wow...a parents second worst nightmare...

[CosmicCowboy]

Some friends of mine just found out their 14 year old girl (recently turned 14) is pregnant...

What an awful mess...It could potentially rip this family apart. This child is in NO WAY ready to be a mother...and the pro-life/termination debate is being waged hot and heavy...

And the law is clear...the only one that can decide is the child.

It's just really really sad.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I'm no fortune teller, but I'm pretty sure two major debates are about to pop off in here, too.

Pro-life/termination and abstinence/real sex ed in schools.

[marini martini]

That's tough, 14 is awful young. I hope her and her family can come to a reasonable decision.

[travis2]

*sigh*

[Heath Ledger]

My sister got pregnant at 14 and had her first child at 15 and she turned out all right. She now has 6 kids, is addicted to coke and on Welfare, and lets not forget 3 different daddys one of which in between the other prenancies on more than one occasion.

But really she turned out just great. She's a good person.

[Trainwreck2100]

:lol
Reminds me of this one time a young girl maybe 16 bought a pregnancy test from my store. I asked if she wanted a receipt she said no I said "Good move, best not to leave any evidence, huh" She then stormed off.

[BacktoBasics]

This is why we shouldn't teach sex in school. Once you start teaching sex education and showing these kids how to use condoms and dildos you get a bunch of know it all horn dogs that don't realize you can't get preggo the first time. I blame the school system. Definately not the girl or the parents.

[Slomo]

*sigh*Yep... :(




Now if you'll excuse me I'm off shopping for some electrified barb wire, that I'm getting for myself as a present for my daughter's birthday. :devil




Next year I'm redecorating the living room to make it a more appropriate environment to welcome visitors. I'm thinking something along these lines:

http://www.nationalfirearmsmuseum.org/whats%20new/graphics/lcsmith.jpg

My new coffee table book will fit in nicely

http://www.tidelinebooks.co.uk/images/2006%20Standard%20catalog%20of%20FIREARMS.jpg

[Trainwreck2100]

This is why we shouldn't teach sex in school. Once you start teaching sex education and showing these kids how to use condoms and dildos you get a bunch of know it all horn dogs that don't realize you can't get preggo the first time. I blame the school system. Definately not the girl or the parents.

I blame myspace, fuckin Tom

[BacktoBasics]

I blame myspace, fuckin Tom
more like peeping tom

[Heath Ledger]

Slomo You Are Exposed As A Bandwidth Thief!

[travis2]

Yep... :(




Now if you'll excuse me I'm off shopping for some electrified barb wire, that I'm getting for myself as a present for my daughter's birthday. :devil




Next year I'm redecorating the living room to make it a more appropriate environment to welcome visitors. I'm thinking something along these lines:

http://www.nationalfirearmsmuseum.org/whats%20new/graphics/lcsmith.jpg

My new coffee table book will fit in nicely

http://www.tidelinebooks.co.uk/images/2006%20Standard%20catalog%20of%20FIREARMS.jpg

oh yeah....:lol

[DarkReign]

Pull. Out.

[1369]

Yep... :(




Now if you'll excuse me I'm off shopping for some electrified barb wire, that I'm getting for myself as a present for my daughter's birthday. :devil




Next year I'm redecorating the living room to make it a more appropriate environment to welcome visitors. I'm thinking something along these lines:

http://www.nationalfirearmsmuseum.org/whats%20new/graphics/lcsmith.jpg

My new coffee table book will fit in nicely

http://www.tidelinebooks.co.uk/images/2006%20Standard%20catalog%20of%20FIREARMS.jpg

Here's what my running buddies and I are planning when the daughter gets older...

x4pIJtt48g4

[Trainwreck2100]

Pull. Out.

Butt. Sechs.

[greywheel]

What an awful mess...It could potentially rip this family apart. This child is in NO WAY ready to be a mother...and the pro-life/termination debate is being waged hot and heavy...

And the law is clear...the only one that can decide is the child.


So the parents agree on what they feel the child should do and the child is disagreeing? Or do the parents not agree either?

From the second sentence, I am guessing the former. And if the parents were pro-choice there would be no issue on the child's decision, I am guessing it is the other way around. I'm surprised the parents have no say considering the age of the child.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

a fine example of why parents should actually parent and stop being their kids "friends". you reap what you sow.

[thispego]

i think this family should watch Juno and make a decision based on that

[CosmicCowboy]

So the parents agree on what they feel the child should do and the child is disagreeing? Or do the parents not agree either?

From the second sentence, I am guessing the former. And if the parents were pro-choice there would be no issue on the child's decision, I am guessing it is the other way around. I'm surprised the parents have no say considering the age of the child.

Ahhh...much more complicated than that. Both parents support termination despite religious reservations. The child is just too young to be a mother.

An older sister and her husband are the adamant pro-choicers and are trying to sway the girl to keep the baby and threatening to break from the family if they allow her to terminate.They are offering to raise the baby till she is "old" enough to take care of it. They already have three kids under 5 years old.

Just a very fucked up situation. this isn't some inner city kid where having a baby is seen as being "smart" to get the welfare money. The girl was emotionally fragile before this...I can't imagine her walking in to her first day as a freshman in high school being 7 months pregnant. Kids that age can be incredibly vicious.

[duncan228]

Where is the father of this baby? I assume he's the girl's boyfriend...Is he involved in any way?

[MannyIsGod]

Ahhh...much more complicated than that. Both parents support termination despite religious reservations. The child is just too young to be a mother.

Man, I wonder if that means that they were adamently pro life until this happend and now all of a sudden they're KINDA pro choice. I hope not because I really really really really dislike those kind of people.

Either way, wtf are 14 year olds doing havin sex? The kid is going be messed up either way this goes.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

i think this family should watch Juno and make a decision based on that

I laughed.

[thispego]

I laughed.
thanks, I only needed one :tu

[Trainwreck2100]

Where is the father of this baby? I assume he's the girl's boyfriend...Is he involved in any way?

If the girl's father is any good he should be face down in the dirt somewhere with alot of bruises and some broken bones.

[MannyIsGod]

If the girl's father is any good he should be face down in the dirt somewhere with alot of bruises and some broken bones.You're just mad the kid did what you can't.

[CosmicCowboy]

Man, I wonder if that means that they were adamently pro life until this happend and now all of a sudden they're KINDA pro choice. I hope not because I really really really really dislike those kind of people.

Either way, wtf are 14 year olds doing havin sex? The kid is going be messed up either way this goes.

Manny...they weren't radical pro-lifers but they were both raised catholic...so that potentially raises guilt/angst issues.

And it's a little late to place blame and or second guess...whats done is done.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny...they weren't radical pro-lifers but they were both raised catholic...so that potentially raises guilt/angst issues.

And it's a little late to place blame and or second guess...whats done is done.Well if you're raised catholic you can say < fill in the blank > raises guilt issues so I can understand. I just really hate to see people who are strongly pro life until they need an abortion. Its horrible to try to deny people something you use when you need it was my only point.

I hope everything works out for them with whatever they choose.

[BacktoBasics]

Well if you're raised catholic you can say < fill in the blank > raises guilt issues so I can understand. I just really hate to see people who are strongly pro life until they need an abortion. Its horrible to try to deny people something you use when you need it was my only point.

I hope everything works out for them with whatever they choose.Now isn't that the Religeous/American way?

[BacktoBasics]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 13 (9 members and 4 guests)
BacktoBasics, Trainwreck2100, 1369, slacker77, thispego, Viva Las Espuelas, mrose31, greywheel, FromWayDowntown



I can't fucking wait for this shit.

[degenerate_gambler]

placing the baby up for adoption not an option?

[MannyIsGod]

Sell it on the black market IMO.

[SpursWoman]

I pray every day that this is something I'll never have to face ... because it's no longer beyond the realm of possibility. I hope I've been doing a good enough job. :fro

[travis2]

I pray every day that this is something I'll never have to face ... because it's no longer beyond the realm of possibility. I hope I've been doing a good enough job. :fro

You can tell who the parents are on this thread, that's for sure...

[Trainwreck2100]

Just a very fucked up situation. this isn't some inner city kid where having a baby is seen as being "smart" to get the welfare money. The girl was emotionally fragile before this...I can't imagine her walking in to her first day as a freshman in high school being 7 months pregnant. Kids that age can be incredibly vicious.

All the boys in that school would know the she's "good for it"

[CosmicCowboy]

placing the baby up for adoption not an option?

Everything is an option. I'm just saying that this is an emotionally fragile CHILD that could be entering a predominantly white middle class high school next fall 7 months pregnant. I may be old, but I can still remember how vicious high school kids can be.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

i think this family should watch Juno and make a decision based on thatamerican society already follows hollywood a little too much. that's why we're in this "me me me" state that we're in.

[jcrod]

Everything is an option. I'm just saying that this is an emotionally fragile CHILD that could be entering a predominantly white middle class high school next fall 7 months pregnant. I may be old, but I can still remember how vicious high school kids can be.


They can pull her out for a year and home school till after birth. Its an option and that shouldn't sway their descision.

I hope i never have to be in this position, I too hope i'm doing a good enough job with my kids. I hate to think my little girls would be doing this at this age. Even with my son, way too early to be having to deal with this.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 13 (9 members and 4 guests)
BacktoBasics, Trainwreck2100, 1369, slacker77, thispego, Viva Las Espuelas, mrose31, greywheel, FromWayDowntown



I can't fucking wait for this shit.wait for what? an opinion. i'm a man, remember. you just yell at women for having opinions.

[Trainwreck2100]

You're just mad the kid did what you can't.

I completely support the right to take advantage of the emotionally fragile, that's why God invented them. But you got to nip this sort of behavior in the bud.

[Spurminator]

If she's not emotionally ready to go through pregnancy, I can't imagine she'd be ready for the kind of guilt she's going to have to carry from terminating the pregnancy either.

I won't pretend to be an expert on the subject but I am very close to someone who had a baby at 17 and gave him up for adoption, and she's very happy with her decision. She still receives photos and a letter from the adoptive parents twice a year.

Best of luck to them, this is a tough situation and it's certainly not something that only happens to "bad parents."

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Everything is an option. I'm just saying that this is an emotionally fragile CHILD that could be entering a predominantly white middle class high school next fall 7 months pregnant. I may be old, but I can still remember how vicious high school kids can be.

So have her parents bus her to one of those non-white schools with a bunch of preggo teenagers.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

You can tell who the parents are on this thread, that's for sure...hopefully you're not insinuating that the people with no kids are saying stuff they wouldn't be saying if they were a parent. maybe "we" are, but a lot of "parents" i see just bend over to there kids. i've seen teenagers cuss at their parents. tell them to f' off and all sorts of stuff, and they still get everything handed to them. if my parents were their parents, they'd have a permanent hand indention on their ass and face, and that's just the tip of that messy iceberg. i don't envy your job, but i sure aint going to go that route when it comes up.

[BacktoBasics]

wait for what? an opinion. i'm a man, remember. you just yell at women for having opinions.I don't yell at women for having opinions I yell at stupid people for having stupid pointless opinions. Thats usually you male or female no matter I'm the enemy of idiocy from all genders.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I don't yell at women for having opinions I yell at stupid people for having stupid pointless opinions. Thats usually you male or female no matter I'm the enemy of idiotic from all genders.i can't imagine all that inner fighting.

[BacktoBasics]

i can't imagine all that inner fighting.B+

[Slomo]

Here's what my running buddies and I are planning when the daughter gets older...

x4pIJtt48g4:lol:tu

I love that scene. Major props to the poor kid for not laughing during it.


On a more serious note:

She's too young. I fully agree with you when you call her a kid. I'm not sure which solution will/would leave less of an emotional scar.
The family fighting over her choice is fucked up enough - I hope they can set it aside and help her make the best possible decision.

[ploto]

If the girl is already emotionally fragile, I hope they consider what having an abortion could do to her already fragile state. While the effects may not be as outward as having to deal with the looks and comments at being pregnant, they will still be there. I also hope that the parents will not be predominantly motivated by outward appearance and the fact that a pregnancy can't be hidden but an abortion can. I also hope they will consider adoption, as there are people desperate to have children who simply can not. While no parent wants to be in this situation, teaching the child to handle the consequences- which may include people's comments and judgments- is part of life.

[spurster]

It's her decision.

What's sounds horrible about the situation is her sister and parents making ultimatums. What they should be doing is presenting the alternatives and their consequences, then let her make her decision, and finally love and support her even if (and especially if) they don't support her decision. Personally, I am pro-choice, but this situation sounds like a win-win with her sister willing to step in and help.

As for school, she should go to the strictest school they can manage. She's shown that she can't responsibly handle the freedom she was given.

[2Blonde]

I'm a pro-choice Catholic. I certainly understand the parent's point of view, I would probably feel the same way they do if I was in their shoes.

I know the discussions my daughter and I have had on the subject lead me to believe that as a teenager she has no concept of what is truly involved. She is pro-choice but thinks she could never have an abortion herself. At that age, you just can't make them see how difficult life will be. You always hope for the best for your child, but it's really hard when you go from hoping that "best" is a college degree and a great happy life to hoping they just finish high school.

My heart goes out to these parents and I pray I am never in their situation.


Either way, wtf are 14 year olds doing havin sex? this goes.

Manny,
Have you ever tried to stop a teenager from having sex?

[macdude06]

The sad thing is i work in an emergency room..and theres kids/mothers all the time that are 15-16 pregnant and bringing in there 1-2 yr olds in to get checked out...there still on the pediatric side themselves technically...or even labor and delivery will fax us paper work on moms that are 15 giving birth...it happens so much these days..and when they get to the Er they are clueless the real parent/grandmother now has to answer the nurses questions and be the mom
its sad

[ploto]

If the girl does not want to terminate the pregnancy, no one should pressure her to do so. Not even her parents. Does not pro-choice mean choice? Meaning you have the right to choose EITHER way. She has the right to choose NOT to have an abortion, too.

[CosmicCowboy]

Where did you get from anything I said that the parents were trying to force her to get an abortion? I said they would PREFER that she consider terminating the pregnancy. If there has been any badgering at all it's been from the pro life/guilt faction.

[Soul_Patch]

No info on the dad in the situation?

I was having sex very early...at about 14. Luckily i guess the girl i was "getting off of the bus a stop early" to visit was on birth control...strange, but true...at least that is what she said.

I dont know what i would do in the parents shoes...I would definately get the fathers parents involved in this, or at least find out if the person who fathered this kid wasnt an adult himself and then you have even bigger problems...

id suggest as a first option adoption, as a second abortion...there is no way on earth a 14 year old havnig a baby will not ruin their lives. I can barely deal with the stress at 30, i couldnt imagine being that young.

[Kriz-Maxima]

Does the girl want to keep it?

[CosmicCowboy]

No info on the dad in the situation?

The father is her "boyfriend"...same age. He doesn't want anything to do with a baby.

His parents don't know yet but will be brought into the loop before this is resolved. Obviously if she decides to keep the baby that brings financial responsibility, etc. into the picture. Because of her age CPS will be all over this as soon as the baby is born.

[tlongII]

She should get an abortion. That is the best solution in this instance.

[CosmicCowboy]

Does the girl want to keep it?

As you can imagine she is still very scared/confused and doesn't know what she wants to do yet. She's only six weeks so there is still plenty of time for a decision. I'm keeping my fingers crossed she loses it naturally.

[Trainwreck2100]

T

His parents don't know but will be brought into the loop before this is resolved. .

That should be a fun conversation.

[BacktoBasics]

I love how we consider her fragile state in all of this. She wasn't so fragile as she shoved Billy's cock her little underaged pussy for her jollies. I'd bet it wasn't the first time she'd given it up either. Judging by the obvious lack of maturity and common sense I don't see how, law or not, she should be left to decide the fate of another.

She obviously isn't capable of exercising even a shred of common sense and decency. Then we turn around and act as if its just PC enough to let her put the fate of an unborn child in her own dirty hands and she'll miracuously make a sound decision based on intellegent thought and common sense.

The thought process of some of you people is down right sickening and absurd. "Her body, her choice" is fine and I'm not disagreeing with that but stop living in a fucking black and white world and start making decision based on each new day and each new hurdle to climb. This is all that is wrong with what we allow in our society. I'm sure the parents know what should be done and because of their warped little minds their unsure of what to do and who's choice it is. What a fucking disaster. I feel sorry for what may otherwise be solid parenting....I hope they don't abandon that.

I knew a girl that got knocked up at 15 and her parents took her right to the clinic to sort it out. She was horrified and upset as to why they wouldn't let her decide what to do. Over 10 years later and she still thanks her parents for guiding her in the right direction from making a huge mistake and potentially many more on just emotion. She finished college and is current working for some pretty decent pay and now because of that she can actually settle down and raise a family with some comfort and control. Imagine that.

[ploto]

I knew a girl that got knocked up at 15 and her parents took her right to the clinic to sort it out. She was horrified and upset as to why they wouldn't let her decide what to do. Over 10 years later and she still thanks her parents for guiding her in the right direction from making a huge mistake and potentially many more on just emotion. She finished college and is current working for some pretty decent pay and now because of that she can actually settle down and raise a family with some comfort and control. Imagine that.
She could have had all those same opportunities by giving the baby up for adoption.

[BacktoBasics]

She could have had all those same opportunities by giving the baby up for adoption.I agree. I'm for that but at the same time you run the risk of 9 months being preggo and the attachment and mental strain from that, you're likely to do more harm than good. I put nipping it in the bud on top of my list followed by adoption as an alternative.

To simply let someone with a track record of stupidity make decisions like this has got to be the most fucked up thing I've ever heard. What message are you sending this kid if there is all the freedom to do as you please because everyone around you will pick up the pieces. How irresponsible of a parent are you to let your child know that no matter how fucked up their decisions were they'll continue to allow them to make even worse decisions that not only affect her but everyone around them. When is it time to grow up and realize you're the adult and your child has failed you in one of the biggest ways ever. Fixing the situation isn't to continue to allow even more fucked up judgements to be made....for shit sake stop the madness while you can.

This is prime example of why young adults feel entitled to so much for so little. They've hardly ever had to be accountable for their actions and someone else always fixes it for them....and its always someone elses fault.

[desflood]

Adoption is a wonderful thing.

As far as the older sister and her husband - frankly, it's none of their damn business. They have their own family to attend to. This is a decision that needs to be kept between the little girl and her parents.

[DarkReign]

She could have had all those same opportunities by giving the baby up for adoption.

Fucking bingo.

For the record, Im pro choice. But there are literally thousands of healthy, married couples in this country alone who cannot conceive.

Im also in agreement with B2B. This isnt this little girls decision. She obviously hasnt been able to make a decent decision in her life yet, now as a parent youre going to let her decide the most crucial, life changing event in her life on pure adolescent emotion?!

Whatever. Not my problem. I know exactly and precisely what I would do as a parent in this situation.

Obviously, the state laws may not allow me that luxury, but you get the point.

Scenario A) I demand an abortion. She complys.
Scenario B) I demand an abortion. She refuses. I demand adoption. She complys.
Scenario C) I demand abortion. She refuses. I demand adoption. She refuses.

Again, Im not as big on abortion as you may think. I know I would lean more toward adoption. The baby lives, gets raised in a wonderful home, a young couple with conception issues is given the greatest gift the world over....shit, everyone wins.

But its all circumstance. Bottom line: It is not the child's decision, in my family's eyes. The law may/may not say otherwise. She obviously cannot make a sound decision for herself as it is. A 15 year old girl having sex isnt my problem, it really isnt. Its a 15 year old girl having sex without precaution. She obviously isnt using protection or birth control.

Which makes my head spin when you think about all the bad things that can happen...best case: curable STD, worst case: AIDs. Pregnancy is somewhere in the middle. All bad...all easy to prevent.

[baseline bum]

Man, I wonder if that means that they were adamently pro life until this happend and now all of a sudden they're KINDA pro choice. I hope not because I really really really really dislike those kind of people.

Either way, wtf are 14 year olds doing havin sex? The kid is going be messed up either way this goes.

You weren't trying to get laid at 14?

[jcrod]

Adoption is a wonderful thing.

As far as the older sister and her husband - frankly, it's none of their damn business. They have their own family to attend to. This is a decision that needs to be kept between the little girl and her parents.


I disagree, its her sister. If it was my little sister I would be putting my two cents in. And if they're capable of raising the child, IMO thats better than adoption. The child would stay in the family and the mother would still be very close to her/him.

[baseline bum]

Seriously, her parents should have taught her to use condoms. Every parent should get off his/her fucking high horse and realize teenagers have biological urges to get laid that aren't going to be curbed by trying to guilt them out of it. Telling people not to have sex is like telling spiders not to spin webs.

On to the main topic, the parents should just be honest about the options their daughter has, and tell everyone else to STFU. I know it's hard to do this in an unbiased way, but they need to present facts to her. If it was my daughter, I'd probably want her to have the kid and give him up for adoption, but it's not my choice. About the only thing I'd be pressuring her to do is to think hard and come to a decision before it's too late and the decision is made for her by time.

[BacktoBasics]

I disagree, its her sister. If it was my little sister I would be putting my two cents in. And if they're capable of raising the child, IMO thats better than adoption. The child would stay in the family and the mother would still be very close to her/him.Yeah I love those families (insert appropriate nationality here) where your Aunt is really your mother and your sister is really your daughter and everyone just calls everyone YaYa.

[MannyIsGod]

You weren't trying to get laid at 14?Dude at 14 all I cared about was playing basketball. I couldn't give too shits about getting laid. I went to school, got home, went to the park, came home at dark, rinse and repeat.

[BacktoBasics]

Dude at 14 all I cared about was playing basketball. I couldn't give too shits about getting laid. I went to school, got home, went to the park, came home at dark, rinse and repeat.Late bloomer I guess.

[pickle girl]

She wasn't so fragile as she shoved Billy's cock her little underaged pussy for her jollies. I'd bet it wasn't the first time she'd given it up either.

You should write for a porn mag!

[easjer]

While I don't think this girl should have this child and attempt to raise it, you have no idea of the emotional scarring that can occur by being forced or coerced into having an abortion. That can be hugely traumatic to girl. Which is not to mention the potential problems with future fertility that both pregnancy and abortion carry - may not matter much at 14, but matters a lot at 34 if you can't get pregnant because of previous trauma.

I fully agree that she is not capable of making good decisions, which is why her parents (and possibly a family therapist) should sit down and explain all the options to her. She has to agree to the decision without coercion, or she'll never be able to accept it.

I think adoption is the best possible solution - but I'm very wary of it, because I just watched someone get yanked around on an adoption after years of infertility. It was their second failed adoption - the 16 year old mother simply could not bring herself to give up the baby (her mother had pressured her to give up the baby). Watching those poor people through all the drama of changed minds, waiting, and finally having a conversation with the mother where she agreed to the adoption, only to change her mind when they arrived to take the baby home . . . it's awful.

I'm sorry for your friends, CC. I hope that they are able to come together and help this girl reach a decision that they can all live with.

[1Parker1]

I'm trying to remember what I was doing at 14, I think I may have still been playing hopscotch at the local park :oops

They are growing up very fast these days. And personally, I don't think it's always the parent's fault in these situations. They may be blamed partially, but the biggest issue I have as the cause of teen pregnancy is what I refer to as "The American Culture" It seems over the years, having sex has become the norm in this country and less of a hush, hush taboo subject it was...at least compared to when I was young. Kid's friends affects their decisions more than anything in the world at that age. IF all her friends are doing it or close to doing it, no parent is going to be able to stop their kids. You can't have a lock on what your kid is doing 24/7 no matter how hard you try.

It seems the "values" of the American culture have been changing over the past decade. Just look at the "role models" young girls have these days; Lindsay Lohan, Brittany Spears (her sister...), etc. When we didn't have young celebrities like that around to watch.

[1Parker1]

PS As I just had wisdom teeth surgery, I was just thinking to myself, I don't know how the hell I am going to handle the pain of giving birth, whenever I get to that point in my life.

Can you imagine a 14 year old having to go through LABOR?! I mean, didn't she just start getting her period???

[CosmicCowboy]

There are councelors, therapists etc. in the loop. They will do everything they can do so she can make an informed decision. (as best as a 14 year old can)

And you guys making holier than thou value judgements on this little girl repulse me.

Yeah, I wish she wasn't in this situation but there but for the grace of god could be any of our sons/daughters. You guys that are so sure that YOU wouldn't let anything like this happen to YOUR daughter (assuming you ever lose your virginity and actually find a woman who would have your child) have a hell of a lot to learn about raising kids.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm trying to remember what I was doing at 14, I think I may have still been playing hopscotch at the local park :oops

They are growing up very fast these days. And personally, I don't think it's always the parent's fault in these situations. They may be blamed partially, but the biggest issue I have as the cause of teen pregnancy is what I refer to as "The American Culture" It seems over the years, having sex has become the norm in this country and less of a hush, hush taboo subject it was...at least compared to when I was young. Kid's friends affects their decisions more than anything in the world at that age. IF all her friends are doing it or close to doing it, no parent is going to be able to stop their kids. You can't have a lock on what your kid is doing 24/7 no matter how hard you try.

It seems the "values" of the American culture have been changing over the past decade. Just look at the "role models" young girls have these days; Lindsay Lohan, Brittany Spears (her sister...), etc. When we didn't have young celebrities like that around to watch.Openness of sexuality is not the cause of teen pregnancy. Not by a long shot. European cultures are FAR more open with sexuality than America is and they generally do not have the teen pregnancy problem America does. In fact there is evidence to support the opposite of what you claim.

Teens have always had sex. This is not something new. In the past thigns were different considering that marriages occured at a much younger average age and with each passing generation that has changed. For example my grand mother was already wed at the age this child has concieved this child.

I've never done any hard research into the numbers of teen pregnency rates but I don't blame this (and I really see no way you can) on openness of sexuality in our culture. To begin with, its really not a very open culture in regardes to sexuality (Hello, the nation went crazy over a fucking 40 year old nipple) so I don't see how that argument could ever carry any water.

[boutons_]

Age 17, has 7 kids

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=517523&in_page_id=1811

[MannyIsGod]

Also, while you can reference American culture in the blame game when speaking about the entire country, when discussing things on a personal basis you have to lay the responsibility at the feet of the parents and not American culture. It is a parents job to make sure their child has appropriate role models and not Britney Spears. Too often parents place the blame at the foot of celebrities and others as a cop out.

[MannyIsGod]

There are councelors, therapists etc. in the loop. They will do everything they can do so she can make an informed decision. (as best as a 14 year old can)

And you guys making holier than thou value judgements on this little girl repulse me.

Yeah, I wish she wasn't in this situation but there but for the grace of god could be any of our sons/daughters. You guys that are so sure that YOU wouldn't let anything like this happen to YOUR daughter (assuming you ever lose your virginity and actually find a woman who would have your child) have a hell of a lot to learn about raising kids.I think any one with common sense realizes 14 year olds generally don't make the wisest of decisions at times. It just sucks when those bad decisions have far reaching consequences.

It would be wonderful if growing up could be done with no chance of getting hurt.

[CosmicCowboy]

The hardest part of raising our kids was keeping their mother from killing them before they grew up and got out of high school.

[MannyIsGod]

The hardest part of raising our kids was keeping their mother from killing them before they grew up and got out of high school.:lol

[ploto]

Yeah, I wish she wasn't in this situation but there but for the grace of god could be any of our sons/daughters. You guys that are so sure that YOU wouldn't let anything like this happen to YOUR daughter (assuming you ever lose your virginity and actually find a woman who would have your child) have a hell of a lot to learn about raising kids.
I agree. I am always very cautious about what I say to and in front of my child when stories like this arise-- because I went to school with a girl who got pregnant and was terrified to tell her parents because when it had happened to another girl, they said, "If you ever do that, we'll kill you."

[Slomo]

Openness of sexuality is not the cause of teen pregnancy. Not by a long shot. European cultures are FAR more open with sexuality than America is and they generally do not have the teen pregnancy problem America does. In fact there is evidence to support the opposite of what you claim...Holland is a very good example of this. Tey have one of the lowest rates worldwide and you'd be hard pressed to find a society that addresses sexuality in a more open or even honest fashion.

"The Dutch approach to preventing teenage pregnancy has often been seen as a model by other countries. The curriculum focuses on values, attitudes, communication and negotiation skills, as well as biological aspects of reproduction. The media has encouraged open dialogue and the health-care system guarantees confidentiality and a non-judgmental approach."
Valk, Guus. (2000). The Dutch Model (http://www.unesco.org/courier/2000_07/uk/apprend2.htm). The UNESCO Courier. Retrieved July 7, 2006.

It's an interesting article that emphasize the need for teaching decision making skills.

[jcrod]

There are councelors, therapists etc. in the loop. They will do everything they can do so she can make an informed decision. (as best as a 14 year old can)

And you guys making holier than thou value judgements on this little girl repulse me.

Yeah, I wish she wasn't in this situation but there but for the grace of god could be any of our sons/daughters. You guys that are so sure that YOU wouldn't let anything like this happen to YOUR daughter (assuming you ever lose your virginity and actually find a woman who would have your child) have a hell of a lot to learn about raising kids.

I can't stand these people either. You can only hope they make the right choice. Arm chair parents are the worst.

[dallaskd]

That's why you go anal until your 18.

[ChuckD]

Everything is an option. I'm just saying that this is an emotionally fragile CHILD that could be entering a predominantly white middle class high school next fall 7 months pregnant. I may be old, but I can still remember how vicious high school kids can be.
Keep her home until she has the baby. Tell the school she had MONO.

[ChuckD]

Where did you get from anything I said that the parents were trying to force her to get an abortion? I said they would PREFER that she consider terminating the pregnancy. If there has been any badgering at all it's been from the pro life/guilt faction.
ploto has like 3rd grade reading comprehension.

[Brews Bowen]

It's not surprising considering that on the one hand we have a culture which promotes doing whatever you feel like without regard for responsibility, yet is quite judgmental, and a puritanical legal system undergirding it all.

Teenage sex is glorified in this country while at the same time the predictable results are condemned. Of course, if it's your son...way to nail that tail.

[baseline bum]

Also, while you can reference American culture in the blame game when speaking about the entire country, when discussing things on a personal basis you have to lay the responsibility at the feet of the parents and not American culture. It is a parents job to make sure their child has appropriate role models and not Britney Spears. Too often parents place the blame at the foot of celebrities and others as a cop out.

But it's so much easier to put the blame on Hollywood, Larry Flynt, the degenerating of society, and such when it seems the parents' attitudes toward sex are the major problem. When you're 14, you don't know shit about sex if your parents haven't taught you anything. Why? Because your friends don't know shit, because their parents are unwilling to teach them. You don't learn anything in school because of this abstinence garbage they push.

I find it funny that high-schoolers aren't taught that taking it in the ass is by far the easiest way to get HIV from sex. Fucking Puritan culture won't allow the schools to teach knowledge as important as this because they want to pretend gays don't exist, that women don't get double-teamed, and so on.

Laugh at dallaskd's post, but I knew a few girls who only gave up the asshole in HS for fear of pregnancy and/or losing their "virginity" :lol

Of course they had no idea how much more dangerous that was for them than any other kind of sexual act, since it's all the same to the abstinence programs.

[ALVAREZ6]

that sucks.... if my girlfriend got pregnant I'd flip.

I'm pro-choice but she and her mom and my mom are all both pro-life...


:madrun

[Jekka]

I won't say that a termination is the best thing for this girl because I don't know her - in the long run it might be more practical, but that depends on a lot of variables. For one, if she's had time to find out, stall before telling the parents most likely, and then have a big family feud, she might be far enough along to make an abortion far more traumatizing, both physically and emotionally.

I was adopted after being born to a teenage mother, and I am thankful everyday that she gave me up to someone who was more prepared and eager to handle raising a child. Adoption works. Life was insane enough being raised by adults, I can't imagine growing up while my parent(s) were trying to do the same.

[spursfan09]

Somebody in my family got pregnant at the age of 13. My family still loves them and the baby. It's all about how you handle it.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

This is why we shouldn't teach sex in school. Once you start teaching sex education and showing these kids how to use condoms and dildos you get a bunch of know it all horn dogs that don't realize you can't get preggo the first time. I blame the school system. Definately not the girl or the parents.

You are joking, right?

Proper sexual education means making it quite clear what the possible consequences of sex are (ie. pregnancy, STDs), and how to avoid those consequences by either not having sex or using condoms properly.

Kids are kids - they are going to do these things whether you want them to or not. If you choose not to educate them and leave them in the dark about the meaning and consequences of sex, without any education, then they have no chance - they won't use condoms and you'll get more undesirable outcomes.

I hope that you weren't serious about a head-in-the-sand approach, but your sarcasm wasn't thick enough for me to tell one way or the other.

Edit - having now read the whole thread I know you were kidding. Apologies. Thicker sarcasm next time please! :lol

[marini martini]

You are joking, right?

Proper sexual education means making it quite clear what the possible consequences of sex are (ie. pregnancy, STDs), and how to avoid those consequences by either not having sex or using condoms properly.

Kids are kids - they are going to do these things whether you want them to or not. If you choose not to educate them and leave them in the dark about the meaning and consequences of sex, without any education, then they have no chance - they won't use condoms and you'll get more undesirable outcomes.

I hope that you weren't serious about a head-in-the-sand approach, but your sarcasm wasn't thick enough for me to tell one way or the other.

He's kidding!

I think when you tell your daughter, "no questions asked", if they are getting ready to have sex, make sure you get them on birth control. Automatic vasectomy for boys :toast

P.S. Vasectomy reversal is available in Houston for his wedding present :lmao

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

It's not surprising considering that on the one hand we have a culture which promotes doing whatever you feel like without regard for responsibility, yet is quite judgmental, and a puritanical legal system undergirding it all.

Teenage sex is glorified in this country while at the same time the predictable results are condemned. Of course, if it's your son...way to nail that tail.

SPOT ON!

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

He's kidding!

I think when you tell your daughter, "no questions asked", if they are getting ready to have sex, make sure you get them on birth control. Automatic vasectomy for boys :toast

P.S. Vasectomy reversal is available in Houston for his wedding present :lmao

Yeah, I forgot it was a 4-page thread, and by the time I got to the end of it I worked that out. ;)

Fucking abstinence programs, what horseshit. GW and his hard-right cronies screwed the US and the developing world with that crap - they canceled all US funds to sexual education that featured condom use, and surprise, surprise, STD and birth rates in the third world went through the roof. Well done! :rolleyes

BTW, do you guys have the "morning after pill"? You can take it up to 48 hours after sex and it brings on a period. It's very useful for broken condoms and the like, although there is some controversy about it since pro-lifers say it's a "no-consequences abortion". The fact that you have to get it from a doctor makes of mockery of that, but that's another debate for another time. Might've helped these kids to know about it though... (were they using condoms and it broke, or was it just a case of ignorance?)

PS Manny, at 14 I was just like you - playing cricket and doing homework was all I did after school. I had no interest in girls until turning 16, and then they weren't interested in me (I was too much of a geek), so my parents never had to worry about me getting a girl pregnant...

[Trainwreck2100]

You don't need a doctor for the morning after pill

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You don't need a doctor for the morning after pill

Really, you can buy it over the counter? Here you have to get it from a doctor.

I realise that you could get around that by working out that it's just a triple dose of the contraceptive pill, but the vast majority of people wouldn't go down that path - they'd go to the doc/emergency and get one.

Edit: just checked that, and you DON'T need a prescription any more, you can simply buy it from the chemist. Interesting. You used to need to see a doctor.

[sabar]

Very very interesting. I was never aware that the British word for pharmacist was chemist.

[Fillmoe]

im the father

[easjer]

SFIE and I talked about this last night.

Bear with me, I'm going to be circular for a moment.

I refuse to take hormonal birth control because of issues my mother had with it that I could potentially have (and they were of the type that I am uninterested in trying to figure them out). So we have always practiced the Fertility Awareness Method of birth control. Also known as NFP (Natural Family Planning) - but it is NOT the Rhythm Method. Anyway, the leading book on this is a book called Taking Charge of Your Fertility.

So. We are also planning to start a family soon - the program is easily switched from pregnancy prevention to pregnancy acheivement - you just change when you have sex or cease using barriers. Ok. So because we are planning to start a family soon I hang out a lot on baby boards. The book I mentioned earlier is frequently cited over and over as the TTC Bible.

Every.Single.Day. women read that book and come back shocked, amazed, and even a little angry over how much they didn't know about their bodies work. And these are generally smart, well educated women. They just don't know how things really work (I mean there is a general idea, but not specifics).

So - we will make sure our children read the book (actually they have recently come out with a version for teenage girls) and understand biology and know to use protection. We will do the best we can to be open about sex and the potential results.

It won't necessarily prevent pregnancy, but at least we can try to make sure our kids are educated about their options and responsibilities and are able to come to us if something does happen.

I'm so sorry about your friends, CC. I'm thinking of them.

[travis2]

Yeah, I forgot it was a 4-page thread, and by the time I got to the end of it I worked that out. ;)

Fucking abstinence programs, what horseshit. GW and his hard-right cronies screwed the US and the developing world with that crap - they canceled all US funds to sexual education that featured condom use, and surprise, surprise, STD and birth rates in the third world went through the roof. Well done! :rolleyes

BTW, do you guys have the "morning after pill"? You can take it up to 48 hours after sex and it brings on a period. It's very useful for broken condoms and the like, although there is some controversy about it since pro-lifers say it's a "no-consequences abortion". The fact that you have to get it from a doctor makes of mockery of that, but that's another debate for another time. Might've helped these kids to know about it though... (were they using condoms and it broke, or was it just a case of ignorance?)

PS Manny, at 14 I was just like you - playing cricket and doing homework was all I did after school. I had no interest in girls until turning 16, and then they weren't interested in me (I was too much of a geek), so my parents never had to worry about me getting a girl pregnant...

Except there is only ONE SURE WAY not to get a girl pregnant. And that is to ABSTAIN. It works 100% of the time!

If you have sex, GUESS WHAT, FUCKWIT? YOU AREN'T ABSTAINING!!

And yes, I HAVE teenaged daughters. Whom I'm actually SPENDING THE TIME TO RAISE. You know, doing my duties as a father?

Glad you aren't teaching anything to MY girls.

[J.T.]

14 is to young for sex.

15 imo. Nice odd number.

[mrsmaalox]

Definitely a consideration:


http://home.teleport.com/~gumball/chastity.jpg

Just a little comic relief; this thread is just way too scary!!!

[travis2]

don't think I never considered that...:lol

[BacktoBasics]

I'm in no way saying that my parenting is greater than the next guy/gal because this kind of shit can happen with good and bad parents alike. I was raised well and I can't even begin to count the times I stole my parents car when I was 14/15 years old to go chase some tail. Anything can happen.

What I am being critical of is the over cautious steps and inclusion you people go through to make what is a pretty obvious decision. I love how you guys can debate abortion and her making the decision and whether or not there should be an adoption and so forth. The path of least resistance and the path with the highest probability of a successful outcome longterm is clearly to terminate the pregnancy. She wasn't supposed to be pregnant in the first place but yet when faced with a tough call we abandon the core priciple of not getting pregnant in the first place in lieu of a debate on what to do next.

Somewhere along the lines society has blurred the lines of better judgement for long drawn out debates on right and wrong. This is exactly why there are some many laws and provision that protect the weak and feable. Instead of making a clean strong decision and taking care of the situation you people decide to skew the lines of clear cut reason for alternative methods of dealing with a problem. Its no wonder how incapable people are these days when it comes to the most basic stuff.

Lets go do something today hun. Call the preacher, sheriff, doctor, counselor and teh web to help us decide the next course of action. Its seems these days everything in life has to be some great moral debate, nothing is decisive and we'll argue anything to the core of its death. Its sad we live in a world where making good decisions is abonadoned because we're incapable of comprehending and executing in the simplists of ways.

[bdictjames]

This is what America brought to the world. The media is killing our teenagers.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

The path of least resistance and the path with the highest probability of a successful outcome longterm is clearly to terminate the pregnancy. wow. that's some statement.

[travis2]

As is this one...



Instead of making a clean strong decision and taking care of the situation you people decide to skew the lines of clear cut reason for alternative methods of dealing with a problem.


It's a baby...not a "problem"...

[Spuradicator]

The girls gotta deal with the consequences. Period.

[BacktoBasics]

As is this one...





It's a baby...not a "problem"...Thats why the put a time limit as to when you can terminate. According to some its not a baby. I'm not saying I'm of that belief but there is an opportunity here to right the ship legally without longterm ramifications.

[BacktoBasics]

The girls gotta deal with the consequences. Period.The girl or everyone else at her mercy?

[ploto]

Thats why the put a time limit as to when you can terminate. According to some its not a baby. I'm not saying I'm of that belief but there is an opportunity here to right the ship legally without longterm ramifications.
Abortions can have long term ramifications- both physically and psychologically.

This is an issue about which there will never be agreement because the basic premise is not the same depending upon your views. If you believe it is a baby, I do not see how you could ever consider abortion. I could never tell my child to kill my grandchild, no matter how old they were. That is my belief and I know that everyone else does not believe it.

[BacktoBasics]

Abortions can have long term ramifications- both physically and psychologically.

This is an issue about which there will never be agreement because the basic premise is not the same depending upon your views. If you believe it is a baby, I do not see how you could ever consider abortion. I could never tell my child to kill my grandchild, no matter how old they were. That is my belief and I know that everyone else does not believe it.The long term ramifications in comparision to a lifetime of obligation for not just her but everyone else that has to step in and help are minimal to potentially none. I'm bench testing the option to itself not the off chance that something could go wrong and likely won't. It'll be what they make of it to an extent but I'm simply pointing out the fact that in a perfect world this wouldn't have happened and because of her age and the situation and everyone that it affects there is no reason not to envoke some common sense and put it back the way it was before this happened. This situation is resolved and the chances of long term problems are pretty small in comparison to what it would take to have this child.

I'm not going to debate on whether its a baby or not because according the law they can terminate without it being considered murder.

I don't see any reason to make another bad decision on top of an already bad situation when you don't have to.

[SpursWoman]

I keep thinking how I won't let my kids have a dog right now because I don't want the financial and all the other responsibilities that come with it, because since they aren't old enough to have a job or a decent attention span, of course it will fall on me.

I just can't imagine replacing the "dog" in that conversation to "baby". I can't even wrap my mind around that. :fro

[LakerMagic]

My sister had an abortion about 12 years ago. It was the right thing for her to do at the time. About 8 years ago she got married. Now she is having marital problems because she can't get pregnant. I feel really bad for her, but it is what it is I guess.

Basically what Im saying is problems now, or problems later. I know my sis wishes she had kept the child now. Its just a really tough spot to be in on a person by person case.

[Spuradicator]

I wish I could "throw away" any of my problems just like that. That would be awesome.

I just disagree with abortion. Thats just me.

[easjer]

I'm not saying abortion wouldn't be the best choice here - but I am saying that no one can make that decision for her or force that decision on her. She has to agree to it/with it.

I agree she isn't capable of making a decision on her own - but she has to make the choice, because of what abortion is and how it can affect her. There are some serious psychological issues that can go along with abortion when an older, educated woman makes that decision for herself - it can be much much worse for a teenager, especially if she's not given the choice.

I don't agree it would be in anyone's best interest for her to try and raise the child.

It's a hard, painful decision whatever she does - so now it's time for her to grow up and start thinking about the realities of each possible outcome. That is worth the debate. Her life is changed forever - whatever happens. There is some debate that needs to take place to make sure her life (and the lives of her family) are not destroyed by this.

CC said she was only about 6 weeks along - so there is still plenty of time for a legal and generally safe abortion, and plenty of time to think everything through and debate it all.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Except there is only ONE SURE WAY not to get a girl pregnant. And that is to ABSTAIN. It works 100% of the time!

If you have sex, GUESS WHAT, FUCKWIT? YOU AREN'T ABSTAINING!!

And yes, I HAVE teenaged daughters. Whom I'm actually SPENDING THE TIME TO RAISE. You know, doing my duties as a father?

Glad you aren't teaching anything to MY girls.

:rolleyes

Kids will be kids, and people in developing countries the same. People will have sex whether you want them to or not. Given that, would you rather they know what it is, what it means, what the consequences are, and how to PREVENT them (ie. condom use), or would you rather bury your head in the sand and pretend that telling people not to do something they want to do will stop them from doing it? Prohibition doesn't work and never has - human nature is a far stronger force.

I didn't say that abstinence is a bad thing - of course it's not. But running sex education programs based on teaching abstinence alone is naive and damaging, because guess what, some people won't abstain. If you haven't taught them what sex means or how to avoid prenancy/STDs, you then get bad outcomes because they have unprotected sex.

Basing an entire sex education strategy around abstinence alone is farcical.

[DarkReign]

I can't stand these people either. You can only hope they make the right choice. Arm chair parents are the worst.

What did you/he expect posting this issue on an internet forum?

Judgement as far, as wide and high as you can see...thats what you should expect.

[Kyle Smith]

:/

[travis2]

Unfortunately, yes, you're going to see a lot of that here. That's what I meant when I said "you can tell who the parents are"...we're more scared to death than judgemental. "There but for the grace of God go I" and all that.

And in case you have misinterpreted any of my posts in this thread...I have thrown no mud at the parents.

[BacktoBasics]

Wait wait wait, they shouldn't teach sex ed in school?

I didn't read the whole 5 pages to see if anyone else touched upon this, but are you serious?

I agree that the education system is lacking, but not teaching anything at all is just plain stupid. You're just plain stupid.




Stupid.I'm stupid??? Well I can clearly see the system didn't fail you. Your cunning wit and attention to detail are spot on. I would never in a million years consider locking horns with a man of you superior intelect. Way to fucking read between the lines.

[BacktoBasics]

Excellent back peddle Kyle Smith

[desflood]

That's what I meant when I said "you can tell who the parents are"...we're more scared to death than judgemental. "There but for the grace of God go I" and all that.
It IS frightening. My kids are all under 8 - next year we're going to sit the older two down for "the talk" ( a much more thorough one than I had with my parents) and they're all going on birth control before they hit twelve :lol

Seriously, all I ever heard from my parents was, "Sex before marriage is evil," which is odd since the old folks are not in the least bit religious. Despite what they said... well, I'm damned lucky I didn't get into this girl's same situation. The thought of having teenagers scares the hell out of me.

[travis2]

19 and 17 here...I'm deep in the throes of the fear...:bang

:lol

[johngateswhiteley]

Butt. Sechs.

:tu


anyway, sounds like she should have an abortion...imo. btw, i am a libertarian :)