Spurs' offense varied, efficient

[Kori Ellis]

Spurs' offense varied, efficient
Web Posted: 01/08/2005 12:00 AM CST

Mike Monroe
Express-News Staff Writer

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA010805.1D.BKNspurs.nuggets.adv.859a2822.html

As the NBA season nears its midpoint, the Spurs are playing more efficiently than they have since their first championship season of 1999, while at the same time becoming less predictable and, thus, harder to scout.

The Spurs have assisted on 63.4 percent of their field goals, a reliable measure of offensive efficiency. It is the highest percentage since the 1999 Spurs, who won 37 of 50 games in the lockout-shortened championship season, assisted on 63.3 percent of their makes.

The 2002-03 Spurs, who won 60 games and the team's second title, assisted on only 56.3 percent of their field goals. The 1994-95 Spurs, who won a club record 62 games, assisted on only 59.3 percent of their shots.

The efficiency has resulted even as coach Gregg Popovich has used a 10-man rotation and has begun rotating his five guards based on his seat-of-the-pants feel for each game.

As Denver Nuggets assistant coach and director of scouting Bill Branch noted after watching the Spurs' game Thursday against Indiana, figuring out a defensive game plan to stop them is next to impossible.

"For one thing," said Branch, who has to try to do just that before the Nuggets play the Spurs today at the SBC Center, "they've got the biggest playbook in the entire league. But they're also running more and using a lot of motion (offense). And they're just so deep."

Popovich has started to use point guards Tony Parker and Beno Udrih in tandem, while using reserve shooting guards Brent Barry and Devin Brown according to matchups and his feel for each game.

"On a given night certain guys play better than other guys," Popovich said of a guard rotation that remains a work in progress. "But, all in all, they all deserve time. And then we've experimented a couple of times with having both point guards on the floor at the same time, and that's worked out well, so that kind of throws a wrench into it.

"I'd say there's nothing set in stone at all. That will always be a feel thing, a matchup situation in certain games that would not be 'Plan A' but an adjustment we can go to now."

Popovich acknowledges his by-feel approach to his guard play makes the Spurs less predictable.

"It's kind of our version of 'small ball,'" he said.

Preparing for the Nuggets changed slightly on Dec. 28, when Michael Cooper became interim coach after the Nuggets fired Jeff Bzdelik after his team lost six-straight games and slipped under .500. Cooper has stressed defense and figures to have two of his better defenders, Marcus Camby and Greg Buckner, back in the lineup after a four-day hiatus that followed the Nuggets' last game, a loss Monday to the Clippers. Both players had missed time — Camby with a strained lower back, Buckner with a strained right groin.

"It's been tough for them," Popovich said of the Nuggets. "They've had a couple people out, making it a little different for them the last few games.

"If those guys play tomorrow, they'll have their whole team for the first time, in a sense. They've got to get used to each other all over again, depending on what Michael Cooper wants to do with them. It doesn't happen instantaneously, but they've got a good group, an aggressive group and a talented group. They want to win, and as soon as possible, so they'll be aggressive.

"Obviously, they'll have their legs. They've had four days off and they'll come ready to play."

Popovich changed the team's preparation routine because of the 12:30 p.m. start time dictated by a national network television broadcast. He brought the team to the club's practice facility after Thursday's victory over the Pacers for what amounted to a midnight snack. Then he brought them back for a relatively early film session and shootaround on Friday.

The goal, he said, was to have fresh legs for the well-rested Nuggets.

[whottt]

LOL!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Monroe forgot the part where as soon as we lose a playoff game, Pop's pucker factor increases exponentially and he goes back to his 4down security blanket for not just entire fourth quarters, but entire games.

:(

[whottt]

I was loling because Chump, TimVP and TPark all need to aplogize to moi.

I have been talking about using a 10 man rotation, and finding the hot bench hands and going with them, all season long...

And the above mentioned all responded with, "who are we, the Grizz?" drivel.

As usual, whottt was ahead of the curve...I give Pop full props for getting "it". Pop finally saying that, plus the fact that he has stopped the stupid substition patterns with Horry and Barry in big games...well with those two things now happening...I am back to being satisfied with the state of the team..

I regret it took Pop several losses, directly caused by bad substitutions on his part, like Horry not getting a second of PT against Orlando, to figure it out...


I regret it because Nikos needs 65 wins shoved up his butt, to prove he doesn't know what he is talking about, and the three unnecessary losses make that task much more difficult.

Now my only concern is Bowen's D and possible replacement in the starting line up by Brown...not a big deal though...I just hope Pop doesn't stick with Bowen too long on the nights when he is getting torched...and if Kori says it won't happen again I'll take her word for it since she usually has a pretty good read on Bowen.

And because Pop has now officially decreed a 10 man rotation it will be...

I fully concede, like the class act that I am, the bet I made with Dump, 100%. Dump was right, Pop is not as dumb offensively as I thought(but I still reserve the right to second guess if he does another stupid move like not giving Horry any PT in a big game) and indeed
Pop does know what to do with offensive talent(at least this much) when he has it. I was wrong to say he didn't.(Kinda...still no excuse for Kerr)

I concede that Dump was right on that one thing,...however Dump does not get excused for stupidly defending the times when Pop didn't use his deep rotation and we lost because of it. Dump does not get excused since Pop is substituting differently now, and he is doing what I advocated he should have been doing all along.

[whottt]

To summarize the conclusions of the Pre All Star debates:

1.Whottt and AHF said Barry and Horry needed more time, others hated and were proven wrong. We are most definitely a better team with Horry and Barry being a huge part of the rotation.

Whottt and AHF 1 Haters 0

2.Whottt and AHF, said Barry helps the team even if his shot isn't falling, with his offensive IQ, mastery of the transition and passing, and that Barry should continue to get important PT even in a shooting slump. Haters said I was wrong. Pop came out 2 weeks ago and said that verbatim, Barry helps the team even if his shot isn't falling. Scobode again.

Whottt and AHF 2 Haters 0

3.Whottt said we should use a 10 man rotation and go with whoever is clicking it that night...Haters said, "who are we, the Grizz? It'll never work." Pop now says a 10 man rotation it shall be.

Whottt 3 Haters 0

4.Whottt said Pop was going to be stupid and rot Barry and Horry out on the bench ala Malik last season and Kerr for most of his career...Chump, mainly, said it wouldn't be so and Barry would get more than 10 mins(even though mins were never my main point, situations were,...Obviously since I won all those others Chump won this one. And I think I will symbolically win this best if Pop does rot Brown and Rose out now...I don't want to win that symbolically either...anyway, I lost the bet with Chump, and am conceding it based on what Pop said in this article. So therefore...

Whottt 3 Haters 1

Apologies to all the others on the winning(right) side that I have forgotten...


On to the second half of the season.......

Will Devin continue to deserve to be starting(on talent and completeness of game, if not performance)?

or will Bruce tighten up the D?

Will we win 65+ games?

Will we start to win big road games because Pop trusts his full bench?

Stay tuned.

[Rummpd]

Whott:

Pretty fair and very intelligent posts all in all:

You did not state however the key reason we beat the Pacer's primarily was that Tim was on the floor enough and was back playing at an MVP level and he let Parker and Ginobli play in the 4th = LET the key 3 play enough! Let them get big minutes!

Also, who could predict that Horry would ever show the energy consistently that he has been doing and finally getting some rebounds? = he does that he can stay ahead of Rose - if not park his ass in favor of Rose.

Pop will continue to toy with his rotation and the Spurs will win anyway regardless most nights due to talent not his replacement style = that being said the fact remains at some point he will and needs to pick a top 8 that will get most minutes. I for one, do not care if it Barry over Brown or even Horry over Rose as long as their are some consistent reasons for changing up that make any sense or if he doesn't keep parking a hot player like Rasho (or even Barry) in the Sacramento game on bench.

Finally, Spurs will not probably win 65 - Pop will park all starters last couple of games when the Spurs have 1) either locked up 1 seed or 2) the Suns have and Spurs locked into 2 or God forbid 3. Prediction 63 and I have been right on win total last two years.

Again, though good thoughts.


MadDoc

[boutons]

"Horry would ever show the energy consistently"

Robert, along with Beno, is one my biggest pleasant surprises. I figured he'd give about what he gave last year (OK not that impressive or energetic), but he's giving a lot more in the last month, even taking risks driving twice from the top of the key, IIRC, vs Pacers. I'd fall on the floor if Robert is seen leading a fast break!!

The pleasant surprises somewhat offset the expectation, now frustrated, I had for Rasho that he'd play better in his 2nd Spur year, and put up the numbers he did at MIN.

I don't think the Spurs have a chance for 65 wins while shooting team FTs at 71%, and crunch-time goto-guy Duncan at 64%. 04/05 Spurs are a 65+ win team that loses 5+ games to missed team/Duncan FTs, as like in 02/03. The FT weakness will become more evident as most teams start to play better in the 2nd half of the season. SA/PHX/SEA/MIA will find the games tougher, the scores closer, the FTs more important.

If PHX, obviously unfazed by 2 new starters, plays the rest of the way as they have so far (losing only to top teams), they are gonna take top seed with 65+ wins. Spurs may have the best team, but they haven't consistently played the best basketball.

[ChumpDumper]

The efficiency has resulted even as coach Gregg Popovich has used a 10-man rotation and has begun rotating his five guards based on his seat-of-the-pants feel for each game.I said he's been doing this all along. It's not a set rotation with players used by rote. Thanks for catching up with what Pop always does. You were way behind the curve on this one.

[whottt]

Whott:

Pretty fair and very intelligent posts all in all:

You did not state however the key reason we beat the Pacer's primarily was that Tim was on the floor enough and was back playing at an MVP level and he let Parker and Ginobli play in the 4th = LET the key 3 play enough! Let them get big minutes!

I never thought Duncan stopped playing at an MVP level, in fact I said just that at the beginning of the Pacer game. He just wasn't needed to score as much...because we were putting up near 100 PPG without him scoring...his board and block totals didn't drop like his scoring. He had 1 bad game it could be argued, against Sac, but he has a bad game everyone once in a while anyway...I don't get to caught up in game to game totals, there is a reason they average numbers out over the course of the season...



Also, who could predict that Horry would ever show the energy consistently that he has been doing and finally getting some rebounds? = he does that he can stay ahead of Rose - if not park his ass in favor of Rose.

Everyone knows you don't judge Horry by stats, especially in the regular season, and since I was arguing for him to get more minutes(and raising hell when he got no PT against Orl), I am not surprises... ocassionally he will have some nice stats, but more often than not his contrubutions are best measured by what he does in critical moments.




Pop will continue to toy with his rotation and the Spurs will win anyway regardless most nights due to talent not his replacement style = that being said the fact remains at some point he will and needs to pick a top 8 that will get most minutes. I for one, do not care if it Barry over Brown or even Horry over Rose as long as their are some consistent reasons for changing up that make any sense or if he doesn't keep parking a hot player like Rasho (or even Barry) in the Sacramento game on bench.

That doesn't seem to be what he is saying in this article...and I hope he doesn't. I think it was proven pretty emphatically last season that Malik needs minutes on a fairly consistent basis if you want to get anything out of him.

Devin is still green, not giving him consistent minutes hinders his development.

I'm not going to argue real hard that Pop won't go to an 8 man rotation, but I will argue vehemently that it will be a mistake for him to do so, and the team will be lesser for it.


Finally, Spurs will not probably win 65 - Pop will park all starters last couple of games when the Spurs have 1) either locked up 1 seed or 2) the Suns have and Spurs locked into 2 or God forbid 3. Prediction 63 and I have been right on win total last two years.

Again, though good thoughts.


MadDoc


I usually don't try and predict what Pop will do(see the Chump bet for the reason why) because he and I just don't work on the same wavelegth and I disagree with a lot of things he does...

But one thing I am certain of...Pop will not want to go into the playoffs having shut it down for 2 or 3 games...he's a big believer in momentum...especially since the teams we end the season playing are teams we might have to face in the post season...he might shut it down for 1 game but he will not do it for 2 or 3.

Secondly, they are getting a ton of rest right now in the regular season...Parker and Duncan both have made comments that they might be getting more rest than they need...witness Duncan's career low in minutes per game...just how much rest do you think he needs?

Depth is getting him rest now...and Parker and Manu...and...

Thirdly, depth again, I think you underestimate the depth of this team, it has a bench capable of competing with and beating most NBA teams with the starters getting a lot of rest.

I don't think Pop is going to want to shut it down for 2 or 3 games, and I don't think the players will want to do that either. There's a such a thing as too much rest and we are already pushing it...

Our biggest aruments on the board this season are about not enough minutes to go around and who should be playing ahead of who, and a case could be made for all. Expect big wins if we stay healthy. And I think 63 wins will be a disappointment.

We've given away, at the bare minimum, 3 games in the first half of the season, we've actually been unlucky, and we are still on pace for 65 wins. We are going to win big this season(barring injury and stupid decision making).

[johnny00]

Hey I'm just glad Barry is getting quality minutes now. He is in my opinion, the best passer on the team. Positive things happen when he is out on the floor and although his defense still can use some work it was his shooting and court knowledge that got him on this team. PLEASE CONTINUE TO GIVE HIM HIS MINUTES POP!!!!!!

[ChumpDumper]

Our biggest aruments on the board this season are about not enough minutes to go around and who should be playing ahead of who, and a case could be made for all.Exactly. The ten-man "rotation" is always going to leave at least a couple of guys playing less than they are capable or what we want them to play. If everything is going fine, right now those guys are going to be Brown and Rose -- are you truly a "rotation" player if you are getting 9mpg? This is why I keep asking those people who want an actual ten-man rotation to actually put down numbers. Most couldn't becuase they don't want to be seen as shortchanging players they like -- but that's exactly what happens.

We will use those 10 players because the first 8 a) aren't suitable for every matchup that comes along and b) aren't consistent enough to be above benching in favor of players who aren't far off in terms of talent. Duncan of course is excluded -- but you get the whole rest factor working there.

[Nikos]

I regret it because Nikos needs 65 wins shoved up his butt, to prove he doesn't know what he is talking about, and the three unnecessary losses make that task much more difficult.

What are you babbling about now? Until the team wins 65 and a title, you have no right to include my name in any of your 'I told you so or I regret' essays.

[whottt]

Exactly. The ten-man "rotation" is always going to leave at least a couple of guys playing less than they are capable or what we want them to play. If everything is going fine, right now those guys are going to be Brown and Rose -- are you truly a "rotation" player if you are getting 9mpg? This is why I keep asking those people who want an actual ten-man rotation to actually put down numbers. Most couldn't becuase they don't want to be seen as shortchanging players they like -- but that's exactly what happens.

And I have said many times, that it's not the minutes in and of themselves that bother me...

It's blowing a 15 point lead due to bad offensive execution, missed FT's, bone head TO's and predicatable offense, without Barry or sometimes Horry getting a second of PT during that time, that bothers me. It's after those games that I have bitched.

I know how everyone preaches d on this board but there are limits to defense, just as there is with offense. While it is possible to hold a team scoreless for an extended period of time, that doesn't mean it's likely...

You cannot blow a 15-20 point lead in the span of a quarter or so without an offensive collapse of epic proportions. Defense plays it's role, but theoretically you should be able to be just a mediocre offensive team for a quarter and still win easily if you have thst kind of lead. Besides, bad offense is bad defense in someways...like TO's.

I view Barry as offensive grease, even if his 3 pointer isn't going in. The things we struggle with on offense historically...ball movement, FT shooting, safe passing, easy buckets, midrange J's, finishing breaks without blowing layups, are strengths of Brent Barry, it's just his natural game...And so I will complain when I see us blow leads without "greasing" the offense.

[whottt]

What are you babbling about now? Until the team wins 65 and a title, you have no right to include my name in any of your 'I told you so or I regret' essays.

RIF, I haven't told you so yet, nor was I trying to yet...but you need to be told I told you so eventually.

And winning the title has nothing to do with our argument.

FYI, since I know you like indepth stats, RPI says this team is underperforming, even your nifty little website you pointed me to says we have been unlucky, not unusual for the Spurs in the first half of the season...yet we are still on pace for 65 wins as we speak...and we tend to overperform in the second half.

Just you don't go anywhere Nikos...and the Spurs are inching towards that top 5 mark in offensive efficiency that you hold so dear. You were told it would happen.

[ChumpDumper]

I view Barry as offensive grease, even if his 3 pointer isn't going in. The things we struggle with on offense historically...ball movement, FT shooting, safe passing, easy buckets, midrange J's, finishing breaks without blowing layups, are strengths of Brent Barry, it's just his natural game...And so I will complain when I see us blow leads without "greasing" the offense.He was -2 last game. I guess we can chalk it up to the flu but it just shows he isn't always the answer.

[whottt]

I said he's been doing this all along. It's not a set rotation with players used by rote. Thanks for catching up with what Pop always does. You were way behind the curve on this one.

But that's just it, he hasn't been doing it all along, he started out the season doing it, at a time when I was quite happy, and then tried to tighten it in big games... in fact he's tried several times to tighten up the rotation and we lose nearly every time he does it.

I never said it should be a set rotation...you are the one that has always made it about set minutes. Always. You are the one who has brought up set minutes every single time we have argued about it. I know, you can't help you're dense and ignore what I say...And he hasn't always used even a loose 10 man rotation with the expected personnel...

Check the Orlando loss in which Horry was not given a second of PT when he had been the best bench big for the previous week...Why didn't he get PT at that point? Because Malik was still ahead of him in the rotation at that point...and that is the type of shit Pop usually does...what happened is Pop realized his rigidness was hurting the team more than anything...So you are wrong, again. Don't you even try to spin it...that Orlando loss will get shoved up your ass every time you do.

Note, one of us has class and owns up on a lost bet before it has even been lost...while the other...is still trying to defend Hedo>Manu...

Now fuck off deadbeat.

[whottt]

He was -2 last game. I guess we can chalk it up to the flu but it just shows he isn't always the answer.

Cease the stupidity. Some nights even Duncan would be - if he got no or limited minutes in the second half.

[boutons]

I was looking a NBA.com Top50 efficiency ratings. Spurs have only Tim in there, while other top teams: SAC 4, PHX 3, WAS 3, SEA 2, MIA 2.

[whottt]

I was looking a NBA.com Top50 efficiency ratings. Spurs have only Tim in there, while other top teams: SAC 4, PHX 3, WAS 3, SEA 2, MIA 2.


Your reading is inefficient...try looking again...look for a guy with initials E.G.

[ChumpDumper]

All you're doing is bitching about minutes, so why act like you aren't? Minutes for non-Duncan players are going to be inconsistent. Why did Horry not play in Orlando? Why did Rasho not play in the King game? Big fucking deal.
Note, one of us has class and owns up on a lost bet before it has even been lost...while the other...is still trying to defend Hedo>Manu...When all you can do is distort the record and admit defeat only after trying to change the terms of the bet 5 times. That is not class.
Because Malik was still ahead of him in the rotation at that point...and that is the type of shit Pop usually does.And now Horry (whom you prefer) is ahead of Rose, that's the only thing that has changed. You don't get it and never have.

[boutons]

"Your reading is inefficient"

is why I don't depend on it for this kind of work. browser find-in-page is what I used for my searches, and "spurs" gets one hit. How many does yours get?

[ChumpDumper]

Cease the stupidity. Some nights even Duncan would be - if he got no or limited minutes in the second half.He got plenty of time. Quit acting like you are not bitching about minutes.

[Jimcs50]

Spurs have scored over 109 pts four times so far this year,( less than half a year) that is only two times less than the last two years combined. I would say that this is the best offensive team SA has had in the TD era.

[whottt]

All you're doing is bitching about minutes, so why act like you aren't?

No, you fucking idiot, that's not what I am bitching about. You're fucking to stupid to figure it out. I've only been saying the same thing since this shit began.



Minutes for non-Duncan players are going to be inconsistent.

You are arguing with yourself on this one. Just shut the fuck up, if you can't figure out what I am saying, then there's really no point in arguing about it anymore.


Why did Horry not play in Orlando?

Stupidity.



When all you can do is distort the record and admit defeat only after trying to change the terms of the bet 5 times.

I'm not distorting the record idiot.

The only terms I questioned were terms we never agreed upong because you are fucking idiot who answers yes to multiple choice questions.


You don't get it and never have.


Fucking a you are dense fuck. Go crush cans with your forehead.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not distorting the record idiot. Saying Hedo>Manu is a clear distortion and a stupid oversimplification.
The only terms I questioned were terms we never agreed upong because you are fucking idiot who answers yes to multiple choice questions.No you started weaseling right after the first post. It's all there for everyone to see.
if you can't figure out what I am sayingI know exactly what you are saying. You want to micromanage the PT of every Spur and the slightest deviation from your ideal makes you wet your pants. "If only we had played ___ at ___ time -- guaranteed win." We get it.

[whottt]

He got plenty of time. Quit acting like you are not bitching about minutes.

I don't recall bitching about Barry's minutes after the Pacer game...I wanted him in the second half when we were choking a lead away and I got him..and I was quite happy with it. I wasn't happy with it because Barry was going to average a certain amount of minutes...


...I was happy with it because it was tough game and Pop trusted Barry at an important stage of the game and gave him a chance to impact the game....unlike with Horry in the Orl loss, or Barry in the Houston and Seattle losses...etc.

IF that weak -2 shit is the best you can do, just fuck off before you embarass yourself.

[ChumpDumper]

"If only we had played ___ at ___ time -- guaranteed win."

[whottt]

Saying Hedo>Manu is a clear distortion and a stupid oversimplification.

Takes one to know one, besides, that was the title of the thread in which the debate originated and you stood firmly on the side of it's author.


No you started weaseling right after the first post.
Yawn.


You want to micromanage the PT of every Spur and the slightest deviation from your ideal makes you wet your pants.

No, blowing leads due to stupidity upsets me...it really upsets me when the most offensively smart players are not given a chance to stem the tide. I'm not near as picky about it as you want to imagine. It's pretty obvious what sets me off. And stop saying it's about set minutes with me because it isn't. It's about giving our 5 excellent bench players a chance to impact the game in both halves...that's all it's about.



"If only we had played ___ at ___ time -- guaranteed win." We get it.

More like...If only we had given Barry a chance in the second half while we are blowing a lead, or given Horry any PT at all in a game...we might not have lost it. Even if Barry's shot isn't falling...and even if Horry hadn't been playing good : puke

And don't speak for the collective...

[whottt]

"Your reading is inefficient"

is why I don't depend on it for this kind of work. browser find-in-page is what I used for my searches, and "spurs" gets one hit. How many does yours get?

Dunno because I never use browser find, if I am searching for it in that way I'll type it into my google bar.

Edit: BTW, if you look up efficiency per 48 you see Tim at #1 and Manu at #7...Spurs are the only team with two players in the top 10 eff/per48.

[ChumpDumper]

you stood firmly on the side of it's author"leaning" toward Hedo's being a better player than Manu by the end of his career is a firm "Manu > Hedo" the very second of that argument? More distortion by you.
More like...If only we had given Barry a chance in the second half while we are blowing a lead, or given Horry any PT at all in a game...we might not have lost it.Nice backtracking. Then quit saying those games were thrown away.

[boutons]

theres's only one Spurs hit on this page:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/2004/default_regular_season_leaders/LeagueLeadersEFFQuery.html?topic=0&stat=27

vs 2 -4 hits for other contenders.

[whottt]

http://www.vanderkrogt.net/elements/images/witzke/Osmium-Gongo_Bocco_Brazil.JPG

[whottt]

theres's only one Spurs hit on this page:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/2004/default_regular_season_leaders/LeagueLeadersEFFQuery.html?topic=0&stat=27

vs 2 -4 hits for other contenders.

Weird, I got there through this page:


http://www.nba.com/statistics/efficiency.html

Click on the leaders link at the top of the center of the page and it takes you to an old page. Yours is the newer one...Jason Hart being among the league leaders probably should have tipped me...but I was looking for Manu and Manu only.

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.weeonesfarm.com/images/RomeoBraying.jpg

[whottt]

http://laputa.de/brutus/bullshit.jpg