Game Thoughts: Spurs vs. Hawks Feb. 25

[timvp]

After the first 12 minutes of action, the only thing the Spurs accomplished was forcing Dr. James Naismith to roll over in his grave. Trailing 16-5 at the end of the first quarter, the Spurs had hit just 1-of-17 shot attempts and were apparently flustered by the youth and athleticism of the Atlanta Hawks.

Thankfully, the Spurs regrouped and dominated the rest of the game. In the final three quarters, San Antonio outscored Atlanta 84-58. Once you erase the first quarter from your memory, the rest of the game played out as a typical Spurs blowout win.

If the Hawks can add some savvy veterans to their mix, they aren’t far away from being a top five team in the Eastern Conference. Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford and Marvin Williams are four stud youngsters. Mike Bibby was a decent veteran addition but the Hawks need a couple more players who know how to win before they are any sort of legit contender.

Overall, I thought the Spurs played well after the disaster of a first quarter. For the rest of the game they shot better than 52% from the floor and got a lot of easy looks. Defensively, the team was really good all night – allowing the Hawks to shot just 33.3% from the floor. With six consecutive victories, the Spurs are now first in the Southwest Division and a half game behind the Los Angeles Lakers for the Western Conference lead.

-Tim Duncan struggled early on as the Hawks used a physical double-team to disrupt his offensive flow. Duncan found it difficult to get many clean looks at the basket but he kept his effort high and eventually figured it out. He finished with 23 points, ten rebounds, three blocks and two steals, while hitting 5-of-9 shots from the floor and 13-of-16 free throw attempts. Duncan had five turnovers in the first half but adjusted and had only one turnover in the second half. It wasn’t an attractive outing by Duncan but he ended up having a reasonably effective game.

-Manu Ginobili’s stats weren’t as gaudy as we’ve come to expect but he played pretty well. In 36 minutes, Ginobili had 13 points, five rebounds, three assists and three steals, while shooting 4-for-13 from the field. Ginobili’s main problem on the night was making two-pointers, as he was 3-for-6 on threes but only 1-for-7 on twos. I liked his effort defensively and he had a couple of timely plays on offense.

-Tony Parker’s game is starting to come around. After missing more than three weeks with an injury, Parker was obviously rusty in the last couple of games. Tonight, Parker again started off rusty but eventually found somewhat of a rhythm. In the third quarter, he had a stretch where he hit 6-of-7 shots from the field and was consistently able to get to the rim. However, outside of that spurt, Parker was just 1-for-9 from the court. The main culprit was his outside jumper as Parker missed all five of his jumpers. For the game, Parker had 15 points, nine assists, four rebounds and two blocks. Those two blocks alone tell me his ankle is feeling pretty good.

-Bruce Bowen spent the whole night harassing Joe Johnson and did a good job of doing so. Johnson missed 7-of-12 shots and had six turnovers. In 34 minutes, Bowen had five points, two rebounds and two steals. It wasn’t a great performance by Bowen but he was one of the main reasons why the Hawks struggled to score all game long.

-Fabricio Oberto got the start but played only the first six minutes of the game. He spent the rest of the game watching from the bench. The main reason was because the Hawks play a small lineup. Another valid reason was because Oberto didn’t play well while on the court. In his six minutes, Oberto had two rebounds and a turnover. With Kurt Thomas on board and Robert Horry playing better, Oberto will have to earn his minutes from now on.

-Michael Finley was decent in his 26 minutes off the bench but I felt that he was hesitating a bit too much. When the Spurs were struggling to score, Finley passed up a couple shots he usually shoots. Overall though, Finley didn’t play too bad. He finished with nine points and three rebounds on 4-for-11 shooting. To allow Pop to keep Ginobili in the starting lineup, Finley will need to be a consistent double-digit scorer off the bench.

-Robert Horry continues to look less stiff as the season progresses. He’s moving more freely now and doesn’t look like he’s 67-years-old playing on two prosthetics. In 21 minutes, Horry had three points, five rebounds and a blocked shot. He missed 3-of-4 shots from the floor, with his lone make coming on his lone three-point attempt. Horry is another player who can’t slump too much or else Thomas will gobble up his minutes.

-Ime Udoka is starting to fit into his role rather nicely. Defensively, Udoka is physical and is perhaps the team's best in-your-face defender. Offensively, he’s been streaky. Tonight was a good streak as he hit all four of his field goal attempts to finish ten points and three rebounds. If Brent Barry decides to come back to the Spurs, it’ll be interesting to see who will become the fourth swingman going into the playoffs.

-Damon Stoudamire didn’t shoot the ball well and didn’t play too well overall … but I still like him as the backup point guard more than I like Jacque Vaughn. Even when Stoudamire is shooting poorly, he still runs the offense effectively and he’s still a player who the opponent is forced to account for on the court. Against the Hawks, Stoudamire had three points on 1-for-5 shooting with one rebound, one assist and one steal.

-Kurt Thomas got his first minutes as a Spur and he was actually really good. He provides a tough, physical presence who isn’t afraid to lay the lumber. He has good timing on the boards and his jumper is money out to about 18 feet. He’s not going to take your breath away with his athleticism but he’s just a solid, smart player. The only thing I question about him is whether he’s quick enough to play with Duncan for long stretches. Tonight we didn’t get the answer to that because Thomas usually was in the game when Duncan rested. At worst, Thomas will better help hold the fort while Duncan is one the sidelines. Monday in his Spurs debut, Thomas finished with four points, nine rebounds and two blocks in 13 minutes. I’ll take that kind of production every night from him.

-Jacque Vaughn has to be the only third string point guard who is part of his team’s rotation at the moment. In seven minutes, he had one rebound and one assist. While Vaughn is a good insurance policy, I’d rather Pop give his minutes to Stoudamire for now to get Stoudamire more acclimated with his teammates. Vaughn knows all he’s going to know.

-Matt Bonner got into the game late and knocked down a couple shots. In two minuets, Bonner had four points and two assists. Now that he’s relegated to Tom Copa/Jack Haley/Gerard King/Mengke Bateer status, hopefully Bonner continues to work hard in case he’s needed at some point for whatever reason.

-I liked how Pop didn’t panic during the five-point first quarter. The Spurs couldn’t buy a shot but there wasn’t much Pop could have done. Yelling at the team wouldn’t have helped. Instead, Pop weathered the storm and kicked back while he waited for someone to hit a shot.

Again, I’m not thrilled with Ginobili leading the team in minutes. However, that should hopefully chance soon as Parker is able to pick up more and more of the offensive slack. Right now, the Spurs are too dependent on Ginobili to sit him for too long.

While the Spurs don’t play again until Thursday against the Dallas Mavericks, the Spurs will soon learn of Brent Barry’s decision. Barry has told teams he will decide on Tuesday where he’s going to sign. If the Spurs can woo him back for a second stint with the team, it’d be yet another victory.

Barry could sign wherever he likes since the Spurs are the one who traded him away but hopefully he realizes he’d become a hero if he were to return. He’s already a fan favorite but if he were to come back, he’d attain legendary status in San Antonio.

Back to the game against the Hawks, the bottomline is it was another solid W to add to the win column. The Spurs sucked to start the game but played well in the final three stanzas. After the Barry decision on Tuesday, the Spurs have what should be an interesting showdown against Jason Kidd and the new-look Mavs on Thursday in the AT&T Center.

[whottt]

I was impressed as hell with Kurt Thomas and liked seeing him in the uniform. I'm still not crazy about giving up a first round pick for him....and it's hard for me to forget how many times I've seen him wind up on the losing side of things...but I'd be lying if I said he didn't look good in a Spurs uniform. He very well could be the best traditional defensive big we've had since Drob retired.


As for his movement...tonight he seemed exceptionally fast compared to what I think of when I think of Kurt Thomas...in fact I didn't think it was him when he made plays because his movements seemed to be so much quicker than I thought they would be.



Overall it's easy to see why Pop likes him...especially now that I know he was once an assistant coach.

Seems to me that if anyone can pick up the Spurs system quickly it's a guy that's been a coach...so hopefully that will be true with Thomas.




Edit: and Pop can say Thomas was signed for the Lakers all he wants...but I think he's here to dispense some hard fouls in return for the ones Shaq is going to be dispensing...and to protect Duncan.

[greens]

Really good analysis.

By the way, are TP's two block shots a career high?

[T Park]

and it's hard for me to forget how many times I've seen him wind up on the losing side of things

But you forgot those things with Brent Barry?

[Obstructed_View]

It was kind of nice of the Spurs to get their lull out of the way early. Perhaps they are on their way to putting together some 48 minute efforts.

[whottt]

But you forgot those things with Brent Barry?


Um...I remember Barry's team sweeping the 2001 Lakers and Barry tearing them up. I remember Barry hitting a game winner against us in 03...I remember the Sonics taking us to 5 games in 02(in a 5 game series) and Barry's best game being the elimination game(with Bruce Bowen defending him).


Other than that...I remember Barry making the playoffs with the Clippers..

I don''t consider those actions losing when you look at the teams he had played on...Thomas OTOH has been on some good teams. The first really good team Barry ever played on...he won a championship....and he was the back up guard and swing rotation on that team...Beno and Devin pretty much watched. I noticed you had finally started to pull your head out of your ass concerning that...unfortunatetely it appears to have been reinserted.

[T Park]

Um...I remember Barry's team sweeping the 2001 Lakers and Barry tearing them up. I remember Barry hitting a game winner against us in 03...I remember the Sonics taking us to 5 games in 02 and Barry's best game being the elimination game(with Bruce Bowen defending him).


Other than that...I remember Barry making the playoffs with the Clippers..

I don''t consider those actions losing when you look at the teams he had played on...Thomas OTOH has been on some good teams. The first really good team Barry ever played on...he won a championship.


So it was Thomas's fault that his team's didn't win.

But it wasn't Barry's fault his teams lost.

Gotcha.

[whottt]

So it was Thomas's fault that his team's didn't win.

No...but Thomas damn sure wasn't a difference maker.

Barry was...



But it wasn't Barry's fault his teams lost.

First championship contender Barry played on he made a difference...that's not true of Thomas.




Gotcha.

You don't got shit...

[T Park]

No I see that you have different standards for Kurt Thomas and Brent Barry.

[timvp]

As for his movement...tonight he seemed exceptionally fast compared to what I think of when I think of Kurt Thomas...in fact I didn't think it was him when he made plays because his movements seemed to be so much quicker than I thought they would be. It was hard to tell because he doesn't show much outward emotion but Thomas was amped up and ready to play. He was playing even harder than he usually plays.

But if you think about it, he's finally on a team that wants him. The Knicks were always trying to trade him. Mike D'Antoni hated him and saw him as like the anti-Sun. The Sonics sucked. This Spurs team might be the first true team Thomas has been on since the '99 Knick team. And even that team was dysfunctional.

Even though he's 35, maybe he can up his level of play just by being on a team that's good and wants him to be a part of the team.

[Holt's Cat]

One has to be encouraged by Thomas' debut. As much as Thomas has had a chance to witness the Spurs in the postseason, it's apparent he was paying close attention.

Stoudamire gets Spurs Basketball. Once his shots start dropping with a little more regularity he will be the best backup 1 for the Spurs before "We Want It Now" left David Greenwood's lips.

[whottt]

No I see that you have different standards for Kurt Thomas and Brent Barry.


Pull your head out...then you'll see a different view.


Right now what II see is that you probably have direct relatives from Argentina....or Turkey.

[Obstructed_View]

First championship contender Barry played on he made a difference...that's not true of Thomas.
The last championship contender Thomas was on he damn sure made a difference. Too bad the only person that didn't see it was the guy who controlled his minutes.

[T Park]

One has to be encouraged by Thomas' debut. As much as Thomas has had a chance to witness the Spurs in the postseason, it's apparent he was paying close attention.

Stoudamire gets Spurs Basketball. Once his shots start dropping with a little more regularity he will be the best backup 1 for the Spurs before "We Want It Now" left David Greenwood's lips.

Yeah Stoudamire's shots aren't far off either.

When Stoudamire gets his shots going, and Kurt Thomas is given more minutes, this team is really gonna start kicking ass.

[polandprzem]

If Barry vs Udoka

It will depend on playoffs matchups


Ginos minutes

No offensive punch, Pop is somehow forced to play him that much

[T Park]

The last championship contender Thomas was on he damn sure made a difference. Too bad the only person that didn't see it was the guy who controlled his minutes.


Hey, the Suns being stupid is the Spurs gain, what can we say :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah Stoudamire's shots aren't far off either.

When Stoudamire gets his shots going, and Kurt Thomas is given more minutes, this team is really gonna start kicking ass.
I'm looking forward to having him and Finley in a shooting groove for the playoffs.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Nice to see Thomas had a good opening game. Interestingly he and Horry both had great +/- for the game. Horry was +19 so his presence must have been felt even if he didn't have a big statline.

9 rebounds in 13 minutes for KT is pretty impressive. I think the last guy we had in the middle who knew how to rebound other than TD was DRob. Thomas obviously is no Robinson, but if he can rebound and pull post defenders out with his jumper it will benefit Duncan a lot if the two of them can play together. And, perhaps more importantly, when Duncan rests Pop won't have to worry that Ginobili is going to have to be our only player getting rebounds.

Feels like a good fit for Mr. Thomas here in SA.

[E20]

Tony is fucking up Manu. :madrun

[T Park]

You put Finley, stoudamire, Ginobili, THomas, and Oberto out there.

You have a pick and rolling, shooting clinic.

This team IF they can get Barry back, is so diverse and so deep its not even funny.

[T Park]

Nice to see Thomas had a good opening game. Interestingly he and Horry both had great +/- for the game. Horry was +19 so his presence must have been felt even if he didn't have a big statline.

9 rebounds in 13 minutes for KT is pretty impressive. I think the last guy we had in the middle who knew how to rebound other than TD was DRob. Thomas obviously is no Robinson, but if he can rebound and pull post defenders out with his jumper it will benefit Duncan a lot if the two of them can play together. And, perhaps more importantly, when Duncan rests Pop won't have to worry that Ginobili is going to have to be our only player getting rebounds.

Feels like a good fit for Mr. Thomas here in SA.

Parker
Bowen
Udoka
Thomas
Duncan


Now thats a team that shuts down the other team on a defensive possession.

[polandprzem]

You put Finley, stoudamire, Ginobili, THomas, and Oberto out there.

You have a pick and rolling, shooting clinic.

This team IF they can get Barry back, is so diverse and so deep its not even funny.

Yea it makes me cry too

[Holt's Cat]

Game Thought

Messed around and won by 15. Damn right it was a good day.

[jcrod]

Loved what i saw from Thomas. 9 rebs 2 blocks in 13 mins...sick

I also think Pop should be giving every back up minute to Damon. He just looks fluid, unlike Vaughn. I would live losing a couple of games now so Damon could be more comfortable later.

[whottt]

The last championship contender Thomas was on he damn sure made a difference.

No..he didn't. Check the scoreboard.





Too bad the only person that didn't see it was the guy who controlled his minutes.

Whatever....that series was the one we almost lost so D'antoni wasn't doing too badly.

[T Park]

Game Thought

Messed around and won by 15. Damn right it was a good day.


Played 3 quarters and won by 15.

Your starting shooting guard shot horrible, your starting center was mediocre at times.


Hell of a good day.

[T Park]

Whatever....that series was the one we almost lost so D'antoni wasn't doing too badly.

So they almost lost the series to Kurt Thomas, but he had nothing to do with it....


So has Kurt Thomas's picture overtaken Finley's on your dartboard?

[bigfundamental21]

Thanks for the thoughts, Timvp.

I couldn't believe the first quarter play. Against a better team, that would have been suicide. Luckily, our defense kept us in the game and then we just found a rythym to finish out the game.

Do you think Manu had the POTW curse? Last time Tony got POTW, he had a terrible game the next time out. Guess you could say the same for Manu tonight.

Luckily, Timmy was solid and made sure that we won this game tonight.

Glad to see Thomas playing some solid minutes. He is a tremendous defensive asset. I will look forward to seeing him on the court at the same time as Timmy much more often.

And Tony looked a lot better tonight. Hopefully, he will be ready to turn on the jets against Kidd on Thursday night.

[Obstructed_View]

No..he didn't. Check the scoreboard.





Whatever....that series was the one we almost lost so D'antoni wasn't doing too badly.
Make up your mind, Sybil.

[Trainwreck2100]

All this Kurt Thomas jocking reminds me of when you people busted a nut over James White

[Obstructed_View]

All this Kurt Thomas jocking reminds me of when you people busted a nut over James White
Who spent a year and a half sucking for the Spurs that James white came in and outplayed in his first game?

[Trainwreck2100]

Who spent a year and a half sucking for the Spurs that James white came in and outplayed in his first game?

1 game against the Hawks. My 80 year old grandma would have looked better than the 1st quarter team by comparison. I'm not pointing out Thomas deficiencies but people's ability to jump from one jock to another. Which is how disease spreads BTW

[Whisky Dog]

Couple thoughts,

Once the rotation sets I don't know if Pop will go to many Thomas - Duncan front lines because he probably would prefer to run Horry out there to really open space for Duncan as well as Parker/Ginobili. Of course the production of Horry is going to be critical to just how much time he gets. I know Thomas can hit 15 - 18 ft jumpers, but Horry just gives so much more space by drawing the defender out to the 3 line anywhere on the court.

Thomas looks like he should be a great fit, everything that he brings and his personality just have "fit" written all over them in regards to the Spurs. He might fit the Spurs just as much as he didn't fit the Suns. One thing I had forgotten about him from the last playoffs is just how intelligent he plays on the block. Even little, simple things like knowing when to foul on the block and being very good at making sure the opponent has to go to the stripe for 2 and not +1.

[whottt]

So they almost lost the series to Kurt Thomas, but he had nothing to do with it....

Steve Nash's bad luck, Robert Horry's shoulder, and Amare and Diaw's stupidity is why they they lost that series...it had nothing to do with Kurt Thomas. Steve Nash was the main reason...he was on a mission last playoff. Best basketball he ever played IMO.





So has Kurt Thomas's picture overtaken Finley's on your dartboard?

Nah...I actually don't think Thomas is a choker like Finley, he doesn't have Mav stink on him like Finley, I don't think he cost his teams championships like Finley probably did...plus Thomas has never whined like a litltle fucking bitch like Finley did...

And finally..if Thomas is on the opposing team, I don't actively root for him to get the last second shot under pressure like I did with Finley either...

[Obstructed_View]

1 game against the Hawks. My 80 year old grandma would have looked better than the 1st quarter team by comparison. I'm not pointing out Thomas deficiencies but people's ability to jump from one jock to another. Which is how disease spreads BTW

Elson's career as a Spur vs. the Hawks in the first two lines. Thomas' night on the third. Other than the drop in shooting percentage, what's not to like again?
MP FG FGA FG% RB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS

12 1 1 1.000 2 0 0 1 1 5 2
12 1 2 .500 1 0 1 0 2 3 2

13 2 5 .400 9 0 1 2 0 3 4

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I hope to see Kurt Thomas matched up against other difficult bigs. He seemed to fit in pretty fast. I hope it continues.

[baseline bum]

-Kurt Thomas got his first minutes as a Spur and he was actually really good. He provides a tough, physical presence who isn’t afraid to lay the lumber. He has good timing on the boards and his jumper is money out to about 18 feet. He’s not going to take your breath away with his athleticism but he’s just a solid, smart player. The only thing I question about him is whether he’s quick enough to play with Duncan for long stretches. Tonight we didn’t get the answer to that because Thomas usually was in the game when Duncan rested. At worst, Thomas will better help hold the fort while Duncan is one the sidelines. Monday in his Spurs debut, Thomas finished with four points, nine rebounds and two blocks in 13 minutes. I’ll take that kind of production every night from him.

Holy shit, I knew Thomas was having a great game while I was watching, but I didn't know he had 9 boards in only 13 minute. This guy's the freaking Anti-Nesterovic! Or maybe Nazr Mohammed + bball IQ + hands.

[Mr. Body]

This is probably Kurt Thomas's best team to fit with since the last time the Knicks were good, about a decade ago. He has to feel very fortunate. In addition to what's been said, I really like how hard he'll foul a guy. If he fouls you, you know it.

Stoudamire, I've been surprisingly happy with. He's a good fit, and isn't trying to do too much. Thomas and Stoudamire look like their learning curves are going to be much shorter than most players new to the system.

[SouthernFried]

I agree with everything said about KT. I felt good about this trade the moment it was even suggested. This guy has played Spurs basketball for his entire career. He'll be steady and productive playing with Duncan, or coming off the bench. That's his game...not flashy, or huge numbers, but consistently steady.

Hopefully, Pop won't feel the need to play "small ball" so much now trying to match up with other teams. But, instead, play Spurs ball and make "other" teams try to match up with us for a change. This is potentiallly a better trade than the LA one because the fit is so damned good.

Anyway, I thought Tony's presence took something away from Manu tonight...he never really got into an offensive rythm. Manu will adjust again to the new lineup, but I think it will take a few games for both he and Tony to sync up again (and yeah, that fast break was nice :) )

Also agree with everyone about Stoudamaire. I feel comfortable with him out there, even tho his shot and offense aren't making any headlines. He just looks calm and confident. Would like to see a little more agressiveness on the offensive end at some point tho.

Another great analysis Tim. Always look forward to them.

On another note...

Can Barry say he has decided to go with the Spurs on Tuesday? Is it too early for that kind of statement from a team that cut him a week ago? Such an early statement from Barry concerns me that he may not come back.

[whottt]

Consider me one of those not sold on Stoudamire...I think he's playing fine enough but I've seen that dude choke a lot.

People can bash Vaughn, but when teams dare him to beat them....he hits his shot, and he does it with regularity. Little stuff like that is invaluable in winning a title IMO, and I'm not certain Stoudamire will do that....

He's definitely more talented than Vaughn, but sometimes it's about more than talent and for some reason I trust Vaughn more to come through in that sort of situation...I guess it's because of last season.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Must we bicker about nothing kids?

Anyhoo, about Manu: I think it's time to move him back to the bench. He looked tired tonight, and it's time for him to rest up. Parker looks to be regaining his game shape to the point that you can move Finley back to the starting lineup and get Manu's minutes back around the 30 mark. If you need him, you play him more, but otherwise, sit him.

KT looked like a perfect fit - a better back-up for Duncan, and against big lineups the perfect foil. Great acquisition.

I am also ready to concede, happily, that back on January 30 I was wrong about Horry being done. From that time, after almost 20 games in which he looked a step slow to be playing, he has gradually improved. His last 7 or 8 games he has looked more like an NBA player. I still don't think that he can be relied upon like he used to be, but I'd be surprised if he isn't the hero in one more playoff game... oh, and he and KT looked like a good combination to me.

As for Stoudamire vs Vaughn, I'm not convinced either way. I think Pop should use them as offensive/defensive back-up PG depending on the dictates of the situation, and see who comes out on top in the next 15 games. Vaughn can't shoot, but when he plays 10-15min of frenetic D combined with efficient distribution he can be a sparkplug for the team. Either way, having two capable backup PGs with different strengths is a nice luxury and allows Pop to keep TP's minutes down.

SPAM, here we come. :)

[wildchild]

-Kurt Thomas got his first minutes as a Spur and he was actually really good. The only thing I question about him is whether he’s quick enough to play with Duncan for long stretches. Tonight we didn’t get the answer to that because Thomas usually was in the game when Duncan rested.

Maybe Kurt'll better help with Tim out the court. When Tim takes rest, we have a great problem because we lost physical presence in the paint. Kurt could help so much in those minutes.
As RuffnReadyOzStyle said Kurt's is a better back up for Tim and this is one reason for he should come off the bench


Edit: and Pop can say Thomas was signed for the Lakers all he wants...but I think he's here to dispense some hard fouls in return for the ones Shaq is going to be dispensing...and to protect Duncan

in only 13' Kurt finished with 3th fouls. Also Oberto's foul prone and I don't see Horry over Shaq.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Barry could sign wherever he likes since the Spurs are the one who traded him away but hopefully he realizes he’d become a hero if he were to return. He’s already a fan favorite but if he were to come back, he’d attain legendary status in San Antonio.

Now that you wrote this he will probably go back to play for San Antonio. I'm sure they all read SpursTalk.

[SenorSpur]

Thomas is a better rebounder in his sleep than Oberto or Horry are when they are awake. 9 rebounds in limited action? That explains why he led the NCAA in rebounding during his college days.

[Indazone]

Spurs cannot afford to play the way they did in the 1st qtr. If they did that against any Western Conference contender it'd be game over. Good thing you played against one of the worst teams in the East. You know what's amazing? The Hawks still have a chance to make the playoffs.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

All this Kurt Thomas jocking reminds me of when you people busted a nut over James White


KURT THOMAS!







I don't know. Just doesn't have the same feel.

[2centsworth]

+/- for Jacque are usually +, while Damon is usually -. Does Damon really add more than Jacque?

[picnroll]

Thomas should have no problem playing with Duncan in key matchups. They should be able to play significant minutes together.

Lakers - Bynum, Gasol
Rockets - Yao, Scola
Jazz - Boozer, Okur
Detroit - Wallace, McDyess
Celtics - Garnett, Perkins

[remingtonbo2001]

Other than that...I remember Barry making the playoffs with the Clippers.

He was in a reserve role that entire season. He accumulated 6 DNP-CDs.

The Clippers were swept by the Jazz.


As for the comparison of Barry and Thomas:

Kurt has played on some good teams, however his teammates were not to the caliber of Duncan/Ginobili/Parker.

Bad example IMO.

[Trainwreck2100]

KURT THOMAS!







I don't know. Just doesn't have the same feel.

Kurt Thomas = Threes syllables
James White = two

[rAm]

are the Spurs under the radar right now?

[Holt's Cat]

are the Spurs under the radar right now?

I think so. The Lakers are penciled in for the next 100 championships. KG and the Cs dominate the East Coast media. The Suns and Shaq dominate the national media, win or lose. Kidd is back in Dallas. The upstarts from New Orleans are the feel good story of the year. Houston always seems to receive more coverage than is warranted. And right there in the middle is Silver & Black steel in the hour of chaos.

Pay no attention to that 800 lbs gorilla in the middle of the room.

[rAm]

I think so. The Lakers are penciled in for the next 100 championships. KG and the Cs dominate the East Coast media. The Suns and Shaq dominate the national media, win or lose. Kidd is back in Dallas. The upstarts from New Orleans are the feel good story of the year. Houston always seems to receive more coverage than is warranted. And right there in the middle is Silver & Black steel in the hour of chaos.

Pay no attention to that 800 lbs gorilla in the middle of the room.

gorillas with huge balls

[Obstructed_View]

+/- for Jacque are usually +, while Damon is usually -. Does Damon really add more than Jacque?
If he can hit his shots, he absolutely does. I thought Vaughn dramatically improved his jumper this season, and he hits them with such regularity I don't really worry about it anymore. He still doesn't have three point range, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'd rather a guy hit 90 percent of two pointers than 30 percent of threes.

[timvp]

Thomas should have no problem playing with Duncan in key matchups. They should be able to play significant minutes together.

Lakers - Bynum, Gasol
Rockets - Yao, Scola
Jazz - Boozer, Okur
Detroit - Wallace, McDyess
Celtics - Garnett, PerkinsI agree with the Lakers, Rockets and the Celtics. However, which of Duncan and Thomas do you trust going out on the perimeter and putting a hand up on Okur and Wallace?

[roycrikside]

After the first 12 minutes of action, the only thing the Spurs accomplished was forcing Dr. James Naismith to roll over in his grave. Trailing 16-5 at the end of the first quarter, the Spurs had hit just 1-of-17 shot attempts and were apparently flustered by the youth and athleticism of the Atlanta Hawks.

Thankfully, the Spurs regrouped and dominated the rest of the game. In the final three quarters, San Antonio outscored Atlanta 84-58. Once you erase the first quarter from your memory, the rest of the game played out as a typical Spurs blowout win.

If the Hawks can add some savvy veterans to their mix, they aren’t far away from being a top five team in the Eastern Conference. Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford and Marvin Williams are four stud youngsters. Mike Bibby was a decent veteran addition but the Hawks need a couple more players who know how to win before they are any sort of legit contender.

Overall, I thought the Spurs played well after the disaster of a first quarter. For the rest of the game they shot better than 52% from the floor and got a lot of easy looks. Defensively, the team was really good all night – allowing the Hawks to shot just 33.3% from the floor. With six consecutive victories, the Spurs are now first in the Southwest Division and a half game behind the Los Angeles Lakers for the Western Conference lead.

-Tim Duncan struggled early on as the Hawks used a physical double-team to disrupt his offensive flow. Duncan found it difficult to get many clean looks at the basket but he kept his effort high and eventually figured it out. He finished with 23 points, ten rebounds, three blocks and two steals, while hitting 5-of-9 shots from the floor and 13-of-16 free throw attempts. Duncan had five turnovers in the first half but adjusted and had only one turnover in the second half. It wasn’t an attractive outing by Duncan but he ended up having a reasonably effective game.

-Manu Ginobili’s stats weren’t as gaudy as we’ve come to expect but he played pretty well. In 36 minutes, Ginobili had 13 points, five rebounds, three assists and three steals, while shooting 4-for-13 from the field. Ginobili’s main problem on the night was making two-pointers, as he was 3-for-6 on threes but only 1-for-7 on twos. I liked his effort defensively and he had a couple of timely plays on offense.

-Tony Parker’s game is starting to come around. After missing more than three weeks with an injury, Parker was obviously rusty in the last couple of games. Tonight, Parker again started off rusty but eventually found somewhat of a rhythm. In the third quarter, he had a stretch where he hit 6-of-7 shots from the field and was consistently able to get to the rim. However, outside of that spurt, Parker was just 1-for-9 from the court. The main culprit was his outside jumper as Parker missed all five of his jumpers. For the game, Parker had 15 points, nine assists, four rebounds and two blocks. Those two blocks alone tell me his ankle is feeling pretty good.

-Bruce Bowen spent the whole night harassing Joe Johnson and did a good job of doing so. Johnson missed 7-of-12 shots and had six turnovers. In 34 minutes, Bowen had five points, two rebounds and two steals. It wasn’t a great performance by Bowen but he was one of the main reasons why the Hawks struggled to score all game long.

-Fabricio Oberto got the start but played only the first six minutes of the game. He spent the rest of the game watching from the bench. The main reason was because the Hawks play a small lineup. Another valid reason was because Oberto didn’t play well while on the court. In his six minutes, Oberto had two rebounds and a turnover. With Kurt Thomas on board and Robert Horry playing better, Oberto will have to earn his minutes from now on.

-Michael Finley was decent in his 26 minutes off the bench but I felt that he was hesitating a bit too much. When the Spurs were struggling to score, Finley passed up a couple shots he usually shoots. Overall though, Finley didn’t play too bad. He finished with nine points and three rebounds on 4-for-11 shooting. To allow Pop to keep Ginobili in the starting lineup, Finley will need to be a consistent double-digit scorer off the bench.

-Robert Horry continues to look less stiff as the season progresses. He’s moving more freely now and doesn’t look like he’s 67-years-old playing on two prosthetics. In 21 minutes, Horry had three points, five rebounds and a blocked shot. He missed 3-of-4 shots from the floor, with his lone make coming on his lone three-point attempt. Horry is another player who can’t slump too much or else Thomas will gobble up his minutes.

-Ime Udoka is starting to fit into his role rather nicely. Defensively, Udoka is physical and is perhaps the team's best in-your-face defender. Offensively, he’s been streaky. Tonight was a good streak as he hit all four of his field goal attempts to finish ten points and three rebounds. If Brent Barry decides to come back to the Spurs, it’ll be interesting to see who will become the fourth swingman going into the playoffs.

-Damon Stoudamire didn’t shoot the ball well and didn’t play too well overall … but I still like him as the backup point guard more than I like Jacque Vaughn. Even when Stoudamire is shooting poorly, he still runs the offense effectively and he’s still a player who the opponent is forced to account for on the court. Against the Hawks, Stoudamire had three points on 1-for-5 shooting with one rebound, one assist and one steal.

-Kurt Thomas got his first minutes as a Spur and he was actually really good. He provides a tough, physical presence who isn’t afraid to lay the lumber. He has good timing on the boards and his jumper is money out to about 18 feet. He’s not going to take your breath away with his athleticism but he’s just a solid, smart player. The only thing I question about him is whether he’s quick enough to play with Duncan for long stretches. Tonight we didn’t get the answer to that because Thomas usually was in the game when Duncan rested. At worst, Thomas will better help hold the fort while Duncan is one the sidelines. Monday in his Spurs debut, Thomas finished with four points, nine rebounds and two blocks in 13 minutes. I’ll take that kind of production every night from him.

-Jacque Vaughn has to be the only third string point guard who is part of his team’s rotation at the moment. In seven minutes, he had one rebound and one assist. While Vaughn is a good insurance policy, I’d rather Pop give his minutes to Stoudamire for now to get Stoudamire more acclimated with his teammates. Vaughn knows all he’s going to know.

-Matt Bonner got into the game late and knocked down a couple shots. In two minuets, Bonner had four points and two assists. Now that he’s relegated to Tom Copa/Jack Haley/Gerard King/Mengke Bateer status, hopefully Bonner continues to work hard in case he’s needed at some point for whatever reason.

-I liked how Pop didn’t panic during the five-point first quarter. The Spurs couldn’t buy a shot but there wasn’t much Pop could have done. Yelling at the team wouldn’t have helped. Instead, Pop weathered the storm and kicked back while he waited for someone to hit a shot.

Again, I’m not thrilled with Ginobili leading the team in minutes. However, that should hopefully chance soon as Parker is able to pick up more and more of the offensive slack. Right now, the Spurs are too dependent on Ginobili to sit him for too long.

While the Spurs don’t play again until Thursday against the Dallas Mavericks, the Spurs will soon learn of Brent Barry’s decision. Barry has told teams he will decide on Tuesday where he’s going to sign. If the Spurs can woo him back for a second stint with the team, it’d be yet another victory.

Barry could sign wherever he likes since the Spurs are the one who traded him away but hopefully he realizes he’d become a hero if he were to return. He’s already a fan favorite but if he were to come back, he’d attain legendary status in San Antonio.

Back to the game against the Hawks, the bottomline is it was another solid W to add to the win column. The Spurs sucked to start the game but played well in the final three stanzas. After the Barry decision on Tuesday, the Spurs have what should be an interesting showdown against Jason Kidd and the new-look Mavs on Thursday in the AT&T Center.

Oh my God this was an excellent recap. I swear, I think this is the best recap TimVP has ever done. Surely there isn't another writer in the country writing recaps any better than what LJ is doing right now. Compared to his current recapping prowess, LJ's recaps just flat out sucked last playoffs. :clap

[timvp]

Oh my God this was an excellent recap. I swear, I think this is the best recap TimVP has ever done. Surely there isn't another writer in the country writing recaps any better than what LJ is doing right now. Compared to his current recapping prowess, LJ's recaps just flat out sucked last playoffs. :clapThanks for the compliment.

:smokin

[FromWayDowntown]

I could see that Pop might choose to separate Duncan and Thomas for the most part, if only to keep a good rebounder on the floor at all times. That becomes less of an issue in the playoffs, when Duncan's minutes will increase, but it makes some sense to me to keep the Spurs' rebounding prowess fairly consistent throughout the game, rather than exposing them to spells of games without a great rebounder on the floor. It would be one thing if there was another pretty good rebounder on that bench (a Malik Rose type from the Twin Towers era) but I'm not sure that the Spurs have that guy right now.

[Holt's Cat]

I agree with the Lakers, Rockets and the Celtics. However, which of Duncan and Thomas do you trust going out on the perimeter and putting a hand up on Okur and Wallace?

Horry, I suppose.

[Holt's Cat]

I could see that Pop might choose to separate Duncan and Thomas for the most part, if only to keep a good rebounder on the floor at all times. That becomes less of an issue in the playoffs, when Duncan's minutes will increase, but it makes some sense to me to keep the Spurs' rebounding prowess fairly consistent throughout the game, rather than exposing them to spells of games without a great rebounder on the floor. It would be one thing if there was another pretty good rebounder on that bench (a Malik Rose type from the Twin Towers era) but I'm not sure that the Spurs have that guy right now.


Exactly. Spurs can always have one rebounding big anchoring the defense.

[timvp]

Horry, I suppose.Exactly. I just can't imagine Duncan or Thomas standing out at the perimeter guarding three-point shooters. That's an Horry specialty because Horry began his career as a small forward. Even Oberto is pretty good at it.

Maybe Duncan can step out and trust Thomas to hold down the fort inside. Maybe Thomas we compensate for his lack of quickness with extra energy. I guess we'll find out.

[roycrikside]

I agree with the Lakers, Rockets and the Celtics. However, which of Duncan and Thomas do you trust going out on the perimeter and putting a hand up on Okur and Wallace?

For Sheed, Timmy has to guard him, no question. Thomas can't do it. Maybe Fab or Horry can try, but Thomas can't. For Okur, anybody can guard him, he's not going to blow by or post up or anything. If they play big, we should probably play small and put Finley on Okur.

Duncan can check Boozer, Manu on AK (another guy who doesn't post often), Bruce on Williams, Tony on the shooting guard (Korver?), and Fin on Okur. Yeah, we'd have some match-up problems there, but they would have more.

[td4mvp21]

Exactly. I just can't imagine Duncan or Thomas standing out at the perimeter guarding three-point shooters. That's an Horry specialty because Horry began his career as a small forward. Even Oberto is pretty good at it.

Maybe Duncan can step out and trust Thomas to hold down the fort inside. Maybe Thomas we compensate for his lack of quickness with extra energy. I guess we'll find out.

I was going to say, I think Duncan is hesitant to do that because Oberto isn't a force inside. Thomas is a much better rebounder so I would think Duncan would feel more comfortable going out to contest. Or maybe the other way around?

[timvp]

For Okur, anybody can guard him, he's not going to blow byTell that to Matt Bonner. Bonner let Okur blow by him twice. In the same game.


:smchode:

[Obstructed_View]

I agree with the Lakers, Rockets and the Celtics. However, which of Duncan and Thomas do you trust going out on the perimeter and putting a hand up on Okur and Wallace?
You wouldn't. Duncan's smart enough to be able to do it, but you'd put Oberto or Horry in for that kind of matchup. Anything you can do to encourage Rasheed to stand outside the three point line is an advantage IMO.

[FromWayDowntown]

Consider me one of those not sold on Stoudamire...I think he's playing fine enough but I've seen that dude choke a lot.

I agree with this, too. :spless:

Damon is historically not a great percentage shooter and having watched him closely for a few games, I can see why. Last night wasn't a great example, because the Spurs played the game like a game against a bad team sandwiched between huge divisional games. But even in the context of last night's game, I think there were some times that Damon forced his shot when things weren't going for him and missed badly. I don't mind him shooting the ball, but I would like to see a bit more discretion from a guy who's hovered around 40% for his career.

[baseline bum]

And finally..if Thomas is on the opposing team, I don't actively root for him to get the last second shot under pressure like I did with Finley either...

Huh? So did you cheer when Finley hit the game-winner at the buzzer in Sean Elliott's face in 2000? How about when he hit the game-winner in game 1 of the 03 WCF?

[Southwest Texas Fan]

I could see that Pop might choose to separate Duncan and Thomas for the most part, if only to keep a good rebounder on the floor at all times. That becomes less of an issue in the playoffs, when Duncan's minutes will increase, but it makes some sense to me to keep the Spurs' rebounding prowess fairly consistent throughout the game, rather than exposing them to spells of games without a great rebounder on the floor. It would be one thing if there was another pretty good rebounder on that bench (a Malik Rose type from the Twin Towers era) but I'm not sure that the Spurs have that guy right now.


I wonder how Ime's rebounding numbers will be like in the playoffs?

[picnroll]

I agree with the Lakers, Rockets and the Celtics. However, which of Duncan and Thomas do you trust going out on the perimeter and putting a hand up on Okur and Wallace?
Okur isn' t exceptionally mobile or great putting the ball on the floor. Either Duncan or Thomas can cover him on the perimeter. Wallace is more mobile but he doesn't put the ball on the floor. He usually camps out outside or posts up doen't require a real mobile player. Guys like Bosh, Stoudemirre, Dirk it wouldn't work so well.

[Obstructed_View]

Huh? So did you cheer when Finley hit the game-winner at the buzzer in Sean Elliott's face in 2000? How about when he hit the game-winner in game 1 of the 03 WCF?
I was puzzling on that one as well. For his flaws, Fin has always seemed pretty clutch.

[whottt]

Huh? So did you cheer when Finley hit the game-winner at the buzzer in Sean Elliott's face in 2000? How about when he hit the game-winner in game 1 of the 03 WCF?


Oh Finley will always hit those...it's the must make shots he'll miss. See Game 07 VS Dallas in 06.


That's what is bad about him...he's just good enough to be on the floor to let you down when it matters most.

I've said it since the day he signed...and he's not proven me wrong yet.


And don't bring up any series he had against scrub teams...even Chris Webber avdvanced once or twice.

[baseline bum]

Oh Finley will always hit those...it's the must make shots he'll miss. See Game 07 VS Dallas in 06.


Like the huge three he hit to give the Spurs a two-point lead with 15 seconds in Game 4 of the '06 series vs Dallas? The one that would have evened the series had Dick Bavetta not gift-wrapped the game-tying free throws to Dirk with that bullshit foul on Bowen.

What about when he trapped Nowitzki in the corner at the end of game 6 to make his potential game-tying shot almost impossible?



That's what is bad about him...he's just good enough to be on the floor to let you down when it matters most.

I've said it since the day he signed...and he's not proven me wrong yet.


And don't bring up any series he had against scrub teams...even Chris Webber avdvanced once or twice.

OK, I'll bring up the 06 series against Dallas, when he was clearly the best role player on the team. Were you even watching that series?

[whottt]

Like the huge three he hit to give the Spurs a two-point lead with 15 seconds in Game 4 of the '06 series vs Dallas? The one that would have evened the series had Dick Bavetta not gift-wrapped the game-tying free throws to Dirk with that bullshit foul on Bowen.


Wasn't the decisive game...




OK, I'll bring up the 06 series against Dallas, when he was clearly the best role player on the team. Were you even watching that series?


Yeah, in fact he played well in the game 7 I referenced...until the end of it, and then he couldn't hit a shot.


That's what he does....just good enough, to be on the court to let you down when it matters most.


You will lose this battle because I am right...watch and see.


Same way I knew Finley was going to choke in the finals last year(and he did).



I've watched a lot of basketball...Finley is the guy I never want shooting the last shot for my team and always want shooting it for the other team...it's a subconcious thing and I trust my instincts here more than anything else.

[1Parker1]

I agree with this, too. :spless:

Damon is historically not a great percentage shooter and having watched him closely for a few games, I can see why. Last night wasn't a great example, because the Spurs played the game like a game against a bad team sandwiched between huge divisional games. But even in the context of last night's game, I think there were some times that Damon forced his shot when things weren't going for him and missed badly. I don't mind him shooting the ball, but I would like to see a bit more discretion from a guy who's hovered around 40% for his career.

Yea, but would you rather have Vaughn out there? I know he plays good defense and knows the Spurs system best. However, whenever he's in the game I find myself yelling at his constant overdribbling. Moreover, teams just beg him to shoot, lay off him and make an outside shot, which isn't exactly a high % shot.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, in fact he played well in the game 7 I referenced...until the end of it, and then he couldn't hit a shot.

Like the three he hit with 1:45 left in the 4th quarter in game 7 to draw the Spurs to within 1 at 101-100?

[whottt]

Like the three he hit with 1:45 left in the 4th quarter in game 7 to draw the Spurs to within 1 at 101-100?


Keep going...

[baseline bum]

Keep going...

So that wasn't an important shot?

[td4mvp21]

Wasn't the decisive game...





Yeah, in fact he played well in the game 7 I referenced...until the end of it, and then he couldn't hit a shot.


That's what he does....just good enough, to be on the court to let you down when it matters most.


You will lose this battle because I am right...watch and see.


Same way I knew Finley was going to choke in the finals last year(and he did).

What the fuck do you mean it "wasn't the decisive game"? Game 4 decided that series IMO. It put us in a 1-3 hole and we didn't have the energy in overtime of Game 7 to pull it out. That was a fucking clutch shot.


[SAS 79-84] Duncan Free Throw 1 of 2 (29 PTS)
[SAS 80-84] Duncan Free Throw 2 of 2 (30 PTS)
[SAS 82-84] Duncan Layup Shot: Made (32 PTS)
10:12 Bowen Jump Shot: Missed
9:37 Ginobili Jump Shot: Missed
9:06 Bowen Jump Shot: Missed
[SAS 83-91] Duncan Free Throw 1 of 2 (33 PTS)
[SAS 84-91] Duncan Free Throw 2 of 2 (34 PTS)
[SAS 87-93] Ginobili Jump Shot: Made (12 PTS)
[SAS 89-94] Ginobili Driving Layup: Made (14 PTS)
[SAS 91-94] Ginobili Driving Layup: Made (16 PTS)
5:54 Bowen Jump Shot: Missed
5:11 Bowen Jump Shot: Missed
[SAS 92-96] Ginobili Free Throw 1 of 2 (17 PTS)
4:11
[SAS 93-96] Ginobili Free Throw 2 of 2 (18 PTS)
3:38 Ginobili Jump Shot: Missed
[SAS 95-98] Duncan Layup Shot: Made (36 PTS)
2:49 Parker Jump Shot: Missed
[SAS 97-99] Duncan Layup Shot: Made (38 PTS)
[SAS 100-101] Finley Jump Shot: Made (11 PTS)
[SAS 101-101] Duncan Free Throw 2 of 2 (39 PTS)
[SAS 104-101] Ginobili Jump Shot: Made (21 PTS)
0:00 Ginobili Layup Shot: Missed
0:00 Duncan Layup Shot: Missed Block: Nowitzki (1 BLK)
0:00 Duncan Rebound (Off:4 Def:9)
End of 4th Quarter

Finely took one (1) shot the entire fourth quarter and made it.

Start of 1st Overtime
0:17 Finley Jump Shot: Missed
0:04 Finley Jump Shot: Missed

Finely took two (2) shots in the entire overtime, when the game was already over. He missed two shots, both were just heaves at the basket. Give credit where credit is due. Had Finely missed shots in the midst of the overtime, I might agree with you. BTW, Finley had 12 points on 4-8 shooting (3-7 downtown). He made the only shot he took in the fourth quarter.

[whottt]

I never said Finley wasn't good...I said he's a guy that's good enough to be on the court to let you down when it matters most(and good enough to be taking the shot that does so)...that's exactly what he did in that series...

Stephen Jacskon, he aint.

[baseline bum]

Oh, I see... Finley missed a jumpshot with 0:17 seconds left in OT in game 7 with the team down 4, which means he sucks. Got it.

[whottt]

Oh, I see... Finley missed a jumpshot with 0:17 seconds left in OT in game 7 with the team down 4, which means he sucks. Got it.


I never said he sucks(well actually he kind of does now)...


Spin it however you want it but that miss was huge...and he'd earned enough to trust throughout that series to be the guy taking it...that's what he does.

Made us the Mavs bitch...made us the Mavs.


And Dallas sure didn't seem to be missing him that season either...

[Holt's Cat]

The lengths whotttt will go to defend his crush.

[baseline bum]

I never said he sucks(well actually he kind of does now)...


Spin it however you want it but that miss was huge...and he'd earned enough to trust throughout that series to be the guy taking it...that's what he does.

Made us the Mavs bitch...made us the Mavs.


And Dallas sure didn't seem to be missing him that season either...

Duncan and Ginobili missed game-winners in that game too. So they let the team down also?

[whottt]

Duncan

Duncan was collapsed upon...


I feel good with Duncan taking the last shot, anytime(unless it's FT).






and Ginobili missed game-winners in that game too.

Well...Manu's not that great in that situation either(although he's better than Finley).


Parker is better at hitting the last second shots.


But by all means...get back to shitting on Duncan in defense of Finley.

[whottt]

The lengths whotttt will go to defend his crush.


My standard isn't double...


Yours is...


If Barry had ever shot from 3 what Finley is shooting from 2 this season, you guys would have been trashing him...in fact you did.


The double standard is all yours...whitey.

[whottt]

In closing...Finley missed that shot. He did not make it. And he's a missed a lot of similar ones...Scoreboard.

[Holt's Cat]

Finley was ahead of Barry in the rotation, so whottt must run him down.

Thomas is who Barry was traded for, so whottt must run him down.

You're predictable and a bore.

[baseline bum]

How am I shitting on Duncan? You're the only Spurs fan on the board who does that.

I don't get using the 06 Dallas series as evidence in your vendetta against Fin. He made clutch plays that whole series, and his play was one of the main reason the team was able to rally from down 3-1 to miss winning that series by a layup.

[baseline bum]

:yield

[whottt]

Finley was ahead of Barry in the rotation, so whottt must run him down.

Actually...Finley was behind Barry in the rotation, this season and last, until Barry got injured. And I know Finley was starting...but Barry was the guy getting the minutes.





Thomas is who Barry was traded for, so whottt must run him down.

False...I haven't particularly run Thomas down...I just don't think he's that great. FWIW...I might be wrong about him and if you pull your head out and read this thread you will see that I have no problems admitting that.




You're predictable and a bore.

Which is why I was more than ok with trading Barry for Artest...


I'm not the predictable one...you are....balla.




It's not lost on me that I am arguing with two guys that idolize a couple players that turned cancerous and attempted to assfuck the teams they were once the embodiment of...in AJ and Finley...and that whine to the media...like bitches.


Ironically enough...those two didn't exactly hit it off when they were on the same team.

What's the expression? Two weeds won't grow in the same spot?


Some shit like that...

[Holt's Cat]

Finley was starting earlier this season. Starting means ahead in the rotation. Duh. And Barry coming off the bench was not like moving Ginobili there to bring some pop off the bench.

[baseline bum]

Pointing out that Finley was a vital player who made timely plays throughout the whole Dallas series is idolizing him?

[whottt]

Finley was starting earlier this season. Starting means ahead in the rotation. Duh.


Sincerely,

Manu


Try not to take a crap...wouldn't want you to lose what intelligence you have.

[Holt's Cat]

Pointing out that Finley was a vital player who made timely plays throughout the whole Dallas series is idolizing him?


Sure, when you idolize the Spurs' 10th man.

[Holt's Cat]

Sincerely,

Manu


Try not to take a crap...wouldn't want you to lose what intelligence you have.


Oh, so Barry is now on Manu's level and all of the Spurs' starters are weaker than their counterparts on the bench.

[whottt]

Pointing out that Finley was a vital player who made timely plays throughout the whole Dallas series is idolizing him?


He is the same kind of player as AJ...exactly the same kind of player mentalitywise, and there's just someting about that type of player you guys like...and there''s something about them that I don't...and that's just the way it is.


But you won't find many people trying to claim either AJ or Finley are clutch...outside of you two....and Tpark.

[whottt]

Oh, so Barry is now on Manu's level and all of the Spurs' starters are weaker than their counterparts on the bench.


No...it just means being the starting 2 guard for the Spurs doesn't exactly mean you are the man.

Barry started for Manu his first year with the team...ahead of Devin Brow...I didn't hear you guys claiming that as proof that he had beaten Devin Brown out then...so why are you trying to do it now?

[Holt's Cat]

No...it just means being the starting 2 guard for the Spurs doesn't exactly mean you are the man.

So instead of starting the 2nd best 2 guard Pop goes with the 3rd best? That's redneck dumb.




Barry started for Manu his first year with the team...ahead of Devin Brow...I didn't hear you guys claiming that as prood that he had beaten Devin Brown out...so why are you trying to do it now?

Perhaps because, oh, I don't know, Finley is the better option?

[Obstructed_View]

a couple players that turned cancerous and attempted to assfuck the teams they were once the embodiment of...in AJ and Finley...and that whine to the media...like bitches.
de·lu·sion /dɪˈluʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-loo-zhuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. an act or instance of deluding.
2. the state of being deluded.
3. a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur.
4. Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.

[Holt's Cat]

Most Spurs fans personally like Brent Barry, just like they liked AJ. That is a much more apt comparison.

[baseline bum]

Way to go down with the ship, whottt!

[whottt]

So instead of starting the 2nd best 2 guard Pop goes with the 3rd best? That's redneck dumb.


Actually...it's a well known fact that Pop likes guys that can bring energy and offense(not just scoring)off the bench...which is why he puts Manu there, and Barry. He has his set rotation and some guys get placeholder duty...


You'll probably see this happen with your boy Thomas...





Perhaps because, oh, I don't know, Finley is the better option?


LOL perhaps Finley was sucking ass both years until Barry was out of the way...and didn't start playing better until Barry got injured...which is 100% true.

[td4mvp21]

It's no use arguing with whottt because he either ignores evidence or twist it to mean something that it cleary doesn't, and then insists he's right and we are all stupid.

[Holt's Cat]

Actually...it's a well known fact that Pop likes guys that can bring energy off the bench...which is why he puts Manu there, and Barry. He has his set rotation and some guys get placeholder duty...

So why is he starting the 3rd best 2 guard against opponents' starters?





LOL perhaps Finley was sucking ass both years until Barry was out of the way...and didn't start playing better until Barry got injured...which is 100% true.

Perhaps Finley is the better player. Anyone without an irrational love of Barry can figure that out.

[whottt]

So why is he starting the 3rd best 2 guard against opponents' starters?


Because it does more to help him not suck being on the court with Duncan and Manu...






Perhaps Finley is the better player. Anyone without an irrational love of Barry can figure that out.


Yeah...which is why we were champions in 05 and then added Finley and weren't...and the Mavs dumped him and all of a sudden were world beaters.


Irreplacable player there...just like AJ.

[baseline bum]

I think David Robinson and Brent Barry are the only two people in the history of the franchise that whotttt has ever liked.

[whottt]

I think David Robinson and Brent Barry are the only two people in the history of the franchise that whotttt has ever liked.

False...in fact I like more Spurs players than you guys do...I just don't like the ones that are more mouth and attitude than actual game...you guys do.

[Holt's Cat]

Because it does more to help him not suck being on the court with Duncan and Manu...

Manu is coming off the bench.






Yeah...which is why we were champions in 05 and then added Finley and weren't...and the Mavs dumped him and all of a sudden were world beaters.


Irreplacable player there...just like AJ.

'06 was AJ's first full season as HC. That had much more to do with the Mavs' improvement than anything else.

[whottt]

And BTW...boy am I glad we signed Kidd :tu

[Holt's Cat]

False...in fact I like more Spurs players than you guys do...I just don't like the ones that are more mouth and attitude than actual game...you guys do.

:lol What a fucking moron.

[whottt]

Manu is coming off the bench.

Excuse me...I meant Parker :tu

I give you props for finally making an accurate statement in this thread...props.







'06 was AJ's first full season as HC. That had much more to do with the Mavs' improvement than anything else.

Hmmm...you think AJ didn't have anything to do with Finley becoming expendable?


They could have used that clause on other players...

[Obstructed_View]

in fact I have an irrational crush on more Spurs players than you guys do.
Fixed for accuracy.

[baseline bum]

Nice to ignore facts and go to the AJ card when in doubt.

[whottt]

:lol What a fucking moron.

You spend much more time ripping Spurs players than I do...and talking about trading them...

[Holt's Cat]

Hmmm...you think AJ didn't have anything to do with Finley becoming expendable?


They could have used that clause on other players...

Like who? Finley's contract offered the best possible lux tax savings. Finley isn't worth $35 mil a season.

[whottt]

Like who? Finley's contract offered the best possible lux tax savings.

Best possible lux tax savings...but if he'd been an essential player he wouldn't have been the one they let go.

He was the one they let go...and he wasn't an essential player...after all, they beat us(with him on our team), and made their first finals.




Finley isn't worth $35 mil a season.

At last...common ground.


Unfortunately...we both know that Cuban isn't a tax first win second owner...


IF Finley was all you guys thought he was...he wouldn't have been the one they let go..it's not like letting him go saved them from getting hit.

[Holt's Cat]

Best possible lux tax savings...but if he'd been an essential player he wouldn't have been the one they let go.

Well he wasn't a franchise player at that point.




He was the one they let go...and he wasn't an essential player...after all, they beat us(with him on our team), and made their first finals.


Yeah, he wasn't worth $35 mil a season. Some revelation.

[whottt]

Nice to ignore facts and go to the AJ card when in doubt.


What AJ card?


Hell...AJ and me actually agree on Finley. I'd have wanted Stackhouse over him too...at least you know Stack will choke...Finley makes you think he won't. That's worse...

[Obstructed_View]

What AJ card?


Hell...AJ and me actually agree on Finley. I'd have wanted Stackhouse over him too...at least you know Stack will choke...Finley makes you think he won't. That's worse...
Yeah, that's the reason. :rolleyes

Finley
2004-05 Dallas Mavericks NBA $14,609,375

Stackhouse
2004-05 Dallas Mavericks NBA $7,437,500

[whottt]

Yeah, that's the reason. :rolleyes

Finley
2004-05 Dallas Mavericks NBA $14,609,375

Stackhouse
2004-05 Dallas Mavericks NBA $7,437,500



Doesn't matter...Cuban took on that payroll before he knew he'd be able to get out of it. He was willing to pay it...


Finley didn't like a reduced role and was complaining about it.
Finley's game had deteriorated.
They viewed Finley as being the heart and soul of the soft Mavs.


That's why he was the one that was let go...

Don't confuse Cuban with Holt...

[Holt's Cat]

Doesn't matter...Cuban took on that payroll before he knew he'd be able to get out of it. He was willing to pay it...


Finley didn't like a reduced role and was complaining about it.
Finley's game had deteriorated.
They viewed Finley as being the heart and soul of the soft Mavs.


That's why he was the one that was let go...

Don't confuse Cuban with Holt...


$50 mil is real money, even to Mark Cuban.

[whottt]

$50 mil is real money, even to Mark Cuban.


No it's really not...Cuban really wanted to win more....the tax hits he was going to start getting didn't start to bother him until he kept getting the same result in the post season....again and again and again.


But it wasn't his first concern...that's why his payroll got so huge in the first place.


Common sense really...

[Holt's Cat]

So Finley wasn't worth $35 mil a year. BFD.

We'll find out how much Barry is worth to the Mavs.

[whottt]

We'll find out how much Barry is worth to the Mavs.


What does Barry have to do with it?

[Obstructed_View]

Doesn't matter...Your silly facts and logic won't derail me from my beliefs...

[whottt]

The funny thing about you Barry bashers...

Out of Mario Elie, Stephen Jackson, Steve Kerr, Mike Finley...all those guys...


First let me preface this...I am a Mario Elie Fan...he is one of my favorite Spurs ever and I fully credit him with being the guy that turned this franchise around...



But out of all those guys...they all had other guards swings on the bench that pitched during their runs...


Barry really was our back up rotation...the only one. By far our weakest guard bench, when it basically consisted of one guy...who incidentally you guys bashed the shit out of game in and game out.

Even though...he shot better in that post season, than Stephen Jackson, Mario Elie, Jaren Jackson...Manu Ginobili...and still all you guys did was bash the shit out of him because you can't see jack shit beyond PPG and how many chest bumps a player does after a dunk.



And that was our hardest run to a title...and we didn't need Michael fukcing Finley...in fact the only thing I remember him doing that year was whining like a bitch about Bruce Bowen's d.

[Obstructed_View]

The funny thing about you Barry bashers...

Barry really was our back up rotation...the only one. By far our weakest guard bench, when it basically consisted of one guy...who incidentally you guys bashed the shit out of game in and game out.
Yeah, getting annoyed at a three point shooter for passing up wide open three pointers is damn near unforgivable. What haters we were. Glad you were there to try to shit on someone else in order to prop up "your" guy as usual.

The only reason it was the weakest guard bench is because of who was there passing up shots. It certainly makes everyone else's job that much harder.

[whottt]

Yeah, getting annoyed at a three point shooter for passing up wide open three pointers is damn near unforgivable.

Can you prove that? Becuase I can prove that Mike D'antoni ripped the asshole out of his club for leaving Barry open...( go watch the Suns series and you will see D'antoni doing it in one of the games, on TV).

If Mike D'antoni wouldn't leave him open you think AJ and Larry Brown will?


Dude's only a former 3 point champ and the 14th best 3 shooter in NBA history...



Yeah...Larry Brown was just leaving him wide open all day long...


Stupid fuck.


See...you just pull unsubstantiated shit out of your fucking ass and then claim I am the one with the double stadard...


Well I said Finley missed those shots...

Fact. I was right, not one but two.


I can prove Finley has sucked both in the post season and in the regular season, as a Spur worse than Barry ever has.


Fact.


I can also prove that prior to last season Barry was the best post season 3 point threat in Spurs history.


Fact.

I can prove we won a title with him being the main guard off the bench, moreso than any other player had been the main guard off the bench.


Fact.

Oh..and it was due to injury you dumbass...if we hadn't had Barry we wouldn't have that title you ungrateful fuck.


You think we'd have won if Barry had been injured and Devin or Beno had been asked to do that?


And I can also prove that we lost a title by adding Finley to that same fucking team. And Finley going ahead of Barry in the rotation.

Fact.


I've got nothing but facts backing my shit up...


You've got the fumes you are inhaling from sucking Finley's ass backing you up.


Either post something of a factual nature to prove any of shit you are saying...or shut the fuck up about playing favorites.


You guys are the ones playing favorites...not me.

[baseline bum]

Can you prove that? Becuase I can prove that Mike D'antoni ripped the asshole out of his club for leaving Barry open...( go watch the Suns series and you will see D'antoni doing it in one of the games, on TV).

If Mike D'antoni wouldn't leave him open you think AJ and Larry Brown will?


Dude's only a former 3 point champ and the 14th best 3 shooter in NBA history...



Yeah...Larry Brown was just leaving him wide open all day long...


Stupid fuck.


See...you just pull unsubstantiated shit out of your fucking ass and then claim I am the one with the double stadard...


Well I said Finley missed those shots...

Fact. I was right, not one but two.


I can prove Finley has sucked both in the post season and in the regular season, as a Spur worse than Barry ever has.


Fact.


I can also prove that prior to last season Barry was the best post season 3 point threat in Spurs history.


Fact.

I can prove we won a title with him being the main guard off the bench, moreso than any other player had been the main guard off the bench.


Fact.

Oh..and it was due to injury you dumbass...if we hadn't had Barry we wouldn't have that title you ungrateful fuck.


You think we'd have won if Barry had been injured and Devin or Beno had been asked to do that?


And I can also prove that we lost a title by adding Finley to that same fucking team. And Finley going ahead of Barry in the rotation.

Fact.


I've got nothing but facts backing my shit up...


You've got the fumes you are inhaling from sucking Finley's ass backing you up.


Either post something of a factual nature to prove any of shit you are saying...or shut the fuck up about playing favorites.


You guys are the ones playing favorites...not me.

Fact - Michael Finley hit the go-ahead three to put the Spurs up two with 15 seconds left in a must-win game 4 in Dallas in the 06 WCSF.

Fact - Michael Finley completely trapped Dirk Nowitzki in the corner and forced him into a horrible fading Hail Mary to try to even the score with 7 seconds left in game 6.

Fact - Michael Finley made a three to bring the Spurs to within one point with 1:45 to go in game 7 of the 2006 WCSF with Dallas.

Fact - Michael Finley averaged 13.5 ppg on 55.6% shooting (and 47.1% from beyond the arc) in games 4-7 of the 2006 series with Dallas.

Fact - Michael Finley did hit in fact hit a gamewinning shot to give Dallas game 1 of the 2003 WCF. Certainly that game had to mean something.

Fact - Stephen Jackson missed an open three that would have won game 2 of the 2003 Finals. Therefore, he also sucks by whoott logic.

Wow, you're going to hold a shot with 4 seconds left in an 8-point game against Finley? :lol

What a fucking hater you are.

[Obstructed_View]

Can you prove that? Becuase I can prove that Mike D'antoni ripped the asshole out of his club for leaving Barry open...
Can I prove that Barry passed up shots when he was open? Yes. Can I prove it to you? No. I showed you the salary figures, and you still think money had nothing to do with Finley being the Mavs' amnesty cut.


Dude's only a former 3 point champ and the 14th best 3 shoter in NBA history...
Nice try. He was a slam dunk champion. He did participate in a 3 point contest. I believe he came in last. Your inaccuracies aside, he is a great shooter, which is why it was so frustrating, and so very fresh in my mind, that he was failiing to attempt open threes once he joined the Spurs. There are stats to support the decline in his offensive numbers, but I'm sure you'll continue to prevent those things from detering you in any way.


Yeah...Larry Brown was just leaving him wide open all day long...
Never said anything like that. If he'd been open all day long it wouldn't have really mattered. When the team works their ass off to get a shooter an open look five times and he passes up three of them, it's bad basketball. Not that you actually know anything about basketball.


See...you just pull unsubstantiated shit out of your fucking ass and then claim I am the one with the double stadard...

Well I said Finley missed those shots...

Fact. I was right, not one but two.


I can prove Finley has sucked both in the post season and in the regular season, worse than Barry ever has.
I never said Barry sucked, which is an opinion, and not easily supported by facts anyway. I simply said he should shoot more when open, and you got all butthurt about it because you're an idiot. Barry missed 100 percent of those shots he passed up. Anything above 0% shooting for Finley is a bonus. I actually don't have a problem with a guy missing good shots. I've only had a problem with a guy not playing his role, and I certainly won't try to diminish what he accomplished with the team. That's your job.


Fact.


I can also prove that prior to last season Barry was the best post season 3 point threat in Spurs history.

You can prove he was a threat? He's a threat just by being who he is, whether he takes a shot or not. Imagine what you could prove if he attempted some shots, or at least played as well as he did in Seattle. That he attempted one fewer three pointer than Bowen did in the 2005 playoffs supports my position, not yours.


Fact.

I can prove we won a title with him being the main guard off the bench, moreso than any other player had been the main guard off the bench.

That doesn't prove that he didn't pass up open shots. Nor does it come near supporting your belief that Finley "sucks" any more than my listing the shots that Barry missed over his career is evidence of anything.



Fact.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.


Oh..and it was due to injury you dumbass...if we hadn't had Barry we wouldn't that title you ungrateful fuck.
What are you talking about? Do you even know anymore? Who's being ungrateful by bad mouthing a player that contributed to a championship run. Oh, yeah. You are. Finley got put in a position where he was asked to play out of position in a small lineup in a physical playoff series and he tried to do it. You call him a loser because he lost.


And I can also prove that we lost a title by adding Finley to that same fucking team.

Fact.


Don't mention the subtractions. Just mention that Finley's never been on a championship team and hope nobody notices that you're wrong.



I've got nothing but facts backing my shit up...
Well you're half right; what you've got is shit.

[whottt]

Can I prove that Barry passed up shots when he was open? Yes. Can I prove it to you? No. You can't prove it all...I saw you guys saying he was passing up open shots all the time when he clearly had a defender rushing towards him in time to disrupt the shots...that's not truly an open shot.


I showed you the salary figures, and you still think money had nothing to do with Finley being the Mavs' amnesty cut.

I never said money had nothing to do with it...but it's a well know fact that Cuban was willing to go well over tax threshold in an effort to win.


And now you guys are trying to spin it like he's Peter Holt part 2...when he isn't. And you know it.

[whottt]

Nice try. He was a slam dunk champion. He did participate in a 3 point contest. I believe he came in last. Your inaccuracies aside, he is a great shooter, which is why it was so frustrating, and so very fresh in my mind, that he was failiing to attempt open threes once he joined the Spurs. There are stats to support the decline in his offensive numbers, but I'm sure you'll continue to prevent those things from detering you in any way.


What a fucking douche bag you are...


Read, learn...believe me when I say this...read and learn...one of us does not know as much as the other and has just kicked their own ass severely. I am telling you this for your own good. Read and learn...before you go any further.

[whottt]

Barry was never a 3 point champ...that's hilarious. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

Barry was never a 3 point champ...that's hilarious. :lolLet me know when you find him on this list. If you have access to some information that I don't I'd love to see it.


2008 - Jason Kapono, Toronto Raptors
2007 - Jason Kapono, Miami Heat
2006 - Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas Mavericks
2005 - Quentin Richardson, Phoenix Suns
2004 - Voshon Lenard, Denver Nuggets
2003 - Peja Stojaković, Sacramento Kings
2002 - Peja Stojaković, Sacramento Kings
2001 - Ray Allen, Milwaukee Bucks
2000 - Jeff Hornacek, Utah Jazz
1999 - Canceled due to lockout
1998 - Jeff Hornacek, Utah Jazz
1997 - Steve Kerr, Chicago Bulls
1996 - Tim Legler, Washington Bullets
1995 - Glen Rice, Miami Heat
1994 - Mark Price, Cleveland Cavaliers
1993 - Mark Price, Cleveland Cavaliers
1992 - Craig Hodges, Chicago Bulls
1991 - Craig Hodges, Chicago Bulls
1990 - Craig Hodges, Chicago Bulls
1989 - Dale Ellis, Seattle SuperSonics
1988 - Larry Bird, Boston Celtics
1987 - Larry Bird, Boston Celtics
1986 - Larry Bird, Boston Celtics

[whottt]

:lmao


Barry haters....


You guys slay me....

[Obstructed_View]

Barry was never a 3 point champ
But because I love* you so much, now he is:
Ta Daaaaa
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/GeneralPurpose/Spurstalk/Barrry3pointchamp.jpg






*but not in an unnatural or creepy way, like the way you love Brent Barry.

[NO LIMIT ARMY COMMANDER]

Private whottt, for sheer incompetence and dereliction of reason you are hereby dismissed from the SNLA.

[Obstructed_View]

What a fucking douche bag you are...


Read, learn...believe me when I say this...read and learn...one of us does not know as much as the other and has just kicked their own ass severely. I am telling you this for your own good. Read and learn...before you go any further.
Just keep repeating that to yourself over and over. It won't make me care what you think. At all.

[NO LIMIT ARMY COMMANDER]

But because I love* you so much, now he is:
Ta Daaaaa
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/GeneralPurpose/Spurstalk/Barrry3pointchamp.jpg






*but not in an unnatural or creepy way, like the way you love Brent Barry.

Private Obstructed_View, for meritorious service you are hereby promoted to Captain and Art Director of the SNLA.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

NLAC is EXACTLY what this thread needed. Good to see you getting the troops in order, sir!

[whottt]

Just keep repeating that to yourself over and over. It won't make me care what you think. At all.


You go ahead and do that...be my guest.


:lmao

[whottt]

Fuck the NLAC and the horse he rode in on...fairweather bitch hasn't been here all season anyway...

[Obstructed_View]

You go ahead and do that...be my guest.


:lmao
Thank you. Your permission to continue to not care what you think means oodles to me. Really.

[whottt]

Thank you. Your permission to continue to not care what you think means oodles to me. Really.



Hey...live and let live(in ignorance) I always say...

[whottt]

Fact - Michael Finley hit the go-ahead three to put the Spurs up two with 15 seconds left in a must-win game 4 in Dallas in the 06 WCSF.

Fact - Michael Finley completely trapped Dirk Nowitzki in the corner and forced him into a horrible fading Hail Mary to try to even the score with 7 seconds left in game 6.

Fact - Michael Finley made a three to bring the Spurs to within one point with 1:45 to go in game 7 of the 2006 WCSF with Dallas.

Fact - Michael Finley averaged 13.5 ppg on 55.6% shooting (and 47.1% from beyond the arc) in games 4-7 of the 2006 series with Dallas.

Fact - Michael Finley did hit in fact hit a gamewinning shot to give Dallas game 1 of the 2003 WCF. Certainly that game had to mean something.

Fact - Stephen Jackson missed an open three that would have won game 2 of the 2003 Finals. Therefore, he also sucks by whoott logic.

Wow, you're going to hold a shot with 4 seconds left in an 8-point game against Finley? :lol

What a fucking hater you are.



That's not why I hate Finley...it is however why I ultimately view him a choker.

The reason I hate Finley is because...

A. He was the heart and soul of the Mavs. I don't whore myself out as easily as you guys do.

B. He was a worse Bowen whiner than Ray Allen. Again...I don't whore myself out as easily as you guys do.

C. He did turn cancerous in Dallas. And that's the main reason they let him go.

D. We added him to a championship team and becamse his old team's bitch. Call it krma or whatever you want...but just don't say it didn't happen.



I don't hate players I consider to be chokers...I just don't particularly like them on the court int he last seconds of big games.


I consider Finley to the direst of thse types of threats because he is hte type that will earn the trust to be on the court...only to let you down.



You can seach the forum and see the day we signed Michael Finley...I said the exact same thing I am saying now...and that's exactly what he did against the Mavs.

I said he's a good enough player to demand those minutes and to be on the court in that situation...and that's when he burns you. And that's exactly what he did...that was a difference between that team being a Mav bitch, and the 05 team that was a champ...the only thing we added was Finley and Van E.

[Holt's Cat]

Sure, you ran down Finley because you thought he was a threat to your crush's PT. You were correct on that count.

[whottt]

And I was also correct that it would cost us a repeat.

[baseline bum]

And I was also correct that it would cost us a repeat.

How the fuck did it cost us the repeat, when Finley was one of the best players on the team in that series? He was certainly the best player outside of the main core of Parker/Ginobili/Duncan.

[whottt]

How the fuck did it cost us the repeat, when Finley was one of the best players on the team in that series? He was certainly the best player outside of the main core of Parker/Ginobili/Duncan.


Because if hadn't been on the team Pop would have likely started playing Oberto then, and going with the defensive orianted scheme that has produced 3 tiles(really 4) instead of trying to win with small ball...

[baseline bum]

Because if hadn't been on the team Pop would have likely started playing Oberto then, and going with the defensive orianted scheme that has produced 3 tiles(really 4) instead of trying to win with small ball...

So your fucking beef should be with Pop and not Finley if that's what you believe.

[Holt's Cat]

What cost the Spurs a repeat was the inability to stop the Mavs' O due to Nowitzki at the 4 and the defensive ability of Harris and Diop to limit Parker's penetration. Who was the mastermind behind that? That's right.

Why'd the Spurs have a problem guarding Nowitzki when they had not before? They dealt the guy who could guard him 1 on 1 in a cost cutting move.

[whottt]

So your fucking beef should be with Pop and not Finley if that's what you believe.


No...my beef is with Finley for playing good enough to convince us that it might work...that's what he does.

[baseline bum]

No...my beef is with Finley for playing good enough to convince us that it might work...that's what he does.

So you basically hate Finley for not playing like Brent Barry did in that series?

[whottt]

What cost the Spurs a repeat was the inability to stop the Mavs' O due to Nowitzki at the 4 and the defensive ability of Harris and Diop to limit Parker's penetration. Who was the mastermind behind that? That's right.


We don't know for sure Oberto wouldn't have made a difference...he guarded Dirk well in the 6 minutes of PT he got...and Pop he even said he earned more minutes with that performance(that he never got).


Instead Pop went with the experienced vet...and small ball.





Why'd the Spurs have a problem guarding Nowitzki when they had not before? They dealt the guy who could guard him 1 on 1 in a cost cutting move.

Well Mr. Bryant...on that one we agree :tu

[Holt's Cat]

No...my beef is with Finley for playing good enough to convince us that it might work...that's what he does.


So Finley's thrown into playing out of position and it's his fault? Funny how the king of perimeter defense Brenda Barry wasn't considered.

[whottt]

So you basically hate Finley for not playing like Brent Barry did in that series?



I don't hate him for that as I said earlier...but that is what he does.

And Brent didn't get anything but primarily garbage minutes in that series...


Laugh all you want, but he wouldn't have done a worse job gaurding Dirk than anyone else...it wasn't like we stopped Dirk.

[T Park]

Finley had nothing to do with winning that Denver and Phoenix series last year either BTW.

Forgot to mention that.

[baseline bum]

I don't hate him for that as I said earlier...but that is what he does.




The reason I hate Finley is because...

A. He was the heart and soul of the Mavs. I don't whore myself out as easily as you guys do.

B. He was a worse Bowen whiner than Ray Allen. Again...I don't whore myself out as easily as you guys do.

C. He did turn cancerous in Dallas. And that's the main reason they let him go.

D. We added him to a championship team and becamse his old team's bitch. Call it krma or whatever you want...but just don't say it didn't happen.


LMAO @ Part A. Especially considering you're one of the biggest Robert Horry fans on the board. Horry was part of two much more bitter rivals than Dallas ever has been, and Finley never smacked David Robinson in the nuts after losing a playoff game either.

B. Yeah, he whined about Bowen once in 05, and gave him an elbow into the stands. So what?

C. Yeah, real cancer :lmao



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2135039

"This is the hardest part of our business," said Donnie Nelson, the team's president of basketball operations. "Mike and I started out in Phoenix together, got reunited here and obviously he was a key part in rebuilding this franchise. ... To share memories like that, it's been a very difficult several weeks for this franchise."

"Just what he's meant on and off the court, he's impacted every one from fans to the front office," Nelson said. "Ultimately, it's our responsibility to do what's in the best interest of the Dallas Mavericks, but Michael has a special place in Mark's heart, my heart, and a special place in the franchise. At the end of the day, this just feels right."

The Mavs avoid a dollar-for-dollar tax on Finley's $15.9 million salary for the 2005-06 season. The two-time All-Star is due $17.3 million and $18.6 million over the final two seasons of the seven-year contract he signed in 2001.


I bolded the parts that contradict your stupid argument to make it easier for you.

It had nothing to do with saving $51.8 million in payments to the league for a non-max guy on the tail end of a max contract?

So basically, you're full of fucking shit whottt, no matter how many times you try to get the last word in.

[whottt]

LMAO @ Part A. Especially considering you're one of the biggest Robert Horry fans on the board. Horry was part of two much more bitter rivals than Dallas ever has been, and Finley never smacked David Robinson in the nuts after losing a playoff game either.

B. Yeah, he whined about Bowen once in 05, and gave him an elbow into the stands. So what?

C. Yeah, real cancer :lmao


And if Finley had done as much to us as Robert Horry had...I'd definitely be a Finley fan. With Horry it was a case of screaming mercy and not wanting to see him on an opposing team ever again, if only for his Duncan D...not even close to that with Finley...get serious.

I finally conceded it was better to have Robert Horry with you than against you..


I hated Robert Horry until I saw the Lakers might lose him. Never felt that way about Finley. And I don't like Bowen whiners...

Do you like Ray Allen's whining?


Well Finley did it too...tried to get Bruce in trouble too.


Say what you want about Brent but he got his ass kicked by Bruce worse than any of those guys and never whined once about it...he just shut up and played.






I bolded the parts that contradict your stupid argument to make it easier for you.

It had nothing to do with saving $51.8 million in payments to the league for a non-max guy on the tail end of a max contract?

So basically, you're full of fucking shit whottt, no matter how many times you try to get the last word in.


I bet if I search real hard I can find all of you mofos calling Cuban out for being stupid about his payroll...it wasn't his major concern....until he realized he had a team that couldn't win a title.

[baseline bum]

Was Nash a cancer too? Is that why Cuban didn't give him $60 million?

[duncan228]

An off topic but weird fact.
baseline bum and whottt joined SpursTalk on the same day.
(This debate got me curious so I looked.)

[whottt]

An off topic but weird fact.
baseline bum and whottt joined SpursTalk on the same day.
(This debate got me curious so I looked.)



Not true...base was around years before I was...and he was probably at FullSportPress(what this site was called before ST) before me...

If we have the same day he definitely got jobbed...because timvp and kori jobbed me on heavily on my join date from EZ board.

base was the last remaining guy that was fun to argue with at SR when I came to FullSportPress(even though I'm pretty sure he thought I was a complete idiot).....

[whottt]

Was Nash a cancer too? Is that why Cuban didn't give him $60 million?



Nah...but I think it was a clear case of them thinking Nash wasn't good enough to win a title with, too soft, not enough d...and was probably going to start breaking down...I mean do you blame the Mavs for not thinking he was going to pull off back to back MVP's in his mid 30's? I don't...

If they'd won a title Nash and Finley would both still be there IMO.


Cuban wasn't willing to pay that tax for a team that wasn't producing wins...especially when he was getting beaten by a fiscally responsible team. But he was and is a free spender at heart...it was Finley he gave up on.

[duncan228]

Not true...base was around years before I was...and he was probably at FullSportPress(what this site was called before ST) before me...

If we have the same day he definitely got jobbed...because timvp and kori jobbed me on heavily on my join date from EZ board.

base was the last remaining guy that was fun to argue with at SR when I came to FullSportPress(even though I'm pretty sure he thought I was a complete idiot).....

I believe you, the history before ST I've learned, not lived.

For what it's worth you both have the same join date here.