing Artest would be so awesome and help us in so many ways.

His rebounding is good, he can score, outstanding defense, hustles, and will bring an edge this team has lacked since SJax departed.

Yet, he maybe too much of a character for this team to swallow....although, back in the mid 90's the same was said about a Rodman, and a guy named Pop still brought him to town...

[ChumpDumper]

We probably would have won the title back when we were talking about trading Parker for Payton circa 2001-02. Who knows? Parker was not proven at the time. And we can't predict how we'd move on from Payton or if the Spurs would've changed focus in 2003. We have no idea.

Don't exaggerate, either.

We complainers would be quieted if the front office managed to acquire or retain any star-quality player outside of the draft.

Just one.No, you'll never shut up. It's against your nature.

You wanted to trade Parker for Payton. Period.

No exaggeration.

[ChumpDumper]

You mean to tell me you fully expect this team to continue drafting star players like Gino, Parker, TD, DRob, Elliott and so forth....hell two of those three weren't successful until the third(TD) arrived. You cannot solely survive via the draft and I'm certainly not holding it against them I just know that they have always had this notion to keep the cap clear for FA's and time has proven that they never come regardless of their ability to contend year and year out.The cap hasn't been clear for years and won't be for another two year at least. Where have you been all this time?


Teams are way more in tune with scouting these days than years before. I really think SA was ahead of their time there. So consider it a success but real long term success is built on the ability to accept change. They can't bank on finding obscure talent in the draft anymore than they can bank on premier FA's coming to SA. Whats left is aquiring talent via trade of expiring deals. Are you saying the Spurs success this past decade is short term?


I'm not saying do shit for shits sake but sometimes you have to give to get. Its always been about steal it for nothing or do nothing. I'd like to see them loosen up a bit since the league has evolved and adapted.There are more possibilities for Spurs trades this season than there has been in several years. Be happy.

[BacktoBasics]

Which players are you going to trade? There has to be at least four unless you want to trade Parker or Manu. Go ahead and give us your awesome trade and tell us why Paxson goes for it. That's how these things work.Trading four is fine. If it means Wallace, Thomas and a pick. Thats getting two(one shit contract and a up and comer) with a potential prospect for what??? Barry, Elson and filler hell even Bowen we have his failsafe replacement in Ime right :rolleyes .

I'm not saying that deal is on the table I'm saying its worth a nod. Going back to what I've said above they only seem to deal when it means either cap clearance or a steal for nothing. They passed on Mags last year and I'm dissapointed regardless of the championship because look what Barry brings us right here and now. Mags would be a huge lift this season. Thats just one example.

[Ghost Writer]

D@mn right I did.

I'll take the bird in the hand every time.

We didn't have to re-sign Payton at the end of the year, allowing us the flexibility to go after, um, Rasho in 2003.

Stick to the topic...

The Spurs are mostly luck.

Sure, Parker and Ginobili were two great draft picks in the past 8 years. What about the rest? Crap or gone.

Put veterans around your franchise #1 pick and hope for the best.

We'd have more faith if they ever made a move to bring in bonafide talent.

Bonus points if they could retain a blossoming player after they acquired him.

[ChumpDumper]

They passed on Mags last year and I'm dissapointed regardless of the championship Only spurfans could be disappointed with a championship.

[FromWayDowntown]

We complainers would be quieted if the front office managed to acquire or retain any star-quality player outside of the draft.

Just one.

So getting 3 star-quality players through the draft, with only one being a lottery pick, is insufficient?

A team can't really expect to win titles without 4 or 5 star-quality players, I guess.

[ChumpDumper]

D@mn right I did.

I'll take the bird in the hand every time.

We didn't have to re-sign Payton at the end of the year, allowing us the flexibility to go after, um, Rasho in 2003.

Stick to the topic...That is the topic.

You wanted to trade Parker for Payton. That is your way. You want the same players you wanted six years ago. Stromile fucking Swift? That's your answer for everything.


The Spurs are mostly luck.

Sure, Parker and Ginobili were two great draft picks in the past 8 years. What about the rest? Crap or gone.

Put veterans around your franchise #1 pick and hope for the best.Put veterans around your three stars and see what happens.

It's a shame that never ever worked.

A crying shame.

[ChumpDumper]

Bonus points if they could retain a blossoming player after they acquired him.They kept Parker after someone wanted to trade him for Payton.

[BacktoBasics]

The cap hasn't been clear for years and won't be for another two year at least. Where have you been all this time?

Are you saying the Spurs success this past decade is short term?

There are more possibilities for Spurs trades this season than there has been in several years. Be happy.Its not a matter of being happy.

I don't think its short term but its highly indicative of extremely fortunate drafting. The kind of drafting that would be insane to think could be duplicated year in and year out. Each of SA's championships required youth at some point. That youth is missing right now and partner that with role players on their very last leg and you have a formula that begs for change. Seeing as how this team can't land FA's or lacks the cap to do (whichever) and this team in all probability won't draft with as much success (see last two drafts) then next viable move for young talent is to move expiring deals.

Why hold an expiring deal if once it expires you fail to sign a quality FA with the relief? Its always a hope but never materializes.

Kidd, O'Neal, Brand as well as any second tier player and so forth never pan out. Right now those expiring deals are an assest to someone but not much of asset to SA.

[BacktoBasics]

Only spurfans could be disappointed with a championship.The two don't go hand in hand. I was disappoint in the ring I was disappointed at the missed opportunity for talent. I'm not going be so brave as to say "well if they traded Barry for that long 3 they wouldn't have won the ring".

I think the move was a good one and they would have won anyway.

Mincing words like a women seems to be the only argument you have.

[ChumpDumper]

Its not a matter of being happy.Because guys like you will never be happy. You're the guys who start threads whenever some previously unknown guy has a good game. "Jamario Moon? Where was the Spurs FO when this guy was available? They should all be fired!"


I don't think its short term but its highly indicative of extremely fortunate drafting. The kind of drafting that would be insane to think could be duplicated year in and year out.Yeah, it's terrible that we were able to get three stars without having to trade for them.


Why hold an expiring deal if once it expires you fail to sign a quality FA with the relief? Its always a hope but never materializes.

Kidd, O'Neal, Brand as well as any second tier player and so forth never pan out. Right now those expiring deals are an assest to someone but not much of asset to SA.You're bitching about the summer of 2010.

[BacktoBasics]

So Chump you think this team should do nothing and stick with this vet squad for another run?

[ChumpDumper]

The two don't go hand in hand. I was disappoint in the ring I was disappointed at the missed opportunity for talent. I'm not going be so brave as to say "well if they traded Barry for that long 3 they wouldn't have won the ring".

I think the move was a good one and they would have won anyway.

Mincing words like a women seems to be the only argument you have.Looking a gift horse in the mouth is the only argument you seem to have.

[ChumpDumper]

So Chump you think this team should do nothing and stick with this vet squad for another run?Thanks for not reading my other posts, idiot.

[WalterBenitez]

Ben Wallace? come on is there any rule that avoid to get a player younger than 30?

[Ghost Writer]

Relax everyone.

Instead of going all over the place, I'll be more succinct:

Payton for Parker may have backfired, but who knows what the future would hold?

To me at the time, the important thing was to get the aging star for the unproven talent.

I think our front office is more lucky than good.

Duncan and Robinson were #1 picks.

Parker and Ginobili were great selections, but who else is on our team today from the draft?

Who have we ever traded for that is of star-level?

[BacktoBasics]

Because guys like you will never be happy. You're the guys who start threads whenever some previously unknown guy has a good game. "Jamario Moon? Where was the Spurs FO when this guy was available? They should all be fired!"

Yeah, it's terrible that we were able to get three stars without having to trade for them.

You're bitching about the summer of 2010.I've never fucking started a thread about Moon or anything like that. You really fucking spew some ridiculous shit to win an argument. Quote me you stupid fucking whiny asshole. Fucking bump one of my "topics" about firing the staff. Its never fucking happened you fucking tard. Can you not fucking have a normal discussion without turning a cheek like a fucking snobby drag queen who didn't get her diet coke refilled.

I THINK ITS MOTHERFUCKING FANTASTIC THEY DRAFTED WHO THEY DID.

I just think its stupid for you to sit here and tell me "oh yeah stick with drafting superstar talent in the late rounds" because you don't have a fucking clue what pans out and what won't.

I'm not bitching about 2010 or any of the signings that didn't happen I just think that having the asset now could be used pronto rather than hoping a FA will come here because fucking time past has told us differently.

YOU ARE THE DUMBEST FUCKING PERSON I'VE EVER ARGUED WITH. You fucking mix luck up with success, its idiotic.

[ChumpDumper]

I just think its stupid for you to sit here and tell me "oh yeah stick with drafting superstar talent in the late rounds" because you don't have a fucking clue what pans out and what won't.That's not what I said at all. Youj aren't very smart, are you?
I'm not bitching about 2010That's when clearing cap actually matters again. It hasn't mattered the past few years and won't matter for two more.

BTW, the last time it mattered, it allowed us to keep a guy named Manu Ginobili.

What a goddam shame that was.

[Ghost Writer]

Well put, BacktotheBasic.

I agree that it's either totally arrogant or ridiculously naive to suggest that the Spurs' success is much more than two #1 picks.

Parker and Ginobili... again, two nice draft picks, but what about all the other selections.

If the Spurs ever acquired even a moderate star-level player, we'd have no axe to grind.

I'd feel more confident in the 20/10 Plan and life after Duncan.

[BacktoBasics]

That's not what I said at all. Youj aren't very smart, are you?That's when clearing cap actually matters again. It hasn't mattered the past few years and won't matter for two more.

BTW, the last time it mattered, it allowed us to keep a guy named Manu Ginobili.

What a goddam shame that was.

Then what the fuck are you saying? You're arguing this, that and nothing but somehow have some divine point. Whats your fucking point?

Trade don't trade. Free up space for star FA. Draft like gods and surround with aging talent for the next 65 years.

Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing with no purpose. < that gets my vote.

[Ghost Writer]

Please post the name of the last player the Spurs got outside of the draft that was star-quality.

[FromWayDowntown]

Please post the name of the last player the Spurs got outside of the draft that was star-quality.

Please tell me why having 3 star quality players who win championships is insufficient.

[ChumpDumper]

Then what the fuck are you saying?I'm saying the Spurs can make a trade this season. In fact they have fewer things restricting a trade this season than they have had in a long time.

Bitching about the past doesn't change any of that.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm saying the Spurs can make a trade this season. In fact they have fewer things restricting a trade this season than they have had in a long time.

Bitching about the past doesn't change any of that.Then why the fuck are you arguing with me over the idea of making a trade if you agree? I never bitched about the past you have me confused some other poster I'm using the past as an example of making a mistake. To learn from it. A fucking example can we not cite examples from the past or is always going to be considered bitching.

[ChumpDumper]

I never bitched about the pastYou just did in this very thread.

[Ghost Writer]

Please tell me why having 3 star quality players who win championships is insufficient.
Because we could have won more.

Your turn:

What star did the front office ever bring in?

Question.



I am just looking for hope beyond "get lucky again in the draft."

[BacktoBasics]

You just did in this very thread.Pointing out an event that I think was a long term mistake isn't bitching its using the past to make a point while driving my argument. How the fuck do you expect anyone to make a point without referencing past events.

I'm not crying here I'm making points. Stop confusing me with someone who's intention is to complain without reason. I'm sick of you constantly doing that it gets fucking old.

[ChumpDumper]

I sick of your constantly whining about the past and starting threads about Jack and past draft picks. It's way fucking old.

Circumstances are different now.

[BacktoBasics]

I sick of your constantly whining about the past and starting threads about Jack and past draft picks. It's way fucking old.

Circumstances are different now.Bump the thread. I've made no such threads. Matter of fact since you're tired of it bump two or three or four. So I know what you mean.

con·stant (knstnt)
adj.
1. Continually occurring; persistent.
2. Regularly recurring: plagued by constant interruptions.
3. Unchanging in nature, value, or extent; invariable. See Synonyms at continual.
4. Steadfast in purpose, loyalty, or affection; faithful. See Synonyms at faithful.

SO THEY'LL BE MORE THAN ONE.

THERE BETTER BE MORE THAN ONE THREAD. I WANT TO FUCKING SEE WHAT THREADS I'M STARTING TIME AND TIME AGAIN THAT HAVE YOU ANNOYED. BUMP IT CHUMP BUMP THE THREADS.

BUMP A PAST DRAFT PICK THREAD I STARTED PLEASE FUCKING DO YOU IT YOU ARROGANT KNOW IT ALL FUCK.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

Easy on the bolding, bitch.

Sorry I caused a meltdown by not differentiating your argument from Ghost's.

[BacktoBasics]

Whats his excuse going to be for not bumping a thread I've started?

I don't even fucking make threads in this forum very often. I think one in the past calendar year. How the fuck can I be consistantly making bitchy threads about draft picks if I hardly ever post in this forum.

Fucking idiot chump. Bump something already. Show me more than the 1 single thread I've started in the last calendar year.

[ChumpDumper]

Look BtoB, you don't even matter here.

Your argument is the same as Ghost's has been this decade. I'll deal with him because in a few days or weeks he'll pretend he thought of the exact same thing I'm saying now.

Go try to kill a diabetic or something.

[Ghost Writer]

Can I mediate?

Here's my olive branch... perhaps if the front office was not blessed with Robinson and then Duncan, then the urgency for bringing in proven talent would be more pronounced.

Chump, you can't blame people like Back2theBasics and myself for being skeptical cynics.



We all realize this unique opportunity and want the same thing... more titles!

[BacktoBasics]

:lol

Easy on the bolding, bitch.You're as bad as T Pork. You put words in peoples mouths and you spout off about you do this and you do that and have absolutely nothing to fucking back it up. You just bitch to hear yourself bitch.

Go bump more than one thread I've made in the last year. C'mon you're so sick of me making past draft pick threads...I want to see one or four.

There aren't fucking any you stupid arrogant ignorant asshole. Because I haven't made any. You're bitching at me with no validity.

I have made one thread about the Damon signing thats it. Show me more Chump or drop whatever excuse you have.

[ChumpDumper]

Can I mediate?

Here's my olive branch... perhaps if the front office was not blessed with Robinson and then Duncan, then the urgency for bringing in proven talent would be more pronounced.Then most of us wouldn't be fans.

[BacktoBasics]

Look BtoB, you don't even matter here.

Your argument is the same as Ghost's has been this decade.

Go try to kill a diabetic or something.So you make an accusation then bitch about me but refuse to provide evidence of my constant complaining via thread starting.

How fucking worthless and pathetic.

Go on Chump you made your statement now back it up. Show me where I've bitched in the past. Stop dancing around your complaint of me constantly starting threads.

[ChumpDumper]

Meltdown #2You're hysterical like a woman.

Calm down.

[ChumpDumper]

Meltdown #3
I've already said I mixed erroneously attributed your post to Ghost.

Quit crying like girl.

[Ghost Writer]

You two are impossible.

I just want back-to-back championships.

[BacktoBasics]

You're hysterical like a woman.

Calm down.Fuck you. I want to see what threads I've started. You made such a brilliant post about fucking nothing. You made your statement now fucking bump the threads.

Are you admitting that you just ran your mouth without any shred of proof? Are you admitting that no such threads of my starting consisting of me complaining exist. I know you'd be full of excuses its what you do.

You bitch then accuse then backpeddle.

Are you going to bump my complaining threads or are you a liar?

[ChumpDumper]

You two are impossible.

I just want back-to-back championships.
I'll certainly take a trade that helps that.

[BacktoBasics]

You two are impossible.

I just want back-to-back championships.She's impossible Dad. I just wanted to have a normal discussion and she's a fucking liar like always.

[ChumpDumper]

Meltdown #4I made a mistake and said so.

Quit crying or do something to differentiate your argument from Ghost's.

Let the adults talk.

[BacktoBasics]

So when do we have a rational discussion where Chump comes in and accuses people of shit that flat doesn't exist and then prompty backpeddles.

I need something to fill my day tomorrow.

[ChumpDumper]

Continued bitching about resolved issue.
Why are you such an insufferable bitch?

[BacktoBasics]

Why are you such an insufferable bitch?Because I can't fucking stand you. This is your act over and over again and then you have no reason or justification for being a total cock. You blast people you feel are beneath you and then offer no source or reasoning when doing so.

The conversation was fine and adult like. Then you came in high on arrogance rudely accusing, bitching and moaning about what turned out to be false truths and accomplished nothing.

Its pretty regular shit from you.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol I thought that was Ghost's post. The response was completely in line with how we've interacted for the past five years.

I'm sorry you can't handle that. I suppose you want to murder me like you tried murder your coworker.

Now where's that Wallace trade you made?

[BacktoBasics]

:lol I thought that was Ghost's post. The response was completely in line with how we've interacted for the past five years.

I'm sorry you can't handle that. I suppose you want to murder me like you tried murder your coworker.

Now where's that Wallace trade you made? :lol see what assuming gets you.

I guess you can't take a joke either. I'll assume you're one of the ones that actually believed that thread. The PM's were hilarious.

[ChumpDumper]

Eh, who can tell? It's a message board full of strangers. I'm sure I'm more sensitive about diabetes than others.

[ATXSPUR]

I'm all for this trade...but thomas would HAVE to be involved and Big Ben would HAVE to take a HUGE paycut.

[clubalien]

Way too expensive. Oberto gives more "center per dollar" than Ben does.
I am a fan not the clipper owners. I want the player that is better and will make us win.

[clubalien]

I have to agree with this.

Last thing we need is to pull a Miami.

To pull a Miami
is to trade for the best big man to ever play the game, win a chapionship, and have one of the best young superstars in the nba to lead your franchise after you fishing winning with you previous superstar

yes lets not pull a miami, and actual try to win the NBA title while competing for decades untill the next superstart is signed.

[clubalien]

If you are going to try and convince me that the Holt-ing Pattern was intended to sign Nesterovic as a priority, you have completely lost it.

Kidd
Brand
J. Oneal
Odom
Olowakandi
Nesterovic


Get a fvcking grip.
signing him as fast as possible was a priootiy he was only big man that we could afford that was good after locking u kiDD to the max cotract

remmeber kidd to SA was a lock

who else can lay C for cheap

[clubalien]

I agree we should work on getting Duncan's replacement right now!

Tank the season while there is still time!
I thought that is what we are doing now?

[Kamnik]

No thx to this OVERRATED LOCKER ROOM CANCER. :toast

[Ghost Writer]

:lol I thought that was Ghost's post. The response was completely in line with how we've interacted for the past five years.

I'm sorry you can't handle that. I suppose you want to murder me like you tried murder your coworker.

Now where's that Wallace trade you made?
I object to that unfair characterization.

D1ck.



:lol

[jacobdrj]

As an interesting point, yesterday Rasheed Wallace joined Cliff Robinson as the only players with 1200 or more blocks and 800 or more 3 pointers. Sheed talked very highly of Uncle Cliffy. Actually, Cliff had WAY more 3 pointers overall, but it was still an interesting point that sort of reinforces just how similar these 2 were... And how important they were to the Pistons... and in turn, Ben Wallace...