Could Manu make the Hall of Fame???

[dbreiden83080]

No this is not an overreaction to his current play i have thought about this for a while. What do you guys think?? He is 30 years old and seems to be coming into his full prime as a player. He has 3 rings and an olympic gold medal. Lets say he has another 4 or 5 years in him, playing at a similar level and wins lets say 1 more NBA title. I'm not talking first ballot induction here but do we think that would be enough to get him in eventually???

[batboy]

He's a HOF lock already based on achievement and nationality.

[whottt]

He's had the HOF locked up for about 2 years....because of his international origin and achievements.

[remingtonbo2001]

Are you kidding me?!?

Name the following players whom have led their respective national team to a Gold Medal and have been apart of multiple NBA Championship teams?

I think it's safe to say Manu is the greatest international player the NBA has come across.

[batboy]

He's had the HOF locked up for about 2 years....because of his international origin and achievements.

echo in here :P

[dbreiden83080]

Are you kidding me?!?

Name the following players whom have led their respective national team to a Gold Medal and have been apart of multiple NBA Championship teams?

I think it's safe to say Manu is the greatest international player the NBA has come across.

I ask the question because if you wanted to build a case against him it would be that his stats are not in line with many other hall of fame inductees. I think it is a fair question to ask and Manu i feel is not at this point a lock to be in the HOF, although i hope i am wrong.

[Medvedenko]

Based on his international play and his decent NBA career. Getting 3 rings helps, but there's a lot of guys with 3 rings or more that aren't in the HOF.

[batboy]

Are you kidding me?!?

Name the following players whom have led their respective national team to a Gold Medal and have been apart of multiple NBA Championship teams?


Depends on what you mean by "led" but:

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Pippen
Robinson

[dbreiden83080]

Based on his international play and his decent NBA career. Getting 3 rings helps, but there's a lot of guys with 3 rings or more that aren't in the HOF.

He's had a better than decent NBA career it has been pretty damn GOOD.

[El_Mago]

He's already in.

It's not the National Basketball Association Hall of Fame.

Just the Basketball Hall of Fame; thus, he's already in based on international and NBA achievements.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Based on his international play and his decent NBA career. Getting 3 rings helps, but there's a lot of guys with 3 rings or more that aren't in the HOF.Name another player that has won at least an NBA ring, an Olympic Gold and a European Championship? There is none. He makes the Hall of Fame, no doubt because of his international accomplishments, but he definitely makes it in.

[batboy]

Based on his international play and his decent NBA career. Getting 3 rings helps, but there's a lot of guys with 3 rings or more that aren't in the HOF.

He was a fucking core starter on all three of those.

[mob]

a man with his resume and some of it coming from international games....


a lock

[remingtonbo2001]

Depends on what you mean by "led" but:

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Pippen
Robinson


That's a pretty nice list to be apart of.

[whottt]

Name another player that has won at least an NBA ring, an Olympic Gold and a European Championship? There is none. He makes the Hall of Fame, no doubt because of his international accomplishments, but he definitely makes it in.



I don't think there are any but Toni Kukoc came pretty close...


IIRC he has 3 Euroleague Championships
3 NBA Championships
2 Olympic Silver Medals(in the era when it was impossible to beat the Dream Team)
A FIBA World Championship
A FIBA World Jr Championship

[dbreiden83080]

I don't think there are any but Toni Kukoc came pretty close...


IIRC he has 3 Euroleague Championships
3 NBA Championships
2 Silver Medals(in the era when it was impossible to beat the Dream Team
A FIBA World Championship
A FIBA World Jr Championship

I don't see him making it to the HOF, do you??? That might be a test case against Manu getting in.

[whottt]

I don't see him making it to the HOF, do you??? That might be a test case against Manu getting in.


Yeah...I think he'll make the HOF.


There are completely different standards for International Players...he wasn't as good as Manu was though, and that is pretty obvious to anyone who has seen them play...so that might hurt him.

[Fabbs]

4 titles in 6 years will vault SuperManu and the Spurs into indisputable territory IMO. Right now you still have the Laker squakers and their "thweepeet" etc along with Spurs/GNob never having repeated.

Key players in 4 of 6 is very rare.
4 in his 1st 6 years careerwise puts him only behind the 60s Celts i believe.

[anakha]

Interesting topic brought up here...

As someone who never saw Kukoc play until the '92 Olympics and his Bulls debut, I'd like to ask - at his peak, how good was Kukoc's game compared to Ginobili's?

[inconvertible]

is there really any question????

strange thread, to say the least.

[Mr. Body]

He's made it on international + some domestic achievements. Hasn't won it from domestic alone, but he's in.

Question: When do announcers start referring to him as "future HOFer" like they do Duncan? I think he'd have to do something magnificent, like win a Finals MVP.

[Brutalis]

Manu will be in the HOF you can bank everything you own on it.

No bias or anything, from a basketball standpoint the HOF isn't the NBA HOF it's just basketball HOF and he's a shoe in.

[dbreiden83080]

is there really any question????

strange thread, to say the least.

Strange, you thinking it is a lock is strange. Dominique Wilkins, who was an offensive machine did not get in on the first ballot and you think Manu is a lock, he isn't.

[FromWayDowntown]

Drazen Petrovic is in and Manu's resume is substantially more accomplished than Petro's was -- and Petrovic was an absolutely wonderful player.

I've been arguing for years that Manu is in and I don't see any reason why that has changed. He led the first non-American club to win the Olympic Gold in the Dream Team era; his teams have been consistently among the best in World Championships (2nd in 2002 and 4th in 2006); and there are those NBA titles, plus a Euroleague title in 2001, an Italian League Championship in 2001 and the Italian Cup in 2001 and 2002.

But it's not just that his teams have been successful -- it's that he has the hardware to show that he's been a driving force of those successes: he's and he's twice been named to the All-Tournament team in those World Championship tournaments; he certainly would have been MVP of the Olympic tournament in 2004 (he was named such by a number of outlets); he was MVP of Euroleague in 2001. He's been an NBA All-Star.

Add to all of that the fact that he is undoubtedly the most accomplished basketball player from South America (Oscar Schmidt didn't do all that Manu has) and the odds of his induction seem incredibly high. He might not be named by the general committee, but he will undoubtedly be nominated by the international committee and I have no doubt that the nomination will end with a well-deserved enshrinement.

[Holt's Cat]

Well, he at least has three more postseasons and two more seasons with the Spurs, in addition to the Olympics this summer.

[dbreiden83080]

Drazen Petrovic is in and Manu's resume is substantially more accomplished than Petro's was -- and Petrovic was an absolutely wonderful player.


True but i think the tragedy surrounding his death had something to do with his induction.

[FromWayDowntown]

True but i think the tragedy surrounding his death had something to do with his induction.

I'm not sure that's entirely true -- I think Petrovic's induction was the product of a prolific resume developed in international play. His Yugoslavian teams were very much like Manu's Argentian teams. Petrovic won 3 Olympic medals: bronze and 2 silvers. He also won a World Championship in 1990 and his team finished 3rd in 1986 (he was the MVP of the 1986 tournament).

I'm not sure that was just a sympathy enshrinement.

[m33p0]

on an NBA standpoint, maybe. on basketball in general, yes.

[roycrikside]

Strange, you thinking it is a lock is strange. Dominique Wilkins, who was an offensive machine did not get in on the first ballot and you think Manu is a lock, he isn't.

Nique never played in even one Finals. I don't know if he even made a conference finals. If you're upset that announcers haven't referred to Manu as a HOFer, you have to remember that all the talking heads are complete idiots and aren't even aware that the HOF isn't the NBA HOF but rather the Basketball HOF. They let women's coaches, international coaches, and numerous international players that have never even played in the NBA into this thing.

Manu is in, it's a lock. He could retire tomorrow and he'd be in. The interesting case will be Tony. He'll have as many NBA rings as Manu, but virtually no international resume as he's barely played for his country or abroad and had no success on that stage.

[WalterBenitez]

It is a joke, right?

Yes of course, no one had mastered national leagues, european league, Olympics and NBA rigns ... the only MVP he didn't conquered yet is NBA ... (well 2005 is still fresh :p: )

Manu is already knocking the door to HOF.

[temujin]

Drazen Petrovic was the best european basketball player.

The question is not IF but WHEN Ginobili will be named.

Parker is another sure bet, provided that he wins somethng with France.

[Kobayagi]

do we think that would be enough to get him in eventually???



He's Manu Ginobili.

[wildbill2u]

I don't know if they (who is they?) vote for international players in a separate category. If so, he's probably in.

But it's a damn shame he won't have a long string of NBA All-star designations behind his name due to splitting votes with Parker & Duncan and coming off the bench and his age.

[Spurs Brazil]

Manu to Hall of Fame is a lock

[hater]

Parker is another sure bet, provided that he wins somethng with France.

good luck with that. French players are good, athletic and young but non have any mental toughness or high bball IQ.

[samikeyp]

yes.

[smeagol]

Manu does not get inducted in the HOF, the HOF beggs Manu to accept being an inductee.

Oooppss . . . wrong thread . . .!

[NRHector]

No this is not an overreaction to his current play i have thought about this for a while. What do you guys think?? He is 30 years old and seems to be coming into his full prime as a player. He has 3 rings and an olympic gold medal. Lets say he has another 4 or 5 years in him, playing at a similar level and wins lets say 1 more NBA title. I'm not talking first ballot induction here but do we think that would be enough to get him in eventually???
the question is "when"

[WalterBenitez]

the question is "when"

The real question is why he is not already in :eyebrows

[The Franchise]

That's like asking can Dwight Howard dunk!!!!

[Felonius Monk]

International Players in the HOF (I might have missed one or two).

Sergei Belov, Russia

Soviet National Team, World Championship, 1967, 1974
Soviet National Team, European Championship, 1967, 1969
Olympic Gold Medal, 1972

Kresimi Cosic, Croatia

All American, Brigham Young, 1972-73
Olympic Gold Medal, 1980
Gold Medal, World Championship, 1970, 1978
3 European Club Championships

Drazen Dalipagic, Yugoslavia

European Player of the Year, 1977, 1978, 1980
Olympic Gold Medal, 1980
Gold Medal, World Championships of Basketball, 1978
Gold Medal, European Championships, 1973, 1975, 1977

Dino Meneghin, Italy

Named by Gigante del Basket as the greatest player in European history, 1991
European Championship, 1983
National Team Records for most games played (271) and most points (2,947)

Drazen Petrovic, Croatia

Olympic Silver Medal, 1988 and 1992
Gold Medal, World Championship, 1990
Croatian Sportsman of the Year, 1985, 1986, 1988
All NBA 3rd Team, 1993

[howbouthemspurs]

The question isn't "could Manu make the hall of fame".. The question should be " How could he not be in the HOF?

[GrandeDavid]

He's extremely accomplished and is leaving and certainly will have left his mark on the NBA by the time he retires. Multiple league, world and olympic titles is awesome nowadays with international competition so stiff. I would hope he'd get in, yes.

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't know if they (who is they?) vote for international players in a separate category. If so, he's probably in.

But it's a damn shame he won't have a long string of NBA All-star designations behind his name due to splitting votes with Parker & Duncan and coming off the bench and his age.

There are 4 "screening committees" for the Hall of Fame: one for North American men, one for women, one for international players, and one for veterans (whose careers ended at least 35 years ago or more). The screening committees consist of 7 members (but the North American men's committee consists of 9 members) and a potential inductee must get the votes of 5 of those 7 to be passed along to the Honors Committee. The international committee can pass along as many as 2 candidates every year.

If the international committee passes along a player, that nomination is sent to the Honors Committee (if the Board of Trustees approves the nomination). There are apparently 4 Honors committees consisting of 24 members each, but there are 12 people who sit on all 4 committees. Thus, there are 12 general members on the international committee and 12 specialists on that committee. To gain enshrinement in the Hall, a nominee must get 18 of the 24 votes from the particular Honors committee to which his nomination was sent.

I'd think it's extremely likely that Manu's nomination will come through the international committee (though it could come through the North American committee if his play in North America warranted that -- Dirk Nowitzki, for instance, might be nominated in that fashion). That puts him into a somewhat different posture than other NBA players in terms of his chances for enshrinement and I would think those chances are greatly enhanced by virtue of the fact that he'll be considered by a committee that will give a great deal of weight to his international performances and will pitch his case in terms of his being the dominant international player of this era.

[ThomasGranger]

Yes, but will the Spurs retire his number?















(kidding, of course)

[JamStone]

He was a fucking core starter on all three of those.

Two.

[The Truth #6]

Tangent - I'd like to see a list of these players that have at least 3 rings that aren't/won't be in the Hall of Fame. Kukoc, Horry, Kerr...I can't imagine there being that many more though I could be forgetting some. There's Rodman, though I think he should be in the HOF discussion at least.

[dbreiden83080]

Tangent - I'd like to see a list of these players that have at least 3 rings that aren't/won't be in the Hall of Fame. Kukoc, Horry, Kerr...I can't imagine there being that many more though I could be forgetting some. There's Rodman, though I think he should be in the HOF discussion at least.

Rodman that is a great one right there, he is not in the HOF and likely won't get in thanks to his lousy rep but his stats and of course his rings all 5 of them should be more than enough to get him in but he probably will never get there. Horry is another one, that has been debated since he has 7 rings as a role player. Remember during the last 2 finals he was in that was a big debate and most people said NO he is not going to get in. I guess Manu's international acclaim will put him over the top, which is great as i feel he deserves it.

[hater]

Only players to win Olympic gold and multiple NBA championships:

MJ
Magic
Hakeem
Shaq
DRob
Pippen
Ginobili

and Manu is the only player to do that without the "dream team"

end of thread.

[beirmeistr]

If Bill Walton got into the Hall of Fame based on his college accomplishments (I guess), then Gino should be able to get in based on his international accomplishments and NBA accomplishments.

[dbreiden83080]

Nique never played in even one Finals. I don't know if he even made a conference finals.

Oh come on now Nique was one of most physically talented players of all time. He has a career scoring AVG of almost 25 PPG and scored almost 27,000 points, that puts him 9th all time. Ahead of the likes of Barkley, Ewing, Jerry West and Reggie Miller. He played on shitty teams his whole career, but there is little doubt though he was a better player than Manu. Anyone who says otherwise is being wayyyyyy to much of a Manu fan. Nique not getting in on the first ballot was a pretty big disgrace and it shows that not everyone we think may be such a lock for induction.

[dbreiden83080]

If Bill Walton got into the Hall of Fame based on his college accomplishments (I guess), then Gino should be able to get in based on his international accomplishments and NBA accomplishments.

Then why is someone like Rodman not in when he has 5 titles and was a dominant rebounder and defender?? Horry won't get in either.

[hater]

Then why is someone like Rodman not in when he has 5 titles and was a dominant rebounder and defender?? Horry won't get in either.

read again. "international accomplishments"

[dbreiden83080]

There was an article recently on ESPN.com discussing some of the greats that have yet to get in, this is a little bit of it.


http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=2394981

"Dennis Johnson, Guard
An all-around performer, D.J. played in six NBA Finals and was on the winning side in three of them. He was a five-time All-Star who was named to the All-Defensive first team six times (1979-83 and 1987)."


Bernard King, Forward
At his rapid-fire peak -- three scorching years in New York from 1983 through 1985 -- King was an irrepressible offensive force.

"There has not been a better post-up 6-6 or 6-7 player in the league than Bernard King," says Hubie Brown, who coached him in New York from 1983 to 1985.


Adrian Dantley, Forward
Dantley has been nominated four times but has never received the welcome call from Springfield.
He is one of the few basketball players in history to average 30 points a game for four straight seasons (1980-81 to 1983-84), and he led the league in scoring twice.

Artis Gilmore, Center
Gilmore is the greatest eligible center not in the Hall of Fame.


"I have no idea why he's not in," said Brown, who coached Gilmore with Kentucky, including in 1975, when the Colonels won the ABA championship. "He's the most dominant center in the history of the ABA. He dominated college basketball at Gardner-Webb Junior College, then at Jacksonville, and was the Most Valuable Player in the 1975 playoffs. In the playoffs, he posted overpowering statistics, averaging 24 points and 18 rebounds. He was All-ABA first team five years in a row.

His 16,330 rebounds are fourth all-time in pro ball, behind only Chamberlain, Russell and Abdul-Jabbar. He scored 24,041 points. The two totals combined are good enough for seventh place in history.

__________________________________________________ _____

Now i hope what most are saying about his international play is true getting him in because it is quite clear that a number of players, better than Manu are still waiting to get the call.

[TMTTRIO]

If it was only the NBA Hall Of Fame then Manu wouldn't make it. But again it's a Basketball Hall Of Fame and I see Manu making it based on his international accomplishments. His international resume is pretty impressive. He's won some kind of award/championship every year (including NBA). He was the leader of the first team that beat Team USA ever since they started using NBA players and led them to a gold medal which is pretty impressive.

[dbreiden83080]

If it was only the NBA Hall Of Fame then Manu wouldn't make it. But again it's a Basketball Hall Of Fame and I see Manu making it based on his international accomplishments. His international resume is pretty impressive. He's won some kind of award/championship every year (including NBA). He was the leader of the first team that beat Team USA ever since they started using NBA players and led them to a gold medal which is pretty impressive.

I hope that carries as much weight as you say because when a guy who has 24,000 pts and 16,000 Reb is not in, it makes you wonder what the hell the exact criteria is for getting in?? Obviously there is not a set standard of rules and there is a degree of subjectivity to all of this.

[Behrooz24]

You can rule out the fashion hall of fame
http://i31.tinypic.com/10xszyw.jpg

[batboy]

Only players to win Olympic gold and multiple NBA championships:

MJ
Magic
Hakeem
Shaq
DRob
Pippen
Ginobili

and Manu is the only player to do that without the "dream team"

end of thread.

Oops I had forgotten about Hakeem in a previous post. Got his citizenship right before that iirc. I left off Shaq too but you are forgetting Bird.

[dbreiden83080]

it doesn't mean that he won't get in!

I think it is a good debate. I don't agree with what so many have said here that Manu is a lock to get in because of international success. Just look at that article i posted. You have some guys out there with all time great stats and guys with titles that were damn fine players and they are not in the HOF. Guys who were better players then Manu. Clearly the HOF does not have one set criteria where if you meet it you are in. I can see a scenario where Manu does not even come close to getting in. You just never know how these things are going to go.