Did Kobe hit her? [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

KoriEllis

08-04-2003, 11:37 PM

:vomit If it comes out that he hit her and this isn't just rough sex and he said/she said, then he's gotta serve time. :vomit

I'm trying to reserve judgement until it all comes out, but dang!

Monday, August 4

Co-worker reportedly was disheveled and had marks
sports.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=1590035 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=1590035)
ESPN.com news services

EAGLE, Colo. -- Bobby Pietrack, a bellman at the Lodge & Spa at Cordillera, told police that he saw his 19-year-old co-worker shortly after she left Kobe Bryant's room on the night of the alleged sexual assualt, ESPN's Shelley Smith reported Monday.

Pietrack reportedly told police that the woman was visibly upset, disheveled and had red marks on her neck and face, according to Smith.

Sources close to the investigation say Pietrack is considered the first link in the chain of what is called "immediate outcry," meaning he is the first person the alleged victim cried out to immediately following the alleged incident.

The alleged victim went to police the following day, approximately 13 hours after the alleged assault. Sources also said that photos taken of her at that point show the marks. Those photos are considered part of the prosecution's evidence.

Pietrack has not spoken to reporters and has declined repeated requests by ESPN.

Bryant is scheduled to attend a preliminary hearing on Wednesday at the Eagle County Justice Center at approximately 6 p.m. ET. Bryant will be read the charges against him and may enter a plea.

Pooh

08-04-2003, 11:41 PM

Well unless they'll say she hit him first or something like that.

KoriEllis

08-04-2003, 11:43 PM

Well unless they'll say she hit him first or something like that.

No excuse.

Pooh

08-04-2003, 11:47 PM

There was no excuse for any of it actually. This is going to make the O.J. trial seem like a moving violation.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-05-2003, 12:12 AM

The alleged victim went to police the following day, approximately 13 hours after the alleged assault. Sources also said that photos taken of her at that point show the marks.

If the marks show up in the photos 13 hours later, Kobe's fucked.

Pooh, who cares if she did, he's what 6'8", 240 (?) and she's maybe 5'9", 130 pounds.

AHF

IcemanCometh

08-05-2003, 12:14 AM

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030803/s/1059894496.2483822624.jpg

IcemanCometh

08-05-2003, 12:16 AM

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030803/lthumb.1059886061.teen_choice_awards_cams104.jpg

RuffnReadyOzStyle

08-05-2003, 12:28 AM

Holy Sith

08-05-2003, 12:29 AM

I like how theres reports he hit her...and in these Kid Choice
Pictures, he's wearing a Muhammed ALI shirt:lol :lol :lol

What an idiot!

Sith

Jimcs50

08-05-2003, 12:40 AM

there was still seman in her 13 hrs later?

WriterNum934

08-05-2003, 12:40 AM

but does Kobe seem the type to do these things to you?

Well, the guy who recently killed 2 women and left another in a coma at a Century 21 Realty office was a "peaceful man with kids" who no one "suspected" of doing such a thing.

So, what a person has done before means nothing. We have VERY LITTLE control of our minds. One minute you can be a lovely person who raises money for homeless people and the next day you're blowing up buildings.

pacersrule03

08-05-2003, 12:46 AM

IF Kobe is guilty what happens, is he going to jail? Will he play next season?

Pooh

08-05-2003, 12:50 AM

Probably give him 20 yrs probation and make him register as a sex offender no matter where he goes.

IcemanCometh

08-05-2003, 01:07 AM

Look the theory is that she went up there to get all freaky freaky with the kobster. Kobe of course likes it kinky style and tried to go rear door on her without permission. She freaked and said hey I'm a good caucasian girl from Eagle County Colorado, I don't play. Kobe then goes into a steroid induced rage. The moral of the story? Always ask permission before the mission.

Heres a clear sign to help Kobe next time.

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20030804/i/1060021224.2282143844.jpg

2pac

08-05-2003, 01:30 AM

Did she have it coming? :eyebrow

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-05-2003, 03:24 AM

Don`t jump down my throat, I know as little as anyone, but does Kobe seem the type to do these things to you? Is it possible to fabricate marks like these, or get a friend to inflict them? These are QUESTIONS only, I have no clue what is going on here, Kobe just doesn`t seem the type to hit a woman to me (and celebrities have been framed in situations like this before with the victim looking for a civil@payout regardless of the criminal trial outcomej.

I am so sick and fucking tired of this whole "this doesn't seem like Kobe" bullshit.

HELLO PEOPLE... his wife (you know, the one clinging to his arm and checkbook right now) was not even legal when he met her, and had just turned 18 when they wed.

Do the math and figure out that Kobe (legal) was dating and banging a minor (not legal) prior to their marriage, they got married just after she turned 18 and was legal to do so. He met her on the set of a music video, and they got engaged while she was still in high school.

So don't give me the whole "this isn't like Kobe" thing, he was robbing the cradle before he even wed.

And to take it one step further, the prick already admitted to committing adultery, so how can anyone say "this is not like Kobe" when prior to this all most of you thought he was a good wholesome man? When he admitted to adultery he already burst that "character" bubble, so can we please leave it out of the discussion?

The guy's an asshole - he cheated on his wife, probably raped this girl, initially lied about the whole thing, then recanted when he realized it was his ass on the line for sure.

No one should feel sorry for Kobe. He brought everything on himself, and he most certainly doesn't have the character that all his apologists seem to think is there.

Thanks[/soap box]

AHF

KoriEllis

08-05-2003, 03:47 AM

Yeah, what he said ^^^.

(Great post, AHF).

Nbadan

08-05-2003, 03:53 AM

Oh common...committing adultery is a far car from committing rape. One is a serious character flaw and the other is a violent criminal offense. Don't confuse the two because all of the sudden your 'morally outraged' over behavior that most of the males who post in this forum are probably equally guilty of.

Or didn't you get to second base with a girl until after you graduated HS? Kobe entered the league at 19, not 23. So he dated a HS girl, big deal, a 19 year old guy dating a 17 year old girl may not be legal, but it's not as morally outrageous as if Kobe was 23,24,25..

Kobe will get his day in court, just like anyone of us would get under the same circumstances, and if he's found guilty of forcing himself on the young woman, I hope he gets what he has coming to him, but this is a man's life we are talking about here, and not just basketball.

So let's not jump to irrational conclusions just because we hate the Lakers or because all of the sudden we've become the 'moral majority' of the NBA.

-out

KoriEllis

08-05-2003, 04:06 AM

17 year old girl may not be legal, but it's not as morally outrageous as if Kobe was 23,24,25..

Kobe is nearly 25 now and Vanessa is 20. Meaning he was 22 when she was 17-years-old.

I didn't see AHF's post as being a statement of "moral outrage" over Kobe's adultery. He was just stating that he's sick of people thinking they know Kobe's character.

The reason I am beginning to doubt Kobe's innocence is because of the drastic difference in his story.

First he didn't know the girl. Then he knew her but just flirted with her. Then he had sex with her, but it was consentual.

If the girl had marks on her face and throat, documented by the bellboy and the police, Kobe's case has become thinner.

He said, she said, consentual or not consentual is very difficult to prove. Even vaginal bruising or lacerations doesn't prove anything (could be just rough sex). But marks on her face??

That's a whole different ballgame.

Nbadan

08-05-2003, 04:24 AM

I'm not gonna address the alledged markings on the girl because I haven't seem them, and as far as I know, neither has anyone else outside of the witnesses in the article and the police. If you want to convict Kobe in the press based on that, that is your perogative, but I'm gonna wait until Court TV brings us the rest of the evidence and the testimony of witnesses before calling Kobe a rapist.

It had previously been reported that a witness had heard a struggle in the room the night of the alleged incident. Well, those rumors turned out to be false. This is totally a he-said, she-said incident, and Kobe will be judged by which individual the jury finds more credible.

And Kobe's reputation to this point has been impecable, so the prosecution has its work cut out for them. Or haven't you noticed the troves of girls who have come out lately and said that Kobe slept with them too? Oh, you haven't?

KoriEllis

08-05-2003, 04:28 AM

I am not convicting Kobe. In fact when I saw the press conference, I said that I felt sorry for him. I am only stating that if there were actually marks on her face -- then it's not just "he said, she said" anymore.

And that doesn't bode well for Kobe.

Nbadan

08-05-2003, 04:44 AM

I agree. Still, I think a jury will want to know why the alleged victim waited 13 hours before reporting the attack to authorities, and what she did in the hours immediately after the alleged incident.

The real moral outrage in this case maybe that because of strict Colorado privacy laws, the jury in Kobe's trial may never know the true history of Bryant's alleged victim. The twice, not single, suicide attempt (obviously a cry for attention). The tryout for the show American Idol. (doesnt that just say look at me?). And now we learn that one of the deputy sheriffs involved in the case and investigation was named in a previous racial profiling settlement. All this may never be presented in court - now that's outrageous.

gospurs21

08-05-2003, 10:13 AM

^^^
now you are just being silly and grasping at straws. None of those things really matter in this case...get used to it. That is just history the media is using to try the case in the forum of public opinion. It only works with the feable minded tabeloid reading masses.

Go Spurs....

Shelly

08-05-2003, 10:14 AM

Yes, but plenty of victims wait until they go to the police. She could have been in shock (it happens). Maybe she wanted to be with her parents. Maybe it took her that long to work up the courage to go to the police because it was Kobe Bryant she was accusing. Maybe she thought no one would believe her. Maybe she thought this was a nightmare and just wanted it to all go away. Maybe 13 hours later, the reality sunk in.

Yeah, it's easy to say she should have gone to the police right away and that I would have if I were her, but unless you've been in that situation, you don't know.

MannyIsGod

08-05-2003, 10:48 AM

People that think 13 hours is a long time know very little about rape cases.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-05-2003, 11:05 AM

Dan,

It's obvious you don't have a clue, best to just pass on this one.

I wasn't trying to show "moral outrage", just say that I'm sick of people bringing up Kobe's "character", when it's obvious that is a farce. Reading comprehension 101.

As for the rest of your posts, talk about grasping for straws. Oh no, she took a whole 13 hours to go to police. The horror! Don't let your opinion on rape victims be shaped by the defense and Kobe apologists, that is actually a pretty "quick" decision to report an incident by a rape victim. Many take months or even over a year to come to grips with it and go to the authorities.

Don't let that get in the way of your hero worship though. Heavenforbid the great Kobe Bryant actually did something horrible like this.

AHF

Ghost Writer

08-05-2003, 11:07 AM

I think the Spurs elimination of LA started Kobe's downward spiral.

P.S.

Those "I Love Kobe" and "I Love Vannessa" bracelets are gay.

:cooldevil

2Cleva

08-05-2003, 11:21 AM

Just a few words...

1 - Kori - You said Kobe's story has changed. Publically, that isn't true at all. Only people talking about the case is all the girl's friends that she's been around. If anyone is proved to be lying its them. Bray, family spokesperson said she drove home alone, another said they drove her. Its like even they can't get their facts straight.

2 - If there were marks on her, Kobe would have been arrested on the spot for assault, not aloud to fly home, make arrangements to come in after the holiday, then called in before the holiday. Assault and battery at the very least. Plus, the DA wouldn't have said anything about not being sure to press charges or been a 2 week delay.

3 - Which leads to 3 - the public doesn't know jack about what happen. Best to wait until the trial or the case is opened when you can make a rational decision.

4 - If Kobe raped her, he deserves jail time. If he didn't, then he did nothing illegal. No one should think of themselves as the moral police so if he cheated on his spouse (like over half of Americans do) thats on him. Only his maker can judge that. He without sin should cast the first stone.

Ruby Ridge

08-05-2003, 11:42 AM

Kobe's character? Just ask me!

Sincerely,

Samaki Walker

gospurs21

08-05-2003, 11:59 AM

NOT2cleva,
the only way the police arrest krybe for assalt the same day is if they are called to the scene and both parties are present. They obviously felt that the was not enough evidence to hold him, being that he is the mighty krybe kryant of the lakers. If it would have been you, they would have haulded your ass to jail.

Face it your lame ass hero lied to the team about getting surgery on his knee, why should anyone believe him about this?

Hopefully he gets everything he deserves.

Go Spurs...

ducks

08-05-2003, 12:16 PM

I hope he gets what he derserves. only becuase stars get off all the time. I could care less how it effects basketball. basketball is a game. striping off girls panties and raping them is not right. Right now I have no desire to watch kobe play ball again. all I can think abut it what he did to her and his wife.

Tawnia79

08-05-2003, 12:42 PM

A report came out today that almost the entire bellboy story is complete bogus. He did not drive her home and her clothes were not torn. An editor from the Vail daily has been in email correspondance with someone I know and he said that they haven't reported anything that wasn't completely confirmed, and they've confirmed that this story is not true.

bigzak25

08-05-2003, 12:46 PM

I feel sorry for the girl.

Either she was raped,
or she's effing mental.

I don't give a **** about kobe or his wife.
However, I will reserve judgement on anyone...
until all the facts come to light and the jury makes their decision.....

Godbless them all.

ducks

08-05-2003, 01:00 PM

Tawnia79* is that report on the internet?

gospurs21

08-05-2003, 01:12 PM

Tawnia79,
that doesn't change the fact that krybe lied to the team about getting surgury on his knee (the reason for being in Colorado). That in itself makes everything else he says not creditable. He is innocent until proven guilty, but that does not mean he is a saint either.

Something happened between krybe and this girl, and he lied about it in the beginning hoping he could come to a settlement with her. You can bury your head in the sand, hold your hands to your ears, and babble incorhirently but it doesn't change that fact that krybe is not the person you thought he was.

I guess this is what happens when kids grow up without being held responsible for their actions. It would really be nice to think that justice will be served in this case, but I will not be so optomistic.

Go Spurs....

ducks

08-05-2003, 01:45 PM

I wonder if going straight into the nba from high school has played a role in this?

Tawnia79

08-05-2003, 01:51 PM

that doesn't change the fact that krybe lied to the team about getting surgury on his knee

what are you talking about???

And no Ducks, it's in the Vail Daily, the local paper out in Eagle Colorado.

Something did happen between Kobe and this girl, but that does not make him a criminal.

There are a lot of rumors going around that have absolutely no truth to them... it's just a shame that a lot of those are the ones getting the most attention. The disturbance calls and now this bellboy story have both been denied by several sources.

And just for the record, I'm not burying my head in the sand in any of this. If he did do what this girl claims he did, he needs to be punished for it. I'm just praying that nothing criminal happened, and I'll stick by him until the day his conviction is handed down, and I hope that day never happens.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-05-2003, 01:53 PM

2cleva,

1 - Kori - You said Kobe's story has changed. Publically, that isn't true at all. Only people talking about the case is all the girl's friends that she's been around. If anyone is proved to be lying its them. Bray, family spokesperson said she drove home alone, another said they drove her. Its like even they can't get their facts straight.

Ehhhhh, wrong. Kobe at first said he didn't know the girl and would never do anything like that. Then when charges are filed he has the whole sobbing "I committed adultery" press conference. So he's already lied.

2 - If there were marks on her, Kobe would have been arrested on the spot for assault, not aloud to fly home, make arrangements to come in after the holiday, then called in before the holiday. Assault and battery at the very least. Plus, the DA wouldn't have said anything about not being sure to press charges or been a 2 week delay.

Not true at all. The victim has to request charges be filed, otherwise the poolice have no grounds for arresting her.

As for the DA taking two weeks, it's called dotting your i's and crossing your t's so that Kobe doesn't get off on some minor technicality when his high priced high clout legal team gets involved.

3 - Which leads to 3 - the public doesn't know jack about what happen. Best to wait until the trial or the case is opened when you can make a rational decision.

Of course, it's not like you haven't jumped to conclusions in saying that her friends are all liars or that they don't have their facts straight. I mean it's not like Kobe's people and all these "we love Kobe" dumbfucks haven't been running around dragging this girl's rep through the mud or anything. Gimme a break.

4 - If Kobe raped her, he deserves jail time. If he didn't, then he did nothing illegal. No one should think of themselves as the moral police so if he cheated on his spouse (like over half of Americans do) thats on him. Only his maker can judge that. He without sin should cast the first stone.

Well, if he didn't he can't get thrown in jail for adultery, but his wife damn sure can divorce his ass *legally* and take a lot of his bank account and possessions with her because of it.

I don't see how bringing up the fact other people cheat somehow props up your argument, that's some lame, weak shit man. You gonna use that as an excuse to cheat on your wife one day? "Sorry honey, other people do it, I hope you understand."

Whatever.

Kobe: Don't hate cuz I got the Magic Stick!

That's right, hate because you are a rapist, a liar, and an adulterer.

AHF

ducks

08-05-2003, 01:54 PM

vail daily has a website. link (http://www.vaildaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage)

I might see if Ifind it if I have time

ducks

08-05-2003, 01:55 PM

Two more rumors bite the dust

Ride home and torn clothing just not true, sources say

Two more reports regarding the Kobe Bryant case circulating among part of the national media were debunked Monday.
Media reports that the 19-year-old woman who Bryant allegedly assaulted received a ride home is not the case, sources said Monday. Reports that her clothing was torn are also untrue, sources also.
Sources told the Daily that the alleged victim managed to get herself home by 11:50 p.m., June 30, after ending the shift at the Lodge at Cordillera at around 11:10 p.m.
They also said that while her clothing was disheveled and showed signs that something had occurred, it wasn't torn or ripped, as some reports indicated.
"Some of the reports made it sound like something out of a bad movie," said one source. "It wasn't like that."
The reports are part of a larger set of rumors and gossip that have been circulating across the country about the case. Among them:
- That the alleged victim was in the room two hours. It was only about 20 minutes.
- When she came down, she was hysterical. She was not. Sources said she was in a stupor and a state of shock.
- A few days before the incident, the alleged victim had accused another hotel worker of sexual harassment, getting him fired. Not true, said the man who was terminated. It was not the alleged victim.
Cameras in court
Eagle County Judge Fred Gannett ruled that not only is Bryant required to appear at 4 p.m. Wednesday, he also ruled Monday that there will be cameras in the courtroom.
Gannett denied a motion by Bryant's attorneys asking Gannett to reconsider an earlier order allowing one video camera and one still camera in the courtroom while Bryant is advised of the charges against him, and also advised of his rights.scoop (http://www.vaildaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030804/NEWS/308040101)

gospurs21

08-05-2003, 01:56 PM

^^^
Krybe didn't tell the team (his employer) that he was going to go get surgury for his knee. He should have disclosed this to the lakers as it direct effects them. By hiding this from his teammates, his coaches and the team doctors this will effect his creditability. If he was hiding this from his employers, what else is he hiding.

Why don't you tell me what Krybe was doing in Colorado, if it wasn't for knee surgury.

Go Spurs...

Tawnia79

08-05-2003, 02:10 PM

Krybe didn't tell the team (his employer) that he was going to go get surgury for his knee. He should have disclosed this to the lakers as it direct effects them

No where in this statement does it indicate he LIED to them. The surgery he had was a very simple one, maybe it was something that commonly happens and he didn't think it was a big deal to tell them about it. To demonstrate how simple the surgery was, he was walking on it immediately afterwards.

KoriEllis

08-05-2003, 02:28 PM

Tawnia, the Lakers have gone on record that it's extremely unusual for a player to get surgery without their knowledge.

Tawnia79

08-05-2003, 02:34 PM

Tawnia, the Lakers have gone on record that it's extremely unusual for a player to get surgery without their knowledge

I understand that, but he HAD the surgery, I don't understand what the issue is here...

CosmicCowboyXXX

08-05-2003, 02:38 PM

That the alleged victim was in the room two hours. It was only about 20 minutes.

dang...

get her clothes off, wham bam thank you maam, get her clothes back on and back to the lobby in 20 minutes?

wow...

the guy obviously doesn't believe in foreplay....sounds like he was lucky (or unlucky) he didn't cum in his pants...
:lol

KoriEllis

08-05-2003, 02:41 PM

The issue is:

1) He had surgery without telling the Lakers. (Was he going to tell them if he hadn't got caught?)

2) He initially said that he didn't know the girl.

3) Then he said he flirted with her.

4) Finally he said that he had sex with her.

Lying is a pattern.

I like Kobe a lot. But it makes you doubt the rest of the story.

I understand that as a Laker/Kobe fan, this must all be incredibly frustrating. I can't imagine if this were Tim Duncan. There are so many rumors that it's impossible to know the truth.

But my point of posting the claims of the bellmen were because, IF true, this changes everything.

It's extremely difficult to prove the sex wasn't consentual. I don't even think that there are torn clothes, etc. But if there were marks on her face and neck, it's no longer "he said, she said".

Tawnia79

08-05-2003, 02:46 PM

I never once remember Kobe saying he didn't know her... Is there an article or something you can link to this? I've pretty much kept up with everything that's happened and I hadn't heard this at all. He just said that he wouldn't do "that," now the word "that" is up for interpretation... Did it mean he didn't sleep with her or he didn't assault her?

And let me say that if there are marks on her face, I wonder where and what they look like. I get red marks on my face if I kiss my boyfriend after he hasn't shaved in a day or two.

2Cleva

08-05-2003, 02:46 PM

Aggie -

1 - Kobe was talking about the charge, not whether he committed adultry. A HUGE difference.

2 - With markings there would have been assault charges off the bat. Forget rape, he would have been arrested off the bat for that.

3 - Are you talking about fans (who don't mean a thing) or public speakers? There have been people who've publically had Kobe's back through friendship but you haven't seen his lawyers commenting back to every little thing, and he's only had the one appearance. All the "leaks" and lies have been right out of Vail.

4 - No one judges your relationship. What he does off the court is not my business.

5 - The tag is a joke.

KoriEllis

08-05-2003, 02:51 PM

And let me say that if there are marks on her face, I wonder where and what they look like. I get red marks on my face if I kiss my boyfriend after he hasn't shaved in a day or two.

I thought about that same thing.

I guess it depends on how long the marks lasted, if they turned to bruises, etc.

I'll look for something about him not knowing her.

adidas11

08-05-2003, 03:17 PM

I've been keeping pretty silent on the whole issue, from the start, mainly because I don't even know what's going on, and there is a lot of info that still hasn't come to light (I think most of the info so far has been bogus speculation from the press and Vail).

I'll be honest. At first, I thought there was no way Kobe would have raped the girl. But as of right now, I'm sort of wavering on the issue. You hear and read so much from the press, and even on this message board, that for me I'm thinking one way one day, and another way the next day.

Without reading into what we've heard so far, the fact that the girl was willing to risk public humiliation (a big reason why many women don't come forward when they are actually raped) speaks volumes to me. I was talking about this with a buddy while we were out at a bar a few days ago. I mean, generally a women won't "cry wolf" in a situation like this. And this thing is going to follow her around for the rest of her life, whether it's true or not. THAT is why I'm not so sure about Kobe's innocence.

2Cleva

08-05-2003, 03:40 PM

addidas - I hear you. I had those same doubts until her friends started going on about how she tried to commit suicide, attention straved, etc...

It take someone who knows they are telling the truth or someone with serious issues to come foward. She could easily be either, one of them, or both.

KoriEllis

08-05-2003, 03:46 PM

I had those same doubts until her friends started going on about how she tried to commit suicide, attention straved, etc...

Just curious Cleva. How do you believe all those stories ^^^ but anything against Kobe that comes out of Vail you have deemed "leaks and lies"?

ducks

08-05-2003, 03:46 PM

I think he raped her. Because if she was just golddigging why go to the police? she could have just been paid to keep quiet and got a $$$ out of it.

Question: If a 19-year-old plotted to get dough from Kobe, why did she go public by which to make her a moving target? Scheming minds would have gone directly to Kobe via her attorney to force a pay off.
Question: If a girl were going after the cash, why tell all to the police? Get the money and then go home to count the take.scoop (http://bigjweb.com/artman/publish/article_668.shtml)

adidas11

08-05-2003, 03:51 PM

2Cleva, and Kori,

I've taken the stance that I don't believe ANYTHING that comes from the media concerning statements from person's other than Kobe or this woman. To me, everything else is just rumor and speculation.

And Aggie brings up a great point. Everyone who says that Kobe doesn't seem like the kind of person who would do something like this needs to reexamine their thinking. Heck, I never thought Kobe would be the type of person who would commit adultery. So if that was proven wrong, who is to say that he would not rape someone?

It's not like men out there have "potential raper" written across their forehead. These instances usually happen when everyone least expects it.

timvp

08-05-2003, 04:02 PM

Laker homers are disgusting in this thread. If the victim was your sister or your friend, you'd think of this differently.

Don't apologize for him when all we know for sure so far is he cheated on his wife and could have raped that girl.

The sickest part is if this was a Spur, the same Laker fans would be in here calling him a rapist.

ducks

08-05-2003, 04:03 PM

Most recently, ESPN and ABC News reported that Kobe gave conflicting statements to the police when the incident first occurred. Suggestions of a less-than-truthful Kobe only adds to the general erosion of his image in the public eye.
scoop (http://msnbc.com/news/947825.asp)

HollywoodKobe

08-05-2003, 04:16 PM

Kori is a hater. he he he
Kobe did not do it everybody. I was in the hotel room under the bed. I saw the whole thing. My account will be in the Vail Daily tomorrow morning.

Seriously I wouldn't put it past this chick to run face-first into a wall so she'd have some marks to show or maybe she went "fight club" and started beating herself up. Whatever. Nobody knows. Unless they have hard evidence linking bruises other than in the sexual areas to Kobe, he's going to walk.

As for lying, he did what any man would do that got caught cheating. I don't now her. Ok, I flirted with her. Ok, I slept with her. What man would not follow that same path if caught? In fact, most men would just deny until the end, but in this case, there are police and a case involved so Kobe couldn't do what any man would do. Seems logical to me.

That being said, If Kobe raped this girl, I hope he never sees the light of day again.

2Cleva

08-05-2003, 04:17 PM

timvp - If it was personal, of course I'd feel different. Its a lot easier to be objective when there is no emotional attachment.

Same thing about Iverson last summer. But if he's guilty he deserves punisgment. I'm just not convicting him before the court does. Innocent until proven guilty still means something to me.

ducks - Again, bad for Kobe if thats true. But more than one report out of Vail has proven to be false and the DA said that Kobe was "extremely cooperative" in his initial press conference.

KoriEllis

08-05-2003, 04:21 PM

Kori is a hater. he he he

:lol Hi Hollywood.

I guess you missed it when I said that I felt sorry for Kobe at his press conference. I really want to believe him.

adidas11

08-05-2003, 04:33 PM

TimVP, get a clue. The fact remains that the victim is not my sister or friend, and I don't know WHAT happened up there in Vail. I'm not convicting either Kobe or the woman right now, because I don't know what happened. As far as Kobe commiting adultery, shit happens. That falls in line with my belief that marriage really shouldn't exist. But that's for another topic at another time and place.

It's my hope that a crime wasn't commited at all, but if one was, than the guilty needs to punished accordingly.

:next3

Tawnia79

08-05-2003, 05:04 PM

That's a little harsh TimVP... the fact is we're not related to this girl, don't know how credible her story is, and don't know anything about the situation other than what has been admitted. Kobe screwed up, that much I know... I'm not excusing that behavior, but until there is a guilty verdict handed down, I'm going to trust in his innocence. You're wanting us to immediately believe her story and dismiss anything pro-Kobe... as Kobe fans and knowing more about him than we do this girl, well, I'm just not going to do that.

And I for one would most certainly NOT be calling anyone a rapist prior to a conviction regardless of what jersey they wear.

bigzak25

08-05-2003, 05:07 PM

what's with the

if it was your daughter or sister points of view...

of course we'd take there side...

and if it was my son who told me that he did not rape this girl, and she's lying, guess what, i'd be on his side.....

obviously i'd be pissed at my son for putting himself in that situation in the first place...

BUT
i'd be equally pissed at my daughter for putting herself in that situation as well....

CosmicCowboyXXX

08-05-2003, 05:22 PM

http://rosecity.net/rushtoon/sex_offender2.jpg

:Q

Will the Lakers have to post sex offender signs at Staples Center?

http://media.abcnews.com/media/US/images/sex_offender_010529_fp.gif

Flipmode master

08-05-2003, 05:43 PM

Bottomline NO ONE nows what happen.So I think its absurd and premature to say Kobe is guilty or not.

ducks

08-05-2003, 05:51 PM

well I know one thing he is gulity of having ateast sex with the one pressing charges. and buying his wife 4 million dollar ring in trying to ask forgiveness

Tawnia79

08-05-2003, 06:46 PM

and buying his wife 4 million dollar ring in trying to ask forgiveness

Although that's the way it looks, you don't KNOW that that is the reason he bought her that ring.

adidas11

08-05-2003, 06:59 PM

His dumbass should have never gotten married in the first place.

ducks

08-05-2003, 07:04 PM

I do not follow why you think marriage is wrong and stupid

just because some people can not make it work. others can and it is not that bad. it takes 2 commited people. but it is special and can work.

adidas11

08-05-2003, 07:07 PM

Ducks, this has nothing to do with how I feel about marriage. I just think Kobe was too young to get married, PERIOD. He was 21 (or 22) when he tied the know. No one should get married before the age of 30, in my opinion.

tlongII

08-05-2003, 07:09 PM

Most married men cheat on their wives. That is a fact of life.

:blah

Tawnia79

08-05-2003, 07:18 PM

Most married men cheat on their wives. That is a fact of life

I know quite a few married men that would completely disagree with you

Ed Helicopter Jones

08-05-2003, 07:50 PM

Most married men cheat on their wives. That is a fact of life.

MOST is a little strong, don't you think, Tlong.

Maybe "most" applies to married men in the backwoods of Ory-gone, but not to the general population. But then again, most married men in Oregon are merely cheating on their sisters anyway. . .and if cousin Melba ain't tellin'. . .well. . .it probbly ain't really cheatin' now is it?

Shelly

08-05-2003, 08:42 PM

No one should get married before the age of 30, in my opinion. :rolleyes

And this is because??

adidas11

08-05-2003, 08:46 PM

It's because I don't think adults are mature enough until that age, for the most part. During your twenties, you change so much, personally and professionally, that you don't really gain a true sense of who you are until you hit your thirties.

Especially someone who is only 21 or 22. It's been proven that the divorce rates for couples who get married under the age of 28 compared to over the age of 28 is a HUGE difference. (with the under having a larger percentage of divorces)

Shelly

08-05-2003, 09:04 PM

All my friends were married before 30 and are still going strong.

My husband was just about to turn 22 when we got married and I had just turned 24. We've been married for 13-1/2 years. We had our kids before we turned 30. If anything, it matured us.

There's no magical age when maturity happens.

Truthsayer

08-05-2003, 09:07 PM

Most married men cheat on their wives. That is a fact of life.

First time I've ever agreed with tlong on anything. I also think most women cheat on their husbands.

BUT, that doesn't mean that I believe all men or women cheat or that they should cheat.

I think Kobe raped this girl. That doesn't mean that I think his guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I'll wait to hear the evidence at trial before I reach a conclusion on that. But from what I've heard so far, I think he did it.

adidas11

08-05-2003, 09:13 PM

Shelly, you're pulling out remote instances. The numbers don't lie. People who get married below the age of 28 have a much larger percentage of divorce rates than those who get married above the age of 28.

And besides, I don't believe in the institution of marriage anyhow. :)

Shelly

08-05-2003, 09:21 PM

maybe so--but I don't live by averages and what statistics say. These numbers change constantly. I'm just stating what I know to be true in my life and people I know.

And for the record, I don't think everyone should get married and/or have kids. It's your own personal decision. :wink

Flipmode master

08-05-2003, 09:54 PM

I never thought I would say this but........:lol ...I agree with Adidas.Kobe really didn't give himself a chance to experiment,or shop around.He got married to young IMO. Marriage should happen in mid or late 20's,and up IMO.Thats the way see it.

KoriEllis

08-05-2003, 10:26 PM

Getting married young doesn't work for a lot of people because marriage takes maturity and dedication. But it does work for some. I know people who married in their early 20's and have last decades. And I know some who married in their late 30's and didn't last a year.

Tawnia79

08-05-2003, 11:34 PM

My parents were both married at 18 and have been together for over 28 years... they are also the most sickeningly happy couple I've ever seen

RuffnReadyOzStyle

08-05-2003, 11:41 PM

Lots of conflicting arguments here, but truth be told none of us know a damn thing about what happened - it`s all piecemeal evidence, some of it true and some of it lies and distortions, and trial by media is one of the most disgusting things permeating western society today. How the hell are they going to find an impartial jury??? Whoever decides the case (maybe it`ll be down to a judge?), I just hope they can sort out the wheat from the chaff...

I hope Kobe gets what he deserves (whether that`s jail for 20 years or acquittal), but I doubt that will happen. He may well have committed the crime and get off as with OJ, or not committed it and go to prison as with thousands of inmates - as we`ve seen in the past too many times, justice is a fallacious concept today, especially for the rich. But whichever way the criminal case goes, I bet the girl gets a large undisclosed sum in civil proceedings, and Kobe cannot blame anyone but himself for not keeping it in his pants. Fool.

Sad, bloody sad for all concerned, is all I know. The media is the only winner here...

pseudofan

08-05-2003, 11:41 PM

Marriage should happen when two people are in love and are willing to accept the extremely delicate commitment of marriage. That can be at any age......

I was married one month after my 16th birthday (NO I WAS NOT PREGNANT!) and my "husband to be" turned 19 two days before our wedding.

16 years later, we are still married. It's not always easy and I'm sure the doubts and temptations were present many times in the marriage. But we are two extremely responsible, strong willed, dedicated people who happened to be lucky enough to realize what love is even though we were young.

Kobe is a trifling punk ass. Period. No excuse for cheating on your wife. I'm sure at the time, he never realized what the lasting effect that act would have on so many people. And he has to now live with the fact that he may not like himself so much. That's pretty harsh consequence in itself. But his choice non the less.

Kobe, here's to you moron::vomit

Shelly

08-05-2003, 11:53 PM

Wow, pseudo! That's awesome!

My parents got married when they were 23 and will be celebrating their 44th wedding anniversary in Nov.

SequSpur

08-06-2003, 12:19 AM

Dude, now I am going to be renamed Cradle Robberer...

Thanks a lot.

heykim

08-06-2003, 01:44 AM

for being stupid enough to think that kobe thought of her as anything but a .. a... well... a easy lay...

heykim

08-06-2003, 01:45 AM

came when he pushed her out the door and said... uh... thanks ... you can leave now...

heykim

08-06-2003, 01:47 AM

cane from her saying... I JUST HAD SEX WITH KOBE... I COULD JUST PINCH MYSELF...

heykim

08-06-2003, 01:49 AM

who knows... heck.. i am still trying to figure out if scott peterson is guilty or not..

Nbadan

08-06-2003, 04:55 AM

now you are just being silly and grasping at straws. None of those things really matter in this case...get used to it. That is just history the media is using to try the case in the forum of public opinion. It only works with the feable minded tabeloid reading masses.

--

To say that none of those things matter is absurd at best, and delusional at worst.

I guess a little thing called creditability doesn't matter in your backward neck of the woods, but in most of civilized society, it will make or break you.

Kobe cheated on his wife and did what any other man would do if they found themselves confronted with the same situation - he tried to lie about it - it never happened, then something happened, but it isn't really what you think, OK, I slept with her but she meant nothing to me..yada, yada, yada...

Who are we to judge? Maybe the Bryants have a 'open' relationship? We don't know.

My point is is that if you want to lay judgement on Kobe because he had a affair on his wife, you should just come out and say so instead of making up lame excuses blaming the media for presenting Kobe in a way you don't like or knew to be inaccurate, and deceiving probably only the most gullible among us anyway.

T Park Num 9

08-06-2003, 05:11 AM

Im glad that cheating on your wife is OK now a days with people.

Excited peoples morals have sunk that low, thanks Bill CLinton.

Im waiting till the trial to hear the evidence. SO far it doesnt sound good.

But even if there was enough evidence, hes too rich to get convicted. Hell get off like OJ.

I have 0 confidence in our justice system.

ITs fucked beyond belief and OJ and other rich peeps have proved that.

The tort system is pathetic too, but thats another topic for another time.

Nbadan

08-06-2003, 06:01 AM

Hey, if you, or anyone else who reads this post, feels bad cause you think Kobe let you down, personally, join the rest of us, but its OK to express that disappointment without also insinuating that he is a convicted rapist before he has had a chance to defend himself before the best judicial system on the planet.

Ghost Writer

08-06-2003, 10:34 AM

What exactly is "vaginal trauma"?
:Q

:cooldevil

CosmicCowboyXXX

08-06-2003, 10:38 AM

What exactly is "vaginal trauma"?

I assume a real world analogy would be like trying to park a VIA bus in your garage...

MannyIsGod

08-06-2003, 10:56 AM

roflmfao @ CC

Should Kobe have gotten married? obviously not, com'on now.

I don't know if the bastard did jit, but at the least he's a liar and an adulterer and I hate the way he's handled the situation. This is not a basketball game where you can't show weakness, you think the guy could be humble for one godamn minute.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-06-2003, 11:05 AM

I guess a little thing called creditability doesn't matter in your backward neck of the woods, but in most of civilized society, it will make or break you.

You want to talk about creditability? Fine. Kobe has lied three times, I'd say his is pretty much shot as well. He lied to his team about surgery, and lied about interacting with the alleged victim.

Why is it okay to run the alleged victim down but Kobe's a fucking saint when he's already lied to us all on this matter more than once? Rather hypocritical if you ask me.

Kobe cheated on his wife and did what any other man would do if they found themselves confronted with the same situation - he tried to lie about it - it never happened, then something happened, but it isn't really what you think, OK, I slept with her but she meant nothing to me..yada, yada, yada...

He wasn't confronted with an adultery charge, he was confronted with a rape charge.

Who are we to judge? Maybe the Bryants have a 'open' relationship? We don't know.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and put together his pathetic sobbing "I'm sorry I cheated on you" press conference and that 4 million dollar diamond ring and say you're wrong on that one. You're looking more and more pathetic in your attempts to defend him.

My point is is that if you want to lay judgement on Kobe because he had a affair on his wife, you should just come out and say so instead of making up lame excuses blaming the media for presenting Kobe in a way you don't like or knew to be inaccurate, and deceiving probably only the most gullible among us anyway.

Give me a fucking break. You're saying we are wrong for laying judgement on Kobe but then turning around and saying it's perfectly fine, hell almost insisting that we all lay judgement on the victim's creditability because of some things that happened in her past.

Quit being such a fucking hypocrite.

AHF

Tawnia79

08-06-2003, 01:09 PM

He lied to his team about surgery, and lied about interacting with the alleged victim

He didn't TELL the team about the surgery - That does not equal lying to them. Strange that he wouldn't - absolutely, but that does not make him a liar.

To my knowledge, and Kori said she'd try to find something that proved me wrong, Kobe has never denied knowing the girl. He simply said he wouldn't do "that" which could very well mean he did not assault her. Not a denial of a relationship with her, only a denial of assault.

Kobe's character has taken a hit, but very little of his credibility has been damaged, IMO, at least when it comes to the general public. A majority of the people voicing their opinions say that they do not believe he did it.

SequSpur

08-06-2003, 01:12 PM

but very little of his credibility has been damaged

BS!

Uhh... one day.. uhh.. I didn't do anything...

Next day.. uhh.. she came into my room...

Next day.. uhh.. We had consensual sex and I committed adultery...

Next day.. uhh.. 4 million dollar ring.

Sounds like a Rapist to me.

pseudofan

08-06-2003, 02:06 PM

A lie is a lie Tawnia.....

He didn't TELL the team about the surgery - That does not equal lying to them. Strange that he wouldn't - absolutely, but that does not make him a liar.

Let's put that statement into perspective. In order to do that we'll substitute some words, but the gist remains the same:

He didn't TELL the girlfriend (or wife, or whatever) about the AIDS (or the affair, or whatever) - That does not equal lying to her. Strange that he wouldn't - absolutely, but that does not make him a liar.

There.....I think you would feel differently about that statement now huh?

Let's not let our admiration of the guys ball playing skill blind us into making excuses for him.....

HE'S A F-ING LIAR. A CHEATER. A PIECE OF CRAP WITH VERY LITTLE REGARD FOR ANYONE BUT HIMSELF.

:(

ducks

08-06-2003, 02:40 PM

kobe would have had to talk to the trainers from the lakers. he must have said his knee was fine. if they did not say he needed surgery. Lakers were suprised he had surgery. he went behind his boss's back and had surgery. when you get paid to perform by playing basketball using your body that is wrong.

2Cleva

08-06-2003, 02:46 PM

Actually, the Laker trainers knew there was something wrong with Kobe's knee. The fact he was going to have surgery wasn't a shock, just the timing he did it, without consulting them first.

Very common in sports for athletes to get outside opinions because they know that the organization is always about their best interests before the player.

KoriEllis

08-06-2003, 02:47 PM

I understood that the Lakers doctors thought he didn't need surgery but enouraged him to get a second opinion. He then got the opinion and got surgery. The Lakers said it was unusual for a player not to tell them they were having surgery and not to use their doctors.

I guess it's just withholding information rather than lying. Kind of like when Sprewell neglected to tell the Knicks he broke his arm.

Nbadan

08-06-2003, 04:01 PM

He lied to his team about surgery, and lied about interacting with the alleged victim.

See, the problem here is that your falling for all the media reports, whether they are true or not, and using them to help prove a lost cause. Kobe didn't lie to the team about having surgery and he didn't lie about knowing the victim, he lied about the affair to try and protect his marriage. If you wanna chastise him for having an affair that's one thing, but it doesn't make him a rapist.

Why is it okay to run the alleged victim down but Kobe's a fucking saint when he's already lied to us all on this matter more than once? Rather hypocritical if you ask me.

I don't see why your getting so worked up about this, nobody is claiming that Kobe is a saint. All I said was that if you believe that people live the lives put out by their publisist, or their fronts, your gonna be let down a lot in your life, so get used to it.

He wasn't confronted with an adultery charge, he was confronted with a rape charge.

Wrong. Kobe wasn't charged with rape until two weeks after, so he had no reason to defend himself against those accusations. Initially, he lied about the adultry charge, but then recanted when the state investigated the affair based on the young ladies accusations. If anything, the two week hiatus between the incident and charges being filed, didn't happen because prosecutors wanted to dot the I's and cross the t's as some people in this forum have claimed, but because the DA thought that the state had a very weak case - which it does.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and put together his pathetic sobbing "I'm sorry I cheated on you" press conference and that 4 million dollar diamond ring and say you're wrong on that one.

See, that is exactly was I am talking about, your falling for the front that they are putting out to save their image in the media. Your not in the Bryants bedroom. How do you know what's going on between Kobe and Vannessa?

Give me a fucking break. You're saying we are wrong for laying judgement on Kobe but then turning around and saying it's perfectly fine, hell almost insisting that we all lay judgement on the victim's creditability because of some things that happened in her past.

Quit being such a fucking hypocrite.

Dude, nobodies being a hypocrite, all I'm saying is stop the hate because when this case is settled for a misdemenor assault and battery charge, or something silly like that, and the victim gets a very big payday, it's gonna make you Kobe haters look very foolish.

But don't worry, we won't be holding our breath for a apology. :moon

ducks

08-06-2003, 05:04 PM

Accuser alleged she tried to leave Bryant's hotel room
EAGLE, Colo. -- As Kobe Bryant was just hours away from a court hearing in Eagle, Colo., more reports came to surface Wednesday regarding the sexual assault case involving the Los Angeles Lakers star.

According to several sources familiar with the case, ABC News reported Wednesday that the accuser alleged that she tried to leave Bryant's hotel room and he blocked the door.

Bryant is charged with felony sexual assault against the 19-year-old woman who worked at the exclusive resort hotel Lodge & Spa at Cordillera when Bryant stayed there June 30. Bryant, who is free on $25,000 bond, has said the sex was consensual.

ABC News was also told that examiners found evidence that the alleged victim had "vaginal tearing." Prosecutors could argue this is not consistent with consensual sex. Experts say the defense could rebut this in several ways, including that vaginal tearing could be sustained during consensual sex, or was not incurred during sex with Bryant.

Sources also say the sheriff's original arrest warrant included a misdemeanor claim of false imprisonment. The prosecutor did not ultimately include a false imprisonment claim in the charging document.

One reason may be that prosecutors do not like to give the jury the option of finding guilt on a lesser offense as a way of compromising. That does not mean they cannot include the allegation at trial.

Bryant is scheduled to attend a preliminary hearing today at the Eagle County Justice Center at approximately 6 p.m. ET. Bryant will be read the charges against him but will not be asked to make a plea. Eagle County Judge Frederick Gannett will advise Bryant of his rights, the charge and the possible penalty. If convicted, he faces four years to life in prison or 20 years to life on probation, and a fine of up to $750,000.

The session, which begins at 6 p.m. ET, is expected to be brief, but the stark pictures and video of the 24-year-old NBA superstar in court will leave an enduring image.

Bryant hoped to avoid his initial appearance, but Gannett ruled otherwise. Bryant's attorneys also lost their battle to keep cameras out of the courtroom.

Now, Bryant begins the formal part of what could be a long legal fight of a felony charge that has damaged his reputation and could put him in prison.

Greg Crittenden, an attorney in the district attorney's office, told the judge last week that the case required special treatment.

"We're dealing with a celebrity that's recognized worldwide and for that reason we have to look at this not as any other case,'' Crittenden said.

A trial appears inevitable, unless Bryant's attorneys can persuade the judge to throw the case out for lack of evidence at his preliminary hearing. Even if they are successful, the evidence made public at the hearing will probably further stain the once clean-cut image of one of America's most celebrated athletes.

"Once the accusation is brought to the police it's almost impossible to settle it,'' said Florida attorney Roy Black, who won an acquittal for William Kennedy Smith in a 1991 rape trial. "If he pleads guilty he loses endorsements and his popularity as a player.''

With a smile as dazzling as his play, Bryant was a superstar who made all the right moves and said all the right things.

Now, he is an admitted adulterer, at the very least, and he has already lost one endorsement.

Bryant's wife, Vanessa, sat by his side at an extraordinary news conference where he said the sex with his accuser was consensual.

The woman will never be the same, either. She is well known in Eagle, and her friends at first were more than eager to discuss the woman's virtues and what they thought were her faults.

Bryant is to begin preseason practice late next month with the Lakers in Hawaii. The judge has put no restrictions on his travel.

The Associated Press contributed to this report. sports.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=1591387 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/story?id=1591387)

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-06-2003, 05:22 PM

See, the problem here is that your falling for all the media reports, whether they are true or not, and using them to help prove a lost cause.

Unlike you citing media reports of random joe schmoes at college saying she was a whore, or the reports of suicide, etc by her to justify that she's somehow lacking creditability...

Pot...kettle..black.

I don't see why your getting so worked up about this, nobody is claiming that Kobe is a saint. All I said was that if you believe that people live the lives put out by their publisist, or their fronts, your gonna be let down a lot in your life, so get used to it.

Thanks for proving my point. People like you are saying "oh Kobe would never do that, he's a class guy." Where does that image come from....... his publicists.

Wrong. Kobe wasn't charged with rape until two weeks after, so he had no reason to defend himself against those accusations. Initially, he lied about the adultry charge, but then recanted when the state investigated the affair based on the young ladies accusations. If anything, the two week hiatus between the incident and charges being filed, didn't happen because prosecutors wanted to dot the I's and cross the t's as some people in this forum have claimed, but because the DA thought that the state had a very weak case - which it does.

How do you know the state has a weak case. Did you read it in the paper. Don't believe everything you read.

Geez, on the one hand you lecture us all that we need to wait and see the facts, on the other hand you're already dismissing the DA's case as weak. H Y P O C R I T E.

See, that is exactly was I am talking about, your falling for the front that they are putting out to save their image in the media. Your not in the Bryants bedroom. How do you know what's going on between Kobe and Vannessa?

What front exactly are you talking about? That's my own conclusion, I could GAF what CNN says.

Dude, nobodies being a hypocrite, all I'm saying is stop the hate because when this case is settled for a misdemenor assault and battery charge, or something silly like that, and the victim gets a very big payday, it's gonna make you Kobe haters look very foolish.

You are very much being the hypocrite here in this thread. You have

1) said the victim lacked credability
2) said the DA's case was weak
3) said we should not believe everything we read in the papers

while at the same time using those same media reports and the like to justify that the victim lacks credability, the case is weak, and that "we're only seeing what his publicist wants us to see."

So which is it? If you can't trust anything being put out in the media, why can your dumb ass use it to justify your arguments and run down ours? That's hypocritical.

But don't worry, we won't be holding our breath for a apology.

That's right, you're in the wrong on this one. Get a clue.

AHF

ducks

08-06-2003, 06:27 PM

: Let's just say for a minute that this does go to trial and he is convicted what will happen at the sentencing? Do you think he gets probation or jail time or both?
John Pineau: (5:17 PM ET ) If he were to get jail time, it's a mandatory life sentence. That's because of the recent changes in Colorado law. If he gets probation, he could still end up with a mandatory life sentence in the Department of Corrections, prison. For example, is he gets probation, it will be for an incredibly long term, typically 10-20 years. The success rate of sex offenders on probation in Colorado, the number that successfully complete probation, is nearly zero. It's not due to new criminal acts, it's because the offense specific treatment is strikingly severe and difficult to complete and added to that is the fear of the treatment providers to release anyone from probation because of their concern that they might be held responsible is the offender reoffends. The result is the offenders stay on probation forever or are revoked, sent back to the court where the court is place in a position of sentencing the offender to the mandatory life sentence that is required under Colorado law for sex offenders. proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=3838 (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=3838)