Ohio Debate

[Holt's Cat]

He doesn't have to, but it would be nice to see Obama deliver a coup de grâce to Her Majesty in the debate tonight.

[AFBlue]

He doesn't have to, but it would be nice to see Obama deliver a coup de grâce to Her Majesty in the debate tonight.


I bet she reaches across the aisle....to strangle him.

It's gonna be fun to watch.... :corn:

[Mr. Peabody]

He doesn't have to, but it would be nice to see Obama deliver a coup de grâce to Her Majesty in the debate tonight.

He just needs to give her enough rope to let her hang herself. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts the debate being nice to her and trying to bait her into attacking him. When HRC goes into that attack mode people remember why they don't like her.

[Holt's Cat]

He just needs to give her enough rope to let her hang herself. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts the debate being nice to her and trying to bait her into attacking him. When HRC goes into that attack mode people remember why they don't like her.


That seems most likely. People like Obama because he's offering something other than the same old, same old. He can't be seen as too negative or as losing his cool. I'd say it's his public poise moreso than his rhetorical skill that is his best asset.

OK, maybe not a silver bullet, but a few swift digs at her would be nice.

[ChumpDumper]

Putting together clips of Hillary talking about Obama from the past week makes her look like she has multiple personality disorder.

[Evan]

He just needs to give her enough rope to let her hang herself. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts the debate being nice to her and trying to bait her into attacking him. When HRC goes into that attack mode people remember why they don't like her.

I can see this.

[Evan]

Putting together clips of Hillary talking about Obama from the past week makes her look like she has multiple personality disorder.

Or a politician’s politician

[ChumpDumper]

Or a politician’s politicianFlailing and failing.

[boutons_]

"Overall, Clinton’s lead is now just five percentage points in Ohio, down from an eight-point advantage last week and fourteen points two weeks ago."

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/ohio/ohio_democratic_presidential_primary

It was said she need to win TX and OH very big to put her over top. She may win the votes n both, but it looks like "very big" ain't gonna happen.

Obama's the nominee.

The Repug/Swift-boat Slime Machine is warming up.

[Evan]

The Repug/Swift-boat Slime Machine is warming up.

Backtracking ahoy over the 100 year war cometh

[Oh, Gee!!]

When HRC goes into that attack mode people remember why they don't like her.

Married men around the world cringe when they hear that nagging, shrill voice.

[PixelPusher]

Married men around the world cringe when they hear that nagging, shrill voice.
nagging? shrill?

Shame on you, Oh, Gee!! SHAME ON YOU!!!

[Oh, Gee!!]

nagging? shrill?

Shame on you, Oh, Gee!! SHAME ON YOU!!!


it's like nails on a chalkboard

[Evan]

it's like nails on a chalkboard

and high heels to the crotch

[Holt's Cat]

She just referenced last weekend's SNL skit. :spin

[Mr. Peabody]

She just referenced last weekend's SNL skit. :spin

What was she thinking when she did that? Her campaign must have cringed.....

[Holt's Cat]

I think she wants to relieve Tim Russert of his cock and balls. At least that's what I could glean from her stare.

[Holt's Cat]

NAFTA. It's someone else's fault per Her Majesty.

Pakistan now.

[Mr. Peabody]

It may just be my Obama-colored glasses, but this debate is reinforcing what people to like about Hillary. She's shouting people down, filibustering, and equivocating. Not her best performance.

[possessed]

She's a barracuda.

[Holt's Cat]

It may just be my Obama-colored glasses, but this debate is reinforcing what people to like about Hillary. She's shouting people down, filibustering, and equivocating. Not her best performance.


She doesn't like being challenged and it shows. Russert is pissing her off.

[Holt's Cat]

Bryan Williams just shut her down for the commercial break.

[Mr. Peabody]

Bryan Williams just shut her down for the commercial break.

She's not just antagonistic to Obama, she's trying to be antagonistic to the moderators.

Her problem is that she's trying to work an attack on Obama into every response and the moderators are not letting her do it.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

These candidates are such mirror images of each other landing a coup de grace or silver bullet is impossible.

[Mr. Peabody]

These candidates are such mirror images of each other landing a coup de grace or silver bullet is impossible.

They are close on policy, but on approach and personality, they are pretty different.

[possessed]

Obama doesn't sound nearly as smooth when somebody hasn't prepared his words for him. He's fumbling through some of these answers.

Hillary sounds like a bitch, albeit a well spoken, better prepared bitch.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

They are close on policy, but on approach and personality, they are pretty different.

Naaaaaturally. But I mean in the context of this debate, its impossible for anyone to nail the other because as far as the words coming out of their mouths, they are agreeing on the most important issues.

[Holt's Cat]

Now Obama looks like he wants to deck Russert.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Obama doesn't sound nearly as smooth when somebody hasn't prepared his words for him. He's fumbling through some of these answers.

Hillary sounds like a bitch, albeit a well spoken, better prepared bitch.


I posted about this in the Hilary thread in the Club. Obama stumbles and fumbles his words constantly in these debates, I realize why he kept dodging debates.

[Holt's Cat]

Well, it's somewhat standard for the frontrunner to seek to restrict debating their opponents.

[JoeChalupa]

Okay. So how will Barack's denouncement..err, rejection of Farakhan's endorsement hurt him?

[Mr. Peabody]

I posted about this in the Hilary thread in the Club. Obama stumbles and fumbles his words constantly in these debates, I realize why he kept dodging debates.

He does fumble through these debates at times and they are not his best forum.

[JoeChalupa]

I posted about this in the Hilary thread in the Club. Obama stumbles and fumbles his words constantly in these debates, I realize why he kept dodging debates.

I don't see it that way at all. He is doing well.

[Mr. Peabody]

Okay. So how will Barack's denouncement..err, rejection of Farakhan's endorsement hurt him?

Well, I think the conversation about Farrakhan probably went on longer than Obama would have liked.

[JoeChalupa]

Quite a few peiople use the "uh" without knowing it. Just sounds more normal and natural to me. Is you try you'll notice it. Yes you can!!

[JoeChalupa]

Well, I think the conversation about Farrakhan probably went on longer than Obama would have liked.

I concur,

[Mr. Peabody]

I don't see it that way at all. He is doing well.

Well, he does fumble. I assumed it was because he was thinking his way through his answer and I don't know that "fumbling" is an issue that means much to anyone.

[Mr. Peabody]

Quite a few peiople use the "uh" without knowing it. Just sounds more normal and natural to me. Is you try you'll notice it. Yes you can!!

Well, using "uh" is a way of, uh, filling the conversation while you are thinking of what your next words will be. I catch myself doing it when I am trying to be precise in my wording during a conversation.

[JoeChalupa]

Well, using "uh" is a way of, uh, filling the conversation while you are thinking of what your next words will be. I catch myself doing it when I am trying to be precise in my wording during a conversation.

Uh, I get your point.

[JoeChalupa]

I just don't think it is a big deal..but uh, I could be wrong.

[Mr. Peabody]

Uh, I get your point.

Thank you for your precision in wording. :toast

[Mr. Peabody]

I just don't think it is a big deal..but uh, I could be wrong.

I agree. He reminds of the way some of my professors spoke. I think it's just a way for people to criticize someone who gets such high praise for his oratorical skills.

[JoeChalupa]

Seriosuly, does anyone think this is going to turn the Obamamentum around? Uh, I don't think so. At least I don't see it that way so far.

[JoeChalupa]

Well....uh, there you go again.......

[PixelPusher]

I thought it was a wash...which is a net win for Obama.

[Mr. Peabody]

Well....uh, there you go again.......

Not quite. I wish there were some memorable lines from this debate. I think the most memorable moment was when Hillary cited SNL as evidence of journalistic bias.

[SA210]

Obama doesn't sound nearly as smooth when somebody hasn't prepared his words for him.

[JoeChalupa]

I thought it was a wash...which is a net win for Obama.

I concur. There was no knockout punch.

[JoeChalupa]

The moment is now.

[BonnerDynasty]

Denounce or reject!?!?!?!?

That depends what your definition of IS is.





Booooyah!

[possessed]

lol @ the Clinton honk on MSNBC that thinks this debate was a home run for Hillary.

Crack is a helluva drug.

[mikejones99]

50 to 44 obama wins

[AFBlue]

50 to 44 obama wins

My two (hundred) cents....

Hillary did deliver her message as a "fighter", but her performance was a mixed bag. At times she looked petty and pissy (re: SNL comment and 16-min healthcare debate), while at other times she drove home the point and looked strong.

Agree with some other posters that she didn't deliver any knockouts, which is a net loss for her.

I actually thought this was Obama's best debate, though I admittedly haven't seen all 20. There were some very pointed and controversial questions directed at him last night and he did well to deflect or answer the majority of them.

He made the most headway in the discussion over foreign policy I think. While Hillary dodged the hypothetical about going back into Iraq if it became a haven for al-Queda, he answered it strongly and directly.

I think that might turn some people off who consider him the "talking" candidate, because it sounded a bit hawkish (suggesting unilateral action in another sovereign "cuntreh"), but at least he took a stand and wasn't dismissive.

IMO, he had three weak moments....

First, the Farrakhan issue, which I think was a minor point. Obama seemed hesitant to reject his support at first, but upon further prodding, he flipped and conseded.

Second and larger snafu, was his position on public financing for the general election. For such a "principled" man, he sure sounded iffy on following through with a promise that he made to accept public financing. You can bet that if he wins the nomination, sits down with McCain, and opts out of the public financing it will be a MAJOR talking point in the general election. His answer inspired zero confidence that he would stand on principle, so I think it was a big hit.

Finally, and I think most importantly....his passive style against a stronger, more vocal opponent can be construed as weakness. There was one instance where he tried to deliver his point but was consistently interrupted by Clinton. Instead of waiting until she was finished then delivering a zinger like "after all that I'm sure we're about to run into another commercial break, but I'd like to make my point", he ended up repeating his first retort line like 5 or 6 times and looking foolish.

If Obama isn't careful, I think two of those three weak points will be exposed and exploited in the general election if he gets the nomination.

Still, I think this was a win for Obama, and though there were no knockout punches, I actually think he made headway in the CinC department.

[DarkReign]

The only thing I got out of this "debate" were cringe-inducing moments where the mod (Williams?) would play a clip of something one of them said on the campaign trail, then ask them to clarify.

Didnt seem like much of a debate. More like a battle of soundbytes.

[E20]

Barack was more calm, Hilary attacked Barack on numerous occassions. I liked it when Hilary had a minor quarrel with the fat guy (Tim). :lol

[BonnerDynasty]

It's amazing how easily she gets to sidestep questions and they mediators don't even ask her the same god damn question AGAIN.

[nkdlunch]

hillary is done

[AFBlue]

The only thing I got out of this "debate" were cringe-inducing moments where the mod (Williams?) would play a clip of something one of them said on the campaign trail, then ask them to clarify.

Didnt seem like much of a debate. More like a battle of soundbytes.

In fairness to Williams, the segment you're referring to was shot from the hip because the production team played the wrong soundbite. He had to generate some kind of conversation while they pulled up the right one.

Also, I think the ramped up rhetoric of the past few days was starkly in contrast to their debate the week before and they were attempting to draw out some of the issues brought up post-CNN debate.

[Holt's Cat]

I think it was appropriate that they brought up what she had said about Obama outside of the last debate, as well as the picture flap. Often candidates aren't called out on those sorts of items and I think it's quite relevant to make the audience aware of just what they are willing to do to become the nominee or the officeholder. If a Republican's campaign had circulated that photo right now you'd see them condemned for fearmongering and insensitivity. But a Demo did it so it's kosher.

Obama's done a great job in this campaign letting Hillary expose herself. The Clintons are not going to go away quietly. Maybe they decide to pack it in after disappointing results next Tuesday. Maybe. In 2012, McCain would be 110 years old. But you wouldn't necessarily have the guarantee of the same weak and uncertain economic environment as well as such a disliked incumbent administration as you do now. If Obama wins then the Democrat party is his party and the Clintons can no longer lay claim to being the standard bearers of the party. For these reasons, if they are to win, the time is now.

I suspect that Obama will win in TX and Ohio, but the margins will be tight enough that Clinton will be able to justify another 6 weeks of campaigning before the Pennsylvania primary. There is always the possibility that Obama will commit a major gaffe or some nasty revelation will hit his campaign. And hey, what else does she have to do right now?

[G-Nob]

SHe needs to step aside after March 4th. If she barely wins TX and OH, its going to get very ugly. She'll be angling for the delegates to count in MI & FL. And that will get all kinds of civil right activists up in arms. Not to mention this could go to the floor of the convention and can you say "division"? Mathematically, she can't win unless she wins by enormous margins.

[Ocotillo]

Her personality was a negative last night. She looked hostile during much of the debate and bringing up the "first question" issue was petty and reflected poorly. She needed a "home run" and took a base on balls.

Obama came across as cool and measured. His worse moment was the Farrakan discussion but he likely won't suffer any damage from it.

Suprise, suprise.. Farrakan is supporting the African-American in an election. Next.

[florige]

Her personality was a negative last night. She looked hostile during much of the debate and bringing up the "first question" issue was petty and reflected poorly. She needed a "home run" and took a base on balls.

Obama came across as cool and measured. His worse moment was the Farrakan discussion but he likely won't suffer any damage from it.

Suprise, suprise.. Farrakan is supporting the African-American in an election. Next.



I would have loved to see the look on Obama's face when he heard that he had his support.

[florige]

For some reason I have Hillary taking both Ohio and Texas. Everytime she seems to be dead in the water she always seems to pull out the wins she really needs.

[Mr. Peabody]

For some reason I have Hillary taking both Ohio and Texas. Everytime she seems to be dead in the water she always seems to pull out the wins she really needs.

I think there is a good chance she takes both. However, I don't think she can win them as big as it would take to get her the nomination.

Right now on Intrade, there is a good bet going. It's called the Hillary Lifeline. The bet is that she wins Ohio, Texas, and Pennsylvania. Currently, it's $15 to win $100. It's not a bad bet seeing as how she is leading in most polls in all three states. Hell, the night before the New Hampshire primary, Intrade had Hillary at $5 to win the primary. Someone made good money on that bet.

Actually, the better bet might be Hillary to win Texas. She leads in the polls and is $25 to win.

The scary thing about the Hillary Lifeline bet is that unless she blows out Obama next Tuesday, she is likely to be out of the race by the time Pennsylvania rolls around.

[Holt's Cat]

Perhaps a more appropriate moniker for that trade is "forestalling the inevitable."

But is a prolonged Democratic primary necessarily a bad thing for Senator Obama's candidacy in the general election? Sure, it would mean that Obama would have to expend time and resources repelling two opponents at the same time, but the attention garnered by the race is a net positive for the Democrats up to this point. McCain is struggling to garner the same level of interest sitting on the sidelines while waiting for his opponent to be determined. In addition, with Obama running against the candidate with the highest negative personal ratings out of the 3 remaining candidates it can't but help him starkly contrast his message of change.

The downside is that she's already taken the gloves off and the claws are out. Sooner or later he may experience more than a few scratches while McCain takes a breather. Plus there is the prospect that the Democratic race snowballs into a negative piss filled clusterfuck with an outcome that ends up disillusioning a significant block of Democratic support. And there is, of course, the off chance that the Clintons figure out a way to steal the nomination. Think about the opportunity lost when that happens. And there stands Senator McCain.

[Mr. Peabody]

Perhaps a more appropriate moniker for that trade is "forestalling the inevitable."

But is a prolonged Democratic primary necessarily a bad thing for Senator Obama's candidacy in the general election? Sure, it would mean that Obama would have to expend time and resources repelling two opponents at the same time, but the attention garnered by the race is a net positive for the Democrats up to this point. McCain is struggling to garner the same level of interest sitting on the sidelines while waiting for his opponent to be determined. In addition, with Obama running against the candidate with the highest negative personal ratings out of the 3 remaining candidates it can't but help him starkly contrast his message of change.

The downside is that she's already taken the gloves off and the claws are out. Sooner or later he may experience more than a few scratches while McCain takes a breather. Plus there is the prospect that the Democratic race snowballs into a negative piss filled clusterfuck with an outcome that ends up disillusioning a significant block of Democratic support. And there is, of course, the off chance that the Clintons figure out a way to steal the nomination. Think about the opportunity lost when that happens. And there stands Senator McCain.

I do think that the longer the primary goes on, the more ardent the supporters of each candidate become and as such, the harder it will be for the eventual nominee to unify the people voting Democratic in the primaries. At this point many of the supporters have been backing their candidate for months and months. It's harder to sever those ties after so much time.