Trade Idea - Rescueing the Kidd deal

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Real Trade ID #4505517

SAS out - Barry + Cash (to cover pro-rated additional salary of Barry over George + Diop)
SAS In - Devean George, Diop

DAL out - Stackhouse, Diop, Harris, George, Ager +Cash (same as before) + Picks (2008 and 2010 firsts)
DAL in - Kidd

NJ out - Kidd
NJ in - Barry, Stackhouse, Harris, Ager + Picks (2008 and 2010 firsts)


Why for DAL - It's the deal that they agreed to previously for Kidd
Why for NJ - George and Diop were rent a player expiring contracts. They have been replaced with another expiring contract. SA is covering their slightly expanded payroll...
Why for SAS - temporary rental of Diop as an extra big for the Western conference playoffs (Lakers, Jazz, Suns). Also reduces the payroll enough for them to collect the lux tax distribution. Also, Devean George might be a nice extra for the playoff run.
Why for Devean George - I think his objection was about going to a non-contender. Here he ends up in SA, which is a) close enough to Dallas that he can stay in touch with his family, and b) Gives him as good a ring shot as he would have in Dallas.

Finally, just as it is proposed that Stackhouse be bought out by NJ, so might Barry, to return to Dallas and SA respectively. Resigning Barry at the minimum would not push SA over the lux tax distribution trigger. I also suspect that the lux tax distribution would cover both the costs of re-signing Barry after 30 days, and the cash sent to NJ to cover his buyout.

Now this is what the FO should be running with... Diop is as useful for us as Foster or Kurt Thomas. And this deal costs us less. Also, we end up with Diop's bird rights (ie. we don't have to spend MLE to resign him) for the offseason.

[FromWayDowntown]

Why it won't happen -- Dallas and San Antonio trading with each other at this point? Please.

[T Park]

Why would Dallas give the Spurs a shot blocking bigman that could guard Shaq and Bynum and help out against their own team?

[nkdlunch]

if we think harder maybe we can end up with Kidd and Dallas with Barry?

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to FromWayDowntown and T Park. If they want to get Kidd deal done, they need to find an acceptable destination for Devean George. No other contender, which is what I think Devean wants, wants this deal to happen. SA does. They really are short on options at that point...This rescues their deal at essentially no cost to either team. Their isn't going to be a better deal.

Dallas does it to improve their team's chances in the playoffs, and they hope that some other western power takes us out before we meet up. They clearly are willing to accept a degraded chance against the spurs, or they think that getting Kidd will make them better against us as well the rest of the league. They like their chances with Kidd rather than Harris.

[sabar]

Dallas won't make us better.

[SenorSpur]

Please. THe Spurs don't need to help "bail" the Mavs out of their mess.

I am warming up more and more to the idea the Spurs landing Diop. Regardless of where he ends up, he'll be an UFA at the end of this season and therefore can pick his destination. Perhaps he's built up enough resentment for the Mavs to want to leave.

Regardless of the trade status, I'd love to see the Spurs go after him to help "shore up" their frontline. With Elson and Oberto in various stages of "sucking", they could use the presence of a defensive-minded 5 man to help out Tim.

[T Park]

Regardless of the trade status, I'd love to see the Spurs go after him to help "shore up" their frontline. With Elson and Oberto in various stages of "sucking", they could use the presence of a defensive-minded 5 man to help out Tim.


Oberto = Diop >>>>>>Elson

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to FromWayDowntown and T Park. If they want to get Kidd deal done, they need to find an acceptable destination for Devean George. No other contender, which is what I think Devean wants, wants this deal to happen. SA does. They really are short on options at that point...This rescues their deal at essentially no cost to either team. Their isn't going to be a better deal.

Dallas does it to improve their team's chances in the playoffs, and they hope that some other western power takes us out before we meet up. They clearly are willing to accept a degraded chance against the spurs, or they think that getting Kidd will make them better against us as well the rest of the league. They like their chances with Kidd rather than Harris.

I'm going to expand on this, just to make the logic clear.

The Kidd to dallas deal essentially mortaged Dallas's future for a shot to win now. They proposed to trade their young PG, 2 of their next 3 1st round picks. This for a 34 year old guard. And putting themselves back in salary cap hell. Clearly, they think that the resulting team could win it all; otherwise, it's a complete waste. Winning it all implies either a) beating the Spurs or b) beating a team that beat the Spurs. Conclusion they think that getting Kidd at this price, Diop, Harris, etc. makes them a good enough team to beat SA. Including getting rid of Diop. Now then, they can't value Diop that much; otherwise they wouldn't have been willing to deal him. Assuming therefore that they get Kidd, they probably think they can beat SA even if SA has Diop. Therefore, it makes sense for them to use SA as the lowest cost fixer to make their deal work.

[FromWayDowntown]

to FromWayDowntown and T Park. If they want to get Kidd deal done, they need to find an acceptable destination for Devean George. No other contender, which is what I think Devean wants, wants this deal to happen. SA does. They really are short on options at that point...This rescues their deal at essentially no cost to either team. Their isn't going to be a better deal.

Dallas does it to improve their team's chances in the playoffs, and they hope that some other western power takes us out before we meet up. They clearly are willing to accept a degraded chance against the spurs, or they think that getting Kidd will make them better against us as well the rest of the league. They like their chances with Kidd rather than Harris.

My understanding is that one big stumbling block to trading Devean George is that a trade extinguishes his Bird Rights, whether he is traded to a contender or to a D-League team. A trade to a contender might soften that blow, but this would seem to be as much about economics as it is about finding another chance to win a ring. If that's true, then it doesn't matter whether its the Spurs or the 1996 Bulls, Devean is going to block the trade.

I'm sure that Cuban is working furiously to find a way to make this work somehow -- few front office people are as good with coming up with creative trade scenarios as he is (although not always scenarios that benefit his club) and if anyone can find a solution to the problem, Cuban can. But I'm also fairly certain that the Spurs are the last club Cuban would call to serve as a facilitator in that situation.

If it happens, you will have made me show my ass here. But I don't see this scenario having a snowball's chance in hell.

[remingtonbo2001]

WTF.. I thought the deal was back on.

[Phil Hellmuth]

leave the Heat games, it cured my insomnia.

[himat]

Devean George and Diop to the Spurs for Barry? Too lopsided

[baseline bum]

Dallas would never trade a bigman to a conference rival; especially to their most bitter rival.

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My understanding is that one big stumbling block to trading Devean George is that a trade extinguishes his Bird Rights, whether he is traded to a contender or to a D-League team. A trade to a contender might soften that blow, but this would seem to be as much about economics as it is about finding another chance to win a ring. If that's true, then it doesn't matter whether its the Spurs or the 1996 Bulls, Devean is going to block the trade.

I'm sure that Cuban is working furiously to find a way to make this work somehow -- few front office people are as good with coming up with creative trade scenarios as he is (although not always scenarios that benefit his club) and if anyone can find a solution to the problem, Cuban can. But I'm also fairly certain that the Spurs are the last club Cuban would call to serve as a facilitator in that situation.

If it happens, you will have made me show my ass here. But I don't see this scenario having a snowball's chance in hell.

Devean's bird rights are worth squat anyhow. The only person who can actually hold them is Cuban, and do you really think Cubes is going to pay Devean after he's screwed up Cubes' big trade? The only way those work out for Devean is if the Mavs win the championship w/o significant trades. At that point he can claim to have saved Cuban from himself. Even that might be unnacceptable to Cubes' ego...

[T Park]

Doesn't matter. They still aren't trading a good defensive bigman to the Spurs.

[FromWayDowntown]

Devean's bird rights are worth squat anyhow. The only person who can actually hold them is Cuban, and do you really think Cubes is going to pay Devean after he's screwed up Cubes' big trade? The only way those work out for Devean is if the Mavs win the championship w/o significant trades. At that point he can claim to have saved Cuban from himself. Even that might be unnacceptable to Cubes' ego...

Frankly, I think that realization might be precisely why Devean is perhaps showing a willingness to re-think his decision on this one. I have my suspicions that this deal might get done over the break or perhaps even on Monday to avoid the logisitcal nightmare involved in an elected All-Star changing conferences after the vote and before the game.

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Frankly, I think that realization might be precisely why Devean is perhaps showing a willingness to re-think his decision on this one. I have my suspicions that this deal might get done over the break or perhaps even on Monday to avoid the logisitcal nightmare involved in an elected All-Star changing conferences after the vote and before the game.

If he rethinks, great. At that point we should go after getting Diop from the nets on the cheap; just like I proposed in the original Kidd trade thread. It gets Cuban's ego out of the way. Then it's just a matter of making Rod Thorn happy.

[LEN BIAS 4EVER]

How in the hell is it allowed that Stackhouse be allowed to sit out 30 days and then return back to Dallas ???? I thought the league put in a rule 2 seasons ago to prevent these situations from occuring. If not then it should be a mandate that a player traded from a team cannot play for that team the rest of the season.

And how about the talk of Van Horn replacing George in the deal or the fact that Aaron McKie was in the Gasol trade. To me this strikes at the integrity of the game and shouldn't be allowed. I mean seriously, will it now become a strategy for teams to have players that have unofically retired but haven't had their rights renounced on the books. And hey, if the Nets are looking for these type of contracts what about the Spurs and Glenn Robinson ?


I agree about talking to the Nets about Diop though, I would love to add him to the roster. Would Glenn Robinson and our upgrading the Nets 2nd round pick (assuming one of the three the Spurs have is better than theirs) for Diop work ???

[T Park]

I thought after the Gary Payton debacle they added in some rules on resigning with the team that traded you.

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I thought after the Gary Payton debacle they added in some rules on resigning with the team that traded you.

Indeed, there were. That's why he has to wait 30 days after being bought out... Payton did it in what, 3 days?

[LEN BIAS 4EVER]

30 whole days ???? oh, ok then that really takes care of the situation. I would think that the rule would be that said player cannot return to the team that just dealt him until the next season began. So for instance, if Stackhouse goes to New jersey( and it's gonna happen) then he cannot play for the Mavs the rest of this season, playoffs included. If they can deal him to anyone else great or if they cut him he is free to sign with another contending team, just not Dallas. Otherwise the rule is a joke.....