Back on again, Hassell, Van Horn, Diop, Harris, Ager for Kidd and Allen

[T Park]

Kidd to Mavs again (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3250819)

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Good news!

[T Park]

Stackhouse and George not going makes this a much better trade for the Mavericks.

Still makes em weaker vs the Spurs though.

[Mister Sinister]

Hallelujah!

[pad300]

Time to phone up Thorn

Elson, Spurs 2008 1st, Cash

for

Diop, Mavs 2010 1st

[Holt's Cat]

Diop would not be a bad pickup, especially if Elson is who is going out.

[baseline bum]

This deal's even better IMO. This takes Dallas out of the Mike Miller sweepstakes, since they had to move Van Horn's deal. Stackhouse was going back in 30 days anyways, and Devean George and Trenton Hassell are pretty equal scrubs.

[ducks]

Diop would not be a bad pickup, especially if Elson is who is going out.
how long is diop's contract
ian and spitter are coming in next year with rookie contracts :smokin

[ludda]

well it was a point of no return for both teams. Since inevitable.

Are the Mavs still getting Antoine Wright?

[Findog]

Yes, good news. Time will tell if this is good for Dallas. There's little consensus on whether it makes the Mavs better or not, but Spurs fans clearly think some of the matchup problems Diop and Harris bring are now eliminated.

[Findog]

well it was a point of no return for both teams. Since inevitable.

Are the Mavs still getting Antoine Wright?

That's what I'd like to know, as well as Darrell Armstrong. And yeah, I was against the idea of acquiring Kidd because Harris and Diop are so vital against San Antonio, but the team's chemistry would've been shot if it had been called off.

[ludda]

I would love the Spurs to get Diop. For some reason he's been in Averys doghouse the whole year, but if we could get him thatd be great.

[T Park]

Agreed. Would Thorn though trade a big like Diop to the Spurs?

Doubtfull...

[Findog]

Agreed. Would Thorn though trade a big like Diop to the Spurs?

Doubtfull...

He has an expiring contract, so probably not, that's why the Nets wanted him included.

[ludda]

The Nets don't really have use for Diop do they? It could be possible....

[Ronaldo McDonald]

if this trade happens the west becomes even tougher. damn. it's going to be the best playoffs ever.

just like every other spurs fan i'd love to see the spurs to well in the playoffs and hopefully win the championship, but damn i sure as hell would not mind a dirk and kidd vs. nash and stoudamire and shaq battle.

[Findog]

The Nets don't really have use for Diop do they? It could be possible....

Only if you have an expiring contract to send back.

[T Park]

They got tougher against other teams other than the Spurs.

Good for the Spurs as well

[Bruno]

Mavs will have George instead of Hassel, it's basically as good as the nixed trade for SA.

Diop could be interesting to get if he is available for cheap. However, it won't be easy to match salaries, Diop for Elson doesn't work and Diop can't be packaged with another player.

[T Park]

Elson is an expiring contract.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Elson and Diop both have expiring contracts so maybe...

[some_user86]

He has an expiring contract, so probably not, that's why the Nets wanted him included.

So does Elson...

[Findog]

Mavs will have George instead of Hassel, it's basically as good as the nixed trade for SA.

Diop could be interesting to get if he is available for cheap. However, it won't be easy to match salaries, Diop for Elson doesn't work and Diop can't be packaged with another player.

Again, the Nets are looking to create cap space and Diop comes off the books this summer. If the Spurs want to swing something before thursday, it has to be a one-for-one swap and you'd have to send an expiring contract to Jersey. Diop makes $2.1 million, who on your roster makes within 15% of that and is coming off the books this summer?

[Bruno]

Elson and Diop both have expiring contracts so maybe...

Elson for Diop doesn't work.

[DubMcDub]

This deal's even better IMO. This takes Dallas out of the Mike Miller sweepstakes, since they had to move Van Horn's deal. Stackhouse was going back in 30 days anyways, and Devean George and Trenton Hassell are pretty equal scrubs.

You're absolutely wrong if you think Hassell is anywhere near George, but ok.

[Findog]

It's useless to try Diop for Elson on the trade machine because the Mavs are over the cap and it was rejected. Elson makes $3 mil, Diop 2.1. I don't know if it would work between Jersey and SAS.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Brand new ESPN Trade Machine, too.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/trades/trademachine

[Bruno]

Again, the Nets are looking to create cap space and Diop comes off the books this summer.

Did I say the opposite ?

[Findog]

Bonner is BYC at $2.7 mil. Would that work?

[DubMcDub]

Yes, good news. Time will tell if this is good for Dallas. There's little consensus on whether it makes the Mavs better or not, but Spurs fans clearly think some of the matchup problems Diop and Harris bring are now eliminated.

IMO it weakens us against the Spurs but strengthens us against every single other team.

It's nice to have the Spurs number, but if losing some of that means greater success against other teams, I'll take it. Doesn't matter if we can beat the Spurs if we don't even reach a round where we'll get to play them.

[some_user86]

Bonner is BYC at $2.7 mil. Would that work?

Bonner isn't an expiring contract.

[Findog]

Did I say the opposite ?

I dunno, I was replying to the others who didn't seem to understand NJ's rationale for acquiring him. Sorry.

[Bruno]

Bonner is BYC at $2.7 mil. Would that work?

Bonner isn't expiring.
If Spurs want Diop, it should be a 3 teams trade.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Elson for Diop doesn't work.
I didn't mean straight up just both of them.
Just the start of the trade.

[Findog]

Bonner isn't an expiring contract.

Oh yeah, shit, he's got two years left after this one on his deal. Sorry, you guys would have to get really creative to match Diop's cap figure.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/Mr_Bottomtooth/mhm.jpg
:lmao I love this new trade machine.

[T Park]

Doubtfull Elson happens for Diop anyways due to Thorn not liking the Spurs :lol

[Bruno]

Spurs could do a trade like that

Spurs trade Elson for Diop+Dickau
Nets trade Diop for Aaron Williams
Clippers trade Aaron Williams+Dickau for Elson

Just add some picks/cash to this trade.

[ludda]

Doubtfull Elson happens for Diop anyways due to Thorn not liking the Spurs :lol

Who knows, nothing can be worse than this headache of a trade he's been going through with Cuban.

[DubMcDub]

What, you guys are already giving up on "Dirk-stopper" Elson?

[Mister Sinister]

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/Mr_Bottomtooth/mhm.jpg
:lmao I love this new trade machine.
At first, I was like :wtf. But then, I :lol'd!

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Spurs could do a trade like that

Spurs trade Elson for Diop+Dickau
Nets trade Diop for Aaron Williams
Clippers trade Aaron Williams+Dickau for Elson

Just add some picks/cash to this trade.
:tu

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

What, you guys are already giving up on "Dirk-stopper" Elson?
As much as he may be able to guard him, people with the IQ of a toaster tend to piss you off.

[T Park]

yeah doubtfull it happens.

Shame, Diop would help out alot.

[Mister Sinister]

As much as he may be able to guard him, people with the IQ of a toaster tend to piss you off.
Hey, that's an insult to toasters. My toaster was so offended, it shot burnt toast at me. Way to go. Dick.

[T Park]

What, you guys are already giving up on "Dirk-stopper" Elson?

Why worry about someone taht will choke and not reach deep into the playoffs?

[DubMcDub]

As much as he may be able to guard him, people with the IQ of a toaster tend to piss you off.

Well, I was being pretty facetious in the first place. Elson can't guard him worth a damn.

But that aside, I always thought you guys would have a pretty damn good basketball player if you could combine Oberto's IQ for the game with Elson's body and athleticism. As it is, Oberto's a much better choice.

[lurker]

Fuck you, Keith Van Horn. You Mormon bastard.

[endrity]

Why worry about someone taht will choke and not reach deep into the playoffs?
not against the Spurs he won't

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Hey, that's an insult to toasters. My toaster was so offended, it shot burnt toast at me. Way to go. Dick.


Fuck you, Keith Van Horn. You Mormon bastard.
I :lmao'd.

[mavsfan1000]

Fuck you, Keith Van Horn. You Mormon bastard.
Uh lets not get prejudiced. Yeah what a loser though. He hurt us 2 years ago and is coming back to hurt us again. lol

[exstatic]

Stackhouse and George not going makes this a much better trade for the Mavericks.

Still makes em weaker vs the Spurs though.
Well, Stackhouse wasn't really "going" anyway, was he? George? Pshtt. He's a loser, and I can't wait to see Cuban tell him that his services are no longer required this summer, and that his fuss over "Early Bird" rights was really unnecessary.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I still think the trade sucks for Dallas, but it sucks less since they're able to retain Stackhouse.

[picnroll]

Mavs aren't going to have much to counter bigs with.

[Findog]

Well, Stackhouse wasn't really "going" anyway, was he? George? Pshtt. He's a loser, and I can't wait to see Cuban tell him that his services are no longer required this summer, and that his fuss over "Early Bird" rights was really unnecessary.

Now that we're getting Kidd, George might still get a payday in a S-n-T. But his days with the Mavs are indeed numbered.

Just like Dallas to trade Kidd away in his third season and get him back at the tail end of his career. We settle for the bun instead of the patty. Kiki Vandeweghe, Derek Harper dribbling out the clock, Roy Tarpley, 11 wins, Toni Braxton, Miami, Golden State...another chapter in the tragic majesty that is the Dallas Mavericks.

[T Park]

Findog, I gotta ask about the sig, does the dude on the front really say that? :lol

[Findog]

Findog, I gotta ask about the sig, does the dude on the front really say that? :lol

No, it just always shows up on the Worst Album Covers lists. The actual story is that it's some sad song about how the dude needs to hurry up and get home because his daughter is going on her first date and he wants to see her off. But he stops off at the bar for a few drinks first, gets into an auto accident on the way home. When he comes to, he tells the nurses "tell my daughter I'm okay." And they're like "well, you'll have to tell her in heaven," i.e. he killed her himself in the auto accident. It just looks like sexual coercion from the cover:

http://www.enews.org/blog/2005/08/worst-album-covers-ever.html

[loveforthegame]

What are the Mavs going to do for a backup center? Go small with Bass and Dirk when necessary?

I know Mavs fans have talked about Kurt Thomas and PJ Brown. Not both just as options.

The good news is that they've used their options up for another trade.

[DubMcDub]

Mavs aren't going to have much to counter bigs with.

Eh, you don't need two 7 foot Centers. It was a nice luxury, but they'll be ok with Damp and Bass.

Really, Duncan will abuse whoever is on him, and Shaq can't play more than 30 minutes a game, so Dampier is good for that. And Bass abuses Yao, so I'm not sure what team we're actually worse off against without Diop.

[Findog]

What are the Mavs going to do for a backup center? Go small with Bass and Dirk when necessary?

I know Mavs fans have talked about Kurt Thomas and PJ Brown. Not both just as options.

The good news is that they've used their options up for another trade.

We'll see what happens. I admit I don't like Diop being gone, because Dampier has become injury-prone. Right now, you're looking at Dampier for 25-30 minutes a game, Dirk for another 10, and I'm guessing Malik Allen and Juwan Howard for the rest.

[ludda]

Kidd looked happy at the all star game, said he had a gut feeling it was done.

[picnroll]

Eh, you don't need two 7 foot Centers. It was a nice luxury, but they'll be ok with Damp and Bass.

Really, Duncan will abuse whoever is on him, and Shaq can't play more than 30 minutes a game, so Dampier is good for that. And Bass abuses Yao, so I'm not sure what team we're actually worse off against without Diop.
What're you going to do when Damp gets in foul trouble playing Shaq, Duncan, Gasol and Bynum?

[T Park]

:lol Juwan Howard

[DubMcDub]

What're you going to do when Damp gets in foul trouble playing Shaq, Duncan, Gasol and Bynum?

Like I said, I'm not worried about it with Shaq. He's just as prone to foul trouble.

Duncan will destroy whoever. It doesn't matter. Diop played a nice little stretch of D on him in Game 7, but it's not like it really mattered who was guarding Duncan throughout that series. He did just as much against Dampier and Diop as he did against KVH.

Damp pretty much owns Gasol. That may change now, given the context of his new team, but that remains to be seen.

Bynum, I dunno. I think his injury is worse than the Lakers are letting on. I'm not sure he's a threat (this year).

[T Park]

Eh, you don't need two 7 foot Centers. It was a nice luxury, but they'll be ok with Damp and Bass.

Really, Duncan will abuse whoever is on him, and Shaq can't play more than 30 minutes a game, so Dampier is good for that. And Bass abuses Yao, so I'm not sure what team we're actually worse off against without Diop.


Yeah ok :lol

[DubMcDub]

Yeah ok :lol

No, dude, you were supposed to make an ultra-contrived comment about playoff choking, or perhaps a reference to 4 championships. This "yeah ok" stuff is below par. Where's your A game? :rolleyes

[SenorSpur]

Mavs will have George instead of Hassel, it's basically as good as the nixed trade for SA.

Diop could be interesting to get if he is available for cheap. However, it won't be easy to match salaries, Diop for Elson doesn't work and Diop can't be packaged with another player.

Does league rules allow Diop to be traded again, so soon after his trade to New Jersey?

[Spurminator]

So Keith Van Horn's career comes full circle as he returns to the team that drafted him in 1997. Will this rejuvenate his corpse of a career? Will putting on that Nets uniform remind him of the best years of his career and convince him to come out of retirement to shine once again in front of the Nets faithful at the Izod Center?

http://members.aol.com/wolfman204/images/van%20horn,%20keith%20dunks%20-%20reduced.jpg

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Does league rules allow Diop to be traded again, so soon after his trade to New Jersey?
I think so, but not to the team he was traded from.
So once Diop is traded, he's done with the Mavericks.

[Indazone]

Juwan Howard will be getting lots of minutes now that Diop is gone. Trust me.

[td4mvp21]

I think Dallas is still a top 3 Western Conference team. I think the trade eases matchup problems with the Spurs. Kidd is a lot easier to stop than Harris, especially for the Spurs. Plus, now you have to have the entire team defense focus on Parker, which should free up our other guys to hit shots. But can the Mavs still beat the Spurs in the playoffs? Yes.

[pad300]

Does league rules allow Diop to be traded again, so soon after his trade to New Jersey?

IIRC there is an exception to the rule. A player can be traded again within 1 week of being traded as an individual (not a package of multiple players).

[td4mvp21]

IIRC there is an exception to the rule. A player can be traded again within 1 week of being traded as an individual (not a package of multiple players).

Elson and pick for Diop? :hungry:

[ludda]

I think Dallas is still a top 3 Western Conference team. I think the trade eases matchup problems with the Spurs. Kidd is a lot easier to stop than Harris, especially for the Spurs. Plus, now you have to have the entire team defense focus on Parker, which should free up our other guys to hit shots. But can the Mavs still beat the Spurs in the playoffs? Yes.

I thought the Spurs could beat the Mavs even without the trade. If they don't address their thinness at C, then we have a even bigger adv.

I think this trade maekes the mavs better though. Just not against us and maybe some other teams. They desperately needed a spark, a leader, and someone who could make the right play with the game on the line.

Who knows, itll be interesting to watch.

[mavsfan1000]

Juwan Howard will be getting lots of minutes now that Diop is gone. Trust me.
Juwan Howard is horrible man. You can have him back.

[SenorSpur]

Diop would not be a bad pickup, especially if Elson is who is going out.

I like the idea. I figure Diop would welcome the change. Word has it that he was pretty upset about last week's potential trade because, much like Devean George, he wasn't informed either.

Assuming the Spurs could pull this off, I imagine he'd like nothing more than a chance to come back and "stick it" to the Mavs.

[Bob Lanier]

Damp pretty much owns Gasol.
LOLwhat (http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/dallas-mavericks/players/erick-dampier/comparison/08/6/77/469)

Bass abuses Yao
LOLwhat (http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/houston-rockets/players/yao-ming/comparison/08/10/147/76)

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

:lol

[SenorSpur]

I think Dallas is still a top 3 Western Conference team. I think the trade eases matchup problems with the Spurs. Kidd is a lot easier to stop than Harris, especially for the Spurs. Plus, now you have to have the entire team defense focus on Parker, which should free up our other guys to hit shots. But can the Mavs still beat the Spurs in the playoffs? Yes.

All very true, but so much for the notion of the Mavs being "built to beat the San Antonio Spurs".

Mavs now have a clear 1-2 year window of opportunity. The next sound you hear is the window closing rapidly.

[td4mvp21]

I thought the Spurs could beat the Mavs even without the trade. If they don't address their thinness at C, then we have a even bigger adv.

I think this trade maekes the mavs better though. Just not against us and maybe some other teams. They desperately needed a spark, a leader, and someone who could make the right play with the game on the line.

Who knows, itll be interesting to watch.

Well I think we could have beaten them before the trade too, but this trade makes it easier too IMO. Doesn't mean we will but the Spurs definitely get some breaks. Kidd's primarily going to shoot threes but I'll have him shooting those all day rather than Harris torching us in the paint and from the outside.

Kidd is a leader and that is something the Mavs need. I'm guessing the Mavs will become more of a fast break team with him as their pointguard? Not anywhere close to how they used to be or how the Suns are, but more so than now. I think that plays more into the Spurs' hands too, they seem to be good at stopping run-n-gun teams. Dallas still has their defense and their big three so I think they can definitely still win the West.

[Holt's Cat]

http://www.cothibridgehotel.co.uk/images/cork_pop_250.jpg

[Bruno]

Does league rules allow Diop to be traded again, so soon after his trade to New Jersey?

Yes.

Restriction are :
- a player can't be reacquire by a team during the same year.
- a player can't be packaged with other player during 2 months after he has been traded.

Diop can be traded before the deadline to all teams except Dallas as long as he isn't packaged with other Nets players. He can be packaged with draft picks or cash.

As example, Rasheed stayed less than one week with Atlanta before going to Detroit.

[SenorSpur]

Well I think we could have beaten them before the trade too, but this trade makes it easier too IMO. Doesn't mean we will but the Spurs definitely get some breaks. Kidd's primarily going to shoot threes but I'll have him shooting those all day rather than Harris torching us in the paint and from the outside.

Kidd is a leader and that is something the Mavs need. I'm guessing the Mavs will become more of a fast break team with him as their pointguard? Not anywhere close to how they used to be or how the Suns are, but more so than now. I think that plays more into the Spurs' hands too, they seem to be good at stopping run-n-gun teams. Dallas still has their defense and their big three so I think they can definitely still win the West.

That run-n-gun style that Kidd prefers certainly does play into the hands of the Spurs. They impose their will on opposing teams by concentrating on getting back on defense to stall transition opportunities. If they can stop the Suns, they will have no problems stopping fast break opportunities for the Mavs.

Don't be fooled into thinking the Mavs will suddenly become this chic fast break outfit. In New Jersey, Kidd had lane-fillers in Jefferson and Carter. On this Mavs team, Kidd will have only half-court jump shooters. Thereby he'll be less effective against a very stout defensive team like the Spurs.

Should be very interesting finish to this season.

[ludda]

The Mavs definitely do not match up well with us ..on paper. But the team was stale and had little chance of getting out of the West. They have a little better chance.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

http://www.cothibridgehotel.co.uk/images/cork_pop_250.jpg
:lol

[Findog]

Does league rules allow Diop to be traded again, so soon after his trade to New Jersey?

by himself, he can't be packaged.

[pad300]

Bonner isn't expiring.
If Spurs want Diop, it should be a 3 teams trade.


Indeed, to elaborate, Elson makes $3,000,000. He can be traded for a value between 2.32 and 3.85 million. Diop makes $2,146,000. Diop can be traded for a value between 2.78 and 1.64 million. This means the 3ed party in such a trade would have to put up between 2.32 and 2.78 million dollars in expiring contracts. As individual players, there are 2 realistic trade partners. Miami (Alonzo Mourning 2,762,500) and Toronto (Juan Dixon, 2,550,000, Also Jose Calderon, but well YEAH RIGHT he'll be included)...Mourning, as I understand, is done for the season. Dixon is not playing a lot (11.9 mpg for the season, 35 games played, no injuries).

I'd try Miami 1st

To Miami
Elson
Cash to compensate Salary difference between Elson and Mourning
From Miami
Mourning
To NJ
Mourning
Cash to compensate salary difference between Mourning and Diop
SA 08 1st
More Cash (the remainder of the $3,000,000 max cash that SA can commit _to the deal)
From NJ
Diop
DAL 2010 1st
To SA
Diop
DAL 2010 1st
From SA
Elson
2008 1st
Cash ($3,000,000)

Why for Miami - get a bigger expiring at no cost. Get big to help their front line, Alonzo's out for the season.

Why for SA - Rent Diop for the playoffs. Acquire Diop's bird rights for the offseason - we will likely be looking to sign an experienced big in the offseason. Doing from Bird rights would preserve our exceptions for other needs. This also adjust SA's salary cap figure downwards. This would in turn pay for the cash involved (mostly) by collecting the luxury tax payout.

Why for NJ - This assumes they are not looking to re-sign Diop as a strategy point next summer. If this is true, they get a larger expiring contract, and a draft pick now for a smaller expiring cntract and a draft pick later...

[td4mvp21]

Yes.

Restriction are :
- a player can't be reacquire by a team during the same year.
- a player can't be packaged with other player during 2 months after he has been traded.

Diop can be traded before the deadline to all teams except Dallas as long as he isn't packaged with other Nets players. He can be packaged with draft picks or cash.

As example, Rasheed stayed less than one week with Atlanta before going to Detroit.

Any chance the Spurs go after Diop? I would hope so, if they don't want to go after someone better.

[Findog]

What're you going to do when Damp gets in foul trouble playing Shaq, Duncan, Gasol and Bynum?

"I'm James Donaldson, bitch!"


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1253/831020979_4ee813668a.jpg

[manufor3]

well it was a point of no return for both teams. Since inevitable.

Are the Mavs still getting Antoine Wright?
no :wakeup

[Findog]

On to more important matters, what # is Kidd gonna take? Josh has 5.

[Bruno]

Any chance the Spurs go after Diop? I would hope so, if they don't want to go after someone better.

I'm not Spurs GM, so I don't know.

Diop could help Spurs in certain matchup, I could see Spurs trying to get him if they are worried by Lakers and Suns frontcourt.

Personally, I think that Diop could be a decent addition. I'm not really high on him and if Nets wants a lot for him, like a first round pick or Mahinmi, I hope Spurs won't do a trade for him.

[picnroll]

Rather have Kurt Thomas.

[clubalien]

this has been said before but i think it is intresting. you thought a MVP nash was too old so you solve this by trading for kidd a player you ended up trading away before.

[Bruno]

I'd try Miami 1st


There are some teams that could work as third team. Miami is one of them.

There is something wrong in your fantasy trade scenario. Elson has less money left on his contract than a player like Mourning.
Elson contract is front loaded. 80% of his salary($2.4M) is given the first day of the season.
We are about at two third of the season. Elson should still get $200K while Mourning should still get $900K.

[SenorSpur]

Well I think we could have beaten them before the trade too, but this trade makes it easier too IMO. Doesn't mean we will but the Spurs definitely get some breaks. Kidd's primarily going to shoot threes but I'll have him shooting those all day rather than Harris torching us in the paint and from the outside.


Kidd aint the one to be shooting three's. Dude is a horrific 37% from the field! That is just terrible for an NBA player of his caliber. Hell, Barry shoots that from 3pt range. No wonder Kidd's season scoring average is down to around 10, 11 ppg.

[Bruno]

Rather have Kurt Thomas.

I rather have Diop because you don't have to give up Barry to get him.

[picnroll]

I rather have Diop because you don't have to give up Barry to get him.
Barry can come back after 30 days. I think he's about 100 IQ points brighter than Stackhouuse.

[SenorSpur]

Another reason Diop makes sense for the Spurs it would allow them to matchup better against the suddenly taller frontlines of both the Fakers and Suns. Shaq in PHX, and Gasol for the Fakers.

[T Park]

Diop while keeping barry would be better than trading barry and elson for thomas.

But, barry might not play again the right way the rest of the year, so what the hell, get the better player.

[Bruno]

Barry can come back after 30 days.

If he is waived and if he decides to chose Spurs over other teams.
It's not a sure thing.

If Seattle gets Barry, I can see them keeping him unless there is a pre-arrangement. Barry is a good vet and played a lot there.

[picnroll]

If he is waived and if he decides to chose Spurs over other teams.
It's not a sure thing.

If Seattle gets Barry, I can see them keeping him unless there is a pre-arrangement. Barry is a good vet and played a lot there.
The deal would be based on Barry coming back. Spurs have a couple of second round picks, Toronto's and theirs to try to get the job done.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

NJ will keep Diop. He's a perfect foil for Krstic looking forward.

T Park - do you have information on Barry that we don't? Why are you so convinced he won't play again this season when the doctors only put him out for a month?

[Cr0vax]

maybe we could get diop after this season ^^

[td4mvp21]

Diop while keeping barry would be better than trading barry and elson for thomas.

But, barry might not play again the right way the rest of the year, so what the hell, get the better player.

Diop IS more athletic, I think that is something to consider. I'd take either of them at this point.

[T Park]

Why are you so convinced he won't play again this season when the doctors only put him out for a month?


36

hurt the same calf muscle seriously twice?

If he does come back he won't be able to run that well or prob shoot that well.

Just a fact. Hes old and hurting that part of a shooter's body is murder.

[T Park]

Diop IS more athletic, I think that is something to consider. I'd take either of them at this point.

Not really.

Thomas is a better player all the way around.

Its a no brainer.

[td4mvp21]

Diop averages 5.3 rpg in only 17 minutes, along with 1.3 bpg. Pretty fucking efficient if you ask me.

Thomas does have the nice midrange jumper though.

[T Park]

Thomas is a better defender, and is not as rigid as everyone thinks.

He kept up alright with Phoenix last year.

[T Park]

Were all saying this and I gaurantee the Spurs are saying

"Why would we want Diop or Thomas?"

[pad300]

There are some teams that could work as third team. Miami is one of them.

There is something wrong in your fantasy trade scenario. Elson has less money left on his contract than a player like Mourning.
Elson contract is front loaded. 80% of his salary($2.4M) is given the first day of the season.
We are about at two third of the season. Elson should still get $200K while Mourning should still get $900K.


Where did you find that out? I have been working with salary information from

http://www.storytellerscontracts.info

If your infor is accurate, we wouldn't have to send any cash to Miami. They would be saving money on the exchange of players, despite Elson being higher paid than Mourning. Doesn't really make much of a difference to the core of the proposal...

[td4mvp21]

Were all saying this and I gaurantee the Spurs are saying

"Why would we want Diop or Thomas?"

:lol Probably :pctoss

[ShoogarBear]

So Keith Van Horn's career comes full circle as he returns to the team that drafted him in 1997.So does Jason Kidd's.


Will this rejuvenate his corpse of a career? Will putting on that Nets uniform remind him of the best years of his career and convince him to come out of retirement to shine once again in front of the Nets faithful at the Izod Center?
Maybe it will rejuvenate the memories of those Spur fans who insisted he should have been drafted ahead of Tim Duncan that year.

[pad300]

Not really.

Thomas is a better player all the way around.

Its a no brainer.

Statistically, Diop is a better shot blocker. He also draws more fouls and has a better EFG% (mostly because he plays a lot more inside. 82 games shows Diop taking 84% of his shots from "inside", whereas K. Thomas only take 27%).

[T Park]

Maybe it will rejuvenate the memories of those Spur fans who insisted he should have been drafted ahead of Tim Duncan that year.



OMG

are you serious!?!?!?

[pad300]

NJ will keep Diop. He's a perfect foil for Krstic looking forward.



You got anything to back this up? I was under the impression that they were pretty happy with Sean Williams as a future foil for Krstic...

[Bruno]

Where did you find that out?

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1118800&postcount=6


The Spurs also front-loaded each year of Elson's contract, making a substantial percentage of it payable in one lump sum before the start of the season.

The max allowed is to give 80% of the salary before the start of the season.
I guess that Spurs have decided to give the max allowed because the goal was to discourage Nuggets to match.

[SenorSpur]

Not really.

Thomas is a better player all the way around.

Its a no brainer.

Not a total no brainer. Sure Thomas is a reliable scorer, rebounder and sturdy defender. Yet Diop has the one thing that Thomas doesn't have - SIZE. Diop's shotblocking presence around the rim makes the better candidate for what the Spurs need. They don't necessarily need him to score. Just rebound, block shots, and defend the post.

Thomas cannot guard a Shaq or a Bynum. Duncan certainly could use Thomas as a running mate, but Diop's size makes for a better tandem against the newly super-sized teams like the Fakers and Suns. Plus he's younger and cheaper.

[SenorSpur]

Statistically, Diop is a better shot blocker. He also draws more fouls and has a better EFG% (mostly because he plays a lot more inside. 82 games shows Diop taking 84% of his shots from "inside", whereas K. Thomas only take 27%).
:toast

[T Park]

Thomas cannot guard a Shaq or a Bynum

Why is that.

Hes a big a body that can push and shove em out.

That makes no sense at all.

[pad300]

Not a total no brainer. Sure Thomas is a reliable scorer, rebounder and sturdy defender. Yet Diop has the one thing that Thomas doesn't have - SIZE. Diop's shotblocking presence around the rim makes the better candidate for what the Spurs need. They don't necessarily need him to score. Just rebound, block shots, and defend the post.

Thomas cannot guard a Shaq or a Bynum. Duncan certainly could use Thomas as a running mate, but Diop's size makes for a better tandem against the newly super-sized teams like the Fakers and Suns. Plus he's younger and cheaper.

Not to mention Diop is more mobile than Thomas, and could go outside with Gasol and possibly with Amare. Diop could also handle pick and roll switches that would match him up with Dirk on the perimeter (better, at least, than Thomas).

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

pad300 - no, just my opinion. They agve away their best post defender in Collins, so it makes sense to me that they'll want to keep a guy like Diop.

T Park - I don't think Barry will come back until he's confident in the calf. It's premature to assume he's done for the season.

[Bruno]

I don't think Nets wnat to keep Diop. They still have 3 young big men they like with Kristic, Sean Williams and Boone.
Diop won't be easy to keep because he will be an UFA this summer.
IMO, Diop is more available than Thomas.

And I won't make some wild guess on Barry. I'm not a doctor and don't know the exact state of Barry's calf. Playoff are a couple of months away and Barry could easily be at 100% for it.
Barry has played really well this year, he is an important part of Spurs, especially when they play small.

[T Park]

T Park - I don't think Barry will come back until he's confident in the calf. It's premature to assume he's done for the season.




When he came back 100% last time he lasted what, a whole 3 games?

Im glad your optimistic.


I don't think Nets wnat to keep Diop. They still have 3 young big men they like with Kristic, Sean Williams and Boone.
Diop won't be easy to keep because he will be an UFA this summer.
IMO, Diop is more available than Thomas.



I don't think Kristic though is playing right now is he?

If he isn't they will prob want to keep him and have a low post defensive presence.

[Bob Lanier]

I don't think Nets wnat to keep Diop. They still have 3 young big men they like with Kristic, Sean Williams and Boone.
Diop won't be easy to keep because he will be an UFA this summer.
IMO, Diop is more available than Thomas.
What the Nets want to do in the abstract and what Rod Thorn's petulant, spiteful attitude leads him to do in actuality do not always coincide.

As for the Diop-vs.-Thomas debate, Thomas is likely the better player but the Spurs could use Diop more. KT is, essentially, a souped-up Fab Oberto.

[Bruno]

I don't think Kristic though is playing right now is he?

If he isn't they will prob want to keep him and have a low post defensive presence.

Kristic came back one week ago.
He is clearly in their future. A reason given for the Kidd trade was to be able to re-sign Kristic this summer without being in the Luxury tax area.

Nets have also Magloire and Swift.

[T Park]

Kristic came back one week ago.
He is clearly in their future. A reason given for the Kidd trade was to be able to re-sign Kristic this summer without being in the Luxury tax area.

Nets have also Magloire and Swift.

Didn't know he had finally came back.

Agreed they may NOT want Diop.


This is all assuming though that the Spurs would want Diop.

[Bruno]

This is all assuming though that the Spurs would want Diop.

Yes and assuming Spurs are ready to give up for Diop what Nets wants and find a third team to do the trade.

Another issue is that if Spurs do a trade like Barry+Elson+picks for Mike Miller, they won't have an expiring contract available for Diop. Spurs likely would have to find a team ready to trade Bonner for an expiring contract.

[baseline bum]

You're absolutely wrong if you think Hassell is anywhere near George, but ok.

OK... pile of dogshit vs. pile of bear shit. Either way, both stink.

[crc21209]

I think this deal is better than the 1st one when it comes to us Spurs fans. 1st off Stack was going back to Dallas anyway so getting rid of Hassel is a bonus for us, since him and George equally suck lol, Ager is lost for Dallas who could have developed into something good one day, we dont have to worry about Diop and Harris anymore, sending Van Horn now costs Dallas more money meaning they cant be a player in the Mike Miller sweepstakes or also getting another big! They're fucked! lol.

[Trainwreck2100]

Maybe it will rejuvenate the memories of those Spur fans who insisted he should have been drafted ahead of Tim Duncan that year.

Cmon now, he did get three Rookie of the Year votes that year

[anakha]

According to ESPN, Dallas is also handing over two first-round picks, aside from the players.

Looks like Thorn took advantage of the whole controversy to squeeze out some more stuff from Cuban.

[Trainwreck2100]

According to ESPN, Dallas is also handing over two first-round picks, aside from the players.

Looks like Thorn took advantage of the whole controversy to squeeze out some more stuff from Cuban.

Those picks were originally part of the deal

[anakha]

Those picks were originally part of the deal

My bad, then. Carry on. :lol

[ludda]

I think this deal is better than the 1st one when it comes to us Spurs fans. 1st off Stack was going back to Dallas anyway so getting rid of Hassel is a bonus for us, since him and George equally suck lol, Ager is lost for Dallas who could have developed into something good one day, we dont have to worry about Diop and Harris anymore, sending Van Horn now costs Dallas more money meaning they cant be a player in the Mike Miller sweepstakes or also getting another big! They're fucked! lol.

I agree with everything you said except about Ager. I've watched the dude many times and he's a bonafide SCRUB.

[Findog]

Ager is worthless. Once you subtract away the scrubs that don't get any burn, it's essentially Harris and Diop for Kidd.

[ss1986v2]

yup. its essentially harris, diop, and 2 1sts for kidd. still a bit of a high price considering what disgruntled, marquee players have been going for the last couple of years though (iverson, carter, gasol).

[Findog]

yup. its essentially harris, diop, and 2 1sts for kidd. still a bit of a high price considering what disgruntled, marquee players have been going for the last couple of years though (iverson, carter, gasol).

Vince Carter and Pau Gasol were given away by shitty gms that didn't know what they were doing. The Nuggets gave up Andre Miller and frankly I don't think they're any better than they were. Rod Thorn isn't Chris Wallace or Rob Babcock, Mavs weren't going to be fleecing him.

[ss1986v2]

Vince Carter and Pau Gasol were given away by shitty gms that didn't know what they were doing. The Nuggets gave up Andre Miller and frankly I don't think they're any better than they were. Rod Thorn isn't Chris Wallace or Rob Babcock, Mavs weren't going to be fleecing him.
oh, i agree. just that these kinds of things do tend to follow the trends. i just would have thought that with a player (kidd) publicly calling out team management to trade him, the value might have been a bit lower. the deal is by no means unreasonable, just seems to be a bit too reasonable, considering the particular situation and previous events.

[Findog]

oh, i agree. just that these kinds of things do tend to follow the trends. i just would have thought that with a player (kidd) publicly calling out team management to trade him, the value might have been a bit lower. the deal is by no means unreasonable, just seems to be a bit too reasonable, considering the particular situation and previous events.

The two #1 picks bother me, but I guess Cuban figures they'll be in the twenties and not that valuable.

[JPB]

I think there's an "under the table" agreement between Mavs and Nets stipulating that NJ won't trade Diop to SA.

I really don't see Dallas taking the rysk to let him go to San Antonio.

[MannyIsGod]

There can't be an under the table agreement like that. WTF do the Nets have to gain out of it?

[JPB]

There are such agreements in trades.

[Bruno]

Diop will be as useless as Rasho/Nazr against Mavs.
I don't think Mavs really care if Spurs got Diop.
If Mavs rather face Spurs than Lakers/Suns, they could even like a deal that strengthen Spurs against these teams.

Saying that, an under the table agreement is always possible.

[polandprzem]

Kidd 10+ rebs everytime he faces the spurs

Tony and Manu 2 rebs at max (combine)

[RADECK]

So Mavs will be contender for max two years, then rebuilding. Two 1st round picks is stupid! Like whole trade is. :bang

:flag:

[loveforthegame]

Diop was in AJ's doghouse a lot this year. Not sure why since he was playing well when he got minutes. I think AJ fell a little too in love with Bass.

I seriously doubt the Mavs would care if the Spurs got him through trade or if he's waived.

[clambake]

So Mavs will be contender for max two years, then rebuilding. Two 1st round picks is stupid! Like whole trade is. :bang

:flag:
dallas' first round picks are hit or miss at best. you can have fazekas.

[pad300]

Yes and assuming Spurs are ready to give up for Diop what Nets wants and find a third team to do the trade.

Another issue is that if Spurs do a trade like Barry+Elson+picks for Mike Miller, they won't have an expiring contract available for Diop. Spurs likely would have to find a team ready to trade Bonner for an expiring contract.

I don't know if we are going to be willing to try and get Diop. I would if I was management. However, I will say that a Mike Miller deal is a fantasy... We won't do that to our cap issues. Particularly as that would have us paying 9 million to a 4th option. We simply will not run that way. IF we do a Barry + Elson trade, it will be for a shorter, cheaper contract than Miller's (or multiple contracts that are either shorter, cheaper, or both...).

[Bruno]

However, I will say that a Mike Miller deal is a fantasy... We won't do that to our cap issues. Particularly as that would have us paying 9 million to a 4th option. We simply will not run that way. IF we do a Barry + Elson trade, it will be for a shorter, cheaper contract than Miller's (or multiple contracts that are either shorter, cheaper, or both...).

Spurs going after Miller has been reported by Ludden, It's almost sure that it has happened. Calling that fantasy is kinda living in denial.
Whether or not you understand it, Spurs have tried and are maybe still trying to get Mike Miller.

I think that Spurs going after Mike Milller makes a lot of sense, especially when you consider the 2010 plan. I think Spurs have a remote chance to get him but I see nothing illogical in Spurs trying to get him.

[Holt's Cat]

The Spurs would happily pay Miller $9 mil a year or whatever it is to be their '4th man'. They aren't positioning themselves for significant cap flexibility until 2010, which is when Miller's contract expires.

Next issue.

[pad300]

Spurs going after Miller has been reported by Ludden, It's almost sure that it has happened. Calling that fantasy is kinda living in denial.
Whether or not you understand it, Spurs have tried and are maybe still trying to get Mike Miller.

I think that Spurs going after Mike Milller makes a lot of sense, especially when you consider the 2010 plan. I think Spurs have a remote chance to get him but I see nothing illogical in Spurs trying to get him.

The only time we ever hear about the Spurs targeting someone in a trade in the Media is either A) after we've made the trade, or B) after the negotiations have failed... Examples of A) Nazr Mohammed, Melvin Ely; Examples of B) Corey Maggette, Kyle Korver (this season). Mike Miller isn't on the roster, and we here people saying the spurs targetted him. Could it be he fits in column B? Especially after Pop took a shot at the Grizzlies management in the national press...

[Holt's Cat]

The Spurs have to be willing to take on a significant contract if they hope to get anybody of value in return for some combination or Barry and Elson. Horry and Finley's deals will be expiring at the end of this season so they are already set to enjoy some payroll reduction as it stands.

[Ghost Writer]

I'd sugarcoat Elson and Barry for M. Miller with a first round draft pick.

The Spurs are built to win now.

And Miller can defend adequately, shoot 3s and get a lot of rebounds for a SF.

He could be an assassin for the Spurs and is young enough to contribute to the current reign for the next 5 years.

[Bruno]

The only time we ever hear about the Spurs targeting someone in a trade in the Media is either A) after we've made the trade, or B) after the negotiations have failed... Examples of A) Nazr Mohammed, Melvin Ely; Examples of B) Corey Maggette, Kyle Korver (this season).

I quite disagree with that.
There is no way you can say if the fact that Spurs have targeted Maggette has been known before or after negotiations have failed.

Nobody here knows if spurs are still trying to get Mike Miller.
When you consider Pop's comment and that Grizzlies asked a lot for Miller, it's likely that Miller isn't a serious option anymore.
However, it remains a less fantasy option than all the players we don't even know if Spurs are interested in them.

[Ghost Writer]

One thing we do know is that the Spurs true intentions are rarely made public.

Loose lips sink ships.

[clubalien]

The Spurs would happily pay Miller $9 mil a year or whatever it is to be their '4th man'. They aren't positioning themselves for significant cap flexibility until 2010, which is when Miller's contract expires.

Next issue.
cap flexibility in 2010

So we can go after kidd? :bang

[clubalien]

One thing we do know is that the Spurs true intentions are rarely made public.

Loose lips sink ships.

maybe we are going to pull a stackhouse
trade tim Duncan for superman
then have tim duncan opt out of contract wait three days and sign him to the vet min!

yes cia pop would have finally did soemthing good

[SenorSpur]

Diop was in AJ's doghouse a lot this year. Not sure why since he was playing well when he got minutes. I think AJ fell a little too in love with Bass.

I seriously doubt the Mavs would care if the Spurs got him through trade or if he's waived.

I'm not sure why that is. Diop was STILL the Mavs best post defender and shot-blocker. He would represent a step-up from any other big our the Spurs roster - not named Duncan.