Spurs notebook: Popovich won't speculate on trade deadline action

[THE SIXTH MAN]

Spurs notebook: Popovich won't speculate on trade deadline action

Web Posted: 02/06/2008 12:22 AM CST

Jeff McDonald
Express-News

INDIANAPOLIS – Last year around this time, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich gathered his slumping team together and offered it a pick-me-up.

He promised his players that the Spurs team before him that day would be the Spurs team that would finish the season. There would be no major trades or free-agent signings.

It was a seminal moment of the Spurs’ championship drive, designed to put players at ease and prod them to figure out their problems together.

As the trade deadline looms this year, Popovich doesn’t plan on proffering a reprise.

“I haven’t made that statement,” Popovich said. “That means probably anything can happen.”

Not even the addition of veteran guard Damon Stoudamire, signed earlier this week, is enough to spur Popovich to declare a freeze on the status quo. Between now and the Feb. 21 trade deadline, the Spurs plan to evaluate their needs and determine if a move makes sense.

“That deadline makes every team assess themselves, to see if there is something you can do to make your team better,” Popovich said. “We’ll do that, just like everyone else. Our team wants us to do that; the public wants us to do that. They’re doing that on 30 teams in the NBA right now.”

But just because a trade is possible doesn’t mean it is probable.

“If we don’t see anything we think will help us, we won’t do it,” Popovich said, “But I’m not prepared to say, like I did last year at this point, there will be no trade.”

Stoudamire cramming: On Sunday, Stoudamire signed the deal that made him a Spur. By Monday, Popovich broke the news that he would be starting in his debut Tuesday at Indiana.

Well, sort of.

“He didn’t exactly tell me I was starting,” Stoudamire said. “He just said, ‘You’ve got (Travis) Diener.’ ”

Stoudamire started at point guard in the Spurs’ 116-89 victory, shifting Manu Ginobili to a starting off-guard spot and nudging Michael Finley to the bench. Afterward, the Spurs’ new point guard drew praise from Popovich for his quick study in learning the team’s extensive playbook.

“He spent a lot of time with the coaches, very focused,” Popovich said. “The players were even teaching him. He caught on very quickly.”

D-League All-Stars: Spurs rookie Ian Mahinmi, the team’s first-round pick in 2006, has been named to the NBA Developmental League All-Star team. Mahinmi, who has been playing with the Spurs affiliate in Austin, will play for the Blue Team in the D-League exhibition Feb. 16 in New Orleans.

Two other players who have logged time in San Antonio this season – Keith Langford and Jeremy Richardson – were also named All-Stars.

Double-double machine: Tim Duncan’s 19-point, 15-rebound effort against Indiana marked his 27th double-double of the season, and 16th in the past 19 games.

Milestone for Madison alum: Jeff Foster, a 1995 graduate of Madison High School, made his 576th career appearance for the Pacers on Tuesday, moving into seventh place on the club’s all-time chart. With two more games played, he will pass Herb Williams for sixth place.

[email protected]

link (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA020608.04C.BKNspurs.notebook.3c71739.html)

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Afterward, the Spurs’ new point guard drew praise from Popovich for his quick study in learning the team’s extensive playbook.

“He spent a lot of time with the coaches, very focused,” Popovich said. “The players were even teaching him. He caught on very quickly.”
:tu
Cool to hear Stoudamire's focused.

Anyway, I hope the Spurs Org. don't knee-jerk, or anything, but still look at viable options.

[timvp]

Pop can't say the Spurs aren't going to make a trade because the Spurs have so many expiring contracts that someone could offer a deal they couldn't turn down. Like Udonis Haslem or Mike Miller for expiring contracts. You have to take those deals.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

nuggets are trying to get in on the Mike Miller talks :smokin

Of course there is so much speculation at this time of the year

[sabar]

Yeah, Miami could offer Haslem for Horry+Elson.

Damn, they'd have a ton of expiring contracts after this season and a high pick.

[T Park]

I'd trade for Udonis Haslem in a new york minute....

[greens]

Pop can't say the Spurs aren't going to make a trade because the Spurs have so many expiring contracts that someone could offer a deal they couldn't turn down. Like Udonis Haslem or Mike Miller for expiring contracts. You have to take those deals.


Which Spurs players specifically do you think are trade options at this point?

[timvp]

Which Spurs players specifically do you think are trade options at this point?Everyone not named Tim, Tony, Manu or Bruce. Everybody else could and would be traded if the price were right. Specifically, Barry and Elson have the most tradeable contracts.

[sabar]

Expiring contracts

Brent Barry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3017) $5,544,370
Francisco Elson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3364) $3,000,000
Michael Finley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3023) $3,103,000
Robert Horry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=830) $3,630,000
Damon Stoudamire (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3009) (TR (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trademachine#)) $335,442
Jacque Vaughn (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3195) $1,219,590

Notes: Brent is an option but one of our best shooters, same for Finley. Elson is pure trade bait. Horry could easily be trade bait but is in the rotation and Pop seems loyal to him. Damon is trade restricted. Vaughn is tradable but would kind of mess up our PG situation.

Oh yeah, the addition of Stoudamire makes Barry more tradable. Before, he could sub in for PG.

[greens]

Everyone not named Tim, Tony, Manu or Bruce. Everybody else could and would be traded if the price were right. Specifically, Barry and Elson have the most tradeable contracts.


It seems that the Spurs have been trying to trade Barry every year...Do you think it would be harder to do so this year considering he's on the injured list at the moment? And the other teams might not give him a chance?

I just definitely don't want the Spurs to mess with that Big Four you mentioned of Bruce/Manu/Tony/Tim. That's the true core of the team...

Also, I feel that Horry(especially 2005 championship) and Fin have done so much for the Spurs, and Oberto was amazing in the 2007 championship...

[sabar]

Trading Brent should be easiest this year. If a team is tanking away (like Miami) then they wont care if he's injured, they'll just let them go when the season ends and reap in the cap space.

[Man of Steel]

Francisco for Zo.

[T Park]

For a center who is out for the season?

[greens]

Trading Brent should be easiest this year. If a team is tanking away (like Miami) then they wont care if he's injured, they'll just let them go when the season ends and reap in the cap space.


Oh, ok. Thanks for the info. I don't know too much about cap space and such...

[sabar]

Oh, ok. Thanks for the info. I don't know too much about cap space and such...Yeah.

Before this season a team would have to eat Barry's contract for two years or do a waiver/buyout which costs the team money. By taking a guy on the last year of the contract they can just let him go during the resigning period.

Example, Miami could trade Haslem who has $6 mil for 3 years, a guaranteed loss of $18 mil. If they traded for Brent, they'd have to pay about $5 mil for his remaining year and they don't resign him, giving Miami $6 mil total to spend on free agents or rookie signings or whatever they want. Since Miami is rebuilding they have a crapload of expiring contracts and will have a good chunk of cap space.

And that's today's lesson on salaries and trades.

[greens]

Yeah.

Before this season a team would have to eat Barry's contract for two years or do a waiver/buyout which costs the team money. By taking a guy on the last year of the contract they can just let him go during the resigning period.

Example, Miami could trade Haslem who has $6 mil for 3 years, a guaranteed loss of $18 mil. If they traded for Brent, they'd have to pay about $5 mil for his remaining year and they don't resign him, giving Miami $6 mil total to spend on free agents or rookie signings or whatever they want. Since Miami is rebuilding they have a crapload of expiring contracts and will have a good chunk of cap space.

And that's today's lesson on salaries and trades.



Makes sense. And weren't other Spurs fans talking recently about a possible get Haslem trade situation...that they'd like him on the Spurs...

Do you think he'd be a good fit?

[sabar]

I'd take Haslem for Horry/Elson (although I love Horry, business is business). He'd provide much needed rebounding and you can move Duncan to center. I'm much more hesitant to trade Barry or Finley because they spread the defense well with their accurate 3pt shooting, which compliments Duncan's post play a lot. Since Elson seems to be getting nowhere and Horry "seems" to be on his last legs, it makes sense.

We'd lose a 3pt shooting PF for an inside PF. As much as I like Horry, I'd pull the trigger on that.

[SenorSpur]

Makes sense. And weren't other Spurs fans talking recently about a possible get Haslem trade situation...that they'd like him on the Spurs...

Do you think he'd be a good fit?

There's no doubt. If the Spurs could get a hold of this guy, it would give Tim a physical PF in the low post. The chance of repeating would increase exponentially.

[SenorSpur]

Teams that appear to be in the midst of fire sales:
Miami, Memphis, Minnesota

[sabar]

Barry+Elson for Mike Miller works (or at least 90% sure the salaries match). Barry is shooting at a pretty ridiculous clip from three this year though his injuries have me worried. Miller is pretty accurate too.

[greens]

I'd take Haslem for Horry/Elson (although I love Horry, business is business). He'd provide much needed rebounding and you can move Duncan to center. I'm much more hesitant to trade Barry or Finley because they spread the defense well with their accurate 3pt shooting, which compliments Duncan's post play a lot. Since Elson seems to be getting nowhere and Horry "seems" to be on his last legs, it makes sense.

We'd lose a 3pt shooting PF for an inside PF. As much as I like Horry, I'd pull the trigger on that.



I don't know...Horry is one of my favorites...I'd be okay with Barry being traded if it was very necessary...Horry usually truly shows up during the playoffs...He's Big Shot Bob.

As for 3 point shooting, I think Fin/Manu/Bruce/Udoka would be able to handle it...although, Barry does offer good ball handling skills...that's one of his strengths, he's an excellent passer and has really good court vision.

I'm just glad that I'm not the one choosing who to trade...that's not that easy to do...especially, since the Spurs players talk about how they are like a family...

[sabar]

Whatever happens, happens. There aren't many trade scenarios that benefit both the Spurs and another team. No doubt the Spurs will get offers as the deadline comes up with so many expiring contracts. Barry and Elson are the most likely to go as one has a large contract and is injured and the other isn't doing much of anything. Plus, Pop seems to be sticking to Horry in rotations. Also, Barry+Elson could save the spurs money if their trade is worth more than the other and is possible under the rules. I'd imagine the front office is interested in making up Damon's paycheck.

[greens]

Whatever happens, happens. There aren't many trade scenarios that benefit both the Spurs and another team. No doubt the Spurs will get offers as the deadline comes up with so many expiring contracts. Barry and Elson are the most likely to go as one has a large contract and is injured and the other isn't doing much of anything. Plus, Pop seems to be sticking to Horry in rotations. Also, Barry+Elson could save the spurs money if their trade is worth more than the other and is possible under the rules. I'd imagine the front office is interested in making up Damon's paycheck.



There seems to be a lack of articles on possible Spurs trades. There are numerous trade rumors/news/articles on the other teams...

As of right now, nothing is really clear about what the Spurs office is thinking of doing...

But yes, Elson/Barry combination sounds like a possible trade situation, indeed.

[TDMVPDPOY]

instead of adding horry, we should get rid of the red rocket asap

[Bruno]

Another reason to do a trade is the 2010 plan.

If Spurs really want to have the maximum cap space in 2010, they won't be able to offer contracts longer than 2 years this summer. Improving the team via free agency will be really hard.
The best way for Spurs to stay competitive until 2010 and keep the 2010 plan alive is to do some trades. This deadline is likely the last time Spurs could really do a trade because of all the expiring contracts they have.
Mike Miller contract expire at the perfect time (summer 2010), I can really see Spurs trying to get him.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I see so now its the 2010 plan....

I hope it doesnt go like your guys projected 2008 plan.

[mountainballer]

Teams that appear to be in the midst of fire sales:
Miami, Memphis, Minnesota

I would add Seattle to that group, considering that they have to rebuild totally. their big time will be 2009, when they will have a boatload of cap space, but they are also only 1 salary dumping trade away, of becomming a player in the 2008 free agency.
so IMO any player out of the group Collison, Wilcox, Ridnor, Watson, Wilkins could be had for expiring contracts. (Presti will look for some teasers, but he won't get top picks or young premium talents for this players). I'm not mentioning Wally for obvious reasons.

Collison would IMO be the best fit, the problem is, that he has another 3 years on his contract. Wilcox has the less problematic contract, it expires 2009.
if a player like West can somehow be integrated in a package, this wouldn't hurt either.
btw. it was mentioned several times, that Ian was a Presti idea. does he still belive in this? if Ian is the teaser to get a sensible deal with the Sonics done, fine.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i pull the t rigger if we can get someshit out of seatle

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

“I haven’t made that statement,” Popovich said. “That means probably anything can happen.”





translation: "We are really trying to make a move but just haven't been able to get it done yet, but hopefully" - Pop



and a player slike Haslem to SA can only happen on NBA 2k8

[TwoHandJam]

I'm still mad we didn't give Haslem more of a chance back when he was on our summer league team.

[703 Spurz]

Francisco for Zo.

Jackass

[tav1]

Barry+Elson for Mike Miller works (or at least 90% sure the salaries match). Barry is shooting at a pretty ridiculous clip from three this year though his injuries have me worried. Miller is pretty accurate too.

FYI: The league has recently changed the % match rule on trades, from 110% to 120%. Or, to put it differently, from 90% to 80%.

[mountainballer]

FYI: The league has recently changed the % match rule on trades, from 110% to 120%. Or, to put it differently, from 90% to 80%.

It's 125% + 100K $.

[boutons_]

"Mahinmi, who has been playing with the Spurs affiliate in Austin, will play for the Blue Team in the D-League exhibition Feb. 16 in New Orleans."

Pretty cool way to promote the D-L. Will the game be on national TV?

[Ghost Writer]

I can't see Riles trading Haslem now that they moved Shaq and Zo is still crippled.

M. Miller would be very intriguing on the Spurs.

[sribb43]

if mavs get Kidd, Lakers got Pau and Suns got SHAQ and the spurs did nothing and still won the championship, id laugh my ass off

[genomefreak13]

SIXTHMAN “That deadline makes every team assess themselves, to see if there is something you can do to make your team better,” Popovich said. “We’ll do that, just like everyone else. Our team wants us to do that; the public wants us to do that. They’re doing that on 30 teams in the NBA right now.”

This is the first time I've heard Pop express any kind of doubt on the his team. He woudn't make assessments and find ways to make better if the team is "A" OK.

I'm a disciple of the no-trade fan club since the start of the season. However, this statements, made me think that I might have been to fast in jumping aboard that ship. Maybe we would be seeing a deal after all.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

There seems to be a lack of articles on possible Spurs trades. There are numerous trade rumors/news/articles on the other teams...

As of right now, nothing is really clear about what the Spurs office is thinking of doing...

But yes, Elson/Barry combination sounds like a possible trade situation, indeed.

You obviously haven't been a Spurs fan very long, you never hear about what the Spurs are doing as far as trades go until the trade happens.

[Ghost Writer]

When was the last time the Spurs ever made a trade when you were like, "Wow, we got the better player(s)!"


I'll wait.

[Mr. Body]

Nazr Mohammed.

[ChumpDumper]

"Mahinmi, who has been playing with the Spurs affiliate in Austin, will play for the Blue Team in the D-League exhibition Feb. 16 in New Orleans."

Pretty cool way to promote the D-L. Will the game be on national TV?I'm pretty sure it will just be on NBAtv. It would be nice if the league at least tried to pimp it a bit on TNT.

[Ghost Writer]

Nazr Mohammed.
Surely you jest.

Rose = Mohammed

Oh, and then there were the 2 first round picks on top of it.

[Mr. Body]

Nazr was better than Malik. You didn't say anything about draft picks, just about who the better player was.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

This is the first time I've heard Pop express any kind of doubt on the his team. He woudn't make assessments and find ways to make better if the team is "A" OK.

I'm a disciple of the no-trade fan club since the start of the season. However, this statements, made me think that I might have been to fast in jumping aboard that ship. Maybe we would be seeing a deal after all.



because Pop is starting to realize the Spurs won't just come out of this slump like last season



Pop wasnt to badly repeat, as much as he says he doesn't give a fuck

[Ghost Writer]

Nazr was better than Malik. You didn't say anything about draft picks, just about who the better player was.
Dude, you are going to argue one marginal player over another?

C'mon.

Wow me.

[Mr. Body]

Wow!

Wowee wow!

[Que Gee]

Everyone not named Tim, Tony, Manu or Bruce. Everybody else could and would be traded if the price were right.

Besides Tim, you think thats true?

[Ghost Writer]

How about that Rasho trade for Bonner?

Antonio Daniels for Steve Kerr.

Sean Elliott for Rodman.

All blockbusters where we clearly we're getting the better talent, right?

We're the Spurs. We trade to cut costs and/or fill a perceived need.

[Phenomanul]

A swap for Miller and Barry doesn't make sense... Not if we're trying to go back-to-back.

They're both proficient 3 point shooters, yes.... Barry is a better passer, Mike is a better slasher.

As far as who could help the Spurs the most THIS year.... that would be Barry.
It takes all new players at least a year before they know what their role is on the Spurs.

Now if this is strictly a swap for the future.... well then yes, you pull the trigger.

[SAGambler]

As for 3 point shooting, I think Fin/Manu/Bruce/Udoka would be able to handle it...although, Barry does offer good ball handling skills...that's one of his strengths, he's an excellent passer and has really good court vision.

Let's not forget we just acquired another pretty nifty 3 pt shooter, passer, and a guy with court vision in Damon.

But I would still like to see Barry finish out his career here. But, damn, we are loaded with 3 pt shooters. Even Tony, even though he doesn't shoot it often, he can still find the hole from beyond the arc.

Udoka
Bonner
Barry
Fin
Damon
Manu
Bruce

Quite a list of gunners to keep the floor spread out.

[ThomasGranger]

Miller is a much better rebounder than Barry

[ChumpDumper]

Miller has the ability to play four positions, and he does duplicate some of the skills that Barry has which makes me less apprehensive about trading Barry for him. With Damon in the fold and the rest of the west moving away from small ball, there is less of an immediate need to pull the trigger on a Miller deal. However, we are going to need someone to play after this season, and Millers deal fits perfectly in the next cap space scheme. I would probably do it.

[Ghost Writer]

Miller has the ability to play four positions, and he does duplicate some of the skills that Barry has which makes me less apprehensive about trading Barry for him. With Damon in the fold and the rest of the west moving away from small ball, there is less of an immediate need to pull the trigger on a Miller deal. However, we are going to need someone to play after this season, and Millers deal fits perfectly in the next cap space scheme. I would probably do it.
Chump is right here, but is Miller available?

I think Miller's rebounding and playmaking is underrated.

He is much more than just a 3-point bomber.

[timvp]

A swap for Miller and Barry doesn't make sense... Not if we're trying to go back-to-back.

They're both proficient 3 point shooters, yes.... Barry is a better passer, Mike is a better slasher.

As far as who could help the Spurs the most THIS year.... that would be Barry.
It takes all new players at least a year before they know what their role is on the Spurs.

Now if this is strictly a swap for the future.... well then yes, you pull the trigger.Miller > Barry now and in the future. I'm all for keeping Barry around unless the Spurs can get a vastly better player. Miller is vastly better.

Plus, you have to factor in Barry's injuries. Even after he came back from his first calf injury, he wasn't moving too well and his shooting suffered. Now that he hurt the same calf twice, there's a definite chance he won't be fully healthy at any point this season. 36-year-old guards don't tend to bounce back from injuries very fast ... especially repeated injuries.

I don't want the Spurs to trade Barry just to trade him but if you can get a guy like Miller who can shoot, has a variety of talents and has a decent enough contract, you do it. Miller is pretty close to the perfect fourth wheel on this team and after seeing him play with Team USA this summer, I'm even more confident that he'd fit the role as a hired gun perfectly.

[timvp]

Another reason to do a trade is the 2010 plan.

If Spurs really want to have the maximum cap space in 2010, they won't be able to offer contracts longer than 2 years this summer. Improving the team via free agency will be really hard.
The best way for Spurs to stay competitive until 2010 and keep the 2010 plan alive is to do some trades. This deadline is likely the last time Spurs could really do a trade because of all the expiring contracts they have.
Mike Miller contract expire at the perfect time (summer 2010), I can really see Spurs trying to get him.Good to see that Bruno acknowledges the existence of The 2010 Plan. And yes, as you said, this trade deadline is hugely important to the Spurs. If they make a trade that hurts them a little bit in the short term but helps them over the next two years, I'll understand. After the trade deadline passes, the Spurs flexibility will all but disappear until the summer of 2010. That's a long time to wait.

This summer the Spurs will have a lot of expiring contracts but they won't be able to do much if they are intent at opening up room for a maximum contract in 2010. What they'll have is an MLE contract for two-years available (that'll probably work out to be something like a two-year, $13M contract). With that type of contract, the only type of player you can hope to land is a washed up veteran looking for one last contract.

If the Spurs want to add a talented young player to the mix, they have to do so now. Otherwise, the alternative is to wait two and a half years until the flexibility returns.

[Ghost Writer]

The 2010 Plan? Are you serious.


How about we call it the The 20/10 Plan, because only hindsight is 20/20.

Who we gonna woo in 2010?

Rasho?

Question.

[timvp]

Who we gonna woo in 2010?

Rasho?

Question.The plan is to woo the players that will comprise perhaps the best free agent class in NBA history that includes the like of LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.

But yeah, the Spurs will probably end up signing some scrub like Andrea Bargnani.

[timvp]

Why the hell the Spurs sign this Bargnani scrub. The Spurs never get a star. We always settle for second best.

We're the Spurs.©


Ghost, you said you wanted Bargnani back in 2008. Remember ... you said you wanted him for his shotblocking talents?


I was just throwing names out there. I didn't expect the Spurs to actually sign him!

Five champions. Zero star free agents. If it wasn't for the Pop-damn draft, the Spurs would be a joke.

[Mr. Body]

You take Miller over Barry in a heartbeat, Miller adds a lot now and in the future, but has there even been an inkling that Memphis is shopping him?

[Ghost Writer]

The plan is to woo the players that will comprise perhaps the best free agent class in NBA history that includes the like of LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.

But yeah, the Spurs will probably end up signing some scrub like Andrea Bargnani.
You're probably right.

For once.


We went after Kidd, Brand and J. O'Neal and came away with Rasho.

Same diff.


And stop misquoting me.

A few blocks does not make Bargnani the next Mark Eaton.

[ChumpDumper]

You take Miller over Barry in a heartbeat, Miller adds a lot now and in the future, but has there even been an inkling that Memphis is shopping him?Since the Grizz are for sale and currently hemorrhaging money, one could conclude that any cost cutting move would be attractive to them.

[Ghost Writer]

Since the Grizz are for sale and currently hemorrhaging money, one could conclude that any cost cutting move would be attractive to them.
So, no, Mike Miller is still not available.

[Mr. Body]

Since the Grizz are for sale and currently hemorrhaging money, one could conclude that any cost cutting move would be attractive to them.

Damn, I hate getting my hopes up on personnel, as I have publicly many times on this board. Miller would be a perfect steal and fit at this moment.

[FromWayDowntown]

So, no, Mike Miller is still not available.

I'm pretty sure that dumping Miller for an expiring deal or 2 would be a cost-cutting move.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't know how business decisions are made.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm pretty sure that dumping Miller for an expiring deal or 2 would be a cost-cutting move.No dummy. The Grizzlies are for sale and are losing $20-25 million this season and just made a trade that will assure they are going to suck for years to come.

It makes perfect sense to pay Mike Miller $19 million to play on a horrible team while it is on the auction block. In fact, the thought of paying him $19 million will make the team MORE attractive to potential buyers.

Think outside the box!

[Ghost Writer]

Okay, guys.

So because you say Memphis is still in a cost-cutting mode, Mike Miller is available after they traded Gasol and Swift and waived D. Stoudamire.

Good enough for me.

Please post the link when he is traded.

[Mr. Body]

The one thing stopping the Spurs would be that he makes $9 million next year and then one more. That's a chunk for your fourth guy.

[ChumpDumper]

The one thing stopping the Spurs would be that he makes $9 million next year and then one more. That's a chunk for your fourth guy.True enough. It would keep the Spurs from spending most of their MLE next season, but most of the roster spots could be filled by Splitter and the new picks.

[Ghost Writer]

Nowhere does it say that Memphis is shopping M. Miller and it seems unlikely after they just moved three (3) players in the past week.


The one thing stopping the Spurs would be that he makes $9 million next year and then one more. That's a chunk for your fourth guy.
And then there's that.


Nice player, though.

[timvp]

You take Miller over Barry in a heartbeat, Miller adds a lot now and in the future, but has there even been an inkling that Memphis is shopping him?Heisley is trying to sell the team. The more contracts he can get off the books, the more valuable the team will become on the market.

That said, there will probably be a pretty huge market for Miller. The only advantage the Spurs may have is their expiring contracts and their willingness to throw in draft picks. A trade for Miller isn't likely but it makes a lot of sense.

Here are other players who would fit with The 2010 Plan as far as taking on a bad yet short-term contract and who the Spurs would have to give up to get them to make salaries match:

Joe Smith (Brent Barry)
Jeff Foster (Brent Barry)
Cuttino Mobley (Brent Barry and Francisco Elson)
Tim Thomas (Brent Barry)
Udonis Haslem (Brent Barry)
Desmond Mason (Brent Barry)
Jamaal Magloire + Nenad Krstic (Brent Barry)
Rasual Butler (Francisco Elson)
Andre Miller (Brent Barry and Francisco Elson)
Ron Artest (Brent Barry and Francisco Elson)
Brad Miller (Brent Barry and Francisco Elson)
Mikki Moore (Brent Barry)
Earl Watson (Brent Barry)
Chris Wilcox (Brent Barry)
Damien Wilkins (Francisco Elson)
Wally Szczerbiak (Brent Barry, Francisco Elson and Jacque Vaughn)
Jason Kapono (Brent Barry)
Antonio Daniels (Brent Barry)
Brendon Haywood (Brent Barry)

Obviously I wouldn't approve of all these trades but these are the types of trades the Spurs could look at.

[Mr. Body]

True enough. It would keep the Spurs from spending most of their MLE next season, but most of the roster spots could be filled by Splitter and the new picks.

If anything the Spurs are risk-averse. What if Miller doesn't work out? They have an albatross around their neck, a guy making as much as Ginobili does.

Granted, _I_ don't see any big reasons it wouldn't work out - someone has mentioned his good play for Team USA and for all intents and purposes he sounds like a solid teammate - but $9million seems to push well past the F.O.'s realm of tolerance.

[Obstructed_View]

translation: "We are really trying to make a move but just haven't been able to get it done yet, but hopefully" - Pop



and a player slike Haslem to SA can only happen on NBA 2k8
It's that time of year again. I'll be pulling this one out of the rack today:

http://capitolshoppingmall.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/CIA%20Hat%20-%20large.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

If anything the Spurs are risk-averse. What if Miller doesn't work out? They have an albatross around their neck, a guy making as much as Ginobili does.

Granted, _I_ don't see any big reasons it wouldn't work out - someone has mentioned his good play for Team USA and for all intents and purposes he sounds like a solid teammate - but $9million seems to push well past the F.O.'s realm of tolerance.How long did we have Steve Smith on the books?

Really this is the only deal that jumped out at me given the two teams' respective situations and Miller's talent. Trades are never easy to pull off, it's just that this season there are more possibilities than the Spurs usually have. I figure as long as the Spurs can stay under the tax threshold and still have the 2010 plan online, they can do a trade like this.

[Mr. Body]

Heisley is trying to sell the team. The more contracts he can get off the books, the more valuable the team will become on the market.

That said, there will probably be a pretty huge market for Miller. The only advantage the Spurs may have is their expiring contracts and their willingness to throw in draft picks. A trade for Miller isn't likely but it makes a lot of sense.

Here are other players who would fit with The 2010 Plan as far as taking on a bad yet short-term contract and who the Spurs would have to give up to get them to make salaries match:

Joe Smith (Brent Barry)
Jeff Foster (Brent Barry)
Cuttino Mobley (Brent Barry and Francisco Elson)
Tim Thomas (Brent Barry)
Udonis Haslem (Brent Barry)
Desmond Mason (Brent Barry)
Jamaal Magloire + Nenad Krstic (Brent Barry)
Rasual Butler (Francisco Elson)
Andre Miller (Brent Barry and Francisco Elson)
Ron Artest (Brent Barry and Francisco Elson)
Brad Miller (Brent Barry and Francisco Elson)
Mikki Moore (Brent Barry)
Earl Watson (Brent Barry)
Chris Wilcox (Brent Barry)
Damien Wilkins (Francisco Elson)
Wally Szczerbiak (Brent Barry, Francisco Elson and Jacque Vaughn)
Jason Kapono (Brent Barry)
Antonio Daniels (Brent Barry)
Brendon Haywood (Brent Barry)

Obviously I wouldn't approve of all these trades but these are the types of trades the Spurs could look at.

None of those appeal as much as Miller. Okay, maybe a guy like Haywood, but doesn't Washington keep him?

Someone upthread was making the claim that only a handful of teams have the expiring contracts to offer Memphis for Miller. There's a yahoo article about Danny Ferry trying to pry him away from the Grizzlies, but all his bad contracts, the Damon Jones types, are expiring next season, not this one.

Miller would be a ridiculously good fit, IMO, which is not to say a 100% shot at success. Granted, he'd not play the extended minutes he is now playing, which are about 37 mpg or so, and so his stats would decrease, and he's historically never shot at such excellent percentages as he now is shooting at, but the guy is 28, is athletic, seems like a smart ball player who is team-centric, and he's a dynamite shooter. He'd instantly solve a lot of the problems we've had scoring the ball; he's an excellent spot shooter, but can also get his own shots. Not to mention he's pretty familiar with Stoudamire by now.

Talking about Tyrus Thomas is one thing - he's intriguing, but there's a lot of flaws. Mike Miller would be the low radar kind of move that would pivot against the Gasol/Shaq trades excellently. It's just that price tag - and whether Memphis is selling.

[Obstructed_View]

Nowhere does it say that Memphis is shopping M. Miller and it seems unlikely after they just moved three (3) players in the past week.
They are unloading contracts. That makes it MORE likely that they are shopping Miller, not less.

[td4mvp21]

Pop can't say the Spurs aren't going to make a trade because the Spurs have so many expiring contracts that someone could offer a deal they couldn't turn down. Like Udonis Haslem or Mike Miller for expiring contracts. You have to take those deals.

I would flip the fuck out if we got Haslem, I've been wanting him on the Spurs for several seasons.

[Mr. Body]

Uh, guys. I just discovered he has two sons named Mason and Mavrick. It's a no go.

[Ghost Writer]

Remember we snapped when the Spurs traded for Steve Smith?

But wasn't that all an elaborate scheme for more flexibility in 2003?

[FromWayDowntown]

Remember when the Spurs didn't cave in on Derek Anderson's outrageous contractual demands.

[timvp]

None of those appeal as much as Miller.Yeah outside of Miller and Haslem, the excitement level drops off pretty dramatically. I kind of like the idea of Foster but Indiana doesn't really have reason to salary dump him.

Two boring names on the list that are probably available are Joe Smith and Cuttino Mobley. The Bulls and the Clippers aren't going anywhere and by trading these veterans, they could open up playing time for younger players. Smith has quietly been pretty damn good since he got old and became a role player.

Mobley to me is an interesting possibility and he's a very realistic option. After this year he has $19M over two years left on his contract. The Clippers should be happy to dump that salary, while the Spurs can take on the contract without too much problem.

The only thing I don't like about Mobley is his height ... but he's been playing shooting guard for a while now and his height has rarely been an issue. He can shoot it. He competes. He has point guard experience and can pass it. At 32, he's at the same age Barry was when the Spurs got him. He was clutch early in his career with the Rockets. Plus, Mobley has had success in the NBA as a starter and coming off the bench.

While I'd of course like Miller or Haslem better, Mobley is exactly the type of player the Spurs can get -- an overpaid veteran on a bad team that is looking to dump salary. I wouldn't love the deal but it makes sense now that I think about it. You'd basically be replacing Barry by getting a somewhat similar player who is four years younger.

Hmmmmm . . .

[baseline bum]

Foster's rebounding on top of being a warm body at the four would be nice, as would Haslem's defense. Wilcox would be great too, but we're not getting him unless Sam wants to pull a McHale for us.

[T Park]

Mobley also plays a smidge better D than Barry.

[baseline bum]

He (Mobley) was clutch early in his career with the Rockets.


I lived in Houston during the Mobley/Dickerson years and saw almost all of their games in that timespan, and I don't remember him being all that clutch. Still, I know he'd get a lot of bad desperation looks off passes from Barkley or Olajuwon with 2 seconds left though, after they had been backing it down for the previous 10 seconds. The one shot of Mobley's I'll always remember was him getting rejected by Shaq at the buzzer of an elimination game in the '99 playoffs, and Shaq running into the Forum crowd and high-fiving people.

After watching his act on the Clippers, I don't think he's much of an upgrade over Finley. He doesn't have a lot of range, and seems like more of a mid-range guy (we already have that in Parker and Ginobili). I think getting a three-point bomber as Barry's health / Finley going cold insurance is way more important.

[baseline bum]

Mobley also plays a smidge better D than Barry.

True. He would be a nice option defensively. I don't think he fits in offensively at all though.

[timvp]

He doesn't have a lot of range, and seems like more of a mid-range guy (we already have that in Parker and Ginobili). I think getting a three-point bomber as Barry's health / Finley going cold insurance is way more important.Mobley has evolved into a three-point shooter. His career high in made three-pointers is higher than Finley and tied with Barry. He has hit at least 38% of his threes in five of his last six seasons. His lifetime three-point percentage is higher than Finley. In fact, could end his career with more threes than Barry or Finley.

You could say Mobley was a mid-range shooter early in his career but now he's a bonafide three-point shooter.

[Mr. Body]

Mobley is crap, in my opinion, and especially at that price. He's a chucker and not a great one, is too old, and is redundant given what we have on the roster. A big no thanks.

[baseline bum]

Mobley has evolved into a three-point shooter. His career high in made three-pointers is higher than Finley and tied with Barry. He has hit at least 38% of his threes in five of his last six seasons. His lifetime three-point percentage is higher than Finley. In fact, could end his career with more threes than Barry or Finley.

You could say Mobley was a mid-range shooter early in his career but now he's a bonafide three-point shooter.

It has always seemed like a real weakness any time I've turned on a Clipper game this year. I guess he'd be a bit of an upgrade on paper over Finley, but 39% from the three isn't all that impressive to me. Looking at the stats, he has a Turkoglu-esque playoff three-point percentage of 34% (then again, so does Miller).

[Mr. Body]

LAC was desperate to get any kind of 3-point shooting last year in large part because Mobley can't shoot them reliably. I'm mystified timvp cares about him, especially at another couple years at $9m each.

[SenorSpur]

LAC was desperate to get any kind of 3-point shooting last year in large part because Mobley can't shoot them reliably. I'm mystified timvp cares about him, especially at another couple years at $9m each.


At that price, Mike Miller is a much better option

[Mr. Body]

If he is an option, yes.

[slayermin]

We need a big body. He doesn't have to be great, just big and strong. Someone who could beat up on Shaq when Shaq beats up on Tim.

[exstatic]

I see so now its the 2010 plan....

I hope it doesnt go like your guys projected 2008 plan.
Try to keep up. The 2008 plan went on hold to 2010 when they re-signed everyone from the 2007 champs.

[td4mvp21]

Haslem DNP tonight, is he injured?

[itzsoweezee]

joe smith would be awesome.

[Mr. Body]

Haslem DNP tonight, is he injured?

Sprained ankle.

[Avitus1]

It'll all work out in the end... *crosses fingers*

[timvp]

Mobley is horrible and he is already 32 years old..I hope the god the Spurs don't go after him with younger and hungrier players out there. This team needs to start spending money on younger players not older ones. Mobley is barely 6-5 on a good day and he is chucker too, sorry we need to somehow go after Miller..or Haslem. :lol

You guys are great. Obviously Mike Miller or Udonis Haslem would be preferred players to target. Any basketball fan with a pulse can tell you that. However, when you get your head out of the clouds and start looking at more realistic options, Mobley would be a decent short term fix.

Every team and every team's fans are eyeing Miller and Haslem right now. I doubt the Spurs will be able to get either. They'll try but even if the Griz and Heat are selling, other teams can offer better packages.

Now, crossing off Miller and Haslem from the list and looking at more realistic options, the selection isn't that great. You have an aging veteran like Mobley or Joe Smith. You have one dimensional role players like Jason Kapono and Jeff Foster. And then after that, the players either don't fit with the team basketball-wise or chemistry-wise.

The other option is to continue on with what the Spurs have. The dangers in that are Barry's injury (the Spurs could think he's done), Elson hurting more than helping and an aging roster that will be difficult to add to during the offseason. The Spurs have a lot of aging players with expiring contracts. To replenish the roster, the Spurs could have something like $6M to cover about three or four openings.

I know Spurs fans want to only settle only for Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem or Wilt Chamberlain reincarnate, but the Spurs never get the player Spurs fans want. They get the old veteran with one foot in the grave who won't demand a long-term contract. But I'll apologize for actually bringing up trades that don't have young superstars coming to San Antonio for Francisco Elson.

[Mr. Body]

But how is Mobley a short term fix if he's owed $20 million more after this season through 2010? He duplicates what you have and is bizarrely expensive for that. The Clips might give a draft pick just for getting rid of him.

[timvp]

But how is Mobley a short term fix if he's owed $20 million through 2010? He duplicates what you have and is bizarrely expensive for that. The Clips might give a draft pick just for getting rid of him.Going forward the next two years, how does he duplicate what the Spurs have? Barry is 36 and for all we know, his career could be over. Old players don't heal well from something like a calf strain. Even at 36, Barry has outlasted a lot of players his age. And then Finley 34 going on 40. Plus he's a free agent in the summer.

The next time the Spurs have flexibility like they do now will be the summer of 2010. Bowen, Barry, Finley, Horry, Vaughn and Stoudamire will be retired by then. You have to bridge the gap somehow and trading expiring contracts for an ugly yet short-term deal is one way to go about it. Another other way is to split up the MLE like three ways this summer and sign a bunch of scrubs.

In a Spurs fan wet dream, the Spurs can just get Mike Miller for Barry and Udonis Haslem for Horry and Elson and be set for the next half decade. But it won't work out like that. The Spurs will sign or trade for a below the radar aging vet. If not Mobley, it'll be someone in a similar situation.

[Obstructed_View]

The only thing Mobley's a step up from is an out-for-the-year Barry, and that's an awful lot of money just for that, unless you can get rid of Finley in the process. If the Spurs can't land Miller, and can't find a big that's going to be less in Pop's doghouse than Elson, then they probably need to stand pat. The move most likely to threaten the Spurs' championship chances this year would be the Mavericks NOT getting rid of Devin Harris. I haven't seen anything to convince me that the Spurs can't win it again with the current roster if they are healthy.

[picnroll]

Mobley? Damn we are desperate.

[remingtonbo2001]

We don't really need anyone, although I'd like to see Elson in another uniform.
We could easily win with the team we got, as long as we got our health.

[pad300]

:lol

You guys are great. Obviously Mike Miller or Udonis Haslem would be preferred players to target. Any basketball fan with a pulse can tell you that. However, when you get your head out of the clouds and start looking at more realistic options, Mobley would be a decent short term fix.

Every team and every team's fans are eyeing Miller and Haslem right now. I doubt the Spurs will be able to get either. They'll try but even if the Griz and Heat are selling, other teams can offer better packages.

Now, crossing off Miller and Haslem from the list and looking at more realistic options, the selection isn't that great. You have an aging veteran like Mobley or Joe Smith. You have one dimensional role players like Jason Kapono and Jeff Foster. And then after that, the players either don't fit with the team basketball-wise or chemistry-wise.

The other option is to continue on with what the Spurs have. The dangers in that are Barry's injury (the Spurs could think he's done), Elson hurting more than helping and an aging roster that will be difficult to add to during the offseason. The Spurs have a lot of aging players with expiring contracts. To replenish the roster, the Spurs could have something like $6M to cover about three or four openings.

I know Spurs fans want to only settle only for Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem or Wilt Chamberlain reincarnate, but the Spurs never get the player Spurs fans want. They get the old veteran with one foot in the grave who won't demand a long-term contract. But I'll apologize for actually bringing up trades that don't have young superstars coming to San Antonio for Francisco Elson.


I'd put it this way. I'd rather try and resign Barry next year for the Vet min or the LLE, than spend 9 million per season on Mobely. Mike Miller would be worth the money (if he works out); Mobely is simply massively overpaid. Of the players you listed, I would consider trading for Foster or Smith.

As far as what to do in the offseason, assuming no major trades, my suggestions are here:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2211512&postcount=28

as far as immediate trades, I expect a small one to deal with the extra cap space. Likely something tricky. My suggestion is as follows:

A sequence of trades

1) Trade Elson to SAC for J Williams, Dahntay Jones, Douby

2) Kings Sign and trade Darryl Watkins ($427563, league min, 3 years, only 1st year guaranteed) for 1.845 million Traded Player Exception from SA (acquired when we traded Udrih to the Wolves)

3) Kings trade part of Trade Exception to SA for Douby and a 2nd round pick

4) Kings trade remainder of TE to SA for Watkins and Cash to compensate the extra salary they incur as part of this deal (Elson + Watkins = 3,427,563, pro rated to end of year, vs. Williams and Jones = 1,401,883, pro rated to end of year ~ 1,000,000).

5) Kings buy out Watkins..

Net SA trades Elson + 2nd round pick for Williams and Jones.

SA gets under cap. Gets 2 bodies to fill out end of bench (Elson has been useless so no loss there). Kings get an extra 2nd round pick. Williams (81 MIN, 18 GAMES) and Jones(198, 20 gAMES) have played a combined 279 minutes so far. They are not significant parts of the Kings rotation; now that the kings are over their injury issues, they won't be seeing time at all.

I am not expecting a blockbuster...

I'm not sure if you can pull off part 4. If not, SA buys him out rather than SAC; SA should still be under the lux tax, having dropped 1.5 million in salary (Elson - Williams and Jones). THey also send less money to SAC.

[intlspurshk]

Maybe we should trade Barry + Red Rocket + filler for Troy Murphy. He can really space the floor and help he team. :blah :blah :blah

[Holt's Cat]

Going forward the next two years, how does he duplicate what the Spurs have? Barry is 36 and for all we know, his career could be over. Old players don't heal well from something like a calf strain. Even at 36, Barry has outlasted a lot of players his age. And then Finley 34 going on 40. Plus he's a free agent in the summer.

The next time the Spurs have flexibility like they do now will be the summer of 2010. Bowen, Barry, Finley, Horry, Vaughn and Stoudamire will be retired by then. You have to bridge the gap somehow and trading expiring contracts for an ugly yet short-term deal is one way to go about it. Another other way is to split up the MLE like three ways this summer and sign a bunch of scrubs.

In a Spurs fan wet dream, the Spurs can just get Mike Miller for Barry and Udonis Haslem for Horry and Elson and be set for the next half decade. But it won't work out like that. The Spurs will sign or trade for a below the radar aging vet. If not Mobley, it'll be someone in a similar situation.


The swingman rotation could thin out a bit after this season and it's not exactly a great free agent market for those spots upcoming in the summer.

[Holt's Cat]

Here are other players who would fit with The 2010 Plan as far as taking on a bad yet short-term contract and who the Spurs would have to give up to get them to make salaries match:

Joe Smith (Brent Barry)
Jeff Foster (Brent Barry)
Cuttino Mobley (Brent Barry and Francisco Elson)
Tim Thomas (Brent Barry)
Udonis Haslem (Brent Barry)
Desmond Mason (Brent Barry)
Jamaal Magloire + Nenad Krstic (Brent Barry)
Rasual Butler (Francisco Elson)
Andre Miller (Brent Barry and Francisco Elson)
Ron Artest (Brent Barry and Francisco Elson)
Brad Miller (Brent Barry and Francisco Elson)
Mikki Moore (Brent Barry)
Earl Watson (Brent Barry)
Chris Wilcox (Brent Barry)
Damien Wilkins (Francisco Elson)
Wally Szczerbiak (Brent Barry, Francisco Elson and Jacque Vaughn)
Jason Kapono (Brent Barry)
Antonio Daniels (Brent Barry)
Brendon Haywood (Brent Barry)

Obviously I wouldn't approve of all these trades but these are the types of trades the Spurs could look at.


Brad Miller - I think he could fit in well in SA. He has enough range on his J, rebounds well, and can block shots. That said, his price isn't that horrible for a big man with his skill and unless the Kings are looking to free up cap, trim payroll, and/or move in another direction I'm not sure why'd they move him.

Jeff Foster - rebounding. Couldn't be worse than Elson.

Damien Wilkins - hustle guy who can plays hard. Seems like a team player. Not sure why Seattle would move him.

Antonio Daniels - I think he could be a nice fit in the Spurs' perimeter rotation. Can do a little of everything, plays with some poise, and can back up both backcourt spots. This summer's free agent guard selection is somewhat slim in the Spurs' price range. AD wouldn't be a bad fit all things considered.

[mountainballer]

Jeff Foster - rebounding. Couldn't be worse than Elson.


would be a huge upgrade over Elson in many more aspects. rebounding is just one obvious one.
Foster is a much better defender. either in a team defense and man to man.
and even if the numbers don't point to it, Foster will also be a significant aspect on offense. Foster doesn't score much, but thanks to the fact that he is one of the best offensive rebounders (different to Elson, who isn't very good there), his points come from opportunities a player like Elson would never create. by their numbers their offensive production looks similar, in fact Foster would raise the offensive team production for about 2 PPG compared to Elson.



Damien Wilkins - hustle guy who can plays hard. Seems like a team player. Not sure why Seattle would move him.


salary dump.
Seattle would have to cut about 10 million in salary to become a player in next years free agency. Wilkins might be a typical trow in in a bigger package.
I was thinking about how to get Collison (who would be a nice fit alongside Tim IMO), which isn't easy because he is a BYC player. it needs a bigger package.
Collison + Wilkins + West for Barry + Elson + Ian + Picks would work.
(I know, there are some problematic points, Spurs go more than 1 million over the threshold, which will cost them another 3 million over all.)
however, all three players might fit nice with the Spurs (I'm not much of a Wilkinson fan though) and even if the Sonics don't get much talent in return, this move opens many options for their future, which is building around Durant (and this years top pick, Rose would fit great).



Antonio Daniels - I think he could be a nice fit in the Spurs' perimeter rotation. Can do a little of everything, plays with some poise, and can back up both backcourt spots. This summer's free agent guard selection is somewhat slim in the Spurs' price range. AD wouldn't be a bad fit all things considered.

he would be a very expensive solution for the improvement he would provide. and the Wiz are still in the PO race, can't see them sacrifice their PG with Arenas still out. if they think at deadline, that they won't make the PO, then yes.

[Bruno]

You also had to look at who/what Spurs could trade :

Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and Bowen won't be traded.
Stoudamire can't be traded by CBA rule.

So Spurs, have 9 players who could be traded.
I doubt Spurs trade Horry or Finley by respect and because Pop want them in his rotation.
Vaughn can't be traded without his agreement, Pop likes him, he has a low trade value and his contract is small. For all these reasons, I don't see him being traded.
Oberto also seems to be safe. He is important player for Spurs.
Mahinmi and Udoka have little trade value and their salaries are very low. I don't see Spurs trading them unless they give up on them or they get a good offer for them.
Bonner is in the doghouse since January. IMO, he is on the trading block.
Elson and Barry are also on the trading block. Barry has played well this year but his contract is just too atractive to not be a trade assets. Elson has been bad this year and has also a nice expiring contract.

Spurs have also other assets like some trade exceptions, first round picks and right to players. Splitter is maybe the best of these assets but I can see Spurs not being interested by trading him.

In any case, the luxury tax and the 2010 plan will likely be deciding factors.

[Ghost Writer]

timvp, I think what we're saying is that for the money, we're okay with Finley/Barry over Mobley. Mobley doesn't upgrade us there to warrant upsetting the apple cart at that price.

I like Mike Miller, but don't see Memphis dealing him now.

Joe Smith has enjoyed a renaissance this season, but his knees are creaky.