Mavericks new Duncan stopper???

[smahmood26]

I just saw on ESPNEWS that they will reportedly sign Jamall Magloire. Just keeps getting better.

[td4mvp21]

Magloire is a Duncan stopper?

[SenorSpur]

Damn. The Mavs acquired a Duncan stopper just as the Spurs let go of their "Dirk stopper" When it rains it pours.

[timmy21_4rings]

I see

[VaSpursFan]

jamal magliorre a duncan stopper? you cannot be serious :lol :lol :lol

the mavs are a mess :smokin

[degenerate_gambler]

there's a reason he was buried on the Nets bench..

[2centsworth]

Magloire hasn't shown signs of life in about 5 to 6 years. I would say this signing is right up there with the Kevin Willis signing.

[Dirkgreatness]

Except, that Magloire is only 29.

[crc2120]

Duncan stopper my ass! :lol

:lol at Mav's fans jumping for joy over this signing...no biggie....

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Magloire a Duncan stopper? Maybe in 1999.

[SenorSpur]

Except, that Magloire is only 29.

...and he hasn't displayed an NBA pulse since he was 26.

Is there any wonder that Toronto and Orlando both passed on him.

[Dirkgreatness]

It's not like we're proclaming hes going to be the savior for the Mavs. Hes going to be the back up center. And hes signing for the veteran's minimum so i don't see why this is such a big deal..

[hater]

Dallas wants to have the Js again. Jason, Jamal, Jason, Jerry

[Dirkgreatness]

Dallas wants to have the Js again. Jason, Jamal, Jason, Jerry

You forgot JJ Barea.

[S_A_Longhorn]

Wow, any Mav fans really think Cuban isn't the Jerry Jones of the NBA anymore?

Not signing PJ Brown for those childish reasons yet trading away Diop and now signing this stiff? Why not just forfeit the series if the play the Spurs?!

[Findog]

In total impact, he's equal to Diop. They both have 6 fouls to give. Diop is a better shotblocker. Maglioire can actually score on the lowblocks, whereas Diop is a complete nonentity on offense. They're equally good rebounders. Diop was playing 15-20 minutes a game, and that's all we'll be asking out of Magloire.

Nobody is a Duncan stopper, the whole point of having bigs like Dampier and Magloire is that you don't have to double Duncan all the time.

[gospursgojas]

Diop was more of a Duncan stopper than Magloire.

But seriously is there such a thing as a Duncan stopper???

[Findog]

Wow, any Mav fans really think Cuban isn't the Jerry Jones of the NBA anymore?

Not signing PJ Brown for those childish reasons yet trading away Diop and now signing this stiff? Why not just forfeit the series if the play the Spurs?!

PJ Brown probably isn't coming back, and if he does, it's with NOLA. Cuban knows that. I'm sure Magloire being on an active roster and practicing all year long means his conditioning is better than Brown anyways.

[td4mvp21]

PJ Brown probably isn't coming back, and if he does, it's with NOLA. Cuban knows that. I'm sure Magloire being on an active roster and practicing all year long means his conditioning is better than Brown anyways.

I agree. Basically, it's just an extra body to throw out there against tough frontcourts.

[smahmood26]

Of course I was kidding. That is why I said ," it keeps getting better". I guess it is hard to convey sarcasim over the internet.

[Budkin]

Diop was more of a Duncan stopper than Magloire.

But seriously is there such a thing as a Duncan stopper???

If there was it was Diop. He always played great D on Timmy.

[Dirkgreatness]

there's a reason he was buried on the Nets bench..

Diop was the same way but he turned out to be pretty valuable.

[Cry Havoc]

Damn. The Mavs acquired a Duncan stopper just as the Spurs let go of their "Dirk stopper" When it rains it pours.

:lmao

Your sarcasm is perfect.

:lmao

[gospursgojas]

If there was it was Diop. He always played great D on Timmy.

Yeah I'll give him OT of Game 7 of the 06 semis, but Tim's tank was more than empty

[Solid D]

Magliore had a nice showing against Timmy when the Spurs played in Portland. Basically, any Big that has extra long arms and a solid base gives Timmy trouble. A stopper? Not hardly. Extra degree of difficulty, yes. But....nothing Tim cannot figure out.

[Cry Havoc]

Is there anything that's a true "Duncan-stopper" in this league? Kurt Thomas is as close as it gets, and we know who he plays for. :)

Really, Diop has a reputation of shutting down Timmy because he took him out of an overtime on completely fresh legs when Duncan was absolutely exhausted.

That being said, I still don't see how the Mavs are going to guard Timmy. Even if they put Damp/Mags on him, it's going to leave a LOT of weak-side o-boards open for KT and Fabs to cherry pick.

[LEONARD]

Magloire hasn't shown signs of life in about 5 to 6 years. I would say this signing is right up there with the Kevin Willis signing.

His best seasons were 3 and 4 yrs ago actually (all-star in 03-04)...and 2 seasons ago he avg'd 9 and 9, which is decent. I'm just sayin'. Has nothing to do with how he'll impact the Mavs now, but maybe you were thinking of somebody else?


Magloire a Duncan stopper? Maybe in 1999.

in college?


...and he hasn't displayed an NBA pulse since he was 26.

9/9 two season ago when he was 27...

[hater]

I thought he had retired along with KVH

[Cry Havoc]

9/9 two season ago when he was 27...

In 35 minutes? With the ~17.5 minutes he'll see now, he'll be lucky to get 5/5.

[LEONARD]

30

And I think 5/5 would be fine with the Mavs...

[td4mvp21]

30

And I think 5/5 would be fine with the Mavs...

I think that's all they want, it's not like they are looking for a savior in Magloire. Their F/C position, if you're going by traditional standards, is weak. Dirk and Bass aren't your typical power forwards. Dampier is the only legit big man they have right now, no?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

:lmao

Magloire, at his best, was a decent OFFENSIVE threat. He has never been much of a defender.

The are looking to sign 6 fouls.

:rolleyes

[LEONARD]

I think that's all they want, it's not like they are looking for a savior in Magloire. Their F/C position, if you're going by traditional standards, is weak. Dirk and Bass aren't your typical power forwards. Dampier is the only legit big man they have right now, no?

Exactly...I doubt if they're even looking for 5/5. They just need a backup center because Dirk and Bass are not...

Mavs fans that act like this is a big deal are idiots...

Spurs fans that act like this is a big deal are idiots...

[Findog]

It's a good pickup. It basically cancels out the loss of Diop, although their skillset is different. I would've loved to have had Kurt Thomas, but we didn't have any expirings or picks to get him. Magloire is as good as its going to get on the waiver wire this time of the year. He's not a savior, but I feel a lot better about our playoff chances now that we have some foul trouble/injury insurance for Damp.

[Obstructed_View]

Let the Mavs fans rejoice. They just found out today that there's an excellent chance their team could soon be the second best team in Texas.

[Findog]

Also, there's no hurt in tossing our hat in the Barry sweepstakes ring, but he's going back to the Spurs. Flip Murray would be a nice pickup for our final roster spot.

[Findog]

Let the Mavs fans rejoice. They just found out today that there's an excellent chance their team could soon be the second best team in Texas.

Seriously, we should just forfeit Thursday's game. Timmy is going to hang 60 on Damp and Magloire, and Parker is going to score just as much on Kidd.

Spurs 157, Mavs 83. Book it!

[SpurOutofTownFan]

jamal magliorre a duncan stopper? you cannot be serious :lol :lol :lol

the mavs are a mess :smokin

I agree with this.. they are a mess on and off the court. I don't know how long Cuban will be able to sustain the level of spending without winning anything.

[Findog]

I would say our biggest problem right now is how much more turnover-prone we are with Kidd. We had like 22 last night. That will kill you against a team like San Antonio. Some of those turnovers are from teammates fumbling passes they're not used to receiving, and some of it is Kidd's aggressiveness in the open floor leading to botched fastbreaks. I think the latter is something you're going to have to live with when it comes to Kidd, and the former in time will get corrected.

[LEONARD]

Let the Mavs fans rejoice. They just found out today that there's an excellent chance their team could soon be the second best team in Texas.

I guess I've missed all the rejoicing, despite having sports talk radio on all day...

Like I said...Spurs fans that make more of this than what it is are idiots...right along with any Mavs fan that thinks JM will bring a lot to the table...

[Obstructed_View]

Seriously, we should just forfeit Thursday's game. Timmy is going to hang 60 on Damp and Magloire, and Parker is going to score just as much on Kidd.

Spurs 157, Mavs 83. Book it!
Nah, the Mavs are built for the regular season, especially now. I suppose I have to be afraid of Jason Kidd because Randy Galloway says Devin Harris is shit, or because you try to act like Magliore is going to step right in and do everything Diop did. I've certainly got no problem telling you your team is well above average and should have little difficulty making the playoffs in the western conference, and could seriously contend for a spot in the conference semifinals.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

It's a good pickup. It basically cancels out the loss of Diop, although their skillset is different. I would've loved to have had Kurt Thomas, but we didn't have any expirings or picks to get him. Magloire is as good as its going to get on the waiver wire this time of the year. He's not a savior, but I feel a lot better about our playoff chances now that we have some foul trouble/injury insurance for Damp.

:lmao

"...cancels out the loss of Diop..." No it doesn't! Magloire can't slow down Duncan in any sense, and that's exactly what Diop did. He is a stopgap backup centre and that's it. He might score a bucket or two, but Duncan will treat him like paper towel. Good luck with that.

[Obstructed_View]

I would say our biggest problem right now is how much more turnover-prone we are with Kidd. We had like 22 last night. That will kill you against a team like San Antonio. Some of those turnovers are from teammates fumbling passes they're not used to receiving, and some of it is Kidd's aggressiveness in the open floor leading to botched fastbreaks. I think the latter is something you're going to have to live with when it comes to Kidd, and the former in time will get corrected.
Like you said, some of those turnovers are guys not looking up. In number of games before Kidd bloodies a teammates nose with the ball, I'll take the under. That said, defense is going to become a problem without Harris and Diop, and size is going to be a problem in the west, and Magliore helps, but not much.

[bigfan]

Magloire hasn't shown signs of life in about 5 to 6 years. I would say this signing is right up there with the Kevin Willis signing.

Tell you the truth theyd be better off resigning Willis today.

[oboymeetsogirl]

Magliore is no better and no worse than anyone at "stopping" TD. The Mavs' fate will rest upon the passing creativity of Kidd (sooner or later the rest of the team will adjust to his out-of-nowhere feeds), Dirk's jumper, and how well AJ will get his guys to play team D. Against the Spurs, they'll get Magliore will use up his 6 fouls and it will be an endless parade of TD foul shots. It's a good thing he's looking better at the line this year.

Advantage: still belongs to the Spurs.

[2centsworth]

His best seasons were 3 and 4 yrs ago actually (all-star in 03-04)...and 2 seasons ago he avg'd 9 and 9, which is decent. I'm just sayin'. Has nothing to do with how he'll impact the Mavs now, but maybe you were thinking of somebody else?

it was a slight exageration. 2 seasons ago he average 9 and 9, very impressive.:lol

[LEONARD]

it was a slight exageration. 2 seasons ago he average 9 and 9, very impressive.:lol

Slight?

Who said 9/9 was impressive?

[endrity]

Magliore is no better and no worse than anyone at "stopping" TD. The Mavs' fate will rest upon the passing creativity of Kidd (sooner or later the rest of the team will adjust to his out-of-nowhere feeds), Dirk's jumper, and how well AJ will get his guys to play team D. Against the Spurs, they'll get Magliore will use up his 6 fouls and it will be an endless parade of TD foul shots. It's a good thing he's looking better at the line this year.

Advantage: still belongs to the Spurs.

word,

people have overhyped what Diop did in OT of game 7. It was Damp that eventually wore down Duncan, and he is still here. I really don't see where this Spurs arrogance towards the Mavs is coming from. Harris is not here, but if you have seen any of the games you would notice that the Mavs are much better defensively as a unit with Kidd. Kidd might have lost a step, and I am not that sure after watching him, but he positions himself very well. And Jet, Stack, Josh and most of all Dirk bring their best against the Spurs. Let's not forget that all of the matchup problems start with Dirk. Do you honestly play KT/Duncan as a frontline with Dirk. You think Thomas can stop him. Timmy 5 years from now is quicker than what KT is now. I am willing to bet that Pop goes small against us once again. If we meet in the playoffs it will again be dogfight, with 6 games being the bare minimum. There is nothing to prove that you are superior to the Mavs right now.

[Holt's Cat]

So Kidd will be in the position he should have been a half-second earlier as TP drives by? Great.

[Obstructed_View]

I think endrity means that the Mavs will play suffocating defense against every lottery team they face in the playoffs.

[mavsfan1000]

It's a good pickup. It basically cancels out the loss of Diop, although their skillset is different. I would've loved to have had Kurt Thomas, but we didn't have any expirings or picks to get him. Magloire is as good as its going to get on the waiver wire this time of the year. He's not a savior, but I feel a lot better about our playoff chances now that we have some foul trouble/injury insurance for Damp.
It DOESN'T cancel out the loss of Diop. Those that think Mags is equal to Diop are idiots. Mags is however a better option than Juwan Howard or Bass at center.

[Obstructed_View]

Mavs fans should consider it a good pickup if Magliore is a better option than Bass at any point.

[endrity]

So Kidd will be in the position he should have been a half-second earlier as TP drives by? Great.

We'll see. Kidd did really well against Paul, despite what was said. It was the switching on D that caused most of the confusion, and that happened because of guys learning to play together. The man was once considered a great defender, and if bowen can get it done at 35, there is no reason to think Kidd can't. He seems as fresh as ever to me.

Plus, the Kidd-TP matchup is one of the many things that would decide the series. What does TP do on defense v. Kidd? Do you have a new plan to stop Dirk?

Just because TP might win that matchup, that would hardly decide the series.

[endrity]

I think endrity means that the Mavs will play suffocating defense against every lottery team they face in the playoffs.

Do you know that those Nets teams that he took to the Finals were 1 in the league in def. efficency. Talk to any knowledgable Mavs fan, and they will tell you that the offense killed us in the playoffs, not the defense. Kidd was brought here to speed things us, and create better shots. Our defense will be fine, just as it has been under AJ, just as it was in 06 against the Spurs.

[Obstructed_View]

We'll see. Kidd did really well against Paul, despite what was said. It was the switching on D that caused most of the confusion, and that happened because of guys learning to play together.
I'm not sure what game you were watching, but I guess you missed Paul's nine steals.

[2centsworth]

Slight?

Who said 9/9 was impressive?btw, it was 3 seasons ago and his all-star appearances were 5-6 seasons ago. I wasn't that far off after all.

[endrity]

I'm not sure what game you were watching, but I guess you missed Paul's nine steals.


First, I was referring to Kidd defending Paul. Second, Paul leads the league in steals and TP does not. Third, Kidd and the Mavs in general were sloppy in their first game together WITHOUT any true practice before the game.

[Obstructed_View]

Talk to any knowledgable Mavs fan, and they will tell you that the offense killed us in the playoffs, not the defense.
Yeah, giving up 105 points a game to the Warriors was masterful. The Mavs' offense suffered because, harrangued by a harassing defense, they settled for jumpers. Kidd might help the Mavs play against the Warriors, but he doesn't improve their jump shooting when they decide they don't have the heart to go inside anymore.

[Obstructed_View]

First, I was referring to Kidd defending Paul.
Oh, I'm sorry. Allow me to rephrase: I guess you missed Paul's 31 points and 11 assists.



Second, Paul leads the league in steals and TP does not.
Well that has to make Kidd a better defender. :dizzy


Third, Kidd and the Mavs in general were sloppy in their first game together WITHOUT any true practice before the game.
I might submit that it has little significance, but don't act like it was somehow less ugly than it was.

[monosylab1k]

Yeah, giving up 105 points a game to the Warriors was masterful.
I'd love to know the Spurs genius plan for defending fadeaway 3's with 20 seconds on the shot clock.

[monosylab1k]

Oh, I'm sorry. Allow me to rephrase: I guess you missed Paul's 31 points and 11 assists.
Yeah he's never done that to anyone else.

[endrity]

Yeah, giving up 105 points a game to the Warriors was masterful. The Mavs' offense suffered because, harrangued by a harassing defense, they settled for jumpers. Kidd might help the Mavs play against the Warriors, but he doesn't improve their jump shooting when they decide they don't have the heart to go inside anymore.

Anybody gives that up against the warriors. The thing is that you should score 120 on their weak D. Plus if you actually watched the games, the mavs allowed so many fastbreak opportunities because they were taking bad shots on the offensive end. Kidd is probably the best at controlling Baron, always has been.

As for them not having the hearts to go inside, that's just idiotic man. Dirk really went inside against the Spurs I think. Go see what people have said in the NBA section. This never was a question of heart, they were outcoached, and out-thought. Their predictable offense caught up with them. It was Xs and Os, not a heart thing. The Mavs struggled against the Warriors way before that series ever began.

[Findog]

:lmao

"...cancels out the loss of Diop..." No it doesn't! Magloire can't slow down Duncan in any sense, and that's exactly what Diop did. He is a stopgap backup centre and that's it. He might score a bucket or two, but Duncan will treat him like paper towel. Good luck with that.

Didn't Duncan average 32 and 15 in that playoff series with Bill Russell (Diop) on him? Duncan being "shut down" isn't why you lost that series.

[Obstructed_View]

I'd love to know the Spurs genius plan for defending fadeaway 3's with 20 seconds on the shot clock.
Yeah, that's how they won. It was 288 minutes full of lucky circus three pointers.

If you'd like to know the genius plan, ask the Jazz.

[endrity]

Oh, I'm sorry. Allow me to rephrase: I guess you missed Paul's 31 points and 11 assists.



Well that has to make Kidd a better defender. :dizzy


I might submit that it has little significance, but don't act like it was somehow less ugly than it was.

Are you even reading? He didn't do that damage against Kidd, he did against other guys mostly.

No it doesn't make Kidd a better defender. The point that YOU were making, is that Kidd is vulnerable to steals by other quick guys. The debate was not about his defense.

The game was ugly, yet it was what to be expected. I'll take his 4th game with the Mavs as a much better proof of what he can do than his 1st, less than 24 hours after arriving in Dallas.

[Findog]

It DOESN'T cancel out the loss of Diop. Those that think Mags is equal to Diop are idiots. Mags is however a better option than Juwan Howard or Bass at center.

Diop is a complete non-entity on offense. Magloire is not. It isn't all about the Spurs. What good does it do to be a "Spurs killer" if you can't advance far enough into the playoffs to face them? I thought we traded DeSagana Diop to New Jersey, not Bill Russell. Last I checked, Tim Duncan threw 32 and 15 on us in that playoff series. Nobody is going to stop him, but Spurs fans are lying if they think Magloire is going to be significantly worse racking up 6 fouls in 15 minutes of burn.

[endrity]

Didn't Duncan average 32 and 15 in that playoff series with Bill Russell (Diop) on him? Duncan being "shut down" isn't why you lost that series.

Thank you.

The reason why you lost is wearing 41, and he is still in Dallas. Are you going small again, or are you going to waste KT's fouls as he tries to hang with Dirk on the perimeter before you ultimately go small again.

[monosylab1k]

This never was a question of heart, they were outcoached, and out-thought. Their predictable offense caught up with them. It was Xs and Os, not a heart thing.
let's not take this too far. Dirk deserves plenty of blame. He wasn't able to get the ball in his comfort zone, so he lost all aggressiveness. He let JET throw up bricks all game long. He never took charge.

Dirk's playoff failures outweight his playoff success, and only the biggest of Mavs homers can attempt to dispute that.

[monosylab1k]

If you'd like to know the genius plan, ask the Jazz.
I'm not so sure "watch them shoot 3's, except this time they miss" is much of a genius plan.

[Findog]

Yeah, giving up 105 points a game to the Warriors was masterful. The Mavs' offense suffered because, harrangued by a harassing defense, they settled for jumpers. Kidd might help the Mavs play against the Warriors, but he doesn't improve their jump shooting when they decide they don't have the heart to go inside anymore.

The Mavs won the high-scoring games in that series and they lost all the lower-scoring ones. They tried to slow the game down into a half-court game, when they should've been running with the Warriors.

[Findog]

The problem with Duncan is that you're never going to stop him. You can double him and let Manu and the other shooters get open looks from the perimeter, or you can let Duncan eat you alive in single coverage. With Dampier and Diop, the Mavs got away with foregoing the double team the whole game. They still doubled with Damp/Diop, but they were able to mix it up. Diop is a player of limited usefulness and so is Magloire. This is just as much about Phoenix and LA as it is San Antonio.

Giving up Harris and Diop despite their success against the Spurs was a tradeoff, but one the Mavs felt they had to make to get better. Dallas made this move with their team in mind, not just the Spurs. Sorry Spurs fans that you're not the complete center of the basketball universe. There were other considerations at play. We'll see what happens in May.

[Findog]

Nah, the Mavs are built for the regular season, especially now.

And here I thought they got Kidd because their late-game offensive execution was terrible against Miami and Golden State. They just want to win more regular season games and nothing more.



I suppose I have to be afraid of Jason Kidd because Randy Galloway says Devin Harris is shit,

:sleep


or because you try to act like Magliore is going to step right in and do everything Diop did.

I guess you should read my posts first. I said JM has a different skillset and won't do the same things that Diop did. Diop is a better shotblocker, but Magloire is just as good a rebounder, and unlike Diop, we won't be playing 4 on 5 on offense when he's in the game.


I've certainly got no problem telling you your team is well above average and should have little difficulty making the playoffs in the western conference, and could seriously contend for a spot in the conference semifinals

Good. Maybe we can meet up with San Antonio once again when we get there. Last I checked, we still have three Spurs killers on our roster. Two bad we traded away Oscar Robertson and Bill Russell to New Jersey, otherwise we might actually have a chance to beat San Antonio.

[2centsworth]

Sorry Spurs fans that you're not the complete center of the basketball universe. There were other considerations at play. We'll see what happens in May.
That's the first time a Mavs fan has been able to say that in forever.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Didn't Duncan average 32 and 15 in that playoff series with Bill Russell (Diop) on him? Duncan being "shut down" isn't why you lost that series.

I didn't say anything about the series. What I know and what I said is that Diop always used to do a good job on Duncan and slow him down, Magloire will be unable to do any such thing. Isn't this thread entitled "new Duncan stopper"?

[endrity]

let's not take this too far. Dirk deserves plenty of blame. He wasn't able to get the ball in his comfort zone, so he lost all aggressiveness. He let JET throw up bricks all game long. He never took charge.

Dirk's playoff failures outweight his playoff success, and only the biggest of Mavs homers can attempt to dispute that.

I'll have to disagree with you, and I am not the only fan to do this. I know how it was painted in the national media, but to me Avery deserves all of the blame for that loss, with JET and Stack getting what's left.

Dirk was not getting the ball in his spots, cause the guards could not make one simple entry pass. Dirk has to post up SJax from 20 feet away with 10 seconds left. No one can do that. Any time he was swarmed the other guys had no idea what to do. Jet kept missing shot after shot.

As Findog said, we won the high scoring games. AJ's idea that we had to slow down our game was what killed us. The warriors were going to run, no matter what. We should have striked them right back, when their D wasn't set. But we did not. That decision, and the one to go small in game 1, will remain with him until he can prove he can coach a team to the rings.

[endrity]

I didn't say anything about the series. What I know and what I said is that Diop always used to do a good job on Duncan and slow him down, Magloire will be unable to do any such thing. Isn't this thread entitled "new Duncan stopper"?

Yes it is, by a spurs fan. No Mavs fan ever said anything to that effect.

[Findog]

I didn't say anything about the series. What I know and what I said is that Diop always used to do a good job on Duncan and slow him down, Magloire will be unable to do any such thing. Isn't this thread entitled "new Duncan stopper"?

Who the hell thinks in all seriousness that Jamaal Magloire is going to be able to do that? Mavs need another big to deal with all of the teams they might face in the playoffs. It's not all about you.

[td4mvp21]

Who on our team guarded Dirk in 03-04, and 04-05? It seems like he never really became a noticeable mismatch for us until 05-06.

[mavsfan1000]

Who on our team guarded Dirk in 03-04, and 04-05? It seems like he never really became a noticeable mismatch for us until 05-06.
Malik Rose I think.

[Findog]

The Warriors don't practice good shot selection. Make or Miss, they're going to run and jack up threes with 20 seconds left on the shot clock before the defense is set. Over the course of 48 minutes, a team like Dallas is going to practice better shot selection than a team like the Warriors. The best thing to do is have Dirk get the ball on the wing and take a two-step pull-up jumper, not set up on the low blocks and try to post up a smaller defender. He has weak post-up moves, he's at his best playing like a two in a four's body, which is what he is. When he posts up, it allows him to get swarmed by double teams.

[mavsfan1000]

Diop is a complete non-entity on offense. Magloire is not. It isn't all about the Spurs. What good does it do to be a "Spurs killer" if you can't advance far enough into the playoffs to face them? I thought we traded DeSagana Diop to New Jersey, not Bill Russell. Last I checked, Tim Duncan threw 32 and 15 on us in that playoff series. Nobody is going to stop him, but Spurs fans are lying if they think Magloire is going to be significantly worse racking up 6 fouls in 15 minutes of burn.
Dallas doesn't need points out of their center. What they need is a shotblocker that can rebound and possibly defend post players though that isn't his best part of his game. Diop is the perfect center for what Dallas needs to cover up Dirk and Bass's defensive liabilities. I was hoping for Justin Williams as I think he has a good upside and he can shotblock.

[endrity]

Who on our team guarded Dirk in 03-04, and 04-05? It seems like he never really became a noticeable mismatch for us until 05-06.

I think I missed our playoff battles in those years. Can you tell me what happened?

All kidding aside, Dirk became a much bigger mismatch when he started to work on his post game. And while people might not think it has improved because of the GS series (not his fault, read above) he was phenomenal against Bowen and Marion in beating them down low. And I think this year his post game has become really good. I have seen him post up legitimate big men this year. And clearely no big, lumbering power player has ever had a chance against him.

[DubMcDub]

Damn. The Mavs acquired a Duncan stopper just as the Spurs let go of their "Dirk stopper" When it rains it pours.

Funny stuff.

[mavsfan1000]

Funny stuff.
We let go of the Parker stopper though. lol

[DubMcDub]

We let go of the Parker stopper though. lol

Yeah, this whole thing is getting confusing. Now we have Dirk going off for 60 a game, Parker going off for 50, and Duncan failing to score because of Magloire.

The question is, who is going to be our Kurt Thomas stopper?

[endrity]

Yeah, this whole thing is getting confusing. Now we have Dirk going off for 60 a game, Parker going off for 50, and Duncan failing to score because of Magloire.

The question is, who is going to be our Kurt Thomas stopper?

Don't you know that is why we brough Malik Allen here. And with Barry possibly gone, how do you stop George from getting a tripple double.

[td4mvp21]

I think I missed our playoff battles in those years. Can you tell me what happened?

All kidding aside, Dirk became a much bigger mismatch when he started to work on his post game. And while people might not think it has improved because of the GS series (not his fault, read above) he was phenomenal against Bowen and Marion in beating them down low. And I think this year his post game has become really good. I have seen him post up legitimate big men this year. And clearely no big, lumbering power player has ever had a chance against him.

:lol I was talking regular season, I checked the boxscores and Dirk never seemed to bother us that much.

[GSH]

Magloire would make a great stopper.... for a bottle of Imodium.

[endrity]

:lol I was talking regular season, I checked the boxscores and Dirk never seemed to bother us that much.

Yet, w/out checking the boxscores, I remember a pretty effective Dirk againt the Spurs in the 03 WCF before he got hurt. Reg season games, are what they are. Duncan scores 16 sometimes against us in the reg season, but I know what the beast will do once the playoffs roll around.

[td4mvp21]

Yet, w/out checking the boxscores, I remember a pretty effective Dirk againt the Spurs in the 03 WCF before he got hurt. Reg season games, are what they are. Duncan scores 16 sometimes against us in the reg season, but I know what the beast will do once the playoffs roll around.

True, but there were no playoff matchups those years so that's all I had to go by.

I barely remember the 2003 series, just bits and pieces of it. Especially not who guarded who :lol

[barbacoataco]

I coull be wrong, but I think the Mavs screwed themselves in the Kidd trade. The West has too many bigs (Duncan, Gasol-Bynum, Shaq-Amare) for the Mavs. To make it to the Finals, the Mavs would almost surely have to beat at least two of those teams.

[ludda]

Mavs never had (pre Kidd) and still don't have any dominant bigs. Nothing new there.

Adding Magloire is at worst giving them 6 fouls and sparing Erica from playing 40 min.

[DubMcDub]

True, but there were no playoff matchups those years so that's all I had to go by.

I barely remember the 2003 series, just bits and pieces of it. Especially not who guarded who :lol

I remember 3 things: 1) Mavs hitting 49/50 FT's in Game 1. 2) Dirk being injured (I think we had a good chance to win the thing with him) and 3) Steve Kerr crushing my hopes in Game 6.

[mavsfan1000]

Updated News:
http://dallas-mavs.com/vb/showpost.php?p=817480&postcount=325

[Findog]

I'm going to go with a picture of Jamaal Magloire and the words "Duncan stopper" once sigs get turned back on.

[Findog]

Dallas doesn't need points out of their center.

Uh, yes they do. Points in the paint are a valuable commodity, especially in the playoffs.

[Findog]

I agree with this.. they are a mess on and off the court.

Great take Spurs fan :toast

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-080226

Our chemistry is gone and these guys hate playing with Kidd.


I don't know how long Cuban will be able to sustain the level of spending without winning anything.


He's a billionaire that doesn't mind paying the luxury tax. Unless you're in his will, the fuck do you care?

[mavsfan1000]

Uh, yes they do. Points in the paint are a valuable commodity, especially in the playoffs.
Not as valuable as stopping the onslaught of great big men and slashers around the basket. The most important thing for a big man is defense. Especially help defense. Without that your team is in trouble. See Mavs of 03-04 and Suns of the last few years. They lacked a good defender at center and makes everyone elses job that much more dificult.

[debo]

Magloire was brought in as 6 extra fouls, that's it. Im obviously biased but still i like the spurs chances because we have Tim, Manu, and Parker. im sure some people will disagree but we can argue about that more IF we meet in the playoffs.

[Findog]

I'd rank the West this way:

1) San Antonio
2) LA Lakers
3) Dallas
4) New Orleans
5) Phoenix
6) Utah
7) Golden State
8) Denver
9) Houston

I would've put Houston at #7 before Yao's injury.

[Findog]

Dallas doesn't need points out of their center. What they need is a shotblocker that can rebound and possibly defend post players though that isn't his best part of his game. Diop is the perfect center for what Dallas needs to cover up Dirk and Bass's defensive liabilities. I was hoping for Justin Williams as I think he has a good upside and he can shotblock.

A young guy like Justin Williams isn't going to come in here 55 games into the season and get 10-15 mpg in the playoffs. Right or wrong, Avery is not going to trust a guy like that without having gone through training camp first. A vet like Magloire will get those minutes.

And yes, Dallas absolutely needs low-post scoring wherever it can get it. An inability to pound the Warriors inside cost us dearly last year.

[MI21]

Bowen and Malik used to guard Dirk. Bowen was free to hassle Dirk for the minutes Malik wasn't on because Josh Howard wasn't around or as good back then, and Ginobili/whoever could guard Finley because he was just a shooter you had to get a hand up on.

Malik always used to do a stellar job on Dirk. Had the strength so Dirk couldn't post him up, and had quick enough feet and lateral movement to force Dirk to be a jumpshooter and not much else. Could also rebound with Dirk.

[mavsfan1000]

A young guy like Justin Williams isn't going to come in here 55 games into the season and get 10-15 mpg in the playoffs. Right or wrong, Avery is not going to trust a guy like that without having gone through training camp first. A vet like Magloire will get those minutes.

And yes, Dallas absolutely needs low-post scoring wherever it can get it. An inability to pound the Warriors inside cost us dearly last year.
Yeah Magloire is really slow though so don't know if which way is a bigger mismatch. That is if he has to guard Al Harrington and Dirk on Stephen Jackson. GS though is going bigger now but I'm sure they will put that small lineup again if we face them. :pctoss

[endrity]

Yeah Magloire is really slow though so don't know if which way is a bigger mismatch. That is if he has to guard Al Harrington and Dirk on Stephen Jackson. GS though is going bigger now but I'm sure they will put that small lineup again if we face them. :pctoss

If we face GS again, Bass and Kidd will be the main differences. Bass is exactly the kind of guy to use against small lineup gimmicks. And there is no one in the league who is better at taking Baron off his game than Kidd. Always has been. And with Kidd here there will be no more Dirk isolations. We are set against small ball. We'll see how we do against big teams.

[hsxvvd]

Magloire is to Duncan stopper
as
Earl Boykins is to Parker stopper

[LEONARD]

btw, it was 3 seasons ago and his all-star appearances were 5-6 seasons ago. I wasn't that far off after all.

I stated facts...maybe you should look them up??

He was an all-star ONCE in 03-04, which was 4 seasons ago.

9/9 was 05-06, which I think is 2 seasons ago...but I'm no math whiz.

Not wasting anymore time on this...

[K-State Spur]

I'd love to know the Spurs genius plan for defending fadeaway 3's with 20 seconds on the shot clock.

don't give them the dunks and lay-ups that keep the game close enough that the fade-away 3s matter...

[Bruno]

I guess that some Spurs would have called Magloire a good pickup if Spurs had sign him.
Mavs have signed him, he is now the biggest scrub in the NBA.

Magloire is the best Mavs could have hope given their constraints. He has lost a lot of speed/athleticism after his injury but he has been a solid player for 2 years after it. To me, he is a downgrade from Diop but he could help Mavs especially if the main reason behind his bad season with Nets was a bad fit with them.

[stevenger]

Jamaal Magloire will stp Tim Duncan:):):):) Jamaal Magloire ie Vin Baker:) He cant stop anybody:)

[K-State Spur]

I guess that some Spurs would have called Magloire a good pickup if Spurs had sign him.

and they would have been wrong. (unless this was 2003)

[SenorSpur]

Magloire is a big body to throw at opposing Western Conference big men. He's never been a solid defender, but he's always been decent offensively. Haven't seen him much since he left New Orleans, but I don't expect the Mavs will be hurt by him in the playoffs. One thing is certain, Erick Dampier WILL be in foul trouble - regardless of the opponent - count on it.

[Findog]

Magloire is a big body to throw at opposing Western Conference big men. He's never been a solid defender, but he's always been decent offensively. Haven't seen him much since he left New Orleans, but I don't expect the Mavs will be hurt by him in the playoffs. One thing is certain, Erick Dampier WILL be in foul trouble - regardless of the opponent - count on it.

And that's exactly why we signed him - because Dampier will probably not be able to play more than 30 minutes a game.

[E20]

In the defense of Mav fans, LMAO, no Mav fan said he was a Duncan stopper. Mav fans have been saying something totally different.

[sribb43]

unbelievable, reading this thread and hearing the so called experts, they make Diop out to be this dominate big man who scored 20 and 15... he was a backup center that at times provided energy and defense. He was terribly inconsistent. yes, he helped the mavs but more often than not he was ineffective. Mavs losing Diop is like the spurs losing Elson....the loss is lessened with the acquistion of Magloire. People also act like Mags will be playing 20+ min, he would be lucky to max out at 15.

[loveforthegame]

Nobody is a Duncan stopper but what better options were available to the Mavs than Magloire? The West has so many big men and the Mavs only had 1 center. He'll be 6 fouls and a big body to throw out there. If he gives you some easy baskets, grabs some rebounds, and at least plays some defense he'll be fine for the Mavs.

[LEONARD]

In the defense of Mav fans, LMAO, no Mav fan said he was a Duncan stopper. Mav fans have been saying something totally different.

Exactly...but what else is new around here...Spurs fans do this $hit all the time... :lol

[td4mvp21]

Exactly...but what else is new around here...Spurs fans do this $hit all the time... :lol

I just think it's funny that what, 3 threads yesterday turned into Mavs vs. Spurs threads.

[Findog]

Tell you the truth theyd be better off resigning Willis today.

Hmm, 29 year old on an active roster all year long vs a dude collecting social security. Great take :toast

[Obstructed_View]

The Warriors don't practice good shot selection. Make or Miss, they're going to run and jack up threes with 20 seconds left on the shot clock before the defense is set. Over the course of 48 minutes, a team like Dallas is going to practice better shot selection than a team like the Warriors. The best thing to do is have Dirk get the ball on the wing and take a two-step pull-up jumper, not set up on the low blocks and try to post up a smaller defender. He has weak post-up moves, he's at his best playing like a two in a four's body, which is what he is. When he posts up, it allows him to get swarmed by double teams.
I'm still wondering what series you guys were watching. The Warriors shoot threes on the break when open, which is part of Nellie's offiense (watch Steve Nash on a break to this day). That said, they didn't shoot an outstanding percentage until the last two games of the series, one of which they lost. The Warriors got lots of breaks because they got lots of steals and blocks. The Mavericks took a lot of jumpers and missed them and Golden State's shooters were open many times because of the damage they did inside. If the Mavericks had taken better shots, they would have won the series. Instead they tried to play the Warriors' game at their pace and lost. The Mavs shot an outstanding percentage in '06 when they beat the Spurs because they hit their jumpers, but the jumpers weren't the first shot, they were set up by the damage they were able to do at the rim and in the paint. That was work they just didn't do against Golden State.

It's really too bad that the resolve of the fans who were bragging about the "new look" defensive-minded Mavericks just a year ago has devolved back into "we need to shoot more jumpers", "we need to run more" and "we need to worry more about outscoring our opponent than playing defense" after just one terrible playoff series. Hopefully the team is smarter, but the Kidd trade makes me think that's not the case.

[Mr. Body]

Are there archives for those Mavs-Warriors games? I'd love to see them again.

[Obstructed_View]

Are there archives for those Mavs-Warriors games? I'd love to see them again.
I still have game 6 on my PVR. I re-watched it last night to see if there were any fall-away three pointers like the Mavs fans keep asserting. Stackhouse hit five of them in the first quarter to keep the game close.

[td4mvp21]

I still have game 6 on my PVR. I re-watched it last night to see if there were any fall-away three pointers like the Mavs fans keep asserting. Stackhouse hit five of them in the first quarter to keep the game close.

:lol

[Findog]

I'm still wondering what series you guys were watching. The Warriors shoot threes on the break when open, which is part of Nellie's offiense (watch Steve Nash on a break to this day). That said, they didn't shoot an outstanding percentage until the last two games of the series, one of which they lost. The Warriors got lots of breaks because they got lots of steals and blocks.

Golden State is going to run all game long regardless of what the other team does, but if the opponent slows the game down then the Warriors can set up all the funky zones and traps that Nellie has devised. The Warriors are active and aggressive on defense when they get a chance to set up. When they force missed shots or turnovers then they are off to the races. If you push the ball at them and try to score before they can organize their defense, then you can score a lot of easy baskets and also set up good offensive rebounding opportunities if the initial shot is missed.


The Mavericks took a lot of jumpers and missed them and Golden State's shooters were open many times because of the damage they did inside.

Honestly, the Mavs had the most success when they guarded the 3-point line and dared the Warriors to try and beat them inside. Biedrins is their only classic low-post inside finisher.


If the Mavericks had taken better shots, they would have won the series. Instead they tried to play the Warriors' game at their pace and lost.

Nowitzki is a face up shooter, so it makes no sense to slow the game down and have him grind it out in the post with defenders trapping him as the shot clock winds down. When you push the ball up the court, it's best to have Nowitzki spot up and then the guards can score layups. If the defense collapses to stop their drives then Nowitzki can drain open jumpers/three pointers all night long.


It's really too bad that the resolve of the fans who were bragging about the "new look" defensive-minded Mavericks just a year ago has devolved back into "we need to shoot more jumpers", "we need to run more" and "we need to worry more about outscoring our opponent than playing defense" after just one terrible playoff series. Hopefully the team is smarter, but the Kidd trade makes me think that's not the case

The Mavs didn't lose to the Warriors because of shitty defense, they lost because they went into Nellie's Briar Patch of trying to slow the game down and take advantage of size "mismatches." The two games they won were high-scoring games, and the four they lost is when they struggled to score, because they fell into Golden State's trap of setting up their half-court offense. Harris and Terry are great pushing the ball with their speed and creating easy-basket opportunities in the open court. What they aren't good at is running a half-court offense because they telegraph their passes and can't get the ball to Dirk in the right spots. Dirk deserves the most blame for that series loss, but he had virtually no help from his coaches or his teammates either. People hammer on Avery for going small in Game One. That's part of the problem, but what really killed them was going slow.

It's no surprise that they beat the Warriors twice this year in high-scoring games where they pushed the ball. I think it was easy enough for Avery to understand that you're never going to beat the Spurs in a half-court game, so you have to push the ball and play smallballl and use Terry and Harris' speed to your advantage. For whatever reason, the Dallas coaching staff was slow to understand that you need to mount the exact same attack against Golden State for different reasons. The Warriors only chance to get stops is to set up their zones and traps on defense, and on offense, over the course of 48 minutes, they will exhibit more questionable shot selection than a team like Dallas.

[z0sa]

Magliore had a nice showing against Timmy when the Spurs played in Portland. Basically, any Big that has extra long arms and a solid base gives Timmy trouble. A stopper? Not hardly. Extra degree of difficulty, yes. But....nothing Tim cannot figure out.

Generally, bigs who have long arms and a solid base play well against post players period. Whats the point?

There is no tim duncan stopper.

[DubMcDub]

I guess that some Spurs would have called Magloire a good pickup if Spurs had sign him.
Mavs have signed him, he is now the biggest scrub in the NBA.

Magloire is the best Mavs could have hope given their constraints. He has lost a lot of speed/athleticism after his injury but he has been a solid player for 2 years after it. To me, he is a downgrade from Diop but he could help Mavs especially if the main reason behind his bad season with Nets was a bad fit with them.

Solid post. Most everything on here from Spurs fans these days (well, save a select few) is nothing but hypocrisy. Props for keeping it real.

Although, I think you're wrong about Magloire being a downgrade from Diop. He's especially not a downgrade considering that Avery wasn't even playing Diop.

[DubMcDub]

Exactly...but what else is new around here...Spurs fans do this $hit all the time... :lol

Spurs fans also like to say a Mav player sucks until he's traded, at which point he becomes Michael Jordan reincarnate.

[Findog]

Spurs fans also like to say a Mav player sucks until he's traded, at which point he becomes Michael Jordan reincarnate.

As long as he wears the blue and green, Dirk is a soft choker. If he ever gets traded to the East, then he becomes the "Ultimate Matchup Nightmare."

[td4mvp21]

Spurs fans also like to say a Mav player sucks until he's traded, at which point he becomes Michael Jordan reincarnate.

I don't get why all mavsfans are saying we think Diop and Harris are NBA superstars :wtf We said they were good AGAINST US. AGAINST THE SPURS. Not how they performed against all other teams on a nightly, weekly, monthly basis. How they performed against us. And both of those guy gave us trouble. Parker said the exact same thing. We are happy to see them go. Maybe nothing changed, maybe something changed. No one knows really. Our statements have the same validity as any mavfans' statements because no one has seen the Spurs play the Mavs since the trade.

[Budkin]

unbelievable, reading this thread and hearing the so called experts, they make Diop out to be this dominate big man who scored 20 and 15... he was a backup center that at times provided energy and defense. He was terribly inconsistent. yes, he helped the mavs but more often than not he was ineffective. Mavs losing Diop is like the spurs losing Elson....the loss is lessened with the acquistion of Magloire. People also act like Mags will be playing 20+ min, he would be lucky to max out at 15.

Diop was an awesome defender against Timmy... think of that Game 7 overtime that you guys won. I think Diop made all the difference.

[duncan228]

Diop was an awesome defender against Timmy... think of that Game 7 overtime that you guys won. I think Diop made all the difference.

Diop made a difference because Duncan was exhausted and Diop was fresh.
Dampier wore Duncan down during that game, Diop got the glory work.

[JamalMagloireDynasty]

Duncan is fucked

[Findog]

Duncan is fucked

You're just being the Duncan stopper® you're supposed to be. No surprises there.

[FromWayDowntown]

Duncan is fucked

Man -- that was not predictable at all.

I'm surprised, though, that Duncan isn't "fluked" or at least "a fluke."

[Findog]

Diop made a difference because Duncan was exhausted and Diop was fresh.
Dampier wore Duncan down during that game, Diop got the glory work.

duncan228 FTW.

[Findog]

Man -- that was not predictable at all.

You know what else isn't predictable? JM is going to shut Timmy down!

[duncan228]

duncan228 FTW.

:lol

You and I have had this Diop conversation already.
A couple of times I think.

[Findog]

Generally, bigs who have long arms and a solid base play well against post players period. Whats the point?

There is no tim duncan stopper.

Oh yes there is. His name is Jamaal Magloire.

[m33p0]

Oh yes there is. His name is Jamaal Magloire.

the church of jamaal in dallas has been founded on this day by findog.

[Findog]

the church of jamaal in dallas has been founded on this day by findog.


Something tells me we'll all be agnostics when the season is over.

[FromWayDowntown]

Oh yes there is. His name is Jamaal Magloire.

Very well played!

[genomefreak13]

Dallas wants to have the Js again. Jason, Jamal, Jason, Jerry

You can add Josh, Juwan in the mix, Wall you have the J team!