Legend.

[Holt's Cat]

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/nba-history/images/photos/gervin03pf-1.jpg
http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nba/sanantonio/RobertsonSA.jpg
http://sportswrap.berecruited.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/Manu%20Ginobili.jpg

[T Park]

Gervin> Manu > Robertson

[WildcardManu]

Nice.

[T Park]

Actually, to honestly compare Manu and Gervin isn't fair.

He is better than Alvin Robertson though who was a pretty damn good player in his day.

[Brutalis]

ARob came from my Hogs!

Too bad he can't stay out of jail.

[ShoogarBear]

Until Manu, Robertson had the most accolades of any post-Gervin Spur guard, but I can't in good conscience put him up there with the other two.

Funny thing is, until DRob, the Spurs were almost exclusively known for their guard play. Then there was a long drought until Manu and TP came along.

[whottt]

http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/de/baskonia/scola05i.jpg

8 points
9 rebounds
AS PF

Friday, February 22nd, 2008

[T Park]

Until Manu, Robertson had the most accolades of any post-Gervin Spur guard, but I can't in good conscience put him up there with the other two.

Funny thing is, until DRob, the Spurs were almost exclusively known for their guard play. Then there was a long drought until Manu and TP came along.


You seriously overrate Alvin Robertson.

Robertson > Manu?

Come on.

[ShoogarBear]

That's not what I said.

I said I couldn't put Robertson up there with the other two.

[Trainwreck2100]

http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/de/baskonia/scola05i.jpg

8 points
9 rebounds
AS PF

Friday, February 22nd, 2008

That was Oberto's line tonight

[Fillmoe]

lol @ manu ginobody being titled a legend

[whottt]

That was Oberto's line tonight


Yeah but Scola was the first to do it.

[ShoogarBear]

The closest thing that Mento can come up with is . . . Chris Webber.

[Holt's Cat]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/marty_burns/06/21/theus/p1.theus.jpg ?

ROFL

[T Park]

:lol

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

Chris Webber was a top 10 player in the NBA before he wrecked his knee.

[baseline bum]

http://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/images/c0001418_1357254.jpg

[jag]

The closest thing that Mento can come up with is . . . Chris Webber.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2098/1527514693_fdf78a3c97.jpg

[ShoogarBear]

http://www.fif3.com/pics/people/batboy.jpg

[Holt's Cat]

http://theassociation.blogs.com/the_association/images/c0001418_1357254.jpg


Perhaps in the Pussywhipped HOF.

[T Park]

:lmao @ Brad Miller the "wigga"

[FromWayDowntown]

The closest thing that Mento can come up with is . . . Chris Webber.

There was this guy:

http://www.nba.com/media/act_mitch_richmond.jpg

[SenorSpur]

Until Manu, Robertson had the most accolades of any post-Gervin Spur guard, but I can't in good conscience put him up there with the other two.

Funny thing is, until DRob, the Spurs were almost exclusively known for their guard play. Then there was a long drought until Manu and TP came along.


ShoogarBear is on point with his assessment. No way has he overrated Robertson. Since a lot of time has passed, people tend to forget what a fantastic player he was. Check it:

In 1986, Robertson became the inaugural winner of the NBA Most Improved Player Award. This also marked the first of four National Basketball Association All-Star Game appearances for the guard (the others coming in 1987, 1988, and 1991). He also won the NBA Defensive Player of the Year Award in 1986, and led the league in steals in 1986, 1987 and 1991. Robertson still holds the top career steals-per-game average in the NBA, with 2.71 per contest over 779 career games.

Robertson twice led the league in steals. In 1985-86 he averaged a league-leading 3.67 steals per game, a major factor in his earning the Defensive Player of the Year honor and being selected second-team All-NBA, one of only four players in Spurs' history to have been selected first, second or third-team All-NBA. He was a three-time All-Star. Only George Gervin, David Robinson and Tim Duncan have represented the Spurs in more All-Star Games.

Robertson led the Spurs in steals four of the five seasons he was with the club, three times averaging more than three per game. Though he played only five seasons in San Antonio, he ranks second in club history in total steals, with 1,129.

A multi-dimensional player, Robertson is one of only four NBA players to record a quadruple-double (double digits in four statistical categories in a single game) when he registered 20 points, 11 rebounds, 10 assists and 10 steals whilst playing for the Spurs against the Phoenix Suns.[5] He is also the only player to do so with steals as the fourth category (the other three were with blocks).

Pretty impressive, huh. Let it be known that he was THE most highly-decorated player of the post-Gervin, pre-Robinson era.

[jag]

MHo1BInGGAw&feature=related[/url]

[ShoogarBear]

Just to add:

And the 3.67 SPG in 86 is still an NBA single-season record, I believe.

[Holt's Cat]

There was this guy:



...who had to go somewhere else to get a ring because you know it wouldn't ever happen in Sacramento.

[baseline bum]

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7800/sacrulezvf3.jpg

[T Park]

ouch...

[whottt]

Just to add:

And the 3.67 SPG in 86 is still an NBA single-season record, I believe.



Pretty sure he holds the single season record for total steals as well. Actually he probably holds a few of the top spots.


Yeah he was pretty good, in terms of talent he was probably as talented as Gervin and Manu...his life just got sidetracked.



I'd say the Spurs have been pretty strong at the 2 guard spot for their entire history just about...I mean when you just talking all the way through.

Willie Anderson was pretty good himself...


Really the only down period was Vinny...and even statistically Vinny was pretty decent. But top to bottom I'd say 2 guard has been the Spurs strongest position. They've never really been down at that postion for longer than a handful of years....most of which was the prime of David Robinson.

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

Don't forget to mention the great Derek Anderson.

[whottt]

DA was pretty good as a Spur...best he ever was actually.
Mario Elie.
Stephen Jackson.
Even Hedo...


Not to shabby...not even the back ups....like Finley and Barry.


Hell even Smitty had a nice resume...if not knees, when he played for the Spurs.

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

Pop played Hedo at shooting guard? Isn't he like 6' 10"

[T Park]

Smitty dropped 40 something for the Spurs once.

[whottt]

Smitty dropped 40 something for the Spurs once.



Against Portland...


He also lead the NBA in 3t shooting his first year here.



He was pretty solid up until the All Star Break of his first season with the team. Then he just couldn't move on D anymore.

Pop was not going to play him being that kind of defensive liablity and Smitty handled it pretty well all things considered. I actually liked seeing Smitty get a ring...

[whottt]

Smitty dropped 40 something for the Spurs once.



Against Portland...


He also lead the NBA in 3pt shooting his first year here.



He was pretty solid up until the All Star Break of his first season with the team. Then he just couldn't move on D anymore.

Pop was not going to play him being that kind of defensive liablity and Smitty handled it pretty well all things considered. I actually liked seeing Smitty get a ring...

[whottt]

Pop played Hedo at shooting guard? Isn't he like 6' 10"



Hedo can pull minutes at every position on the court...he can play D, he can drive, he can handle the ball...


He just can't move 2 inches to get a ball when he's wide open against the Lakers in the playoffs....or knock down any other important WIDE OPEN shots against LA in the playoffs while Tim Duncan is being double teamed with his defender.

[Spuradicator]

Duncan>Robinson>Gervin> Manu > Robertson

Fixed...........con permiso

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

I guess that makes sense. He plays point power forward for the magic right now. I just wouldn't think Pop would want Hedo playing defense against shooting guards since he isn't really the quickest guy in the world.

I remember the last game of that series. He missed wide open shot after wide open shot in the first half, so Pop started Manu in the second. It's surprising how many clutch shots he's hit for Orlando this season.

[whottt]

I guess that makes sense. He plays point power forward for the magic right now. I just wouldn't think Pop would want Hedo playing defense against shooting guards since he isn't really the quickest in the world.

He was a damn good defender at the 2 guard position when he was here...and he excelled at defending 2 guards.

He's the only guy since Bowen has been on this team to get the call over Bruce for defense...and he got that call against LeBron and Artest.





I remember the last game of that series. He missed wide open shot after wide open shot in the first half, so Pop started Manu in the second. It's surprising how many clutch shots he's hit for Orlando this season.


It's the regular season...and he's not being asked to be the guy that beats them by opposing coaches.

[O.J. Mayonnaise]

Wow, he must have forgotten how to play defense in Orlando, because I can't imagine him defending 2 guards now.

[T Park]

The surrounding players don't care so it rubs off.

[Martin R]

there's NO WAY Manu less than these two players.
Manu has accomplished much more than those 2 guys.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Manu has had a comparatively shorter career dense in achievement. He'll make the Basketball HoF, surely?

whottt on Hedo: "He just can't move 2 inches to get a ball when he's wide open against the Lakers in the playoffs....or knock down any other important WIDE OPEN shots against LA in the playoffs while Tim Duncan is being double teamed with his defender."

Thinking about that still makes me :pctoss

Bloody Hedo - if he played up to his potential in 2004 we'd be talking 4/5.

[whottt]

there's NO WAY Manu less than these two players.
Manu has accomplished much more than those 2 guys.

I'm sorry but he hasn't accomplished more than Ice...

Ice would have entire seasons of averaging the points Manu has averaged over this 6 game hottest streak of his career.

Entire seasons...and he was the best player on every Spurs team he ever played on. And back then they didn't let NBA players play in the Olympics...because our college players were dominant enough as it was.


Ice is at worst one of the 5 best shooting guards in NBA history...let's keep it real here. You weren't watching him play...

At the time of his retirement only Wilt Chamberlain had won more scoring titles...and he was shooting over 50% for his career while he was winning those scoring titles. A 2 guard...averaging 30 points per game on 50% shooting..for a season. Just keep it real...


George Gervin didn't have Tim Duncan in the post....and he still almost won a couple of NBA titles.

[whottt]

Martin...

This is George Gervin...

Hall of Famer
One of the Fifty Greatest of all time.

7 time All NBA.
4 time scoring champion.

And he won...he won a lot. Teams built around him won, when he was the best player. They almost won championships...but it takes more than one great player to win an NBA championship...sometimes even two isn't enough.

http://cache.nba.com/media/history/gervin_300.jpg



Full Name: George Gervin
Born: 4/27/52 in Detroit
High School: M.L. King (Detroit)
College: Eastern Michigan
Drafted by: Phoenix Suns, 1974
Transactions: Traded to Chicago Bulls, 10/24/85 Nickname: Iceman
Height: 6-7; Weight: 185 lbs.
Honors: Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (1996); All-NBA First Team (1978, '79, '80, '81, '82); All-NBA Second Team (1977, '83); Nine-time NBA All-Star (1977-85); All-Star MVP (1980); One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996).
Complete Bio | Summary

George Gervin's playing record speaks volumes. Only Wilt Chamberlain and Michael Jordan have won more league scoring championships than Gervin's four, and he was the first guard ever to win three titles in a row. His career scoring average of 26.2 points per game is among the game's best as is his combined NBA/ABA total of 26,595 points.



E-mail photo | Buy photos

Gervin took four league scoring championships.
Jim Cummins/NBAE/Getty Images
During his career, Gervin recorded a remarkable streak of scoring double figures in 407 consecutive games. He played in 12 straight All-Star Games, including nine in the NBA, and he averaged at least 21 points in each of those dozen years. In his nine NBA seasons with San Antonio, the Spurs won five division titles. He won an All-Star Game MVP Award and twice placed second in voting for the regular-season MVP Award.

But these numbers only begin to tell the story of Gervin's phenomenal pro career, which stretched from the early 1970s through the mid-1980s. To fully appreciate the greatness of "the Iceman" one had to see him rise up for a silky-smooth jump shot from 25 feet, twirl a heavenly finger-roll while soaring through the lane, execute a graceful reverse layup with either hand or explode for a sneaky power dunk between a pair of 7-foot defenders.

Whether he was battling a triple-team or changing directions in midair, Gervin made seemingly impossible shots look as easy as free throws. Despite his penchant for taking challenging shots, Gervin made more than half of his NBA field-goal attempts. Ironically, his effortless style of play prevented him from attaining the celebrity status of more dramatic players such as Julius Erving, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan.

"He's the one player I would pay to see," Jerry West told the Los Angeles Times in 1982 after Gervin won his fourth scoring title. Longtime NBA coach Dick Motta told the Sacramento Bee that same year, "You don't stop George Gervin. You just hope that his arm gets tired after 40 shots. I believe the guy can score when he wants to. I wonder if he gets bored out there."

Gervin took an unlikely road to the NBA. One of six children, he was raised in poverty in Detroit. When Gervin was just a toddler his father left the family in the hands of George's mother, who took any job she could find. "I'll never know how she did it, but she had to be an awfully strong lady," Gervin said. "Looking back, I don't know how we made it. Somehow, she always made sure that we were never hungry."

George started playing basketball at a cousin's house with a neighborhood kid named Ralph Simpson, who went on to star at Michigan State and with the ABA's Denver Nuggets. "I was just running the streets like any other kid, but the difference was that I was in love with basketball," Gervin remembered. "You live in a city like that and you're living in a state of war. You don't realize it then. You just take it day by day."

As a 5-8 sophomore, Gervin tried out for the basketball team at Martin Luther King High School. He could move well but needed some work on his shot. "Cut him," the head coach told his assistant, Willie Meriweather, who also oversaw the junior-varsity team. But Meriweather liked Gervin, so he persuaded the varsity coach to allow him carry an extra player on the junior varsity squad. Meriweather and Gervin grew close. "He was my teacher," Gervin told the Sacramento Bee. "He was basically like a father to me."

Meanwhile, the shy but likable Gervin had also befriended the school's janitor, a man he knew only as Mr. Winters. Every night Mr. Winters let Gervin shoot hoops in the gym on the condition that he sweep up before he left. "It gave me solitude. I was alone in there for hours. There was nothing but me and my imagination," Gervin said. "I had nothing else to do. In a way, I was really a fortunate kid. I never cared about crime, mischief, dope, or any of that other ghetto stuff. The only thing I cared about was basketball."

Although he improved by leaps and bounds on the court, Gervin struggled in the classroom. Poor grades forced him to miss half the games during his junior year. Meriweather urged him to catch up in summer school. Having sprouted to 6-4, Gervin finally got it all together for his senior year. He averaged 31 points and 20 rebounds to lead his school to the state quarterfinals.


Whether he was battling a triple-team or changing directions in midair, Gervin made seemingly impossible shots look as easy as free throws.




After graduating, Gervin accepted a scholarship to attend Long Beach State and play for Jerry Tarkanian. But being in Southern California gave Gervin such culture shock that he went back to Michigan before his first semester had ended. He enrolled at Eastern Michigan University, where he averaged 29.5 points as a sophomore forward in 1971-72.

Then a momentary loss of control derailed a career that was just getting back on track. While competing in a Division II tournament in Evansville, Indiana, Gervin slugged a Roanoke College player named Jay Piccola. Gervin had never before hit a player in anger during a game.

The results were disastrous. Eastern Michigan Coach Jim Dutcher resigned. Gervin was suspended for the following season and eventually was kicked off the team. The official reason for the dismissal was Gervin's inadequate performance on an NCAA eligibility exam; Gervin believed otherwise. Invitations to try out for the Olympic and Pan-American teams were withdrawn.

With nowhere else to turn, Gervin joined the Eastern Basketball Association, then one of the more successful minor-leagues. He was earning $500 per month and averaging about 40 points for the Pontiac (Michigan) Chaparrals when he got a break. In the crowd one night was Johnny Kerr, a scout with the Virginia Squires of the talent-hungry ABA. Gervin erupted for 50 points. After the game, Gervin had a new job that paid $40,000 a year.

The 1972-73 Squires already featured Erving, second-year forward out of the University of Massachusetts. Gervin was as smooth as "Dr. J" was flashy. Gervin joined Virginia at midseason and averaged 14.1 points the rest of the way while Erving (31.9 ppg) won the scoring title.

Squires guard Fatty Taylor took a look at Gervin one day and called him "Iceberg Slim," the nom de guerre of a slender pimp who had just written a best-selling autobiography about his former life on the streets of Chicago. "That's the image I lived with my whole life," Gervin said. "Big cars, a big hat. Live fast, die young. People in Detroit, the ones I hung out with, that's the way they lived." The name eventually evolved into "the Iceman," which referred more to Gervin's on-court composure than to his resemblance to a street hustler.

During the 1973-74 season, the same day Gervin played in his first ABA All-Star Game, his contract was sold to the San Antonio Spurs, who had just moved from Dallas and were known as the Chaparrals. Seemingly as par for the course for matters involving player movement during this era between the NBA and ABA or within the ABA, there was a contractual dispute. The teams and the ABA League Office all had different interpretations of the deal. The 21-year-old Gervin went into hiding during the week's time it took to resolve the deal granting his services to the Spurs. Once he began to play, Gervin was in his element. He scored 23.4 points per game for the season to rank fourth in the league. He remained in the top 10 in scoring and made the All-Star Team in each of the next two years. For 48 minutes, Gervin teamed with childhood buddy Ralph Simpson on the West squad in the 1975 ABA All-Star Game.

When the Spurs joined the NBA in 1976, many observers expected Gervin to be good but not great. To their surprise, Gervin won four scoring titles in five years, earned five selections to the All-NBA First Team and appeared in nine straight NBA All-Star Games.

In 1977-78, only their second year in the league, the Spurs paced the Central Division with a 52-30 record, third best in the league. Coach Doug Moe, who had taken over when the franchise switched leagues, managed to build a winning team despite having only three double-digit scorers. Gervin won his first scoring title with 27.2 ppg; behind him were forward Larry Kenon (20.6 ppg) and hulking center Billy Paultz (15.8 ppg). A cast of little-known players filled out Moe's roster.

That year, Gervin needed to score at least 58 points in the season finale on April 9 in order to edge out the Denver Nuggets' David Thompson for the scoring championship. Thompson had pumped in an impressive 73 points earlier in the day to put the pressure on. When Gervin opened the Spurs' game against the New Orleans Jazz with six straight missed shots, he asked his teammates to abandon the chase; they ignored his request and kept feeding him the ball.

Finally heating up, he scored a record 33 points in the second quarter -- re-establishing an NBA record set earlier that evening when Thompson scored 32 in the first quarter -- en route to a 63-point evening. Gervin squeaked by Thompson for the scoring title, 27.22 points per game to 27.15, and he finished runner-up to the Portland Trail Blazers' Bill Walton in NBA MVP balloting.

The following season, Gervin (29.6 ppg) repeated as scoring champion and again finished runner-up in the MVP voting, this time behind Moses Malone of the Houston Rockets. In that 1978-79 season, Gervin came closest to playing in the NBA Finals. After besting the Philadelphia 76ers in a seven-game conference semifinal series, the Spurs blew a 3-1 lead over the Washington Bullets in the Eastern Conference Finals.

With Gervin aboard, San Antonio, after moving to the Western Conference, again reached the conference finals in 1982 and 1983, losing both times to the Los Angeles Lakers. By that time Gervin had been joined by talented forwards Gene Banks and Mike Mitchell and daunting center Artis Gilmore, himself a former ABA superstar. And Johnny Moore was developing into an effective playmaker to complement Gervin's scoring prowess.

The Spurs had gone through several coaches since Doug Moe had left for Denver in 1980, including Bob Bass (for two short stints), Stan Albeck and Morris McHone. The arrival of new head coach Cotton Fitzsimmons in 1984-85 spelled the end of Gervin's 12-year career with the Spurs' organization. The two never hit it off. Fitzsimmons apparently believed that Gervin was weak on defense and that he feared taking the last shot in close games. After reaching the 25,000-point mark for his career, Gervin was traded to the Chicago Bulls in the ensuing offseason for forward David Greenwood. Gervin left the Spurs with 23,602 points and more than 60 team records.

Similarly as he entered the ABA playing along side a second-year future great named Erving, in 1985-86, his last season in the NBA, he joined another second-year future great player. This one was named Michael Jordan. Jordan, however, was limited to 18 games because of a broken foot, and Gervin played a valuable role for Bulls Coach Stan Albeck. The 33-year-old Gervin played in every game and averaged 16.2 points, second on the team to Orlando Woolridge. He retired from the NBA after that season with 20,708 total NBA points and a combined ABA/NBA total of 26,595.

The following year, Gervin played in Italy for Banco Roma and scored 26.1 points per game. As a newly retired players, Gervin had trouble making the transition. He developed a substance abuse habit that required three trips to rehabilitation clinics to break, the last visit coming in 1989 at a Houston facility run by former Spurs teammate John Lucas.

Gervin then became addicted to a much more innocuous activity: golf. A 7-handicapper, Gervin founded an annual golf tournament in San Antonio. In 1989-90 he attempted a brief comeback with the Quad City Thunder of the CBA, appearing in 14 games and averaging 20.3 points.

Gervin worked as a community relations representative for the Spurs until 1992, when Head Coach John Lucas made him an assistant. After two seasons on the bench, he returned to his position in the community relations department in 1994.

Gervin's No. 44 jersey has been retired by the Spurs. And in 1996, Gervin enjoyed a banner year as he was named to the NBA 50th Anniversary All-Time Team and was also inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.


Career Statistics

G FG% 3PFG% FT% Rebs RPG Asts APG Stls Blks Pts PPG
791 .511 .297 .844 3,607 4.6 2,214 2.8 941 670 20,708 26.2

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm sorry but he hasn't accomplished more than Ice...

Ice would have entire seasons of averaging the points Manu has averaged over this 6 game hottest streak of his career.

Entire seasons...and he was the best player on every Spurs team he ever played on. And back then they didn't let NBA players play in the Olympics...because our college players were dominant enough as it was.


Ice is at worst one of the 5 best shooting guards in NBA history...let's keep it real here. You weren't watching him play...

At the time of his retirement only Wilt Chamberlain had won more scoring titles...and he was shooting over 50% for his career while he was winning those scoring titles. A 2 guard...averaging 30 points per game on 50% shooting..for a season. Just keep it real...


George Gervin didn't have Tim Duncan in the post....and he still almost won a couple of NBA titles.

An earlier instance of Spurs fans taking George Gervin for granted and the reaction to it:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53755&page=1&pp=26

[Taijihu]

20+20+10+8,how about once again?

[tmtcsc]

Actually, to honestly compare Manu and Gervin isn't fair.

He is better than Alvin Robertson though who was a pretty damn good player in his day.


??? Are you saying that Manu isn't as good as Gervin ? I loved George Gervin, he's an OFFENSIVE legend and there is no other player like him but Manu Ginobili is a friggin stud.
Ice benefitted from his teammates getting him the ball and from the fact that he was the number 1 offensive option.

Manu plays both ends of the court and IMO is a more intense competitor than Ice ever was.
I think the comparison is fair.

[T Park]

Ice benefitted from his teammates getting him the ball and from the fact that he was the number 1 offensive option.




Manu benefits from Tim Duncan being double teammed and him also being the best power forward ever to play.

[Ghost Writer]

Manu is the greatest foreign-born SG in NBA history.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Manu is the greatest foreign-born SG in NBA history.

Some Europeans would claim that Drazen Petrovic is the one that deserves that title. But, they would include European and International achievements in the mix. Sadly, his career was shortened by his car accident, so most of the argument is made of "what ifs".

To me, he is a top 3 in an all-time non-US players list. I'm not including in the list people like TD or Hakeem, who didn't play in FIBA at club level, played in American Colleges and represented Team USA in International basketball.

[Ghost Writer]

I remember Petro fondly, as I saw him play live a couple times on the Nets.

He was a fantastic shooter and a passionate player, but Manu's game is like Sarunas Marcilunas 2.0.

He does more and better.

I think Manu is top 5 foreign-born NBA players of all time.

You gotta consider Nash and Dirk, too.

[ShoogarBear]

An earlier instance of Spurs fans taking George Gervin for granted and the reaction to it:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53755&page=1&pp=26Oh, man, what a classic.

Who's going to play the Zunni role in this one?

[ShoogarBear]

there's NO WAY Manu less than these two players.
Manu has accomplished much more than those 2 guys.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1293768&postcount=93


1. Tim Duncan (fact)
2. George Gervin
3. David Robinson
4. Manu Ginobili (potential)
5. Sean Elliott
6. Mike Mitchell
7. Johnny Moore
8. Tony Parker (potential)
9. James Silas
10. Larry Kenon:dizzy

[ShoogarBear]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1294078&postcount=99


True.

I worked in the locker room for the 84-85 and 85-86 seasons, so I was able to see first hand and up close what Ice was all about, albeit it was the end of his career. Ice was very laconic, so fluid in his skinny-boy movements that it SEEMED like he did not play the game hard. But he was always a competitor and always rose to the challenge.

You can talk about how Manu would have averaged 32ppg back in the 80's, but you would be full of crap. Remember that the L back then had at least 6 fewer teams than the current league, so teams were much deeper than they are now. Back when Ice was winning scoring titles, there were teams that had HoFers coming off their benches. On top of that, the Euros had not started influencing the L, so the game was much more physical that it is today. And he did it all wearing shorts that made John Stockton shorts look long.

Just because some idiot can't remember what Ice accomplished because they were dragging around in a dirty diaper at the time doesn't trivialize what the man did.

[ShoogarBear]

I am also pleased to see that whottt in that thread admitted Alvin Robertson > Terry Cummings. Too bad he's gotten stupid about that fact over the last two years.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I'm probably gonna get flamed out by some people because of this, but in my opinion, the #1 non-US born player is Sabonis. He just had the disgrace of not being able to move outside the USSR in the peak of his career, and when he did move, he chose Spain.

But between 1981 and 1994 he was the most dominant player in FIBA, at club and international level.

Before his injuries, he was able to play point guard for large periods of the game. That is a 7'3'' point center with better passing skills than 90% of the current NBA players. He was a sold rock defender, rebounder and shot blocker in a time where FIBA players were known as 3-point specialists only. He was also extremely quick for a man of his size, which was also helped with his mental quickness and his good lateral movement.

The guy was a real one-man fast break, he could defend his rim, block or rebound, start running and finish it with an assist, a 3 pointer or a dunk. Not to mention his solid post game, both in the high or low.

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[Ghost Writer]

Sabonis was awesome, but did not come to the NBA until the downside of his career.

I'm talking the greatest NBA players of all-time that were born outside of the USA.

[ShoogarBear]

I wished I could have seen more of Sabonis at his peak. Unfortunately, he remains only a legend in most minds.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

if Manu plays like this in the post, he will surpass Ice man

[whottt]

I am also pleased to see that whottt in that thread admitted Alvin Robertson > Terry Cummings. Too bad he's gotten stupid about that fact over the last two years.


TC>Alvin Robertson

[whottt]

??? Are you saying that Manu isn't as good as Gervin ? I loved George Gervin, he's an OFFENSIVE legend and there is no other player like him but Manu Ginobili is a friggin stud.
Ice benefitted from his teammates getting him the ball and from the fact that he was the number 1 offensive option.


Lots of guards have been the #1 option for their teams...they didn't score 30ppg on 50% shooting at the guard spots....only one other has done that.

And they didn't win 4 scoring titles...













Manu plays both ends of the court and IMO is a more intense competitor than Ice ever was.
I think the comparison is fair.




George Gervin was the all time leader in blocked shots by a 2 guard at time of his retirement, and averaged well over a steal per game for his career...


I hate to tell you this but Manu isn't a very good man on man defender...



And saying Gevin didn't comepete borders on isanity...I promise, you couldn't put up his numbers if you weren't competing...in fact, you couldn't put up his numbers if you were competing.





Manu scored 30 points last night?


George Gervin once scored more than that in a quarter...



It was when he set the NBA record...about 2 hours after it had been set. Not competing indeed...

[BonnerDynasty]

Manu is a beast. I hope he can play at this level in the playoffs so the world can see.

[whottt]

Just so you guys know...Michael Jordan credits Gervin with teaching him how to win scoring titles...


There aren't many guys that can say they taught Michael Jordan anything about scoring...Gervin is one of them. And there aren't many guys that that Jordan says had any kind of influence on him.



Ya'll need to stop and re-evaluate....






And again...Gervin's teams won. They competed for NBA championships...It wasn't like he was just jacking up meaningless shots...he was a franchise 2 guard in every sense of the word.

[kuato]

Just so you guys know...Michael Jordan credits Gervin with teaching him how to win scoring titles...
So .. go ask Jorgan what he thinks about Manu :P

[Holt's Cat]

Why are we discussing Sabonis in a thread about the 3 greatest shooting guards in Spurs' franchise history?

Did I just see Ghost actually acknowledge Emmanuel Ginobili's existence?

[whottt]

So .. go ask Jorgan what he thinks about Manu :P


More like go ask Manu how he feels about Jordan...


But you already know the answer to that don't you?

[baseline bum]

??? Are you saying that Manu isn't as good as Gervin ? I loved George Gervin, he's an OFFENSIVE legend and there is no other player like him but Manu Ginobili is a friggin stud.
Ice benefitted from his teammates getting him the ball and from the fact that he was the number 1 offensive option.

Manu plays both ends of the court and IMO is a more intense competitor than Ice ever was.
I think the comparison is fair.

Ice benefited from being born with maybe the greatest midrange jumpshot in NBA history and a completely unblockable finger roll. I love Manu, but saying he's better than Ice is like trying to say Pierce is better than Bird or Yao is better than Hakeem.

[Holt's Cat]

Manu is clearly a top 3 shooting guard in franchise history.

There are two Spurs who I wish had more time with the Spurs. Jack is one and Alvin is the other. But that trade for TC had to be made. One wonders if Alvin's life would have turned out better had he not been traded for TC. I think it says enough about his 5 seasons in San Antonio that he is regarded as one of the best players to have ever suited up for the Silver & Black. If not top 5, then definitely top 10.

[batboy]

The closest thing that Mento can come up with is . . . Chris Webber.

http://badpussy.org/gallery/d/221210-2/1246-kings06.jpg

HOF right there.

[WalterBenitez]

http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/de/baskonia/scola05i.jpg

8 points
9 rebounds
AS PF

Friday, February 22nd, 2008

Jesus, Luis is getting ugglier

for the record Many Spurs' player are legend ... in latest times DRob, TD, Manu and TP will be included.

[m33p0]

my take is Gervin<>Manu. though Gervin scored more, Manu does more. I'd probably give Gervin a slight edge just because he can do it with less sweat. All he needs is a hanky to wipe his brow.

[SenorSpur]

Sabonis was awesome, but did not come to the NBA until the downside of his career.

I'm talking the greatest NBA players of all-time that were born outside of the USA.

Couldn't agree more. If I remember correctly, Portland drafted him back in the day and it took 10 years for him to finally get to the NBA. By then, he was merely a shadow of his former self. His freakish athleticism had faded. He still showed some occasional flashes of brilliance. The basic floor game, the passing, the fundementals for which he was famous for. By then, he played the game more with his mind versus his athleticism.

[Mark in Austin]

I love Manu, but saying he's better than Ice is like trying to say Pierce is better than Bird or Yao is better than Hakeem.

+1

[baseline bum]

Manu is clearly a top 3 shooting guard in franchise history.

There are two Spurs who I wish had more time with the Spurs. Jack is one and Alvin is the other. But that trade for TC had to be made. One wonders if Alvin's life would have turned out better had he not been traded for TC. I think it says enough about his 5 seasons in San Antonio that he is regarded as one of the best players to have ever suited up for the Silver & Black. If not top 5, then definitely top 10.

There's nothing more chicken-shit than beating your wife, but I still love the guy.

Alvin really treated his fans well. I talked to him, got autographs from him, took pictures with him, rebounded balls and shot baskets with him, and such many times as a kid before and after games and at Baseline Bums bar-b-qs. I remember the first game I ever went to was Alvin Robertson poster night, and he stayed for like 15-20 minutes after the game to sign everyone's poster who lined up.

I think he loved being in SA, and he used to own a nightclub somewhere downtown. I absolutely hated the trade when I first heard it, and I was mad as hell even though I was a huge TC fan from his Milwaukee days. But I was a kid and didn't know the shit Alvin was doing off the court.

The Bums loved him like family member though, myself included. I remember filling out stacks and stacks of All-Star ballots I'd take home after every game and turn in at the next one with he and Artis selected.

[remingtonbo2001]

:wow I had always heard the legend of Sobonis, but never looked into it.

Unbelievable. It's like watching Magic Johnson trapped in the body of 7'3'' man.

D-Rob said Sabonis was the toughest individual he ever faced.
And D-Rob cannot tell a lie. He would explode if he did.

[baseline bum]

:wow I had always heard the legend of Sobonis, but never looked into it.

Unbelievable. It's like watching Magic Johnson trapped in the body of 7'3'' man.

D-Rob said Sabonis was the toughest individual he ever faced.
And D-Rob cannot tell a lie. He would explode if he did.

Sabonis looked unreal in the '88 Olympics. That was the only time I ever saw him live in his prime, but seeing the atleticism he had then combined with the passing, shooting range, and basketball IQ you would see out of him every night in Portland makes one have to believe he'd have a career on par with Shaq's or Hakeem's had he played his entire career here. Sabonis-Marciulionis was a sick 1-2 punch for that Soviet team.