Suns and Heat in Talks of Marion/Shaq Trade

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Shaq for Marion Deal in the works
03:58 PM PST By dmgeist
This is hot off the press and the Suns would get Shaq for Marion and Marcus Banks.

This would make Shaq a better buy with playoff games involved and Marion would be a good short without the opportunity for playoff games to earn.

Here is the link:

The Miami Heat have told Shaquille O'Neal and his representation that they should be prepared for him to be traded in the near future.

Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald reports that Phoenix has discussed sending forward Shawn Marion and point guard Marcus Banks to the Heat in return for O'Neal. Shaq's representatives said they have been made aware that discussions with Phoenix are serious and ongoing, but that a deal was not definite.

Marion can opt out of his contract worth $17.1 million at the end of the season. And if he opts out, the Heat would then have substantial salary cap space this offseason, when potential free agents include Gilbert Arenas, Baron Davis, Elton Brand, Marion, Antawn Jamison, Ron Artest and Corey Maggette. Stay tuned. Feb. 5 - 6:30 pm et
Source: Miami Herald

http://www.protrade.com/content/DisplayArticle.html?sp=S36138457-d446-11dc-a2d0-896376561661

[Mark in Austin]

MIA might want to trade him, but there is no effing way PHX would want him. Set aside the fact that Sarver has ordered Kerr to stay/reduce salaries, how in the hell does a broken down Shaq keep up with the seven seconds or less crew? It takes Shaq seven seconds to to recover from a dunk these days.

[T Park]

Doubt Phoenix does that deal.

If they do, cool, one less perimiter threat to worry about.

[remingtonbo2001]

What would Shaq look like in a Suns uni?

Photoshop?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What would Shaq look like in a Suns uni?

Photoshop?
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/Mr_Bottomtooth/shaq.jpg
?

[sa_kid20]

What would Shaq look like in a Suns uni?


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m160/bobbyt207/shaq.jpg

[MajicMan]

What would Shaq look like in a Suns uni?

Photoshop?
He would look like Oliver Miller.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m160/bobbyt207/shaq.jpg
:lmao

[spurscenter]

i would get shaq

he needs to get out of miami, where there is too much distractions with his divorce there.

he will be great in PHX but would change the whole style of PHX if u ask me.

great move by Miami if they can dump his salary

[T Park]

he will be great in PHX but would change the whole style of PHX if u ask me

Please.

His knees and feet are shot.

Shaq doesnt even play agressive anymore.

[exstatic]

Marion would be a fool to opt out, if traded. He'll never see anything close to $17.1M again. That's why I think this trade has zero chance to go down. If Miami wants out of Shaq's fat deal, they should actually trade for expiring contracts, not hopefully he'll opt outs.

[MajicMan]

Why would he opt out? To get a long term deal. An extra 10 mil next year vs 60-70 long term? You do the math.

[Mark in Austin]

Why would he opt out? To get a long term deal. An extra 10 mil next year vs 60-70 long term? You do the math.

nobody is giving Marion 60-70million.

[hater]

a new book title has just been copyrighted tonight! "17 seconds or more"

[T Park]

Why would he opt out? To get a long term deal. An extra 10 mil next year vs 60-70 long term? You do the math.

No one is gonna give him the same money genius.

hed be lucky to get 5 years at 9 mill per.

[T Park]

Fuckin Udoka...

[exstatic]

Why would he opt out? To get a long term deal. An extra 10 mil next year vs 60-70 long term? You do the math.
Miami won't give it to him. They're looking to SHED salary by 2010 so that they can be a FA player to prevent DWade from bolting. Shawn Marion is a limited player on the wrong side of 30. Only his agent ( and apparently you) thinks he would get anyone's caproom and not an MCE deal.

[missmyzte]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m160/bobbyt207/shaq.jpg

Literally LOL on that one! :lol

[MajicMan]

nobody is giving Marion 60-70million.
bout 10-11 a year? I think that's the most anyone would give him. Not 60-70 then. 3-4 year deal maybe based on his age or 5 the most.

[FromWayDowntown]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m160/bobbyt207/shaq.jpg

That's good.

[exstatic]

bout 10-11 a year? I think that's the most anyone would give him. Not 60-70 then. 3-4 year deal maybe based on his age or 5 the most.
No one is giving him $10M per year. It just isn't happening. There are usually maybe 2-3 teams a year with ANY caproom. Are they going to waste it on a 31 YO fast break finisher with no individual game?

[MajicMan]

It was just a guess...Based on how overpaid some of these players are it was just a ball park guess.

[BonnerDynasty]

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/Mr_Bottomtooth/shaq.jpg
?

hahahahahahahja

[exstatic]

It was just a guess...Based on how overpaid some of these players are it was just a ball park guess.
Those days are over. Teams haven't been overpaying older players other than occasionally their own, like Shaq, which is why I think Miami may have learned their lesson.

See: Wells, Bonzi; Sprewell, Latrell

[The_Game]

nobody is giving Marion 60-70million.

why not? someone gave shard lewis 110 million

[exstatic]

why not? someone gave shard lewis 110 million
Rashard is still in his 20s, and has a more complete game. That was still the worst FA contract in probably 5 years, not counting Shaq.

[spurscenter]

Marion will get his, similar to Rashard Lewis.

Probably Seattle huh

[exstatic]

Marion will get his, similar to Rashard Lewis.

Probably Seattle huh
Seattle offloaded all of their overpaid losers, and are now run by former elements of the Spurs. Next.

Senior Member? WTF is that?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Seattle offloaded all of their overpaid losers, and are now run by former elements of the Spurs. Next.

Senior Member? WTF is that?
:lmao

[duncan228]

Senior Member? WTF is that?

I've wondered what that was about too.

[T Park]

Is this trade for real?


I thought it was just a rumor....

[lrrr]

the Big Ben deal is the worst. At least Rashard can still play, and Shaq did deliver at least one championship to Miami. Any Marion deal will play out like the Wallace signing. A guy who relies purely on athleticism after the age of 30.

[lefty]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m160/bobbyt207/shaq.jpg

:lmao

[Don Quixote]

Sons fan ... I would like to congratulate you on your most prescient and brilliant move. You have picked up Shaquille O'Neill, who I am sure is the missing piece to your quest for that elusive first championship.

Surely, he will anchor the middle and provide much needed scoring, defense, and rebounding, all the while playing well in your up-tempo system.

Again, we congratulate you, and look forward to your championship parade.

[timmy21_4rings]

I would love this trade. Suns will be done for next 4 or 5 years...Nash will come to SA to get his first ring (as Spurs).

[lefty]

I would love this trade. Suns will be done for next 4 or 5 years...Nash will come to SA to get his first ring (as Spurs).

Horry will hit Nash once again; then Rob will realize Steve is now his teammate.
That's right, Spurs' average age will be 47.5

[whottt]

I'd have to say the Suns would be the title favorites if they do this trade.

[T Park]

They would?

How?

They get rid of one of their best rebounders and scorers for a big man that hardly plays and isn't half the player he used to be.

Of course you said the Cavaliers would win the series too.

[Joe Schmoogins]

I agree with Whottt to a degree and think this trade actually improves the Suns. It would no doubt change their style, but we've been mocking them for years for playing a style that has never won anything important. I'd say they are being progressive. If Shaq is motivated, who knows what could happen, I'm not counting him out or ready to label him as washed up. What kind of motivation would he have in PHO? Well obviously the chance to play for a "contender" and get ANOTHER ring. He thinks he's the goat and would love to prove it by leading yet another team to the promised land. And oh yeah, there's also that little thing about him being able to knock out the Lakers and crush Kobe's dreams of getting that first ring in the post-Shaq era.

The bottom line is a motivated shaq is still a force. I hope they pull off this trade. I love the added competition.

[remingtonbo2001]

I'd say they are being progressive. If Shaq is motivated, who knows what could happen, I'm not counting him out or ready to label him as washed up. What kind of motivation would he have in PHO?

To loose weight!

[whottt]

They would?

How?

They get rid of one of their best rebounders and scorers for a big man that hardly plays and isn't half the player he used to be.

Of course you said the Cavaliers would win the series too.


Just shut up.

[Joe Schmoogins]

To loose weight!

maybe they could make a reality tv show out of it or something...

[T Park]

So when Shaq gets in foul trouble, who do they bring in?

Skinner?

Ok, well, they did that anyway.

Now they don't have Marion to pick up the scoring load either.


I don't get this trade what so ever.

[T Park]

Just shut up.

T Park wins.

Thank you come again.

[Joe Schmoogins]

So when Shaq gets in foul trouble, who do they bring in?

Skinner?

Ok, well, they did that anyway.

Now they don't have Marion to pick up the scoring load either.


I don't get this trade what so ever.

imo it usually seems like marion is a non factor against us anyway. I dont have the stats but it seems like Pop does a great job of taking him out of the game.

[T Park]

Hes still a good rebounder and is the only one I know of that could slow Tony Parker down.

Simpel strategy against Phoenix now.

Post up Shaq.

Get him in foul trouble.

Go to Parker time and time again.

[genomefreak13]

The deal means suicide for Phoenix. Why trade one of your leading scorer/rebounder for an injured and non performing player? As all of us know, Shaq ain't the same dominant player as he was before. Phoenix would be out of their mind if they push through this deal. It would be another highway robbery trade like that of Gasol.

In my opinion this is just rumors. Big deals doesn't get through to the press until they are done. They just like to play the "what if " games with NBA fans.

[ajh18]

I understand why Phoenix would consider doing this deal. It's not to win regular season games, or for the long-term. But I do think it helps them out match-up wise in the playoffs.

The Suns already struggled with LA this year, and that was before the Gasol trade. Now, Phoenix would be able to counter an Odom/Gasol/Bynum front line with a Hill (or Diaw)/Amare/Shaq line.

Similarly, Marion never really hurt us, even when Bruce guarded nash. But I think making Tim guard either Shaq or Amare risks getting him in foul trouble., and our 2nd big will be at a pretty big disadvantage.

And Dallas, they have always been soft inside. Shaq and Amare will eat them alive.

Like I said, they'll lose more regular season games. But if Shaq can get even semi-healthy for the playoffs, the Suns could be a tougher out for the top teams.

[T Park]

Shaq doesn't need to be guarded like he used to.

He isn't as agressive as he once was, and is constantly hurt.

[dbreiden83080]

LOL, by all means Suns get rid of a younger more athletic very productive player in his prime, for a 20 mil a year fat guy, who is always hurt and lightyears past his prime. :drunk


Sending Marion away for KG made sense but this, are they trying to lose to the Spurs in the playoffs again???

[ajh18]

Shaq doesn't need to be guarded like he used to.

He isn't as agressive as he once was, and is constantly hurt.


True, but in the past and even this preseason, I remember him scoring fairly easily on Oberto and Elson.

[T Park]

Don't get me wrong.

I understand why they are doing the trade.

It just is flawed reasoning.

[T Park]

True, but in the past and even this preseason, I remember him scoring fairly easily on Oberto and Elson.

Good for him.

Hows he gonna score from the bench after he gets in foul trouble.

Better yet if Stoudamire gets in foul trouble how does score?


The Suns better start working on their halfcourt game.

[duncan228]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Al6TwyI24zVbmXEHiEX42HC8vLYF?slug=ap-heat-oneal&prov=ap&type=lgns

Report: Shaquille O'Neal could be getting traded

By TIM REYNOLDS, AP Sports Writer

MIAMI (AP) -- Shaquille O'Neal is prepared for the Miami Heat to trade him, a confidant of the 14-time All-Star center told The Associated Press on Tuesday night.

O'Neal's associate, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to reveal anything publicly, indicated a move could be imminent.

"Shaq thinks something will happen," the associate said.

The Miami Herald reported earlier Tuesday that the Heat are in "serious and ongoing" trade negotiations with the Phoenix Suns. A Heat spokesman said the team had no comment, and several Suns officials didn't immediately return phone calls from The AP.

The Herald report said the Suns would send Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks to Miami in exchange for O'Neal, who is averaging a career-low 14.2 points and has been sidelined for the past two weeks by a lingering hip injury.

When asked last week about another report that a Shaq trade was possible, Heat coach Pat Riley said, "Not true."

It isn't known if O'Neal -- who has two full seasons remaining after this one on his $100 million, five-year contract -- would welcome a trade.

A four-time NBA champion, O'Neal entered this season talking about how he wanted to win at least one more title, saying his "legacy" wouldn't be complete unless he left the game with at least five rings.

If he's going to get No. 5 this year, he'd have to go elsewhere.

The Heat have lost 19 of their last 20 games and have the NBA's worst record at 9-37 -- meaning the 2006 NBA champions are almost a lock to miss the postseason. Phoenix, meanwhile, entered Tuesday with a 1 1/2 -game lead over New Orleans and Dallas in the race for the best record in the Western Conference.

To this point, O'Neal's year has been largely forgettable.

Miami's record has plummeted, O'Neal is going through a divorce and his scoring average is nearly 11 1/2 points below his 25.6 career mark. He suffered a bruised hip on Dec. 22 and has missed four of the past five weeks while trying to recover.

The team said he was undergoing another MRI exam on Tuesday, presumably to further determine the extent of the injury, and O'Neal didn't speak before leaving Miami's practice. The Heat play at Detroit on Wednesday.

Last Friday, O'Neal said he and Riley have not discussed any trade possibilities.

"He hasn't spoken to me," O'Neal said at the time. "He hasn't talked about it. I've been in the league 15 years. I've seen it all, been through it all. I've just got to sit back."

Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said on his weekly radio show Tuesday night that the story caught him by surprise.

"The trade deadline's coming up so I'm sure there's talk all over the place," he said. "In our day and age now, you make one of those phone calls or answer a phone call everybody in the world knows about it. Other than normal business, I don't know anything that's going on."

Asked if any deal was close, D'Antoni said "No, no, no."

Marion asked to be traded before the season began but has avoided talk of the subject since then. He is set to make $17 million next season, the final year of his contract, but can opt out of the deal and become a free agent.

Suns owner Robert Sarver said two weeks ago that none of the core players would be traded this season.

Neither Sarver nor Phoenix general manager Steve Kerr returned messages left on their cell phones.

AP sports writer Bob Baum in Phoenix contributed to this report.

[wildbill2u]

I agree with Whottt to a degree and think this trade actually improves the Suns. It would no doubt change their style, but we've been mocking them for years for playing a style that has never won anything important. .
Take away the running game--and Marion was a big part of that--and you have what? A half-court team that can't play defense. The Suns only hope was in out scoring teams, much like Doug Moe's old Denver teams.

Fun to watch but it didn't work then either.

[whottt]

Don't get me wrong.

I understand why they are doing the trade.

It just is flawed reasoning.


The only flawed reasoning is on your part....


It fills the Suns biggest need.



Marion puts up the most meaningless stats in NBA history, and he is a perennial playoff no show.


Shaq OTOH, is a 3 time finals MVP who dunks on people...something Steve Nash will make it that much easier for him to do.


Yeah Shaq might get hurt...but if he isn't hurt...it's a problem.


It's not like we can put Bowen on him and take him out of the game...like we do with Marion.



And I don't care if he's not what he once was...he'll be playing alongside two fucking unguardable players in Nash and Amare.

[T Park]

Marion is also the only player who could stay in front of Parker.

Who will guard Parker now?

[T Park]

two fucking unguardable players in Nash

When the hell did he get unguardable?

Bowen can't guard him? :lol

[Mr. Body]

Phoenix will need to get a new coach.

[T Park]

Shaq OTOH, is a 3 time finals MVP who dunks on people

Not anymore.

[whottt]

When the hell did he get unguardable?

Bowen can't guard him? :lol


Um...Steve Nash could have you and me in his starting 5 and he'd still make a game of it against the Spurs. You don't realize how good this guy is offensively.

[dbreiden83080]

The only flawed reasoning is on your part....


It fills the Suns biggest need.



Marion puts up the most meaningless stats in NBA history, and he is a perennial playoff no show.


Shaq OTOH, is a 3 time finals MVP who dunks on people...something Steve Nash will make it that much easier for him to do.


Yeah Shaq might get hurt...but if he isn't hurt...it's a problem.


It's not like we can put Bowen on him and take him out of the game...like we do with Marion.

Are you kidding me here? Shaq has nothing, i say again nothing left. He has no lift anymore, almost zero athletic ability, he can't play good D anymore, is just an above average rebounder these days. If you play him more than 25 min a night, he will be injured and sometimes you can't even push him that much. How does he fit into the Suns style of play?? He is not a force out there at all anymore. What are they going to do, line him up against Timmy and foul out in 10 min or get owned on the block??? He can't guard anyone anymore. This does nothing for the Suns, keeping Marion is far and away the better choice for them. Hell i hate Marion but i know he is a very good player, who is versatile, Shaq is finished. I pray the Suns do that deal.

[whottt]

Not anymore.


And neither is Marion...in fact Marion never was.

[mardigan]

Not anymore.
He still dunks on people, and he would finally give the SUns a guy who can get other teams bigs in constant foul trouble.

[whottt]

Are you kidding me here? Shaq has nothing, i say again nothing left. He has no lift anymore, almost zero athletic ability, he can't play good D anymore, is just an above average rebounder these days. If you play him more than 25 min a night, he will be injured and sometimes you can't even push him that much. How does he fit into the Suns style of play?? He is not a force out there at all anymore. What are they going to do, line him up against Timmy and foul out in 10 min or get owned on the block??? He can't guard anyone anymore. This does nothing for the Suns, keeping Marion is far and away the better choice for them. Hell i hate Marion but i know he is a very good player, who is versatile, Shaq is finished. I pray the Suns do that deal.


Just keep telling yourself that....

[T Park]

He still dunks on people, and he would finally give the SUns a guy who can get other teams bigs in constant foul trouble.

Can't do that sitting from the bench from

A injury

B being in foul trouble himself



And neither is Marion...in fact Marion never was.

He was the only guy to guard Tony parker well.

You haven't answered who gonna guard Parker now.

Nash?

Bring it on.

[T Park]

Shaq couldn't handle the small workload he was getting in Miami.

Now all of a sudden hes gonna go back to 30 mins a night running up and down constantly with the Suns ??!?!

:lol

[whottt]

LOL at people thinking defense is going to be a requirement for Shaq playing on the Suns...


:lmao you guys don't have a whole lot synapses firing do you?

[whottt]

He was the only guy to guard Tony parker well.

You haven't answered who gonna guard Parker now.

Nash?

Bring it on.


And who's going to guard Shaq, and Amare, and Nash, and Diaw, and Grant Hill?


Shaq is still more dominant than Marion is...Marion is, not dominant at all, in any way shape or form.

[mardigan]

ESPN just reported that Marion says he is all for leaving and this deal very much could go through

[whottt]

I can tell you right now Shaq will start playing better because Nash is going to get him the ball....which is what he wants. And for the first time in many years...he'll actually be getting the ball from someone who is setting him up to score.

[mardigan]

And no more Amare playing center wouldnt be a bad thing for the Suns either

[itzsoweezee]

please let this happen!

shaq is done. and marion is the best player on the sons.

[1Parker1]

Wow, Suns are dumber than I thought if they do this trade...listening to ESPN just now, looks like it's very close to happening.

I thought this proposed deal was like a joke or something at first. This may be dumber than the Grizz trading Gasol to the Lakers. Suns do realize Shaq is done...they expect him to make them better defensively?? Since when is Shaq a defensive presence? :lol

[T Park]

:lol

Thats the counter?

WHOS GONNA GUARD SHAQ?

First off, you bring back the hack a shaq as he can't hit shit for free throws.

You run his ass ragged and fuck him over on the pick and rolls.

Big fuckin deal.

Any team that plays big as opposed to SMALL, is a play into the hands of the SPurs.

How many friggen times must it be said?

[dbreiden83080]

Just keep telling yourself that....

You are not giving me or anyone any reasons to think otherwise. All i am seeing is a Marion hater talking trash.

[ancestron]

If the Suns do deal Marion for Shaq, I doubt Phoenix keeps Shaq. Maybe he'll end up in Milwaukee or New York or something :lol

[T Park]

Since when is Shaq a defensive presence?


but but but

HE CAN DUNK!!!

[BillsCarnage]

From another Suns board


The "source" on the RealGM site who started this about a week ago on those boards is taking bets now that this deal goes down. Makes me wonder who he really knows and how close this actually is.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtop...asc&highlight=

[whottt]

If the Suns do deal Marion for Shaq, I doubt Phoenix keeps Shaq. Maybe he'll end up in Milwaukee or New York or something :lol



They'll be doing this deal to win a title this season. It's not like Nash is getting any younger.

[dbreiden83080]

LOL at people thinking defense is going to be a requirement for Shaq playing on the Suns...


:lmao you guys don't have a whole lot synapses firing do you?

Yeah great idea, get rid of a guy who can play defense for someone who no longer can and is always injured, on a team that on a whole plays shitty D. That will get the Suns to the title in a hurry. :drunk

[itzsoweezee]

shaq isn't an offensive force anymore. do you people even watch games?
marion is the best defender and best rebounder on that team.

and how the fuck is phoenix going to play half court? they can't score like that.

[ancestron]

They'll be doing this deal to win a title this season. It's not like Nash is getting any younger.

True, but I seriously just see Shaq bogging down the Suns and making them even weaker in the middle, seeing as how running is not exactly one of Shaq's strengths, and Phoenix's whole philosophy is based on running.

[dbreiden83080]

shaq isn't an offensive force anymore. do you people even watch games?
marion is the best defender and best rebounder on that team.

and how the fuck is phoenix going to play half court? they can't score like that.

Marion is a better offensive player than Shaq

A better defender than Shaq

A better rebounder than Shaq

More athletic than Shaq

Younger than Shaq and far more durable

The upside to this trade for the Suns is what exactly???

[T Park]

Shaq will boost them against some teams, but this really is a move IMO that will kill them.

Shaq doesn't rebound like he used to, and thats the big reason you'd pick him up, and YOU JUST TRADED AWAY YOUR BEST REBOUNDER!!!

Marion I think averages MORE rebounds than SHAQ!!

[lrrr]

So much of the Suns offense comes from beating teams downcourt in transition. they ain't outrunning ANYONE if they have to wait for Shaq. this won't just be a matter of incorporating a new player into the team or chemistry issues, they will have to change the way they play COMPLETELY. And it's not like the Spurs adapting and playing small in stretches. they have to learn to execute in 1/2 courts sets, which they have shown time and again they cannot do to win a series.

[mardigan]

14 points, 8 rebounds, 58 percent shooting from the field, 2 blocks , a plus 16 eff rating, and a steal in under 29 minutes a game on a shitty team who doesnt get him the ball. I still think he has some gas left in the tank.

[peskypesky]

I can tell you right now Shaq will start playing better because Nash is going to get him the ball....which is what he wants. And for the first time in many years...he'll actually be getting the ball from someone who is setting him up to score.

This is the only way this deal makes sense for Phoenix. They have to hope that Nash's superior passing will lead to easy dunks by Shaq. But wait, isn't that what they already get from Amare? Are they just going to put Amare and Shaq on opposite sides of the basket and hope Nash can throw ally-oops to the two of them all night long?

Not sure if going to a completely new strategy half-way through the season makes any sense. Plus, Shaq ain't even playing...his body is breaking down.

[ancestron]

Shaq is still a great player and would kick all of our asses blindfolded with both hands behind his back right now, I just don't see the Big Man fitting in there.
He should go to a more grind-it-out type team imo.

[Joe Schmoogins]

please let this happen!

shaq is done. and marion is the best player on the sons.

best player on the suns??
:clap

[T Park]

14 points, 8 rebounds, 58 percent shooting from the field, 2 blocks , a plus 16 eff rating, and a steal in under 29 minutes a game on a shitty team who doesnt get him the ball

Thats fine and dandy but when hes in foul trouble all the time or his hip is being sutured together thanks to running up and down the court 40 mins a night.

[duncan228]

Plus, Shaq ain't even playing...his body is breaking down.

Rapidly. Before our eyes.
It's an ugly decline.
I really don't think he has much left.

[mardigan]

Thats fine and dandy but when hes in foul trouble all the time or his hip is being sutured together thanks to running up and down the court 40 mins a night.
Im sure they will play him 40 minutes a night.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

14 points, 8 rebounds, 58 percent shooting from the field, 2 blocks , a plus 16 eff rating, and a steal in under 29 minutes a game on a shitty team who doesnt get him the ball. I still think he has some gas left in the tank.

I agree.

Nash, Amare, Shaq, Hill and Diaw would be fun to watch even if it turns out to be a complete train wreck.

[dbreiden83080]

14 points, 8 rebounds, 58 percent shooting from the field, 2 blocks , a plus 16 eff rating, and a steal in under 29 minutes a game on a shitty team who doesnt get him the ball. I still think he has some gas left in the tank.

Like the Suns don't have enough offense as it is. Marion can give them 20 a night and play D, Shaq can maybe give them 20 a night and won't give them much else, assuming he stays on the court. What is the upside here???

[T Park]

Im sure they will play him 40 minutes a night.

You forget D'Antoni coaches the team?

[dbreiden83080]

Rapidly. Before our eyes.
It's an ugly decline.
I really don't think he has much left.

He has next to nothing left. All those years he was arrogant about not being in shape and playing at a high level has officially caught up to him. Showing up to training camp 50 PDS overweight, and playing himself into shape when he was 29 is now costing him big time at 36.

[Joe Schmoogins]

It boils down to this:

If Shaq has something left in the tank-good trade for suns, because they will now have a legit shot at a title..

If Shaq has nothing left in the tank- who cares, the way their team is now they aren't legit title contenders anyway...

Also, Marion is not a dominant player. He is an opportunistic player. Shaq MIGHT still be a dominant player. Maybe the Suns feel like in order to win a title they might have to roll the dice with Shaq.

[ancestron]

Like the Suns don't have enough offense as it is. Marion can give them 20 a night and play D, Shaq can maybe give them 20 a night and won't give them much else, assuming he stays on the court. What is the upside here???

Shaq has a jet with a mini bar, and beach houses all along the coasts of the country?

[T Park]

Joe thats all well in good.

Heres the problem.

They lose alot of rebounding, and alot of defense with this trade.

Period.

[mardigan]

You forget D'Antoni coaches the team?
No one on their team plays that much




I just think the move gives them the ability to play both ways for the first time in a long time. They will still be able to run when Shaq goes to the bench with a small lineup, or be able to match up against big teams and slow it down for the first time ever. Their downfall has always been their ability to only play one speed, this might change things for them. I think its worth a shot, they havent been getting anywhere as it is.


Plus, Marion is going to opt out and leave no matter what, so they might as well try to get something for him now.

[ancestron]

Man...sounds like its gonna happen.

[mardigan]

Joe thats all well in good.

Heres the problem.

They lose alot of rebounding, and alot of defense with this trade.

Period.
They lose 2 rebounds and gain half a block, and lose 2 points scoring wise.
They already have one premeire defender
Marion's loss wouldn't be that big

[dbreiden83080]

Also, Marion is not a dominant player. He is an opportunistic player. Shaq MIGHT still be a dominant player. Maybe the Suns feel like in order to win a title they might have to roll the dice with Shaq.

But what has Shaq shown in the last 2 years to make anyone think he is still at all dominant???

Didn't have a great year last year, didn't do much in the sweep at the hands of the Bulls.

Has been hurt most of the year and mediocre when he has been on the court. I just don't see it.

[T Park]

They already have one premeire defenderMarion's loss wouldn't be that big

:lol

Come back and tell me that after Parker hangs 45 on em and the Spurs win by 15.

[Mr. Body]

Come back and tell me that after Parker hangs 45 on em and the Spurs win by 15.

I don't think Parker could score 45 on anybody.

[T Park]

don't think Parker could score 45 on anybody.

yeah ok.

Him scoring 32 with Marion on him alot of the time in game 1 last year, was just a fluke then.

Right on :tu

[mardigan]

:lol

Come back and tell me that after Parker hangs 45 on em and the Spurs win by 15.
Bell could guard Parker
Nash could guard Bowen
Hill could guard manu
Amare on Oberto
Shaq on Tim
Those arent bad matchups for the Suns



Parker's not hanging 25 on Bell

[ajh18]

A lot of these "Shaq is too old, can't run, can't hold up..." arguments are reminiscent of what people said about Hill...

[dbreiden83080]

Bell could guard Parker
Nash could guard Bowen
Hill could guard manu
Amare on Oberto
Shaq on Tim
Those arent bad matchups for the Suns



Parker's not hanging 25 on Bell

Shaq could not guard Tim 5 years ago, now all he can do is foul out or get owned badly. Hill can guard Manu, yeah maybe 7 years and 4 ankle surgeries ago. Amare's idea of D is to Dunk even harder so his teammates will just think he is trying so hard on offense, D is not neccesarry for him. Nash probably thinks it is a mortal sin to even attempt to play defense.

[T Park]

Bell could guard Parker

Pfft

:lmao

yeah right He doesn't have the foot quickness to guard Parker.


Parker's not hanging 25 on Bell

True hes hanging 30



Hill could guard manu

Please let that happen



Shaq on Tim


Welcome to a 6 point 5 rebound 5 foul night for Der Shaqster.



A lot of these "Shaq is too old, can't run, can't hold up..." arguments are reminiscent of what people said about Hill...

Yeah except uh, Shaq can't run PERIOD.

His FEET ARE SHOT.

[Mr. Body]

Him scoring 32 with Marion on him alot of the time in game 1 last year, was just a fluke then.


45-32 = ?



I like Parker, he's just not a volume scorer like that.

[dbreiden83080]

A lot of these "Shaq is too old, can't run, can't hold up..." arguments are reminiscent of what people said about Hill...

Hill has played fine so far but why give up a better player in Marion to get Shaq?? There is no doubt Shawn is better at this point, none whatsoever. He plays more minutes, better stats, stays far healthier.

[T Park]

45-32 = ?


With no Marion to guard him.......

He can get more points...

[mardigan]

Pfft

:lmao

yeah right He doesn't have the foot quickness to guard Parker.



True hes hanging 30




Please let that happen




Welcome to a 6 point 5 rebound 5 foul night for Der Shaqster.




Yeah except uh, Shaq can't run PERIOD.

His FEET ARE SHOT.
They would have to slow the offense down and play half court while he was in the game. But that doesnt mean they wouldnt be able to do it. They could still go small and run with anyone.

[T Park]

Something the Spurs already did to them.

Shaq added in just makes it easier to play Spurs ball.

[ShoogarBear]

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m160/bobbyt207/shaq.jpgThere are over 100 extraneous posts in this thread after this one.

[mardigan]

The Suns havent won shit with Marion
The Suns werent going to resign marion

Mine as well try something new

[Mr. Body]

With no Marion to guard him.......

He can get more points...

No. My point is he's not that kind of player. His career high I think is 38, which was unusual. You see shooters get hot and hit 45, 50 points in a game, but the way Parker gets his points, he wears out long before he can get there.

[dbreiden83080]

With no Marion to guard him.......

He can get more points...

You take Marion away and Tony is healthy he will kill the Suns much worse than he already does.

[ShoogarBear]

I think Shaq and Amare would have problems staying out of each others' way on offense. Maybe if they had a whole season to figure it out, but it will be tough in just half a season.

And at this stage, losing Marion for Shaq would actually make the Suns weaker on the boards.

On paper, the Suns would come closer to achieving a half court balance by trading Amare for Shaq and keeping Marion. But that makes no sense in the long run.

I just don't see how this trade helps the Suns win THIS year. And Shaq's clock is ticking.

[dbreiden83080]

No. My point is he's not that kind of player. His career high I think is 38, which was unusual. You see shooters get hot and hit 45, 50 points in a game, but the way Parker gets his points, he wears out long before he can get there.

Yeah but he drops 25 a game on the Suns with ease, thanks to their style of play. How does getting rid of a good defender who helps out on him for a guy that won't guard him or really anyone for that matter improve limiting Tony's impact?? It makes it far worse for the Suns to deal with Tony.

[Budkin]

Please sign that fat piece of shit Phoenix!

[Joe Schmoogins]

Joe thats all well in good.

Heres the problem.

They lose alot of rebounding, and alot of defense with this trade.

Period.


I agree they lose a lot in Marion, and no one is sure what exactly they will be getting with Shaq. But the Suns may be thinking they have a better shot at a title gambling on Shaq than sticking with Marion. I think, and I'm sure you'd agree, they've got to do something, because their current strategy has not and will not get them anywhere. Is Shaq the best solution? I don't know, could be, could be a disaster. But it shows the Suns realize change is needed and they are TRYING to doing something to match up better with real contenders. Who knows how this trade will turn out, but I for one would like to see it.

[remingtonbo2001]

Please sign that fat piece of shit Phoenix!

:lol

[Mr. Body]

Yeah but he drops 25 a game on the Suns with ease, thanks to their style of play. How does getting rid of a good defender who helps out on him for a guy that won't guard him or really anyone for that matter improve limiting Tony's impact?? It makes it far worse for the Suns to deal with Tony.

I'm just bored and picking a bone about Parker ever scoring 45 in a game. I do agree taking another obstacle away from guarding him cannot be good for the Suns.

[dbreiden83080]

Please sign that fat piece of shit Phoenix!

LOL, hey i am begging the Suns to do this. If Shaq even gets on the court and stays there he will NOT make them better. Watch he'll come out and have a few good games early, everyone will panic around here, then Shaq will either get hurt or go back to being mediocre and everyone will relax again.

[mardigan]

I'm just bored and picking a bone about Parker ever scoring 45 in a game. I do agree taking another obstacle away from guarding him cannot be good for the Suns.
Even if its a big fat dude who clogs up Tony's primary scoring spot?

[dbreiden83080]

I'm just bored and picking a bone about Parker ever scoring 45 in a game. I do agree taking another obstacle away from guarding him cannot be good for the Suns.

Ah i see

Well i'll say this, if there is one team Tony can drop 45 on it is the Suns, especially if they are packing Marions Bags.

[dbreiden83080]

Even if its a big fat dude who clogs up Tony's primary scoring spot?

You have to be able to move to do that, Shaq only moves when it involves french fries these days.

If the Suns are banking on Shaq being a stopper in middle on D, they are in worse trouble than i thought.

[BillsCarnage]

Word from ESPN is that Shaq is on his way for a physical in the morning. If he passes, i fear this trade is a done deal. EGADS!!

[Whisky Dog]

I think it would make it more interesting in a matchup between the Suns and Spurs. The two things that would make the difference are:

1) How healthy or productive would Shaq be in the playoffs
2) How healthy or productive would Parker be in the playoffs

A healthy TP tears Bell up and possibly picks up fouls on Shaq and drives D'Antoni to abandoning Shaq all together for his preferred run and gun. A healthy and aggressive Shaq could pose problems for TD and TP/Manu on lane penetration. At this point I'd give the higher probablity to Parker being productive over Shaq.

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah, I wanna hear what Sun Fan has to say about this. :hungry::hungry:

[dbreiden83080]

Word from ESPN is that Shaq is on his way for a physical in the morning. If he passes, i fear this trade is a done deal. EGADS!!

Let me ask you as a Suns fan, what do you think the Suns are thinking here?? How is losing Marion for a out of shape, out of prime and always injured Shaq make any sense at all.

[dbreiden83080]

It is almost as if the Suns just don't want to go into the playoffs with the exact same type of team they had last year so they are making a move just to make a move. Not showing much faith in they're guys here if you ask me.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

It is almost as if the Suns just don't want to go into the playoffs with the exact same type of team they had last year so they are making a move just to make a move. Not showing much faith in they're guys here if you ask me.
It's reasonable, with their lack of a post presence. With Al Jefferson and Bynum eating them up. And Spurs always winning out over them.
Too bad it doesn't seem guaranteed it will help them.

Pretty exciting stuff though :spin

[mardigan]

It is almost as if the Suns just don't want to go into the playoffs with the exact same type of team they had last year so they are making a move just to make a move. Not showing much faith in they're guys here if you ask me.
How has getting to the playoffs the last 3 or so years worked out for them?

[dbreiden83080]

How has getting to the playoffs the last 3 or so years worked out for them?

So making a move that makes them less athletic and worse defensively gives them a better shot in the postseason. :drunk

[Xylus]

I feel two completely different emotions right now...

1. On the one hand, trading Shawn Marion changes the complexion of this team. We are no longer a running team, we no longer are an elite 3-point shooting team (we still have great shooters, but not many of them), we lose quite a bit of athleticism and defensive variety.

2. On the other hand, Amare and Shaq... Nash and Shaq... Nash, Amare, and Shaq... extremely intriguing!

As far as I see it, this is a huge risk with potentially big rewards or potentially a big mistake.

[phyzik]

now THIS would make for an entertaining day tomorrow if it happened!


D'Antoni will burst a blood vessel yelling for faster play with Shaq's ass on the court. :madrun

[ludda]

WHAT THE FUCK if this is really happening. This season is getting crazy?? I bet Mavs make a desperation move next.

[mardigan]

Yeah, I wanna hear what Sun Fan has to say about this. :hungry::hungry:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=106285&page=8
Seems spilt

[BillsCarnage]

Let me ask you as a Suns fan, what do you think the Suns are thinking here?? How is losing Marion for a out of shape, out of prime and always injured Shaq make any sense at all.

I've posted in the other threads that i don't like it. This reeks of the Hot Rod deal from way back when.

The Suns are going to sacrifice regular season games for PO basketball and will use the rest of the season to develop a half-court game. How will Amare and Shaq co-exist in the paint??

Way more questions than answers. IF it works, great. But if not, it will go down as one of the worst trades in recent memory.

[BonnerDynasty]

when the fuck is the trade deadline!?

I fear tomorrow I will wake up and Kobe will be going to Dallas.





For Devin George.

[CarefreeAZ]

Yeah, I wanna hear what Sun Fan has to say about this. :hungry::hungry:

On a personal level - I do not think this is a smart move. I think management(Steve Kerr) etc. is so concerned with getting Amare out of the Center spot and to utilize him at his more natural power forward position. For all the little things that Marion does (including most of our rebounding) I think it will be missed and create a whole new set of problems. On one of the sports talk shows today, the host was talking about how the Suns should try to get Marcus Camby or JR Smith from the Nuggets since they are over the Luxury Tax and have been somewhat underachieving. I know they did try to get ahold of Stomile Swift from Mephis but the Suns just have nothing to offer.

[mardigan]

I've posted in the other threads that i don't like it. This reeks of the Hot Rod deal from way back when.

The Suns are going to sacrifice regular season games for PO basketball and will use the rest of the season to develop a half-court game. How will Amare and Shaq co-exist in the paint??

Way more questions than answers. IF it works, great. But if not, it will go down as one of the worst trades in recent memory.
But wasnt it obvious that Marion was gone after this season anyway? If so, I dont see it as as much of a loss.

[ludda]

Classic Knee-Jerk Move.

DAntoni and Co were getting scared of the Lakers.

[Manu-of-steel]

whatever happens, don't worry about phoenix. We got their numbers. Sorry phoenix fans, but you have to accept that as a fact.

[Cry Havoc]

Wow. The Suns will have absolutely no perimeter defense if this happens. We'll pass rings around them until Shaq dies right on the court.

[BillsCarnage]

On a personal level - I do not think this is a smart move. I think management(Steve Kerr) etc. is so concerned with getting Amare out of the Center spot and to utilize him at his more natural power forward position.

If true, it shows how novice Kerr really is. Amare has been playing center for 3yrs. He's not going to magically jump back to PF like nothing ever happened.


On one of the sports talk shows today, the host was talking about how the Suns should try to get Marcus Camby or JR Smith from the Nuggets since they are over the Luxury Tax and have been somewhat underachieving. I know they did try to get ahold of Stomile Swift from Mephis but the Suns just have nothing to offer.

Exactly, they have nothing to offer. Who would they offer to Denver for Camby or Smith - Diaw??? Yeah right. Marion?? The point for Denver would be to get under the cap.

Hey, at least they'll dump Banks' contract. :elephant

[TDMVPDPOY]

there moves dont solve there problems

so whats the point of salary cutting the last few seasons and givin up draft picks, then to turn around and trade for a big mac with 40m remaining on his contract?

suns should do it if they want bruce bowen to defend nash all game, less one overrated player the spurs have to deal with

[ducks]

suns should have traded amare for kg not marion for shaq

[BillsCarnage]

But wasnt it obvious that Marion was gone after this season anyway? If so, I dont see it as as much of a loss.

I thought he would have been gone last summer. From a financial standpoint this screws the Suns more than having Marion and Banks. The Suns, with Marion and Banks, would have had up to 9 players under contract for next season and are already at the tax threshold. With this trade they'll be in the exact same position but with 8 players under contract. How the heck are they going to fill the roster w/o being over the tax???

Unless there are other trades in the works it just doesn't make sense on the court or with salaries.

[ducks]

the only think good for the suns is that in shaq's last year they have a great trade assest a HUGE expiring contract

[ludda]

Whos next on the knee-jerk trade list in the West?
1. Denver
2. Dallas
3. ....

[baseline bum]

Ric Bucher reported on ESPN that the Sons expect Shaq to be a defensive presence, and not someone that they'll run plays for on the other end.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3233072&n8pe6c=2&categoryId=2459788

I guess they forgot Shaq's mentality about D...


If you feed the big dog, he will guard the yard. If you don’t feed him, he’s just going to walk around and get bored, and he ain’t going to do shit.

Still, I'm not for anything that changes who the Sons are. The Spurs have owned them ever since they got Nash, and while I don't expect that to change, it's still an unknown vs. the certainty that they would have gone down to the Spurs again.

[mardigan]

I thought he would have been gone last summer. From a financial standpoint this screws the Suns more than having Marion and Banks. The Suns, with Marion and Banks, would have had up to 9 players under contract for next season and are already at the tax threshold. With this trade they'll be in the exact same position but with 8 players under contract. How the heck are they going to fill the roster w/o being over the tax???

Unless there are other trades in the works it just doesn't make sense on the court or with salaries.
Marion has a player option and there was no way he wasnt going to opt out though.

[baseline bum]

Wow, Phoenix should have just re-signed Joe Johnson if they're going to throw fiscal responsibility into the wind.

[Whisky Dog]

suns should have traded amare for kg not marion for shaq

Minn didn't want just Amare.

[BillsCarnage]

vs. the certainty that they would have gone down to the Spurs again.

The assumption is that they would meet in the PO's this year.. Remember, it is an even numbered year.

[CarefreeAZ]

With our starting 5 we could replace the Spurs as the oldest team:

Shaq - 35
Amare - 26
Hill - 35
Nash - 34
Bell - 29 or 30

might have to change the name of that Jack Macallum book to "27 seconds or less"

[dbreiden83080]

On a side note, should we nominate Marion for ASS-CLOWN OF THE YEAR, since he seems thrilled to death to leave a team that gives him a shot to win the championship for a team that's season has been over since training camp ended??

Well done Shawn, i applaud you're committment to winning. :clap

[mardigan]

Still, I'm not for anything that changes who the Sons are. The Spurs have owned them ever since they got Nash, and while I don't expect that to change, it's still an unknown vs. the certainty that they would have gone down to the Spurs again.
Thats the best take I've read. Marion never scared me and proved he wasnt a difference maker in taking the Suns to the next level.
Any shake up scares me more than the same team the Spurs beat every year.

[mardigan]

On a side note, should we nominate Marion for ASS-CLOWN OF THE YEAR, since he seems thrilled to death to leave a team that gives him a shot to win the championship for a team that's season has been over since training camp ended??

Well done Shawn, i applaud you're committment to winning. :clap
Hey, at least he upgrades from the 3rd to the 2nd option :lol

[ShoogarBear]

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=106285&page=8
Seems spiltI didn't read the whole thread, but most seemed horrified.

[remingtonbo2001]

I know what did this...It was the loss they suffered on Thursday.

If you want to read some intresting stuff, go to phxsuns.net.

Halarious.

[baseline bum]

On a side note, should we nominate Marion for ASS-CLOWN OF THE YEAR, since he seems thrilled to death to leave a team that gives him a shot to win the championship for a team that's season has been over since training camp ended??

Well done Shawn, i applaud you're committment to winning. :clap

I'd be happy as hell to be leaving hot-ass desert Phoenix for the land of hot-ass Cubanas and Puertoriquenas.

[dbreiden83080]

I'd be happy as hell to be leaving hot-ass desert Phoenix for the land of hot-ass Cubanas and Puertoriquenas.

You must subscribe to Marion's Newsletter. :p:

[lrrr]

Let me ask you as a Suns fan, what do you think the Suns are thinking here?? How is losing Marion for a out of shape, out of prime and always injured Shaq make any sense at all.

but, but, but.... the RATINGS!

If nothing else, this makes for one hell of an interesting JOURNEY.

[dbreiden83080]

When the Heat made the deal for Shaq, it made sense. He was not what he had been in his prime but he was still very good and productive. It worked they won the title with him at Center. The Shaq then and now is like night and day though. This is almost like they are making the deal just because his name his Shaquille O'Neal.

Has Kerr been hitting the :drunk hard or something???

[mardigan]

When the Heat made the deal for Shaq, it made sense. He was not what he has been in his prime but he was still very good and productive. It worked they won the title with him at Center. The Shaq then and now is like night and day though. This is almost like they making the deal just because his name his Shaquille O'Neal.

Has Kerr been hitting the :drunk hard or something???
If guys like Shaw, Thomas and Skinner can be difference makers for them, I think even the corpse of Shaq can help a little.

[dbreiden83080]

but, but, but.... the RATINGS!

If nothing else, this makes for one hell of an interesting JOURNEY.

LOL, yeah ratings and fun equal whining and complaining for Suns fans in June when they again are NOT in the finals.

[dbreiden83080]

If guys like Shaw, Thomas and Skinner can be difference makers for them, I think even the corpse of Shaq can help a little.

Corpse for a live body, yeah great deal.

[ludda]

Shaq is not the same guy he was with Miami in 06 and even then he wasn't some brute force that couldn't be contained. Wade carried them most of the way.

If Marion was leaving anways, I gues I see the logic. However, trading your best defender and glue guy for a declining, oft-injured Snaq is very risky.

[mardigan]

Corpse for a live body, yeah great deal.
Yea but its a HUGE corpse

[mardigan]

Gambo: It's A Fact - Shaq Traded To Phoenix
February 5th, 2008 @ 9:12pm by John Gambadoro/Sports 620 KTAR

The Shaquille O'Neal trade to the Phoenix Suns is not a rumor.

In fact, I expect it to happen sometime early afternoon on Wednesday.

O'Neal will be in Phoenix on Wednesday for a physical, according to a Suns team source.

The Suns have moved Wednesday morning's shoot-around, which was originally scheduled at 9:45 a.m., to 4:45 p.m. - hours prior to their contest against the New Orleans Hornets.

The Suns will part ways with Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks and move to a conventional style with O'Neal playing the 5.

The Suns have major concerns about chemistry issues on the team and feel a trade for O'Neal would alleviate those issues, plus give them the post defender they lack.

The money would be a wash this year and next, but the Suns would be on the hook for $20 million in 2009-10 - the final year of O'Neals' contract. There is a belief that the window for Steve Nash to win a championship is down to this year and next and that O'Neal would give the Suns a better chance to win now.

My sources tell me that O'Neal desperately wants to come to Phoenix and will be rejuvenated to have a chance to win again and that the Suns do not have any concerns over his injured hip.

The Suns will not expect O'Neal to dominate as he did in his prime, in fact his minutes will probably hover around 25 per game as they try to keep him fresh for the playoffs and a potential matchup against Tim Duncan and the Spurs.

Just what this means for Mike D'Antoni is anyone's guess.

It is clear that a trade for O'Neal would be a negative indictment on the Suns current style and would suggest that management does not believe the current run-and-gun style can win a title.

Sports 620 KTAR's Craig Grialou contributed to this report
http://www.ktar.com/sports/?nid=126&sid=724522

[dbreiden83080]

If Marion was leaving anways, I gues I see the logic. However, trading your best defender and glue guy for a declining, oft-injured Snaq is very risky.

Marion was leaving but THIS YEAR, which is all that matters he gives you the better chance to win. The Suns need to win a title before Nash gets too old to run the team and this move is not going to help them make it happen. If they won it this year and Marion leaves so what, at least they won it.

[mardigan]

Marion was leaving but THIS YEAR, which is all that matters he gives you the better chance to win. The Suns need to win a title before Nash gets too old to run the team and this move is not going to help them make it happen. If they won it this year and Marion leaves so what, at least they won it.
Yea but if they dont win it all they get nothing for him, then its a lose-lose

[ludda]

Wow so it seems pretty much done. SO WEIRD. First I have to adjust seeing Caveman Gasol threads everyhwere, rooting for Mighty mouse and now watching Snaq huffing and puffing with the Suns.

I expect a big Mavs knee-jerk trade this week. "Everyone's doing it!"

[dbreiden83080]

The Suns will not expect O'Neal to dominate as he did in his prime, in fact his minutes will probably hover around 25 per game as they try to keep him fresh for the playoffs and a potential matchup against Tim Duncan and the Spurs.


LOL, yeah Shaq fouls out in 10 min trying to guard TD or gets owned all night long. Shaq could not guard TD 5 years ago when they were both in their prime, he sure as hell can't guard him now or really anyone for that matter. He is old, slow, always injured and finished.

[ducks]

Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said on his weekly radio show on Sports 620 KTAR in Phoenix Tuesday night that the story caught him by surprise.

"The trade deadline's coming up so I'm sure there's talk all over the place," he said. "In our day and age now, you make one of those phone calls or answer a phone call everybody in the world knows about it. Other than normal business, I don't know anything that's going on."

Asked if any deal was close, D'Antoni said, "No, no, no."

Marion asked to be traded before the season began but has avoided talk of the subject since then. He is set to make $17 million next season, the final year of his contract, but can opt out of the deal and become a free agent.

Suns owner Robert Sarver said two weeks ago that none of the core players would be traded this season.

Neither Sarver nor Phoenix general manager Steve Kerr returned messages left on their cell phones.

AP sports writer Bob Baum in Phoenix contributed to this report.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...ov=ap&type=lgns

[whottt]

First of all...anyone that thinks it's going to take time for Shaq to fit in, does't appreciate the talents of Steve Nash, or the simplicity of the Suns' system. It will take him..no time at all to fit in.


Defense: :lmao The Suns give up fucking 103 PPG...this is the Suns we are talking about.

But since you insist on going there...

Ever watch Marion or Amare try to defend Duncan?

Guaranteed Shaq will do a better job of it than they can, even if all he does is stand there.


Additionally...this trade makes perfect sense for the Suns, because the team they have has been proven to not be a team designed for playoff basketball...

A point just shoved up their butts again, last Thursday.



And finally...

Half court...Nash will be going to either Shaq or Amare...anyone that thinks that option is more scary with Marion replacing Shaq...doesn't know shit about playoff basketball.




As for Shaq's age....

Sure he's old and breaking down...


This is also probably the second or third most talented team he has ever played on, and by far the best point guard he has had. Add in those factors...and that fifth O'brien Trophy in his sights(not to mention a shot at the Lakers)...


The only downside to this trade for the Suns is if Shaq gets hurt....



And Shaq also has the one thing that no one else on the Suns has(outside of Sean Marks) and that's championship experience.



This is not a bad trade...but I'm glad to see so many Spurs fans finally reaching a meeting of the minds with their fellow Suns fans...


GMTA.

[ducks]

suns coach does not moderate anyone minutes
he lets grant hill play over 40 minutes a game
like he will limit shaq's minutes to 20

[T Park]

D'Antoni is gonna become a slow it down 5 down, defenisve coach all of a sudden? :lol

[remingtonbo2001]

Marion approves trade. Not really a shocker.

[dbreiden83080]

Yea but if they dont win it all they get nothing for him, then its a lose-lose

But giving him up makes them worse. What is the upside this year of going forward with an old, always injured, former great player making a ton of money????

[Phenomanul]

Steve Kerr and Del Negro are doing an awesome job for the Spurs.... first they ship out Kurt Thomas and now they get rid of Marion.

Who honestly thinks that Shaq can even guard Duncan now-a-days???

[duncan228]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jack_mccallum/02/05/heat.mccallum/index.html

Worth the risk?
Suns appear willing to take chance on aging O'Neal

One of the last players in the NBA who would seem to fit the run-and-gun style of the Phoenix Suns would be Shaquille O'Neal. Even in his prime, the Miami Heat center, who turns 36 on March 6, was no sprinter, and these are far from his best days.

But sources confirmed that the Miami Herald story about ongoing trade talks between the Suns and the Heat are accurate. No decision has been reached, but in the most likely scenario, O'Neal would be dealt for forward Shawn Marion and backup point guard Marcus Banks.

The money would work under the salary cap. Shaq makes $20 million this season, a figure close to the combined salaries of Marion ($16.4 million this season) and Banks ($3.9 million). A source close to the negotiations said that the Suns are concerned about the final year of Shaq's contract, but that it is not necessarily a deal-breaker (O'Neal is on the books for $20 million in the 2008-09 and '09-10 seasons). Also, Miami probably would want Marion to give his OK, because he can opt out of his contract after the season; the four-time All-Star squelched a potential deal with the Celtics before the season by saying he would opt out.

Sources say that the initial calls were made by Miami and that relations between Shaq and coach Pat Riley have become strained; that is not surprising with two competitive old hands trying to muddle through a campaign that has become downright embarrassing. The Heat are 9-37, including 19 losses in their last 20 games. Shaq has played in only 32 games, and he's currently inactive because of recurring pain in his hip and leg. He's missed an average of 20 games over the past six seasons with a variety of injuries.

Stylistically, there would be some changes in Phoenix and in Miami. Losing Banks, who has never caught on with Suns coach Mike D'Antoni, would be no big deal for Phoenix. But Marion defines the essence of the Suns: a fast-moving, athletic player who is also the most versatile defender on a team not known for defense. Those are qualities desperately needed in Miami.

How would Shaq fit in with the Suns' running offense? Not at all. But as the Suns see it, they seldom run a five-man fast break, and Shaq would be the in-bounder. In the half-court, the high pick-and-rolls run by Steve Nash and current center Amaré Stoudemire would be more effective with a Shaq duck-in always available as an option. Plus, though he is averaging a career-low 14.2 points when he does play, Shaq still commands a double team, which leaves things more open for perimeter shooters such as Nash, Raja Bell, Grant Hill, Leandro Barbosa and even Stoudemire. Finally, as increasingly immobile as he might be, Shaq would be able to defend against the bigger frontcourt players (such as San Antonio's Tim Duncan and new Laker Pau Gasol), a weakness of Stoudemire's.

This would be a big move for the Suns, who not only sell themselves as a get-up-and-go offensive team but also stood at a West-leading 34-14 as of Tuesday. It would be a risky move to take on a center with declining athleticism, even one bound for the Hall of Fame. But they are strongly mulling that very possibility.

[dbreiden83080]

Marion approves trade. Not really a shocker.

Marion is a fucking CLOWN, too. "I want to get paid, the hell with winning, get me out of here" Get a clue you fucking jackass!!

[T Park]

:lol

Miami actually gets better with this trade.

Shit Miami, as bad as the east is, could go on a winning streak now.

[whottt]

Pop just virtually fellated freaking Damon Stoudamire...what do you think he'd do to get Shaq?


Keep laughing.

[Extra Stout]

This is a knee-jerk desperation move by the Suns. They're really going to change course in Febraury and become a totally different team? They just about have to fire D'Antoni immediately now. There's no way he can adjust. Will Kerr coach the team himself?

[T Park]

Finally, as increasingly immobile as he might be, Shaq would be able to defend against the bigger frontcourt players (such as San Antonio's Tim Duncan and new Laker Pau Gasol), a weakness of Stoudemire's.


Pffft

:lmao

The lakers always depended on malone or Horry to guard Duncan, never shaq.

Morons.

[T Park]

No one on the Suns plays that many minutes. Hill only plays 32

Yeah ok :lol

[ShoogarBear]

Let me get this straight:

The Suns are going to pay Shaq $20 million to do less of what they wouldn't pay Kurt Thomas $8 million to do.

[T Park]

what do you think he'd do to get Shaq?


Keep laughing.


That wouldn't be because he would fit in better on the Spurs would it?

:lol

Keep it comin "Cleveland in 4"

[mardigan]

Yeah ok :lol
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=pho

[T Park]

Let me get this straight:

The Suns are going to pay Shaq $20 million to do less of what they wouldn't pay Kurt Thomas $8 million to do.



And gave up Shawn Marion to boot.

[peskypesky]

WHAT THE FUCK if this is really happening. This season is getting crazy?? I bet Mavs make a desperation move next.

Nowitsky for Vince Carter I bet.

[dbreiden83080]

Let me get this straight:

The Suns are going to pay Shaq $20 million to do less of what they wouldn't pay Kurt Thomas $8 million to do.

LOL, you just summed it up right there, that was classic good job. :toast

[T Park]

Mardigan, you all of a sudden believe D'Antoni is a man that "Plays his bench"???

If so I have some ocean front property in arizona to sell ya.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So what is Phoenix going to do? Have Nash pull up at half court to wait on Shaq's fat ass to get down to the low block so they can start their offense with about five seconds left on the shot clock?

[ShoogarBear]

"7 Seconds or Less" now refers to the amount of time Shaq is allowed to spend in the lane.

[mardigan]

Mardigan, you all of a sudden believe D'Antoni is a man that "Plays his bench"???

If so I have some ocean front property in arizona to sell ya.
No, but the stats dont lie.

And how can this not be an improvement over Brian freakin Skinner?

[T Park]

And how can this not be an improvement over Brian freakin Skinner?

Because they gave up the one player that can guard the Suns killer Tony Parker.

[whottt]

Let me get this straight:

The Suns are going to pay Shaq $20 million to do less of what they wouldn't pay Kurt Thomas $8 million to do.




This is Kurt Thomas' career best single season scoring average:

14.0


This is what Shaq is scoring this season:

14.2

[T Park]

No, but the stats dont lie.


Stats do lie.

Watch the Suns next time they are in a tight game.

Nash Stoudamire will all be in the 40s.

[Kori Ellis]

Marion has been disrupting their chemistry and causing problems since Amare got there. They have been offering him up on a regularly basis and very few teams have wanted to take his whiny ass. He's jealous of Nash/Amare, thinks he's the MVP of the team, and constantly complaining about everything from cheerleaders skits to touches.

It's not a surprise to me at all that they would get rid of him. Maybe old/fat Shaq is the best they could get in return.

[ShoogarBear]

So . . . scoring is what the Suns need?

[whottt]

So what is Phoenix going to do? Have Nash pull up at half court to wait on Shaq's fat ass to get down to the low block so they can start their offense with about five seconds left on the shot clock?


They can run their offense through Shaq when Nash is on the bench...something could never do with Marion...since he has the post game of crepe paper.

[T Park]

This is Kurt Thomas' career best single season scoring average:

14.0


This is what Shaq is scoring this season:

14.2

Being option 2.

With Phoenix hes option....

5?

[ducks]

amare is the cancer
the one person by himself
not marion

[ShoogarBear]

Marion has been disrupting their chemistry and causing problems since Amare got there. They have been offering him up on a regularly basis and very few teams have wanted to take his whiny ass. He's jealous of Nash/Amare, thinks he's the MVP of the team, and constantly complaining about everything from cheerleaders skits to touches.
What did he say about cheerleaders' skirts? He might have had a point there.


EDIT: whoops, my bad. :lol

[T Park]

something could never do with Marion...since he has the post game of crepe paper.




Their offense will suffer when Nash goes out STILL.

Period.


Thinking throwing out a 350 pound bad footed Shaq out there is gonna fix that is lunacy.

[whottt]

So . . . scoring is what the Suns need?

Their half court offense is going to be a bitch...


I hate to tell you guys this, but Nash can play half court ball as good as he can run...the fact that he's now going to have Shaq and Amare inside...


You'd have to be insane to want that scenario.


And that's something Marion could never do...Marion is a total garbage scorer/3 point shooter, he is not a dominant offensive player in any way shape or form. And he never has been.

[Kori Ellis]

amare is the cancer
the one person by himself
not marion

Bull. Marion is the one that has been causing chemistry problems for years. Ask Steve Nash or anyone associated wtih the Suns.

[ducks]

marion is upset at always beign in trade talks
I would want out to!

[Kori Ellis]

marion is upset at always beign in trade talks
I would want out to!

He's a whiny bitch. He's been whining and bitching for years. He's amazingly insecure and completely jealous of his teammates.

[T Park]

What did he say about cheerleaders' skirts? He might have had a point there.


I think shes referencing the story from the Suns book.

Wich if true, is one of the wackiest things I've ever heard.

[ducks]

marion wants more credit to yes
but I have read amare is the one that thinks the suns should be his team not nashes team

[Kori Ellis]

What did he say about cheerleaders' skirts? He might have had a point there.


EDIT: whoops, my bad. :lol

He threw a fit because the cheerleaders wore Amare/Nash jerseys in a half time skit and not his.

[T Park]

[QUOTE=whottt]ah ah ah ah go mavericks!!!QUOTE]

[whottt]

Being option 2.

With Phoenix hes option....

5?



Actually...he'll probably be option #2 when he's on the court....after Amare....since Nash wants to distribute first.




Anyone that doesn't think this makes the Suns exponentially better in their half court offense is freakin insane.

[timvp]

My initial reaction was this trade was a horrible trade for the Suns. Shaq for three years and $60M while at the same time giving up Marion? Sounds bad.

But now after thinking about it some more, I see how it makes sense. The Suns, how they are built now, aren't going to win a championship. As constructed, they've already peaked and are on the way down. The chemistry is bad and getting worse. Not only that, with the Lakers getting Gasol -- that moved them past the Suns in the championship contender list. The Suns couldn't guard Bynum alone ... how would they guard Bynum and Gasol? Out of everyone in the West, the Gasol trade hurt the Suns the most.

Now obviously Shaq is past is prime and has gotten injured a lot ... but you have Shaq on your team, you have a chance at a championship. Period. Even if Shaq can be 75% of what he was, he can still be a dominant force. Put him on a team with a point guard that can get him the ball, a power forward that will make it impossible to double-team him with a big and solid veteran role players and the Suns will be legit championship contenders. Plus they'd be losing Marion who is probably the most overrated player of this generation.

People can question Shaq all they want but a motivated Shaq is the last player I want the Spurs to go against in a seven game series. He can guard Duncan as well as anyone ever has. When motivated, he has always been underrated as far as clogging up the lane by himself defensively. Parker and Manu will have a tough time getting to the rim and scoring with Mt. Shaq taking up so much room.

And the most underrated aspect of this trade would be the automatic chemistry improvement this would bring the Suns. Shaq is an unconventional leader and teammate but everyone who has ever played with him who wasn't an egomaniac (Kobe) has loved Shaq and would take a bullet for Shaq. If he came in and was healthy enough to contribute, the Suns would go from having bad chemistry to having great chemistry. Nash tries to lead that team but he doesn't demand as much respect as Shaq would. A motivated, 75% effective Shaq would do whatever he could to help the Suns win a championship and his teammates would follow.

As a Spurs fan I wouldn't like this trade because the Spurs show they can beat the Suns how they are ... and the Spurs over the years have lost all their players who could guard Shaq. Oberto and Elson can't even guard a 50% Shaq. In the matchup between the Spurs and the Suns, the Suns would all of a sudden become the bigger, stronger team.

It'd definitely be a risky trade but if you are the Suns and you are dangling Marion, Shaq is the only player you could get who would give you a chance to win a championship. The Suns don't need yet another athlete or role player to put next to Nash. The Suns need a dominant player with a dominant personality to put that team on his shoulders ... if only for moments at a time. Nash is a great player but he can't do that no matter if you put another athletic All-Star around him. D'Antoni can't do that. Shaq can.

[Kori Ellis]

marion wants more credit to yes
but I have read amare is the one that thinks the suns should be his team not nashes team

Marion said in a magazine that Nash might have won MVP of the league, but that he is the MVP of the team.

And you think Amare is the problem?

[ducks]

I think marion is why overpaid and is a very tradeable piece
but amare is the one that did not even go to media day last year not marion

[YoMamaIsCallin]

ESPN's NBA Fast Break just signed off. The anchor said, "We have from a source that the Shaq deal IS GOING TO HAPPEN."

[ducks]

to bad mt shaq can not beat manu and tp down the court to plug up the lane

[ShoogarBear]

http://www.seattleweekly.com/news/blogs/dailyweekly/shaquille_o_neal-arton21120-240x240.jpg

[ducks]

if suns coach would limit shaq's minutes somewhat this is not a bad trade
but he does not even limit grant hills minutes!

[T Park]

can guard Duncan as well as anyone ever has

yeah ok.

When Shaq pops his stomach muscles or pops that ankle again, we shall see how great that trade looks.

The less than 100% Shaq was so fantastic in 03.....

How oh how did Parker score and Ginobili against the Lakers THAT year?!?!?

[duncan228]

It'd definitely be a risky trade but if you are the Suns and you are dangling Marion, Shaq is the only player you could get who would give you a chance to win a championship. The Suns don't need yet another athlete or role player to put next to Nash. The Suns need a dominant player with a dominant personality to put that team on his shoulders ... if only for moments at a time. Nash is a great player but he can't do that no matter if you put another athletic All-Star around him. D'Antoni can't do that. Shaq can.

So, is this like what the Heat did? Mortgage everything for the future for the shot at a Championship now?

[T Park]

:lol

Even if everything wich TIMVP says is true.

Mr "Come on come on come on lets go" is still the coach.

That in its self is still a huge plus for the Spurs.

[ducks]

Suns, Heat agree to Shaq trade
By Johnny Ludden, Yahoo! Sports
February 5, 2008

Johnny Ludden
Yahoo! Sports

No longer confident they can win a championship with their current roster, the Phoenix Suns have agreed to a blockbuster trade that will bring them Shaquille O'Neal, pending results of a physical, a source with knowledge of the negotiations said Tuesday.

O'Neal will travel to Phoenix aboard a private plane, the source said, to undergo an MRI on his ailing left hip Wednesday. If he passes the physical, the Suns will complete the trade by sending Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks to the Miami Heat.

The Miami Herald first reported the Suns and Heat were in serious discussions regarding the trade.



http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...=yhoo&type=lgns

[timvp]

yeah ok.

When Shaq pops his stomach muscles or pops that ankle again, we shall see how great that trade looks.Hoping on an injury isn't exactly the best gameplan versus a team.


The less than 100% Shaq was so fantastic in 03.....

How oh how did Parker score and Ginobili against the Lakers THAT year?!?!?Kobe had already sabotaged that team.

[ludda]

So, is this like what the Heat Did? Mortgage everthing for the future for the shot at a Championship now?

Nash isn't going to last much longer either.

[T Park]

I can't wait to see how Shaq does after game 3 when hes played 40 44 43 minutes running up and down the court with Nash and company

[Kori Ellis]

I can't wait to see how Shaq does after game 3 when hes played 40 44 43 minutes running up and down the court with Nash and company

He would probably play around 30 minutes.

[T Park]

Hoping on an injury isn't exactly the best gameplan versus a team

Theres no hoping.

it will happen.

His hip and feet are shot.

[T Park]

He would probably play around 30 minutes.

D'Antoni

[ducks]

with the suns coach I could see him playing 47 minutes a game

[Kori Ellis]

D'Antoni

People thought D'Antoni would play GHill 40 mpg too. He plays 32.

[T Park]

So the Spurs are too old.

The Suns get older, now they are better?

Wow.


The Spurs should go sign up some big plodding old guys that throw up 8 foot one handed brick shots so they can regain the top spot.

[slayermin]

We have to make a move now. Fuck. I was hoping this was just a rumor.

[BonnerDynasty]

Spurs fan is still waiting for old man Hill to get injured...

[T Park]

People thought D'Antoni would play GHill 40 mpg too. He plays 32.


Down the stretch and in the playoffs he will.

No Marion there, someones gonna have to pick up the slack.

[timvp]

to bad mt shaq can not beat manu and tp down the court to plug up the lanePlayoffs aren't fast paced.



So, is this like what the Heat did? Mortgage everything for the future for the shot at a Championship now?Exactly. Except mortgaging Marion isn't that much. Marion sucks. He's actually worse than a bad player because the Suns depend on him to win regular season games and then he disappears in the playoffs. Not only do the Suns in the playoffs have to go against better teams, they have to do it without Marion.

Marion is probably the worst piece possible for a championship contender in the NBA. I wouldn't want the Spurs to sign him for the minimum. You can't win when your team depends on someone who disappears like clockwork.

[ducks]

spurs made their move
they got a backup point guard who is starting tell tp gets healthy

[peskypesky]

but you have Shaq on your team, you have a chance at a championship. Period.


Hmmmm...I guess Miami's 9-37 record is proof of that.

[T Park]

Spurs fan is still waiting for old man Hill to get injured...


Its already happened, his back and ankle have forced him to miss games.