True NBA rankings - not 4 letter network or biased media

[Rummpd]

1. Pistons have to give them their due after yesterday
2. Spurs - still the best team in league by more than most give them credit for, and going to get much stronger and tougher to guard and even better defensively with a healthy Parker and the addition of K. Thomas.
3. Lakers - still over-hyped and have been beating mainly very weak teams and gave up way over a 100 to Suns - which no other good team did in last three games. Neither the soft Gasol or the often out of position Bynum can stop the top teams interior scorers when it counts. A great team like the Spurs with 4 players capable of at least slowing down Kobe (Bowen, Udoka top two + Manu and Finley) can handle the LAL with impunity (at least this year) and don't forget Spurs add Tiago Splitter next year (better defensive big than Gasol).
4. Celtics - based on season record only but will probably be falling fast.
5. Rockets - 10 straight on road is impressive and 12 overall gets them into the realm as probably the Spurs biggest true threat in W.
6. Jazz probably better than both 4 and 5 but time will tell.
7. Hornets - still a fine team
8. Cavs - watch out and per my early season prediction will be in the finals again.
9. Mavs - Mr. assist queen won't be able to do this against good teams and he and his team will be abused offensively both by quick teams and down low with the loss of Diop. Stupid trade long term and does not bide well for playoffs vs. elite guards.
10. Suns and setting - could be starting a laughable free fall.

[GrandeDavid]

1. Pistons have to give them their due after yesterday

AGREED.

2. Spurs - still the best team in league by more than most give them credit for, and going to get much stronger and tougher to guard and even better defensively with a healthy Parker and the addition of K. Thomas.

I´M A BELIEVER.

3. Lakers - still over-hyped and have been beating mainly very weak teams and gave up way over a 100 to Suns - which no other good team did in last three games. Neither the soft Gasol or the often out of position Bynum can stop the top teams interior scorers when it counts. A great team like the Spurs with 4 players capable of at least slowing down Kobe (Bowen, Udoka top two + Manu and Finley) can handle the LAL with impunity (at least this year) and don't forget Spurs add Tiago Splitter next year (better defensive big than Gasol).

I THINK THE LAKERS ARE DOING A GREAT JOB, ESPECIALLY WITHOUT BYNUM AND KOBE WITH THAT FINGER PROBLEM. I WOULD FAVOR THE SPURS IN A SERIES AT THIS POINT OVER THE LAKERS, BUT I WOULD NOT SAY WITH IMPUNITY. SPLITTER IS UNPROVEN IN THE NBA, I WOULDN´T MAKE ANY COMPARISONS TO GASOL JUST YET. GASOL IS LOOKING AWFULLY GOOD NOW THAT HE´S ON A TEAM WHERE HE´S NOT THE TOP FOCAL POINT.


4. Celtics - based on season record only but will probably be falling fast.

I HOPE SO! MY HAT´S TIPPED TO THEM SO FAR, BUT I DO NOTICE THEY´VE LOST A FEW GAMES RECENTLY. I WOULD PICK DETROIT OVER BEANTOWN IN A PLAYOFF SERIES, THOUGH.

5. Rockets - 10 straight on road is impressive and 12 overall gets them into the realm as probably the Spurs biggest true threat in W.

YEAH, COULD BE. BUT I DO LIKE THE FACT THAT KURT THOMAS IS ANOTHER BODY TO THROW AT YAO. HOPEFULLY BRUCE HAS ENOUGH IN THE GAS TANK TO HAMPER KOBE IN A SERIES.

6. Jazz probably better than both 4 and 5 but time will tell.

YES.

7. Hornets - still a fine team

YES.

8. Cavs - watch out and per my early season prediction will be in the finals again.

I GO WITH DETROIT.

9. Mavs - Mr. assist queen won't be able to do this against good teams and he and his team will be abused offensively both by quick teams and down low with the loss of Diop. Stupid trade long term and does not bide well for playoffs vs. elite guards.

I´M ALSO NOT SOLD ON THIS TRADE JUST YET. BUT AS YOU SAID ABOUT THE JAZZ, TIME WILL TELL.

10. Suns and setting - could be starting a laughable free fall.

NAH. I THINK THEY´LL PULL IT TOGETHER COME PLAYOFF TIME.

[Pistons < Spurs]

3. Lakers - still over-hyped and have been beating mainly very weak teams and gave up way over a 100 to Suns - which no other good team did in last three games. Neither the soft Gasol or the often out of position Bynum can stop the top teams interior scorers when it counts. A great team like the Spurs with 4 players capable of at least slowing down Kobe (Bowen, Udoka top two + Manu and Finley) can handle the LAL with impunity (at least this year) and don't forget Spurs add Tiago Splitter next year (better defensive big than Gasol).

Suck it up and admit that the Lakers are for real.

Based on Stregnth of Schedule, they've had the 5th hardest schedule up to this point. The Spurs are sitting at 23.

And let's not go discrediting them because they've beaten some weaker opponents as of late (Spurs beat the Knicks, Pacers, Wizards, Bobcats and TWolves during their current streak). Take a closer look, and you'll see 11 of 12 games were on the road. 4 B2B's, and 3 stints where they played 4 games in 6 nights. Regardless of the opponents, that's still a difficult schedule to play let alone to go 11-1 in.

That's not to say that the Spurs can't beat them, or are not the better team. But to act like they're simply over hyped and not legit is just damn silly. Forget for a moment that you hate the Lakers, and give respect where it's due.

[GrandeDavid]

Yeah, the Lakers look mighty tough thus far. I can´t wait for the Spurs and Lakers to square off again this season. Detroit is looking like an ill hammer dropping across the league.

[Princess Pimp]

1. Pistons have to give them their due after yesterday
2. Spurs - still the best team in league by more than most give them credit for, and going to get much stronger and tougher to guard and even better defensively with a healthy Parker and the addition of K. Thomas.
3. Lakers - still over-hyped and have been beating mainly very weak teams and gave up way over a 100 to Suns - which no other good team did in last three games. Neither the soft Gasol or the often out of position Bynum can stop the top teams interior scorers when it counts. A great team like the Spurs with 4 players capable of at least slowing down Kobe (Bowen, Udoka top two + Manu and Finley) can handle the LAL with impunity (at least this year) and don't forget Spurs add Tiago Splitter next year (better defensive big than Gasol).
4. Celtics - based on season record only but will probably be falling fast.
5. Rockets - 10 straight on road is impressive and 12 overall gets them into the realm as probably the Spurs biggest true threat in W.
6. Jazz probably better than both 4 and 5 but time will tell.
7. Hornets - still a fine team
8. Cavs - watch out and per my early season prediction will be in the finals again.
9. Mavs - Mr. assist queen won't be able to do this against good teams and he and his team will be abused offensively both by quick teams and down low with the loss of Diop. Stupid trade long term and does not bide well for playoffs vs. elite guards.
10. Suns and setting - could be starting a laughable free fall.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

WHAT A DUMBASS!

The Lakers are still better than your old fucks.

[td4mvp21]

Lakers are a little over-hyped (I think the media is just way too crazy about them at this point), but I think they are for real. They are a top 4 team in the Western conference, and they've proven they can beat the Suns (a formidable Western conference power). Based on the way they've been playing, I would put them ahead of the Spurs at this point in the season, although the Spurs have been playing good as of late.

I don't think the Suns and Mavs are as far down as you put them. I don't think Phoenix is "done" and "falling". I don't think they will be as good as they were, but that's just an opinion that has yet to be justified.

[ThomasGranger]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

WHAT A DUMBASS!

The Lakers are still better than your old fucks.

How's that Shaq thing working out?

[GrandeDavid]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

WHAT A DUMBASS!

The Lakers are still better than your old fucks.

Nice mouth you´ve got. Nice education level. Try therapy, travel, try reading more. Anything.

[remingtonbo2001]

The Pistons are good, however I think the top seed is a little high. Phoenix isn't a good measuring stick right now.

The Spurs at number 2 is about right (I might put them at the 3 seed). They still have room to grow.

Really other than those 2 teams, it basically comes down to which team matches up better against their oppenent.

[JamStone]

Lakers are the best team in the league right now. Whether they can maintain that especially in playoff atmospheres remains to be seen.

[Medvedenko]

Suck it up and admit that the Lakers are for real.

Based on Stregnth of Schedule, they've had the 5th hardest schedule up to this point. The Spurs are sitting at 23.

And let's not go discrediting them because they've beaten some weaker opponents as of late (Spurs beat the Knicks, Pacers, Wizards, Bobcats and TWolves during their current streak). Take a closer look, and you'll see 11 of 12 games were on the road. 4 B2B's, and 3 stints where they played 4 games in 6 nights. Regardless of the opponents, that's still a difficult schedule to play let alone to go 11-1 in.

That's not to say that the Spurs can't beat them, or are not the better team. But to act like they're simply over hyped and not legit is just damn silly. Forget for a moment that you hate the Lakers, and give respect where it's due.


I couldn't have said it better myself. Barring injuries, we'll be tough. I still put the Spurs at #1 given that TP is back and Manu is playing all NBA first team ball right now. It's going to get ugly in the playoffs. I love it. I'm glad my boys are back and starting to believe that they could win. Going 11-1 on the road is pretty dope considering we have injuries.

[hater]

RIGHT NOW lakers are #1. but that does not mean anything. last year mavs + suns were #1 and #2 and look what happened.

truth is no fan of any team in the West should be talking shit about their team until playoffs are done. it's too close to call

[Princess Pimp]

Spurs are out and done in the first round...

[Medvedenko]

RIGHT NOW lakers are #1. but that does not mean anything. last year mavs + suns were #1 and #2 and look what happened.

truth is no fan of any team in the West should be talking shit about their team until playoffs are done. it's too close to call


Exactly...it's anyones game and I believe it will come down to who's the most healthy in the West.

Rockets: Tback
Spurs: Tpark and others
Lakers: Bynum, Vlad Rad, Ariza, Mihm :(
Suns: Shaq :)

[Medvedenko]

Spurs are out and done in the first round...

Hey PP, keep it in the desert buddy......and as antogonizing as your post may be....it's still weaksauce.

[ricketts]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

WHAT A DUMBASS!

The Lakers are still better than your old fucks.


lets see, last time the spurs played the lakers we came from behind at the half and beat them by like 12.

last time the suns played the lakers they got blown out by 30 points in their own arena.

i know the lakers didnt have Gasoul then, but i thought you traded for shaQ so you could take care of him. looks like that went well.

[LA24]

Suck it up and admit that the Lakers are for real.

Based on Stregnth of Schedule, they've had the 5th hardest schedule up to this point. The Spurs are sitting at 23.
Forget for a moment that you hate the Lakers, and give respect where it's due.

:tu

[LA24]

Rockets: Tback
Spurs: Tpark and others
Lakers: Bynum, Vlad Rad, Ariza, Mihm :(
Suns: Shaq :)

Mihm's horrendous. I'm actually glad he's not playing.

He's done.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'm excited to see the Spurs play the Lakers with Gasol. I'm still not sure how the two teams are going to matchup, especially in a 7-game series.

I think the Lakers leapfrogged both the Suns and Mavs with that move, but again, we haven't seen a fully integrated Shaq or Jason Kidd yet to really assess those moves either.

But Gasol just seemed to slip into the Laker lineup and start producing, and the Lakers got instantly better and didn't skip a beat. It's been pretty remarkable. I understand why Pop was p!ssed about that trade...probably for the same reason I was.

[smeagol]

Hey PP, keep it in the desert buddy......and as antogonizing as your post may be....it's still weaksauce.
:clap

[1Parker1]

Question; This isn't the NBA rankings from a biased media source, but coming from a biased Spurs fan makes it truer?

:)

[anakha]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

WHAT A DUMBASS!

The Lakers are still better than your old fucks.

Seems Louis has regressed back to his old style of trolling.

Hard to blame him, after getting reamed the past few threads: :lol

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2264740#post2264740

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2261490#post2261490

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2254651#post2254651

[remingtonbo2001]

I don't believe there is a team deserving of the #1 spot at this moment.
No team has created enough seperation to lay claim to the top spot.

[Xolotl]

I give respect to the Lakers they are playing great ball right now....I also like Utah right now I didn't think Korver would be that big of a deal going there but I was wrong but they've been playing good too....What I don't agree with are Laker fans like my brother that are just going on and on about Bynum coming back, the guy is decent but my bro is acting like hes the second coming of Jabbar...is it just me?? Am I missing something on this guy??

[itzsoweezee]

pistons are paper tigers

i hear the same shit about them every year

watch the cavs eliminate them from the playoffs, again

lakers are good, but the spurs beat them on the matchups. there's no way the lakers will beat the spurs with charmin-soft pau gasol as their number 2 guy.

[Allanon]

I give respect to the Lakers they are playing great ball right now....I also like Utah right now I didn't think Korver would be that big of a deal going there but I was wrong but they've been playing good too....What I don't agree with are Laker fans like my brother that are just going on and on about Bynum coming back, the guy is decent but my bro is acting like hes the second coming of Jabbar...is it just me?? Am I missing something on this guy??

Lakers (Pau, Odom), Spurs (Manu), Rockets (Yao, TMac) are just HOT, HOT right now, let's see who blinks first.

You have missed Bynum. I thought he was way overhyped but watching his 10 games before injury, he is amazingly long and agile. You send the ball at him anywhere close and he grabs it. He sucks up rebounds. Plus he has amazingly good footwork for a 20 year old, a soft shooting touch and good FT shooter. He's as close to a young David Robinson that I've seen yet.

Even before the Pau trade for the injured Bynum, people outside of Laker Homers were starting to say the Lakers could contend with just Bynum.

[oboymeetsogirl]

Lakers are better, and so are the Rockets and Jazz. I have a feeling the Mavs and Suns will slip. Why? All important team chemistry. It's not just defense that wins playoff games and ultimately championships, it's teamwork; and the Spurs (along with the Pistons -- let's give them their due) execute with more clock-like efficiency than any other contender.

The question is, will the addition of Gasol bolster the Lakers' efficiency? My thinking is, if Gasol could never do it for the Grizzlies, what makes you think he'll do it for the Lakers? In important games he always fades away. He'll get his points, but he doesn't drive his team to the level necessary to take it all the way.

Prediction: Lakers will dominate the league the rest of the regular season, but will be gone after the second round of the playoffs, much like the Nuggets' and Suns' annual disappearing act.

[GrandeDavid]

Spurs are out and done in the first round...

So who's gonna get Robert Horry's shoulder quake this year?

[Rummpd]

Suck it up and admit that the Lakers are for real.

Based on Stregnth of Schedule, they've had the 5th hardest schedule up to this point. The Spurs are sitting at 23.

And let's not go discrediting them because they've beaten some weaker opponents as of late (Spurs beat the Knicks, Pacers, Wizards, Bobcats and TWolves during their current streak). Take a closer look, and you'll see 11 of 12 games were on the road. 4 B2B's, and 3 stints where they played 4 games in 6 nights. Regardless of the opponents, that's still a difficult schedule to play let alone to go 11-1 in.

That's not to say that the Spurs can't beat them, or are not the better team. But to act like they're simply over hyped and not legit is just damn silly. Forget for a moment that you hate the Lakers, and give respect where it's due.


Lakers played 4 less WC teams so far than Spurs - so much for strength of schedule.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Wait ten games and we'll know a lot more as the new acquisitions settle into their teams.

The dark horse right now is Utah, although their D is suspect. Two things over there can still beat you though - if they hit lots of shots (which they regularly do); Deron Williams, clutch stud.

[oboymeetsogirl]

I have only this to say to Laker fans: gloat all you like about whatever regular season success your team has. Spurs fans see this every year: other teams (Mavs, Suns, etc.) having phenomenal years, but falling flat in the playoffs.

The playoffs are the only thing that matters. In the past, LA had the big Shaq-daddy to hang their consistency on; but he got old and was shipped off (despite being good enough for one more run to the finish). You still got Kobe, but what else? Pau Gasol? No one has ever heard that name in the same sentence as "big time" or "championship performer" before, and for good reason. That 7 footer has a way of shrinking when it comes to playing the big boys when it counts. Face it. Pau ain't no Shaq. If anything, it's Bynum who has the potential to count on, but he's still another a year or two away. Vets like Duncan, and even an ancient Horry, can still eat him up.

In any case, think about it: to win a playoff series you need to take four of seven games. The Nuggets, Mavs, and Suns all know how hard that is. Against an equally talented but far more experienced, championship caliber team at its peak like the Spurs? Fahgetaboutit.

[21_Blessings]

Spurs barely beat the Minnesota Timberwolves the other night and you're using the "Lakers let the second highest scoring team in the league score a bunch of points" despite the Lakers controlling the entire game on the road, as your argument for why they are over hyped.

San Antonion logic at its best.

[DazedAndConfused]

"True NBA Rankings - from a completely biased Spurs homer"

[barbacoataco]

IMO the top NBA teams right now (in no order) - Spurs, Lakers, Pistons--- right after that would be Mavs, Suns, Celtics. Houston lost Yao, so they're out. Other teams that could compete- Utah, Cleveland, and maybe New Orleans.

Lakers certainly look good in recent games. But is Gasol really tough enough to bang away with other teams big men in the playoffs? Also, they do not have a great point guard. The Spurs match up well with Lakers. Bowen, Udoka, Finley and Ginobili can all defend Kobe. Duncan dominates Gasol, and Oberto has had success defending Bynum.

One thing about the Lakers that you can't say about some teams, they do have a coach who can lead a team to a chmpionship. Not so sure about D'Antoni.

[DazedAndConfused]

IMO the top NBA teams right now (in no order) - Spurs, Lakers, Pistons--- right after that would be Mavs, Suns, Celtics. Houston lost Yao, so they're out. Other teams that could compete- Utah, Cleveland, and maybe New Orleans.

Lakers certainly look good in recent games. But is Gasol really tough enough to bang away with other teams big men in the playoffs? Also, they do not have a great point guard. The Spurs match up well with Lakers. Bowen, Udoka, Finley and Ginobili can all defend Kobe. Duncan dominates Gasol, and Oberto has had success defending Bynum.

One thing about the Lakers that you can't say about some teams, they do have a coach who can lead a team to a chmpionship. Not so sure about D'Antoni.

For the umpteenth time Gasol will not be guarding the opposing team's C when Bynum gets back. This is a stopgap solution because we really have no C depth right now with all our injuries. Mbenga is actually worse than Kwame.

Bynum is a very capable defensive anchor and you will all see that when he gets back now that you are paying more attention to the Lakers. Fisher may not be an All-Star PG but to be honest he is the perfect fit for this team. He brings toughness, veteran leadership, and most importantly championship experience to our relatively young team. And finally one guy you are all leaving out of this discussion is Trevor Ariza. A lot of you probably don't know who he is outside of his Grant Hill posterization, but he is perhaps the only solid perimeter defender we have outside of Kobe. He will be an invaluable tool in the playoffs when we need to shutdown the opposing team's perimeter players. He plays very similarly to Udoka, worse shot but more athleticism and a better finisher around the hoop.

That being said this is going to be one hell of a series if we meet up. I would be seriously disappointed if it didn't happen.

[Manu-of-steel]

While you are reading this, a news update has it that YAO MING is out for the rest of the season due to stress fracture. It will be very hard for the rockets to maintain this lofty standing in the power rankings. Very unfortunate news for the rockets.

[Que Gee]

1. Pistons have to give them their due after yesterday
2. Spurs - still the best team in league by more than most give them credit for, and going to get much stronger and tougher to guard and even better defensively with a healthy Parker and the addition of K. Thomas.
3. Lakers - still over-hyped and have been beating mainly very weak teams and gave up way over a 100 to Suns - which no other good team did in last three games. Neither the soft Gasol or the often out of position Bynum can stop the top teams interior scorers when it counts. A great team like the Spurs with 4 players capable of at least slowing down Kobe (Bowen, Udoka top two + Manu and Finley) can handle the LAL with impunity (at least this year) and don't forget Spurs add Tiago Splitter next year (better defensive big than Gasol).
4. Celtics - based on season record only but will probably be falling fast.
5. Rockets - 10 straight on road is impressive and 12 overall gets them into the realm as probably the Spurs biggest true threat in W.
6. Jazz probably better than both 4 and 5 but time will tell.
7. Hornets - still a fine team
8. Cavs - watch out and per my early season prediction will be in the finals again.
9. Mavs - Mr. assist queen won't be able to do this against good teams and he and his team will be abused offensively both by quick teams and down low with the loss of Diop. Stupid trade long term and does not bide well for playoffs vs. elite guards.
10. Suns and setting - could be starting a laughable free fall.

Funny, who cares about Splitter and the Spurs next year...? If your talking about this year, how are the Lakers over hyped. Go check out the Spurs record against above .500 teams. It ain't that great. They are playing well now, but it seems more and more as Manu goes they go.

[Allanon]

The main stat that makes me wonder about the Spurs is their road record. Normally, a veteran team finds a way to win on the road but for some reason not this year. They have a phenomenal home record but their road record is the worst of the contenders.

There's still 25+ games left but I think if the Spurs want to repeat, they're going to have to find that extra fire when playing on the road. The remaining road schedule is 90% against playoff teams and HCA seems to be more important than ever.

[ATXSPUR]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

WHAT A DUMBASS!

The Lakers are still better than your old fucks.

Having fun looking after grandpa o'neal?

[Findog]

Lakers are better, and so are the Rockets and Jazz. I have a feeling the Mavs and Suns will slip. Why? All important team chemistry.

There's nothing wrong with our chemistry now. If we fall short, it will be for X's and O's reasons, not intangibles.

[mathbzh]

Pau Gasol? No one has ever heard that name in the same sentence as "big time" or "championship performer" before, and for good reason.
At least one good reason, the grizzlies sucks.

He showed at least one time that he is a "championship performer" when he lead Spain to the 2006 FIBA WC Final. Before he came in the NBA he also won the ACB title and the Copa del Rey along with two MVP award.

Nobody knows yet what he can do as a number 2 option in a good team. But it is stupid to act like if Gasol was just one soft player in the lakers roster.
Pau ain't no Shaq but he is still very good. There is a good reason why the trade upset Pop.

I don't fear the Lakers. But even without the hype they are a very good team.

[Purple & Gold]

1. Pistons have to give them their due after yesterday
2. Spurs - still the best team in league by more than most give them credit for, and going to get much stronger and tougher to guard and even better defensively with a healthy Parker and the addition of K. Thomas.
3. Lakers - still over-hyped and have been beating mainly very weak teams and gave up way over a 100 to Suns - which no other good team did in last three games. Neither the soft Gasol or the often out of position Bynum can stop the top teams interior scorers when it counts. A great team like the Spurs with 4 players capable of at least slowing down Kobe (Bowen, Udoka top two + Manu and Finley) can handle the LAL with impunity (at least this year) and don't forget Spurs add Tiago Splitter next year (better defensive big than Gasol).
4. Celtics - based on season record only but will probably be falling fast.
5. Rockets - 10 straight on road is impressive and 12 overall gets them into the realm as probably the Spurs biggest true threat in W.
6. Jazz probably better than both 4 and 5 but time will tell.
7. Hornets - still a fine team
8. Cavs - watch out and per my early season prediction will be in the finals again.
9. Mavs - Mr. assist queen won't be able to do this against good teams and he and his team will be abused offensively both by quick teams and down low with the loss of Diop. Stupid trade long term and does not bide well for playoffs vs. elite guards.
10. Suns and setting - could be starting a laughable free fall.

:blah :blah :blah :blah :blah




Did you get payed for these too?? :donkey

[Purple & Gold]

is it just me?? Am I missing something on this guy??

Pretty much. If Bynum comes back healthy and back to form for the playoffs, you will see just how good he is. Him and Gasol will dominate teams or allow Kobe to take over. I have no doubt that they will complement each other perfectly. Bynum is a rebounding machine and alters shots like crazy, he will make Gasol's job that much easier. And Gasol's midrange game and passing skills will work great with Bynum. It'll be an alley oop fest between them. Drew's also a nice passer himself, a very intelligent player. They will have no problem meshing. It will be a great combo.

Odom being able to play the 4 will also make our frontcourt better. I see him playing heavy minutes with the second unit and playing next to Gasol or Bynum when the other rests. So basically you will always be seeing Gasol, Odom, or Turiaf at the 4 and either Bynum or Gasol at the 5 (with Turiaf or Mbenga playing limited minutes). That's a damn strong frontcourt with hardly any weaknesses. Put Kobe with that and that's a dangerous team. Anybody that's sleeping on them is an idiot.