Gap between Bryant and the rest of the pack and it is not particularly close

[LakeShow]

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2008/01/nba-coast-to-coast-crew-hands-out-first.html

Anthony, Legler, Rose and the rest of the basketball fans in America could all agree on one thing: the Miami Heat have authored the worst performance. Anthony minced no words on this subject, calling the Heat "the most embarrassing team in professional sports in America." That about sums it up. The only thing that I can add is that we need about a five year moratorium on anyone trying to even suggest that Dwyane Wade is as good as Kobe Bryant. I understand that Wade is battling some injuries but so is Bryant and every other top player in the league; Wade is healthy enough to play over 38 mpg and score 25 ppg, so his physical condition is not the primary problem in Miami. Last year, some people questioned the significance of Kobe Bryant's string of 40 and 50 point games that carried the Lakers into the playoffs, saying that he put up numbers against bad teams and that the Lakers still did not finish with a great record. Wade and Miami are showing just how hard it is to carry a team singlehandedly the way that Bryant did. I can't picture a Kobe Bryant team losing 15 games in a row. In the 2005-06 season, Bryant outscored Dallas--the eventual Western Conference champions--62-61 in the first three quarters of a blowout Lakers victory. We all know that Kobe dropped 81 on Toronto a couple years ago, carrying the Lakers from a double digit deficit to a double digit win. Wade has had three 40 point games this year, all losses. It is not easy to put up big scoring nights with a shaky supporting cast and it is even more difficult to lead your team to wins. Wade did well when he had Shaquille O'Neal drawing double coverage in the 2006 NBA Finals but this season is providing an excellent opportunity for people to understand the difference between Bryant and the other top shooting guards in the NBA; there is a gap between Bryant and the rest of the pack and it is not particularly close (small forward LeBron James is the second best player in the league right now and he has closed the gap on Bryant this season).

[Cry Havoc]

I'd still take LeBron and Duncan ahead of Kobe.

I will readily admit that Kobe is probably the best individual player to come along in a long time.

However, this is not an individual game, and Duncan still has more authority on the defensive end of the court.

It will be interesting to see how Kobe reacts with his newfound sense of camaraderie when the Lakers hit their first snag in the playoffs.

[LakeShow]

I'd still take LeBron and Duncan ahead of Kobe.

I will readily admit that Kobe is probably the best individual player to come along in a long time.

However, this is not an individual game, and Duncan still has more authority on the defensive end of the court.

It will be interesting to see how Kobe reacts with his newfound sense of camaraderie when the Lakers hit their first snag in the playoffs.

I couldn't pick either one of those players ahead of kobe but they are great players. 62 and 81 points in a game, both wins, puts kobe in a league of his own.

You kind of appreciate what he was able to accomplish with a bad team now that others can not come close to what he did with the Lakers and the fact that some were calling Wade better. Wade can't even win a game by himself in the east.

[Allanon]

Kobe, Duncan and LeBron are the best current players..you can't really rank them because they play different positions and have different skill sets. They'll all go down in the Top10 of all time.

[hater]

Kobe is only slightly better than Lebron. I'd pick Lebron too over Kobe if starting a team.

Wade sucks, he's not even in the top 10 in the league.

[ChumpDumper]

Picture of the author (not kidding):

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/203/6416/640/2005_0615DavidPic00722.jpg

[Allanon]

If I were to anchor a team that wants to win this year or next year, I go with Kobe or Duncan.

If I want a championship team in 5 years, I go with Lebron, he's still a bit raw and lags behind Kobe and Duncan in Defense.

[exstatic]

I couldn't pick either one of those players ahead of kobe but they are great players. 62 and 81 points in a game, both wins, puts kobe in a league of his own.

You kind of appreciate what he was able to accomplish with a bad team now that others can not come close to what he did with the Lakers and the fact that some were calling Wade better. Wade can't even win a game by himself in the east.
LeBron took a bad team to the Finals. Case closed.

[LakeShow]

No doubt, Lebron is the future. What he's doing in cleveland could rival what Kobe has done in LA under similar circumstances but he hasn't brought it like kobe brought it every game with the lakers. Lebrons the future, Kobe's the Present!

[mavsfan1000]

Lebron is outplaying Kobe. Good try though.

[ducks]

hughes is better then what people think when healthy
heck hughes went for 40 the other night
that is close to what manu did the other night

in the west where kobe plays there may be a 50+ win team that does not make the playoffs and in the east there maybe 2 teams that are not even above 500

[ducks]

LeBron took a bad team to the Finals. Case closed.
and jason kidd did to but did not face a 50+ win team to get there
case closed

[TheNextGen]

LeBron took a bad team to the Finals. Case closed.

You think Lebron would have beaten the suns that year? Case Opened.

[O-Factor]

Kobe is the most talented INDIVIDUAL performer.

[O-Factor]

No doubt, Lebron is the future. What he's doing in cleveland could rival what Kobe has done in LA under similar circumstances but he hasn't brought it like kobe brought it every game with the lakers. Lebrons the future, Kobe's the Present!

Kobe had Shaq while he was still dominant though. Shaq is the reason Kobe has championships. Shaq led those teams. Kobe was just a good side kick. Both Lebron and Kobe have to prove they can lead a team to a championship.

[mavsfan1000]

Kobe is the most talented INDIVIDUAL performer.
Does court vision count as part of talent? I think Kobe is willing to pass but his confidence at hitting targets isn't as high as Lebron's is.

[LakeShow]

Kobe had Shaq while he was still dominant though. Shaq is the reason Kobe has championships. Shaq led those teams. Kobe was just a good side kick. Both Lebron and Kobe have to prove they can lead a team to a championship.

Kobe played just a big a part in those championships as did shaq. I do agree that leading their team to a championship would top all. Right now, kobe is closer to doing that than lebron is now that Kobe has a good team around him and he is making his team mates better.

[exstatic]

You think Lebron would have beaten the suns that year? Case Opened.
He didn't beat us. What's your point? Finals >>>> Kobe's annual first round flameout.

[remingtonbo2001]

Difference between Duncan and Kobe....

Duncan makes those around him better players.

The same cannot be said of Kobe.

[LakeShow]

With Kobe, the Dream team wins the gold medal and dominates the competition. Without Kobe, they win nothing! You can't say that about any other player in the NBA.

With Kobe, the west all stars rout the east just like last season, without? Well you know the story!

[KidCongo]

No doubt, Lebron is the future. What he's doing in cleveland could rival what Kobe has done in LA under similar circumstances but he hasn't brought it like kobe brought it every game with the lakers. Lebrons the future, Kobe's the Present!

bullshit lebron brings it every game

[BonnerDynasty]

What I don't get is how Lebron's shot can be so hot and cold. He can hit ridiculous game winning 3's one night and then not hit a J the next.

Duncan
Kobe
Lebron

Kobe is the best in the league but Duncan is just so valuable to TEAM.

imo.

[remingtonbo2001]

With Kobe, the Dream team wins the gold medal and dominates the competition. Without Kobe, they win nothing! You can't say that about any other player in the NBA.

Uhhh...Manu Ginobili.

BTW...Kobe hasn't gotten his gold medal yet.
To my knowledge, he doesn't have any prior record of competing in the Olympics, so....we're drawing this from the qualifications tourney this past summer.

Tim would have had his in 2000 had he not injured his knee.
So, he has to deal with a bronze.
David accomplished 3 medals.

I wouldn't get too cocky, otherwise you might be watching Kobe on the sidelines (just like tonight)

When puts on the USA jersey I will root for him. I hope his figure isn't an issue at that time.

[DazedAndConfused]

Please stop comparing Manu fucking Ginobli to Kobe Bryant. They aren't even on the same level, anyone who thinks so is a stupid fucking Spur's homer. Manu is not a franchise player. He is very good, and easily an All-Star caliber player, but he could never carry a team on his back the way Kobe and Lebron have had to.

This All-Star game made it very evident how much Kobe brings to the table. Nobody on the WC team stepped up outside of CP3. If Kobe were playing you can bet your ass the final score wouldn't be what it was. Kobe IS the best player in the game, hands down. In the clutch there is nobody else I would rather have handling the ball.

[sprrs]

Please stop comparing Manu fucking Ginobli to Kobe Bryant. They aren't even on the same level, anyone who thinks so is a stupid fucking Spur's homer. Manu is not a franchise player. He is very good, and easily an All-Star caliber player, but he could never carry a team on his back the way Kobe and Lebron have had to.

That's the point. Don't use the olympics as a bearing of who's the greater player.

[Findog]

bringing up the olympics to pimp manu :lmao

Manu is awesome, but agreed that he is no franchise player. If he's your best player, you'd be lucky to go 45-37.

[Bob Lanier]

bringing up the olympics to pimp manu :lmao

Manu is awesome, but agreed that he is no franchise player. If he's your best player, you'd be lucky to go 45-37.
So he's about on Wade's level? Nearly at James's level?

[Findog]

So he's about on Wade's level? Nearly at James's level?

Okay, I take that back, Manu as your best player shouldn't get you better than a .500 record at best.

[Bob Lanier]

Again, that places him at Wade's level.

Which seems reasonable to me. I'm not a Ginobili fan but, for off guards at least, the gap between Bryant and the rest of the pack is a sizable one, and he's as good as any of the other runners-up.

[Findog]

Again, that places him at Wade's level.

Which seems reasonable to me. I'm not a Ginobili fan but, for off guards at least, the gap between Bryant and the rest of the pack is a sizable one, and he's as good as any of the other runners-up.

I think Wade is highly overrated. I think he's better than Manu, but not by that much. I'll always wonder how different the Finals would've been if Avery hadn't double-teamed Shaq constantly and focused his defense towards Wade instead.

[DarkReign]

Starting a team tomorrow, I take LeBron.

But if the 3 guys were tha same age today, Duncan...hands down.

Really, can you go wrong with any of the three? I dont think so. Theyre the 3 best players in the league, with Kobe and TD being exceptional defensive players as well.

Bron will pull that together sooner than later, IMO. Once he does, hes the best without question.

[Cry Havoc]

Starting a team tomorrow, I take LeBron.

But if the 3 guys were tha same age today, Duncan...hands down.

Really, can you go wrong with any of the three? I dont think so. Theyre the 3 best players in the league, with Kobe and TD being exceptional defensive players as well.

Bron will pull that together sooner than later, IMO. Once he does, hes the best without question.

LeBron has already become a much better defender this year. He's saying in front of his man and making plays. I'd say he's already an above average defender.

[LakeShow]

Uhhh...Manu Ginobili.

BTW...Kobe hasn't gotten his gold medal yet.
To my knowledge, he doesn't have any prior record of competing in the Olympics, so....we're drawing this from the qualifications tourney this past summer.

Tim would have had his in 2000 had he not injured his knee.
So, he has to deal with a bronze.
David accomplished 3 medals.

I wouldn't get too cocky, otherwise you might be watching Kobe on the sidelines (just like tonight)

When puts on the USA jersey I will root for him. I hope his figure isn't an issue at that time.

Manu has no business in this conversation besides he beat a USA team without Kobe which is what i meant with that statement. Kobe locks him up like he did barbosa and the USA wins.

Tim played in the 2004 Olympics, I know spurs fans would like to forget that because it was a pathetic performance by Timmie. Lebron was also on that team.

Kobe instantly made the dream team better with his presence is all I wanted to say with that statement. He even makes the best, better! Kobe can do it anyway that is needed. If he has to score 81 points for his team to win, he does it. If he has to lock up on the opponents best scorer for his team to win, he does. There is not a more complete player in the league than Kobe Bryant!

[exstatic]

I think Wade is highly overrated. I think he's better than Manu, but not by that much. I'll always wonder how different the Finals would've been if Avery hadn't double-teamed Shaq constantly and focused his defense towards Wade instead.
How is Wade better than Manu? HE CAN'T FUCKING SHOOT. Of the top 10 overall guards, he has the biggest hole in his game: he can't shoot the 3 ball. He's terrible from beyond the arc...Grant Hill terrible.

[Findog]

How is Wade better than Manu? HE CAN'T FUCKING SHOOT. Of the top 10 overall guards, he has the biggest hole in his game: he can't shoot the 3 ball. He's terrible from beyond the arc...Grant Hill terrible.

He's more effective than Manu because he gets like 13 FTAs per game. Defenders have to back off of him because of the respect he gets from the referees.

[exstatic]

He's more effective than Manu because he gets like 13 FTAs per game. Defenders have to back off of him because of the respect he gets from the referees.
So referees make him a better player? I agree with whoever said that AJ should have had the Mavs back off him in 2006.

Manu has no holes in his game. Wade does. In addition to his shitty shooting, he's a fucking turnover machine.

Other than age, Manu > Wade.

[stretch]

With Kobe, the west all stars rout the east just like last season, without? Well you know the story!
That is the worst fucking example ever. No one gives a shit about the All-Star game.

I've never met someone who more consistently uses shitty arguments as you.

[LakeShow]

That is the worst fucking example ever. No one gives a shit about the All-Star game.

I've never met someone who more consistently uses shitty arguments as you.


:lol Okay Inchworm, I have some time on my hands. It was obvious that both teams were trying to win the game. Last season Kobe played and he was MVP, the game was not even close. Yesterday the West obviously missed his 4th quarter heroics to lose the game. It is, what it is! Why in your simple mind is that not a valid point?

[stretch]

:lol Okay Inchworm, I have some time on my hands. It was obvious that both teams were trying to win the game. Last season Kobe played and he was MVP, the game was not even close. Yesterday the West obviously missed his 4th quarter heroics to lose the game. It is, what it is! Why in your simple mind is that not a valid point?

You MUST be joking...

Let me ask you something... If people actually cared about the game, then why the fuck wasn't Kobe out on the floor when the West "needed" him?

GTFO

[LakeShow]

You MUST be joking...

Let me ask you something... If people actually cared about the game, then why the fuck wasn't Kobe out on the floor when the West "needed" him?

GTFO

What hole have you been in for the last week or two? He was hurt!!!! Damn, I should have known you were just talking out of your ass as usual. I should not have even responded!

[monosylab1k]

What hole have you been in for the last week or two? He was hurt!!!!
then why did he play at all?

[LakeShow]

then why did he play at all?

The league forced him to participate because he played the last game before he was diagnosed with a tear. League rules forbid players who were voted in to not participate if they are healthy enough to play the last game prior to the all star game. I'm sure if he would have had surgery he would have been excused but since he choses not to, he was forced to play.

[Findog]

So referees make him a better player? I agree with whoever said that AJ should have had the Mavs back off him in 2006.

Manu has no holes in his game. Wade does. In addition to his shitty shooting, he's a fucking turnover machine.

Other than age, Manu > Wade.

Ugh! I can't believe I'm defending Dwyane Wade. Yes, he's shooting 46% from the floor this year, that's with being banged-up* and a shitty-ass supporting cast that allows defenses to key in on him. The last two years when healthy he shot 49%, and that's a healthy mix of drives to the basket and jumpshots, so don't tell me he can't shoot. You can quibble with his shot selection and say he's not as pure a shooter as Manu, but when he's healthy, he scores pretty efficiently. I have a hard time faulting him for what he's doing this year, including the increased turnovers, when he's still not 100% healthy and he has to do everything for that team, and has to handle the ball more without a reliable PG. Get back to me when Manu is the best player on a team that wins a title.

* An argument can be made that Manu is more reliable and better than Wade because of durability concerns, and I'd certainly rather have Manu than Wade just for this year, but all things being equal, I don't think the Spurs are worse off over the long haul if the two were to switch places, nor do I think Miami is better. If we're talking pure ability, give me Wade over Manu by a hair.

[stretch]

The league forced him to participate because he played the last game before he was diagnosed with a tear. League rules forbid players who were voted in to not participate if they are healthy enough to play the last game prior to the all star game. I'm sure if he would have had surgery he would have been excused but since he choses not to, he was forced to play.
If it was a game that mattered, he would have played in crunch time, hurt or not. It's what all the great players do.

So either it was a game that did not matter, or Kobe simply is not among the great players, because he refuses to play in a game that "matters".

[monosylab1k]

Manu has legitimate championships and no shoulder injuries needing wheelchair assistance. Advantage Manu.

[Findog]

Manu has legitimate championships and no shoulder injuries needing wheelchair assistance. Advantage Manu.

No doubt, I like Manu more, and I despise Wade, but there was nothing illegitimate about Miami's title. If we're going to admonish Suns fans that the suspensions didn't ultimately alter the outcome of their series, then I don't see how we can make the same argument because of how poorly Game 5 of the Finals was officiated in our case. Take G5 away and the Heat are still up 3-2.

[monosylab1k]

No doubt, I like Manu more, and I despise Wade, but there was nothing illegitimate about Miami's title. If we're going to admonish Suns fans that the suspensions didn't ultimately alter the outcome of their series, then I don't see how we can make the same argument because of how poorly Game 5 of the Finals was officiated in our case. Take G5 away and the Heat are still up 3-2.
I'm just trying to piss off that Heat fan troll.

[Findog]

I'm just trying to piss off that Heat fan troll.

OMG, I can't believe that Flo Rida posts on Spurstalk. We have a celebrity in the house.

[monosylab1k]

haha

[ApolloCreed]

Wade, Lebron >>> Kobe.

[Spuradicator]

With Kobe, the Dream team wins the gold medal and dominates the competition. Without Kobe, they win nothing! You can't say that about any other player in the NBA.

With Kobe, the west all stars rout the east just like last season, without? Well you know the story!


WOW, what an incredibly weak argument! :lmao

[Spuradicator]

Being a leader is just not in Kobe's genes. We'd of seen it by now.

Im really hoping for a Suns/Lakers matchup in the playoffs. Only because of Shaq and Kobe. I'd like to see a hard foul on Kobe going to to the rim by Shaq. Kobe will fail to lead his team to even the conference championship this year. Hate to break it to ya Laker fan.

[Medvedenko]

I love these fucking arguements every damn year. Same old, same old...first it was Vince Carter, than Tmac, than Wade, now Lebron.....the only constant is Kobe. I'll let you guys argue but I'll take GM's, Coaches, and other players opinions over you guys any day.

[Allanon]

The beauty of this all is that the stars are aligned for this question to be answered once and for all.

If Kobe can't get to the WCF this year, he will fade and forever be second fiddle to Shaq, Wade and LeBron. BUT, if he gets to the WCF, his legend will grow and the Wade comparisons will be replaced with Jordan comparisons.

Simple as that, by June we'll know.

[KidCongo]

I love these fucking arguements every damn year. Same old, same old...first it was Vince Carter, than Tmac, than Wade, now Lebron.....the only constant is Kobe. I'll let you guys argue but I'll take GM's, Coaches, and other players opinions over you guys any day.

wow LeBron is still improving...and already in top 3 including Duncan