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View Full Version : Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Raptors - Feb. 11



timvp
02-12-2008, 03:39 AM
In one of the most impressive victories of the season, the Spurs went into Toronto and came away with a 93-88 victory without Tony Parker and Brent Barry. It was a great win and a great effort. After suffering a disappointing loss against the Celtics yesterday, the Spurs bounced back with a superb performance tonight.

The Spurs scored the first nine points of the game and looked especially focused in doing so. Continuing their impressive play, the Spurs got up by as many as 18 points in the first half before heading to intermission with a 55-40 advantage.

The second half wasn’t nearly as pretty but the Spurs hit big shots and got key defensive stops when needed. I thought they ran out of gas a bit at the end, yet the team continued to claw and came away with another much needed victory.

As far as the Raptors, they have a pretty good team up there north of the border. I think they’re a bit gimmicky to truly be a playoff contender in the Eastern Conference, but they are a good regular season team. If the Raptors get hot shooting the ball, they can compete with anyone on a given night.

Overall, I was extremely pleased with the win. The execution was really good in the first half and the team’s scrappiness was on display in the second half. Standing at 5-3 on the Rodeo Road Trip with one game to go, I’d say that the trip is already a success – all thing considering.

-Tim Duncan bounced back from a disappointing effort against the Celtics with a much better outing tonight. Although his numbers were similar, Duncan had much more of an impact and his energy level was much higher. He finished with 22 points, 13 rebounds, two assists and two blocks, while hitting 11-of-19 shots from the field. The Raptors were throwing a bunch of defenders at him and Duncan responded by staying aggressive all night. A classic Tim Duncan performance.

-Speaking of classic performances, Manu Ginobili played one of his most dominating games I’ve ever seen him play. From the opening tip until the final buzzer, Ginobili was by far the best player on the court. He simply dominated in every aspect of the game. Ginobili ended the night with 34 points, 15 rebounds, six assists and two steals, while hitting 13-of-22 shots from the field including 6-of-12 from beyond the three-point line. Words really can’t describe how well Ginobili played. Truly, those jaw-dropping numbers didn’t even do his game justice. He was better than those gaudy stats. If you’re a Spurs fan and you ever get worried about the Spurs, just remember that this guy is on your team. Combine this Ginobili with the best bigman in the league and a healthy Parker, and I wouldn’t bet against the Spurs in any circumstance.

-Bruce Bowen played 28 minutes and scored five points on 2-for-5 shooting from the field. Bowen didn’t really have anyone to guard since the Raptors don’t have a go-to perimeter scoring threat, so it was pretty surprising he played as much as he did. Bowen wasn’t particularly notable in this contest, but to be fair the Raptors don’t have an offensive player that could test Bowen’s defense.

-I thought Jacque Vaughn played one of his better games of the season. He didn’t over dribble and he ran the show well at times. Vaughn also did a good job recognizing Ginobili was on fire and continually fed him the ball. On the night, Vaughn totaled seven points, five assists and one turnover on 3-for-8 shooting from the floor in 33 minutes. Vaughn’s defense wasn’t very effective but the energy was apparent from the tip off. If you start Vaughn, this is about as well as you could hope he’s going to play.

-Fabricio Oberto had strung together a number of solid games until his poor showing against the Celtics. Against the Raptors, Oberto was back to playing well. In 30 minutes, Oberto finished with six points, seven rebounds and four assists. Early on, Oberto’s passing was destroying the defensive schemes the Raptors were trying to use. Overall, Oberto showed as much energy in this game as he had all season.

-Michael Finley had his ups and downs but he was an important part of the win. When the Spurs needed to knock down some shots, Finley answered the bell. For the game, Finely finished with 12 points on 4-for-9 shooting from the field. Outside of Duncan and Ginobili, Finley was the only Spur to hit double figures. Compared to how Finley looked when he first joined the Spurs a couple years back, he looks amazingly comfortable on both sides of the court.

-Robert Horry didn’t take a shot in his 17 minutes of playing time. The good news is he dished out four assists. The bad news is every other part of his game looked slow. His defense was slow and he only had one rebound. On the whole, it wasn’t a horrible performance from Horry. The assists were good enough to count this as a decent night.

-Damon Stoudamire really struggled against the Raptors. His defense was extremely poor and his offense wasn’t much better. After getting off to a good start as a Spur, Stoudamire has come crashing back down to earth. In 15 minutes, Stoudamire had two points on 1-for-5 shooting from the field. Hopefully Stoudamire can find his rhythm sooner than later.

-Francisco Elson played 12 minutes and although he was bad, he wasn’t as bad as he’s been in recent games. This was actually a step forward for him. I like how he did a better job of letting the game come to him. He finished with four points on 1-for-4 shooting from the floor. Ugly game for Elson but he has to start somewhere if he wants to journey back to respectability.

-Matt Bonner played less than a minute. Why? After entering the game in the first half to an ovation from the crowd, Bonner was out of position on the very first possession and Pop yanked him out immediately. It was an alarmingly boneheaded play by Bonner. How are you going to come into the game and screw up within five seconds? If Bonner wants to regain his spot in the rotation or at least save himself from a permanent spot in the doghouse, he’s going to have to raise his basketball IQ to the point that it’s larger than his jersey number.

-Ime Udoka also played less than a minute. The problem for Udoka was the same problem that Bowen faced. The Raptors have perimeter shooters and not perimeter scorers. With no one to really defend, Udoka and Bowen weren’t needed.

-I thought Pop coached a relatively good game. Whatever he said to the squad before the game really hit home. The Spurs came out like they were pissed and looking to bury the Raptors.

Pop could have played Bowen a little less and Finley a little more because the Spurs didn’t need perimeter defense. And while Ginobili played great, 39 minutes just is too much on a back-to-back. By the end of the game, Ginobili was so exhausted he started to turn different shades of red and purple. As good of a win as this was, it’s not worth hurting Ginobili in the process.

Regarding Bonner, Pop made the right decision. The Spurs have had players on 10-day contracts make less mistakes than Bonner has made recently. Yanking Bonner and driving in the point that Bonner needs to play smarter to earn minutes was the right move.

The bottomline is this was a very nice win. The team played hard and with a purpose. Next up is the Cavaliers on Wednesday. A win in Cleveland would give the Spurs a 6-3 record on the Rodeo Road Trip and would officially make the trip a smashing success considering how the trip started and the obstacles the Spurs have had to overcome.

sprrs
02-12-2008, 03:53 AM
Nice analysis. We now know that anything other than 20-29 points for Manu = win.

Admidave50
02-12-2008, 04:09 AM
good job my friend, always expecting to read your game thoughts after each game!

Mr. Body
02-12-2008, 04:23 AM
Giving Bonner that contract was stupid.

smeagol
02-12-2008, 05:11 AM
They showed this game in Argie Direct TV.

Nice to see Manu on fire again.

Manu-of-steel
02-12-2008, 05:21 AM
Thanx timvp for this nice game summary. It's as if im viewing the action on the court everytime i read your game thoughts. Thank you spurs for making my day brighter with this win. This rodeo road trip, hopefully, will reignite that desire to be on top of the game again for the spurs.

SouthernFried
02-12-2008, 06:27 AM
Good analysis Tim.

I thought Elson was really terrible tho. He actually scares me. I've seen him slam into so many Spurs players I think he's gonna hurt one of our guys one of these days. He gets out of position, then overcompensates trying to get back into the play...usually jumping or running into one of the Spurs who has rotated to help. He continually has to overcompensate because of poor positioning. One of those out of control freight trains you have to continuously avoid trying not to get hurt. I seriously don't like this guy.

Wasn't too impressed with Horry either, guys blew by him like he was a statue...he actually looks like he's hurting a little.

Ginobili sure makes coaching easier, eh? ;)

WalterBenitez
02-12-2008, 06:32 AM
Great recap as usual

wildchild
02-12-2008, 06:54 AM
They showed this game in Argie Direct TV.

Nice to see Manu on fire again.


Delfino vs Manu

Hopefully you guys pull this one out.

What;s the RRT record as of now, and how many games are left in it?

How about that ^? What's your argie's opinion? I don't deeply familiar with Delfino and his play but I think the guy have seen better games.

Manu with an incredible game. It just goes to show that I'm right. He's one of the most amazing players in the NBA. :clap

more about argies, IMO the Oberto's defense over Bosh was really good. Bosh finished with only 11 points and 7 rebounds in 38 minutes. Fab did a smart job, didn't he?.

Supreme_Being
02-12-2008, 07:09 AM
Thanks, timvp.

Deimosfobos
02-12-2008, 07:18 AM
5-2 without Parker is great, ending with 6-2 without him would be pretty amazing imo.

Quasar
02-12-2008, 07:25 AM
In one of the most impressive victories of the season, the Spurs went into Toronto and came away with a 93-88 victory without Tony Parker and Brent Barry.

Why is this impressive? Isn't this more like a routine win that was more difficult than it should have been, similarly to the recent win over the Knicks?

I don't follow Toronto closely, but I'm under the impression they've regressed this year and haven't been playing particularly well lately, except for a surprising win over Boston in late January. They're playing 0.5 ball lately:
Date Opponent Result
Sat 19 @ Philadelphia L 95-99
Wed 23 @ Boston W 114-112 <- Surprising win
Fri 25 vs Milwaukee W 106-75
Tue 29 @ Washington L 104-108
Wed 30 vs Washington W 122-83
Fri 01 vs LA Lakers L 101-121 <- Crushed by the Lakers
Mon 04 @ Miami W 114-82
Fri 08 vs LA Clippers L 98-102 <- Clippers ain't a good team this year
Sun 10 @ Minnesota W 105-82
Mon 11 vs San Antonio L 88-93

Edit: My hero Manu was great though :) Amazing performance from an amazing player! To me, he's the player with the most game-changing + clutch ability since Jordan.

spursjustice
02-12-2008, 07:35 AM
Nice recap... the win against the Raptors was impressive; considering it was the 2nd game of a back to back. I couldn't follow the game because I was in a training session, but reading Manu's stat line was sweet. His competitive drive is awesome, and as hard as it is to measure it, I'd say he's up there with Kobe. I am just glad he's a Spur.

remingtonbo2001
02-12-2008, 07:43 AM
If you’re a Spurs fan and you ever get worried about the Spurs, just remember that this guy is on your team. Combine this Ginobili with the best bigman in the league and a healthy Parker, and I wouldn’t bet against the Spurs in any circumstance.

I've been trying to say this all year.

Maybe if it is coming from the great timvp, they will listen.

....Maybe not....

Anyways, great recap!

ploto
02-12-2008, 08:05 AM
Nice recap... the win against the Raptors was impressive; considering it was the 2nd game of a back to back.
Just to let you know, the Raptors played the night before. Unlike the Spurs who played during the day and got into Toronto at a decent time, the Raptors arrived much, much later.

I did find it interesting that a win over Toronto could be considered the most impressive win of any season for the Spurs. I guess the Raptors have come a long way in a year and a half.

Timvp, I know this killed you to write:

As far as the Raptors, they have a pretty good team up there north of the border.


If you’re a Spurs fan and you ever get worried about the Spurs, just remember that this guy is on your team. Combine this Ginobili with the best bigman in the league and a healthy Parker, and I wouldn’t bet against the Spurs in any circumstance.
I am not saying this to fan the fire but with Tony in the game, I do not think there is much opportunity to see this Ginobili.

SAGambler
02-12-2008, 09:09 AM
I thought they ran out of gas a bit at the end, yet the team continued to claw and came away with another much needed victory.

Good reason to run out of gas. While this is shown officially to be a B2B and 3 games in 4 days, it is actually 3 games in 3 1/8 days or 2 1/2 hours shy of being a B2B2B. No wonder everyone was out of gas by the 4th quarter.

But it was a good win. Now sitting at 5-3 (I predicted 5-4) on the road trip, a win in Cleveland Wednesday would indeed make this a smashing success. Just hope the guys aren't too anxious to bring it to an end and get back home, that they don't play their best against Cleveland.

A win Wed night, and getting Tony back (hopefully) next week, should send the Spurs on their way to a great season finish.

smeagol
02-12-2008, 09:17 AM
I am not saying this to fan the fire but with Tony in the game, I do not think there is much opportunity to see this Ginobili.

So true :rolleyes

When Tony is in the game, Manu automatically becomes a 10 / 3 / 2 guy :bang

101A
02-12-2008, 09:19 AM
Just to let you know, the Raptors played the night before. Unlike the Spurs who played during the day and got into Toronto at a decent time, the Raptors arrived much, much later.

I did find it interesting that a win over Toronto could be considered the most impressive win of any season for the Spurs. I guess the Raptors have come a long way in a year and a half.

Timvp, I know this killed you to write:



I am not saying this to fan the fire but with Tony in the game, I do not think there is much opportunity to see this Ginobili.Manu comes off the bench, about the time the other team is starting to figure out TP. That's kind of the point.

The Truth #6
02-12-2008, 09:21 AM
I noticed that Ime made a mistake in his one play in the game - a crucial late play - when he let his man get around a pick and get an open shot. I can see why Pop was made at Ime. It was actually kind of funny. Ime is holding the ball while the clock is running out, the Spurs are about to win the game, and Pop is yelling at him for screwing up.

As for Bonner, I wasn't paying attention to what he did on his one play. I saw him guarding Bosh in a post up and fouled him. What was his mistake? Did anyone see it clearly?

SenorSpur
02-12-2008, 09:32 AM
I'm starting to wonder why the resigned Bonner in the first place.

MaNuMaNiAc
02-12-2008, 09:38 AM
So true :rolleyes

When Tony is in the game, Manu automatically becomes a 10 / 3 / 2 guy :bangCorrect me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember two 37 pt performances from Manu with Tony in the lineup. The thing is that with Tony in the lineup, Manu DOESN'T have to be THIS Manu for us to win. This is a good thing. Having to watch Manu bail us out by playing 40 minutes a night is not.

tp2021
02-12-2008, 09:54 AM
I remember saying to myself, this is the first win in a while that i can actually be proud of. they went out there and actually performed.

SenorSpur
02-12-2008, 09:55 AM
Good analysis Tim.

I thought Elson was really terrible tho. He actually scares me. I've seen him slam into so many Spurs players I think he's gonna hurt one of our guys one of these days. He gets out of position, then overcompensates trying to get back into the play...usually jumping or running into one of the Spurs who has rotated to help. He continually has to overcompensate because of poor positioning. One of those out of control freight trains you have to continuously avoid trying not to get hurt. I seriously don't like this guy.

Wasn't too impressed with Horry either, guys blew by him like he was a statue...he actually looks like he's hurting a little.

Ginobili sure makes coaching easier, eh? ;)

I understand about Elson. However I will give him credit that no one on the team (outside of Parker) gets upcourt faster in transition. That's his game and he is severely hampered by Parker's absence. He can beat any big down the court, yet it seems that no one ever looks his way.

He is what he is. THe Spurs (and everyone else for that matter) should've known what they were getting when he came over from Denver. I still think he could be useful against certain teams, but it's clear his confidence is way down - along with his performance.

I don't understand all the Elson hate, though. It's not like Horry, Oberto and Bonner are tearing it up either.

MI21
02-12-2008, 10:01 AM
I am not saying this to fan the fire but with Tony in the game, I do not think there is much opportunity to see this Ginobili.

Yeah, I agree, Manu was poo in the 2005 Finals with Tony on court.



Come on, you know better than that.

MoSpur
02-12-2008, 10:32 AM
I'm sorry I missed the game yesterday.

team-work
02-12-2008, 11:17 AM
Matt Bonner played less than a minute. Why? After entering the game in the first half to an ovation from the crowd, Bonner was out of position on the very first possession and Pop yanked him out immediately. It was an alarmingly boneheaded play by Bonner. How are you going to come into the game and screw up within five seconds? If Bonner wants to regain his spot in the rotation or at least save himself from a permanent spot in the doghouse, he’s going to have to raise his basketball IQ to the point that it’s larger than his jersey number.

Yesterday I posted about Pop's tendency to pull players out of games because of defensive mistake. And it indeed happened again. I really reiterate that I'm not speaking for a particular player. I hope that there will be fewer & fewer instances like that, as every player plays defense well & Pop will not be irritated so much.

Overall, I trust in Pop's system & his coaching.

The Truth #6
02-12-2008, 11:34 AM
Yesterday I posted about Pop's tendency to pull players out of games because of defensive mistake. And it indeed happened again. I really reiterate that I'm not speaking for a particular player. I hope that there will be fewer & fewer instances like that, as every player plays defense well & Pop will not be irritated so much.


I'm curious for specifics of what happened. I noticed Bonner fouled Bosh posting up about ten feet from the basket. What was the mistake other than the foul?

Solid D
02-12-2008, 01:27 PM
I'm curious for specifics of what happened. I noticed Bonner fouled Bosh posting up about ten feet from the basket. What was the mistake other than the foul?

I don't think Bonner was pulled for that reason. I think he was pulled because of what he did wrong on the side out-of-bounds play that was set up during the time-out. The play appeared to be called for Tim in the lane. Toronto had been collapsing and doubling the entry to Tim, so Bonner was supposed to lift...not bring his man to the middle. Matt set a screen for Vaughn but he set it real low, into the middle, and Bosh was right there to steal the entry to Tim. Pop stomped, fumed and pulled Matt.

Solid D
02-12-2008, 02:02 PM
I will just add to timvp's game thoughts that the combination of Stoudamire and Horry was really exploited by Toronto in the 2nd half. Calderon easily broke free from Damon on high and side screen/rolls and Robert just can't move his feet well any more. It's pretty sad when old-age shows but it happens to everyone eventually. When Vaughn was in there on Calderon, at least Jacque wasn't soft and he tried to play over or through the screens. Damon was soft and tentative. Delfino exploited Robert a bit on switches also. The screen/roll strategy really helped Toronto get back in the game.

For you Rasho bashers, he really wasn't bad...in fact, he helped Toronto in the 4th quarter. He scored some timely baskets, he screened very well, and his post defense on Tim allowed Toronto to change it's defensive strategy by not doubling on Tim. Rasho played Tim straight-up, with no help for the last 8 minutes of the game. He only lost Tim once, on a shot from the top when Rasho tried to help on Oberto's cut to the basket..

Offensively, the Spurs moved the ball well and shot well except in the 3rd period. The assists were balanced among several players including several nice assists from Oberto and Horry. Vaughn was very solid at both ends. I cannot say the same for Damon but he needs to become a true Spur first. He's caught between what used to be and what he needs to be.

duncan228
02-12-2008, 02:15 PM
Solid D, it's always nice to have your thoughts.
And it was great to have you in the game blog last night.
I haven't seen you around very much lately, it's good to have you back. :toast

The Truth #6
02-12-2008, 04:26 PM
I don't think Bonner was pulled for that reason. I think he was pulled because of what he did wrong on the side out-of-bounds play that was set up during the time-out. The play appeared to be called for Tim in the lane. Toronto had been collapsing and doubling the entry to Tim, so Bonner was supposed to lift...not bring his man to the middle. Matt set a screen for Vaughn but he set it real low, into the middle, and Bosh was right there to steal the entry to Tim. Pop stomped, fumed and pulled Matt.


I think I was taking a bite of pizza when that happened. Thanks for clarifying.

timvp
02-12-2008, 04:30 PM
Timvp, I know this killed you to write:"Pretty good team" isn't exactly high praise. Plus they'll be out in the first round of the playoffs.


I am not saying this to fan the fire but with Tony in the game, I do not think there is much opportunity to see this Ginobili.Nice attempt at a :stirpot:

But everyone saw the 2005 playoffs. Not to mention the rest of the games this season that Parker has been out.

timvp
02-12-2008, 04:33 PM
I don't think Bonner was pulled for that reason. I think he was pulled because of what he did wrong on the side out-of-bounds play that was set up during the time-out. The play appeared to be called for Tim in the lane. Toronto had been collapsing and doubling the entry to Tim, so Bonner was supposed to lift...not bring his man to the middle. Matt set a screen for Vaughn but he set it real low, into the middle, and Bosh was right there to steal the entry to Tim. Pop stomped, fumed and pulled Matt.Exactly. I don't think Bonner was supposed to be anywhere near that action. Him coming over to set a flair screen for Vaughn was classic. Although Pop didn't see the humor . . .

The bad thing is it was a play called directly out of a timeout. Bonner went into the game and messed it up literally within five seconds of being on the court. It was bad timing, to say the least, because Bonner could have gotten good first half run for the first time in a long time.

Solid D
02-12-2008, 06:47 PM
I'm not sure if Bonner was "in" the huddle...even if he was in the huddle...if you know what I mean and I think you do.

ploto
02-12-2008, 06:56 PM
"Pretty good team" isn't exactly high praise. Plus they'll be out in the first round of the playoffs.
I think the second. Baby steps...

They are really trying to find a SF- one who can deal with Pierce and Lebron- but then again, who isn't.

ploto
02-12-2008, 06:57 PM
The bad thing is it was a play called directly out of a timeout. Bonner went into the game and messed it up literally within five seconds of being on the court.
I still remember a game where Nazr did that, as well. Pop got so mad!!!

ploto
02-12-2008, 07:00 PM
But everyone saw the 2005 playoffs.

I would counter that Tony's role was not as big then. Manu used to have the ball in his hands more then than he does now. He used to be given the opportunity to do what he did last night more often a couple of years ago. He can do it- but will he actually be in a position to do it?

td4mvp21
02-12-2008, 10:08 PM
Just to let you know, the Raptors played the night before. Unlike the Spurs who played during the day and got into Toronto at a decent time, the Raptors arrived much, much later.
Cool. Aren't we a lot older than the Raptors? Ok thanks.


I did find it interesting that a win over Toronto could be considered the most impressive win of any season for the Spurs. I guess the Raptors have come a long way in a year and a half.

It was impressive because the Spurs executed properly and played good defense. It's not because the Raptors are some great team. They are decent, though.



I am not saying this to fan the fire but with Tony in the game, I do not think there is much opportunity to see this Ginobili.

Yes you are.

LaMarcus Bryant
02-12-2008, 10:14 PM
Ginobili played 39 minutes therefore Lamarcus declares this victory a loss.

bigfundamental21
02-12-2008, 10:23 PM
As always, thanks for the thoughts, timvp.

It was a good win. Manu played out of his mind and expended a lot of energy. I hope he will still have some left in the tank for Cleveland. Since Bowen and Udoka didn't get any challenge in this game defensively, they should be ready for Lebron.

I fully expect a victory tomorrow night. And given that we have played this trip without Parker, I am proud of the effort that we have given.

RuffnReadyOzStyle
02-13-2008, 07:00 AM
Manu, Manu, Manu, how can so many hate on you? Sweet, vintage Manu game, although of the rare variety when he kills the other team almost exclusively with the J and not the drive. Same for Tim - very solid, a force on D, killing people in the post on O despite being hacked on continually as usual. And he used his left 2 or 3 times! That always makes me happy. :)

Fab was as good as Fran and Rob were bad. As regards Rob, this is what we saw in January - he looked a step slow out there, especially on D. He gave up 4 buckets on late rotations, and shouldn't have been playing the 4th Q. But we can't expect him to play well every game, and that's only 1 bad game out of the last 4, so the overall trend is good.

Not much from the point guards tonight, or Bowen/Udoka for reasons noted.

Loved the ball movement at times, hated the Manu-MM-Fin-Fran-Rob lineup Pop trotted out twice.

Overall, a good win, and this team is GROWING. :tu

Bring on the Cavs. :D

PS Calderon made a new fan tonight - that guy can ball! Why the hell did they trade for TJ Ford? One of those guys has to move, or they have to play on the court at the same time, because they're both too good to only play 24 minutes each.

Also, Rasho played a very good 4th quarter defensively, and hit a baseline jumper and cutting layup. The Slo Girls will be happy tonight! :) Hell, I wouldn't mind him back here to throw at Shaq...