Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Wizards - Feb. 6

[timvp]

With the Wizards sans both Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler, the Spurs were able to pull away late to secure their third straight victory. It was far from a pretty performance for San Antonio, but a win is a win at this point. I’ve seen too much losing over the last couple months to complain too much about an 85-77 victory.

The defense for the Spurs was impressive. It was obviously made easier since the Spurs didn’t need to worry about Arenas or Butler but whenever you hold a team to 77 points on 35.4% shooting from the field, you are doing a good job defensively.

Offensively, the Spurs regressed a bit from their 116 point showing on Tuesday against the Pacers. But really, I was still relatively happy with the offense. The Spurs had 26 assists on 32 field goals, which is a sign of very good ball movement. The Spurs only scored 85 points because they shot 6-for-22 from beyond the arc and 15-for-23 from the free throw line.

For the Wizards, the player that stood out was Andray Blatche. Blatche, who was starting in place of Butler, had 16 points, 15 rebounds and two blocks. He’s an intriguing talent because he’s exceptionally long, he’s a good athlete and he has surprisingly refined perimeter skills. Standing 6-foot-11 and only 21, Blatche has a chance to be a good player in a couple seasons.

Overall, the Spurs played just well enough to win. Any three-game winning streak without a member of the Big Three is a good winning streak.

-Tim Duncan had an all around decent game. I thought his intensity wasn’t as high as it’s been in recent contests but he was productive. Duncan finished with 23 points, nine rebounds, four assists and three turnovers, while knocking down 9-of-16 field goal attempts in 37 minutes. Duncan’s streak of 12 straight road games with a double-double was snapped. He also broke his streak of 13 straight games with a blocked shot. All that said, Duncan had more than twice as many points as anyone on the team and was the best player on the court despite not playing as well as possible.

-Manu Ginobili was being defended well and decided to pass the ball instead of forcing shots. The strategy worked as he finished with a career-high tying ten assists to go with only one turnover. Ginobili only had nine points on 3-for-8 shooting from the field, however his passing was a big part of the win. The Spurs have lost games recently in which Ginobili has forced too many shots. In fact, the Spurs have lost their last four games in which Ginobili has scored at least 20 points. I don’t know if Ginobili has made a conscious decision to get others involve rather than look for his own shot, but it’s the right decision at this time. If he’s only looking for his shot, it becomes The Tim and Manu Show while everyone else just stands around and watches.

-Damon Stoudamire once again got the start and once again played pretty well. He finished with nine points, four rebounds, three assists and no turnovers, while hitting 3-of-5 three-pointers in 22 minutes. I continue to be impressed with how Stoudamire has run the offense and has helped improve the ball movement. Although his defense is a work in progress and will never be a strong suit, he’s providing the playmaking that has been sorely lacking since Parker hurt his ankle.

-Bruce Bowen was mostly matched up against Antawn Jamison and did a good job of defending the Eastern Conference All-Star. Jamison finished with only 18 points on 5-for-14 shooting from the field. Jamison is bigger and stronger than Bowen but Bowen battled him pretty well. Offensively, Bowen forced a couple shots and made a few bad decisions. He finished with nine points on 3-for-7 from the floor, so it wasn’t a total disaster offensively for Bowen.

-Fabricio Oberto had his second consecutive very solid performance. In 30 minutes, Oberto had ten points, 11 rebounds, two assists, one steal and one block, while hitting 5-of-8 shots from the field. His energy level has been high the last two games after he was quiet for a couple weeks. When Oberto is alert and active, he’s almost the perfect complement next to Duncan in the middle.

-Jacque Vaughn once again played even harder than he usually plays. Since Stoudamire has been brought aboard, Vaughn has upped his aggression – especially offensively in terms of driving to the rim. He has historically been one of the worst players at finishing around the basket in NBA history. Over the last three games, you would think he has made a living driving the ball to the rim. On this night, Vaughn had eight points, two rebounds, two assists and no turnovers, while shooting 3-for-6 from the field in 26 minutes.

-Although Michael Finley continued to miss shots, he played a lot better tonight. His defense was active and he was playing hard all night. The only thing Finley didn’t do was shoot for a high percentage, which you have to live with when you rely on a streaky shooter. In 23 minutes, Finley finished with five points on 2-for-8 shooting from the floor.

-Don't look now but Robert Horry might actually be waking up from his season long slumber. For the second straight game, Horry knocked down 3-of-5 shots from the field. Horry finished with a season-high nine points and season-high tying six rebounds in 19 minutes of playing time. When the Spurs were making their run at the end of the third quarter and the beginning of the fourth, Horry was the best player on the court for the Spurs. If he can continue to defrost and revert back to the Horry we’ve become accustomed to watching, the Spurs will become a much better team. Against the Wizards, Horry finished tied with Ginobili in plus/minus at +12.

-Ime Udoka had a nightmare of a game on Wednesday night. In his 16 minutes, Udoka missed all five of his shots and had three turnovers. A disturbing streakiness has developed in Udoka’s game. Lately, he’s either been really good or really bad. For a bench role player on a championship level team, the Spurs need more consistency out of Udoka. Laying an egg like he did tonight could end up costing the Spurs an important game down the line.

-Francisco Elson found some rare meaningful minutes. He responded by playing like a seven-foot chicken with its head cut off. Some good plays but mostly horrible plays. It’s frustrating to watch him over the last couple months because he continues to regress further and further. Pretty soon, he might be unplayable. Then again, he has Matt Bonner behind him in the rotation and Bonner seems to be even lower on the totem pole. Tonight, Bonner saw as much playing time as you did.

-I thought Pop did a decent job overall. I didn’t agree with playing Ginobili over 34 minutes, especially in this stretch where the Spurs will be playing a lot of games. I also thought he called too many isolation plays when the pick-and-roll was working so well.

It’s interesting to see how Pop handles Stoudamire. Tonight when the game got close, he went back to Vaughn in what I assume is a move to put someone on the court who better knows the plays. That’s somewhat understandable but will Pop continue to fall back on his security blanket even if Stoudamire thoroughly outplays him? I guess we’ll find out.

It also appears that Pop’s patience with Horry might be paying off. For the first time perhaps all season, Pop went back to Horry late in the game because Horry was playing well and not because of Horry’s reputation. Eventually, Pop would love if Horry could get back to the level to where Pop can use Horry to close out games.

Next up for the Spurs is a game against the Knicks on Friday. I actually have a bad feeling about that game. The Spurs will come in riding high with a three-game win streak and could overlook the Knicks. Hopefully the Spurs can take care of New York but it has all the signs of a Spurs-like trap game.

On the whole, it’s good to see the Spurs back on the winning track. The Stoudamire move is working about as well as possible and the Spurs have a chance to make this yet another successful Rodeo Road Trip.

Believe.

:sombrero:

[DannyT]

rudy....rudy....rudy....Rudy...RUdy...RUDy...RUDY. ...

[Phenomanul]

:tu

[duncan228]

Thanks, as always timvp.
I really appreciate the time and effort these posts must take you, I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

Also as always, my first focus is Duncan. I agree that he did not have as great a game as he has of late. But I do think he was great defensively and that he continues to make the plays that matter. For me tonight it was the three point play with just under two minutes left in the game. He even showed some emotion, hitting the base of the basket when the ball went in and he got the call. Seeing him get fired up in a regular season game is a big statement. He's turned it on in the last month +, and I can't wait to see him rise into the playoffs Duncan. His turnovers have got to stop. I assume as the team is gelling more around him he will be able to pass out of the double teams quicker and not lose the ball.
His effeciency still amazes me. He's so quiet about it, so understated. I don't take my eyes off him and I can still miss how great he's playing. (I record the games for exactly this reason. It takes me a second time through to digest the game as a whole.)

I'm glad Horry is starting to thaw out. I think he still has something left in the tank to help this team try to repeat. It was nice to see him hit a few and to see Pop keep him in.

I agree with your assessment of the rest of the team. I'll leave it to others to break it down.

[Joe Schmoogins]

Thanks for the recap... I too was very impressed with Blatche. I was a little frustrated they didn't look for Duncan more often. It seemed as if he could get whatever he wanted when he didn't settle for what they gave him. It was also great to see Oberto step up, and Horry take another step in the right direction. I'm hoping Stoudamire can continue to knock down the three. But if he can, i fear it makes Barry more tradable who is someone I would not like to see leave.

[ploto]

I find it interesting that in so many ways, Elson seems to be following the path of Nazr- that is, a couple of games that get people excited, but as the end of his contract with the Spurs draws nearer, he seems to get worse. Elson may actually understand the Spurs even less in his second year than Nazr did- and that is saying alot!

PS I like Blatche, too- I saw him play well against the Raptors recently.

[dbreiden83080]

Damon is fitting in very well, once we get Tony back hopefully at 100%, his scoring will be even more of a luxury. Vaugh just can't put the damn ball in the basket enough to get major minutes anymore.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Francisco Elson found some rare meaningful minutes. He responded by playing like a seven-foot chicken with its head cut off. Some good plays but mostly horrible plays. It’s frustrating to watch him over the last couple months because he continues to regress further and further. Pretty soon, he might be unplayable. Then again, he has Matt Bonner behind him in the rotation and Bonner seems to be even lower on the totem pole. Tonight, Bonner saw as much playing time as you did.


This paragraph made me :lol.

[bigfan]

I really appreciate the recap TIMVP. I live in Dallas and dont see any of the games unless they are on one of the national networks.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Why is Elson regressing so much?

[it's me]

Thanks!

[T Park]

Why is Elson regressing so much?


Because he has the brain of a turnip.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

But how can one have such a low basketball IQ that one actually gets worse and worse and worse? That means he is capable of playing better at a more consistent clip, regardless of his crappy IQ.

[slayermin]

Udoka doesn't always look good. But he does play well against the Lakers. Hopefully, his shooting picks up.

Career vs. LAL
6 games - .579 fg pct., .556 3 pt pct., 9.8 ppg

[TDMVPDPOY]

who here thinks blatch is just a good man version of jared jeffries

[timvp]

Why is Elson regressing so much?Honestly, I think his downfall is the same as Malik's and Nazr's. If Pop plays a bigman sporadic minutes, the bigman will press and try to do too much when they do get to play. Trying to do too much in the Spurs system only gets you in trouble. Also, not having the timing down gets you in trouble -- especially if you are a bigman.

It's a viscous cycle that begins with a lack of consistent playing time. You can blame Pop but I think Pop just found out what Elson could offer by being around him for a year and a half and figured out that what he offers isn't enough. There isn't much blame to go around in the situation, other than not signing him in the first place . . .

I want to say there's still time for Elson to turn it around but I see no indication that Elson can become anything more than a seven-footer with six fouls that Pop can call on to buy time for other options.

[Solid D]

Some additional observations to add to timvp's fine summary...

Manu's passes weren't just restaurant quality tonight...they were of the Ruth's Chris or Morton's variety.

Was that a lithe, young Danny Manning playing for Washington tonight? Andray Blatche was impressive.

Pop isn't growing a beard.

Pop's grace with Robert Horry has been like riding a bike with a chain that is continuously slipping, yet Pop patiently continues to pedal until the spikes on the pedal frame finally catch and the bike moves on down the road. 'Bout time that old loose chain caught hold.

Jacque Vaughn was tough and physical tonight. One time, late in the game, lil' old Jacque boxed out Antawn Jamison so well he uprooted him, collapsing him to the floor. Antawn got up slowly and was wincing.

There was a Michael Finley sighting in the 2nd half.

Darius Songaila has sadly become a one-dimensional Euro-tangler. Entwining and grabbing appendages and no longer displaying any offensive game whatsoever.

4 Down still seals the deal...after all these years.

[timvp]

Pop's grace with Robert Horry has been like riding a bike with a chain that is continuously slipping, yet Pop patiently continues to pedal until the spikes on the pedal frame finally catch and the bike moves on down the road. 'Bout time that old loose chain caught hold.Awesome :lol

Simile of the year. :tu

[BonnerDynasty]

We will NEED elson when we play Lakers, will we not?

Other than Duncan, he is our only athletic big that can block shots.

Horry sure, but against 7 footers I dunno.

[T Park]

Jacque Vaughn was tough and physical tonight. One time, late in the game, lil' old Jacque boxed out Antawn Jamison so well he uprooted him, collapsing him to the floor. Antawn got up slowly and was wincing.



Yeah vaughn on top of his good offensive game was his usual pain in the ass self.

Vaughn is still a darn good player for this team.

Gotta love his heart and determination.

[bigfundamental21]

Great analysis, timvp, once again.

I agree on Udoka's inconsistent play. We will need him to put up a more consistent effort as the playoffs draw near. I do like the progress he has made througout the season, I just hope he can bring it every night.

As for the whole Elson thing, I also agree with you on the effect that inconsistent playing time has on players like him. But at the same time, he's gotta be ready when his name is called. That's his job.

I do like how Damon is fitting in. He will be a huge asset once Tony returns.

And what about Manu? He has been struggling with his shot and seems to be forcing the action lately. Does anyone think his hand is still bothering him? Or is it that he is just trying to do too much to make up for Tony's absence?

[Solid D]

Noteworthy stat:

The Spurs typically assist on 60% of their buckets...a fairly high assist/FGM ratio.

Tonight the Spurs had 26 assists on 32 made baskets, 81%. A stat indicative of no Tony Parker, the one-man fast break.

[timvp]

And what about Manu? He has been struggling with his shot and seems to be forcing the action lately. Does anyone think his hand is still bothering him? Or is it that he is just trying to do too much to make up for Tony's absence?Without Parker in the lineup, teams can focus on stopping Ginobili. The way for Ginobili to combat that is to do what he did tonight -- make plays for others. Where he hurts the Spurs with Parker out is if he tries to score despite all the attention he's getting and then the ball movement dies and the role players all shoot poorly because they aren't getting touches.

[T Park]

I think the big test for Damon will come Sunday.

Pop might, of course we've been wrong before, go all out for this game, a semi statement game to see where the team is, and play Damon some minutes.

hes gonna go against probobly the best defensive point guard in the league in Rondo, and a pretty good overall defensive team.

If he can give a performance in that game like he did tonight or last night, than he will have cemented his standing as the main backup of the team when Tony Parker shows back up.

[bostonguy]

Thanks, as always timvp.
I really appreciate the time and effort these posts must take you, I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

Also as always, my first focus is Duncan. I agree that he did not have as great a game as he has of late. But I do think he was great defensively and that he continues to make the plays that matter. For me tonight it was the three point play with just under two minutes left in the game. He even showed some emotion, hitting the base of the basket when the ball went in and he got the call. Seeing him get fired up in a regular season game is a big statement. He's turned it on in the last month +, and I can't wait to see him rise into the playoffs Duncan. His turnovers have got to stop. I assume as the team is gelling more around him he will be able to pass out of the double teams quicker and not lose the ball.
His effeciency still amazes me. He's so quiet about it, so understated. I don't take my eyes off him and I can still miss how great he's playing. (I record the games for exactly this reason. It takes me a second time through to digest the game as a whole.)

I'm glad Horry is starting to thaw out. I think he still has something left in the tank to help this team try to repeat. It was nice to see him hit a few and to see Pop keep him in.

I agree with your assessment of the rest of the team. I'll leave it to others to break it down.

Hey man can it be any more obvious that you are a serious ass kisser?
:p: :p: I am just messing with you bro. We could have been Celtic brothers if we had the luck of drafting Duncan in 97.

[some_user86]

Hey man can it be any more obvious that you are a serious ass kisser?
:p: :p: I am just messing with you bro. We could have been Celtic brothers if we had the luck of drafting Duncan in 97.

That's a sister instead of a brother, actually.

[duncan228]

Hey man can it be any more obvious that you are a serious ass kisser?
:p: :p: I am just messing with you bro. We could have been Celtic brothers if we had the luck of drafting Duncan in 97.

I've been called worse. :)

You'll find I'm known here for being nice. I call it as I see it. I don't waste my energy on the little things. It keeps me from stressing out and being mean. I can get nasty if I need to, but nice is more pleasant...and easier.

You'll also find I'm called "man" and "bro" here a lot. :lmao

[anjlbitz]

I think that duncan228 deserves extra $50 vBookie for everytime SHE gets mistaken for a "bro"

Or at least keep a running tally placed below her avatar.

[bostonguy]

That's a sister instead of a brother, actually.

You mean duncan228 is a transvestite? :vomit: :vomit: Sorry chicks with dicks freaks me the fuck out. :nope

[duncan228]

We could have been Celtic brothers if we had the luck of drafting Duncan in 97.

I grew up in New England. Larry Bird is the reason I'm an NBA fan. I saw him play in the Garden in his rookie year. That's all it took.

And yes, if Duncan had been a Celtic I would be a Celtics fan today.

[whottt]

Hey man can it be any more obvious that you are a serious ass kisser?
:p: :p: I am just messing with you bro. We could have been Celtic brothers if we had the luck of drafting Duncan in 97.


He's a she. And why would you make a derogatory comment like that towards someone who doesn't ever do anything but be nice and gracious to people on this board?

Not enough assholes in the world to satisfy you? Spend more time with yourself.

[T Park]

Hes from Boston, why should it shock you.

[duncan228]

I think that duncan228 deserves extra $50 vBookie for everytime SHE gets mistaken for a "bro"

Or at least keep a running tally placed below her avatar.

I would have run out of room years ago! :lol

And Kori gave me a Spur for it, that covers it forever for me.

[bostonguy]

He's a she. And why would you make a derogatory comment like that towards someone who doesn't ever do anything but be nice and gracious to people on this board?

Not enough assholes in the world to satisfy you? Spend more time with yourself.


First of all I didnt know duncan228 was a she. I was also joking hence the emotion. I have seen enough of her posts to notice that she is a real nice humble fan. You dont need to be all sensitive about it.

[bostonguy]

Hes from Boston, why should it shock you.

Every city has assholes. Spare me the lecture donkey tits. :)

[whottt]

First of all I didnt know duncan228 was a she. I was also joking hence the emotion. I have seen enough of her posts to notice that she is a real nice humble fan. You dont need to be all sensitive about it.



Assholes are plentiful on this board. We don't need you trying to make new converts of the non-assholes.

If you feel you need to interact with an asshole...just post.

[T Park]

Spare me the lecture donkey tits

wtf....

[bostonguy]

If I feel the need to interact with my own asshole... I will just post.

[bostonguy]

wtf....

Hey I can make non-serious jokes too. Im shipping off to Boston woahhhhhhhhhh!

[whottt]

If I feel the need to interact with my own asshole... I will just start talking to bostonguy.

[bostonguy]

Whottt you bring that sarcastic yet rough edgy role of a poster to this board. I really find it interesting yet entertaining.

[polandprzem]

security blanket

nice


Hey, it's good to have some wins, but still. The spurs are rested and are not playing top teams. This all can turn around as fast as it turned around previously.

Hopes hopes ... we are hoping that Stoudamire is better then he is, we are hoping for Elson to get his head back, and Bonner to be hustle productive. We want Udoka to be a PF, and even in today's NBA that scenario not paying of in the playoffs.

Like Pop says - it might work, it might not
Like Bruce says - you take what's given
Like Bruce says - it is what it is
Like I says - the spurs are the spurs

[Mister Sinister]

Because he has the brain of a turnip.
That's an insult to turnips.

[urunobili]

You dont need to be all sensitive about it. simply said.. you just don't fuck around with duncan228.. got it?
:nutkick:

[MoSpur]

I always thought Pop moving Oberto out of the starting lineup was what hurt him.

[TwoHandJam]

So I too was impressed with this Blatche character last night. I walk over to my PC to check his line: 50% fg, 16pts 15rebs(5 offensive), 2 blocks, 1 steal, 1 ast, 2 to in 33 minutes and yet he has the second worst +/- on the team at -10?

:wtf

WTF is up with that stat? People only seem to use it when it suits their purposes. Can someone explain how this stat can be useful if it seems so wrong in this instance?

[Manu's Bald Spot]

While I agree Elson hasn't been good, with the way the west is shaping up with shaq and gasol, i think we need to keep as many big men as we can at this point. Or, if trading elson/bonner, get a solid big man. I think we have enough wings, but it would be fine by me if Elson/Bonner were used for 6 fouls each. Duncan will always man the middle for us, but if teams play big, we need to be ready for that too with our bench. But hey, considering what Pop said about willing to trade, maybe we'll get a solid big man (Haslem!)

[whottt]

WTF is up with that stat? People only seem to use it when it suits their purposes. Can someone explain how this stat can be useful if it seems so wrong in this instance?


+/- was never meant to be used to judge individual play on a game by game basis. People like to use it because it's a new and nifty stat...but that doesn't mean it's accurate in a single game context.

Most statisticians don't consider it an accurate measure of individual play until you have a sample size equal to two seasons worth of games....and that's taking into account that the supporting cast and minutes will be mostly the same over that period.

The supporting and opposing casts are huge factor in that number and that is the main reason it's inaccurate in a single game sample size. For example...all it takes to get a horrible +/- is for a player to be on the court while the other team makes a run and then not get any more minutes the rest of the game...due to foul trouble or a blow out etc...

There hasn't been a player born that hasn't happened to at one point or another....


Guys at the end of the bench, or without a defined role in the rotation are going to have the worst +/- on the team, and I'd be willing to bet you can see that trend on every team in the league, regardless of the differing levels of talent.


It's not meant to be used at all as a judge of individual play on a single game basis.

[TwoHandJam]

+/- was never meant to be used to judge individual play on a game by game basis. People like to use it because it's a new and nifty stat...but that doesn't mean it's accurate in a single game context.

...

It's not meant to be used at all as a judge of individual play on a single game basis.
Yet people quote this stat all the time within the context of individual games. If it is only statistically significant over a 2 year sample size having stable teammates/opponents, then it's pretty pointless to publish it with every boxscore.

[whottt]

Yet people quote this stat all the time within the context of individual games. If it is only statistically significant over a 2 year sample size having stable teammates/opponents, then it's pretty pointless to publish it with every boxscore.


Well, I'm not saying for certain it's only signifigant then...but that is what some some statisticians claim. I'd say you need a third of the season minimum before you start giving it relevance, but yeah...it's definitely not a single game stat.

[Obstructed_View]

Whottt you bring that sarcastic yet rough edgy role of a poster to this board. I really find it interesting yet entertaining.
Hey man can it be any more obvious that you are a serious ass kisser?

[ORION]

haha ..Elson is a headless chicken

[wildchild]

I always thought Pop moving Oberto out of the starting lineup was what hurt him.

:tu

me, too. I'm getting tired of the Pop's changes in the center position. it wasn't good for the Oberto's play.
He took long time to assimilate those changes and his confidence dropped.
Just now he's in the starting lineup again and as timvp said, he is rather solid in last games.

[timvp]

So I too was impressed with this Blatche character last night. I walk over to my PC to check his line: 50% fg, 16pts 15rebs(5 offensive), 2 blocks, 1 steal, 1 ast, 2 to in 33 minutes and yet he has the second worst +/- on the team at -10?

:wtf

WTF is up with that stat? People only seem to use it when it suits their purposes. Can someone explain how this stat can be useful if it seems so wrong in this instance?Blatche played most of the game and finished with a -10 and the Wizards lost by 8. Not that drastic.

Plus, while Blatche was pretty impressive offensively, he was horrible defensively. They tried him on Duncan and Duncan literally scored every time he was matched up against him. When he was defending the jump shooters, he wasn't contesting shots. With the Wizards starting Haywood, Blatche and Jamison, that's a center and two power forwards defensively. Blatche was asked to step out and guard on the perimeter, which he showed he wasn't able to do.


+/- was never meant to be used to judge individual play on a game by game basis. People like to use it because it's a new and nifty stat...but that doesn't mean it's accurate in a single game context.

Most statisticians don't consider it an accurate measure of individual play until you have a sample size equal to two seasons worth of games....and that's taking into account that the supporting cast and minutes will be mostly the same over that period.

The supporting and opposing casts are huge factor in that number and that is the main reason it's inaccurate in a single game sample size. For example...all it takes to get a horrible +/- is for a player to be on the court while the other team makes a run and then not get any more minutes the rest of the game...due to foul trouble or a blow out etc...

There hasn't been a player born that hasn't happened to at one point or another....


Guys at the end of the bench, or without a defined role in the rotation are going to have the worst +/- on the team, and I'd be willing to bet you can see that trend on every team in the league, regardless of the differing levels of talent.


It's not meant to be used at all as a judge of individual play on a single game basis.Don't let whottt fool you. whottt used to be a fan of plus/minus .... until I pointed out that Barry has the worst plus/minus of any player in the Duncan Era during the playoffs. Ever since then, whottt changed his tone and has gone on a rampage against plus/minus.

While I agree that plus/minus is far from a perfect stat, I do think it's a decent enough tool if you actually watch the games and factor everything else in. If you don't watch a game, plus/minus is worthless because you won't know what went into the numbers for that particular game.

But for example, last night Horry was the best player on the court for the Spurs when they made their run. He ended up with the best plus/minus on the team. Was that a fluke or was Horry rewarded for being the best player during the time the Spurs were pulling away? I think it's pretty obvious that the latter is the correct answer.

With whottt, you have to realize his arguments are either rooted in something regarding David Robinson or Brent Barry. This argument stems from me pointing out Barry's plus/minus shortcomings and whottt melting down.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

That's a sister instead of a brother, actually.


I'd hit it. /tlong

[duncan228]

I'd hit it. /tlong

Sister...not sheep. :)

[TwoHandJam]

Blatche played most of the game and finished with a -10 and the Wizards lost by 8. Not that drastic.

Plus, while Blatche was pretty impressive offensively, he was horrible defensively. They tried him on Duncan and Duncan literally scored every time he was matched up against him. When he was defending the jump shooters, he wasn't contesting shots. With the Wizards starting Haywood, Blatche and Jamison, that's a center and two power forwards defensively. Blatche was asked to step out and guard on the perimeter, which he showed he wasn't able to do.

...


I understand some points you are trying to make but I still find it odd that +/- ranked him as the second worst player on the entire team for that game. Stevenson and Haywood played similar minutes and were at -1 even though they both had terrible (30%) shooting percentages, less rebounds and blocked shots and Stevenson had 3 turnovers to boot.

Seeing as they (Stevenson, Haywood, Blatche) all played around 34 minutes, they must have all been on the court simultaneously a fair amount. Is +/- that heavily weighted against you when your matchup scores on you alot?

[travis2]

simply said.. you just don't fuck around with duncan228.. got it?
:nutkick:

At least, not unless you're married to her, I'd wager...

[travis2]

Sister...not sheep. :)

:lol:lol:lol

[duncan228]

I didn't realize that before. Thought duncan228 was a "guy". A nice guy to be sure, with very nice posts and contributions to the forum.

I have to admit, I thought the "man love" for duncan was kind of odd though...

:lol

Makes more sense now, doesn't it? :)

[ClingingMars]

That's a sister instead of a brother, actually.

:lmao

thats what the spur is for

-Mars

[duncan228]

yes, I'm very relieved !

I think a lot of people are when they finally discover I'm not a guy. Or a "man." Or a "bro." Or a "dawg."

The list goes on...:lmao

[ClingingMars]

I'd hit it. /tlong

http://idhitit.org/gallery/general097.jpg

-Mars