did the phoenix win against the celtics change your mind?

[td4mvp3]

think they finally make it past the spurs thanks to shaq, a reinvigorated amare, solid grant hill, pesky raja and circus-shot nash?

[xtremesteven33]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Celtics looked like a D-league out there...and it was NOT due to Phoenixs defense either. It was more of a Celtics lose then a Suns win.
Right when i want Celtics to win. ( to help us in the Western Conference)....
Stupid Celtics.....

[td4mvp3]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Celtics looked like a D-league out there...and it was NOT due to Phoenixs defense either. It was more of a Celtics lose then a Suns win.
Right when i want Celtics to win. ( to help us in the Western Conference)....
Stupid Celtics.....
see, that's what i couldn't figure out. i kept thinking "the suns don't really do defense, but maybe shaq has inspired them," there just seemed to be a lot of clogged lanes and deflections on both ends of the court.

[ThomasGranger]

It's a rare night when Allen and Pierce shoot a combined 5-25. Phoenix played well but Boston flat out sucked.

[Radiosparks]

I would hardly say it was all defense by the Suns. Pierce 2-13 and Allen 3-12 from the field would make any defense look good. On the other hand, the Celtics held the run and gun Suns to only 85 points in their own building.

The Suns will get pwned!

[Rummpd]

Celtics have no one like the true best trio inDuncan, Parker and GINOBILI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (+ a great player named Bowen to shut down the Suns perimeter players).

[dbestpro]

No, Boston is 12-9 in there last 21 games and the played the Suns on the road. The Suns were suppose to win that one. A loss for the Suns would reflect that they are a bubble team. For now, they simply are a team of playoff caliber.

[ArgSpursFan.]

I saw the game last night and Phoenix didn't improved that much on D,but I have to say that Amare +Shaq on the frontline is a scary tandem.
Even if they don't improve on D they defenetly got better on the boards and bloks.
So,yes, they're better off the Shaq trade.

[m33p0]

i think duncan, oberto and thomas can hold their own on the boards against shaq and amare. i do think we have the upperhand on offense with duncan with thomas or oberto lurking against those 2. if shaq guards duncan, look for timmy to dump it to the other big. amare would be so focused on trying to block timmy, he won't even know he'd been had. and if amare ends up guarding timmy, well, we already know what timmy can do against amare and a double teamer.

[1Parker1]

Celts are showing their weakness; if any 1 or 2 of their "Big 3" have an off scoring night, it's going to be a long night for them. Not only that, but their bench and players outside of KG and Ray Allen have very little Basketball IQ, I think. Their inexperience is going to shine through in tough, close playoff games.

I think Cleveland can beat them now with their new team. As can the Pistons.

[ancestron]

Phoenix's weakness is going to be in transition defense when Shaq is on the floor. If the spurs can crash the boards and push it back the Suns are screwed because Shaq takes forever to run down the floor leaving a gaping Shaq-sized hole right in the middle. Thats what I noticed. TP would have a field day.
Boston exploited it a few times, but other than that I'd say the Celtics pretty much beat themselves. Looks like they're still trying to get used to KG being back or something.

[td4mvp3]

Celts are showing their weakness; if any 1 or 2 of their "Big 3" have an off scoring night, it's going to be a long night for them. Not only that, but their bench and players outside of KG and Ray Allen have very little Basketball IQ, I think. Their inexperience is going to shine through in tough, close playoff games.

I think Cleveland can beat them now with their new team. As can the Pistons.
isn't that the case for every good team? we struggle if duncan, manu or parker are off, dallas if dirk, howard or terry.

[batboy]

It's a rare night when Allen and Pierce shoot a combined 5-25. Phoenix played well but Boston flat out sucked.

It's a rare night that Boston plays an elite point guard and comes away with a W. Hopefully both ourteams will be full strength next time and we will see how they handle Parker.

Someone should also tell Bill Walton and others to stop propping up Rondo as some kind of threat to opposing teams. Dude is a fucking joke, statgeeks be damned.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

not really, because the celtics looked like complete garbage



and now the media will spin this a "Shaq has made the Suns a defensive power house"

[BonnerDynasty]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Celtics looked like a D-league out there...and it was NOT due to Phoenixs defense either. It was more of a Celtics lose then a Suns win.
Right when i want Celtics to win. ( to help us in the Western Conference)....
Stupid Celtics.....

[Agloco]

This shows absolutely nothing. You can't use a game against the Celtics as a comparison for a Suns-Spurs matchup. two different animals.

The Celtics are beginning to fade just as I thought they would. All those jumpers are easy to hit early in the season........

[K-State Spur]

it changed my mind that gamblers aren't in the NBA. ray allen and paul pierce were clearly trying to throw the game last night.

[E20]

No, it did not change my mind. Boston has lost three straight and they are in a slump. If you think Shaq shut down KG or something go back to smoking the tweeds.

[WildcardManu]

Boston just looks stale, well that and the fact that it's the second half of the season and the west is a slaughterhouse because no one can afford to lose.

[easjer]

Did it change my mind?

Nope.

[Fabbs]

No.
I knew Phx could play better then they did against the Flamers.
I knew Boston has been sucking lately and their 30-4 record or whatever it was would not stand up.

Still was an impressive win by Phx. But KG needs to get back into the swing and he will. I don't want to see Barrdog go to the Celtics.

[bdictjames]

Amare is a beast man I'll give you that.

Its weird, Shaq actually makes the Suns faster, although he is forcing too many fancy passes lol.

[K-State Spur]

there is no shame in boston losing at phoenix, especially in the middle of this road trip.

however, making the Suns look like the '96 Bulls defensively (less than 2 weeks after trading their best [only?] defender) should raise an eyebrow or two in beantown.

[mardigan]

Shaq has obviously re-energized this team. Hill looks as good as he did in Detroit, Nash looks intrested on d, and Amare being free to roam now is a beast.

How many other shooting nights that bad have the Celts had all year? Yea, thye were missing some easy buckets, but the Suns were playing pretty damn good d and where all over the passing lanes. Just with his rebounding and inside presence it looks as if Shaq has given them a new level.

People are still trying to hang on to this notion that they needed Marion, what a joke. He's really helped Miami out hasnt he?

[DazedAndConfused]

The Celtics failed to take advantage of the Suns biggest weakness, defending the P&R. The Lakers ran the P&R with Gasol to death and it worked very successfully. Shaq has NEVER been able to defend the P&R well, even in is prime Laker days.

[majinkoola]

there is no shame in boston losing at phoenix, especially in the middle of this road trip.

however, making the Suns look like the '96 Bulls defensively (less than 2 weeks after trading their best [only?] defender) should raise an eyebrow or two in beantown.

You mean the 1st team All-NBA defender, right? Oh wait, he's still on the team.

[JMarkJohns]

You mean the 1st team All-NBA defender, right? Oh wait, he's still on the team.

Bell isn't having a very good season. Not offensively or defensively. He's still above average, but if you think Bell is playing like and/or having the impact of a 1st-team defender, then you haven't been watching the same games I have been.

That said, last season Bell was the Suns best defender, with Marion being their most important because of versatility. This year, I think Marion had actually caught up, or should I say Bell had come back down, and I think it was even. I'd argue that Hill is their best overall defender right now. He puts all the hustle into it that Bell does, with a better combination of size and athleticism. Still, I wouldn't say he's much better than above average either.

Right now the Suns best defensive weapon is that they have three frontcourt players that can go off for 2/3 blocks each in any given game. Having that kind of size and depth at PF and C allows them to be more agressive when altering shots, which should improve their perimeter defense in time as more slashers start stopping short and pulling up for mid-range jumpers instead of taking it all the way into the lane.

[CaptainLate]

i think duncan, oberto and thomas can hold their own on the boards against shaq and amare. i do think we have the upperhand on offense with duncan with thomas or oberto lurking against those 2. if shaq guards duncan, look for timmy to dump it to the other big. amare would be so focused on trying to block timmy, he won't even know he'd been had. and if amare ends up guarding timmy, well, we already know what timmy can do against amare and a double teamer.

Amare proved his "O" abilities when he averaged, what, 37ppg in the playoffs against Spurs? But we know he doesn't play "Dee". And w/o the Matrix their perimeter "Dee" got even worse. They won't get out of the second round (and maybe the first depending on seeding).

[bdictjames]

The Celtics failed to take advantage of the Suns biggest weakness, defending the P&R. The Lakers ran the P&R with Gasol to death and it worked very successfully. Shaq has NEVER been able to defend the P&R well, even in is prime Laker days.
I agree. Kobe could have had 12-15 assists on that game if he had Steve Nash like passing ability. And Vlad was a stud at the assists department.

I guess no Doc for COY..

[CaptainLate]

Right now the Suns best defensive weapon is that they have three frontcourt players that can go off for 2/3 blocks each in any given game. Having that kind of size and depth at PF and C allows them to be more agressive when altering shots, which should improve their perimeter defense in time as more slashers start stopping short and pulling up for mid-range jumpers instead of taking it all the way into the lane.

Smart teams in the playoffs, when things slow down, will continue to attack the lane b/c they know that Shaq and AS can be gotten into foul trouble. With no backups, the Suns are :donkey .

[CaptainLate]

Celts are showing their weakness; if any 1 or 2 of their "Big 3" have an off scoring night, it's going to be a long night for them. Not only that, but their bench and players outside of KG and Ray Allen have very little Basketball IQ, I think.

Their "bench" sure made us look bad. That was a Sunday embarassment. First chance I've had to see the Spurs and their JV team squeaked by us. Hey, Pop, good job letting Pierce go off instead of putting the Noose on him.

[JMarkJohns]

Smart teams in the playoffs, when things slow down, will continue to attack the lane b/c they know that Shaq and AS can be gotten into foul trouble. With no backups, the Suns are :donkey .

Diaw is a capable backup PF and Skinner is a quality defendsive center, starting or off the bench. I don't think the latter will ever the minutes to fully maximize his statistical potential with the Suns now, but he's a very solid shot-blocker and, now, can play all out within his 12-to-15 minutes to block every shot since he doesn't have to worry about spreading out his fouls. The Suns shotblocking should hold up come playoff time.

[mavsfan1000]

Amazing when you play a traditional lineup how much better a defense can get. The Suns and Mavs are looking pretty good now that both can run without going small.

[T Park]

How traditional is that lineup gonna be when Dampier gets in foul trouble?

[td4mvp3]

well, it gave me more pause when considering the suns. shaq will be a problem and bring them rebounding and a roaming amare has shown some ability defensively. i mean, yeah, marion may have been their best perimeter defender and now he's gone, and bell may not be up to snuff, but how much does it matter when shots are likely to be swatted by shaq or amare? hope the spurs learn that mid-range game.

[LoserDynasty]

Suns just winning the meaningless regular-season games they're supposed to win.

[Stargazer]

Considering that the Suns went 12 minutes without a FG, the Boston game could easily have been a complete blowout. Remember, too, that Barbosa didn't really play in the game.

The question isn't whether the Suns are suddenly a defensive powerhouse. Instead, the question is simply whether they have gained more on defense and rebounding by adding Shaq than they have lost on offense. Based on two games (still a small sample), I'd say the answer is yes.

On the offensive side, I don't see much loss at all. Yes, Marion averaged 20 pts a night, but a lot of those were opportunistic points -- points on the break, rebouding put backs, and so on. The Suns famously never "ran any plays" for Marion. The result is that, with so many other offensive weapons on the floor, Marion's departure hasn't really created any holes. If anything, the offense might be a bit more potent with Shaq instead of Marion simply because Amare seems (so far) to play much better with
Shaq than with Marion. My guess is that the offense will at least be no worse now with Shaq, with some potential upsides.

And I see at least some gains on defense and rebounding. Especially rebouding. I frankly can't remember the last time the Suns outrebounded an opponent before Shaq. Frankly, I didn't realize what a handicap it was for the team until now -- the game seems so much easier when you can get a few rebounds.

It may well be that the Suns will now be vulnerable to the pick & roll with Shaq in the game -- we'll see. But it's not as if the Suns used to have a great defense before that's gotten worse. They don't need a great defense -- they just need enough of an improvement to let the offense win the game.

Bottom line, if the offense is no worse and the defense and rebounding is at least somewhat better, and if they were already right on the edge, then you have to like their chances.

[mojorizen7]

Sounds to me like many who replied to this thread may have missed the game itself.
On a night that the SUNS go 12+minutes without a FG while maintaining the lead.....
Does anybody here really think that it's just sheer coincidence that ALL 3 of the Celts weapons had an "off night" shooting wise?....gimme a break.
This isn't the same SUNS team from 3 weeks ago.
There are kinks to be worked out on offense(mainly the spacing with Shaq/Amare playing together) & we still have some defensive issues on the perimeter.
Since Shaq's arrival, Suns have outrebounded their opponents 96-65.
" " " , Suns have only allowed 15 offensive rebounds.
We've done nothing yet in the grand scheme sure, and if past injuries are a sign of things to come,Shaq/Hill may not last thru the playoff grind.....but the Suns have gotten better.
If PHX gets bounced again this year, it won't be for the same reasons we've been eliminated in previous years.
Getting 2,3, and sometimes 4 extra shot attempts per possesion against the Suns isn't going to be the norm anymore.
Niether is getting our best weapon in foul trouble because he's forced to guard the other team's best bigman everynight.
The Western playoffs will be a dogfight.

[T Park]

Niether is getting our best weapon in foul trouble because he's forced to guard the other team's best bigman everynight

:lol

yeah cause guys like Ginobili or Parker won't draw fouls on him when he makes tries to block shots.

[mojorizen7]

Frankly, I didn't realize what a handicap it was for the team until now -- the game seems so much easier when you can get a few rebounds.

Just now?!.....is that you Mike D?
The fact is that if you can control the glass and defend, 9 times outta 10 you're gonna be in a position to win the game despite having a poor shooting night.
That is the formula for success .
Not being a jump shooting team that relies on shooting 65% and hoping that the other team misses some shots.
Now if we can just get rid of D'Antoni we may be on to something here.

[mojorizen7]

:lol

yeah cause guys like Ginobili or Parker won't draw fouls on him when he makes tries to block shots.
Bring it!
Amare's dumb fouls came getting caught handchecking guards on the perimeter. The rest come trying to body up in the post against the 5's and hybrid 4's like T.D.

[lefty]

Celtics are showing their true color during this West trip : GREEN !

The East is so weak, welcome to reality Boston

[dbreiden83080]

No because Shaq can't and won't stay healthy. He is 60% of what he was at best when he is healthy and he is fragile as can be at this point.

[Emeyin]

Phoenix worried me a little bit after that Boston game. They played pretty good and Amare was a beast. But with Manu playing like he is and if Tony comes back into form I like the Spurs chances.

[barbacoataco]

I don't think Shaq has the conditioning to lead the Suns to a championship.

[mojorizen7]

I don't think Shaq has the conditioning to lead the Suns to a championship.
We'll see. Many thought the same way in regards to Grant Hill & he's starting to look a lot like the Pistons all-star he was early in his career.

[Holt's Cat]

Pistons working the Suns early right now.

[hater]

no it did not. and today's game is testament that Suns are fokd

[peskypesky]

Celtics had a serious off-night with shooting. That won't happen often. As others have said, it was more about Boston losing than Phoenix winning. I thought Phoenix made a bad trade, and i still do.

[timmy21_4rings]

u got to watch todays Pistons game (in progress) to get a clear opinion!!!

[phyzik]

Pistons smashing the Suns right now, I think they are up by 31 points or something rediculous like that.

[CubanMustGo]

Pistons smashing the Suns right now, I think they are up by 31 points or something rediculous like that.

And Duh'Antoni still won't play his bench. Down by 28 midway thru the 4th and both O'Neal and Stoudemire are still in the game while the Pistons are playing just about everyone but the guy selling popcorn.

O'Neal, btw, is 1-8 from the charity stripe. Good times.

[mavsfan1000]

Shaq is the anti-suns system. It looks like the suns need to adjust to Shaq rather than Shaq adjust to the suns. Marion looks like the missing link. :lol