US Embassy in Belgrade burning.

[Slomo]

No link. Just saw footage of it on our local news.

[Slomo]

Looks like it's only on the outside. Serbian police reacting slowly.

Doesn't look too bad. They should extinguish it though.

[1369]

CNN.com running a banner stating that it was protesters that broke in and set fire to the facade.

[Slomo]

Yes that's it. While the fire didn't look too bad, the worrying part was that there was no reaction by the local police for a long while. The protesters dispersed after the police started throwing tear gas. This was a small group of protesters - not the main group of some 150.000 protesters that are currently attending mass at the main Belgrade cathedral.

There's no current video coverage of the situation on Embassy row on any of the local channels (at least not on any of their satellite feeds).

[1369]

150K worth of protestors? What are they all fired up about?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

150K worth of protestors? What are they all fired up about?Kosovo... what else

[Slomo]

Are you serious?

Kosovo declared independence on Sunday and their independence has been recognized by quite a few western countries (USA among the first to do so).

On Saturday there were bomb threats in some shopping malls owned by a Slovenian corporation (one small bomb actually went off). Then on Sunday they destroyed the Slovenian Embassy (We're currently presiding over the EU so it was a logical first target).

The Serbian government organized a massive demonstration for today expecting a million people (there estimate is that 500k showed up) school was canceled for today and railway trips to and from Belgrade were free.

A small group of demonstrator attacked the US embassy first, but then moved to the Croatian embassy and more embassies down the street (it's popularly known as embassy row since most embassies in Belgrade are on that street).

News are coming in now that the fire in the US embassy has been extinguished. Allegedly the embassy was empty at the moment of the attack.

[Slomo]

Correction: a Serbian journalist just said on air that 2 floors of the US embassy are burning and that firefighters are trying to extinguish it.

[1369]

Are you serious?

Kosovo declared independence on Sunday and their independence has been recognized by quite a few western countries (USA among the first to do so).

On Saturday there were bomb threats in some shopping malls owned by a Slovenian corporation (one small bomb actually went off). Then on Sunday they destroyed the Slovenian Embassy (We're currently presiding over the EU so it was a logical first target).

The Serbian government organized a massive demonstration for today expecting a million people (there estimate is that 500k showed up) school was canceled for today and railway trips to and from Belgrade were free.

A small group of demonstrator attacked the US embassy first, but then moved to the Croatian embassy and more embassies down the street (it's popularly known as embassy row since most embassies in Belgrade are on that street).

News are coming in now that the fire in the US embassy has been extinguished. Allegedly the embassy was empty at the moment of the attack.

Well, color me a dumbass for not putting two and two together. :dizzy

[Slomo]

Well, color me a dumbass for not putting two and two together. :dizzy:lol

We tend to forget that it's not obvious to everyone how a huge a deal the secession of Kosovo is to the Serbs.

While I think they have only themselves to blame (they mistreated the Kosovo Albanians for years), I can appreciate how big of a blow it is to the Serbian nation.

In all fairness the vaste majority of prostesters did exactly what they said they would - calmly protest in the street of Belgrade.

[1369]

While I think they have only themselves to blame (they mistreated the Kosovo Albanians for years), I can appreciate how big of a blow it is to the Serbian nation.


One of the talking heads (Richard Holbrooke) on the CNN.com stream said exactly that. He was also saying that the Russians were behind the protests (i.e. inciting the extremists).

Did all the EU member nations endorse Kosovo's independence?

[Slomo]

One of the talking heads (Richard Holbrooke) on the CNN.com stream said exactly that. He was also saying that the Russians were behind the protests (i.e. inciting the extremists).

Did all the EU member nations endorse Kosovo's independence?Yes and no.

Officially they didn't. Countries like Spain, Cyprus, Slovakia, Greece... that themselves have unresolved issues with minorities or separatist movements did not recognize the secession. But at the same time the EU voted yesterday to send both personnel and equipment into Kosovo to assist during the transition period and the decision was unanimous. So it's a case where they all agree, but for interior political reasons have to protest it. I expect those countries to quietly recognize Kosovo's independence after some time has past (ie after Kosovo's entry in the UN).

Russia is also worried about it's own separatist minorities, but I suspect they are also trying to affirm themselves as a global player and are supporting the Serbs to spite the West (possibly get some political gain out of this). It's a dangerous game, because some structures could take their support too seriously and act in a manner that they otherwise wouldn't (tonight's attack of the embassies is a good example of that).

[Extra Stout]

The Serbs will do anything for Kosovo except live there.

[xrayzebra]

You know the way OUR media has reported on things over there
it is a wonder anyone knows much of anything about who is
what. Seldom do they publish the fact that the Muslims are on
one side and Christians on the other. Just the words ethnic
cleansing used about a million times.

[DarkReign]

The Serbs will do anything for Kosovo except live there.

Well, the small bit of research I just did (wiki) tells me why they wont.

Religion is the most divisive institution in the history of man.

[Nbadan]

'Body Found' After US Embassy Riot


By Sky News SkyNews - 22 minutes ago - A body has reportedly been found in the US embassy in Belgrade after rioters set an office on fire during a massive protest against Kosovo's independence.

Serb police had not been protecting the building, which was closed and boarded up following violence earlier in the week.

Black smoke billowed out of the embassy in the capital city.

Papers and chairs were thrown out of the windows and burning doors were wedged in their frames.

One protester climbed up to the first floor of the building, ripped the Stars and Stripes off its pole and briefly put up a Serbian flag in its place.

Some rioters also jumped up and down on the embassy balcony and waved a Serbian flag, as the 1,000-strong crowd below cheered them on, shouting "Serbia, Serbia".

Yahoo (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/skynews/20080221/twl-body-found-after-us-embassy-riot-3fd0ae9.html)

[01Snake]

One protester climbed up to the first floor of the building, ripped the Stars and Stripes off its pole and briefly put up a Serbian flag in its place.

Is Croutons on vacation?

[Extra Stout]

In other news, the Greeks are still mad about the whole Constantinople thing.

[Extra Stout]

In other news, a lot of Germans are still mad about the whole Königsberg thing.

[Extra Stout]

In other news, people who burn embassies down on account of ethno-religious irredentism are barbarians who have no business being allowed in the EU.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

The USA and UN have proped up 3 consecutive international war criminals , drug, traffickers, and sex slave traders as the "interim" prime ministers of Kosovo -- including the current Prime minister, who was head of the former KLA, now called KCP or something, whose "liberation army" trained with al-qaeda and recevied millions from bin-Laden for funding. The PM just recently recognized by the UN and the US is the worst of the three with clear and strong ties to bin laden -- and atrocious record of mass murder and drug smuggling of heroine to greece, Germany and the US, etc...... YET -- he's on OUR side.

We fight in Iraq for al-qaeda even though they aren't there.........

[DarkReign]

The USA and UN have proped up 3 consecutive international war criminals , drug, traffickers, and sex slave traders as the "interim" prime ministers of Kosovo -- including the current Prime minister, who was head of the former KLA, now called KCP or something, whose "liberation army" trained with al-qaeda and recevied millions from bin-Laden for funding. The PM just recently recognized by the UN and the US is the worst of the three with clear and strong ties to bin laden -- and atrocious record of mass murder and drug smuggling of heroine to greece, Germany and the US, etc...... YET -- he's on OUR side.

New to American politics?

[boutons_]

I'm sure dubya will send over the forever-excellent Condi to fix up this mess quickly.

[ploto]

It is more complicated than people realize.

Kosovo is sacred to the Serbian people.

[Bob Lanier]

They should burn the German and French embassies as well. The entire fucking mess since the destruction of Milosevic's government has been the responsibility of the European part of NATO's bloodthirstiness, not primarily the United States.

Recognition of their sorry-ass splinter province is the one of the silliest possible reason to start fires, which I suppose is why the fires are burning.

[ashbeeigh]

I rarely venture in here, but feel like I'd just pop in to say a little bit about the Kosovo thing.

There are several students that are currently attending TLU that are from Kosovo and were/are adamant supporters of the independence movement, as am I. And all these events just sadden me. I can't honestly say that I can understand how it feels to live in the Balkans under such tense circumstances as these, but my goodness. They just need to have their independence recognized and move on to bigger and better things. It's a horrible situation for everyone involved.

Oh and morepictures (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331811,00.html)

[ChuckD]

It is more complicated than people realize.
Kosovo is sacred to the Serbian people.

In other news, the Greeks are still mad about the whole Constantinople thing.

In other news, a lot of Germans are still mad about the whole Königsberg thing.

The Serbs will do anything for Kosovo except live there.

[Extra Stout]

It is more complicated than people realize.

Kosovo is sacred to the Serbian people.
The Hagia Sophia is sacred to the Greeks. Mt. Ararat is sacred to the Armenians. Al-Andalus is sacred to the Arabs. Jerusalem is sacred to Jews, Muslims, and Christians.

I know the answer -- let's settle it by war!

[ploto]

There are several students that are currently attending TLU that are from Kosovo and were/are adamant supporters of the independence movement, as am I. And all these events just sadden me. I can't honestly say that I can understand how it feels to live in the Balkans under such tense circumstances as these, but my goodness. They just need to have their independence recognized and move on to bigger and better things. It's a horrible situation for everyone involved.

So you support the indpendence of Texas from the United States if a Mexican majority in the state vote to declare independence?

[Yonivore]

So you support the indpendence of Texas from the United States if a Mexican majority in the state vote to declare independence?
You won't find a Mexican majority in Texas, here legally, that would be that stupid.

Balkans <> North America.

[ploto]

You won't find a Mexican majority in Texas, here legally, that would be that stupid.

In 1990, Texas was 25% Hispanic. In 2000, Texas was 32% Hispanic. By 2006, 36% Hispanic and rising rapidly. So the day will come when Texas is a majority Hispanic population. At that time, do they as the majority have the right to vote for independence from the US, especially given that the land was part of Mexico before?

I also find it the utmost of hypocrisy for anyone in the US to put themselves on a high pedestal looking down given the history of this country- its own wars to acquire land, its own Civil War, and its own treatment of slaves and Native Americans.

[Extra Stout]

So you support the indpendence of Texas from the United States if a Mexican majority in the state vote to declare independence?
If the United States were a state organized around the nationalism of a single ethnic group, which it is not, and if Texas had a supermajority of Hispanics for centuries, and if those Hispanics were denied basic human rights on account of their ethnicity and religion, which they are not, and if Anglos attempted repeatedly to drive them out by force, then yeah, I think I'd be pretty sympathetic to their plight if they wanted to leave the U.S.

[Extra Stout]

I also find it the utmost of hypocrisy for anyone in the US to put themselves on a high pedestal looking down given the history of this country- its own wars to acquire land, its own Civil War, and its own treatment of slaves and Native Americans.
Oh, so I guess we better give up the idea of trying to promote human rights, since every nation has blood on their hands.

You have Slavic ancestors, so you're siding with the Slavs. That makes you a racist.

[Extra Stout]

I think the two northern provinces of Kosovo, which have Serb majorities, should be remanded back to Serbia.

[Slomo]

So you support the indpendence of Texas from the United States if a Mexican majority in the state vote to declare independence?If that vote comes after decades of oppression and killing of innocent Mexican by the white minority with the help of the neighboring states - yes absolutely.

Never in its history were the Serbs the majority ethnic group. The only "sacred" part are the churches and monasteries that the Serbs built in Kosovo to commemorate being defeated by the Otoman empire. During that battle Kosovo Albanians fought side by side with Serbs and never opposed the building of the churches and monasteries - which btw were never defaced by the Kosovars. They were actually living together pretty well until 1912 (albeit under the rule of the Turks).

It is only later that the Serbs started laying claims to Kosovo and enforcing those with violence. Claims to a territory that belongs to the Kosovars as much as it did the Serbs up to that point.

So when the systematic oppression by the Serbs reached new heights under the Milosevic regime, the faith of Kosovo was sealed. The Serbs really don't have anybody to blame but themselves.

I know you like to stir up debates, but that comparison doesn't work.



They should burn the German and French embassies as well. The entire fucking mess since the destruction of Milosevic's government has been the responsibility of the European part of NATO's bloodthirstiness, not primarily the United States.

Recognition of their sorry-ass splinter province is the one of the silliest possible reason to start fires, which I suppose is why the fires are burning.That you don't know much about European politics would be acceptable (it would be nice of you refrained comenting on it, but again not that surprising). But actually not knowing much about the foreign policies of your own country is just sad.


The USA and UN have proped up 3 consecutive international war criminals , drug, traffickers, and sex slave traders as the "interim" prime ministers of Kosovo -- including the current Prime minister, who was head of the former KLA, now called KCP or something, whose "liberation army" trained with al-qaeda and recevied millions from bin-Laden for funding. The PM just recently recognized by the UN and the US is the worst of the three with clear and strong ties to bin laden -- and atrocious record of mass murder and drug smuggling of heroine to greece, Germany and the US, etc...... YET -- he's on OUR side.

We fight in Iraq for al-qaeda even though they aren't there.........I'd love to see any proof of what you just wrote.

Actually the US was very much opposed to the current PM being elected mainly because of his Kosovo Liberation Army ties. The consensus was that a militant PM is not the best solution for peace in the region and there were doubts about his behaviour while comanding the liberation army (he has so far proven those fears wrong). The US did all that was in their power to promote the other candidates, but stopped short of meddling with the election process itself (fair enough - wouldn't you say?).


You know the way OUR media has reported on things over there
it is a wonder anyone knows much of anything about who is
what. Seldom do they publish the fact that the Muslims are on
one side and Christians on the other. Just the words ethnic
cleansing used about a million times.What are you saying? This is a religious conflict? Since one side is Muslim and the other is Christian there is that element. But religion is not at the source of the conflict, ethnicity is - which would make the use of the term "ethnic cleansing" appropriate.

I personally hate that term. Cleansing implies to clean, to get rid of the dirt or filth. It sounds as a positive thing - the act itself doesn't deserve any positive attribute, the act itself if too dirty to be described with the use of the word "clean" in any form.

[xrayzebra]

What are you saying? This is a religious conflict? Since one side is Muslim and the other is Christian there is that element. But religion is not at the source of the conflict, ethnicity is - which would make the use of the term "ethnic cleansing" appropriate.

I personally hate that term. Cleansing implies to clean, to get rid of the dirt or filth. It sounds as a positive thing - the act itself doesn't deserve any positive attribute, the act itself if too dirty to be described with the use of the word "clean" in any form.

From what I have read in our media, yes, there is
the religious side to the conflict. I also understand that
AQ or Muslim militants are/were heavily involved in
the conflict. I could be very wrong in my assumption and
will concede to your point of view, since you are there
and know better than anyone else what is going on.
My view of the history of that region is very limited.
Really I was attempting to point out that OUR media
has only given the American people a limited amount
of information on the whole conflict. The ethnic cleansing
seemed to fit their bill nicely. But damn little background
was ever offered. And I must confess I along with
most Americans I didn't make a great effort to learn the
whole of the conflict. I could never understand how
Tito kept such a tight rein on things and war between
the different elements never "openly" surfaced to my
knowledge.

[ploto]

You have Slavic ancestors, so you're siding with the Slavs. That makes you a racist.
No, I have friends from Serbia, and I feel for them because they personally have no responsibility for what has happened in Kosovo, but they are hurt by this. I care about individuals who matter to me.

[PixelPusher]

No, I have friends from Serbia, and I feel for them because they personally have no responsibility for what has happened in Kosovo, but they are hurt by this. I care about individuals who matter to me.
How, exactly, are they "hurt" by this? Do you mean their pride?

[Slomo]

From what I have read in our media, yes, there is
the religious side to the conflict. I also understand that
AQ or Muslim militants are/were heavily involved in
the conflict. I could be very wrong in my assumption and
will concede to your point of view, since you are there
and know better than anyone else what is going on.
My view of the history of that region is very limited.
Really I was attempting to point out that OUR media
has only given the American people a limited amount
of information on the whole conflict. The ethnic cleansing
seemed to fit their bill nicely. But damn little background
was ever offered. And I must confess I along with
most Americans I didn't make a great effort to learn the
whole of the conflict. I could never understand how
Tito kept such a tight rein on things and war between
the different elements never "openly" surfaced to my
knowledge.As I said in my previous post it is a case where the two sides are from different religions. But this conflict has its roots in the ethnic and historical differences (of course the religious differences also didn't help).

Tito was a very charismatic leader and a very savvy diplomat. He was a master of the carrot and stick method, which was used a lot in Kosovo. As a result the infrastructure of the region was really on par with the rest of the country in 1991. He also put a lot of people in jails (that's what dictators do), but he was very even in these practices and therefore enjoyed a high level of trust among Serbs and Kosovars. Of course it was very much linked to the person, so when he died things disintegrated pretty fast (the same could be said about the Croats and Serbs living in harmony in one country).

I don't want to label all Serbs as bad. Any blanket statement about any nation or country can only be labeled as racist. I am however very much disappointed in how the Serbs as a nation handled the issue. I worked a lot in Belgrade during the period 1986 - 1991 and I don't remember a single Serb group or individual speaking up against how the Kosovars were treated. If I would have heard such a voice I would be able to sympathize with the Serbs a lot more than I am.

[Wild Cobra]

In 1990, Texas was 25% Hispanic. In 2000, Texas was 32% Hispanic. By 2006, 36% Hispanic and rising rapidly. So the day will come when Texas is a majority Hispanic population. At that time, do they as the majority have the right to vote for independence from the US, especially given that the land was part of Mexico before?

I also find it the utmost of hypocrisy for anyone in the US to put themselves on a high pedestal looking down given the history of this country- its own wars to acquire land, its own Civil War, and its own treatment of slaves and Native Americans.

I will assume the numbers are correct and bring up this point. Many of those people are legal citizens and would not vote to succeed. They would be lucky in my view to have half the Latino population want to succeed, that would mean it would need to clime to near 100%.

[ChumpDumper]

I would like to thank Slomo for providing a tonic for all the ignorance that has been laid down in this thread.

[DarkReign]

...annnnnd I was wrong. Here I thought it was a Muslim vs Christian conflict. :tu Slomo