Buck Harvey: Spurs get better, and also richer

[some_user86]

Buck Harvey: Spurs get better, and also richer

Web Posted: 02/20/2008 11:21 PM CST

Buck Harvey
San Antonio Express-News

Kurt Thomas will fit. He will fit somewhere under the armpits of Yao Ming.
He will also fit among other like-minded veterans in the locker room, and he will fit when the Spurs swing the ball in May, with the crowd howling, and they need someone with poise to knock down a 15-foot jumper.

But Thomas also fits into the budget, which is where the Spurs and the other Western Conference powers are so different. While everyone else has spent money this month the way Latrell Sprewell has, the Spurs have found a way to save Peter Holt some.

Will this ever catch up to the Spurs?

The Spurs have won in the past while proving dollars don't produce titles. It's been the hallmark of a well-run franchise.

They've also invested when required, and they did in the summer of 2004. Then they gave a four-year deal to get a versatile shooter from the Sonics, and at least one Seattle columnist thought the Spurs had over-spent. Don't guards begin their decline at his age?

Brent Barry, instead, got better as the years went on. He pressed that first season and went through a slump, but he overcame his yips. He eventually fit with the Spurs, and his humor and commitment to San Antonio will be missed.

The rise of Ime Udoka is what made him expendable. The Spurs had a surplus of wing players, and Barry's expiring contract designated him as the easiest one to trade.

The price might seem high for Thomas, since the Spurs also gave up a 2009 first-round pick for a 35-year-old who might stay in town for just three months. Thomas' contract also expires this summer.

But Thomas fits so well that Phil Jackson joked Wednesday night about collusion. Didn't P.J. Carlesimo help out his old team?

Jackson sees what the Spurs see. In a conference that literally grew this month, the Spurs need someone who plays taller than his 6-foot-9 size.

Thomas will push Yao and the rising Rockets, and he will elbow Shaquille O'Neal and Pau Gasol. As Thomas proved with the Suns last season when he defended Tim Duncan, he's smart and tough.

He will also rebound for a team that often struggles in that area, and he won't merely alternate with Fab Oberto. When Thomas subs for Duncan, the Spurs will have a post player with a reliable jumper.

The Spurs say they never considered trading for Ron Artest this season, not even for a moment, but they tried to land Thomas just before the trade deadline in 2004. Then they parked their charter jet on an airport tarmac while they waited to see if the Knicks would take Malik Rose in exchange.

The trade didn't happen and Rose stayed on the plane. But a year later Rose would head to the Knicks, just as Luis Scola went to Houston last summer, and just as Barry and Cisco Elson go to Seattle now. Basketball mattered in every equation, and so did economics.

It's some contrast compared to others in the West. The Lakers stole Gasol, and by doing so their payroll is already set at $75 million next season. That total will grow when they eventually re-sign Andrew Bynum.

The same Suns who dumped Thomas last summer to save money took on Shaquille O'Neal and his $20 million. Because of that, they are scheduled to pay eight players about $70 million next season.

And then there is Mark Cuban, the billionaire with the league's highest payroll. He's already committed about $70 million to seven players next season.

The Spurs actually made money Wednesday. Thomas' contract is about $500,000 less than the combined total of Barry's and Elson's.

The difference likely puts the Spurs under the luxury-tax plateau. Instead of paying a small tax, the Spurs could be in for a rebate worth as much as $2 million.

If the Spurs win this season, they will be celebrated for this. They will have done more with less yet again, and they will be applauded.

But if this is the future? With opponents willing to spend whatever is necessary?

Then there's reason to wonder if the Spurs fit.

[email protected]

LINK: http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA022108.01C.buckharvey.en.38c573b.html

[Russ]

Buck Harvey
San Antonio Express-News
The same Suns who dumped Thomas last summer to save money took on Shaquille O'Neal and his $20 million.
Uh, Buck, that's a different Thomas. :)

Edit --

Nope, sorry Buck -- my bad.

[ChumpDumper]

But if this is the future? With opponents willing to spend whatever is necessary?Only the Knicks are still free spending -- and the days of that look numbered as well.

[Holt's Cat]

Spurs have roughly $53 mil committed next season.

[some_user86]

Uh, Buck, that's a different Thomas. :)

No, I think he got it right... KT was traded to Seattle last summer (Summer 2007) to save money.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

While everyone else has spent money this month the way Latrell Sprewell has, the Spurs have found a way to save Peter Holt some.nice one, buck

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

That's something we rarely stick in the faces of the opposition trolls who come in here - no only do the Spurs win, but they do it on a budget. Most of our major rivals spend more than we do, and still we have 3 trophies in 5 years. Suns, Lakers and Mavs trolls TAKE NOTICE.

In general, what an interesting season this has turned out to be for the whole NBA - and the most facsinating trade deadline I can remember (I think there was more interesting player movement in the 90s, but my memory of details is hazy).

[Russ]

That's something we rarely stick in the faces of the opposition trolls who come in here - no only do the Spurs win, but they do it on a budget.

Charley Finley would be proud. :)

[Solid D]

Will Elson even wear a Sonics uni?

[Louie Vega]

Hooray for Holt! The cheapest motherfucken owner in sports today! Cheap bastard won't even give away a damn T shirt during the Finals!

[Solid D]

Hooray for Holt! The cheapest m********** owner in sports today! Cheap b****** won't even give away a damn T shirt during the Finals!

You'd probably just get paint or mustard on it anyways.

[some_user86]

Hooray for Holt! The cheapest motherfucken owner in sports today! Cheap bastard won't even give away a damn T shirt during the Finals!

WTF are you complaining about? It was a good deal. Idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

Hooray for Holt! The cheapest motherfucken owner in sports today! Cheap bastard won't even give away a damn T shirt during the Finals!How many finals tickets did you buy?

[Princess Pimp]

The old getting older...

[whottt]

Too bad Pop hates Artest...could have saved money that way too and got a guy that no one else matches up well with, who is a DPOY candidate, and who is much younger than Thomas as well.

[ChumpDumper]

Too bad Pop hates Artest...could have saved money that way too and got a guy that no one else matches up well with, who is a DPOY candidate, and who is much younger than Thomas as well.
Are we going to pretend that that trade package could have gotten Artest?

[Princess Pimp]

Spurs Answer Back, Acquire Kurt Thomas
Posted by Chris Bernucca on Feb. 20, 2008 at 11:25 p.m. ET


With the acquisition of rugged forward Kurt Thomas by the defending NBA champion San Antonio Spurs, the wheeling and dealing in the Western Conference has come full circle.

It was the Spurs who triggered a series of moves by championship contenders when they signed free agent guard Damon Stoudamire less than a month ago. After watching Phoenix, the Los Angeles Lakers and Dallas acquire superstars, San Antonio has countered as well.

The Spurs sent veteran guard Brent Barry, reserve big Francisco Elson and a 2009 first-round pick to the SuperSonics for Thomas, who should help Tim Duncan and Fabricio Oberto defend the low post against Phoenix's Shaquille O'NealLos Angeles' Pau Gasol in a potential playoff matchup.

GM R.C. Buford and coach Gregg Popovich found a familiar willing business partner in Sonics GM sam Presti, who was Buford's assistant until taking the Seattle job last summer.

No word whether Memphis GM Chris Wallace believes the deal is "beyond comprehension."

Thomas should fit right in with the Spurs, given his seasoning and postseason experience. The 13-year veteran was a member of the 1999 Knicks squad that reached the Finals, losing to the Spurs.

[Mister Sinister]

Spurs Answer Back, Acquire Kurt Thomas
Posted by Chris Bernucca on Feb. 20, 2008 at 11:25 p.m. ET


With the acquisition of rugged forward Kurt Thomas by the defending NBA champion San Antonio Spurs, the wheeling and dealing in the Western Conference has come full circle.

It was the Spurs who triggered a series of moves by championship contenders when they signed free agent guard Damon Stoudamire less than a month ago. After watching Phoenix, the Los Angeles Lakers and Dallas acquire superstars, San Antonio has countered as well.

The Spurs sent veteran guard Brent Barry, reserve big Francisco Elson and a 2009 first-round pick to the SuperSonics for Thomas, who should help Tim Duncan and Fabricio Oberto defend the low post against Phoenix's Shaquille O'NealLos Angeles' Pau Gasol in a potential playoff matchup.

GM R.C. Buford and coach Gregg Popovich found a familiar willing business partner in Sonics GM sam Presti, who was Buford's assistant until taking the Seattle job last summer.

No word whether Memphis GM Chris Wallace believes the deal is "beyond comprehension."

Thomas should fit right in with the Spurs, given his seasoning and postseason experience. The 13-year veteran was a member of the 1999 Knicks squad that reached the Finals, losing to the Spurs.
facepalm.jpg

[Princess Pimp]

35 years old!!! LOL

[ChumpDumper]

Suns lost.

[Princess Pimp]

We dumped this guy for a second rounder, you signed him for 2 players and a first round pick!!!! LOL :lol

[ChumpDumper]

We dumped this guy for a second rounder, you signed him for 2 players and a first round pick!!!! LOL :lolYour owner is cheaper than ours.

Suns lost.

[Solid D]

We dumped this guy for a second rounder, you signed him for 2 players and a first round pick!!!! LOL :lol

You dumped this guy for a second rounder. :lol

[whottt]

Are we going to pretend that that trade package could have gotten Artest?

Until the Nuggets don't get him for basically the same thing only subbing Kleiza for Ian or Splitter...Yeah.


You did see Harvey stating that the Spurs never even attempted it...

I've never been against landing Artest, I've only been against the idea that Pop would do it...

Artest remains the only guy I've ever seen Pop go after in the media completely unprovoked(the year the Pacers were sending out flyers) and so I'm pretty sure if the Spurs didn't try it, it's because Pop didn't want him on this team.


Let's just wait see what the Kings end up getting for him...

[Princess Pimp]

Spurs good at going after leftovers...

Picking up NBA rejects is your specialty.

Great GM of yours!

[Mister Sinister]

Spurs good at going after leftovers...

Picking up NBA rejects is you specialty.

Great GM of yours!
moron.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

Until the Nuggets don;t get him for basically the same thing only subbing Kleiza for Ian or Splitter...Kleiza actually plays in the NBA, he is by definition > Splitter or Ian.
You did see Harvey stating that the Spurs never even attempted it...Actually I saw a quote from RC saying Artest's name never left his lips. I'm sure it was all done by email and texts.

[genomefreak13]

Udoka never made Brent expendable. It's the nature of his contract that made him a trade bait. Elson is the one which is intended to be shipped out, unfortunately, no team would trade for him unless he comes with another (quality)player. Brent - the most - could be considered as a victim of Elson. If only he performed to his potentials we could have saved Barry from being thrown down to the pit (seattle).

[whottt]

Kleiza actually plays in the NBA, he is by definition > Splitter or Ian.

And Splitter and Ian will both be in the NBA by next season...and both have more upside than Kleiza.

[ChumpDumper]

And Splitter and Ian will both be in the NBA by next season...and both have more upside than Kleiza.Thanks for agreeing with me.

[kskonn]

35 years old!!! LOL


I always forget, how old is shaq, nash, and Hill? I would even go as far to say that KT might even have more effect in the playoffs than shaq, maybe not as many stats, but I bet he does more with the time he gets. This is a guy that took it to the spurs in the playoffs last year, he kept the suns in the game for half of the series.

[whottt]

Thanks for agreeing with me.


:yawn:

Do you think Kleiza is going to end up a better NBA player than Ian or Splitter?

Yes, or no?

Because the Kings aren't playing for this season........



And why would the Spurs say they never even considered Artest? What purpose does that serve?

[Princess Pimp]

I always forget, how old is shaq, nash, and Hill? I would even go as far to say that KT might even have more effect in the playoffs than shaq, maybe not as many stats, but I bet he does more with the time he gets. This is a guy that took it to the spurs in the playoffs last year, he kept the suns in the game for half of the series.


Well, apparently he's not all that since the Suns gave him away for a second round pick. :lol

[whottt]

What do the Nuggets have to do with it?

[IceColdBrewski]

Spurs good at going after leftovers...and turning them into Champions.

Great GM!

Fixed.

[ChumpDumper]

What do the Nuggets have to do with it?Pardon me. I couldn't tell you why the Kings would really turn that down except they have to get rid of some of the other big men first.

Ultimately I think Artest doesn't move until the summer. Petrie is under no pressure to move him for shit right now. Same thing with Mike Miller and his GM Wallace.

[whottt]

What purpose does saying they tried really really really really hard for Artest and had to settle for Thomas?

What's wrong with upping the price teams will have to pay to get Artest?

[peskypesky]

Well, apparently he's not all that since the Suns gave him away for a second round pick. :lol
Suns didn't value him because they didn't believe in defense. Which is why they have ZERO Championships. :ihit

[ChumpDumper]

What's wrong with upping the price teams will have to pay to get Artest?If it's already higher than what the Spurs were going to offer, it really doesn't matter.

Petrie got bent over for the Bibby deal to cut payroll. Now he can actually play GM when it comes to trading Artest.

[whottt]

Ultimately I think Artest doesn't move until the summer. Petrie is under no pressure to move him for shit right now. Same thing with Mike Miller and his GM Wallace.


If that happens great...however, if the Nuggets wind up with him for what basically SA could have offered(and become an even become an even bigger bitch to deal with in the process)...I'll have a problem with the Spurs settling for Thomas.


There's just no way anyone is going to convince me Artest and Thomas are equally beneficial pickups. Hell Artest is probably better equipped to guard Shaq than half the bigs on our roster anyway.

[ChumpDumper]

If that happens great...however, if the Nuggets wind up with him for what basically SA could have offered(and become an even become an even bigger bitch to deal with in the process)...I'll have a problem with the Spurs settling for Thomas.


There's just no way anyone is going to convince me Artest and Thomas are equally beneficial pickups. Hell Artest is probably better equipped to guard Shaq than half the bigs on our roster anyway.That's why I think his asking price is higher.

[whottt]

If it's already higher than what the Spurs were going to offer, it really doesn't matter.

Petrie got bent over for the Bibby deal to cut payroll. Now he can actually play GM when it comes to trading Artest.



That's great...but all reports say Kleiza was the sticking point.


I have a hard time believing that the Spurs won't trade one of Ian or Splitter eventually..and if they don't we'll be pretty green next season.


And saying they were heavily interested in Artest would only increase the likelyhood that whichever team lands him would have to give up more to get him this season...and or decreases the likelyhood he will be dealt. Which benefits us...And I don't think it would hurt Kurt Thomas' feelings in the slightest...because I don't think he thinks he's a better than Artest either...only Marcus Bryant, Pop, and Thomas' mother have that opinion.

[K-State Spur]

Suns didn't value him because they didn't believe in defense. Which is why they have ZERO Championships. :ihit

you're talking about a fan base that added shaq and thinks that he will defend the paint against all-comers.

they value defense, they just have no clue what it looks like.

[ChumpDumper]

That's great...but all reports say Kleiza was the sticking point. We have 15 hours or so....

[whottt]

That's why I think his asking price is higher.


I hope you're right...and I hope Artest winds up on the Kings roster for the remainder of the season. It'll be a huge problem for us if he winds up on the Nuggets. I think he'll pretty much make them unbeatable.....and we'll be forced to hope that Karl has a hard time integrating him into the team this season.

[peskypesky]

I hope you're right...and I hope Artest winds up on the Kings roster for the remainder of the season. It'll be a huge problem for us if he winds up on the Nuggets. I think he'll pretty much make them unbeatable.....and we'll be forced to hope that Karl has a hard time integrating him into the team this season.

AI, Carmelo, Artest and K-Mart all on the same team? And you think they'll be unbeatable? GTFO. That's a train wreck waiting to happen.

[ChumpDumper]

Wallace found it pretty easy to shut down the Miller talks -- and he's under more pressure to deal than Petrie. The Kings might think they could package Artest in a sign-and-trade this summer. Who knows?

I guess GiG does, but some guy hurt his feelings and he won't talk anymore.

[whottt]

AI, Carmelo, Artest and K-Mart all on the same team? And you think they'll be unbeatable? GTFO. That's a train wreck waiting to happen.


Longterm it'll be a trainwreck...shorterm it will be one hell of a honeymoon....we'll seriously have to hope that Karl doesn't know what to do.


If the Nuggets land Artest they'll have 4/5ths of a starting lineup comprised of MVP candidates and DPOY candidates...that's just fucking nasty.


And I don't really see the AI/Melo pairing as a trainwreck so far...in fact I see it as a real bitch....

[K-State Spur]

Longterm it'll be a trainwreck...shorterm it will be one hell of a honeymoon....

you'd have 3 guys complaining about the number of shots within a week.

artest, even when he's on his best behavior, thinks that he's a #1 option on offense, not a #3 (or lower)

[kskonn]

Well, apparently he's not all that since the Suns gave him away for a second round pick. :lol

You obviously missed the point. The fact that you are calling out the spurs for signing a 35 YO second, possibly 3rd string Role player and you guys have your core pushing that age, besides Stoudemire you have nash (34 yo), Shaq (35 yo, 36 in march) Grant Hill (35 yo).

Not to mention the spurs sign a guy that fits in their style, will add a legit backup to Duncan when Oberto is on the floor, and the suns added shaq who will require the whole suns team to adjust to make him effective.

Also a suns fan should know and admit that your team did not give up Thomas because they did not see value, it was purely a cost cutting measure due to their inflated pay roll.

[whottt]

you'd have 3 guys complaining about the number of shots within a week.

I don't think so...it hasn't happened with AI and Melo yet.





artest, even when he's on his best behavior, thinks that he's a #1 option on offense, not a #3 (or lower)


And you know what? On every team he's been on the past 5 years...he's been right to think that.


I fail to see where he is misguided...

It won't be the case with Denver, and I don't think he'll complain. He definitely won't complain the rest of this season.

[K-State Spur]

I don't think so...it hasn't happened with AI and Melo yet.






2 guys who take a lot of shots vs. 3. 3 is 50% more than 2.

[whottt]

2 guys who take a lot of shots vs. 3. 3 is 50% more than 2.



Yeah...but the thing is, the reason they aren't complaining is because they want a title...the pairing is costing both of them scoring titles. I think Ron also wants to win a title.



The last 5 years, I hear Artest sayign he should be the #1 option on his team...I look at his teams...Jamal Tinsley, Brad Miller, Mike Bibby, Jermain O'Neal...and I say...You know? Artest has a point.

I don't really see where he's wrong to say that...he is a more suitable #1 option that most of those guys, at worst he's an even draw offensively, who plays better defense and puts out more effort....


I don't see anything unrealistic about him saying that...in fact I agree with him.


I don't hear him saying he should be a #1 option over guys like AI and Carmelo...just show me where he's been unreasonable and I'll concede you have a valid point.

We have a hell of a lot tougher time matching up with him than we do Bibby, Miller and O'Neal...

[Ghost Writer]

A couple of reactions:

1. I agree that Barry's contract and the team rolling without him for much of the season made him expendable... Udoka is more closely linked with Bowen's decreased workload.

2. I don't buy that the Spurs did not at least consider Artest... CIA Pop?

3. I don't think the same package could've gotten Artest.

4. It would be interesting to create a ratio of a team's payroll vs. that team's winning percentage (regular season and playoffs).

5. Anyone got any stats for how profitable NBA franchises have been in recent years (I want to know how the Spurs are from a profit standpoint).

[Holt's Cat]

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/32/biz_07nba_NBA-Team-Valuations_Rank.html

[ploto]

Actually I saw a quote from RC saying Artest's name never left his lips. I'm sure it was all done by email and texts.
Like the time Pop said he never had a discussion with the Knicks about trading Malik Rose-- of course he didn't, RC did.

[Ryvin1]

Spurs good at going after leftovers...

Picking up NBA rejects is your specialty.

Great GM of yours!

You left off the part about picking up Championship trophys with said rejects while staying under the lux tax.. Taking the leftovers and making you eat it.

[michaelwcho]

A couple of reactions:


5. Anyone got any stats for how profitable NBA franchises have been in recent years (I want to know how the Spurs are from a profit standpoint).

No stats, but the Spurs ain't making more money than the Lakers, luxury tax be damned. I live in Phoenix, and I see more Lakers crap around here than Suns.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Spurs good at going after leftovers...

Picking up NBA rejects is your specialty.

Great GM of yours!


:sleep

[ambchang]

Too bad Pop hates Artest...could have saved money that way too and got a guy that no one else matches up well with, who is a DPOY candidate, and who is much younger than Thomas as well.

Ron Artest:
RS FG% PO FG%
2002 42.3% 40.7%
2003 42.8% 38.9%
2004 42.1% 37.8%
2006 40.4% 38.3%

Not only does the guy's FG% during the regular season sucks, they actually drop substantially during the playoffs. And that is on TOP of his habit of pounding the ball forever, killing any offensive flow.

Kurt Thomas:
RS FG% PO FG%
1996 50.1% 40%
1999 46.2% 38.1%
2000 50.5% 50.8%
2001 51.1% 53.2%
2004 47.3% 42.9%
2007 51.3% 52.3%

Rather than a consistent drop in FG%, Thomas has 3 seasons where he stayed near his RS #s in the PO, and 3 seasons where there was a substantial drop. Not to mention that Thomas does not dominate the offense, has a sweet 15 foot jumper for a big man, and is a tough low post defender, rebounder.

One is a psycho who ballhogs, the other is a tough guy who does the dirty work. I will choose the later every day of the week.

[ChumpDumper]

I hope you're right...and I hope Artest winds up on the Kings roster for the remainder of the season.Looks like Artest is still a King.

[E20]

Looks like Artest is still a King.
:rolleyes :dramaquee