Kidd to Dallas....almost done deal again.....

[nsrammstein]

Dallas Mavericks have another deal in place for Kidd


08:25 PM CST on Sunday, February 17, 2008
By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News

For the second time in five days, the Jason Kidd trade to the Dallas Mavericks is a done deal.

This time, it has a better chance to stick.

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The Mavericks and New Jersey Nets have agreed to a retooled deal that will send Devin Harris, DeSagana Diop, Trenton Hassell, Moe Ager, a signed-and-traded Keith Van Horn, two first-round draft picks and cash in exchange for the future Hall of Fame point guard and Malik Allen.

An Eastern Conference executive confirmed the deal before Sunday evening’s All-Star Game.

The Mavericks thought they had a deal for Kidd on Wednesday that included Jerry Stackhouse. But the league said it would investigate comments by Stackhouse about being bought out, then returning to the Mavericks. It was questionable whether a pre-arranged deal was struck, which would be against league rules.


AP
Guard Jason Kidd warms up for Sunday's All-Star Game. The new deal should alleviate any fears. It also gets done without Devean George, the largest obstacle in last week's proposed deal. George blocked last week's trade through a provision in the collective bargaining agreement.

Harris, reached in Las Vegas on Sunday evening, said he’s spent the weekend trying to forget about potential trades.

“I have not paid attention to any of it,’’ he said. “I’m just having fun and enjoying the break. I’ll worry about that stuff when I get back tomorrow.’’

The trade probably will be submitted for NBA approval Monday.

[MavDynasty]

Make it happen...


Cubes landed Antawn Jamison,Antoine Walker,and now Jason Kidd....am i missing anyone?That mans genius

[BillsCarnage]

The inclusion of KVH in this "new" proposal (and no Stack) is pretty much admission of the arrangement with Stack, Nets and Mavs in the first proposal.

[ludda]

According to ESPN, Mavs are getting Antoine Wright to for a 2nd rounder.

[sribb43]

The inclusion of KVH in this "new" proposal (and no Stack) is pretty much admission of the arrangement with Stack, Nets and Mavs in the first proposal.


while that might be the case, i think both sides want to aviod any investigation just to make sure no hold ups could happen again

plus the nets would take on Hassells contract of 2 more years amd the inclusion of KVH doesnt hurt

[StylisticS]

I still hate the fact we're giving up Devin and Diop. But this seems like alot better trade than the 1st one.

[Findog]

The inclusion of KVH in this "new" proposal (and no Stack) is pretty much admission of the arrangement with Stack, Nets and Mavs in the first proposal.

What the fuck ever:


"Even though I don't want to give Stackhouse and the Mavs their defense too easily, things happen," Stern said. "He certainly is allowed to do that in terms of going back after 30 days. The big issue is whether there is an agreement to do it. And speculating about it doesn't make it an agreement, even if you wish he hadn't spoken."

Why people got hung up on this I don't know.

[stxspurs]

Cubes landed Antawn Jamison,Antoine Walker,and now Jason Kidd....am i missing anyone?That mans genius

you got to be fucking kidding me :lmao

[fyatuk]

What the fuck ever:

Why people got hung up on this I don't know.


Even though I don't want to give Stackhouse and the Mavs their defense too easily

Its pretty clear even Stern thinks there was an illegal deal.

[Findog]

Its pretty clear even Stern thinks there was an illegal deal.

Why did you leave off the rest of that quote? Complete 180 from what Stern actually said.

:lol

[fyatuk]

Why did you leave off the rest of that quote? Complete 180 from what Stern actually said.

:lol

Why would I bother quoting the whole thing when I was just pointing out part of yours? Stern said he didn't want to give the Mavs and Stack their defense. He's said he's warned the teams to obey the rules. He's set out the steps that would have to be taken to investigate it.

You do now how to put 2+2 together to get 4, right?

Wait, you don't. Nevermind.

[Findog]

Why would I bother quoting the whole thing

Selective quoting to support your disengenous point would be my guess.



Stern said he didn't want to give the Mavs and Stack their defense. He's said he's warned the teams to obey the rules. He's set out the steps that would have to be taken to investigate it.

No, he said that there was nothing to prevent Stack to return to Dallas in that scenario as long as there wasn't any binding side agreement in the trade proposal, which there wasn't.



You do now how to put 2+2 together to get 4, right?

I know how to avoid making something out of nothing.

[mavsfan1000]

Make it happen...


Cubes landed Antawn Jamison,Antoine Walker,and now Jason Kidd....am i missing anyone?That mans genius
:lmao

[sribb43]

Make it happen...


Cubes landed Antawn Jamison,Antoine Walker,and now Jason Kidd....am i missing anyone?That mans genius

howard eisley, kevin willis, alan henderson, walt williams, anthony johnson, dennis rodman, Juwan Howard, Calvin Booth, Obinna Ekezie, Raef LaFrentz, Nick Van Exel, Tariq Abdul-Wahad, Avery Johnson, Antawn Jamison, Danny Fortson, Jiri Welsch, Chris Mills, Tony Delk, Doug Christie, :smokin

did i leave anyone out?

[fyatuk]

Selective quoting to support your disengenous point would be my guess.


So you'd rather I re-pasted the exact same quote you did and just bolded the part I was pointing out? That's a waste of time and effort.

If I was going to pull from a quote other than what was already posted, I would have posted the entire thing, as you did.

like this:

I haven't been up to date on the negotiations. But it's a subject of interest to us, and the parties of the transaction know that it's a subject of interest to us. They've been spoken to.


If there is something we need to investigate, like whether or not a player and team had an illicit agreement, we ask lots of questions and we make a determination as to whether they are being truthful. (...) If there's no so-called smoking gun, that's what we're paid to do.


No, he said that there was nothing to prevent Stack to return to Dallas in that scenario as long as there wasn't any binding side agreement in the trade proposal, which there wasn't.

Which has nothing to do with whether he believes there was a deal or not. His statements imply he thinks there was a deal, and at least strongly implies he'd investigate if the deal played out as the media stated it would.

And he did not use the word binding. You never managed to grasp that part of the rule.


I know how to avoid making something out of nothing.

Apparently you know how to ignore things that aren't nothing.
:sleep

[Findog]

So you'd rather I re-pasted the exact same quote you did and just bolded the part I was pointing out? That's a waste of time and effort.

I'd rather that people didn't bite pillows over nothing, but that's your choice, not mine.




And he did not use the word binding. You never managed to grasp that part of the rule.

Oh yes, the magical, under the table circumvention and oral, implied agreement.

[fyatuk]

Oh yes, the magical, under the table circumvention and oral, implied agreement.

Hardly magical, since that's exactly what's in the CBA, as has been quoted on this board about 15 times and you refuse to accept.
:sleep

[Findog]

Hardly magical, since that's exactly what's in the CBA, as has been quoted on this board about 15 times and you refuse to accept.
:sleep

It's been conjured up ad infinitum by opposing fans that apparently don't like this trade. I was opposed to it too until the thing fell apart publicly. Mavs had no choice but to see it through at that point.

[sribb43]

http://photos-594.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v203/147/25/676099594/n676099594_640467_9079.jpg

[Findog]

http://photos-594.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v203/147/25/676099594/n676099594_640467_9079.jpg

What # is he going to wear?

[fyatuk]

It's been conjured up ad infinitum by opposing fans that apparently don't like this trade. I was opposed to it too until the thing fell apart publicly. Mavs had no choice but to see it through at that point.

I like how you keep trying to discredit it by using terms like "magical" and "conjured" when it was cut and paste from the CBA (available online here (http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles.php) ). :lol

And I've never been opposed to the trade (I'm the one that first posted it). I would love to see Dallas do the original deal. I don't even care if there was a pre-arranged deal for a buyout and re-sign. It's not something I think should be banned since a player has complete rights to reject or accept any offer.

So yeah, you sure know a lot about who you are referring to.
:sleep

[Findog]

I like how you keep trying to discredit it by using terms like "magical" and "conjured" when it was cut and paste from the CBA

Stack's comments can lead a reasonable person to suspect that there was some sort of implied arrangement, but that's a far cry from being able to make a successful argument to an arbitrator that the Mavs solicited him to come back after 30 days. If Stack knew the Nets were going to buy him out, then he had free will to decide where he wanted to go. When he gave that interview, he thought the deal was done and he was expressing his preference. It's within the realm of possibility that the Mavericks solicited him in this manner, but we'll never know, and without anything more than supposition and innuendo, that's not enough to hold up his return. All a moot point anyway.

[fyatuk]

Stack's comments can lead a reasonable person to suspect that there was some sort of implied arrangement, but that's a far cry from being able to make a successful argument to an arbitrator that the Mavs solicited him to come back after 30 days. If Stack knew the Nets were going to buy him out, then he had free will to decide where he wanted to go. When he gave that interview, he thought the deal was done and he was expressing his preference. It's within the realm of possibility that the Mavericks solicited him in this manner, but we'll never know, and without anything more than supposition and innuendo, that's not enough to hold up his return. All a moot point anyway.

Enough for an investigation at least, but yeah, moot point.

[Findog]

Enough for an investigation at least, but yeah, moot point.

Now on to more important things: Does this make Dallas better? The Pistons say no, the Suns said yes. The Spurs apparently were delighted at this trade as well. It's funny how wide a range of opinion there is.

[pking]

Now on to more important things: Does this make Dallas better? The Pistons say no, the Suns said yes. The Spurs apparently were delighted at this trade as well. It's funny how wide a range of opinion there is.
huh? I missed something...?

[fyatuk]

Now on to more important things: Does this make Dallas better? The Pistons say no, the Suns said yes. The Spurs apparently were delighted at this trade as well. It's funny how wide a range of opinion there is.

If this is all the Mavs do, it makes them weaker against teams that have a strong inside presence. They need help for Dampier somehow, and that's going to be hard to find. The Spurs will probably abuse them, and the Lakers, Jazz, and the Suns if Shaq is still worth anything. But it's not going to hurt against many of the other teams.

I'm not as concerned about the PG position as many seem to be since in the past the Mavs have often had both Harris and Terry in the game with Stack at forward, so Terry would be guarding the quick pg, etc.

If they get another decent defensive big body, it's a definite improvement for them short term. But they certainly will need to be looking for another young PG to develop in the offseason.

I do think Kidds assists will drop, mostly because the Mavs system, much like the Spurs, is just not condusive to the PG getting assists. He is still one of the best playmakers in the game. Kidd has always had the best court vision in the league and he's still a phenomenal passer, but the Skills challenge showed how much he's slowed down with age.

[Findog]

huh? I missed something...?

I can't find the link, but they asked Chauncey about it, and he said he didn't think it made the Mavs better. A lot of the Suns players were asked about it too and they had the opposite reaction, they thought it improved the Mavs.

[pking]

oh, interesting. hadn't heard any of that.

[Findog]

If this is all the Mavs do, it makes them weaker against teams that have a strong inside presence. They need help for Dampier somehow, and that's going to be hard to find. The Spurs will probably abuse them, and the Lakers, Jazz, and the Suns if Shaq is still worth anything. But it's not going to hurt against many of the other teams.

I'm not as concerned about the PG position as many seem to be since in the past the Mavs have often had both Harris and Terry in the game with Stack at forward, so Terry would be guarding the quick pg, etc.

If they get another decent defensive big body, it's a definite improvement for them short term. But they certainly will need to be looking for another young PG to develop in the offseason.

I do think Kidds assists will drop, mostly because the Mavs system, much like the Spurs, is just not condusive to the PG getting assists. He is still one of the best playmakers in the game. Kidd has always had the best court vision in the league and he's still a phenomenal passer, but the Skills challenge showed how much he's slowed down with age.

In the final analysis, given the scrubs both teams are giving up that don't get any PT, it's Diop and Devin for Kidd. Kidd over Devin, that's an upgrade there. They certainly take a hit with their interior defense with Diop out now, but I'll reserve judgment until after the trade deadline and the time for playoff rosters to be finalized. It's not like Diop was Ben Wallace in his prime, just a useful interior defender that played about 18 minutes a game. There are options out there and hopefully they can find an answer. Offensive half-court execution and the lack of an "alpha dog," for what it's worth, those things have now been addressed. I've always thought the mentally soft chokers thing was overblown, but there was a sliver of truth to it, and the Mavs now have that edge and disposition that they might've been lacking.

[fyatuk]

In the final analysis, given the scrubs both teams are giving up that don't get any PT, it's Diop and Devin for Kidd. Kidd over Devin, that's an upgrade there. They certainly take a hit with their interior defense with Diop out now, but I'll reserve judgment until after the trade deadline and the time for playoff rosters to be finalized. It's not like Diop was Ben Wallace in his prime, just a useful interior defender that played about 18 minutes a game. There are options out there and hopefully they can find an answer. Offensive half-court execution and the lack of an "alpha dog," for what it's worth, those things have now been addressed. I've always thought the mentally soft chokers thing was overblown, but there was a sliver of truth to it, and the Mavs now have that edge and disposition that they might've been lacking.

Quite true. Kidd should be a strong leader. I think the team was trying to lean on Dirk too much as a leader. He doesn't seem to have the personality for it, except on rare occassions.

Diop was just a decent defender with size, but the Spurs have proven to be unable to reliably find even that the last few years, so I won't be surprised if that turns into their downfall.

[mavsfan1000]

Quite true. Kidd should be a strong leader. I think the team was trying to lean on Dirk too much as a leader. He doesn't seem to have the personality for it, except on rare occassions.

Diop was just a decent defender with size, but the Spurs have proven to be unable to reliably find even that the last few years, so I won't be surprised if that turns into their downfall.
Yep Dallas probably won't find a decent defender at Center. Bring back Shawn Bradley, Fortson, and Scott Williams. lol

[m33p0]

lets see who'll push the button this time.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1049/733072866_68f1029874.jpg

[clambake]

just being there, diop made others alter their shots.

thats not in the stats.

[Amarelooms]

just being there, diop made others alter their shots.

thats not in the stats.

Mavs gotta get PJ Brown to holla back :elephant

[ElNono]

C'mon Dallas, git r done...

[clambake]

i think kidd could make bass a monster.

[Amarelooms]

i think kidd could make bass a monster.

Bass has to be our Amare.....BASS LOOMS :elephant

[LEONARD]

How the fuck can the Mavs trade KVH you idiots!!

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84071

:lol

[Amarelooms]

How the fuck can the Mavs trade KVH you idiots!!

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84071

:lol

As long as he states he wants to play and agrees they can...he never retired...so you're the idiot :elephant

[Shank]

How the fuck can the Mavs trade KVH you idiots!!

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84071

:lol

I love that thread. The high and mighties like to bully around on things they know nothing about and call out everyone else.

[StylisticS]

As long as he states he wants to play and agrees they can...he never retired...so you're the idiot :elephant
Um. He was being sarcastic.

[Bruno]

What is the final version of the trade ?
Are Wright and Armstrong in it and will Mavs waive Fazekas ?

[Findog]

What is the final version of the trade ?
Are Wright and Armstrong in it and will Mavs waive Fazekas ?

Last I heard, Fazekas is the likely cut, Wright is coming in a side deal, and no Armstrong.

[Bruno]

Thanks.

[clambake]

stern wants kidd to sign with a contender, just not the mavs.

[LakeShow]

:wakeup No deal yet?

[Brandon Bass]

Bass has to be our Amare.....BASS LOOMS :elephant
LOOMS? I'm already here, bitch!

[LEONARD]

Devin boarded a flight to NJ this morning...


As long as he states he wants to play and agrees they can...he never retired...so you're the idiot :elephant

Read much? :lol