Playoff Matchups

[Ghost Writer]

If the Spurs stand pat and can't get frontcourt help, can you help me figure out how we'll match up with:

Phoenix*
C - S. O'Neal
PF - A. Stoudamire

Los Angeles**
C - Bynum
PF - P. Gasol

:depressed

Other players can't be left unchecked if you are thinking double teams:
* S. Nash, R. Bell, G. Hill
** K. Bryant, L. Odom, D. Fisher

Now do you understand why Pop is p1ssed about the Gasol trade and why Kerr signed off on Shaq to Phoenix?


Question.

[E20]

Pop is not pissed off about the Shaq trade. Like most players, coaches, and GM's they are all thinking WTF.

[stretch]

Pop is not pissed off about the Shaq trade. Like most players, coaches, and GM's they are all thinking WTF.
I don't think he meant that Pop was pissed about Kerr. I think he meant that Pop was pissed about Gasol because of that matchup problem it creates due to one of the biggest rapings in trade history, and that Kerr got Shaq for the matchup problem as well.

[E20]

Yeah after reading it again he meant what you said.

Bringing in Shaq to help with matchup problems is a desperate plea, which I think will not payoff. :td But I am in the minority.

[Ghost Writer]

Thanks guys for restating what I wrote.

Pop knows we can't match up with the Lakers' frontcourt and I never said Pop is p1ssed about the Shaq deal.

Read!

[E20]

As good as the Lakers seem I am not too worried about them. If we do run into them in the PO's I'm confident that with a 100% health Big 3 we would get them in 6 games. Pau needs to just be bullied up so he will be more hestitant. Hope Bowen can work his Magic on Kobe. Tim Duncan will either have to guard Bynum or Gasol when on the court so his D on one of those should be effective. I'm not worried about Phoneix at all.

[E20]

What was Pau's numbers agains the Spurs in 2004 PO's.

Lakers will be pretty good for the next several seasons, but you can't just say they will automatically rise to the 'ship in this current season. Spurs experience/chemistry will prevail. Oh yeah and we have Tim Duncan.

[DazedAndConfused]

Pau's numbers are only going to get better as he is not the #1 option on the Lakers as he was with Memphis. He's only 5 games in and he's already put up:

24/12 against NJN
30/9 against ORL
26/6/6 against CHA

Well above his 19/9 average.

[SenorSpur]

If it's another big that we need, perhaps the Spurs should've retained Melvin Ely.

Just wanted to submit a "wild-ass" opinion. :lol

[ancestron]

Just gotta dig their boots in and go to work. Thats all.

[wildchild]

If it's another big that we need, perhaps the Spurs should've retained Melvin Ely.

Just wanted to submit a "wild-ass" opinion. :lol

:lol

[Ghost Writer]

Well, I'm worried.

Duncan can hold Shaq, but Amare will abuse Oberto/Elson/Horry. And then you got the rest of the Suns, who are pretty darn good.

The Lakers are even more nightmarish, because I still believe Kobe is the best player in the game and despite what people think, Bowen has never shut him down.

Duncan will draw Bynum, leaving Gasol to punish Oberto/Elson/Horry.

Finley and Fisher are a wash. Or you put Parker on Fish.

Then we're asking Ginobili or Finley to guard tall Odom?

Or does Pop put Bowen on Odom and Ginobili on Kobe?

Ether way, our frontcourt is overmatched and we give up a lot of size.

Thoughts?

[Deimosfobos]

Maybe we can get Howard for some chips? Ohh... wait, we are not the Lakers...

[wildchild]

Well, I'm worried.

Duncan can hold Shaq, but Amare will abuse Oberto/Elson/Horry. And then you got the rest of the Suns, who are pretty darn good.

The Lakers are even more nightmarish, because I still believe Kobe is the best player in the game and despite what people think, Bowen has never shut him down.

Duncan will draw Bynum, leaving Gasol to punish Oberto/Elson/Horry.

Finley and Fisher are a wash. Or you put Parker on Fish.

Then we're asking Ginobili or Finley to guard tall Odom?

Or does Pop put Bowen on Odom and Ginobili on Kobe?

Ether way, our frontcourt is overmatched and we give up a lot of size.

Thoughts?

Amare didn't abuse Oberto last game in Phoenix and didn't abuse in last playoffs. I think Oberto was good enough on Amare.
I like Fin over Odom and Bruce/Manu on Kobe.

[Ghost Writer]

Amare didn't abuse Oberto last game in Phoenix and didn't abuse in last playoffs. I think Oberto was good enough on Amare.
I like Fin over Odom and Bruce/Manu on Kobe.
Throw all that out the window, because the Spurs will have to honor Shaq in the post now, which will open up Amare's game.

[spurster]

It typically takes more than a season for star players to play well as a team. I would be worried more about next season rather than this season.

I would worry more about the Spurs defense rather than any particular team. So far it has been well below the standard of previous years.

[hater]

Duncan will guard all of them. Duncan is GOD

[ancestron]

I think Oberto can handle Gasol. I don't think Gasol will punish him. I think the matchups actually work out well because Duncan is a dominant enough force down low to nullify Bynum without the double team and allow the Spurs to stay at home.
The guard matchups with the Lakers are negligible.

As for Phoenix, Duncan can outsmart Shaq and Amare on offense. If they double--kick it out, perimeter defense hasn't exactly been one of Phoenix's strengths. If they play straight up--torture chamber. If the Spurs can dictate pace and keep the run and gun bottled up, this should turn out like it always does. Shaq being involved adds an interesting wrinkle, but everyone in the league knows how to handle the big aristotle by now. I seriously see these contests coming down to more of a matter of effort, and less of strategy.

[fyatuk]

Throw all that out the window, because the Spurs will have to honor Shaq in the post now, which will open up Amare's game.

I really don't think it'll be that big of a problem. Shaq will really only be a problem if the game is played at the Spurs pace. The last 3 years with the Heat, in 3 games Shaq averaged about 20 pts and 5 rebounds, which while a significant contribution, is not nearly as terrifying as he used to be. His biggest contribution will be guarding Duncan, which will protect Stoudamire from picking up stupid fouls.

Shaq may keep Duncan from posting up too near the basket, but while Duncan has lost a step, Shaq has lost at least 2, so it'll still force double teams, and the Suns perimiter defense is much weaker without Marion, so driving to the basket should be easier, and there should be more open jumpers.

Duncan may end up having to guard Amare and leaving Oberto on Shaq (flipping Duncan to Shaq when the weaker/quicker big men come in). The big question is whether our bigs can stay out of foul trouble.

The biggest danger from Shaq on the Suns would be his rebounding, which has been nearly pathetic by his standards the last several years, and I doubt will improve with the Suns.

[remingtonbo2001]

Again, I will remind everyone that Gasol is having back problems at the age of 27

Would anyone mind telling me the progress of Larry Legend after he started having back problems?

How about D-Rob?

I'm not trying to hate on Gasol. He is a very good player. However, I'd be cautious with his minutes over the next couple of seasons.

[BonnerDynasty]

Foul Trouble.

[ancestron]

These playoffs are gonna be good...

[E20]

The last PO's series agains the Suns Amare has been averaging like 35 and 15 and Nash was a monster as well, they can't play any better with or without Snaq.

[Fattmac78]

To be real, Im upset with Pop for complaining about it. If someone wants to trade for the future of their team then they should. His punka$$ know he needs to trade but they weak up tight a$$es just dont want to pull the trigga. That was a bitch move to me. That sniching like a hoe because you didnt get him! I wish I could call his punk pussy a$$ and tell him its your move hoe! Study long study wrong as we say in my hood! :fro

[duncan228]

None of this worries me.

Playoffs are about matchups but they're also about adjustments.
And no one is better than Pop at adjusting things during a series.

There are no back-to-backs, our age won't be an issue.

We are so experienced at what it takes to be the last team standing.
Our chemistry is proven.

And as E20 pointed out, we have Duncan. Without a doubt he is the best big man in the game. As long as he's healthy, (as well as Parker and Manu), I like our chances against any team in a 7 game series.

[FromWayDowntown]

Maybe the Spurs should just give up and concede the season now.

[Mister Sinister]

None of this worries me.

Playoffs are about matchups but they're also about adjustments.
And no one is better than Pop at adjusting things during a series.

There are no back-to-backs, our age won't be an issue.

We are so experienced at what it takes to be the last team standing.
Our chemistry is proven.

And as E20 pointed out, we have Duncan. Without a doubt he is the best big man in the game. As long as he's healthy, (as well as Parker and Manu), I like our chances against any team in a 7 game series.
:toast

[Holt's Cat]

Oh, the juggernauts on paper that the NBA has seen.

[Killakobe81]

BE AFRAID BE VERY AFRIAD ... KOBE/BYNUM/GASOL

They're BACK!!! The Lakeshow!!!

Spurs better win as much as they can now that window is closing ...almost as fast as Manu's hair is thinning!!!

[Warlord23]

I'm more worried about the Lakers than the Suns.

The Suns haven't really become a defensive powerhouse by swapping Marion for Shaq. If they think Shaq can guard Duncan one-on-one, they must have some good weed in the desert. Shaq was fouling out against weak ECF teams all year long despite having Haslem and Zo alongside. He is slow as molasses and will get killed by the pick-n-roll. Marion could guard TP and shield Nash; now Nash will have to try and stop Parker. Sure, Duncan can't bully Amare and draw the automatic double-team, but now we have more options to exploit the Phx defense.

On the other end, Nash/Amare the pick-n-roll was killing us regardless of who was on Amare. That won't change. I'd rather they toss the ball into Shaq than run the pick-n-roll. Shaq can't finish like he used to and still sucks at the FT line.

The bigger problem is LA. They have all the tools now, and multiple weapons on offense. IMO they have the best offense in the league. The good thing is that they still don't play much defense. 3 members of their starting lineup: Gasol, Odom and Fisher are poor defenders. If our offense improves to last year's level (I fervently hope it will although it doesn't look like it now) we should have our way with them.

On the other end of the court, the key is whether we can play Kobe one-on-one. With Bowen and Udoka we should be able to do that. If we play Kobe straight up, we negate easy points for Bynum. I'd also play Gasol straight up with Duncan or Horry. Regarding Odom, we can easily get away with Finley or Manu on him; the dude is 6'10" but reluctant to play in the post consistently. The other big worry is their bench, Farmar is a sharpshooter and Turiaf is an energy guy.

Our best lineup against the LA starting 5 is Duncan/Horry/Manu/Udoka/Parker. We can match up defensively, and have enough punch on the offensive end. the key is whether Horry and Udoka can produce consistently on offense.

[FromWayDowntown]

Oh, the juggernauts on paper that the NBA has seen.

Certainly there are formidable teams in the West and it might be that the Spurs will be unable to defeat them in a playoff series. My question is: what do you do about it? Certainly Ghost Writer is clamoring for a trade -- and that would seem to be the point of this thread.

But what trade can the Spurs credibly make without divesting themselves of a star-level player to match frontline talent (to the extent that there is a disparity at all)?

And then show me that the Spurs absolutely aren't working on trying to make a deal.

[rascal]

It typically takes more than a season for star players to play well as a team. I would be worried more about next season rather than this season.

I would worry more about the Spurs defense rather than any particular team. So far it has been well below the standard of previous years.

Not true. The Lakers are already looking better with Gasol and they have enough time to get Bynum back.

[Holt's Cat]

Certainly there are formidable teams in the West and it might be that the Spurs will be unable to defeat them in a playoff series. My question is: what do you do about it? Certainly Ghost Writer is clamoring for a trade -- and that would seem to be the point of this thread.

But what trade can the Spurs credibly make without divesting themselves of a star-level player to match frontline talent (to the extent that there is a disparity at all)?


The teams that have taken out a Spurs team with Tim Duncan in the postseason since '99 have been with the Shaq of 4+ years ago or led by a former Spur with intimate knowledge of the Spurs' system and a 4 man capable of creating a major mismatch. Time will tell, but I don't see that on the Lakers or Suns this season.

In general I've wanted to see the Spurs improve their rebounding up front, but that predates these recent moves.

[FromWayDowntown]

The teams that have taken out a Spurs team with Tim Duncan in the postseason since '99 have been with the Shaq of 4+ years ago or led by a former Spur with intimate knowledge of the Spurs' system and a 4 man capable of creating a major mismatch. Time will tell, but I don't see that on the Lakers or Suns this season.

In general I've wanted to see the Spurs improve their rebounding up front, but that predates these recent moves.

Oh, I agree with you. I'm not a BAMA acolyte at all. I do think that the Spurs could improve their roster and their chances to succeed at playoff time, but I don't think it's going to take a major move -- a minor tweak to find a rebounder who defends would be enough, I think.

I just have the sense that this thread is a prelude to another diatribe about the Spurs' unwillingness to make flashy moves.

[Ghost Writer]

You guys are still basing your analysis on pre-trade game performances.

Now, the Suns and Lakers are sporting starting 5s where every player is a threat. The Spurs can't afford to double team. Oh, and we're giving up not only more talent, but a lot of height, too.

For those of you who are not worried about the matchups on paper, please take the starting 5s of the Suns and Lakers and then tell me who will guard each one from the Spurs.

I did that in my post, but maybe if you play the game of tic-tac-toe yourself, you will see that we'll be overmatched in at least two positions.

The only way that we can win is by experience playing team defense together.

Or a trade.

[Nashfan]

The last PO's series agains the Suns Amare has been averaging like 35 and 15 and Nash was a monster as well, they can't play any better with or without Snaq.

You are such a fool :lol

[The_Game]

I fail to see how the spurs can beat L.A without a trade. Lakers are simply too big inside and are a deeper more talented team. Kobe is still unguardable and Duncan will not have it easy vs two 7 footers inside.

a trade is needed.

[Holt's Cat]

You guys are still basing your analysis on pre-trade game performances.

Now, the Suns and Lakers are sporting starting 5s where every player is a threat. The Spurs can't afford to double team. Oh, and we're giving up not only more talent, but a lot of height, too.

For those of you who are not worried about the matchups on paper, please take the starting 5s of the Suns and Lakers and then tell me who will guard each one from the Spurs.

I did that in my post, but maybe if you play the game of tic-tac-toe yourself, you will see that we'll be overmatched in at least two positions.

The only way that we can win is by experience playing team defense together.

Or a trade.

You are basing your analysis on big splashy moves while the Spurs' machine keeps rolling on. 4 titles in 9 years, grasshopper. 4 titles after you said the Spurs would never win one without the...big splashy ESPN friendly trade. Go punch one out or order a double scotch.

[himat]

Yeah after reading it again he meant what you said.

Bringing in Shaq to help with matchup problems is a desperate plea, which I think will not payoff. :td But I am in the minority.

We have to wait and see. If the Suns keep their system in tact then yes you are absolutely right. If the Suns adjust around Shaq, then I can only see the Suns staying as a contender or improving to a contender that actually wins. Shaq and Tim Duncan have dominated the decade and it's no coincidence. Besides those two Wallace x2 is the only tandem to win a championship. A low post presence is a must and Amare is not that. He cannot create for himself especially since he is not as quick as the Amare before the knee injury. Phoenix does not have a chance without this trade.

[Ghost Writer]

Yawn.

Play the game of tic tac toe.

T. Duncan / S. O'Neal / A. Bynum
B. Bowen / S. Nash / K. Bryant
F. Oberto / A. Stoudamire / P. Gasol
T. Parker / R. Bell / D. Fisher
M. Finley / B. Diaw / V. Radmonovic
E. Ginobili / G. Hill / L. Odom

I know that the playoffs are more than just matchups, but it looks like the Spurs are giving up a lot of height and talent, player for player.

Upon further review, outside of the Oberto assignments, it's not terrible. The Spurs can hold their own. But Oberto is simply overmatched. If the Suns go through Amare and the Lakers go through Gasol, we're going to have a tough time.

Unless we can milk one single competitive advantage and the sum our our team defense is better than their individual parts, we're doomed.

[Holt's Cat]

What team can hold the Spurs back on offense?


Unless we can milk one single competitive advantage

The Spurs have 3. They've done it before. Life is still worth living.



and the sum our our team defense is better than their individual parts, we're doomed.

One would think 3 titles in the last 5 years would at least put a silver lining on that cloud.

[Ghost Writer]

What team can hold the Spurs back on offense?



The Spurs have 3. They've done it before. Life is still worth living.




One would think 3 titles in the last 5 years would at least put a silver lining on that cloud.
Are you on crack?

Our offense is dump in in to Duncan or pass it to Ginobili and pray for the best these days.

We no longer have a competitive advantage other than Duncan.

Look at the matchups that I posted previously for krissakes.

[Weezer]

Phx is nothing to worry about. I actually believe that the Suns got worse with Shaq...

[BonnerDynasty]

The only way that we can win is by experience playing team defense together.



:clap

[Ghost Writer]

Phx is nothing to worry about. I actually believe that the Suns got worse with Shaq...
Kill yourself.

Marion only hurt us in the playoffs when A. Stoudamire was not playing.

Now the Suns can play in the halfcourt with Shaq.

The playoffs are different, pal.

No one is looking at the matchups and seeing how we have the potential to get exposed, especially at the PF spot.

[Holt's Cat]

Are you on crack?

No, your drug of choice does not interest me.





Our offense is dump in in to Duncan or pass it to Ginobili and pray for the best these days.


ROFL. Do you even understand that the Spurs have been running a motion offense that's led to 3 titles over the last 5 years?




We no longer have a competitive advantage other than Duncan.


They don't?






Look at the matchups that I posted previously for krissakes.

Why? They're just names. Idiots believe the hype.

[jag]

You forgot that the ZEN Master OWNS popabitch!!!!

popabitch lol.....and i think you're forgetting every embarrassing season since 03.

[Weezer]

Kill yourself.

Marion only hurt us in the playoffs when A. Stoudamire was not playing.

Now the Suns can play in the halfcourt with Shaq.

The playoffs are different, pal.

No one is looking at the matchups and seeing how we have the potential to get exposed, especially at the PF spot.


Shaq is nowhere near the physical capability he once was...sure he does clog the lane and he does have size, but the suns were not constucted to play in the halfcourt.

[Ghost Writer]

Holt's Cat, well, gee, you sure put me in my place.

We play in a motion offense and those are just names. Phew. What was I worried about?

Come with a take, please.

T. Duncan / S. O'Neal / A. Bynum
B. Bowen / S. Nash / K. Bryant
F. Oberto / A. Stoudamire / P. Gasol
T. Parker / R. Bell / D. Fisher
M. Finley / B. Diaw / V. Radmonovic
E. Ginobili / G. Hill / L. Odom

Where do you see the Spurs scoring easily or getting stops?

[Holt's Cat]

Well, we can start with the fact that the game is not 6 on 6.

Come with a take that actually shows some understanding of the game.

[manubili]

I'm afraid of the convenience of final between Lakers and Celtics, just like in the old days. I'm not saying is a plot, but it would be a big improvement for the league popularity, ratings, merch, and a long etc. We'll see in the spring.

:rolleyes

[Ghost Writer]

Oooooh. Man, you are smart.

So where do you see the Spurs exposing the Suns and Lakers?

How do you see the Spurs stopping their new low-post players?

Kryptonite is not allowed.

This ought to be good.

[fyatuk]

Yawn.

Play the game of tic tac toe.

T. Duncan / S. O'Neal / A. Bynum
B. Bowen / S. Nash / K. Bryant
F. Oberto / A. Stoudamire / P. Gasol
T. Parker / R. Bell / D. Fisher
M. Finley / B. Diaw / V. Radmonovic
E. Ginobili / G. Hill / L. Odom



While it's certainly true that the Spurs majorly lose the Oberto matchup there, Tim has the same advantage over Bynum, and Parker over Bell. Finley, if he's playing well is better than Diaw and Radmonovic, and if Manu plays smart (he'll cost the Spurs at least one game in the playoffs with a stupid play and win 3 for an amazing play), he's better than Hill and Odom. Nash and Bruce are a wash (one's great offensively and sucks on D the other is great D but sucks on O), and Kobe's unmatchable.

For the Suns it's STILL Amare and Nash, with a little better 3-4 options with Hill and Shaq at the expense of their best 1 on 1 defender.

The Lakers are certainly scarier since it's no longer just Kobe and whichever random guy might step up.

And with the Suns, you HAVE to base it on pre-trade performance because we do not yet have a sample of post-trade performance with the expected lineup.

[Holt's Cat]

Who exactly is guarding Parker and Manu one on one? Does Casper even recognize how good two of his favorite team's Big 3 are offensively? What a chump.

[Xylus]

Nash and Bruce are a wash
Seriously?

[Warlord23]

IMO a healthy Parker being defended by Derek Fisher or Steve Nash is still the biggest adantage either way.

Phil Jackson in 2004 clogged the lane and dared the Spurs's shooters to beat him. Led by Hedo Turkoglu's inept shooting, the Spurs failed that year. Since then the Spurs have striven to put quality 3 point shooters around our big 3. This year we have Manu, Barry, Finley, Horry, Bowen, Udoka, Stoudamire and Bonner. We are shooting 38% from the arc for the year. That is our big advantage over the competition: veteran shooters who can come up big in pressure games.

If we can get the D back up to championship quality, we have as good a chance as anyone.

[Ghost Writer]

Kobe and Hill guard Manu.

Farmar and Bell guard Parker.

Or they switch on our guards.

How about you answer my questions now?:

So where do you see the Spurs exposing the Suns and Lakers?

How do you see the Spurs stopping their new low-post players?

T. Duncan / S. O'Neal / A. Bynum
B. Bowen / S. Nash / K. Bryant
F. Oberto / A. Stoudamire / P. Gasol
T. Parker / R. Bell / D. Fisher
M. Finley / B. Diaw / V. Radmonovic
E. Ginobili / G. Hill / L. Odom

Where do you see the Spurs capitalizing?

Do you recognize that on paper, the Spurs are outmatched in more spots?

Tic Tac Doh!

[Holt's Cat]

So somehow the Spurs' All-Star caliber guards are stymied yet that problem doesn't exist for their opponents.

[Weezer]

So somehow the Spurs' All-Star caliber guards are stymied yet that problem doesn't exist for their opponents.


...I understand the kobe aspect (perennial 1st team all defense)....

[himat]

Phx is nothing to worry about. I actually believe that the Suns got worse with Shaq...

What you believe may not be fact though. Wait till you see them play before making stupid assumptions. So many Piston fans thought that the Celtics were too thin to compete even though they have arguably the best trio in the league. I think I was one of the fans who said that before seeing them play and it was a stupid assumption. All there players are playing impressive. Wait until you see them play in the playoffs. You can't tell how good a trade is with the Suns until you see them in the playoffs. Suns always do good in the regular season.

[FromWayDowntown]

FLASHY TRADE!!! NEED FLASHY TRADE (wait for it . . . . ) . . . . (not quite yet) . . . .
(almost there) . . . . NOW!!

[Warlord23]

Kobe and Hill guard Manu.

Farmar and Bell guard Parker.

Or they switch on our guards.

How about you answer my questions now?:

So where do you see the Spurs exposing the Suns and Lakers?

How do you see the Spurs stopping their new low-post players?

T. Duncan / S. O'Neal / A. Bynum
B. Bowen / S. Nash / K. Bryant
F. Oberto / A. Stoudamire / P. Gasol
T. Parker / R. Bell / D. Fisher
M. Finley / B. Diaw / V. Radmonovic
E. Ginobili / G. Hill / L. Odom

Where do you see the Spurs capitalizing?

Do you recognize that on paper, the Spurs are outmatched in more spots?

Tic Tac Doh!

Grant Hill guarding Manu = :hungry: The Suns have to choose between letting Manu go off on Hill v/s Parker going off on Nash. And I still don't think they can stop Duncan. Pick-n-roll with Duncan and Manu/Parker is the answer, that would expose Shaq's defense more than anything else. From Marion to Shaq, the Suns improve their rebounding while degrading an already porous D.

Kobe guarding Manu is great by me. Let him expend some energy on the defensive end. Farmar isn't stopping TP, and neither is Fisher. This is one of the reasons Barbosa averaged 21 PPG against LA in the playoffs last year. Their PGs don't have a chance vs Parker. They have to collapse and dare someone else to shoot.

[T Park]

...I understand the kobe aspect (perennial 1st team all defense)....

Yeah thats apparent when Ginobili drops 25 on the Lakers consistently.

If hes such a great defender, why is he always put on Bruce Bowen?

Why does Bruce Bowen always torch him for 20 as well?

[T Park]

Grant Hill guarding Manu

I hope D'Antoni is still this stupid.

Hill's ankle would snap like a dried twig if he attempted this.

[fyatuk]

Seriously?

Effectively. Nash's massive deficiencies on defense lower his overall impact on the game. Bruce can be a dominating defender, but the fact that he's effectively a junk heap on offense lessens his impact. Each is a key part of the team on their side of the ball and a huge liability on the other. Actually, Bruce is less of an offensive liability than Nash is a defensive one, and Nash's offensive contributions are better than Bruce's defensive. To me it just about balances out.

[Weezer]

Yeah thats apparent when Ginobili drops 25 on the Lakers consistently.

If hes such a great defender, why is he always put on Bruce Bowen?

Why does Bruce Bowen always torch him for 20 as well?


...this may have to do with fatigue...that and the fact that bowen slows Kobe to what....30-40?

[Ghost Writer]

They put Kobe on Bowen, so he doesn't expend any energy on the defensive end. That's how Kobe manages to get his against Bowen.

Some better posts lately in this thread.

Ginobili has the potential to go off against Odom or Hill.

Bell is a very good defender and can slow down Parker. Don't forget that the Suns and Lakers both boast 2 shotblockers now.

We have seen in the past that if you play superior defense, it doesn't matter if you only have one competitive advantage on offense. You can continue to go to Dunca, Parker or Ginobili - whoever can score the easiest - and hope you get stops on the other end.

The only thing that is unsettling now is that the Lakers and Suns have more competitive advantages on the offensive end.

it will take the Spurs best team defense to win.

[FromWayDowntown]

The thing about Bowen's defense of Kobe that is most significant has little to do with points and everything to do with shots. If Kobe gets 35 on 16 shots, he hasn't been defended well; if Kobe gets 35 on 32 shots, he's been defended extremely well. The closer Bowen gets to keeping Kobe's points per shot to somewhere between 1.0 and 1.3, the more valuable his defensive effort is.

In the last 6 matchups between the Spurs and Lakers, Bowen has accomplished that on 3 occasions, all Spurs wins -- the 3 times he hasn't done it, the Lakers have won:

12/10/06 -- 34 points, 25 shots; 1.36 pps (Lakers win)
1/17/07 -- 34 points, 19 shots; 1.79 pps (Lakers win)
1/28/07 -- 31 points, 25 shots; 1.24 pps (Spurs win)
11/13/07 -- 18 points, 19 shots; .95 pps (Spurs win)
12/13/07 -- 30 points, 24 shots; 1.25 pps (Lakers win)
1/23/08 -- 29 points, 27 shots; 1.07 pps (Spurs win)

If you take it out over a longer period of time, the trend continues. Bowen's focus is on forcing Kobe to be a volume shooter to get his points. And Bowen has been fairly effective at accomplishing that goal over time.

Obviously, there are other things that determine games, but defending Kobe is the primary focus for the Spurs in a matchup with LA and Bowen's ability to make Kobe work (not to keep Kobe from scoring) is a huge difference.

[Weezer]

The thing about Bowen's defense of Kobe that is most significant has little to do with points and everything to do with shots. If Kobe gets 35 on 16 shots, he hasn't been defended well; if Kobe gets 35 on 32 shots, he's been defended extremely well. The closer Bowen gets to keeping Kobe's points per shot to somewhere between 1.0 and 1.3, the more valuable his defensive effort is.

In the last 6 matchups between the Spurs and Lakers, Bowen has accomplished that on 3 occasions, all Spurs wins -- the 3 times he hasn't done it, the Lakers have won:

12/10/06 -- 34 points, 25 shots; 1.36 pps (Lakers win)
1/17/07 -- 34 points, 19 shots; 1.79 pps (Lakers win)
1/28/07 -- 31 points, 25 shots; 1.24 pps (Spurs win)
11/13/07 -- 18 points, 19 shots; .95 pps (Spurs win)
12/13/07 -- 30 points, 24 shots; 1.25 pps (Lakers win)
1/23/08 -- 29 points, 27 shots; 1.07 pps (Spurs win)

If you take it out over a longer period of time, the trend continues. Bowen's focus is on forcing Kobe to be a volume shooter to get his points. And Bowen has been fairly effective at accomplishing that goal over time.

Obviously, there are other things that determine games, but defending Kobe is the primary focus for the Spurs in a matchup with LA and Bowen's ability to make Kobe work (not to keep Kobe from scoring) is a huge difference.

this is true....but Kobe was always the primary focus of the spurs team defense....with the addition of gasol....this enables kobe to get more one on one opportunities with bowen on him....bowen can't stop kobe from penatrating and creates a shot for himself or odem/gasol/bynum/fisher....if the spurs double team anyone....they'll be in trouble..

[Medvedenko]

The big difference is we don't have cake hands on our team again. Granted he played good D, but does not rebound as well as Bynum or Gasol. Oh, and I like Bynum's length on Duncan one on one.

[FromWayDowntown]

this is true....but Kobe was always the primary focus of the spurs team defense....with the addition of gasol....this enables kobe to get more one on one opportunities with bowen on him....bowen can't stop kobe from penatrating and creates a shot for himself or odem/gasol/bynum/fisher....if the spurs double team anyone....they'll be in trouble..

I don't know that you're entirely correct about that, because the numbers hold up over the Kobe-Shaq era, too, when the Spurs couldn't just focus on Kobe defensively.

Since the start of the 2001-02 season, Kobe and Bowen have gone head-to-head on 23 occasions. During that time, Bowen has held Kobe under 1.25 PPS on 14 occasions and the Spurs have won 12 of those games.

I don't buy your premise that Bowen CAN'T stop Kobe from penetrating -- if that was true, Kobe would be penetrating all the time and creating opportunities for his teammates by disrupting the defense. The historical fact shows that to be untrue. Bowen harasses Kobe into taking a lot of low percentage shots -- Bowen does that against many great scorers -- and his ability to do that doesn't necessarily depend on who's behind him.

Certainly, the addition of Gasol changes the calculus a bit, but I don't think it dramatically alters the Bowen-Kobe matchup and I don't think it makes it easier for Kobe to win that matchup. That's not to say that Kobe can't win it, just that, historically, Bowen has done as well as anyone in the league at making Kobe work for his points.

[diego]

You guys are still basing your analysis on pre-trade game performances.

Now, the Suns and Lakers are sporting starting 5s where every player is a threat. The Spurs can't afford to double team. Oh, and we're giving up not only more talent, but a lot of height, too.

For those of you who are not worried about the matchups on paper, please take the starting 5s of the Suns and Lakers and then tell me who will guard each one from the Spurs.

I did that in my post, but maybe if you play the game of tic-tac-toe yourself, you will see that we'll be overmatched in at least two positions.

The only way that we can win is by experience playing team defense together.

Or a trade.


and you are basing your analysis on games that havent been played. you are talking up the lakers and suns roleplayers like they are the second coming of jesus. when was odom an all star? gasol? fisher? bell? hill? since when do they get double teams (last millenium doesnt count)? and a trap is not a double team.

how are they going to defend us? we have more threats than they do, and neither one of them is a good defensive team.

[DazedAndConfused]

and you are basing your analysis on games that havent been played. you are talking up the lakers and suns roleplayers like they are the second coming of jesus. when was odom an all star? gasol? fisher? bell? hill? since when do they get double teams (last millenium doesnt count)? and a trap is not a double team.

how are they going to defend us? we have more threats than they do, and neither one of them is a good defensive team.

You do not have more threats on offense. If you did you wouldn't be struggling to score 90pts a game with just Parker and a role player Barry being out. The fact is out of the Suns, Spurs, and Lakers the Spurs have to worst offense. They compensate for it with the best D in the league.

[fyatuk]

You do not have more threats on offense. If you did you wouldn't be struggling to score 90pts a game with just Parker and a role player Barry being out. The fact is out of the Suns, Spurs, and Lakers the Spurs have to worst offense. They compensate for it with the best D in the league.

I would say most inconsistant offense, at least. The Spurs rely on forcing help and getting a shooter a wide open look. If their people who are capable of forcing help (Parker, Duncan, Ginobili) are off, the offense sucks because the open looks don't happen. If they force the help, the Spurs offense is one of the most effective, efficient, and beautiful in the league.

The Suns are badass in transition, but not really good in the half-court (one of the reasons they went after Shaq). Their style leads to a lot of open looks for both teams. Their true offense (not transition game, which I would consider separately) is fairly poor.

The Lakers have the most consistent offense of the three, mostly because Kobe can force help against just about anyone, even when he's off, and they have really consistent shooters.

[diego]

as fyatuk pointed out, we have the most versatile offense in the league. but since youre a stats guy, look at this:

lakers and suns have higher pace than spurs. the spurs have better point differential than either. lakers are missing: ariza + bynum, 6.5 +13.1 = 19.6

spurs are missing parker + barry, 19.2 + 7.3 = 26.5

now, tell me which team has more 18+ scorers- lakers, suns or spurs?
now, which one has the potential to play guys more minutes and get more production?

thanks for playing!

[Ghost Writer]

The thing about Bowen's defense of Kobe that is most significant has little to do with points and everything to do with shots. If Kobe gets 35 on 16 shots, he hasn't been defended well; if Kobe gets 35 on 32 shots, he's been defended extremely well. The closer Bowen gets to keeping Kobe's points per shot to somewhere between 1.0 and 1.3, the more valuable his defensive effort is.

In the last 6 matchups between the Spurs and Lakers, Bowen has accomplished that on 3 occasions, all Spurs wins -- the 3 times he hasn't done it, the Lakers have won:

12/10/06 -- 34 points, 25 shots; 1.36 pps (Lakers win)
1/17/07 -- 34 points, 19 shots; 1.79 pps (Lakers win)
1/28/07 -- 31 points, 25 shots; 1.24 pps (Spurs win)
11/13/07 -- 18 points, 19 shots; .95 pps (Spurs win)
12/13/07 -- 30 points, 24 shots; 1.25 pps (Lakers win)
1/23/08 -- 29 points, 27 shots; 1.07 pps (Spurs win)

If you take it out over a longer period of time, the trend continues. Bowen's focus is on forcing Kobe to be a volume shooter to get his points. And Bowen has been fairly effective at accomplishing that goal over time.

Obviously, there are other things that determine games, but defending Kobe is the primary focus for the Spurs in a matchup with LA and Bowen's ability to make Kobe work (not to keep Kobe from scoring) is a huge difference.

Hogwash.

All I see is Kobe averaging nearly 30 PPG game on Bowen and not having to guard Bowen on defense.

Now add Bynum and Gasol to the mix.

Kobe won't have to shoot as much.

[Holt's Cat]

Hogwash.

All I see is Kobe averaging nearly 30 PPG game on Bowen and not having to guard Bowen on defense.

Now add Bynum and Gasol to the mix.

Kobe won't have to shoot as much.


So the Spurs take the ball out of the hands of their most capable offensive player. This is bad because...?

[Holt's Cat]

Grant Hill guarding Manu = :hungry:

Exactly. Yet somehow Casper thinks it's 1997.

[Ghost Writer]

... they have 3-4 other options now.

[DazedAndConfused]

The less Kobe is shooting the better for the team overall. I think we are almost undefeated this season when Kobe scores under 20.

[Holt's Cat]

... they have 3-4 other options now.

They added that many options with the Gasol trade?

[Holt's Cat]

Bowen was the key to the Spurs' dropping the Lakers in '03 because then the Spurs could defend Bryant with one player and then save their double teams for Shaq. Now they defend the Lakers straight up because of that. Oh noes.

[Medvedenko]

Bowen was the key to the Spurs' dropping the Lakers in '03 because then the Spurs could defend Bryant with one player and then save their double teams for Shaq. Now they defend the Lakers straight up because of that. Oh noes.


Yeah, Bowen is better than he was in 03 and Kobe's worst.

[T Park]

Bowen's offense is better no question.

[Holt's Cat]

Yeah, Bowen is better than he was in 03 and Kobe's worst.


Worst? New to the language?

Kobe also has no teammate today comparable to Shaq in '03.

[DazedAndConfused]

Bowen's offense??? Please he has ZERO game outside of the corner 3.

[fyatuk]

Bowen's offense??? Please he has ZERO game outside of the corner 3.

Hey, he's looked pretty decent with that drive and finger-rollish thing this year. Not that I really want him trying it....

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't think the point is to compare Bowen and Kobe directly, except to say that Bowen's ability to make Kobe work for his points is a key to the Spurs' chances against LA (as it has been for years now). You can think that points per shot is insignificant if you want, but I'd venture a guess that Pop and the Gang look at that number moreso than Kobe's points to assess whether Bowen has done a good job or not. The point about Kobe shooting less is relevant to that analysis only inasmuch as if Bowen is able to make Kobe an inefficient scorer, a reduction in Kobe's shots will knock down Kobe's points. Like I said earlier, if Kobe gets 30 on 15 shots, the Lakers are going to win. If Kobe needs 30 shots to get 30, the Spurs' chances go up dramatically. If Kobe needs 15 shots to 15 points, the same holds. The more shots Kobe takes, the less his teammates are involved - and if Bowen can make Kobe throw up a lot of shots to get his points, the Spurs team defense will be relieved of the burdens imposed by the rest of the Lakers' scorers.

If Bowen can score without taking a lot of shots to get his points, all the better -- of all opponents, he does that most against LA for some reason.

[Medvedenko]

Well I agree...but the key to the series won't be the big 3 on each team, but the role players. I can see Odom being the tipping point.

[DazedAndConfused]

I don't think the Spur's role players this year are as good as they were last year. Horry is useless, Bonner/Elson get almost no playing time, and Barry is constantly injured. If the Spurs were 100% healthy I would be very afraid of them, but injuries and age have finally caught up with them this season.

[Mark in Austin]

Udoka seems to be able to handle taller players trying to post him up better than Bowen, so I could see Udoka spending time on Odom. Horry too. Even Finley from time to time. Manu will see some time on him. Bowen will be on Kobe as long as he's in the game.

I think you'll see different looks all night in the front court. I can see Oberto, Horry, and Duncan all checking Gasol at different times. Same goes for Bynum, except I don't see Horry on him that often.

[FromWayDowntown]

Well I agree...but the key to the series won't be the big 3 on each team, but the role players. I can see Odom being the tipping point.

I actually think that in the Spurs case, their best (only?) chance to beat any team comes down to getting strong performances on both ends from their big three, but that's not usually a problem over the length of a 7 gamer.

And, frankly, in my estimation, if a team is going to knock out the Spurs, it's going to do it on the boards.

[Purple & Gold]

Lakers will win Team of the Decade

[spurster]

It typically takes more than a season for star players to play well as a team. I would be worried more about next season rather than this season.

I would worry more about the Spurs defense rather than any particular team. So far it has been well below the standard of previous years.
Not true. The Lakers are already looking better with Gasol and they have enough time to get Bynum back.

That's fool's gold. Championships require championship-level defense, and it would be amazing to obtain that in half a season.

[manufor3]

Not true. The Lakers are already looking better with Gasol and they have enough time to get Bynum back.
whos side are you on?

[Ghost Writer]

You homers are living in the past.

If you are not the least bit intimidated by the new-look Lakers and Suns, coupled with the Spurs general atrophe this season, then you're fools.

[FromWayDowntown]

You homers are living in the past.

If you are not the least bit intimidated by the new-look Lakers and Suns, coupled with the Spurs general atrophe this season, then you're fools.

So what should I do? Should I force the Spurs to make a trade? Should I give up on the Spurs if they don't make a trade? Should I just give up on the Spurs anyway? Should I just stop watching basketball altogether?

[Ghost Writer]

No.

But you should not demonstrate the false bravado, biased opinion and shortsighted assessments like Holt's Cat.

Clearly, the Spurs have their work cut out for them, because the Suns and the Lakers have more options and more interior defense.

Meanwhile, the Spurs are older and injured.

To think we can just show up every year in playoffs and hope for the best is silly.

I wish the front office knew what they have in Duncan, Manu and Parker.

[FromWayDowntown]

No.

But you should not demonstrate the false bravado, biased opinion and shortsighted assessments like Holt's Cat.

Clearly, the Spurs have their work cut out for them, because the Suns and the Lakers have more options and more interior defense.

Meanwhile, the Spurs are older and injured.

To think we can just show up every year in playoffs and hope for the best is silly.

I wish the front office knew what they have in Duncan, Manu and Parker.

But what if I still believe that the Spurs can win the title? I realize that may be seen as a biased view because the Spurs refuse to make the sorts of splashy trades that real contenders make, but if I genuinely feel that way -- for whatever reasons -- am I somehow not entitled to that viewpoint? I don't think I've ever disputed the idea that the Spurs path to a title will be difficult; but it was never going to be an easy path this year and I think it would have been foolish for anyone to think that it would be. At that, the fact that the path will be difficult doesn't make the task impossible.

If your point is that Spurs fans should believe that there's no chance for a championship without major changes, I think you're wrong. If your point is that Spurs fans should temper their optimism because there are some formidable teams in the West, I would agree with you.

[BonnerDynasty]

Bowen's offense??? Please he has ZERO game outside of the corner 3.

He lights up KOBE and the Fakers son!

[Ghost Writer]

But what if I still believe that the Spurs can win the title? I realize that may be seen as a biased view because the Spurs refuse to make the sorts of splashy trades that real contenders make, but if I genuinely feel that way -- for whatever reasons -- am I somehow not entitled to that viewpoint? I don't think I've ever disputed the idea that the Spurs path to a title will be difficult; but it was never going to be an easy path this year and I think it would have been foolish for anyone to think that it would be. At that, the fact that the path will be difficult doesn't make the task impossible.

If your point is that Spurs fans should believe that there's no chance for a championship without major changes, I think you're wrong. If your point is that Spurs fans should temper their optimism because there are some formidable teams in the West, I would agree with you.

It's definitely the latter:

"If your point is that Spurs fans should temper their optimism because there are some formidable teams in the West, I would agree with you."

Here's the thing.

I am trying to build a case as to where the Spurs can still expose the Lakers and the Suns.

A healthy Parker can still potentially blow by whoever will be guarding him, but now he'll also have to contend with the shotblocking of Bynum/Gasol and O'Neal/Stoudamire.

I hope Duncan is not double teamed by Bynum/Gasol and O'Neal/Stoudamire, which is entirely possible when you consider the inept Bowen on the offensive end.

That leaves us with Ginobili. Hopefully, he will draw G. Hill or Odom on the offensive end. I think he has the speed, strength and creativity to get by those guys.

I am very concerned about Gasol and Stoudamire going bananas against Oberto. It used to be that if the Spurs could contain Kobe and Nash, that was enough. Now the Lakers and Suns both have a star PF/C that can go off against our weak frontcourt. (Duncan will most likely guard Bynum and Shaq... the "easier" assignments if you can believe that).

The trump card for the Spurs is the team defense. That can make up for individual inadequacies. The Spur shave more experience playing together on D in playoff situations. That's another advantage.

So there's that.

It's going to be tougher than ever, but it's possible.

Thoughts?

[SAGambler]

I actually think that in the Spurs case, their best (only?) chance to beat any team comes down to getting strong performances on both ends from their big three, but that's not usually a problem over the length of a 7 gamer.

And, frankly, in my estimation, if a team is going to knock out the Spurs, it's going to do it on the boards.

That's what would scare me against the Lakers, especially if they get Bynum back healthy. I think the Spurs would be at a distinct disadvantage on the boards. Allowing second chance points have cost us a few games already this year. I think right now, that is the weakest part of the Spurs game.

[Ghost Writer]

Um, yeah.

Our frontcourt does not match theirs.

And then they got guys like Nash and Kobe, too.

My last post gives some inspiration.

[cash459]

BE AFRAID BE VERY AFRIAD ... KOBE/BYNUM/GASOL

They're BACK!!! The Lakeshow!!!

Spurs better win as much as they can now that window is closing ...almost as fast as Manu's hair is thinning!!!

Kobe IS a good player...damn near great.

Bynum...could be VERY hesitant with that knee...the list of great players who have wrecked a knee and never been the same again is LONG...only time will tell, but dont give hime a ring yet, when he hasnt even tested his "new" knee.

Gasol...back problems at 27!? wtf!? it only gets worse....look at Bird, Shaq, Robinson, just to name a few...his window is closing just as fast.

So dont start poppin bottles already. The lakers still havent done anything that counts!

[timvp]

Holt's Cat, well, gee, you sure put me in my place.

We play in a motion offense and those are just names. Phew. What was I worried about?

Come with a take, please.

T. Duncan / S. O'Neal / A. Bynum
B. Bowen / S. Nash / K. Bryant
F. Oberto / A. Stoudamire / P. Gasol
T. Parker / R. Bell / D. Fisher
M. Finley / B. Diaw / V. Radmonovic
E. Ginobili / G. Hill / L. Odom

Where do you see the Spurs scoring easily or getting stops?

Well, we can start with the fact that the game is not 6 on 6.
:lmao

Classic Ghost Writer vs. Marcus Bryant matchup.

[DazedAndConfused]

Kobe IS a good player...damn near great.

Bynum...could be VERY hesitant with that knee...the list of great players who have wrecked a knee and never been the same again is LONG...only time will tell, but dont give hime a ring yet, when he hasnt even tested his "new" knee.

Gasol...back problems at 27!? wtf!? it only gets worse....look at Bird, Shaq, Robinson, jsut to name a few...his window is closing just as fast.

So dont start poppin bottles already. The lakers still havent done anything that counts!

Wow talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.

1st of all Bynum's knee injury was not serious at all. No tears or surgery required whatsoever and the prognosis is that he will recover 100%, and furthermore with rehab his knee should be even stronger. He may be tentative for a few games but it won't last too long.

Gasol's back problems are a non issue considering HE'S PLAYING THROUGH IT. All NBA players have to deal with the occasional aches and pains and that is all this is. Once the All-Star break comes he'll be able to rest and recuperate.

The entire Laker team is built to go deep for the next 5-10 years. Guys like Gasol can be replaced, it's Kobe and Bynum that are the key guys.

[cash459]

No.

But you should not demonstrate the false bravado, biased opinion and shortsighted assessments like Holt's Cat.

Clearly, the Spurs have their work cut out for them, because the Suns and the Lakers have more options and more interior defense.

Meanwhile, the Spurs are older and injured.

To think we can just show up every year in playoffs and hope for the best is silly.

I wish the front office knew what they have in Duncan, Manu and Parker.

Ok, the Spurs have injuries NOW...who the hell in here can tell the future and KNOW that the spurs will have injuries down the road!?

Yes, we're older, yes we have HAD injuries, but what team doesnt?!

Its a 50/50 wash on which way it could go.....stop trying to predict the future. EVERYTHING could change tomorrow or 2 weeks from now. Any player that plays could get a career ending injury btwn now and the PO's.

get over it and watch it unfold and be amazed at the resiliancy of the Spurs!

[cash459]

Wow talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.

1st of all Bynum's knee injury was not serious at all. No tears or surgery required whatsoever and the prognosis is that he will recover 100%, and furthermore with rehab his knee should be even stronger. He may be tentative for a few games but it won't last too long.

Gasol's back problems are a non issue considering HE'S PLAYING THROUGH IT. All NBA players have to deal with the occasional aches and pains and that is all this is. Once the All-Star break comes he'll be able to rest and recuperate.

The entire Laker team is built to go deep for the next 5-10 years. Guys like Gasol can be replaced, it's Kobe and Bynum that are the key guys.

What happens if Bynum gets that knee banged again or tweaks it...hes young, hes going to freak!

The spurs play through injuries too...remember Tim's foot injury? that didnt stop him. Tony will be 100% VERY soon.

gasol hasnt played against many big men pounding him on his back for 40-50 minutes.....we'll see how it goes.....

the spurs get just as much time to rest of the break as the lakers so it will help them too. The spurs match up fine against the lakers.

[FromWayDowntown]

Um, yeah.

Our frontcourt does not match theirs.

And then they got guys like Nash and Kobe, too.

My last post gives some inspiration.

Well, if you want to look at things that way, the Mavs' front court did not appear, on paper at least, to be a match against the Spurs front court in 2006, but they sure as hell out rebounded the Spurs and neutralized the Spurs' advantages by their style of play and their commitment to getting to the glass and exploiting mismatches.

[cash459]

Well, if you want to look at things that way, the Mavs' front court did not appear, on paper at least, to be a match against the Spurs front court in 2006, but they sure as hell out rebounded the Spurs and neutralized the Spurs' advantages by their style of play and their commitment to getting to the glass and exploiting mismatches.

look at the matchup the mavs frontcourt had against the Warriors last year...what happened then!?

Match-ups on paper dont mean squat! ANYTHING can happen in the game and especially in a series. the Spurs have enough experience in tough situations to get them through anything!

[Ghost Writer]

Well, if you want to look at things that way, the Mavs' front court did not appear, on paper at least, to be a match against the Spurs front court in 2006, but they sure as hell out rebounded the Spurs and neutralized the Spurs' advantages by their style of play and their commitment to getting to the glass and exploiting mismatches.
Now, you are thinking, FWD.

Much better than the "my dad can beat up your dad" crap from the other homers.

Remember, even if the Suns and Lakers have more ways to overmatch us, it still comes down to scoring on possessions.

The Spurs may only have one competitive advantage on offense, but if it works, it doesn't matter if the other team has more.

And the Spurs can get more stops hopefully.

[timvp]

This thread reminds me of Ghost Writer circa 2003 when he just couldn't fathom how the Spurs could beat the Lakers.


Shaq = Duncan
Horry = Robinson
Fisher = Parker
Kobe > Ginobili
George > Bowen

We're Doomed. ©

[FromWayDowntown]

It's definitely the latter:

"If your point is that Spurs fans should temper their optimism because there are some formidable teams in the West, I would agree with you."

Here's the thing.

I am trying to build a case as to where the Spurs can still expose the Lakers and the Suns.

A healthy Parker can still potentially blow by whoever will be guarding him, but now he'll also have to contend with the shotblocking of Bynum/Gasol and O'Neal/Stoudamire.

I hope Duncan is not double teamed by Bynum/Gasol and O'Neal/Stoudamire, which is entirely possible when you consider the inept Bowen on the offensive end.

That leaves us with Ginobili. Hopefully, he will draw G. Hill or Odom on the offensive end. I think he has the speed, strength and creativity to get by those guys.

I am very concerned about Gasol and Stoudamire going bananas against Oberto. It used to be that if the Spurs could contain Kobe and Nash, that was enough. Now the Lakers and Suns both have a star PF/C that can go off against our weak frontcourt. (Duncan will most likely guard Bynum and Shaq... the "easier" assignments if you can believe that).

The trump card for the Spurs is the team defense. That can make up for individual inadequacies. The Spur shave more experience playing together on D in playoff situations. That's another advantage.

So there's that.

It's going to be tougher than ever, but it's possible.

Thoughts?

I'll engage you for a moment here. I actually think that Phoenix will have a more difficult time defending the Spurs in a playoff series now that they don't have Marion's length and athletcism available to deal with Parker. As I see it, the Suns have 3 choices to deal with the Spurs' backcourt: (1) play Bell on Parker (to deal with the head of the snake, so to speak), play Hill on Manu and play Nash on Bowen; (2) play Hill on Parker (to use length) while keeping Bell on Manu and Nash on Bowen; (3) play Barbosa a lot on Parker and go smaller in the backcourt with Nash on Bowen and either Hill or Bell on Manu (with the other sitting on the bench). I don't think it's feasible for the Suns to think that they can beat the Spurs with Nash on Parker at all. From there, I also don't think that option 3 makes much sense for the Suns, because even with his speed, Barbosa has shown absolutely no ability to deter Parker's drives, so I'll call it the least likely option. Honestly, I think D'Antoni is most likely to take course #2, if only because Bell has shown himself to be a decent defender against Manu at times; but in choosing that option, D'Antoni also has to realize that while Grant Hill's story is heartwarming, he's not the athlete that Shawn Marion is and that, if Parker is healthy, there's little chance that Hill can deny him penetration for long stretches of a playoff series. The Spurs' offense starts from there -- if Parker is able to drive, he creates chaos for the defense and opportunities for his teammates, even if he doesn't play as a traditional point might. So Parker drives and gets into the middle. Shaq, who is ostensibly defending Duncan (as Stoudemire has shown little ability to do that effectively and without getting himself into foul trouble) comes off to deny Parker's teardrop and forces the dish to Duncan who is either uncontested -- particularly if Oberto/Elson/Horry is lifted -- or who is defended by a little guy who is going to either concede the layup or take the foul. If the little guy comes down on Duncan, the Spurs' three-point shooters are now dealing with a scrambling defense that is rotating like crazy to catch-up from the help and can be beaten for an open look by a skip pass or two. Obviously, it won't work every time down the floor, but it should afford the Spurs plenty of opportunities to find easy buckets. With that, if D'Antoni's strategy is to play Shaq on Duncan for long minutes, Tim is going to make the Big Fella work and has a decent chance to get him into foul trouble (noteworthy given Shaq's inability to stay out of foul trouble earlier this season). If D'Antoni doesn't play Shaq on Duncan, his choices are to use Stoudemire (a choice that has rarely been profitable for Phoenix) or to play Diaw, which makes the Suns take another shooter off the floor. I'll take those matchups. Not saying the Spurs dominate them, but I do think there are plenty of opportunities there for the Spurs.

Offensively, if Phoenix goes big with Shaq, Amare, and Diaw, they're basically down to 2 bombers if they play Bell at the 2 (Bell and Nash) or 1 if they play Hill at the 2. That means that they aren't spreading the floor as they used to, making it much, much easier for the Spurs to play their team defensive concepts. If they stay relatively small and use Diaw with Skinner to spell Shaq and Amare, the Spurs can, I think, get away with giving Shaq only token doubles and daring the Suns to feed him all night. I certainly respect Shaq and his ability at this point, but I don't think he's the guy who's going to get 40 if he's given single-coverage all night long. That is to say that I don't think Shaq disrupts the defense as much as he used to. Where Shaq can make a big difference for the Suns in by drawing fouls early in quarters and getting the Suns into the bonus early so that little touch fouls on Nash or their other good FT shooters will put them on the line. He gives them a bail-out option in halfcourt sets, too, but if the Suns are playing in a lot of halfcourt sets, I'd say that works to the Spurs' advantage anyway.

I need to get some work done, but I'll try to get some thoughts about the Lakers -- who strike me as far more formidable -- later.

[FromWayDowntown]

Now, you are thinking, FWD.

Much better than the "my dad can beat up your dad" crap from the other homers.

Remember, even if the Suns and Lakers have more ways to overmatch us, it still comes down to scoring on possessions.

The Spurs may only have one competitive advantage on offense, but if it works, it doesn't matter if the other team has more.

And the Spurs can get more stops hopefully.

"other" homers?

[diego]

Clearly, the Spurs have their work cut out for them, because the Suns and the Lakers have more options and more interior defense.


now they have more interior defense? amare is a good defender now? shaq was ever a good defender? diaw?

the lakers have bynum at least. what about gasol? odom?

duncan is better than all of them. and oberto is a better defender than amare, shaq, gasol and odom. they may block more shots but they arent better defenders.

i'll give you that the lakers are going to outrebound us unless horry and oberto really step it up in the playoffs. that's a problem. but they dont have better interior defense than we do.

[Ghost Writer]

This thread reminds me of Ghost Writer circa 2003 when he just couldn't fathom how the Spurs could beat the Lakers.
I learned from that, as evidenced in my most recent posts in this thread, but even you have to admit that the deck is stacked pretty high against us this time, and by two teams, timvp.

I'd like to see LA play Phoenix in the playoffs (Shaq vs. Kobe).

[Ghost Writer]

I'll engage you for a moment here. I actually think that Phoenix will have a more difficult time defending the Spurs in a playoff series now that they don't have Marion's length and athletcism available to deal with Parker. As I see it, the Suns have 3 choices to deal with the Spurs' backcourt: (1) play Bell on Parker (to deal with the head of the snake, so to speak), play Hill on Manu and play Nash on Bowen; (2) play Hill on Parker (to use length) while keeping Bell on Manu and Nash on Bowen; (3) play Barbosa a lot on Parker and go smaller in the backcourt with Nash on Bowen and either Hill or Bell on Manu (with the other sitting on the bench). I don't think it's feasible for the Suns to think that they can beat the Spurs with Nash on Parker at all. From there, I also don't think that option 3 makes much sense for the Suns, because even with his speed, Barbosa has shown absolutely no ability to deter Parker's drives, so I'll call it the least likely option. Honestly, I think D'Antoni is most likely to take course #2, if only because Bell has shown himself to be a decent defender against Manu at times; but in choosing that option, D'Antoni also has to realize that while Grant Hill's story is heartwarming, he's not the athlete that Shawn Marion is and that, if Parker is healthy, there's little chance that Hill can deny him penetration for long stretches of a playoff series. The Spurs' offense starts from there -- if Parker is able to drive, he creates chaos for the defense and opportunities for his teammates, even if he doesn't play as a traditional point might. So Parker drives and gets into the middle. Shaq, who is ostensibly defending Duncan (as Stoudemire has shown little ability to do that effectively and without getting himself into foul trouble) comes off to deny Parker's teardrop and forces the dish to Duncan who is either uncontested -- particularly if Oberto/Elson/Horry is lifted -- or who is defended by a little guy who is going to either concede the layup or take the foul. If the little guy comes down on Duncan, the Spurs' three-point shooters are now dealing with a scrambling defense that is rotating like crazy to catch-up from the help and can be beaten for an open look by a skip pass or two. Obviously, it won't work every time down the floor, but it should afford the Spurs plenty of opportunities to find easy buckets. With that, if D'Antoni's strategy is to play Shaq on Duncan for long minutes, Tim is going to make the Big Fella work and has a decent chance to get him into foul trouble (noteworthy given Shaq's inability to stay out of foul trouble earlier this season). If D'Antoni doesn't play Shaq on Duncan, his choices are to use Stoudemire (a choice that has rarely been profitable for Phoenix) or to play Diaw, which makes the Suns take another shooter off the floor. I'll take those matchups. Not saying the Spurs dominate them, but I do think there are plenty of opportunities there for the Spurs.

Offensively, if Phoenix goes big with Shaq, Amare, and Diaw, they're basically down to 2 bombers if they play Bell at the 2 (Bell and Nash) or 1 if they play Hill at the 2. That means that they aren't spreading the floor as they used to, making it much, much easier for the Spurs to play their team defensive concepts. If they stay relatively small and use Diaw with Skinner to spell Shaq and Amare, the Spurs can, I think, get away with giving Shaq only token doubles and daring the Suns to feed him all night. I certainly respect Shaq and his ability at this point, but I don't think he's the guy who's going to get 40 if he's given single-coverage all night long. That is to say that I don't think Shaq disrupts the defense as much as he used to. Where Shaq can make a big difference for the Suns in by drawing fouls early in quarters and getting the Suns into the bonus early so that little touch fouls on Nash or their other good FT shooters will put them on the line. He gives them a bail-out option in halfcourt sets, too, but if the Suns are playing in a lot of halfcourt sets, I'd say that works to the Spurs' advantage anyway.

I need to get some work done, but I'll try to get some thoughts about the Lakers -- who strike me as far more formidable -- later.
Post of the day.

Read this homers... FWD just made a compelling case for the Spurs vs. the Suns.


And because some of you are still confused:

Gasol/Bynum and Stoudamite/O'Neal all rebound and all block shots.

What would prevent them from doubling on Duncan?

Bowen doesn't need to be guarded and they can peel off Oberto, too.

[T Park]

What would prevent them from doubling on Duncan?



Ginobili, Bowen, Parker, Barry, Finley, Horry, Udoka all making wide open 3s and jumpers?

[Ghost Writer]

Ginobili, Bowen, Parker, Barry, Finley, Horry, Udoka all making wide open 3s and jumpers?
:lol

Right.

[Holt's Cat]

Gasol/Bynum and Stoudamite/O'Neal all rebound and all block shots.




Stoudamite? Any relation to...

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/Dolemite.jpg

?

[T Park]

:lol

Right.

Yeah cause those guys have never made playoff shots.

[Holt's Cat]

:lol

Right.


Do you understand Spurs Basketball?

Question.

:cooldevil

[T Park]

Stoudamite? Any relation to...

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/Dolemite.jpg

?


I didn't know the Cowboys owner was a movie guy.

How bout that.

[Holt's Cat]

Why is it that Casper is so easily "shook" every season about this time? All that's left is for him to make his cameo in June and berate those who didn't believe in this team.

[T Park]

Why is it that Casper is so easily "shook" every season about this time? All that's left is for him to make his cameo in June and berate those who didn't believe in this team.

Or Whitney > Parker

or Erick Williams > Bowen

[FromWayDowntown]

What would prevent them from doubling on Duncan?

Bowen doesn't need to be guarded and they can peel off Oberto, too.

Pretty tough to double from Bowen if Bowen is standing in the opposite corner -- Tim on the right block, Bowen in the left corner (or vice-versa). And if they're going to peel off of Oberto, Playoff Robert Horry (to the extent that guy still exists) might make them think otherwise.

[T Park]

If they peel off Oberto, he will make layup after layup like he did early last year where he put 20 and 10 on em.

Hed prob also tear em a new one like he did to the Jazz in the Western Finals?

[Ghost Writer]

Okay, guys. Try having a point like FWD.

You two jerk0ffs bring nothing substantial other than the same "I'm a Spurs fan and the Spurs are the bestest!" drivel.

Laugh now, cry later.

This team looks a lot like the 2001-02 teams that were old and couldn't hit 3s against the Lakers in the playoffs.

[T Park]

Okay, guys. Try having a point like FWD.

You two jerk0ffs bring nothing substantial other than the same "I'm a Spurs fan and the Spurs are the bestest!" drivel.

Laugh now, cry later.

This team looks a lot like the 2001-02 teams that were old and couldn't hit 3s against the Lakers in the playoffs.


My point was, if they double Duncan, theres a shooter thats open, and shooters that are playoff proven.

UNLIKE 2001 2002.

But continue to rehash retoric from 01 02.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Okay, guys. Try having a point like FWD.

You two jerk0ffs bring nothing substantial other than the same "I'm a Spurs fan and the Spurs are the bestest!" drivel.

Laugh now, cry later.

This team looks a lot like the 2001-02 teams that were old and couldn't hit 3s against the Lakers in the playoffs.

Right now we are. A healthy Tony Parker changes the complexion of this team significantly on the offensive end of the court.

I don't think Tony's been healthy all season.

[Ghost Writer]

Parker is hobbled, Barry is hurt.

Horry is hot and cold (should be okay for the playoffs).

Everyone is older.

I got a bad feeling... reminds me a lot of 2001-02 playoffs teams, which were full of "proven" old 3-point shooters.



P.S.

Lakers get Bynum back, just like we get Parker back.

[T Park]

which were full of "proven" old 3-point shooters.


What playoff prove shooters were on that team?


question

[DazedAndConfused]

We'll take our chances with Bynum on Duncan and if we do bring the double team it will be Gasol coming over to help. The height of Gasol and Bynum will neutralize Duncan's ability to see the floor and find the open cutters.

If Parker is 100% this series will be very fun to watch. If he is 75-85% then it won't even be close IMHO. The Spurs won't be able to score enough points to win despite their stellar D. This has been their problem ever since Parker has gotten hurt.

[Ghost Writer]

Try again in English.

Dude, who wasn't a proven shooter on those two playoff teams that fell to the Lakers?

The point is that you can't assume the 3-point shot will fall... even the open looks.

The Suns/Lakers don't have to double either.

They can cheat off Bowen/Oberto and play man-to-man.

[himat]

Horry still scares me. You know he is going to pull off another crazy shot in the playoffs this year.

[Ghost Writer]

We'll take our chances with Bynum on Duncan and if we do bring the double team it will be Gasol coming over to help. The height of Gasol and Bynum will neutralize Duncan's ability to see the floor and find the open cutters.

If Parker is 100% this series will be very fun to watch. If he is 75-85% then it won't even be close IMHO. The Spurs won't be able to score enough points to win despite their stellar D. This has been their problem ever since Parker has gotten hurt.
I can't argue with logic.

Hopefully the Spurs team defense will bail us out.

[Holt's Cat]

Okay, guys. Try having a point like FWD.

You two jerk0ffs bring nothing substantial other than the same "I'm a Spurs fan and the Spurs are the bestest!" drivel.

Laugh now, cry later.

This team looks a lot like the 2001-02 teams that were old and couldn't hit 3s against the Lakers in the playoffs.


Other than the fact that the Spurs have Manu Ginobili and Finley and Barry are much better than what they had then, or that 2001-02 was Parker's rookie season.

Stop turning into a scared whiny bitch every February.

[T Park]

Dude, who wasn't a proven shooter on those two playoff teams that fell to the Lakers?



Read.

Comprehend.

PLAYOFF
PROVEN
SHOOTER


Who did they have?

AGAIN

Question

[fyatuk]

Post of the day.

Read this homers... FWD just made a compelling case for the Spurs vs. the Suns.


And because some of you are still confused:

Gasol/Bynum and Stoudamite/O'Neal all rebound and all block shots.

What would prevent them from doubling on Duncan?

Bowen doesn't need to be guarded and they can peel off Oberto, too.

He basically just expanded what others have said. Granted, he stated it a LOT better.

Gasol, Stoudamire, and O'Neal are not good on the ball defenders (Bynum I haven't seen enough of), and never have been. If any of them are on Tim, the other teams will be required to double, which opens up the shooters (Bruce, Finley, Barry, and Manu are all very reliable shooters when open and healthy). If they don't double, Tim abuses them.

Bowen tends to have big games offensively when the opposing teams figures they can completely ignore him. Most teams don't stray to far from him if he's in the corner. If the player guarding Oberto leaves him, it's normally 2 points for the Spurs since he can hit the 10' jumper and is exceptional at slipping down near the basket (he'll end up with one of his 8-9 shooting nights).

Since they are good helpers, they'll assuredly slide over on Tony's drives, which leaves open either Tim or Oberto, either of which can hit the short jumper reliably. Tony might need to look to pass more than normal, but he's shown he can do that (he's asked not to).

Forcing defenders to help is the entire point of the Spurs offense. If you can play the Spurs straight up, things will be hard for them. The problem is no team can play both Tony and Tim straight up. Neither the Suns or the Lakers have anyone that will even come close to matching up with Tony, and for the most part their Bigs are help defenders meaning they ain't matching up with Tim one on one either.

The Spurs might also increase how often they run pick-and-rolls to pull one of the bigs out of the lane and force them to play d on the ball in space.

It comes down to whether or not the Spurs are hitting their open shots, period. With both Tony and Tim in and healthy, the Spurs will get plenty of wide open shots. Phoenix is a little more difficult since they play passing lanes more than straight up, so a lot of balls get tipped, but you get a lot more open looks. If the Spurs shooters (including Horry and Bonner, who may be important to pull the second big out of the lane) are hitting a fair percentage, the Spurs will beat either team in a seven game series, most likely.

[1Parker1]

Suns don't scare me.

Spurs biggest obstacles in the playoffs: Lakers, Mavs, and Jazz in that order. I think other teams may push them to 6 or even 7 games depending on who the matchup is. And I think that first round matchup may in turn affect how much energy or gas the Spurs have remaining in their tanks for the remainder of the playoffs.

That's the thing about this year's playoffs; it could go any way depending on where the seeding falls. Right now 3-6 match up in the first round is Spurs and Mavs. Now I think that series would be draining and could go to 6 or 7 games. Now if the Lakers had the first spot and play the Rockets for example, I think the Lakers can take the Rockets in 5 games. That means they may be a lot more rested for the winner of Spurs-Mavs. This goes on and on.

A healthy Spurs team, if they're hitting their stride has a good chance of beating any team in the West. There's no clear cut favorite this year. I think it's just going to come down to which of the top contenders has the favorable opponent and easiest playoff route.

[Holt's Cat]

Why is it that Ghost assumes the Spurs are running 4Down every play?

Funny he mentions the '01 and '02 playoffs. It's good to review those years. In '01 the Spurs main penetrator was Derek Anderson who was knocked out thanks to Juwan Howard with a shoulder injury and missed the first few games of the '01 WCF series. When he came back he wasn't even 100%. Lest we forget the Spurs' best perimeter threat after him was a Sean Elliott who had recently returned from kidney transplant surgery. Spurs get trounced.

Moving to the '02 playoffs, the Spurs add Bowen in the summer of 2001 as well as point guard whose experience consisted of playing for Paris Basket Racing. The Spurs do much better against the Lakers this time around and didn't embarass themselves.

Now...2003. The Spurs bring in their '99 draft pick, the best player in Europe, Emmanuel Ginobili. In addition, Stephen Jackson is brought into the rotation. With the offensive perimeter threats and Bowen working his magic against Kobe the Spurs finally drop the Kobe-Shaq Lakers in the postseason.

Again, I'm not sure how much today's Spurs have in common with those 2001 and 2002 playoff teams. The Spurs are certainly much better situated at the guard spots today than they were in either of those seasons.

Casper will never figure out Spurs basketball. Why is it that he assumes the Spurs are just Duncan and that's it? Does he even understand the caliber of talent the Spurs have on the perimeter? Does he realize that 4Down is only a minor part of their offensive game plan these days? I know Parker and Ginobili weren't traded for, but his dismissal of their talent belies an outright ignorance of what has won the Spurs 3 NBA championships in the last 5 seasons.

He'll also never realize how good he has it. I'm not about to guess as to what personal tragedy has befallen him that has led to this sudden outbreak of forum cathartic whinyness.

[Ghost Writer]

Um, the current crop of Spurs is not as good as the 2003 edition, pal.

They remind me more of the old, injured '01 and '02 teams.

The motion works a lot better when Parker is playing and healthy.

I realize how good we have it.

Too bad you and the front office don't.

[Holt's Cat]

Um, the current crop of Spurs is not as good as the 2003 edition, pal.

They remind me more of the old, injured '01 and '02 teams.

Which didn't have Emmanuel Ginobili or any guard of Finley or Barry's ability in the rotation.



The motion works a lot better when Parker is playing and healthy.

I realize how good we have it.

Too bad you and the front office don't.

:lol Sure. Which is why you are panicking like a 16 year old chick who's missed her period.

[Ghost Writer]

Have Phoenix and LA Lakers improved, Holt's Cat?

Question.

[Streakyshooter08]

Well, I haven't read the entire thread but I also think that the Spurs will have their hands full with the Lakers. They have a HUGE frontcourt and have Fisher and Kobe. I would like the see the Spurs pick up another good defensive big. The Spurs will have to play their best basketball to win it all this year.

I don't know how to judge the Shaq deal. If he gets healthy he could be a force again. His problem is his age and injury. If he is not healthy come playoff time the Suns have no shot at winning it all.

[Holt's Cat]

I don't think Phoenix has, unless Shaq undergoes a miraculous recovery. He wasn't good enough this season when he was on the court to carry his team above .500. In the Eastern Conference. Marion's defense, rebounding, and offense were important for the Suns against the Spurs.

Picking up Gasol for Kwame Brown isn't a bad trade obviously, but Gasol isn't the defensive stalwart you seem to believe he is.

Anyways, the Lakers haven't improved enough to take out the Spurs in a 7 game series, so find something else to whine about.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think this team is very different than the teams they had in 2001 and 2002 for two specific reasons:

1. The 2001 team could get run down easily by the Lakers, who pressured the point guards for long stretches and wore them down by making it difficult to even bring it up. When Terry Porter's legs left him in 2001, the Spurs were done. The 2002 team didn't have that problem specifically, but they were facing a 2-time champion with a 19-year-old point guard and a team of guys who hadn't been through many playoff battles, whether individually or as a group. That team certainly wasn't as battle-tested as this team is.

2. Manu Ginobili is very much a different player (on both ends) than either the Derek Anderson/Antonio Daniels combo from 2001 or Steve Smith from 2002. (EDIT: I see Mar . . . .er Holt's Cat beat me to the punch on that one. I'd agree that the guys who were in the rotation for the 2002 Spurs -- mostly Charles Smith and Antonio Daniels -- were anywhere near as good or as dangerous as Barry and Finley are).

[Holt's Cat]

2. Manu Ginobili is very much a different player (on both ends) than either the Derek Anderson/Antonio Daniels combo from 2001 or Steve Smith from 2002.

Finley and Barry are better than Smith back then as well. Does Ghost actually watch Spurs games?

[Ghost Writer]

I don't think Phoenix has, unless Shaq undergoes a miraculous recovery. He wasn't good enough this season when he was on the court to carry his team above .500. In the Eastern Conference. Marion's defense, rebounding, and offense were important for the Suns against the Spurs.

Picking up Gasol for Kwame Brown isn't a bad trade obviously, but Gasol isn't the defensive stalwart you seem to believe he is.

Anyways, the Lakers haven't improved enough to take out the Spurs in a 7 game series, so find something else to whine about.
I disagree a little.

Marion was great hounding Parker, true. But he thrived offensively when Stoudamire was on the bench. If Shaq is productive, it will allow the Suns to play in the halfcourt and Stoudamire to abuse our frontcourt.

Gasol rebounds and blocks shots and can help defend Duncan. Again, he can kill Oberto/Elson/Horry. Bowen has never slowed down Kobe and with the emergence of Bynum and the acquisition of Gasol, the Lakers certainly have enough to beat our geriatric, hobbled team.

I'm not saying they will.

I am saying the challenge has never been greater.

Yet we stand pat.

[Holt's Cat]

:shakesheadindisgust

Bowen has slowed Bryant down. The key is that he forces Bryant into low shooting %s due to increasing the degree of difficulty of his shots and keeping him away from the hoop. But the real key is that he allows the Spurs to guard him one on one and focus on shutting the other 4 guys down. What double team are the Lakers going to force the Spurs into throwing at them? Gasol doesn't change that.

Lest we forget that on the defensive end the Lakers haven't really improved against the Spurs with that trade. But, I know, the Spurs' offense consists solely of 4Down and Terry Porter, Steve Smith, and Danny Ferry on the perimeter, or whatever your crack addled brain believes today.

[Ghost Writer]

:shakesheadindisgust

Bowen has slowed Bryant down. The key is that he forces Bryant into low shooting %s due to increasing the degree of difficulty of his shots and keeping him away from the hoop. But the real key is that he allows the Spurs to guard him one on one and focus on shutting the other 4 guys down. What double team are the Lakers going to force the Spurs into throwing at them? Gasol doesn't change that.

Lest we forget that on the defensive end the Lakers haven't really improved against the Spurs with that trade. But, I know, the Spurs' offense consists solely of 4Down and Terry Porter, Steve Smith, and Danny Ferry on the perimeter, or whatever your crack addled brain believes today.
Yeah, I know... Bowen "holds" Kobe to about 30 a game.

Kobe does not have to shoot as much now with the emergence of Bynum and the acquisition of Gasol.

Who is going to shut the other 4 down?

Oberto?

The Lakers can double Duncan now with two tall big men who are capable of more than 2 blocks a game.

Oh, and your retarded sidekick T Park brought up 4-down, not me.

A motion offense needs motion, right?

Parker playing yet?

[T Park]

The Lakers can double Duncan now with two tall big men who are capable of more than 2 blocks a game.

Oh, and your retarded sidekick T Park brought up 4-down, not me.

A motion offense needs motion, right?

Parker playing yet?


What I said jerkface was this.

If they double duncan, they leave Ginobili, Parker, Bowen, Finley, Barry, Udoka, Horry open for WIDE OPEN 3s and jumpers.

I will take THAT, over getting guarded straight up all around.

[FromWayDowntown]

Yeah, I know... Bowen "holds" Kobe to about 30 a game.

Kobe does not have to shoot as much now with the emergence of Bynum and the acquisition of Gasol.

Are you saying that Kobe's shooting percentage and offensive efficiency are necessarily going to increase against Bowen because Pau Gasol wears a Laker uniform? If not, then Kobe's either: (1) not going to get 30; or (2) continue take a lot of shots to get to 30. In either event, I don't see that Pau changes the way that the Spurs deal with Kobe.

Pau changes the way that the Spurs must defend the Lakers' bigs, but: (1) we haven't seen how this group will matchup with that group; and (2) we don't know that the Spurs won't make a deal to try to remedy that problem.

[cash459]

[/QUOTE]
:lol Sure. Which is why you are panicking like a 16 year old chick who's missed her period.[/QUOTE]

:lmao :lmao

[Ghost Writer]

What I said jerkface was this.

If they double duncan, they leave Ginobili, Parker, Bowen, Finley, Barry, Udoka, Horry open for WIDE OPEN 3s and jumpers.

I will take THAT, over getting guarded straight up all around.
Well, the Suns and Lakers can elect to D up the Spurs man-to-man now, although Bowen and Oberto can be cheated off of.

They're not good on offense.

[Ghost Writer]

Are you saying that Kobe's shooting percentage and offensive efficiency are necessarily going to increase against Bowen because Pau Gasol wears a Laker uniform? If not, then Kobe's either: (1) not going to get 30; or (2) continue take a lot of shots to get to 30. In either event, I don't see that Pau changes the way that the Spurs deal with Kobe.

Pau changes the way that the Spurs must defend the Lakers' bigs, but: (1) we haven't seen how this group will matchup with that group; and (2) we don't know that the Spurs won't make a deal to try to remedy that problem.
Watch some Lakers games closer to April.

At least look at a boxscore.

Kobe only shot so much before, because he didn't have help.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This place was a little too agreeable since Ghost left. Nice to have him back in his role as official pot stirrer.

[Medvedenko]

Prior to Bynum's injury Kobe's shot totals have been way down from previous years. It's only recenlty that he's shooting a lot and with the emergence of Pau he can pace himself until the 4th q. That's the bottom line right there. Kobe's energy in the 4th is paramount and will determine the outcome of any series. If he's tired and carrying the team the entire game, that's when we usually lose, regardless of how effecient he may be.

[FromWayDowntown]

Watch some Lakers games closer to April.

At least look at a boxscore.

Kobe only shot so much before, because he didn't have help.

I will, trust me. But I don't understand your point about Kobe's shots -- it's not like Kobe was getting 30 in 15-20 shots and then hoisting up a bunch of bricks to get his shot totals into a 1:1 correlation with his points. If Kobe's not shooting as much (at least according to historical precedent against the Spurs) he's not scoring as much because he needs a lot of shots to score a lot of points. Now, if you're saying that he'll become a more efficient scorer because Gasol is there, I'm curious about just how the Spurs' defense of Kobe is going to change to make that possible. Absent some argument to prove that point, what I see is Bowen on Kobe and little that is different about that matchup from any previous year. That's not to say that Kobe won't score -- I'm just saying that I don't see that getting Gasol makes him more efficient as a scorer.

[Ghost Writer]

Check the Lakers' record when Kobe scores under 30.

Yes, I believe Kobe will be more efficient. He can be more selective.

The defense won't change. Kobe's shot attempts will.

P.S.

Bowen is not getting any better on defense.

[Holt's Cat]

Are you saying that Kobe's shooting percentage and offensive efficiency are necessarily going to increase against Bowen because Pau Gasol wears a Laker uniform? If not, then Kobe's either: (1) not going to get 30; or (2) continue take a lot of shots to get to 30. In either event, I don't see that Pau changes the way that the Spurs deal with Kobe.

Pau changes the way that the Spurs must defend the Lakers' bigs, but: (1) we haven't seen how this group will matchup with that group; and (2) we don't know that the Spurs won't make a deal to try to remedy that problem.

Well that's the thing. Who else on the Lakers will be able to command a double team?

[Holt's Cat]

Yeah, I know... Bowen "holds" Kobe to about 30 a game.

So you think it doesn't matter that Bryant is taking 30 shots to make those 30 points and is kept out of the lane?



Kobe does not have to shoot as much now with the emergence of Bynum and the acquisition of Gasol.


Since when did Bynum turn into Shaq? Are you retarded?




Who is going to shut the other 4 down?


The other 4 Spurs, per usual. My God, how have the Spurs defeated the Lakers at all over the last 4 years?






Oberto?

The Lakers can double Duncan now with two tall big men who are capable of more than 2 blocks a game.

Oh, and your retarded sidekick T Park brought up 4-down, not me.

A motion offense needs motion, right?

Parker playing yet?

So the Lakers double Duncan and the Spurs find the open man. Qed.

[Ghost Writer]

Man, you are out of touch.

Bynum is pretty d@mn good.

And who is going to stop Gasol?

Kobe's shot gets more selective with help.

What happens when we have to double Gasol or Kobe?

You're reaching.

[Medvedenko]

So you think it doesn't matter that Bryant is taking 30 shots to make those 30 points and is kept out of the lane?



Since when did Bynum turn into Shaq? Are you retarded?



The other 4 Spurs, per usual. My God, how have the Spurs defeated the Lakers at all over the last 4 years?




So the Lakers double Duncan and the Spurs find the open man. Qed.



Hmmm....07/08 Shaq...then yes.

[FromWayDowntown]

Man, you are out of touch.

Bynum is pretty d@mn good.

And who is going to stop Gasol?

Kobe's shot gets more selective with help.

What happens when we have to double Gasol or Kobe?

You're reaching.

But the Spurs don't usually double Kobe. And I'm not sure that they were routinely doubling Pau when he was in Memphis.

[Holt's Cat]

Man, you are out of touch.

Bynum is pretty d@mn good.

And who is going to stop Gasol?

Kobe's shot gets more selective with help.

What happens when we have to double Gasol or Kobe?

You're reaching.

:lol Sorry if I don't believe Bynum is the second coming. Or that Gasol has turned into some kind of defensive juggernaut. Stop trying to find something to worry about. Dallas and Phoenix just made their teams easier to defeat for the Spurs in the postseason and like it or not, those are the Spurs' two top Western Conference rivals.

[Holt's Cat]

But the Spurs don't usually double Kobe. And I'm not sure that they were routinely doubling Pau when he was in Memphis.

Ding. Ding. Ding.

Ghost doesn't even understand how the Spurs defend the Lakers.

[Holt's Cat]

Hmmm....07/08 Shaq...then yes.

And?

[Ghost Writer]

Ding. Ding. Ding.

Ghost doesn't even understand how the Spurs defend the Lakers.
Moron.

They are on the same team now!

Kobe doesn't have to jack up all kinds of shots now that he has Gasol and Bynum helping him.

[Holt's Cat]

So Bowen still hangs on him and forces him into bad shots and keeps him from creating offensive opportunities for his teammates. Gasol isn't that good. If anything he's been a marshmellow soft pussy who puts up big stats in the regular season. Wow.

[Ghost Writer]

So Bowen still hangs on him and forces him into bad shots and keeps him from creating offensive opportunities for his teammates. Gasol isn't that good. If anything he's been a marshmellow soft pussy who puts up big stats in the regular season. Wow.
Wow.

You think that Bowen had a lot to do with Kobe's number of FGAs?

That was because he had no one else he cold trust to score.

I agree in your assessment of Gasol, but all he has to do is be the second option now, pal.

I'm not giving up, but to pretend like the Lakers aren't a threat is Poppycock™.

[Holt's Cat]

Wow.

You think that Bowen had a lot to do with Kobe's number of FGAs?

Sure. Kobe doesn't get easy opportunties when he faces the Spurs and Bowen's D keeps him from creating opportunities for his teammates. Either he jacks up some lower percentage shots or he has to pass the ball back around the perimeter.




That was because he had no one else he cold trust to score.

I agree in your assessment of Gasol, but all he has to do is be the second option now, pal.

I'm not giving up, but to pretend like the Lakers aren't a threat is Poppycock™.

Sure, they're a threat, after the Suns and Mavs, who just made themselves easier to beat.

[m33p0]

The last PO's series agains the Suns Amare has been averaging like 35 and 15 and Nash was a monster as well, they can't play any better with or without Snaq.
that was the game plan.

[m33p0]

But what if I still believe that the Spurs can win the title? I realize that may be seen as a biased view because the Spurs refuse to make the sorts of splashy trades that real contenders make, but if I genuinely feel that way -- for whatever reasons -- am I somehow not entitled to that viewpoint? I don't think I've ever disputed the idea that the Spurs path to a title will be difficult; but it was never going to be an easy path this year and I think it would have been foolish for anyone to think that it would be. At that, the fact that the path will be difficult doesn't make the task impossible.

If your point is that Spurs fans should believe that there's no chance for a championship without major changes, I think you're wrong.
:worthy: :worthy: :worthy:
FWD, he the big Kahuna. he the big Man Boss. FWD, el cajones.

thank you for speaking for the rest of us who believe.

[m33p0]

doubling Pau is idiotic by the way, Kobe or no Kobe.

[Holt's Cat]

We need like a FAQ for Ghost so that new posters can understand his posts in context, so that he doesn't seem like a total retard.

1. What makes Ghost post such whiny fucking posts every February?

Casper is an East Coast sports fan. Mid-season trades are a way of life for such fans. If a team in your favorite team's division makes a big move (let's say, the Phillies) then your team must make an even bigger move. Not that it matters that your team is ahead of them in the standings or that the Phillies haven't won jack shit in the postseason in forever, they must be topped because they are the Phillies and they are dominating the NYC area sports news cycle with their big splashy trade. Having the stones to stand pat is seen as foolish since every armchair GM and their dog now knows that the Phillies are going to win it all since they got player X and player X used to be awesome 5 years ago before the knee injury and putting on 50 pounds. It's as much an ego thing, something to brag about to your drinking buddies that your favorite team got so and so and they are going to win it all this year. Granted, that's baseball, but you get the idea.

2. Why is Ghost so miserable?

Part of it has to do with item #1, but some of it is purely psychological. East Coast sports fans must be miserable. If your favorite team wins a championship, well, WHY HAVEN"T THEY WON THE LAST FUCKING TEN CHAMPIONSHIPS?!! You knew how they could do it, but those FUCKING BUMS wouldn't pull the trigger. Just wait, the Giants are the toast of NYC last month, but that will all be forgotten after a couple of early season losses next season.

3. Why doesn't Ghost ease his pain with the drink, tobacco, sex, WWF, cannabis, and/or yoga?

He's tried.

[T Park]

although Bowen and Oberto can be cheated off of.

They're not good on offense.


Ask the Suns last year how that worked out for em.

It lost them the series leaving Bowen and Oberto open.

Leaving Oberto open also killed the Cavaliers and the Jazz.

Do you need a DVD to rewatch this shit so you can get reminded of it? Or did you just not watch all together.

[Ghost Writer]

You people keep your heads in the sand. Hopefully you'll suffocate.

I still think the Spurs have a chance, and if you've read this thread, I've given a much more reality-based case as to why than the typical crap spewed by the homers.

Your will as a Spurs fan won't get it done.

You guys think Bowen is doing a good job on Kobe when he still gets 30. Now Kobe doesn't have to shoot as much and can be selective in shots. That means better shots.

Gasol is good, by the way. And Bynum was having a breakout season.

But no worries.

We got Oberto.

[T Park]

You guys think Bowen is doing a good job on Kobe when he still gets 30

When he does it shooting 45 shots and the Spurs win by 10, yeah I'd say thats a good job.

Keep up with your 50 year old logic though.

[Ghost Writer]

When he does it shooting 45 shots and the Spurs win by 10, yeah I'd say thats a good job.

Keep up with your 50 year old logic though.
That was before he had options like Bynum and Gasol, T ard.

[T Park]

Kobe became less of a ball hog? When did he become a team player?

Ghost idiot.

[Ghost Writer]

Kobe became less of a ball hog? When did he become a team player?

Ghost idiot.
Do you follow the NBA or just train your eyes on the cotton candy vendor at Spurs home games?

Kobe didn't have a "team" in the past, hence him wanting out.

Since then, Bynum has emerged and Gasol is on board.

Why would he jack up all those shots when he can get his teammates involved (a trait he's developed all season)?

Figure it out.

[T Park]

Do you follow the NBA or just train your eyes on the cotton candy vendor at Spurs home games?



Do you? Or are your eyes fixated still on your Gary Payton blow up doll?

Kobe Bryant EVEN WITH his improved team is still lulling back into 1 on 1 Kobe from time to time. hes already had a couple games this year where he pouted and only shot 8 times.

Go look it up.

[Ghost Writer]

Do you? Or are your eyes fixated still on your Gary Payton blow up doll?

Kobe Bryant EVEN WITH his improved team is still lulling back into 1 on 1 Kobe from time to time. hes already had a couple games this year where he pouted and only shot 8 times.

Go look it up.
WTF?

Reality-based posts, please.

Either he is jacking up shots or not.

Show me where he's been pouty since the trade or shooting for a very low % or the Lakers have been losing as a result.

I'll wait.

[T Park]

WTF?

Reality-based posts, please.

Either he is jacking up shots or not.

Show me where he's been pouty since the trade or shooting for a very low % or the Lakers have been losing as a result.

I'll wait.


:lol

Dude beginning of Feb late January Jackson dropped "He needs to move the ball around" as he always does and Kobe went into pouty bitch mode.

Of course hes gonna be a team player he just got Pau, but wait till the first time they play someone worth a shit and Pau shrivels up like a spanish beno Udrih and you will see how much of a ball hog Kobe once again becomes.

Mark it down.

[Ghost Writer]

:lol

Dude beginning of Feb late January Jackson dropped "He needs to move the ball around" as he always does and Kobe went into pouty bitch mode.

Of course hes gonna be a team player he just got Pau, but wait till the first time they play someone worth a shit and Pau shrivels up like a spanish beno Udrih and you will see how much of a ball hog Kobe once again becomes.

Mark it down.
WTF do you think I am saying?

Kobe doesn't have to shoot as much now after the trade, retard.

[T Park]

He doesn't when pau is playing well.

When he goes into his wuss shell, wich is what he would do when Duncan guards him, whos gonna shoot?

Jordan Farmar? Luke Walton?

Yeah ok.

[Ghost Writer]

He doesn't when pau is playing well.

When he goes into his wuss shell, wich is what he would do when Duncan guards him, whos gonna shoot?

Jordan Farmar? Luke Walton?

Yeah ok.
Wake me up when Gasol starts to struggle.

They also got that Bynum guy coming back.


Yawn.

[T Park]

Wake me up when Gasol starts to struggle.

They also got that Bynum guy coming back.


Yawn.


Pay attention to the teams Gasol has gone against.

Not a big man defender amongst the bunch genius.

[fyatuk]

You guys think Bowen is doing a good job on Kobe when he still gets 30. Now Kobe doesn't have to shoot as much and can be selective in shots. That means better shots.


You honestly don't understand this? There's only so many shots available in a game. Let's say 75 as an out-of-the-blue number. If Kobe takes 30 shots to get 30 points, that leaves 45 shots for the other players. If he gets 30 points on 15 shots, that leaves 60 shots for other players.

That's how that works. A low percentage 30 points is worse for the Lakers than him only getting 20 points.

That's actually the Spurs gameplan against the Lakers. They want to force Kobe to beat them and keep him to a low pts/shot number with only 1 on 1 with Bowen. If his pts/shot is high, the Spurs start reacting to him and open up the rest of his team, if it's not, they clamp down and force him to keep shooting. Kobe getting 30 on 30 means the Spurs plan is working perfectly and his total points is nearly irrelevant.

But you are right, in that having other capable offensive weapons in Gasol and Bynum (who has had solid offensive games against the Spurs) means Kobe won't have to shoot as much. He should become more efficient, but lower scoring, which is good for the Lakers.

But seriously, if you can't see how pts/shot can affect the outcome of the game, study.

[DazedAndConfused]

Pay attention to the teams Gasol has gone against.

Not a big man defender amongst the bunch genius.

Yea that Dwight Howard guy is such a pussy.

[DazedAndConfused]

You honestly don't understand this? There's only so many shots available in a game. Let's say 75 as an out-of-the-blue number. If Kobe takes 30 shots to get 30 points, that leaves 45 shots for the other players. If he gets 30 points on 15 shots, that leaves 60 shots for other players.

That's how that works. A low percentage 30 points is worse for the Lakers than him only getting 20 points.

That's actually the Spurs gameplan against the Lakers. They want to force Kobe to beat them and keep him to a low pts/shot number with only 1 on 1 with Bowen. If his pts/shot is high, the Spurs start reacting to him and open up the rest of his team, if it's not, they clamp down and force him to keep shooting. Kobe getting 30 on 30 means the Spurs plan is working perfectly and his total points is nearly irrelevant.

But you are right, in that having other capable offensive weapons in Gasol and Bynum (who has had solid offensive games against the Spurs) means Kobe won't have to shoot as much. He should become more efficient, but lower scoring, which is good for the Lakers.

But seriously, if you can't see how pts/shot can affect the outcome of the game, study.

The problem the Lakers are gonna have when Bynum gets back is having too many options on offense.

[fyatuk]

The problem the Lakers are gonna have when Bynum gets back is having too many options on offense.

Not even close. The Lakers have 3 options on offense, just like they did before. The big difference is option#3 is better now. Phil Jackson doesn't really allow there to be more than 3 options. The other 2 people aren't really options, just trash pickup and desperation.

More likely than not, Bynum will get neglected now and Gasol and Kobe will be the only ones with double digit shot attempts on a regular basis.

[m33p0]

If the Spurs stand pat and can't get frontcourt help, can you help me figure out how we'll match up with:

Phoenix*
C - S. O'Neal MANU
PF - A. Stoudamire MANU


Los Angeles**
C - Bynum MANU
PF - P. Gasol MANU

:depressed

Other players can't be left unchecked if you are thinking double teams:
* S. Nash, R. Bell, G. Hill ALL MANU
** K. Bryant, L. Odom, D. Fisher ALL MANU


Now do you understand why Pop is p1ssed about the Gasol trade and why Kerr signed off on Shaq to Phoenix?


Question.
ANSWER: MANU

[DazedAndConfused]

Not even close. The Lakers have 3 options on offense, just like they did before. The big difference is option#3 is better now. Phil Jackson doesn't really allow there to be more than 3 options. The other 2 people aren't really options, just trash pickup and desperation.

More likely than not, Bynum will get neglected now and Gasol and Kobe will be the only ones with double digit shot attempts on a regular basis.

Wow talk about haterism. First of all the triangle is an equal-opportunity offense meaning there are no set plays run for anybody. Everyone is an option, and when Bynum gets back that will truly be the case. Odom, Fisher, Bryant, Gasol, and Bynum are all capable offensive players that can't be left alone. Your two "trash" options are Fisher and Odom, Fisher will kill you from 3pt land if you leave him open and if you give Odom an open lane to the basket he will make you pay. We are not the Spurs who start Oberto and Bowen, two players who are truly inept offensively.

As far as Gasol getting more touches than Bynum, that just makes sense. He is the better developed post player and that is what we brought him here for. Bynum can concentrate on doing what he does best, rebounding/dunks/alley oops/ and just wreaking havoc in the paint. We need Bynum more for his defense than his offense. Considering we are the #3 offense in the NBA outside of PHX and GSW I don't think this will be an issue, especially considering how our PPG hasn't really dropped since Bynum went down.

[fyatuk]

Wow talk about haterism. First of all the triangle is an equal-opportunity offense meaning there are no set plays run for anybody. Everyone is an option, and when Bynum gets back that will truly be the case. Odom, Fisher, Bryant, Gasol, and Bynum are all capable offensive players that can't be left alone. Your two "trash" options are Fisher and Odom, Fisher will kill you from 3pt land if you leave him open and if you give Odom an open lane to the basket he will make you pay. We are not the Spurs who start Oberto and Bowen, two players who are truly inept offensively.

As far as Gasol getting more touches than Bynum, that just makes sense. He is the better developed post player and that is what we brought him here for. Bynum can concentrate on doing what he does best, rebounding/dunks/alley oops/ and just wreaking havoc in the paint. We need Bynum more for his defense than his offense. Considering we are the #3 offense in the NBA outside of PHX and GSW I don't think this will be an issue, especially considering how our PPG hasn't really dropped since Bynum went down.

Not really. Phil Jackson's offenses have always been biased to 2 players. First it was Jordan and Pippen, then Shaq and Kobe, etc. Usually a third person chips in healthily, and that player might change on a night to night basis. Kobe will take 20-30% of the shots, Gasol 20-25%, Bynum probably 10-15%, leaving the rest with a small percentage each.

Everybody but Kobe and Gasol, and occassionally Bynum, are trash players in the sense that they aren't getting many shots unless the defense falls apart. I would expect Odom to move to the bench when Bynum comes back, which will probably be good for him.

My point wasn't that Bynum was going to get less touches than Gasol, but that his role in the offense would be less (he's less of an option now).

PS. Oberto is hardly inept on offense. He sets a good pick, has a pretty good short jumper and is excellent at cutting to the rim. Fisher doesn't do much more than Bowen on offense any more (park at the three point line and wait for a swing pass).

[ducks]

you know what
when tp was healthy the o looked fine
the o will be fine when tp is healthy PERIOD

[Cant_Be_Faded]

__ducks sucks__

[Ghost Writer]

"But you are right, in that having other capable offensive weapons in Gasol and Bynum (who has had solid offensive games against the Spurs) means Kobe won't have to shoot as much. He should become more efficient, but lower scoring, which is good for the Lakers." -- fyatuck


Thank you.

[Purple & Gold]

It looks like Ghost Writer here is the only one that's not drinking the silver and black Kool-Aid.

[T Park]

Yea that Dwight Howard guy is such a pussy.


You mean the guy that got called out for not playing defense?

[T Park]

It looks like Ghost Writer here is the only one that's not drinking the silver and black Kool-Aid.


What do you care.

Go away.

[Purple & Gold]

What do you care.

Go away.

Eat some more doughnuts :blah :blah :blah :blah

[smeagol]

It looks like Ghost Writer here is the only one that's not drinking the silver and black Kool-Aid.

Who was that idiot that said Laker Fans increase the IQ of this board . . . :rolleyes

[Purple & Gold]

What rock did you crawl out from smeagol?

[smeagol]

What rock did you crawl out from smeagol?

Aren't you the stupid LakerFan who likes to suck on Hugo Chavez' dick?

[Purple & Gold]

Aren't you the stupid LakerFan who likes to suck on Hugo Chavez' dick?

Hey smeagol did you throw a hissy fit after the last elections in Argentina?

[Purple & Gold]

Aren't you the stupid LakerFan who likes to suck on Hugo Chavez' dick?

Aren't you the Pinochet and Videla supporter?

[smeagol]

Hey smeagol did you throw a hissy fit after the last elections in Argentina?
Yes.

I hate corrupt presidents

[smeagol]

Aren't you the Pinochet and Videla supporter?
Never supported Videla.

So how do you feel when Lakers ripped of the league, getting Gasol for a hotdog and two diet sodas?

[Purple & Gold]

Never supported Videla.

So how do you feel when Lakers ripped of the league, getting Gasol for a hotdog and two diet sodas?

It was nice almost as good as the spurs tanking for Duncan and getting Finley on the Mavs dime. Although the 4 first rounders did hurt. But it's happy days in Lakerland again. :elephant :elephant

[smeagol]

It was nice almost as good as the spurs tanking for Duncan and getting Finley on the Mavs dime. Although the 4 first rounders did hurt. But it's happy days in Lakerland again. :elephant :elephant

Don't get too exited Gasol alone ain't enough to propel the Lakers to a title. The West continues to be the toughest conference.

I predict a second round exit for Kobe and crowd.

So, how's your champion of freedom doing these days? Persecuting more opposition members? Shutting down more TV channels tyhat don't agree with him? Becoming firnedlier with Iran? Giving away money to Castro and Morales?

[DazedAndConfused]

Gasol+Bynum+Kobe is though.

[Go For Tree]

Hellz Yeah!!!


ummm hellz noooooo. 12+6+9 is an average of 9. how is that well above an average of 9 exactly?

[Go For Tree]

To be real, Im upset with Pop for complaining about it. If someone wants to trade for the future of their team then they should. His punka$$ know he needs to trade but they weak up tight a$$es just dont want to pull the trigga. That was a bitch move to me. That sniching like a hoe because you didnt get him! I wish I could call his punk pussy a$$ and tell him its your move hoe! Study long study wrong as we say in my hood! :fro


??????ANGLISH MOTHA EFFA!!!!! ANGLISH!!!!!????????

[Purple & Gold]

Don't get too exited Gasol alone ain't enough to propel the Lakers to a title. The West continues to be the toughest conference.

I predict a second round exit for Kobe and crowd.

Actually Gasol/Kobe/Bynum and some great role players in Odom/Fisher/Farmar/etc. are enough to propel the Lakers to a title. Once again spur fan forgets that the Lakers have other players than Gasol.


So, how's your champion of freedom doing these days? Persecuting more opposition members? Shutting down more TV channels tyhat don't agree with him? Becoming firnedlier with Iran? Giving away money to Castro and Morales?

As for Chavez if you would have read what I said before, there are many things that I like about a socialist govt. and many things I don't. Chavez has been crossing that line as of late and I certainly don't agree with many things he has done. The best form is a mix of both. But if you wanna debate more about that, go ahead and make a thread in the political forum. I'll be sure to check it and let you know what I think.

[Holt's Cat]

Naturally a Lakers fan would be a socialist.

[Purple & Gold]

Naturally a spur fan would be a pussy.

[T Park]

Naturally a Lakers fan would be a socialist.

The whole state is full of em, not a shocker there.

[smeagol]

The whole state is full of em, not a shocker there.
:lol :lol

[DazedAndConfused]

Only on ST can you take a thread about playoff matchups and have it turn into a debate about socialism in Latin America.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Only on ST can you take a thread about playoff matchups and have it turn into a debate about socialism in Latin America.
:toast
SpursTalk, like none other.

[cash459]

You people keep your heads in the sand. Hopefully you'll suffocate.

I still think the Spurs have a chance, and if you've read this thread, I've given a much more reality-based case as to why than the typical crap spewed by the homers.

Your will as a Spurs fan won't get it done.

You guys think Bowen is doing a good job on Kobe when he still gets 30. Now Kobe doesn't have to shoot as much and can be selective in shots. That means better shots.

Gasol is good, by the way. And Bynum was having a breakout season.

But no worries.

We got Oberto.


WOW...i can't believe how ridiculous these posts are getting....

Kobe scores 30 b/c the spurs allow him to score, b/c they know that no matter what he IS going to get his points....with Bowen playing consistent D on him, it limits what he can do, options, passes all of that. Just because Kobe has other options doesnt mean that he is always going to be able to make that necessary pass or create a shot.

and you said that Bynum WAS having a breakout season....NOBODY knows what or how he is going to play after ths knee. Plus, not to mention how much his rhythm will be off.

Gasol is a whole 'nother thread.....

and as much as i dislike Oberto, he came through in the palyoffs last year, because just like you, people undersestimate what he has the possibility to do.