Popovich pops off on Grizzlies' controversial swap

[MajicMan]

You don't think they are tanking this year it like you guys did? It's supposedly a pretty deep draft.

[MajicMan]

Whats your excuse for being at home alone on a friday night.

The zits not go down enough?
What's yours?

[RonMexico]

Maybe not best to burn bridges in Memphis and anger the Lakers, but I think Pop is right on the mark with what he said.

[TwoHandJam]

Who said anything about winning?
You kinda have to win to make money. Or at least not lose all the time.

[T Park]

I'm not at home, I'm at work.


Something adults do so they can support the lazy kids like you to live.

[DazedAndConfused]

But but it's a CONSPIRACY!!! WHAAAA WHAAAAA WHAAAA

[T Park]

You kinda have to win to make money.

I think some teams have proven otherwise.

[TwoHandJam]

I think some teams have proven otherwise.
Are they in that hotbed of NBA fandom known as Memphis? Didn't think so.

[jrmp317]

You don't think they are tanking this year it like you guys did? It's supposedly a pretty deep draft.
you're a dumb shit, the Spurs didn't even have the worst record that year. That went to Boston who openly tanked that season. DRob, along with Elliott, Chuck Person, and a list of other players missed countless games that season. Troll elsewhere

[DazedAndConfused]

I'm not at home, I'm at work.


Something adults do so they can support the lazy kids like you to live.

The sad thing is I probably make more money than you. What do you make in a year?

[T Park]

But but it's a CONSPIRACY!!! WHAAAA WHAAAAA WHAAAA

Yup. 8 or 9 I'd say.

[ChumpDumper]

You kinda have to win to make money. Or at least not lose all the time.
http://espn.go.com/photo/2006/0810/060810_sterling_195.jpg
Did someone in the upper deck just say something?

[DazedAndConfused]

So now Pau Gasol is a franchise player? I thought he was a soft Euro-trash pussy? Make up your mind guys.

[MajicMan]

I'm not at home, I'm at work.


Something adults do so they can support the lazy kids like you to live.
Right, I didn't know people in the meat packing department had extra time to play on the computer let alone computers in the meat packing department.

[MajicMan]

Clippers are actually one of the teams in the NBA that make money on a consistent basis and they lose all the time.

[slayermin]

And they were willing to take back Gasol's contract? You know he is set to make almost $50M over the next 3 seasons.

Yeah, playing GM really takes some time to analyze all the variables. Seattle is in limbo without a new arena and it's unlikely that they would want to take on the rest of his deal.

And Miami still had Shaq's contract on the books when Gasol was traded so I can understand them not even thinking about taking on more money.

Let me take another crack at this.

[ChumpDumper]

Clippers are actually one of the teams in the NBA that make money on a consistent basis and they lose all the time.You cheated by copying my idea, stating it crudely and without pictures of old men in leather.

[T Park]

Right, I didn't know people in the meat packing department had extra time to play on the computer let alone computers in the meat packing department.


Yeah kiddo.

Your Lord of the Rings dolls need cleaning.

Be gone.

[ChumpDumper]

[awaits debut of Dusty Gandalf troll]

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

[awaits debut of Dusty Gandalf troll]


I was thinking Randal Graves.

[timvp]

http://espn.go.com/photo/2006/0810/060810_sterling_195.jpg
Did someone in the upper deck just say something?

Memphis != Los Angeles. You can't make money in Memphis if you don't win. In Los Angeles, you field the worst team in pro sports and make money.

If the Grizzlies wanted to salary dump Gasol, I find it hard to believe that no team would offer anything more than three late first rounders and a mid second rounder as compensation.

[Fernando TD21]

LOL my leg is broken and I can't do anything but sit at home and watch sports. What's your excuse?
Is your team tanking too, like the Spurs did with David Robinson?
:rolleyes


The sad thing is I probably make more money than you. What do you make in a year?
That's a good point. Whoever makes more money is right. Just to show that a person doesn't need to be smart to make a lot of money.


Shit happens all the time just like when Minne was dealing under the table with Joe Smith and the Pats filming other teams except for the fact that these two teams got caught. Spurs fucken tanked and they landed the number one pick. Why aren't they investigated? Not giving your all is a major sin in sports. Robert Horry plays dirty against the Suns and the Spurs get rewarded. If Pop wants to talk about a basketball committee the committee would have fucken vetoed the Shaq for Grant, Lamar, and Butler trade and also the Butler for Kwame trade and also the Scola for peanuts trade so he should shut his ugly face. All these recent trades for the Lakers that went down have been in their favor just like his "thank god they tore down the Berlin Wall or broke up the Soviet Union" or some shit like that comment about when the Lakers traded Shaq. Hypocritical two face whiny Pop should shut his trap. Fucken Bill Belichick of basketball.
Jealous?

Someone is getting mad. :lol

[LA24]

:dramaquee

Some of you Laker fans need to chill. Our team hasn't done crap the last 3 years and there's no guarantee we will this win this year either.

[MajicMan]

:dramaquee

Some of you Laker fans need to chill. Our team hasn't done crap the last 3 years and there's no guarantee we will this win this year either.
Shut up trader. Nobody said anything about winning. This is about the Pau Gasol trade so take your ass kissing elsewhere.

[DazedAndConfused]

What does this thread have to do with the Lakers winning a title?

This is all about crybaby Spur fans making stupid claims of collusion because their FO missed out on the Pau Gasol sweepstakes.

[LA24]

Shut up trader.

It's "traitor"...idiot.

[Cry Havoc]

Shut up trader. Nobody said anything about winning. This is about the Pau Gasol trade so take your ass kissing elsewhere.

:lmao

I mean, wow. Self-ownage in it's finest form. We can never take you seriously again. At least not until you get out of junior-high and take English 101.

:lmao

[MajicMan]

It's late...Give me a "brake"

[DazedAndConfused]

What's funny is how bostonguy called this thread turning into an all-out flame fest on like page 2.

[ancestron]

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s316/mrjones_2007/popovich_gregg030428.jpg

[LA24]

What does this thread have to do with the Lakers winning a title?

Well, you talk as if we're the defending champs...we're not.


This is all about crybaby Spur fans making stupid claims of collusion because their FO missed out on the Pau Gasol sweepstakes.

And then you countered with false claims yourself didn't you ?

Anyways, I said my piece. I'm out.

[Medvedenko]

Ok...I just got back home from a night out and I read that Pop's being a little bitch regarding the Pau trade. What a fucking little punk...hahahaha..... Serioulsy, he first calls the league office to get Kobe suspended on the hit on Manu and now makes this assinine comment....

Where the fuck was Pop and his bullshit morals and integrity when the Lakers dealt Shaq to Miami, or when we traded Caron for Kwame....

This is far from the most obsene poor sport and sour grapes I have heard in like forever. Concentrate on your own team Pop and maybe just maybe you can beat the knicks in regulation. Fuck I'm choked, that a guy that I thought I respected comes up with the bullshit of all bullshit. I feel sad for you spurs fans......

[cherylsteele]

In fact the NBA had to change the rules because of what the Spurs did that year.
Really?? Enlighten us on that rule, if you could please.

[whottt]

Ok...I just got back home from a night out and I read that Pop's being a little bitch regarding the Pau trade. What a fucking little punk...hahahaha..... Serioulsy, he first calls the league office to get Kobe suspended on the hit on Manu and now makes this assinine comment....

Where the fuck was Pop and his bullshit morals and integrity when the Lakers dealt Shaq to Miami, or when we traded Caron for Kwame....

This is far from the most obsene poor sport and sour grapes I have heard in like forever. Concentrate on your own team Pop and maybe just maybe you can beat the knicks in regulation. Fuck I'm choked, that a guy that I thought I respected comes up with the bullshit of all bullshit. I feel sad for you spurs fans......



Fuck you....Phil Jackson has been taking shots at us for the better part of a decade now. Including accusing us of tanking...


Take your indignation, shove it up your ass, and then learn to speak fucking English.

[LA24]

he first calls the league office to get Kobe suspended on the hit on Manu

If that's true then yea, he was a lil' bitch for doing that.


Fuck I'm choked, that a guy that I thought I respected comes up with the bullshit of all bullshit. I feel sad for you spurs fans......

But I don't see what was so bad about what Pop said. He only said he couldn't comprehend it and thought it didn't make sense. Can you blame him ? I mean you gotta admit, it was a bit one-sided .

Shoot, if Phoenix or Spurs got Gasol, I'd be pissed off too. I'd wanna veto that also.

It's good that they're enraged. Just goes to show the Lakers are now more of a threat than before.

[Medvedenko]

Fuck vetoing any trades....if a team wants to trade Kobe for a bag of balls and a food stamp, than so be it. There's a reason we have a salary cap and contracts must match. Pop didn't say he just couldn't comprehend it...he basically said if he was on a trade committee he wouldn't allow it. For that he's a bitch. I don't give a shit anymore and I'm tired of sticking up for the Spurs and calling them classy and shit. Fuck that. Pop showed his true colours. He should just kept his mouth shut.

[whottt]

Collusion isn't fair to the rest of the league and teams engaging in it should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

[Medvedenko]

Fuck you....Phil Jackson has been taking shots at us for the better part of a decade now. Including accusing us of tanking...


Take your indignation, shove it up your ass, and then learn to speak fucking English.

I'm glad we can converse like this...I miss our little get togethers. Oh, and the discussion of tanking...who cares, spurs weren't the first and won't be the last. Where was Pop when Vince Carter was traded for nobody...didn't see him crying then and trying to organize a trade committee. You know why, because it didn't really affect him. This goes beyond the championship and who's the better team. I bet he's the first to call Stu Jackson and Stern when any problems arise....see Playoffs versus the Suns. Where was he spouting how unfair it was for the sun's players for getting suspended. Where was his intergrity there.....

[Medvedenko]

Collusion isn't fair to the rest of the league and teams engaging in it should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.


Collusion eh.....where do you come off....was there collusion when Jabar was traded....or when Shaq signed with the Lakers.....or when the spurs were hadned the #1 pick.

[WildcardManu]

Really?? Enlighten us on that rule, if you could please.


Good luck trying to get a response to that allegation, i tried earlier, still waiting........................................... .........

[slayermin]

Collusion eh.....where do you come off....was there collusion when Jabar was traded....or when Shaq signed with the Lakers.....or when the spurs were hadned the #1 pick.

So the lottery is fixed now, huh?

[DazedAndConfused]

I already admitted that I had misread about that rule. I could have sworn they changed the percentages of the lottery in response to teams tanking after the Spurs got Duncan, but that happened a few years before Duncan got drafted. My mistake.

Medvedenko does have a point here. Where was Pop to cry foul at all the other ludicrous shit that has gone on in the NBA over the past couple of years? Only now that it directly affects his chances of winning a title does he give a shit. This isn't about integrity or stopping collusion, this is Pop pissed off that his chance to finally repeat might be squelched again by the Lakers.

[Medvedenko]

So the lottery is fixed now, huh?

It's about as plausible as some magical way the Laker got Pau....like Mitch pulled out his magic wand and got Gasol....why couldn't he get him last year and while he was at it get Lebron and Chris Paul for Smush Parker. You know Byron Scott is the coach of NOL ..... you guys are all defending Pop, however if any other coach said the same words you'd be all over him.

[whottt]

Collusion eh.....where do you come off....was there collusion when Jabar was traded

Yes...



....or when Shaq signed with the Lakers

Yes...





.....or when the spurs were hadned the #1 pick.


Spurs weren't handed the #1 pick.



BTW...you also left out West and Kobe's under the table agreement that lead the Lakers aquiring him...




Jerry West is just about the dirtiest and most collusive GM in NBA history and he's shit all over small market franchises by financial stongarming and illegal contact with players, to the detriment of the NBA time and time again.


The Grizz probably hired the asswipe GM on West's reccomendation too...

[LA24]

he basically said if he was on a trade committee he wouldn't allow it. For that he's a bitch. I don't give a shit anymore and I'm tired of sticking up for the Spurs and calling them classy and shit. Fuck that. Pop showed his true colours. He should just kept his mouth shut.

And if you were on this trade committee, would you allow the Spurs to get Gasol for a bag of chips ? Would Phil ? Be honest now. It goes both ways.

Let's just be thankful this so-called trade committee doesn't exist.

I for one enjoy this griping of theirs. It just goes to show that they can say what they want, but deep down, they know we're back in contention.

[DazedAndConfused]

The difference is Phil wouldn't whine about it to the media.

[whottt]

Raise your hand if you remember David Robinson sitting in the luxury box at the Forum in 1988...courtesy of Mr. Jerry West...


At least that time he wasn't doing anything illegal...those his intent to fuck over a small martket franchise for the benefit of the shallow and self centered, plastic, team and fanbase that is LA was on clear display.


Luckily for us...David Robinson wasn't Jerry West's or LA's, kind of human being :tu

Even if it did end up costing him his rightful place among the games greatest centers.

[Medvedenko]

We were back prior to getting Gasol.....would I be upset...hell yeah, I was choked as Raptor fan when VC left and we got the Williams sisters...These deals get done every year. Is it fair...no, but it's no underhanded, collusion or a conspiracy as some people want to believe.

[slayermin]

Gasol could have helped out Atlanta and they had some expiring contracts.

Washington and Golden State looks like they could have done a deal also.

The more I look at team salaries, the more I think Memphis could have received a better deal. At the very least, they could have received a high first round pick or a promising young player in return. Crittenton is under contract through 2008/2009. So they were willing to take on a contract for a so-called promising player.

[LA24]

BTW...you also left out West and Kobe's under the table agreement that lead the Lakers aquiring him...

Unless you have proof, I'll file this under "false accusation."


Jerry West is just about the dirtiest and most collusive GM in NBA history.

Dirtiest ? Most Collusive GM ? Unless you have proof, I'll file this under "false accusation."



The Grizz probably hired the asswipe GM on West's reccomendation too...

Probably ? Probably ?!?!?

You lost all credibility due to your haterism.

[Medvedenko]

Gasol could have helped out Atlanta and they had some expiring contracts.

Washington and Golden State looks like they could have done a deal also.

The more I look at team salaries, the more I think Memphis could have received a better deal. At the very least, they could have received a high first round pick or a promising young player in return. Crittenton is under contract through 2008/2009. So they were willing to take on a contract for a so-called promising player.

Look, of course the Grizz could have received a better deal player wise, no doubt. That's not what this was about, as it went beyond talent for talent. It was a pure business decision. So who cares if he wanted to deal with the Lakers....maybe Pau had some say that we don't know. Oh, I just re-read what Pop wrote.... FUCK HIM

[LA24]

...the shallow and self centered, plastic, team and fanbase that is LA was on clear display.

More haterism. :rolleyes

[Medvedenko]

Ok, I'm done and getting off my soap box. What Pop did was classless and a clear pussy move. I expected D'antoni to pull a stunt like this. :(

[Vinny Del Negro]

Cry me a river tankers. You guys had "David soft as a marshmallow Robinson" and tanked it to get Duncan. Pop replaces Mike D as the biggest whiner in the league. Lakers already did y'all a favor by blowing up their team the first time around. Just goes to show you guys can only win by default or cheating like how you did when you tanked the season to get Timmy.

Your giant font and general obnoxiousness adds relevance to your argument. Sometimes small markets have to tank because other teams won't give them free franchise-cusp players. In exchange for kwame brown's contract. PS tanking != cheating. It's an inherent weakness in the nba's draft system. Blame sternboy.

[slayermin]

The Grizz probably hired the asswipe GM on West's reccomendation too...

"West is staying through June 30 and will advise Heisley on his replacement and a new coach and in a draft that could deliver 7-foot center Greg Oden or college player of the year Kevin Durant. Then he said he would be open to working as a consultant."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2840564

"A native of West Virginia, Wallace also has worked for Portland, Denver, Los Angeles Clippers and the New York Knicks. He was a draft consultant for the United States Basketball League."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2908136

[slayermin]

The difference is Phil wouldn't whine about it to the media.

Phyllis whines as much as anyone. Stick around and I will try to find you some quotes.

[DazedAndConfused]

Phil is the antithesis of Pop. They couldn't be more different.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao @ you guys seriously going at it over this nonissue all night.

:tu

[Cry Havoc]

Ok...I just got back home from a night out and I read that Pop's being a little bitch regarding the Pau trade. What a fucking little punk...hahahaha..... Serioulsy, he first calls the league office to get Kobe suspended on the hit on Manu and now makes this assinine comment....

Where the fuck was Pop and his bullshit morals and integrity when the Lakers dealt Shaq to Miami, or when we traded Caron for Kwame....

This is far from the most obsene poor sport and sour grapes I have heard in like forever. Concentrate on your own team Pop and maybe just maybe you can beat the knicks in regulation. Fuck I'm choked, that a guy that I thought I respected comes up with the bullshit of all bullshit. I feel sad for you spurs fans......

As opposed to, you know, attempting to discredit another team's championship run, like your coach has done. Man, you've got some class over there to be calling us out for stuff.

[johngateswhiteley]

I'm glad we can converse like this...I miss our little get togethers. Oh, and the discussion of tanking...who cares, spurs weren't the first and won't be the last. Where was Pop when Vince Carter was traded for nobody...didn't see him crying then and trying to organize a trade committee. You know why, because it didn't really affect him. This goes beyond the championship and who's the better team. I bet he's the first to call Stu Jackson and Stern when any problems arise....see Playoffs versus the Suns. Where was he spouting how unfair it was for the sun's players for getting suspended. Where was his intergrity there.....

i'm inclined to agree with you. that being said, the Spurs are still a better team than the lakers.

[Newton]

So anyway, I've been lurking here for one hell of a long time, and I still don't know what SPAM means. I'd like some help on this one. Thanks.

[slayermin]

Phil is the antithesis of Pop. They couldn't be more different.

"I know there's a lot of pressure on the refs when they come here, because Mark has them review the tapes and send them into the league," Jackson said. "And these guys are nervous Nellies when they come in to referee in this building. But they have to do a better job than they're doing. That's not acceptable."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2323199

"A mud-wrestling contest," Phil Jackson called the first game of the most intriguing series, his Lakers against Yao Ming's Rockets.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/oconnor/2004-04-19-oconnor_x.htm

"I don't even have to look at the calendar to know that it's spring coming on summer, with Phil complaining about the officiating," Van Gundy said. "It happens like a rite of passage every spring. And it's interesting. His team shoots more free throws (than opponents), I'm going to guess probably 80 percent in his career. But it's those ... Lakers always getting screwed.

"And I'm really surprised at some of you guys that are probing journalists. If he was a fisherman, he'd have you guys mounted on his wall. He throws the bait out there and then you guys scurry over there and throw your mouths on there, so he can hook you with this whole idea of physical play, Eastern Conference, Jeff Van Gundy mentality.

"Yeah, really. Shaq is a finesse player compared to Yao. And Karl Malone and Kelvin Cato, who's more physical? And you have the Patron Saint, Rick Fox, who never touches anybody. And then you've got Bryant who is bigger and stronger than Mobley. You've got a guy nicknamed `Glove' for a reason. And then you've got the flopper, Fisher, bumping and grinding. So who's the more physical team?

"If you guys would probe a little bit, we're the ones trying to run a little bit. We're the one who scored more than 100 points when we played in the regular season. The only physical team in this series is them.

"Basically, what he's trying to say in his own way is, `You have no right to compete against us. The fans and the media and TV want the Lakers in the Finals, and I expect the league to accommodate us.'

"We were thankful that they sent three men of integrity to referee the game (Saturday), and now we will see who the league sends in here tonight. When Phil asks the league to jump, we'll see how high they jump. And that's all I've got to say."

http://www.majorwager.com/forums/mess-hall/5568-good-article-whining-phil-jackson.html

[Tek_XX]

The Lakers and the Celtics are back, a job well done Stern.

[Findog]

SPAM = Spurs Peak After March

[Man In Black]

Stupid ass lakah fans. If you had fucking bothered to investigate shit, you'd see facts like this:

Injuries decimated the Spurs, none more so than that of Robinson, who returned from back problems only to suffer a broken foot. The former MVP appeared in only nine games. Chuck Person was even less fortunate, missing the entire season following back surgery. Charles Smith missed 65 games with an arthritic right knee and Sean Elliott missed 43 games with tendinitis in the right knee. The loss of those four players, each among the top six scorers from the 1995-96 team, prompted the steepest one-year decline in NBA history, from 59 wins to only 20.

Ok, so let's parallel that to today's Lakers so that even the dumbest of you loudmouths can understand. Let's say Bynum is Robinson and he plays 9 games. Then one of your primary scorers with range in Chuck Person is say, Derek Fisher and he misses the entire season, now Pau Gasol misses 65 games with a bad back, and Kobe Bryant misses 43 games. You replace them with DJ Mbenga, The high flying Trevor Ariza, Jordan Farmar at Point, bring in Vujacic at SG, and then a veteran PF like say PJ Brown. HOW MANY GAMES IS YOUR TEAM GOING TO WIN THEN? If that's your team...is it tanking?

Do you even know which player led the Spurs in scoring that year?


















That's right...Dominique Wilkins.



In the absence of many of his regulars, Popovich relied on a veteran crew that included free agent signees Dominique Wilkins and Vernon Maxwell and the familiar backcourt duo of Vinnie Del Negro and Avery Johnson. Wilkins, one of the top scorers in NBA history, led the offensive charge with 18.2 points per game. During the season he became only the 38th player to appear in 1,000 NBA games and surpassed 26,000 points, moving into seventh place on the NBA's all-time scoring list.


SO...MedvuufusedLALAmaj(d)iklessboyFan...Is it tanking, and knowing full well that not having the worst record means you actually have LESS of a Shot to get that pick...how does tanking ensure that you get it?

[MajicMan]

Stupid ass lakah fans. If you had fucking bothered to investigate shit, you'd see facts like this:

Ok, so let's parallel that to today's Lakers so that even the dumbest of you loudmouths can understand. Let's say Bynum is Robinson and he plays 9 games. Then one of your primary scorers with range in Chuck Person is say, Derek Fisher and he misses the entire season, now Pau Gasol misses 65 games with a bad back, and Kobe Bryant misses 43 games. You replace them with DJ Mbenga, The high flying Trevor Ariza, Jordan Farmar at Point, bring in Vujacic at SG, and then a veteran PF like say PJ Brown. HOW MANY GAMES IS YOUR TEAM GOING TO WIN THEN? If that's your team...is it tanking?

Do you even know which player led the Spurs in scoring that year?


















That's right...Dominique Wilkins.



SO...MedvuufusedLALAmaj(d)iklessboyFan...Is it tanking, and knowing full well that not having the worst record means you actually have LESS of a Shot to get that pick...how does tanking ensure that you get it?
Charles Barkley even said it and he played against you guys. I think he should know if guys are giving it their all or not and sometimes it's just so fucken obvious. Don't insult people's intelligence by saying otherwise. It's almost on par with the "Al Queda" bullshit the Bush administration shoves down our throats. Anybody with a clue sees through the bullshit. Fucken tanker cheaters pointing fingers.

[Man In Black]

Damn Majdick, I had you pegged all along. You are dickless.
You must have had a LOBOTOMY to be this stupidly dense.
Pic of MajicMan below:
http://www.paddedcell.com.au/psychosurgery_dude.jpg

Unreal.

[Princess Pimp]

The Lakers and the Celtics are back, a job well done Stern.
rather than seeing the Spurs getting "dynasty status" because they aren't yet.

[Man In Black]

rather than seeing the Spurs getting "dynasty status" because they aren't yet.
There's another one or the same with a different login...

Hey...About Larry Bird's Celtic Dynasty...how many times did his team's go back-to-back?

Did you have a lobotomy as well?

[MajicMan]

Damn Majdick, I had you pegged all along. You are dickless.
You must have had a LOBOTOMY to be this stupidly dense.
Pic of MajicMan below:
http://www.paddedcell.com.au/psychosurgery_dude.jpg

Unreal.
Tanking is dickless.
Trying to hurt and injure the other team's pg in a playoff series is dickless.
Never defending your title is dickless.
Getting owned by the Shaq/Kobe Lakers is dickless.

:wakeup

[slayermin]

Fixed.


Tanking is dickless.
Trying to hurt and injure the other team's pg in a playoff series is dickless.
Never defending your title is dickless.
Getting owned by the Shaq Lakers is dickless.

:wakeup

[Man In Black]

Hey Majic...how many back-to-backs does Larry Legend have?

Not only do you not know hoops...you're still dickless.

[Whisky Dog]

see Playoffs versus the Suns. Where was he spouting how unfair it was for the sun's players for getting suspended. Where was his intergrity there.....

There was no integrity issue there as the Suns players were punished because two of their own violated the rules. The assistant coaches also fucked up by not remembering how stupid Amare is and holding his dumb ass back.

[MajicMan]

Hey Majic...how many back-to-backs does Larry Legend have?

Not only do you not know hoops...you're still dickless.
The same number as your IQ, the same length as your dick, the same number of balls you have, 0.........

[Man In Black]

Wow...You actually spelled IQ right. If one investigates even further, you actually spelled every word there, correctly.
Hey did you know the repeating dots at the end of the number institutes a sequence of upward growth and as it stands....in just 1 second, I've already passed you in both intellect and brass.

Damn, I didn't think anyone could possibly be this dumb, and then I read you and you're a winner or is it loser, does it matter really? I mean, you're you!!!

[Harry Callahan]

It seems Stupid and Retarded...OOPS, I mean Dazed and Confused and the rest of the frontrunning Laker people don't understand the history of their own team that well.

The success of the Lakers, outside of the the championships of the old Minneapolis Lakers, has been based upon taking advantage of the stupid GMs of stuggling teams.

Look at the trades made for centers. Acquiring Wilt Chamberlain for three players none of you have heard of from the 76ers in 1970. An NBA title came in 1972.

Acquiring Kareem Abdul-Jabbar from the Bucks for four players (the best of which were Junior Bridgeman and Brian Winters) - not even remotely equal compensation. Kareem was the MVP of the league many times in LA and five NBA titles were won during Jabbar's tenure as a Laker.

Let's go to 1996 - stealing Shaquille O'Neal from an Orlando Magic team offering Shaq more money than LA. In the same year getting Kobe Bryant from the Hornets for Vlade Divac in his contract year - the Charlotte Hornets end up getting one year out of Vlade and he walks to Sacramento as a FA. Once again - getting outstanding players for next to nothing or garbage.

Do you how the Lakers got Magic Johnson? A completely washed up Gail Goodrich signed as a FA with the New Orleans Jazz in 1976 and the NBA League office decided (as was the case at the time) that the Jazz should compensate LA with a No 1 pick in 1979 - which turned out to be the 1st pick overall and Magic Johnson. Once again, a HOFer for garbage.

How did James Worthy get to be a Laker? In 1980, the Cleveland Cavaliers just had to have Don Ford in and a low Laker 1981 1st rounder for Butch Lee and a 1982 first rounder. Low and behold, that 1982 pick turns into the 1st overall again and James Worthy - another HOFer for garbage. See a pattern here? The Lakers essentially have been getting something for nothing since 1970. It sure helps you stay on top when you can do that time after time after time after time. BTW, Byron Scott, another really good player, got to the Lakers in 1984 in a way similar to the Worthy deal.

For Spurs fans back in the 1980s such as me it was extremely frustrating to see this kind of stuff go on and know your team had little to no chance of beating the Lakers in the playoffs. We Spurs fans are a little sensitive when it comes to LA getting something for nothing way too many times.

As far as SA tanking games, I don't think the 1986-1987 Spurs tanked. That team was terrible and lost a ton of games. The Spurs lucked out and won the lottery and got David Robinson. A sidenote - when SA got the rights to DRob, none other than Brent Barry's dad (HOFer and NBA commentator) Rick said that Robinson should not sign with the Spurs, wait two years (until 1989) and sign as an unrestricted free agent with which team? You guessed it - the LAKERS! I'm glad David had some integrity and a sense of obligation to the city San Antonio.

The 1996-1997 Spurs team also stunk because of Robinson's broken foot and a rash of injuries to lesser players on the squad like Chuck Person. Is it possible Robinson was held out late in the season? Yes, but that still didn't guarantee anything on the draft pick. SA just got lucky again and won the chance to draft Duncan. San Antonio at least had to endure really bad seasons to get Robinson and Duncan - they did not get the free ride the Lakers got through the years.

The team that is responsible for the lottery we have today (and not the old coin flip with the two worst teams) is the Houston Rockets, who had the first pick in 1983 (Ralph Sampson) and 1984 (Akeem Olajuwon). The 83-84 Rockets team coached by Bill Fitch was playing Elvin Hayes (in his last year) 40 minutes a game late in the season and doing other weird stuff with the lineup to get a 50% chance at the first pick in '84. Without the Rockets misdeeds, the Spurs likely would not have the 4 NBA championships we currently enjoy today.

Dazed and Confused, the Chuckster should have blamed his own former team for the lottery system and not busted the Spur's chops when he made that 1998 lockeroom quote about the Spurs cheating. Sir Charles doesn't always think when he speaks.

One last thing - guess which team came in 2nd place for the opportunity to draft Kareem in 1969 (by coin flip) and David Robinson in 1987 (by lotto)? The answer is - the poor Phoenix Suns! That should make most of us on this board smile.

[Harry Callahan]

rather than seeing the Spurs getting "dynasty status" because they aren't yet.


Please try to use complete sentences. Your grammar just isn't cutting it.

[2Cleva]

As Justin Timberlake would sing - "Cry Me a River."

:cry :cry :cry :cry







:lol

[Harry Callahan]

Collusion eh.....where do you come off....was there collusion when Jabar was traded....or when Shaq signed with the Lakers.....or when the spurs were hadned the #1 pick.

I hope you read my previous post so you can enlighten yourself about the Lakers trade history.

A question for you. Are you still in grade school? You make numerous spelling errors in your posts. You can't even spell the last name of your Hall of Fame center ("Jabbar" just so you'll know).

Are you lazy or just plain stupid? Just wondering.

[whottt]

Tanking is dickless.



So Jerry West is dickless? Because buddy...he tanked last season. In fact they had the worst record in the entire NBA last season. Just in time for Oden.


Oh...and this from Wikipedia:


has been reported that after he leaves Memphis, that West will indeed return to the Lakers front office, but only as a summer consultant, however it is reported that it is very unlikely for West to come back full-time, mostly due to his son playing collegiate basketball at West Virginia University




Maybe they thought it would be too obvious?

[venitian navigator]

I think that the one top blame here is not Popovich but Wallace, that decided to make a stupid challenge thinking nobody was gonna answer.
When you make a stupid thing (assuming it's not a collusion) you don't have to publicly ask to say if someone thinks you're stupid.
Popovich was totally legitimate to answer 'cause he's one among the coaches of play off teams fucked by that trade.
When asked, he just told what everybody thinks...(and, probably, he said that anly after Memphis refused to trade Miller to S.A. for expiring contracts)...that's not only been a bad trade, but a really suspect one...simply 'cause just turning around your head you could have received a far better deal than the one you made (alias : expiring contracts + better draft choices + better players).

By now looks like some people in some management is working against the best interest of the team that's paying him...due to his previous connections. Look at the mc hale garnett trade with celts, for example...but this Gasol trade is by far the most unanderstandable.
The point (I think) is that behaving this way is not professional...and owners should realize that is a high risk to give a team to a manager that's not completely sold on the greater good of the team that's paiyng him...

[2Cleva]

Honest, West says, it wasn't his deal
Former Grizzlies boss and Lakers legend praises Kupchak for getting Gasol.
February 9 2008

Finally, Jerry West can watch the Lakers without being swamped by the anxiety that drove him to pace the hallways or roam the freeways while the team he assembled became a behemoth that would win three consecutive NBA championships.

The Lakers still bear his imprint nearly eight years after he retired for the first time, after that first title, and they will forever have a claim on his heart. And West, back in Southern California full-time after five seasons as the Memphis Grizzlies' president of basketball operations, likes what he sees of his old team.

General Manager Mitch Kupchak's acquisition of 7-footer Pau Gasol from the Grizzlies for Kwame Brown, Javaris Crittenton and two first-round draft picks -- a trade West said he was not involved in, contradicting the rumors and conspiracy theories that have buzzed around the Internet -- was a good one, he believes.

And who's going to argue with Jerry West?

"I think they have the best team in the West and I said that before they got him," West said Friday in a rare interview.

"He's a terrific kid, a very skilled offensive player," West said of Gasol. "He's got size and some versatility. He's a very good player. It's a terrific deal for the Lakers.

"He's a wonderful person. Very team-orientated. If you're around him you'll find he's not aloof. I have nothing critical to say about him. This is a steal for the present."

West still follows the Lakers, but from a distance. That's purely by his choice.

The man who brought Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal to Los Angeles and made the Lakers the hottest ticket in town again, who mentored Kupchak and brought passion and dignity and pride to everything he did, would be welcomed at Staples Center any time he showed up.

Actually, the Lakers should commission a statue in his honor and plant it outside the building, so much do they owe him -- and so important is it that no one forget what he did for this franchise.

West visited Staples Center briefly on Dec. 30, the night the Lakers played the Boston Celtics and wore their throwback uniforms with the short-shorts. He participated in the ceremonial tipoff and then vanished, not lingering for interviews or self-indulgent plunges into pools of nostalgic memories.

"I don't go out that much," he said. "I've seen a lot of basketball. A lot of general managers and agents call me, but I'm trying to be out of the limelight. I really don't like being in the limelight."

He's not involved with any team now.

"And I'm not going to be," he said.

It takes some patience to discover why this retirement might stick.

West, who will be 70 in May, is still recovering from a dislocated shoulder he suffered in a golf-cart accident five months ago. For West, who wastes neither time nor words and speaks in emphatic, staccato bursts, it was a frustrating time.

"I'm just now getting to the point where I can do some things, like work out and lift weights," said West, who continues to follow a regimen of physical therapy.

"I am a very solitary person. I have to be active. I love to hit golf balls just to have something physical to do."

That was as much time as he was willing to spend on talking about himself.

"Let's get back to basketball," he said with a firmness that would allow no challenge.

"I think people are very excited about this trade, and obviously I'm very happy for Mitch. I've seen some of the criticism he's gotten here and it's not justified.

"The Lakers have always had a lot of great players, and there's a lot of good fortune involved in being in the right position to sign free agents. But when you can get a player who's 27 years of age and has that size and ability to score, that's good work."

Gasol had his most productive game as a Laker on Friday, scoring 30 points in a 117-113 victory over the Magic at Orlando. His defensive flaws are no secret, but West chose to leave any disparaging remarks to others.

That's fine. It's not his team and it's not his place and he looks better remaining on the high road.

"Pau has a good basketball IQ," West said. "This is a very positive thing for the Lakers and I think fans will appreciate him."

The Gasol trade was the first of three major moves by Western Conference contenders. In quick succession the San Antonio Spurs signed Damon Stoudamire to replace the injured Tony Parker and the Phoenix Suns acquired O'Neal from Miami.

West praised San Antonio Coach Gregg Popovich, saying the Spurs "play so well together. They have such camaraderie." The Suns, he speculated, "probably said, 'We want to win this year and we're probably not going to win if we don't do this.' " Adding O'Neal "changes the dynamics of it, for sure," West said.

But in his mind, there's still one clear favorite.

It's not the Suns.

Said West: "I still don't think they're as good as the Lakers."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-elliott9feb09,0,4181758,full.column


Find me anyone connected to the NBA who would ever call Jerry West dishonest and he'd be the first.

[ShoogarBear]

Medvedenko does have a point here. Where was Pop to cry foul at all the other ludicrous shit that has gone on in the NBA over the past couple of years? Only now that it directly affects his chances of winning a title does he give a shit. This isn't about integrity or stopping collusion, this is Pop pissed off that his chance to finally repeat might be squelched again by the Lakers.All of the other ludicrous shit was just stupidity.

This ludicrous shit was because of a mole colluding for another team and against the team he was supposed to be supporting.

[Bruno]

I find that funny to see Pop playing some mind games a la Phil Jackson with Lakers. Remember, the asterisk BS on the 99 title...

We will never know if there has been collusion or not but Grizzlies got a crappy package for Gasol. Either Grizzlies GM is horrible at negotiating or there have been collusion.

[whottt]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-elliott9feb09,0,4181758,full.column
.


Oh well....damn, if West said he didn't collude that that must mean he didn't. I mean what has he got to gain by saying he didn't collude?


I can't think of a single reason why he would collude and then say he didn't...not a single reason.


Thanks LakerFan...in sea of bias, your objective voice was a shining beacon of light :tu

[ShoogarBear]

In another news, Roger Clemens says he didn't use steroids.

[2Cleva]

Again - you guys are talking as fans. I've been around NBA personnel. I'm sure Kori can testify as well.

West's honesty is really beyond reproach.

[TDMVPDPOY]

now if a playoff team came up with the same offer for miller as to paus, memphis will not trade

thats just how stupid the trade was in the first place, unethical pratices

in european football, they can veto transfers, why cant the nba do that?

[xmas1997]

Right Pop...Fucking Bill Belichick of basketball. If that's the case Spurs should be investigated for tanking, cheating, and insider trading. First they tank for Timmy, beat up Steve Nash to get half the Suns team suspended, and they also give away Scola to the Rockets in some type of hand shake deal.

Fuck you Pop. Look in the mirror!

In case you didn't know, collusion is illegal and taints the sport.
If the league has guts enough they will investigate and disallow the trade as well as penalize L.A. severely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[whottt]

Again - you guys are talking as fans. I've been around NBA personnel. I'm sure Kori can testify as well.

West's honesty is really beyond reproach.


Sounds like someone is reproaching it now...



Tell me something...did it ever occur to you that Pop knows for a fact that the Grizzlies turned down better offers for Gasol?

[FromWayDowntown]

It's good to see that Lakers fans and Spurs fans have something to talk about again. This palaver of "my coach has more integrity than your coach" and "your team tanked to be as good as my team" stuff has been absent from this board for way too long.

[FromWayDowntown]

By the way, sometimes context is everything:


“There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense,” Popovich said, tongue planted firmly in cheek.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA020908_SpursNotes.en.a3d3fe36.html

[whottt]

By the way, sometimes context is everything:



http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA020908_SpursNotes.en.a3d3fe36.html



And sometimes...the first post in this thread is everything:




When told that Wallace had challenged executives to criticize the deal publicly, Popovich replied, "Well, there you go. I'm on the record."



http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86700


He didn't say he was joking...

[spursfan09]

Cry me a river tankers. You guys had "David soft as a marshmallow Robinson" and tanked it to get Duncan. Pop replaces Mike D as the biggest whiner in the league. Lakers already did y'all a favor by blowing up their team the first time around. Just goes to show you guys can only win by default or cheating like how you did when you tanked the season to get Timmy.

Timmy??? Thats Tim to you flaker fan.

[Rick Von Braun]

In another news, Roger Clemens says he didn't use steroids.

:lmao

I had to login to laugh about this comment :tu

[G-Nob]

Smells like collusion to me.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

get over it Pop. Scared of a bit of competition?

[picnroll]

get over it Pop. Scared of a bit of competition?
Pop fears nothing except losing his corkscrew.

[diego]

laker fans/ defenders of the trade- if the grizz are so keen to shed salary, and indifferent to winning, why hasnt 2nd highest paid player miller been traded for expirings and picks (not necessarily to spurs, to anyone)? to me thats whats fishy about the trade. why keep miller and his large contract around if your intention is to sell, performance be damned?

[FromWayDowntown]

And sometimes...the first post in this thread is everything:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86700

He didn't say he was joking...

If anything, whottt, I'd expect that you'd know by now that Pop's dry sense of humor isn't always obvious, particularly to those who aren't around him all of the time. I could see that Pop might say something that he intended to be a joke (and, frankly, the "I wish there was a trade committee" and "I would want to be elected to that committee" bits sound like Pop jokes more than Pop seriousness) but have that taken the wrong way.

I could also see that in going over the top, Pop made his point that he thought the trade was bogus.

I don't think it's impossible for one to be both pointed and sarcastic at exactly the same time -- and rarely does one trying to pull that off admit to making that effort.

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

Miller will be gone. He will be a Nugget by the deadline :smokin (wishful thinking)

[picnroll]

"What they did in Memphis is beyond comprehension," said Popovich.

That part I think hardly anyone would dispute with an IQ above 50. If you're trying to enhance value in a trade in the position Memphis is in for a sale you do it by picking up good young players and/or high draft picks to give the guy buying the team something to put fans in the seats with. Even if that means picking up a somewhat lousy contract for a copuple of years to get those pieces. Memphis got nearly absolutely nothing for the future to sell out of the trade. A questionable talent in Crittendon, who has about as much potential as every other late pick, and a couple of picks that have abouit a 10% statistical chance of staying in the league more than a few years.

[ChumpDumper]

And who's going to argue with Jerry West?Me.

Jerry West sucked so long and hard as GM in Memphis one can only conclude that any success in Los Angeles was due more to the draw of the Lakers team and market more than anything Jerry West personally did.

Really, did he do anything right in Memphis?

[duncan228]

Timmy??? Thats Tim to you flaker fan.

How about "Mr. Duncan" to Laker fan.

[remingtonbo2001]

Shut up trader. Nobody said anything about winning. This is about the Pau Gasol trade so take your ass kissing elsewhere.

Wasn't Majicman a Suns fan less than 48 hours ago?

:rolleyes And I thought the trolls were pathetic.

[DazedAndConfused]

This thread delivers on so many levels. One thing is certain, the Lakers-Spurs rivalry is back.

[m33p0]

Timmy??? Thats Mr. Duncan to you flaker fan.
better.

[duncan228]

better.

I thought so. :)

[phyzik]

It has to be collusion, nothing else makes a lick of sense.

[rascal]

You found the one thing the Spurs suck at "Tanking" since two teams had worse records than them

The Spurs tanked to improve their chances at getting Duncan. It was obvious Duncan was a franchise player and the number 1 pick that year.

The sason was over for the Spurs with Robinson out so long but he was able to play the last couple of weeks. The spurs saw no sense in playing him since they were out of the playoff hunt but still in the hunt to get the worst record.

It was a smart move to not play Robinson since they would have likely won more games and had a decrease chance at getting the lucky lottery ball (Duncan).

[T Park]

the Lakers-Spurs rivalry is back.

Get out of the first round and then maybe.

[T Park]

Popovich said, tongue planted firmly in cheek

I said that on the first page and got told otherwise... :)

[rascal]

Charles Barkley even said it and he played against you guys. I think he should know if guys are giving it their all or not and sometimes it's just so fucken obvious. Don't insult people's intelligence by saying otherwise. It's almost on par with the "Al Queda" bullshit the Bush administration shoves down our throats. Anybody with a clue sees through the bullshit. Fucken tanker cheaters pointing fingers.

Agree with this.

[T Park]

but he was able to play the last couple of weeks

Link to the trainers saying this please?

Thanks.

[ShoogarBear]

According to Chad Ford (as quoted in TrueHoop), Pop isn't the only one. He's just the only one with the guts to go on record.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-30-33/Memphis-GM-Chris-Wallace-to-Critics--Show-Your-Faces.html


While most GMs weren't publicly venting their frustration on having missed out on Gasol, plenty were willing to do so privately.

The excuses ranged from blaming Grizzlies GM Chris Wallace to blaming their owners to ... well ... pointing the finger in just about every direction but their own.

One GM I spoke to asserted he had a better deal to offer, claiming that Wallace didn't return his calls.

Another said that just two weeks ago, Wallace was asking for twice as much in return. If this GM had known the Grizzlies were lowering the asking price on Gasol, he would've made another offer, he said.

A Western Conference GM said the Grizzlies' timing threw him off: "Big trades like this normally don't happen until after the All-Star break. Who would've guessed that the Grizzlies would've jumped the gun and taken such a lopsided deal three weeks before the trade deadline?"

Another prominent GM said his owner vetoed any trade that would've pushed his team into luxury-tax territory.

Sour grapes, anyone?

If the first bolded statement is true, collusion is just about proven.

The second bolded statement is pretty damning, too.

These guys should go on record with what they were offering.

[T Park]

Of course Rascal sides with the Spurs haters what a shock.

[picnroll]

Agree with this.

Wilkins,Dominique
Williams,Monty
Anderson,Greg
Del Negro,Vinny
Johnson,Avery
Smith,Charles (in and out with his chronic knees)
Alexander,Cory
Maxwell,Vernon
Perdue,Will
Feick,Jamie
Elliott,Sean (Elliott was out with quad surgery)
Herrera,Carl (in and out with knees)


Yeah that team should have been kicking ass with an out of shape Robinosn with a bad back coming back if he could.

Boston and Vancouver had the worst records by far then there was a pack of Philly, Denver and SA. Dnever went 2-10 over the last month and Philly 0-12. Spurs went 2-10. Denver truly sucked and played everybody. Philly had starters Scott Williams and Coleman out with a "sore shoulder" and a "calf contusion" respectively over that time.

[rascal]

It seems Stupid and Retarded...OOPS, I mean Dazed and Confused and the rest of the frontrunning Laker people don't understand the history of their own team that well.

The success of the Lakers, outside of the the championships of the old Minneapolis Lakers, has been based upon taking advantage of the stupid GMs of stuggling teams.

Look at the trades made for centers. Acquiring Wilt Chamberlain for three players none of you have heard of from the 76ers in 1970. An NBA title came in 1972.

Acquiring Kareem Abdul-Jabbar from the Bucks for four players (the best of which were Junior Bridgeman and Brian Winters) - not even remotely equal compensation. Kareem was the MVP of the league many times in LA and five NBA titles were won during Jabbar's tenure as a Laker.

Let's go to 1996 - stealing Shaquille O'Neal from an Orlando Magic team offering Shaq more money than LA. In the same year getting Kobe Bryant from the Hornets for Vlade Divac in his contract year - the Charlotte Hornets end up getting one year out of Vlade and he walks to Sacramento as a FA. Once again - getting outstanding players for next to nothing or garbage.

Do you how the Lakers got Magic Johnson? A completely washed up Gail Goodrich signed as a FA with the New Orleans Jazz in 1976 and the NBA League office decided (as was the case at the time) that the Jazz should compensate LA with a No 1 pick in 1979 - which turned out to be the 1st pick overall and Magic Johnson. Once again, a HOFer for garbage.

How did James Worthy get to be a Laker? In 1980, the Cleveland Cavaliers just had to have Don Ford in and a low Laker 1981 1st rounder for Butch Lee and a 1982 first rounder. Low and behold, that 1982 pick turns into the 1st overall again and James Worthy - another HOFer for garbage. See a pattern here? The Lakers essentially have been getting something for nothing since 1970. It sure helps you stay on top when you can do that time after time after time after time. BTW, Byron Scott, another really good player, got to the Lakers in 1984 in a way similar to the Worthy deal.

For Spurs fans back in the 1980s such as me it was extremely frustrating to see this kind of stuff go on and know your team had little to no chance of beating the Lakers in the playoffs. We Spurs fans are a little sensitive when it comes to LA getting something for nothing way too many times.

As far as SA tanking games, I don't think the 1986-1987 Spurs tanked. That team was terrible and lost a ton of games. The Spurs lucked out and won the lottery and got David Robinson. A sidenote - when SA got the rights to DRob, none other than Brent Barry's dad (HOFer and NBA commentator) Rick said that Robinson should not sign with the Spurs, wait two years (until 1989) and sign as an unrestricted free agent with which team? You guessed it - the LAKERS! I'm glad David had some integrity and a sense of obligation to the city San Antonio.

The 1996-1997 Spurs team also stuck because of Robinson's broken foot and a rash of injuries to lesser players on the squad like Chuck Person. Is it possible Robinson was held out late in the season? Yes, but that still didn't guarantee anything on the draft pick. SA just got lucky again and won the chance to draft Duncan. San Antonio at least had to endure really bad seasons to get Robinson and Duncan - they did not get the free ride the Lakers got through the years.

The team that is responsible for the lottery we have today (and not the old coin flip with the two worst teams) is the Houston Rockets, who had the first pick in 1983 (Ralph Sampson) and 1984 (Akeem Olajuwon). The 83-84 Rockets team coached by Bill Fitch was playing Elvin Hayes (in his last year) 40 minutes a game late in the season and doing other weird stuff with the lineup to get a 50% chance at the first pick in '84. Without the Rockets misdeeds, the Spurs likely would not have the 4 NBA championships we currently enjoy today.

Dazed and Confused, the Chuckster should have blamed his own former team for the lottery system and not busted the Spur's chops when he made that 1998 lockeroom quote about the Spurs cheating. Sir Charles doesn't always think when he speaks.

One last thing - guess which team came in 2nd place for the opportunity to draft Kareem in 1969 (by coin flip) and David Robinson in 1987 (by lotto)? The answer is - the poor Phoenix Suns! That should make most of us on this board smile.


This is a great post and sums up the history of the spurs and Lakers well.

The Lakers through the years have found a way to turn a weak team around quickly. They don't stay down for very long. They have a good front office that is willing and able to jump at an opportunity to screw another franchise to land star players. The Spurs have needed to rely on lucky lottery ball bounces to get top players.

[rascal]

Of course Rascal sides with the Spurs haters what a shock.

No shock there. I don't agree with you on most everything.

You are weak minded. Your not able to make your own decisions but allow others to dictate what they want you to believe(conservative talk radio).

[JPB]

According to Chad Ford (as quoted in TrueHoop), Pop isn't the only one. He's just the only one with the guts to go on record.

i think that if Pop is going on the front line, it's :

-first, because he's obviously personnaly pissed off

-but also because if someone has to represent and speak for everyone, that's him.

I think having discussed with other GMs, he may feel that, as the reigning NBA champion and as a GM of the most respected organization in the league, he has the legitimacy and the responsibility to say on record what's being said off.

[picnroll]

According to Chad Ford (as quoted in TrueHoop), Pop isn't the only one. He's just the only one with the guts to go on record.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-30-33/Memphis-GM-Chris-Wallace-to-Critics--Show-Your-Faces.html
If the first bolded statement is true, collusion is just about proven.

The second bolded statement is pretty damning, too.

These guys should go on record with what they were offering.
If there is truth to GMs should just go public and force the league to clean up the crap. Maybe the league hierarchy just wants to may sure there's always a strong franchise in Hollywood for monetary reasons and give them a little help if they need it. Sure seems that way.

[rascal]

Link to the trainers saying this please?

Thanks.

You think the spurs trainers will say anything? Of course you don't, so why ask. If you followed the team back then it was believed by many in the league that Robinson could have played towards the end of the year.

I had Robinson on my fantasy team back then and I remember he was supposed to be back towards the end of the year when he first went out but that changed after the spurs season went in the tanks.

If you want to believe otherwise because it makes you feel better believing the spurs would never think about tanking thats your thing.


I say it was a smart move to not play Robinson. I am not knocking the decision to sit Robinson but unlike you, I am no homer to say the Spurs did not tank or were in no hurry to get Robinson back on the court so they could win a few more games to decrease their chances at getting the top pick.

[DazedAndConfused]

How many GM's said the same thing to reporters when McHale sent KG to Boston?

McHale has gone on record to say that other GM's are lying and their proposals weren't what they were telling the reporters. Who are you going to believe? There's not one shred of evidence or proof to prove anything in either case. Just mindless speculation.

[slayermin]

How many GM's said the same thing to reporters when McHale sent KG to Boston?

McHale has gone on record to say that other GM's are lying and their proposals weren't what they were telling the reporters. Who are you going to believe? There's not one shred of evidence or proof to prove anything in either case. Just mindless speculation.

Difference is Al Jefferson >>> Brown/Crittenton/Spanish dude

[ChumpDumper]

Who are you going to believe?Always believe the GM trying to justify a stupid trade and save his job at the same time.

[T Park]

If you followed the team back then it was believed by many in the league that Robinson could have played towards the end of the year

Of course they thought that.

Of course I listened to Jay Howard, who at the time knew John Anderson really well, and John Anderson said that his foot had not healed 100% and they weren't gonna bring back robinson unless he was 100%.


But continue to believe bullshit that you make up.

[remingtonbo2001]

You think the spurs trainers will say anything? Of course you don't, so why ask. If you followed the team back then it was believed by many in the league that Robinson could have played towards the end of the year.

I did follow the team that year. I remember specifically that yes, Robinson could've come back, maybe the last month of the season, HOWEVER not at a level of 100%
And exactly, where would that have gotten the Spurs? We certainly wouldn't have made the playoffs. We might have obtained the 7th worst record, instead of 4th. At the same time, we would have also jepordize Robinson's future.

That isn't tanking, it's being intellegent. A quality which is apparently lacking in DC and Majicman.

If you wanna call it tanking, by all means go ahead and live in fantasy land.
You don't jepordize your main assest when there is nothing to gain.

[T Park]

They obviously should've brought Robinson back at less than 100%, rehurt the foot, so he couldn't play the WHOLE next year, just so the conspiracy theorists like dumb confucked and the supposed "real fan" rascal would have no ammo.

[MajicMan]

Do you guys prefer to be called the "San Antonio Tankers" or the "One and Done Spurs"?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Do you guys prefer to be called the "San Antonio Tankers" or the "Four and Done Spurs"?
Fixed.

I prefer neither, BTW.

[MajicMan]

Fixed.

I prefer neither, BTW.
One and done meaning you never repeat or defend your title. Can you imagine Ali never defending his title? Oh wait, he's considered the g.o.a.t.s and you guys aren't. Bad example. So far your rings consist of a championship in a shortened year. We'll have to put an asterisk right next to that one. (You weren't able to defend your title the following year). You then go on to beat the Nets 4-2, a team in which the Lakers swept. (You weren't able to defend your title the following year). You go on to beat a Detroit Pistons team in which former Laker great bench player Robert Horry had to come to the rescue of superstar Tim Duncan who was sitting on the bench shaking his head in disgust and defeat (mental breakdown on the level of Britney Spears). (You weren't able to defend your title the following year). You go on to beat a Cleveland Cavs team who by default because of major injuries to the teams they played made it all the way to the NBA finals. There should be asterisks next to almost every championship you guys have won and also an asterisk for tanking in the year Tim Dincan was drafted in the lotto so piss off about not landing Pau Gasol yourselves you jealous hypocritical haters.

Shaq, who owns your sould is back in the West and the Lakers (who also own your souls) are back so deal with it. History says the Spurs are default second tier champions who are incapable of defending their title. This is the "Wild Wild West" Pop not communist Cekoslovakia so eat shit you oppressive dick head. Also, the Spurs should have themselves investigated for signing Matt Bonner. I mean, what was the logic in that? Why didn't the Spurs stop us from re-signing Luke Walton? Where is Pop when you need him?

[ShoogarBear]

Jerry West is the Tim Donaghy of GMs.

[timvp]

By the way, sometimes context is everything:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA020908_SpursNotes.en.a3d3fe36.htmlYeah, I didn't think that Pop seriously wanted to head a trade committee :lol

But the rest of his blasts over the last couple days have been because he was mad and not because he was trying to be funny.

[timvp]

And yeah, Jerry West is the dirtiest GM of all-time. He liked Kobe in the draft so what he do? He had Kobe demand a trade to the Lakers and only to the Lakers.

Yeah, that's really fair and ethical :rolleyes

[timvp]

Again - you guys are talking as fans. I've been around NBA personnel. This might be the most obnoxiously pretentious line in the history of SpursTalk.

[ChumpDumper]

Again - you guys are talking as fans. I've been around NBA personnel.RC Buford gave me the answer to a Spurs trivia question at the Toros draft party.

Top that, bitch!

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

:lol

Pop totally said this with his trademark sarcasm and dry humor.

I can see the ugly wry smile just reading it.
god you're dumb

[ShoogarBear]

RC Buford gave me the answer to a Spurs trivia question at the Toros draft party.
RC sure likes giving things away.

[FromWayDowntown]

RC Buford gave me the answer to a Spurs trivia question at the Toros draft party.
RC sure likes giving things away.

Nah -- Chump gave up an expiring contract and a 2077 second round pick.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

One and done meaning you never repeat or defend your title. Can you imagine Ali never defending his title? Oh wait, he's considered the g.o.a.t.s and you guys aren't. Bad example. So far your rings consist of a championship in a shortened year. We'll have to put an asterisk right next to that one. (You weren't able to defend your title the following year). You then go on to beat the Nets 4-2, a team in which the Lakers swept. (You weren't able to defend your title the following year). You go on to beat a Detroit Pistons team in which former Laker great bench player Robert Horry had to come to the rescue of superstar Tim Duncan who was sitting on the bench shaking his head in disgust and defeat (mental breakdown on the level of Britney Spears). (You weren't able to defend your title the following year). You go on to beat a Cleveland Cavs team who by default because of major injuries to the teams they played made it all the way to the NBA finals. There should be asterisks next to almost every championship you guys have won and also an asterisk for tanking in the year Tim Dincan was drafted in the lotto so piss off about not landing Pau Gasol yourselves you jealous hypocritical haters.

Shaq, who owns your sould is back in the West and the Lakers (who also own your souls) are back so deal with it. History says the Spurs are default second tier champions who are incapable of defending their title. This is the "Wild Wild West" Pop not communist Cekoslovakia so eat shit you oppressive dick head. Also, the Spurs should have themselves investigated for signing Matt Bonner. I mean, what was the logic in that? Why didn't the Spurs stop us from re-signing Luke Walton? Where is Pop when you need him?
So when exactly did you jump from the Suns' to the Lakers' bandwagon?

[MajicMan]

I was always a Lakers fan and tried to be a fair and objective basketball fan overall. Since the Pau trade a lot of Spurs fans have been kicking dirt on us so I turned into a dick just like you guys. I was a Suns fan for about a week lol. Might as well let their team take the blame for the shit I stir. I don't like them either. More so than I don't like you guys if you can imagine that but then again they don't have too many "real fans".

[picnroll]

One and done meaning you never repeat or defend your title. Can you imagine Ali never defending his title? Oh wait, he's considered the g.o.a.t.s and you guys aren't. Bad example. So far your rings consist of a championship in a shortened year. We'll have to put an asterisk right next to that one. (You weren't able to defend your title the following year). You then go on to beat the Nets 4-2, a team in which the Lakers swept. (You weren't able to defend your title the following year). You go on to beat a Detroit Pistons team in which former Laker great bench player Robert Horry had to come to the rescue of superstar Tim Duncan who was sitting on the bench shaking his head in disgust and defeat (mental breakdown on the level of Britney Spears). (You weren't able to defend your title the following year). You go on to beat a Cleveland Cavs team who by default because of major injuries to the teams they played made it all the way to the NBA finals. There should be asterisks next to almost every championship you guys have won and also an asterisk for tanking in the year Tim Dincan was drafted in the lotto so piss off about not landing Pau Gasol yourselves you jealous hypocritical haters.

Shaq, who owns your sould is back in the West and the Lakers (who also own your souls) are back so deal with it. History says the Spurs are default second tier champions who are incapable of defending their title. This is the "Wild Wild West" Pop not communist Cekoslovakia so eat shit you oppressive dick head. Also, the Spurs should have themselves investigated for signing Matt Bonner. I mean, what was the logic in that? Why didn't the Spurs stop us from re-signing Luke Walton? Where is Pop when you need him?
Next title the Lakers win with their own talent will be their first.

[Strike]

Right Pop...Fucking Bill Belichick of basketball. If that's the case Spurs should be investigated for tanking, cheating, and insider trading. First they tank for Timmy, beat up Steve Nash to get half the Suns team suspended, and they also give away Scola to the Rockets in some type of hand shake deal.

Fuck you Pop. Look in the mirror!

:troll

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

his reaction basically confirms that the Spurs are in deep shit, the Grizz gave the Lakers a 20/10 big man who is not even 30 yet for nothing

[remingtonbo2001]

I was always a Lakers fan and tried to be a fair and objective basketball fan overall. Since the Pau trade a lot of Spurs fans have been kicking dirt on us so I turned into a dick just like you guys. I was a Suns fan for about a week lol. Might as well let their team take the blame for the shit I stir. I don't like them either. More so than I don't like you guys if you can imagine that but then again they don't have too many "real fans".

:lmao ST might want to consider using an age verfication system before granting membership.

[Fabbs]

Yeah, I didn't think that Pop seriously wanted to head a trade committee :lol

But the rest of his blasts over the last couple days have been because he was mad and not because he was trying to be funny.
Timvp,
So who is Jeff McDonald and is he on the board?

[Strike]

Shut up trader. Nobody said anything about winning. This is about the Pau Gasol trade so take your ass kissing elsewhere.

Who/what is LA24 trading?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

If that's the case Spurs should be investigated for... insider trading.
Do you know what you just said, bandwagoner?

[ClingingMars]

Cry me a river tankers. You guys had "David soft as a marshmallow Robinson" and tanked it to get Duncan. Pop replaces Mike D as the biggest whiner in the league. Lakers already did y'all a favor by blowing up their team the first time around. Just goes to show you guys can only win by default or cheating like how you did when you tanked the season to get Timmy.

funniest post of the week

-Mars

[ClingingMars]

grizzles gave the Lakers a future NBA title for...nothing.

lawl

-Mars

[ClingingMars]

:toast

http://www.picpop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/Newbie/normal_noob.jpg

-Mars

[Strike]

get over it Pop. Scared of a bit of competition?

Not from Denver.

[DazedAndConfused]

I gotta admit if I were a Spur's fan I'd be pissed too.

Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, Derek Fisher, Phil Jackson

That's as formidable a starting 5 as there is in the NBA and it's only going to get better as the years go by. Gasol was born to play in the triangle offense, scoring 30 pts against D12 shooting 12-15 in only his 3rd game with the Lakers tells me he is going to have a long future in LA. Bynum is only 20 and if he ever reaches his true potential there is not a team in this league that would be able to contain him, Kobe Bryant, and Gasol at the same time.

[CaptainLate]

You do not talk sarcasm or poke fun of ur opponent every day....Think about Spur's forum reaction if Spurs made the trade and Jackson talk like this every day.

First of all this trade is not bad. I do not find any bad motive among these two teams. Memphis wants to sell the team and wants to get ride of guys that are making big salaries. Just happened that Lakers were in right place at right time. They came up with Brown's contract that is expiring this year.

Do not forget the fact that SA did similar stuff with Scola.

Right place at the right time my a**. The whole league was caught by surprise :wtf -- except the "guilty" parties. :madrun

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'd bet that the Spurs threw a few scenarios at the Grizz when they were pursuing Gasol awhile back that were probably more lucrative than what LA gave up to get Gasol now.

That's the only way I can explain Pop being this pissed about this trade. I'm sure he was like "WTF, we offered better than a crappy center and a bag of chips...we offered TWO crappy centers and a bag of chips!!!" Hell, this was last year when Butler was still around so perhaps his quote was more like "...THREE crappy centers and a bag of chips!!!" :madrun

[ploto]

I think having discussed with other GMs, he may feel that, as the reigning NBA champion and as a GM of the most respected organization in the league, he has the legitimacy and the responsibility to say on record what's being said off.
Pop isn't even the GM.

If some GM who wanted to trade for Pau says he thought the asking price was too high A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO and he did not call back every day, then HE is stupid. He claims if he knew the demands changed, then he would have made another offer. Well, he should have stayed on top of it. The one GM who says it caught people by surprise because of the timing of the trade-- not closer to the deadline- shows these guys all got outsmarted.

No team is under any obligation to make some trade that another particular team claims is THE best trade. Who knows- maybe the GM of the Grizzlies thinks the guy is an asshole and simply does not want to do business with him.

[Man In Black]

One and done ...BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...
15 hours later...he responds by opening pie hole.

One and done should be your mission statement for your existence here.

Dude your posts still suck and I gotta tell you...YOU DO REALIZE THATYOUR PRIMARY TEAM HASN'T WON ANYTHING IN 4 SEASONS, and that your other other team has never won it all?

Hey...you can count to 4 right?




:fro

[DazedAndConfused]

Pop isn't even the GM.

If some GM who wanted to trade for Pau says he thought the asking price was too high A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO and he did not call back every day, then HE is stupid. He claims if he knew the demands changed, then he would have made another offer. Well, he should have stayed on top of it. The one GM who says it caught people by surprise because of the timing of the trade-- not closer to the deadline- shows these guys all got outsmarted.

No team is under any obligation to make some trade that another particular team claims is THE best trade. Who knows- maybe the GM of the Grizzlies thinks the guy is an asshole and simply does not want to do business with him.

Ssshhh we all know if the trade doesnt work in NBA 2k8 Spurs fans will cry collusion.

[Man In Black]

Pop is even more GM than you think. When you are The Executive Vice-President of Basketball Operations, you OWN the GM...think about it.

Collusion...it seems like it...it just can't be proved...yet.

[DazedAndConfused]

Phil Jackson should buy Pop a lifetime supply of Proactive. That dude has more craters on his face than the moon.

[Rummpd]

Lakers only defended their title during their 3 peat run due to the most sublime referring in game 6 and a big shot in game 5 by
Horry. Even Shaq and Kobe were not invinceable. Regards, Peter

[DazedAndConfused]

Damn Rummpd you forget about 01' so quickly when the Spurs lost in the most lopsided NBA Conference Finals in HISTORY? We only lost 1 game in the entire playoffs that year.

And yes they don't call him Big-Shot Bob for nothing. I believe you guys benefited from a well-timed hip check to a certain Steve Nash last year.

[FromWayDowntown]

The retort to an argument about '02 is pointing to '01?

Do Lakers fans just choose to forget 1999?

[ShoogarBear]

The retort to an argument about '02 is pointing to '01?

Do Lakers fans just choose to forget 1999?1999? None of these guys were Laker fans yet.

[DazedAndConfused]

Was Phil Jackson coaching in 1999? Didn't think so. And yes he made all the difference for the Lakers.

[picnroll]

Was Phil Jackson coaching in 1999? Didn't think so. And yes he made all the difference for the Lakers.
After getting their asses kicked in '03, Kobe, Shaq and Phil got on their knees and beg and fellatioed Payton and Malone to come save them from those big, mean Spurs. I remeber their crying well.

[DazedAndConfused]

Well you can hold onto that '03 victory because that's the only one you got on us during our 5 year domination of the NBA. 3 titles, back to back to back.

[picnroll]

Well you can hold onto that '03 victory because that's the only one you got on us during our 5 year domination of the NBA. 3 titles, back to back to back.
Not the Spurs fault the Lakers couldn't man up with the rest of the West for the last 3 years. Maybe now that West got Wallace to bend over for the Lakers they can hang with the rest again.

[spursjustice]

Shit happens all the time just like when Minne was dealing under the table with Joe Smith and the Pats filming other teams except for the fact that these two teams got caught. Spurs fucken tanked and they landed the number one pick. Why aren't they investigated? Not giving your all is a major sin in sports. Robert Horry plays dirty against the Suns and the Spurs get rewarded. If Pop wants to talk about a basketball committee the committee would have fucken vetoed the Shaq for Grant, Lamar, and Butler trade and also the Butler for Kwame trade and also the Scola for peanuts trade so he should shut his ugly face. All these recent trades for the Lakers that went down have been in their favor just like his "thank god they tore down the Berlin Wall or broke up the Soviet Union" or some shit like that comment about when the Lakers traded Shaq. Hypocritical two face whiny Pop should shut his trap. Fucken Bill Belichick of basketball.

I agree with you. Spurs should also be investigated for causing global warming.

[MajicMan]

I agree with you. Spurs should also be investigated for causing global warming.
They should. There are a lot of big flatulent things in San Antonio.

[spurscenter]

Fantasy basketball has more restrictions on collusion than the NBA.

greatest point ever

[Man In Black]

Question...how is it a 5 year domination when you only won 3 titles?

[JPB]

Pop isn't even the GM.

If some GM who wanted to trade for Pau says he thought the asking price was too high A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO and he did not call back every day, then HE is stupid. He claims if he knew the demands changed, then he would have made another offer. Well, he should have stayed on top of it. The one GM who says it caught people by surprise because of the timing of the trade-- not closer to the deadline- shows these guys all got outsmarted.

No team is under any obligation to make some trade that another particular team claims is THE best trade. Who knows- maybe the GM of the Grizzlies thinks the guy is an asshole and simply does not want to do business with him.

You know it's not the way it's working right ?

GM's are surprised because things didn't follow the regular, unwritten rules between them.
Negociations are supposed to be tight and difficult for a guy like Gasol and Wolves were in good position to negociate cos there wasn't any urgency for them. Hell, Gasol was on the blocks for 1 and a half year.

Don't you think Bulls, for example, didn't make a best offer than the Lakers ?
And I don't think Paxson is such an asshole that Wolves didn't want to deal with him. There's no such considerations anyway in business.
They saw better offers rejected during this span and suddenly, this trade ?

Other GM's didn't get outsmarted, they were certainly preparing their best, last offer for the ASG.
There was just no fuckin' way they could have imagined such an early, bizarre trade. That's why, they are shoked.

[timvp]

Gasol trade irks Spurs coach
Popovich calls swap incomprehensible
By Ronald Tillery (Contact)
Sunday, February 10, 2008

NEW ORLEANS -- Grizzlies head coach Marc Iavaroni would rather his team continue to battle opponents on the basketball floor. Not in a court of public opinion.

Iavaroni took the high road Saturday although he was well aware of the sharp criticism his team recently received from San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich.

Popovich, who also serves as the Spurs' president of basketball operations, called the trade that sent Pau Gasol to the Los Angeles Lakers for draft picks and salary-cap flexibility an incomprehensible deal.

"He's a great coach and they do a good job there," Iavaroni said when asked about Popovich's critique. "I don't read into anyone else's comments. That's just the nature of the league. People have a right to their opinion. We're just taking care of our best interests."

The Griz received Kwame Brown, rookie Javaris Crittenton, the rights to Marc Gasol and first-round picks in 2008 and 2010.

"What they did in Memphis is beyond comprehension," Popovich told SI.com. "There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense. I just wish I had been on a trade committee that oversees NBA trades. I would have voted no to the L.A. trade."

Last week, Griz general manager Chris Wallace expressed outrage that other NBA general managers leaked details of Gasol offers to national media, and then anonymously criticized their deal with the Lakers.

"Well, there you go," Popovich said. "I'm on the record."

Brown, with an expiring $9million contract, was the key to the transaction. The Griz are expected to clear $12 million-$13 million under the salary cap to shop for free agents this summer. If they stay idle in free agency, the Griz could have as much as $17 million to spend in 2009.

Popovich wasn't the only high-profiled NBA guru to put a spin on the deal.

Former Griz president and Lakers legend Jerry West granted the Los Angeles Times a rare interview, and praised the Lakers for doing the deal. Reportedly, acquiring Gasol could cost the Lakers $30million in luxury tax payments.

"(Gasol's) a terrific kid, a very skilled offensive player," West told the newspaper. "He's got size and some versatility. He's a very good player. It's a terrific deal for the Lakers. He's a wonderful person. Very team-oriented. If you're around him, you'll find he's not aloof. I have nothing critical to say about him. This is a steal for the present."

West also insisted he didn't broker the transaction, which backed up Griz owner Michael Heisley's statements when asked about rampant speculation to the contrary. West insisted he isn't involved with any team.

"And I'm not going to be," he said.

[Rummpd]

Damn Rummpd you forget about 01' so quickly when the Spurs lost in the most lopsided NBA Conference Finals in HISTORY? We only lost 1 game in the entire playoffs that year.

And yes they don't call him Big-Shot Bob for nothing. I believe you guys benefited from a well-timed hip check to a certain Steve Nash last year.


Spurs only lost 2x in one of their runs as well. Spurs were also missing their 2nd leading scorer in the series you quote due to injury. The LAL were a very good team but the Spurs are now their equal and in this last decade the more dominant franchise.

[Spurs Brazil]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA021008.1Cbuck_0210.en.37cc151.html

Buck Harvey: For Spurs, what goes around went through Memphis

Web Posted: 02/09/2008 11:23 PM CST

Buck Harvey
Express-News Staff Writer

BOSTON — Kevin Garnett isn't expected to play today, which is fitting. To the Spurs, KG is out of the West and out of mind.
The Spurs are more concerned with someone who went the other direction in a trade, and Gregg Popovich addressed that Friday night with passive-aggressive humor. No, he's not in awe with how the Memphis Grizzlies do business.


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But as the Spurs shake their heads, others shook theirs two decades ago. Then the Spurs were the Grizzlies, foundering and looking to save a few dollars. And when they dealt a tall, smooth player named Mychal Thompson to the same Lakers who now have Pau Gasol, they irritated a franchise just as Memphis irritates them.

What goes around, George Gervin always said.

Thompson wasn't on Gasol's level. He'd once been a No. 1 overall pick, but injuries had slowed him. That's how the Spurs were able to obtain him. Thompson averaged about a dozen points in the half season he played in San Antonio, and he was in his 30s and going nowhere.

That's the astonishing angle of the latest Lakers' triumph. They not only landed a 7-footer who can shoot and pass, they also got a 27-year-old just entering his prime.

No wonder Popovich has mentioned this trade the past few days, the latest coming Friday. "What they did in Memphis is beyond comprehension," Popovich said then. "There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense. I just wish I had been on a trade committee that oversees NBA trades. I'd like to elect myself to that committee. I would have voted no to the L.A. trade."

Popovich said it with humor, but there was an edge there, too. He rarely criticizes other coaches or franchises, so "beyond comprehension" is some leap.

It also doesn't help the next time R.C. Buford calls the Grizzlies. A trade for Mike Miller sure got stickier, didn't it?

Popovich was on target, of course. Memphis created cap space and got draft picks, but they will be pressed to sign anyone better than Gasol. So Popovich wonders why, as do fans. Even letters to the L.A. Times wonder if Jerry West, recently a Memphis exec, conspired to make this happen.

They guessed the same last summer when Kevin McHale traded Garnett to his former Celtics teammate, Danny Ainge. Did McHale give a superstar to Ainge because they are buddies?

McHale laughed at the suggestion last week. "First of all, I have an owner," McHale told a Boston newspaper. "Then on my staff I have like seven guys. So for that whole thing to happen, it would have had to be, 'OK, this is what we're doing because we like Danny, but you can't tell the owner that.' Yeah, like that could ever happen. Are you kidding me?"

McHale instead did what the Grizzlies did. He took a losing hand and made it worse, with the hope that someday he will be in line for new cards.

The Spurs faced the same in 1987. They were on their way to 28 wins, as well as a franchise-saving moment. They didn't know it then, but David Robinson waited for them in the lottery.

By midseason they saw only failure and red ink. So the Spurs traded Thompson, and, in retrospect, they got a lot for him. The Lakers gave up players, a couple of draft picks and cash.

Still, when the deal was made, no one saw that. Thompson could be soft, just as Gasol can be now, but Thompson also had some of Gasol's gifts. He was 6-foot-10 with touch, and he was a bright guy.

Thompson also filled a Lakers' hole, spelling Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on the Showtime front line. In those years, when the Lakers and Celtics were the elite, he was precisely the piece the Lakers needed.

McHale felt it as much as anyone. He and Thompson, once teammates at the University of Minnesota, were matched against the other.

Thompson had one especially effective night in the 1987 Finals. And afterward, with the Lakers on their way to another title, Larry Bird went to the postgame podium with his own passive-aggressive humor.

Bird blamed the Spurs.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]

[Capt Bringdown]

Bird blamed the Spurs.


Interesting article. Is it true, about Bird blaming the Spurs?

[TwoHandJam]

Gasol trade irks Spurs coach
Popovich calls swap incomprehensible
By Ronald Tillery (Contact)
Sunday, February 10, 2008

...

Last week, Griz general manager Chris Wallace expressed outrage that other NBA general managers leaked details of Gasol offers to national media, and then anonymously criticized their deal with the Lakers.
...


Yeah, how dare those GMs expose his cronyism. Damn them.



...
West also insisted he didn't broker the transaction, which backed up Griz owner Michael Heisley's statements when asked about rampant speculation to the contrary. West insisted he isn't involved with any team.

"And I'm not going to be," he said.
...

The fact that West has had to deny persistent rumors of his involvement in this deal speaks volumes. Even Laker Fan doesn't believe Kupchak (aka Cupcake) was capable of this deal.

Actually, Laker Fan could care less how this deal got done even though it seems blatantly crooked. They're just happy that they're in contention after four straight seasons in the toilet. I have to admit, Laker Fan looked good in the toilet. *sigh*.

[FromWayDowntown]

Question...how is it a 5 year domination when you only won 3 titles?

Curiously, that resume entry (3 titles in 5 years) sounds familiar.

[Fabbs]

By Ronald Tillery (Contact) West also insisted he didn't broker the transaction, which backed up Griz owner Michael Heisley's statements when asked about rampant speculation to the contrary. West insisted he isn't involved with any team.

"And I'm not going to be," he said.
West when on to say "If I had brokered the transaction for Gasol to the Lakers for peanuts I would certainly would confess to doing so to the media and all."

[Fabbs]

[url]Buck Harvey
Express-News Staff Writer

The Spurs faced the same in 1987.

By midseason they saw only failure and red ink. So the Spurs traded Thompson, and, in retrospect, they got a lot for him. The Lakers gave up players, a couple of draft picks and cash.
Oh really Harvey?! Do explain in detail how the Spurs "got a lot for him".
Tell us again who those players were, who the draft picks ended up being, and the vast amount of cash involved.
And the inference that it was #1 David Robinson is dead wrong.

Also what McHale recieved for KG far outweighs what LA gave for Gasol.
Also McHale didn't sneak one offer under the table. He listened to stuff from all kinds of teams 1st, including Phxs offer(s). Memphis on the other hand turned down much better offers and then snuck this one thru.

[FromWayDowntown]

Oh really Harvey?! Do explain in detail how the Spurs "got a lot for him".
Tell us again who those players were, who the draft picks ended up being, and the vast amount of cash involved.
And the inference that it was #1 David Robinson is dead wrong.

Also what McHale recieved for KG far outweighs what LA gave for Gasol.
Also McHale didn't sneak one offer under the table. He listened to stuff from all kinds of teams 1st, including Phxs offer(s). Memphis on the other hand turned down much better offers and then snuck this one thru.

The Spurs got Frank Brickowski and Petur Gudmundsson in that deal. Brickowski did play a significant role for the Spurs between 1987 and 1990 and then was traded to Milwaukee to acquire Paul Pressey in August of 1990. Gudmundsson did very little and was waived in the middle of the 88-89 season.

They got a first round pick in 1987 (Cadillac Anderson) and a second round pick in 1990 (Sean Higgins). Anderson, you could say, proved to be a useful acquisition if only because he was packaged with Alvin Robertson to get Terry Cummings, who made the Spurs legitimate in 89-90. Sean Higgins was a bit like Gudmundsson -- did little in his rookie season and was waived early in the 91-92 season.

[Fabbs]

The Spurs got Frank Brickowski and Petur Gudmundsson in that deal. Brickowski did play a significant role for the Spurs between 1987 and 1990 and then was traded to Milwaukee to acquire Paul Pressey in August of 1990. Gudmundsson did very little and was waived in the middle of the 88-89 season.

They got a first round pick in 1987 (Cadillac Anderson) and a second round pick in 1990 (Sean Higgins). Anderson, you could say, proved to be a useful acquisition if only because he was packaged with Alvin Robertson to get Terry Cummings, who made the Spurs legitimate in 89-90. Sean Higgins was a bit like Gudmundsson -- did little in his rookie season and was waived early in the 91-92 season.
So essentially it did nothing to propel Spurs towards a title, which was supposed to be the plan when they were so down yet held Michael Thompson. Find it hard to believe that is all they got offered for Thompson, when they gave the LA Flamers exactly what they needed in a PF/SF who could score some. Not as stanky as this Gasol joke trade, but sure seems like someone within the Spurs at that time wore Laker underwear.

[SenorSpur]

Despite my Spurs homerism, I can't go with Pop on this one.

He's dead wrong to criticize the Grizz because IT AINT HIS BIZNESS! It's totally uncommon for him to speak out on another team's affairs. Why would he care? With Splitter coming next season, he certainly couldn't have been interested in Gasol.

He certainly shouldn't be worrying about The Fakers. Instead, he should be more concerned with how to improve his own roster with a player who isn't 34 years old or older. Had he not opened his big mouth, perhaps he had a chance to steal either Mike Miller or Hakim Warrick in the Memphis fire sale.

Sage advice for Pop: Shut up and upgrade your aging roster.

[TwinFlowers]

sounds like bitter grapes to me.

what are these better trades MEM could have gotten? i hear lots of talk but not much in the way of facts.

deal has to include immediate cap relief, players on their rookie K's, and picks. MEM is set at 1 and 3, have at least a capable 4 in warrick. so they need ideally a young 2, a young 5, and even with warrick you can always use another 4.

so those are the parameters: cap relief, rookie K's, an multiple picks. no swing players needed.

What did LA give? Over $11M in immediate relief, a very good young 1G/2G in javaris, and spanish league mvp 5 marc gasol. two picks, '08 and '10 with minimal protection.

let's see the better deals, and please make them realistic (ie, no CHI since they were not going to pay tax, no MIA because they were not going to give up this year's pick, no long term salary going back to MEM).

pony up with some scenarios.

[TwinFlowers]

MIN got one decent player for KG, and that's if you just look at offense and not defense. al jefferson still doesn't defend at all.

he's a solid player though, no doubt.

i think the problem with the MIN/BOS deal is what mchale turned down . . . a lot of people would say bynum, lamar, farmar, and the 17th pick (javaris critt) was a far better package than what he ultimately got.

[bostonguy]

MIN got one decent player for KG, and that's if you just look at offense and not defense. al jefferson still doesn't defend at all.

he's a solid player though, no doubt.

i think the problem with the MIN/BOS deal is what mchale turned down . . . a lot of people would say bynum, lamar, farmar, and the 17th pick (javaris critt) was a far better package than what he ultimately got.


Just saying, that was a much better package than what the Celts offered. Even I can admit that. Mchale wouldnt deal with a team that was a rival and in the west but he would pull the deal for his former team.

[conqueso]

Oh really Harvey?! Do explain in detail how the Spurs "got a lot for him".
Tell us again who those players were, who the draft picks ended up being, and the vast amount of cash involved.
And the inference that it was #1 David Robinson is dead wrong.

Also what McHale recieved for KG far outweighs what LA gave for Gasol.
Also McHale didn't sneak one offer under the table. He listened to stuff from all kinds of teams 1st, including Phxs offer(s). Memphis on the other hand turned down much better offers and then snuck this one thru.

Dude, chill out, I think what Buck meant was that they "got a lot for him" because their team got shittier, giving them a better opportunity to grab the number 1 pick in the draft.

[stxspurs]

ive never heard Pop complain about other teams or dealings....does the media not realize that it was probably said tongue and cheek?.....just like every other comment pop makes.
seems to me they SI wanted a lil drama and spun it the way they wanted

[conqueso]

sounds like bitter grapes to me.

what are these better trades MEM could have gotten? i hear lots of talk but not much in the way of facts.

deal has to include immediate cap relief, players on their rookie K's, and picks. MEM is set at 1 and 3, have at least a capable 4 in warrick. so they need ideally a young 2, a young 5, and even with warrick you can always use another 4.

so those are the parameters: cap relief, rookie K's, an multiple picks. no swing players needed.

What did LA give? Over $11M in immediate relief, a very good young 1G/2G in javaris, and spanish league mvp 5 marc gasol. two picks, '08 and '10 with minimal protection.

let's see the better deals, and please make them realistic (ie, no CHI since they were not going to pay tax, no MIA because they were not going to give up this year's pick, no long term salary going back to MEM).

pony up with some scenarios.

I thought the whole point of this trade for Memphis was to get a bunch of expiring contracts, period. They could have traded for seven small forwards and it wouldn't have mattered as long as their contracts came off the books in a year or two and made the team easier to sell.

So your parameters are too restrictive. All Memphis needed to get "value" for Gasol was cap relief. That doesn't have to be in the form of rookie contracts, and it doesn't have to be centers and power forwards.

And calling Javaris "very good" is kinda a stretch, isn't it? If he's so good, how come he had 21 DNP-CDs with the Lakers this year? He has some potential, that's all. Neither he nor Marc Gasol are sure things like Pau is.

[stxspurs]

so cal.....lame post....whats even more lame is u trying to find a pic that looks like pop :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

because their team got shittier, giving them a better opportunity to grab the number 1 pick in the draft.

Actually, back then, all a team had to do was not make the playoffs -- the chances of getting the #1 overall pick were equal for all teams in the lottery because each team had one envelope in the hopper and that envelope could have been drawn at any point. By 1987, the only difference that a bad record made was an assurance that if you didn't get a top 3 pick, you'd at least have a fairly low pick. In 1987, the rules changed so that the lottery determined only the top 3 teams and everyone else was slotted in order of record. But everyone had the same chance to end up in the top 3.

[conqueso]

because their team got shittier, giving them a better opportunity to grab a high pick in a very deep draft.

fixed

[Ghost Writer]

Um, with Pop blasting the Grizzlies front office, I guess we're definitely not getting Mike Miller now.

[conqueso]

Um, with Pop blasting the Grizzlies front office, I guess we're definitely not getting Mike Miller now.

Did we ever have a legitimate shot at getting Mike Miller in the first place?

Question.

[101A]

Did we ever have a legitimate shot at getting Mike Miller in the first place?

Question.
Not if he would help us in a series with the Lakers. ;)

[Ghost Writer]

Did we ever have a legitimate shot at getting Mike Miller in the first place?

Question.
Ask ChumpDumper.

Methinks "no."

[TwinFlowers]

no, MEM wanted more than just ending K for pau. they wanted the same things other teams want when they shed a player like gasol . . . relief, prospects on rookie payscale, and picks. so i don't think the terms are too restrictive. they've got conely and rudy, so sure, they'd take a 1 or a 3 back but you can't say they have a need at either of those spots. it would likely be a player they'd have to deal away later though.

javaris can play, no doubt. both ways. he got a lot of DNP's in LA because of phil's reluctance to play rooks and being behind fish and farmar on the depth chart. MEM has already said they'll use him as a 2G, something LA didn't do.

he was a steal at that part of the draft as was gasol in the 2nd. MEM wanted critt, LA wanted to keep him. he can play.

nothing is for certain with those two they're not locks by any stretch, but they're not junk.

MEM did ok here when you look at other 'realistic' scenarios.

i don't see any team willing to take on cardinal's K to get pau. if so, that may have been a better deal. i don't see any way MEM could have turned pau into a top 8 pick this year. if so, maybe that would have been a better deal so long as they got out of half his K or so.

i'm hoping some of you have deals in mind i'm not thinking of.

[conqueso]

Not if he would help us in a series with the Lakers. ;)

Yeah, I guess the problem I have with the Grizz-Lakers conspiracy theory is the same problem I have with most conspiracy theories, and that's motive. What motive would the Grizzlies have for handing the Lakers a championship? I guess the only thing I can think of is that West's hand-picked successor Chris Wallace is extremely loyal to West, who in turn is extremely loyal to the Lakers organization, and the call came down from Buss that they wanted Gasol and didn't want to trade anything except horribly shitty roster filler.

But doesn't it seem to be a stretch that Chris Wallace (who had a clear motivation to tank and get rid of the biggest contract on the team) would look to the Lakers--and no one else--to do a deal that could have been done with plenty of other teams, simply because his immediate successor told him to?

[ChumpDumper]

Ask ChumpDumper.

Methinks "no."Define legitimate.

Memphis is obviously in salary cutting mode but do the Spurs have the best deal to offer? Heisley is probably not breathing down Wallace's neck as much after the Gasol deal, so he can actually take his time dealing Miller.

[conqueso]

no, MEM wanted more than just ending K for pau. they wanted the same things other teams want when they shed a player like gasol . . . relief, prospects on rookie payscale, and picks. so i don't think the terms are too restrictive. they've got conely and rudy, so sure, they'd take a 1 or a 3 back but you can't say they have a need at either of those spots. it would likely be a player they'd have to deal away later though.

javaris can play, no doubt. both ways. he got a lot of DNP's in LA because of phil's reluctance to play rooks and being behind fish and farmar on the depth chart. MEM has already said they'll use him as a 2G, something LA didn't do.

he was a steal at that part of the draft as was gasol in the 2nd. MEM wanted critt, LA wanted to keep him. he can play.

nothing is for certain with those two they're not locks by any stretch, but they're not junk.

MEM did ok here when you look at other 'realistic' scenarios.

i don't see any team willing to take on cardinal's K to get pau. if so, that may have been a better deal. i don't see any way MEM could have turned pau into a top 8 pick this year. if so, maybe that would have been a better deal so long as they got out of half his K or so.

i'm hoping some of you have deals in mind i'm not thinking of.

Dude, the owner's trying to sell the team. He doesn't give a shit about "prospects"... he wanted guys who come off the books ASAP. Gasol has three years left on his deal after this season at an average salary of $16.5 million per year. Kwame's $9 mil is done after this year, and Crittenton $2.6 mil over the next two years. That shift in salaries obviously makes the team easier to sell. Since you're a Lakers fan, so I'm sure you know how much Kwame sucks, and while I agree that PJax hates rookies, Javaris isn't NBA ready, and no, his strength is not as a shooting guard, hence why he shot 35% threes in college but had good assist numbers. Marc Gasol might someday be good, but he is obviously a long-term project.

You're vainly trying to convince yourself that this was actually a "fair deal," when really it was pretty shitty. The Lakers took advantage of an owner who is bailing on his team, trying to cut his losses and run. I'm not saying there's any collusion or anything, and we certainly shouldn't turn this over to Congress so they can waste their time continuing to fuck around in the realm of pro sports, but it's still slimy. Deal with it. Don't keep lying to us, and definitely don't keep lying to yourself.

[Ghost Writer]

Define legitimate.

Memphis is obviously in salary cutting mode but do the Spurs have the best deal to offer? Heisley is probably not breathing down Wallace's neck as much after the Gasol deal, so he can actually take his time dealing Miller.
Well, I can't see them helping us out after Pop blasted them.

[conqueso]

Oh, and one more thing about this trade:

As it stands right now, the Grizz have ZERO guaranteed contracts in the Summer of 2010, which we all know is going to be the deepest, most wild and crazy free agent season of all time. Had they kept Gasol, they would have had to squeeze any signings around his $17.8 million salary for '10-'11. This has got to be a huge selling point for the team, since the owners can now pitch it as "Buy the Memphis Grizzlies! We've got a couple of potential fringe All-Stars as our core, we're so shitty we'll get great draft picks every season, and in 2010, you'll have the cap space to sign three marquee names!"

[ChumpDumper]

Well, I can't see them helping us out after Pop blasted them.Perhaps. I don't really see it as a blast though. It's been blown way out of proportion.

[101A]

Yeah, I guess the problem I have with the Grizz-Lakers conspiracy theory is the same problem I have with most conspiracy theories, and that's motive. I'm not one to buy into conspiracies, either. My post was pretty much tongue in cheek.

BUT, if I WERE to theorize, I would think that, more than anything, West would facilitate a deal whereby one owner (really rich guy with assets and interests far beyond the NBA) would figure out a way to compensate another owner (really rich guy with assets and interests far beyond the NBA), outside of the realm of basketball for an extremely unbalanced trade within the realm of basketball. Having intimate, absolutely trustworthy, ties to link the two owners would be essential; as direct communication would be dangerous. This particular triumvirate of G.M.'s/ex G.M.'s could provide that link and trust.

[conqueso]

I'm not one to buy into conspiracies, either. My post was pretty much tongue in cheek.

BUT, if I WERE to theorize, I would think that, more than anything, West would facilitate a deal whereby one owner (really rich guy with assets and interests far beyond the NBA) would figure out a way to compensate another owner (really rich guy with assets and interests far beyond the NBA), outside of the realm of basketball for an extremely unbalanced trade within the realm of basketball. Having intimate, absolutely trustworthy, ties to link the two owners would be essential; as direct communication would be dangerous. This particular triumvirate of G.M.'s/ex G.M.'s could provide that link and trust.

Yeah, I hear that, and that seems at least possible if not plausible, but they would have to get Chris Wallace on board with it at some point, and he would have to either agree with it in principle or be very afraid of losing his job based on how he's come out defending the move in the press. However, since he has no financial stake in the team, he has no need to blow it up to make it more marketable, so he couldn't possibly think he was making his team better, even over the next two or three years, with this trade. So I don't think he could be in favor of this deal in principle, and must instead have been threatened with like the loss of his job or something in order to come out now and act all outraged that people are crying foul.

[TwinFlowers]

Dude, the owner's trying to sell the team. He doesn't give a shit about "prospects"... he wanted guys who come off the books ASAP. Gasol has three years left on his deal after this season at an average salary of $16.5 million per year. Kwame's $9 mil is done after this year, and Crittenton $2.6 mil over the next two years. That shift in salaries obviously makes the team easier to sell. Since you're a Lakers fan, so I'm sure you know how much Kwame sucks, and while I agree that PJax hates rookies, Javaris isn't NBA ready, and no, his strength is not as a shooting guard, hence why he shot 35% threes in college but had good assist numbers. Marc Gasol might someday be good, but he is obviously a long-term project.

You're vainly trying to convince yourself that this was actually a "fair deal," when really it was pretty shitty. The Lakers took advantage of an owner who is bailing on his team, trying to cut his losses and run. I'm not saying there's any collusion or anything, and we certainly shouldn't turn this over to Congress so they can waste their time continuing to fuck around in the realm of pro sports, but it's still slimy. Deal with it. Don't keep lying to us, and definitely don't keep lying to yourself.

so then you're saying a deal that just sent ending K alone is better than one that sends ending K plus cheap rookie K talent and picks? you accused me of making the parameters to narrow, but dude, you just made them waaay to wide.

every team likes cheap talent. if critt and marc gasol (assuming he comes to the states next year) are on the MEM roster, that's TWO roster spots that are filled about as cheaply as you can fill an NBA roster spot. maybe a hair or two above the minimum scale. and even though they're slightly above the minimum NBA K, their talent far exceeds what you normally get in that price range.

i'm not trying to talk myself into anything. i just hear a lot of talk about all these better deals out there but i don't see anything realistic.

put up a better deal than what MEM got. just let me see it is all i'm asking.

[TwinFlowers]

and ivaroni has already said he's going to use critt at the 2G.

i agree he's best used as a 1 in this league. but he's got size and it gives MEM two ball handling guards who can create for themselves as well as others. javaris ripped up the summer league and had a solid camp. but phil is not going to play a rookie heavy minutes, especially when he's behind fish and farmar (who phil likes a lot and who had a great camp).

i don't expect you to believe me, but i'm getting it on record. critt can play.

[conqueso]

so then you're saying a deal that just sent ending K alone is better than one that sends ending K plus cheap rookie K talent and picks? you accused me of making the parameters to narrow, but dude, you just made them waaay to wide.

every team likes cheap talent. if critt and marc gasol (assuming he comes to the states next year) are on the MEM roster, that's TWO roster spots that are filled about as cheaply as you can fill an NBA roster spot. maybe a hair or two above the minimum scale. and even though they're slightly above the minimum NBA K, their talent far exceeds what you normally get in that price range.

i'm not trying to talk myself into anything. i just hear a lot of talk about all these better deals out there but i don't see anything realistic.

put up a better deal than what MEM got. just let me see it is all i'm asking.

Gasol for Nocioni, Noah and Joe Smith. Nocioni and Smith come off the books after this season, and Noah is in the first year of a rookie contract. All these guys are post players [EDIT: Well, Nocioni can play in the post, even though he's listed as a SF]. Seems to fit your criteria exactly. That trade would obviously have been better for Memphis if they actually intended on fielding a competitive team, and would have cleared some room in Chicago's frontcourt, given them the best defensive frontline in the league, and would have rejuvenated their stagnant offense.

[conqueso]

so then you're saying a deal that just sent ending K alone is better than one that sends ending K plus cheap rookie K talent and picks? you accused me of making the parameters to narrow, but dude, you just made them waaay to wide.

every team likes cheap talent. if critt and marc gasol (assuming he comes to the states next year) are on the MEM roster, that's TWO roster spots that are filled about as cheaply as you can fill an NBA roster spot. maybe a hair or two above the minimum scale. and even though they're slightly above the minimum NBA K, their talent far exceeds what you normally get in that price range.

i'm not trying to talk myself into anything. i just hear a lot of talk about all these better deals out there but i don't see anything realistic.

put up a better deal than what MEM got. just let me see it is all i'm asking.

Gasol for Najera, J.R. Smith, Kleiza, cash and picks. This trade would never happen because Denver doesn't need Gasol since that would give them the three most untradable-post-player-contracts-not-held-by-someone-with-the-initials-E.D. in the league. Kleiza has one more year left on his rookie deal, and Najera and Smith could come off the books after this season. This deal wouldn't make sense for Denver, but it would be much better for Memphis than Kwame, Crittenton and Marc Gasol.

[conqueso]

so then you're saying a deal that just sent ending K alone is better than one that sends ending K plus cheap rookie K talent and picks? you accused me of making the parameters to narrow, but dude, you just made them waaay to wide.

every team likes cheap talent. if critt and marc gasol (assuming he comes to the states next year) are on the MEM roster, that's TWO roster spots that are filled about as cheaply as you can fill an NBA roster spot. maybe a hair or two above the minimum scale. and even though they're slightly above the minimum NBA K, their talent far exceeds what you normally get in that price range.

i'm not trying to talk myself into anything. i just hear a lot of talk about all these better deals out there but i don't see anything realistic.

put up a better deal than what MEM got. just let me see it is all i'm asking.

Gasol for McDyess' expiring contract, Primoz Brezec's expiring contract, Jason Maxiell, both Detroit's trade exceptions, cash and picks. This would make Detroit better than they were when they beat the HoF laden Lakers in '04 (although it would thin out their frontcourt depth just a bit). Memphis would get back some size, a rookie prospect far superior to Crittenton, and cap flexibility.

[Holt's Cat]

I'm not one to buy into conspiracies, either. My post was pretty much tongue in cheek.

BUT, if I WERE to theorize, I would think that, more than anything, West would facilitate a deal whereby one owner (really rich guy with assets and interests far beyond the NBA) would figure out a way to compensate another owner (really rich guy with assets and interests far beyond the NBA), outside of the realm of basketball for an extremely unbalanced trade within the realm of basketball. Having intimate, absolutely trustworthy, ties to link the two owners would be essential; as direct communication would be dangerous. This particular triumvirate of G.M.'s/ex G.M.'s could provide that link and trust.


Taking it a step further, it took the league a while to figure out that one of its refs was crooked. And they were supposedly monitoring the refs for that very kind of activity. Anyways, what's done is done.

[101A]

Gasol for Nocioni, Noah and Joe Smith. Nocioni and Smith come off the books after this season, and Noah is in the first year of a rookie contract. All these guys are post players [EDIT: Well, Nocioni can play in the post, even though he's listed as a SF]. Seems to fit your criteria exactly. That trade would obviously have been better for Memphis if they actually intended on fielding a competitive team, and would have cleared some room in Chicago's frontcourt, given them the best defensive frontline in the league, and would have rejuvenated their stagnant offense.This deal also would have sent Gasol to the East; rather than setting up a Western competitor with a 27 year old PF to combine with Kobe to make life HARDER for the Grizzlies for the forseeable future.

[101A]

Taking it a step further, it took the league a while to figure out that one of its refs was crooked. And they were supposedly monitoring the refs for that very kind of activity. Anyways, what's done is done.The last word.

IMO

[conqueso]

so then you're saying a deal that just sent ending K alone is better than one that sends ending K plus cheap rookie K talent and picks? you accused me of making the parameters to narrow, but dude, you just made them waaay to wide.

every team likes cheap talent. if critt and marc gasol (assuming he comes to the states next year) are on the MEM roster, that's TWO roster spots that are filled about as cheaply as you can fill an NBA roster spot. maybe a hair or two above the minimum scale. and even though they're slightly above the minimum NBA K, their talent far exceeds what you normally get in that price range.

i'm not trying to talk myself into anything. i just hear a lot of talk about all these better deals out there but i don't see anything realistic.

put up a better deal than what MEM got. just let me see it is all i'm asking.

Gasol for Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, Rashad McCants, cash and picks. Ratliff and Telfair's deals are expiring, and McCants is actually a pretty decent player (much better at the SG position than Crittenton would be). Ratliff's expiring contract is huge though, since it's $11.6 mil and evaporates at the end of the season. Telfair is restricted, and there's no way anyone would offer him more than the $3.6 mil of his qualifying offer, so Memphis could play him this year and decide whether they wanted to keep him around as a project or let him go. Minnesota's frontline would be nasty good, and would allow Jefferson to develop his other skills (like rebounding and defense) since he wouldn't be carrying the main scoring load.

[DazedAndConfused]

Gasol for Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, Rashad McCants, cash and picks. Ratliff and Telfair's deals are expiring, and McCants is actually a pretty decent player (much better at the SG position than Crittenton would be). Ratliff's expiring contract is huge though, since it's $11.6 mil and evaporates at the end of the season. Telfair is restricted, and there's no way anyone would offer him more than the $3.6 mil of his qualifying offer, so Memphis could play him this year and decide whether they wanted to keep him around as a project or let him go. Minnesota's frontline would be nasty good, and would allow Jefferson to develop his other skills (like rebounding and defense) since he wouldn't be carrying the main scoring load.

How many teams can actually afford Gasol? How many teams actually want him? Answer those two questions 1st and then you'll realize how short the list of suitors was.

[conqueso]

How many teams can actually afford Gasol? How many teams actually want him? Answer those two questions 1st and then you'll realize how short the list of suitors was.

Of the four teams I listed, I think only Chicago ($47.6 mil payroll in '08-'09 after Gasol trade) and Minnesota ($67 mil payroll in '08-'09 after Gasol trade) could afford him (both of those payrolls are less than their payrolls this season). I think Chicago would definitely want Gasol, especially if it meant getting rid of Nocioni (who blows), Noah (who is an immature bitch) and Joe Smith (who is old as shit).

I found four trades that were better than the Lakers-Grizzlies trade, and I went through only half the teams in the league (A through M). The Chicago trade suits the needs of the Grizzlies much better (since they actually get some good players back), and suits Chicago just as well as the Lakers.

[TwinFlowers]

some of those look good on paper.

CHI is automatically out as there have been NUMEROUS articles in the Trib since the gasol trade calling out the CHI front office. word is they were simply NOT going to go into the lux tax to take on gasol . . . which adding PJ's K for trade purposes would have done. but i agree, had CHI been willing to do and had MEM wanted another 3 in Noch and had MEM wanted to add Noch's long term K this is a better trade.

That's one big NO (to using PJ as salary ballast) and a lot of if's though.


DET . . . you can't combine trade exceptions like that.


DEN . . . agree with you it doesn't make sense. so why bother with it? keep them in the realm of possibility.

MIN . . . rebuilding, so they don't deal picks. i hate sebastian's game, so maybe i'm biased against him, but another small 1 in MEM? why? mccants has had problems since UNC, is going to be due a new K soon. he could fit as a 2G i suppose, but it really comes down to is mccants a better prospect, alone, than critt and marc gasol are combined? i'd say no, but to each his own.

those deals are at least semi-realistic . . . except for CHI . . . and maybe DET if you come up with another means rather than combining the X's (can maxiell be a 4? make it amir johnson and i'd say this is probably at least on par with what LA gave up).

but again, none of those offers, even the non-doable ones, are so much better than what MEM got that it screams collusion.

[TwinFlowers]

oops, misread your CHI proposal . . . i'm bouncing between boards.

OK, good trade for MEM and CHI.

why didn't it happen even though both teams were talking for a year about gasol?

my guess is because CHI didn't want to give up that much for pau.

[TwinFlowers]

in fact i'm fairly certain that noch and the bulls #1 from last year (the NYK pick) were early demands of MEM that CHI refused.

so again, i don't think that trade, though better for MEM, was ever on the table nor would it ever be.

[JPB]

Arena's take on his blog :

The Gasol Trade
The Lakers stole Pau Gasol. They hi-jacked him. That should be a crime. You don’t give away Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown and a rookie. I don’t care what’s out there, you can get more than that. You gave away a $100 bill and you got back two nickels and a dime. Now the Lakers are a top four team, maybe even higher in the Western Conference. You have Bynum and the five and Pau at the four? That means you have two scorers who are 7-foot plus at the four and the five, which reminds me of David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Then you have Lamar Odom, who’s a 7-footer at the three and he gets to play free and do all the stuff he’s capable of doing, and then they have Mr. 81 at the two. You can put anybody at the one. Who cares who’s the one. I mean, they have their championship, veteran one in Derek Fisher, but that’s just a huge plus. You don’t even need him.

It seems like a pretty stupid move by Chris Wallace. No offense, I don’t know him personally, but you don’t give away Pau Gasol for what they got back. I mean, Chicago wanted Pau Gasol. They would have given something back in return. I mean, something. Ladies and gentlemen, they have Darko and Kwame at the four and the five. That’s all I’m going to say.

Shaq is back in the West and Kobe’s got Gasol - the two teams that hate each other with the two players that hate each other. Wow, how the NBA works.

[TwinFlowers]

so are we down to the DET trade?

comes down to whether maxiel is better value than critt and marc?

that's a pretty fine hair your splitting for all this fuss.

[101A]

Arena's take on his blog :

.. Wow, how the NBA works.Now THAT'S the last word.

[101A]

so are we down to the DET trade?

comes down to whether maxiel is better value than critt and marc?

that's a pretty fine hair your splitting for all this fuss.Because this is a board made up of NBA GM's paid to come up with the most creative ways to return value for an investment.

Grizzlies got raped. Lakers (most popular, best ratings draw team in the league) are the beneficiary. Just a coincidence. We get it, really.

[TwinFlowers]

some of you seem to.

i'll give you that much.

[VaSpursFan]

Arena's take on his blog :

The Gasol Trade
The Lakers stole Pau Gasol. They hi-jacked him. That should be a crime. You don’t give away Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown and a rookie. I don’t care what’s out there, you can get more than that. You gave away a $100 bill and you got back two nickels and a dime. Now the Lakers are a top four team, maybe even higher in the Western Conference. You have Bynum and the five and Pau at the four? That means you have two scorers who are 7-foot plus at the four and the five, which reminds me of David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Then you have Lamar Odom, who’s a 7-footer at the three and he gets to play free and do all the stuff he’s capable of doing, and then they have Mr. 81 at the two. You can put anybody at the one. Who cares who’s the one. I mean, they have their championship, veteran one in Derek Fisher, but that’s just a huge plus. You don’t even need him.

It seems like a pretty stupid move by Chris Wallace. No offense, I don’t know him personally, but you don’t give away Pau Gasol for what they got back. I mean, Chicago wanted Pau Gasol. They would have given something back in return. I mean, something. Ladies and gentlemen, they have Darko and Kwame at the four and the five. That’s all I’m going to say.

Shaq is back in the West and Kobe’s got Gasol - the two teams that hate each other with the two players that hate each other. Wow, how the NBA works.

agent 0 is hilarious :lol

[conqueso]

in fact i'm fairly certain that noch and the bulls #1 from last year (the NYK pick) were early demands of MEM that CHI refused.

so again, i don't think that trade, though better for MEM, was ever on the table nor would it ever be.

It certainly looks like Memphis' "early demands" when they tried dealing Gasol last season and early this season to the Bulls have lightened up quite a bit if they were willing to take on two guys who haven't shown anything on an NBA level and the disaster that is Kwame Brown.

If we're working with the assumption that Memphis did not favor trading with LA because of some sort of bias or whatever, then the Chicago trade helps Memphis a LOT more than the Lakers trade did. Nocioni and Smith's contracts expire after this season, and Noah is a much better prospect than Marc Gasol and Crittenton. It doesn't screw Chicago's salary much either, and they do have the money to afford paying the luxury tax. And it's not like they're "giving up that much"...they'd be trading a guy who has struggled to fit into their system and has underperformed all year (Nocioni), a guy who's on his last legs (Smith), and their young post prospect who has already alienated his teammates (Noah). In return, they'd be getting an elite Center not yet in his prime to pair with Ben Wallace, Luol Deng, Hinrich, Ben Gordon, and Tyrus Thomas. That team would have a chance of making a late playoff push (they're only a game and a half out of the eighth seed) and, at least on paper, looks good enough to compete with the Celtics and Pistons for the next couple of years.

[conqueso]

in fact i'm fairly certain that noch and the bulls #1 from last year (the NYK pick) were early demands of MEM that CHI refused.

so again, i don't think that trade, though better for MEM, was ever on the table nor would it ever be.

I guess the point I'm making is that Memphis asked for MUCH less from the Lakers last week than they might have been asking from the Bulls several months ago. Since they obviously have relaxed their demands, they could have gotten something much better from the Bulls than they got from the Lakers based on all of the things they were apparently looking for, but something caused them to take the shitty end of the stick and trade with the Lakers instead of with the Bulls.

[TwinFlowers]

It certainly looks like Memphis' "early demands" when they tried dealing Gasol last season and early this season to the Bulls have lightened up quite a bit if they were willing to take on two guys who haven't shown anything on an NBA level and the disaster that is Kwame Brown.

yep. and that's the way it is in the league. look at MIN's demands for KG as recently as last season, NJN's demands for kidd, IND's demands for JO, and yeah, MEM's demands for pau . . . you wait long enough they come waaaaay down.

CHI was not giving all that up for pau. call it dumb, i do, but that's the way it is. had they been willing to give that up pau would have been a bull before last year's draft.

MEM asked for that exact deal last year . . . sam smith has some spin out now about CHI making that pick available to MEM before that draft, but that's all it is, spin. all the sources out of MEM were/are saying had CHI ponied up either deng or noch and the rights to the NYK pick last year this is done long ago. they didn't.

so i agee with you, that would have been a much better trade, but it was asked for and rejected.

[TwinFlowers]

IND was demanding lamar odom AND bynum for JO this summer fer chrissakes.

you think they'll get anything close to that next summer?

it's this way more often than not.

[TwinFlowers]

and noccioni's K doesn't end next year. he inked a 5-year deal this summer. he's paid for a long time now.

sam smith even admits, in between a good dose a spin about what CHI had offered this offseason, that CHI and MEM had talked in recent weeks before the trade. MEM had talked to several teams.

and yet they chose an 'inferior' deal from LA why?

[conqueso]

It certainly looks like Memphis' "early demands" when they tried dealing Gasol last season and early this season to the Bulls have lightened up quite a bit if they were willing to take on two guys who haven't shown anything on an NBA level and the disaster that is Kwame Brown.

yep. and that's the way it is in the league. look at MIN's demands for KG as recently as last season, NJN's demands for kidd, IND's demands for JO, and yeah, MEM's demands for pau . . . you wait long enough they come waaaaay down.

CHI was not giving all that up for pau. call it dumb, i do, but that's the way it is. had they been willing to give that up pau would have been a bull before last year's draft.

MEM asked for that exact deal last year . . . sam smith has some spin out now about CHI making that pick available to MEM before that draft, but that's all it is, spin. all the sources out of MEM were/are saying had CHI ponied up either deng or noch and the rights to the NYK pick last year this is done long ago. they didn't.

so i agee with you, that would have been a much better trade, but it was asked for and rejected.

"All that?" All that?!? It's Nocioni, Noah and Joe Smith! For a team that was expected to rule the East this season and is currently 11th, trading those three dudes--none of whom are integral or even important pieces on their team--is nothing when Gasol is the payoff.

We can agree that if this trade (or something substantially similar) was offered to Chicago and they declined to do it, they were being dumb. But we have no clue whether Memphis even informed any team (other than the Lakers) that they were now all of a sudden willing to take pennies on the dollar for Gasol. In fact, some GMs are already coming out and saying that they had made overtures to Memphis for Gasol earlier in the season or last season but didn't deal because the price was too high. Why didn't the Grizzlies inform anyone else who they could have gotten much better deals from that their asking price had been slashed?

This is the issue that has caused so many eyebrows to be raised, as well they should, because if Memphis was willing to take "two nickels and a dime" for Gasol from anyone, they would have gotten way better offers than Kwame, Crittenton and Marc Gasol.

[conqueso]

and noccioni's K doesn't end next year. he inked a 5-year deal this summer. he's paid for a long time now.

sam smith even admits, in between a good dose a spin about what CHI had offered this offseason, that CHI and MEM had talked in recent weeks before the trade. MEM had talked to several teams.

and yet they chose an 'inferior' deal from LA why?

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

This site doesn't reflect that deal.

[ChumpDumper]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

This site doesn't reflect that deal.Blank spaces on that site mean they know he's signed for that season but don't know the terms.


Nocioni, a restricted free agent, signed a five-year contract reportedly worth $37.5 million....

The Bulls added some depth to their frontcourt with the signing of the 6-foot-10 Smith to a reported two-year contract worth the mid-level veteran exception of $5.36 million annually.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2941626

[TwinFlowers]

hoopshype is wrong. he re-signed early this summer. old news.

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content_1p.asp?ID=52458


and it's not me saying 'all that' . . . i would have gladly made that trade if i was the bulls GM.

but pax rejected that offer, noccioni and the knick's pick, plus K for gasol. i had assumed it was all on pax, but a lot of what i've read out of CHI since the trade makes me thing the bull's FO didn't want to commit that kind of salary to gasol.

i mean, i'm with you. i do that CHI trade too. but CHI didn't.

[conqueso]

Blank spaces on that site mean they know he's signed for that season but don't know the terms.



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2941626

Ah, gotcha. Poor Chicago, signing Nocioni and Hinrich to long term deals only to find out that both of them kinda suck.

[TwinFlowers]

from the above link . . .

The deal officially cannot be signed before July 11. Financial terms were not available, but the Chicago Tribune reported it was for approximately $38 million. Nocioni was a restricted free agent who had drawn the attention of the Memphis Grizzlies.

MEM wanted noch for a long time. it was no secret. they asked for him from the get go. CHI signing him effectively killed any deal between the team unless CHI suddenly wanted to deal deng . . . which c'mon, pax loves deng.

[TwinFlowers]

i actually like noccioni a lot. an odom for noch deal this summer would be fine with me.

[conqueso]

i actually like noccioni a lot. an odom for noch deal this summer would be fine with me.

Gasol for Balkman, Malik Rose, Fred Jones, NYs trade exception and cash. Tons of salary cap relief, a minor prospect in Balkman. This trade is about as good as the Lakers trade, and don't tell me that Isiah wouldn't do it, because since having three scoring big men on your team is such a bad idea that Isiah would be more likely to do it.

[conqueso]

Gasol for Arroyo, Garrity, Dooling, picks and cash. Move Gasol to the four and make him the focal point of the offense with a twin towers attack similar to Duncan and Robinson circa '00. This would probably be the best defensive front court ever. The Magic would overnight become the favorites in the East. Dwight Howard wouldn't have to worry about scoring (which is fine, because he's not a very good scorer). Memphis would get three expiring contracts and Gasol's long-term deal off the books, plus some picks (although no shitty rookie prospects).

[conqueso]

Gasol for Kurt Thomas, Robert Swift, Johan Petro, picks and cash. Seattle's front line becomes nasty, and Memphis gets three bigs, one who is so old he's about to die (and whose contract is up after this season), and two others who have upside. Memphis gets big time cap relief.

[TwinFlowers]

if the knicks would add their pick, that's a good deal for MEM. not sure if they would . . . but with zeke who knows? and i don't think a trade X can be used that way either . . . they can't be combined for sure, but let's say it works.

but w/o the pick there isn't anything there other than the same cap relief the lakers gave them. javaris and marc gasol are both better prospects that balkman. no contest really.

and again with ORL, the ending K adds up but what's left? MEM gets nothing . . . which is better than critt and marc gasol? and when dooling garrity, and arroyo are gone next year, how do they fill the roster space? they have to have someone, who will certainly cost more than critt.

those deals make sense for NY i guess if they figure out what to do with that crowded front court and for ORL i guess . . . but i don't see where this makes MORE sense for the grizz than what they got from LA.

do you even see a huge difference here? or even a significant difference?

[TwinFlowers]

and again, i've said if MEM could get an unprotected lotto pick (either from MIA or the knicks) that was the deal to do.

but i've seen nothing that indicates there were any such offers made.

SEA isn't looking to add salary. theyr'e rebuilding, and not interested in players like pau. dealing for pau goes against everything they did this past summer.

petro and swift? have you seen them?

[ChumpDumper]

Trade exceptions can't be combined with players in a trade, so that Knicks deal is out.

Seattle is in complete cheapskate mode until they move.

Orlando? I haven't read that they were shopping any players, and carrying three max salaries is a lot for that market

It's fun to play armchair GM, but it takes a whole lot to make such trades come together. No doubt Wallace took the cost saving deal when got a decent one.

[TwinFlowers]

and i get it . . . you can use the realgm trade checker . . .

you can get all kinds of trades to match up dollars and cents wise. but that doesn't mean anything. unless the trade matches the direction both teams are heading and their realistic salary structure, it's not going to happen.

that's like 90% of those trades you've proposed.

SEA, MIN, probably CHI, DEN . . . those teams and a ton more aren't adding significant salary . . . NYK, MIA . . . those teams probably aren't dealing away any picks . . . half of your deals don't have anything but K relief period coming back to MEM.

[conqueso]

and again, i've said if MEM could get an unprotected lotto pick (either from MIA or the knicks) that was the deal to do.

but i've seen nothing that indicates there were any such offers made.

SEA isn't looking to add salary. theyr'e rebuilding, and not interested in players like pau. dealing for pau goes against everything they did this past summer.

petro and swift? have you seen them?

I threw the NY trade out there as a joke, no one would ever be that stupid, not even Isiah. They already have a post player on the bench who should be a starter, I don't think they could swing two.

As for Seattle, "rebuilding" means that you are shedding contracts in hopes of signing a big time free agent, or, in the very long term, signing your franchise player draftees to high dollar extensions of their rookie contracts. Gasol's contract runs through '11, at which point they're still paying Durant only $6 mil. You can't honestly say that Gasol wouldn't fit in with Seattle's game plan since he's a dependable scorer and a great defender. He would give PJ Carlesimo exactly what he wants and something he is very familiar coaching. The big man prospects they give up (especially Swift) are at least as good as Crittenton and Marc Gasol.

[conqueso]

and i get it . . . you can use the realgm trade checker . . .

you can get all kinds of trades to match up dollars and cents wise. but that doesn't mean anything. unless the trade matches the direction both teams are heading and their realistic salary structure, it's not going to happen.

that's like 90% of those trades you've proposed.

SEA, MIN, probably CHI, DEN . . . those teams and a ton more aren't adding significant salary . . . NYK, MIA . . . those teams probably aren't dealing away any picks . . . half of your deals don't have anything but K relief period coming back to MEM.

Why is that a problem? That's the only thing coming back to Memphis in the Lakers deal.

[TwinFlowers]

Trade exceptions can't be combined with players in a trade . . .

thanks chump. that's what i thought.

[conqueso]

Trade exceptions can't be combined with players in a trade, so that Knicks deal is out.

Seattle is in complete cheapskate mode until they move.

Orlando? I haven't read that they were shopping any players, and carrying three max salaries is a lot for that market

It's fun to play armchair GM, but it takes a whole lot to make such trades come together. No doubt Wallace took the cost saving deal when got a decent one.

Apparently all it takes for trades to come together is some team throwing out an expiring contract, a low paid rookie, and the rights to a guy who isn't even in the NBA. It seems that if teams knew that was all it would take, there would be at least a few who would see taking on Gasol's contract as a worthwhile expenditure, especially teams who are on the cusp of contention and need one more piece to become a frontrunner. Not all teams would jump at the chance to get Gasol, but don't you think more than just one would?

Anyway, the point of this exercise wasn't to give a bunch of trades that would actually happen. The point was to demonstrate that there were other deals out there that were better for Memphis that weren't offered, weren't accepted, weren't pursued, whatever.

What we have to ask now is why would Memphis literally take a deal that is incredibly shitty for them if other better deals existed out there.

[TwinFlowers]

SEA is not taking on any salary, period. they're looking to build through the draft. pau runs counter to both of those goals. he adds salary and adds wins and is a proven non-fan magnet.

he does nothing that meshes with what that team wants to do.

Why is that a problem? That's the only thing coming back to Memphis in the Lakers deal.

well assuming i agree (which i don't) i guess that's the problem . . . where are all these superior deals at? frankly, i don't see them.

and wasn't that the issue? that MEM took a grossly inferior deal, for some mysterious reason that nobody can seem to articulate, to send gasol to the lakes?

i'm just asking what these deals are, is all.

you know, the really good ones. that MEM passed up.